feel discouraged. Oh, well, pushing that aside. No, I'm in it, and it sucks. So it's not that you when we talk about mindset stuff, right? Or at least the way that I approach it, I don't know, maybe people, maybe other people do this stuff differently. But the way that I approach it is, well, I know a lot of people do it differently. But the way that I approach it is you can feel a feeling. And you can also be aware of what's going on, and you don't need to stop yourself from feeling that way. And I also don't buy into the idea that if you are feeling discouraged, you are like necessarily going to show up to your business in a way that is, you know, sabotage, or, or, or that you are like sending out some like energetic signal that like, you know, you're and that's going to make your business not grow. If we believe that and, and I am open to like, all kinds of like, whatever works for you works for you, right like I am, whatever you however you operate in terms of like, your belief systems around that stuff is great. But what I want to point out that is that if we are operating according to a belief system that says that we can't feel the very natural feelings that happen when you're in a learning process, I think that's going to work against us more than it's going to help us in a situation like business. And I see this happen a lot. I see this happen a lot, where people really think that if they are in quote unquote, alignment, they're never going to feel this way. And so when they feel that way, they think you're doing something wrong. And that's not true. This is a thing that I don't know can be avoided. And I think that people who know how the learning process works will tell you learning and getting better at something comes through struggle. Carol Dweck, in her work on growth mindset, which I have talked about a whole bunch on the podcast talks about this as well, the way that your brain works is you try to do something, you're not good at it, you mess it up, you fail, you learn some things from it, you struggle through it, it's probably not fun. And then eventually you improve and you improve by going through that struggle. Now what you can do, however, is you can start to reform your relationship with this where you start to learn, oh, okay, when I'm challenged in this way, it actually means that I'm getting better at a thing. And that can start to shift the way that you the way that you experience this, it might not feel quite as much like discouragement, so much is just being challenged. And that's great. And you do that through over time just being coming aware of, oh, this is a natural part of the process. This is expected. This is how I get better at things, right. Being in me visualization and kind of planning phase is really fun, and like full of possibility. And being in love doing and learning phase is really challenging. It exposes your lack of experience to you, which oftentimes doesn't feel good, especially if you're like a perfectionist. And like, you know, you were always like the straight A student. And it can be really, really discouraging. But my challenge to you is to just notice when you're feeling that discouragement and get curious about it, and see if what you're experiencing is really just that you're feeling challenged or like you're noticing that you're not as good as the thing is that you thought that you were you're noticing that you lack experience with a thing. And to just remind yourself that that's a natural part of the process. Now, there's another thing that I want to draw your attention to, there's a pretty well documented process that startup business owners go through. And I actually don't think that it is like I don't know, when people talk about startups, I think of like, of, you know, a very specific type of business. But I actually think that it happens with pretty much all business owners in some way or another and some People call this Well, some people call this this section of or this portion of the process where you're feeling really discouraged. The trough of despair or the trough of sorrow. There's multiple people who have talked about this, you can look it up. Basically, if you Google that, you're gonna find a bunch of illustrations of people showing this very natural process that people go through where basically, you kind of start off pretty neutral. And then you have this like big burst of like enthusiasm and excitement. And then kind of like the reality of what you're doing starts to set in, and then you dip and you end up in this long period of experimenting, and pivoting and learning and figuring things out. And before you get to a point where things start to work, which by the way, when things start working, it usually like works, and then it doesn't work. And then it works and then doesn't work, you get intermittent results for a while, before you reach that point where you kind of have things, you've gotten some traction, and then things start on this kind of more steady incline, before you get to the point where things start to work. And you can hit that steady incline, you go through a period of I mean, it's called the trough of sorrow, it's not fun. And I, you know, in the work that I do, like, I think that it's so common in the business development world for people to be like, I figured out how to do this, so that you don't have to, and, you know, I help business owners like skip this whole, I just don't, I just don't buy it that you can do that. I think that everybody has some period of shit, this isn't really working the way that I thought that it was gonna work. Like. And I think honestly, when we look at the number of businesses, the number of small businesses that go out of business, like early on, you know, they attribute that to like, there wasn't product market fit, there wasn't a like solid plan, there wasn't, you know, the price was too high, blah, blah, blah, and, maybe, but that's all self reported data. And what I actually think, is that a lot of people were not prepared for the fact that they were going to go through that long period of feeling discouraged before things started to work. And I'm not saying that, like, you have to be miserable to be a business owner. But what I am saying is, you do have to be willing to tolerate some amount of discouragement and things not feeling super dreamy all the time. Because if you can't, you're not going to get to the you're not going to be able to go through that learning process. And that process of experimentation, where you're actually going to get the traction, and then things are going to start to improve. So if you have been in this space for a long time. And I remember actually hearing someone talk about this, like very early on in my business and being like, whoa, like, thank you for talking about this. Because if you've been in this space for a long time, then chances are, you are in that phase of experimentation and learning. And that's the phase that's going to pay off the most. But if you quit, because you're not aware of the fact that that is normal, then you're not going to get to the point where you start to get that traction, right. And what you can do is just start to remind yourself of the fact that this is part of the process, and you can also start to take good care of yourself. Instead of trying to rush it instead of trying to run yourself into the ground thinking that you should be able to skip this thinking that you shouldn't be feeling this way. You can kind of settle in a little bit and be like, okay, like my, for me, my biggest priority for my clients. And for you listening to this podcast, I want you protecting your creative energy, when you're in that place. I want you doing whatever you need to do to protect your creative energy because experimentation requires creative energy. And if you're tired, and if you are like nearing burnout, you are going to have very little tolerance for creative experimentation or making clear headed decisions when you're in this place. Because you're just going to be reacting to the emotion of it being hard and feeling discouraged. Now when I talk about the process of going from you know, feeling like you need to get everything right into getting comfortable breaking the rules and then eventually having a business that's really like shifting things for people and really impactful for folks. I talk about going from seeking Savior into fallout in the agency seeking Savior being like I have if I do all the right things, then it's going to get me where I want to go and everything's going to be fixed and Wonderful. And so I have to like, you know, create all the lists of all things that I need to do and check all the boxes fall out is when you're like, that's not working. And I've tried it enough times, but it's not working. And so fuck it, right. And then agency is when your trust that you once had in the right way of doing things starts to shift to self trust. And that's where you're able to actually harness that creative energy to experiment in a way that is really yours rather than holding yourself to somebody else's standard, or replicating the things that other people are doing, or thinking that you need to do all the things exactly right, the way that you were told by whoever, right. And so what I will highlight is also in that process, when you reach Fallout, it is discouraging.