And they ruin the forests, and they ran the mills into the ground, and they, you know, in this this, so, so as I dug into this and found it in different parts of the state, and different versions of it, it became really clear to me that, that people who have lived through the experience of two different phases of American capitalism, understood it that way. And they did it in a folk way. So it was an academic, that's why use the adjective folk. But they understood that, you know, they had this industrial competence. And they had the particular commitment of the employers to the employees and communities, and how that evaporated, and what was it replaced by it was replaced by conflict. And as I mentioned, the beginning the interview in the 80s, these companies started to ask for really draconian cutbacks, it was part of, you know, we want raise your profit rates and your share price. So you have to squeeze labor in this is not any other industry. This is like, you know, this intricate production process intricate set of skills, a lot of independence and respect by managers for the senior workers and all of that. And that was being, you know, pushed aside. And in some cases, in the case, International Paper, this big strike that happened in j in 1987 1988, they purposely pushed the workers into striking so they could permanently replace them with non union workers. So you know, the way that they were able to tell the story about how this all happened, really lined up with an academic perspective on these two phases of American capitalism. And you know, and they were basically, you know, I think one of the things that I say, in a number of places in the book is that one of the things that I think we're talking about nationally in this country right now is the tension between the marketplace in a moral community, in a marketplace idea of capitalism, that it's all about transactions, it's all about individual businesses, consumers and workers, just, you know, making, you know, market exchanges on a daily basis. And, you know, kind of an Adam Smith's story of everybody looks after their sole self interest, and good things come out of that, and then a moral perspective. And I think one of the things that the whole political economy really speaks to, is that if you're the fifth generation worker in a particular community, particular mill with pride in what you do, and a long legacy with a particular institution, that institution is not a bundle of decomposable assets to use the language of some of the economists who support financialization, it's a living thing with people and commitments and traditions in them. And I think that, you know, the debate in the country over the last 30 or 40 years has been, are we a marketplace society? Or we are we a moral society with markets as part of it. And they were siding with that we're a moral community, where with markets as part of it, and so markets should be embedded in moral practices and moral relationships. And if you talk to somebody, I have a friend from college who has been a senior r&d Vice President, Silicon Valley over the last 30 years, and I talked to him, it's all cutthroat. You know, it's all you know, we can't put capital into something that doesn't make make the average rate of profit because your waist, you know, that's going to be destroyed by the marketplace. And the fact that matter is that there are other countries where those financial rules don't exist as five national rules didn't exist before 1980 in the country, and they don't really exist in the same way, the same ruthless way in countries like Japan or Germany, or Sweden, or Denmark. So. So with all of that in mind, I really think that, you know, there's a legitimacy to the place of moral commitments in our economy. That is now the conversation we're having about inequality, you know, which is that if we have a country that has doubled its GDP per capita in the last 30 or 40 years and we have more poor people in a third of the country. Working, you know, starvation or non livable wages. And you just have to pick up good journalism from the New York Times or something to see all this stuff going on. What are we doing? You know, why do people struggle with massive amount of debt that they can never get out from under because they went to college, and they didn't quite finish, but they had 40 or $50,000 in debt. And then they can only get $12 an hour Johnson, they're just screwed for the rest of their life, housing insecurity. So there's just, you know, certainly health, health, healthcare insecurity. So there's all these different things that we see in capitalism. Right now, at the heart of it, we have this financial class, that I mean, if you know much about what they're doing, besides running companies in the ground, and taking good paying employment systems and replace them with, you know, minimum wage, precarious employment systems end spending 100%, or more of their profits on propping up share prices, which is what's going on last 15 years or so, I mean, like, there's there's a looting going on over existing corporations at the top that most people don't understand. And so what I'm really struck by is that when this started to wash over the country, and it came to me, and it hit these particular workers in this industry, they saw something upfront, and they had some really human insight about what was wrong with it. And so I connect what they're saying to what we're facing right now. And the struggle that we see going on in the country, you know, in the halls of Washington and October, September, October 2021. It's sort of like, Are we going to bend some of this wealth towards, you know, creating a moral economic system? Because we don't have it right now. And it's gotten worse over the last couple of decades?