Episode_105_-_Complete

Vinny Welsby50min

Speaker 1

00:00

You're listening to the face value podcast episode 105 I rolling misconceptions about fat positivity let's do it. I'm Victoria Welsby TEDx speaker, Best Selling Author and fat activist. I have transformed my life from hating my body with desperately low self esteem to being a courageous and confident fifth party who loves every inch of this jelly. society teaches us living in a fat body is bad. But what if we spent less time, money and energy on the pursuit of thinness and instead focused on the things that actually matter? Like if pineapple on pizza should be outlawed? Or if the mullet was the greatest haircut of the 20th century? So how do you stop a negative beliefs about your fat body controlling your life? It's the first fatty podcast let's begin

Speaker 1

01:18

they rat bastards. Hello phase fatties. Welcome to the pod cost. Thanks for tuning in. Or if you all from North America, thanks for tuning in. Cuz you say like tune? Yeah, I guess we'll I guess the one he has a day to night. Oh, this video? Yeah, the date tonight. It's my first day in my first date since coming back to Vancouver in the in the in the January and it's what is it November now? Oh, 811 11 months? Actually, you know what, because I've been very willy nilly about this whole dating thing. And I bought Okay, Cupid premium. Yeah. And I thought you know what premium I got, I'm gonna be like VIP, I can be able to do everything. It's so fucking expensive. Okay, so it's like 160 us, it was like, whatever it was, it was 180 Canadian room for six months, which, you know, I got I get a few digs out of that, you know, some, you know, some sex Allah, maybe a partner, you know, it was worth it, right? But then I was like, Oh, I can't wait to use all these premium features. But if you buy premium, all you get from it is being able to look at who likes you. Nothing else. Like there's this boost thing where you can like boost your profile, or you can read receipt, or you can. Like there's so many different things. It was like things popping out. Like do you want to do this? And then I was like, oh, yeah, I'll turn on Read Receipt. Oh, yeah, I'll tell boosts and it's like boost. Boost was like, for 24 hours. $80. Oh, it's like, the cheek of it. It gives me a premium here. I've paid you my $180 Give me the shit. But no. So anyway, I've got a date a virtual date. I've decided I wanted to do a virtual date. You know what I was like, You know what hasn't been? It hasn't be It's been only a couple of years since I've been out today. And so I'm going to ease myself in. You remember, I talked about how you need to take all your toes in the water, don't jump into the deep end, because deep pan can be traumatizing. And so this is me tinkling my toe. So I've been chatting to some suitors over OKCupid for a couple of weeks, and maybe a week maybe. And now I suggested to someone Hey, do you want to do Walker's he suggested doing a in person thing. And I was like, Hey, do you want to just have a quick phone call? And then I said, Do you want to make it like a zoom call so we can you know, see each other and read our read on body language? And he said yes. I said to another guy who asked me out on a date, I said, Hey, let's do a quick call beforehand. And he was like, now I like it in person, which is fine, whatever. But you know, is there something about that? What that I was like, Listen, this is like, you know, building up pressed and it's not like I'm asking you to, I don't know, do something really weird. It's just having a chat on the phone. It's like, I don't want to I don't want to like pre Panini times. I feel like I don't want to commit to having to put on trousers and run a comb through my hair. If the person is a bozo, right? Like if I turn up and I'm like, Oh God, who is this? Why are you what so you know, and this this one guy. He wasn't That talkative and I think there was a language barrier. And so I was like, you know, whatever, it's a language barrier. So let's, you know, talk so that on the day, I know that we're able to, you know, get on with each other and all that type of stuff. And he was just like, No, and I was like, okay, whatever. cup of coffee bothered with that. But, yeah, so, another virtual date is 6:30am. But dinner before that was 315. Now, so three hours, I'm gonna be getting ready to have a date. I different a little bit nervous, but you know, it's fine. I can talk to anyone literally. And if he's a if he's a complete freak, or whatever, as when I say freak, I mean, like, being a creep, and slimy or whatever. I can just hang up, hang up the phone, hang up the zoom and see what I said aloes are. So yeah. Also another update. I don't have COVID we Yeah, so pleased about that. I was I was really convinced that I did. You know what? I was like, Oh, yeah. Is it getting worse? Oh, yeah. I think I do. But I don't. So that's that's good. That's good. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, I was gonna tell you last week, but I forgot. I forgot to say

Speaker 1

06:19

Be on the lookout for one of I'm not gonna name names. Okay, I'm looking. Although I do like a bit of a gossip, but I don't I like I like watching other people's drama and gossip and silently, you know, we're silently watching for hours of stories to see what the gossip is. But I don't want to start eating. I don't want to start anything. But I want you to be aware of who you're following in the fat positive body positive anti diet space. And make sure that those your favorites like the people that you're going to be given money to or whatever. Aren't secrets. right wingers, that is a one, it's just one person. There is one person who is one of the most famous people in this space, who has been sharing some chores, choice choice choice anti Vax messages, and then playing off being like, Oh, I'm joking. I'm joking. And then comparing being a mask of vaccine mandates to Nazis law was fucked up. So fucked up and then being like, chill, and then being doing a little bit of like, rape, denying Lu saying, oh, victims are lying and do and Laurie, Laurie, I think she's pretty much got away with it in any way on like, an, you know, went to her account. And here's a good way to find this stuff out. Because you know, if they Sarah share a meme here or there, and you're like, a lot of times, you don't know, because you look at the mean, and you're like, what's that mean? is a little bit is it a little bit, the message is kind of a little bit hidden. And so it can be interpreted maybe different ways. And I'm always like, I'll give someone a benefit of the doubt within, you know, within reason. And so a great way to, to see who what's going on with them is to see who they're following. Now, sometimes, you know, some people might follow certain people because they want to keep tabs on them. And they don't like them but but there was a definite pattern here. With this person. I went and I went and actually I text somebody in who's my friend another. She is a body image coach, and I text text her and because we were talking about this, and so I text her and I said, Oh my God, this person, I just looked at who they follow. And this is a text accounts include Flat Earth pro gun, American flag products, which is not wrong in itself, you know, American flag, whatever, it's just a flag, but a lot of times flags American flag, and the British flag denotes racism. Anyway, American flag products an info war star, so ever Wars is a right wing. common reason what is his name anyway? He's just he's just a fucking piece of shit. You have a host that pro Trump accounts anti vaccine, a diet account, anti trans anti immigrant, right wingers, it's fucked. And that's just the first 20 accounts I looked at. So go and go look at your favorite thin white anti diet accounts and and see if they're secretly hiding or not so secretly, they outed themselves right with the posts. But I find it so interesting I find it so interesting how how easily we were sucked into these types of things because this is someone who is pro science right? This is someone who is about fat liberation, body liberation, all that type of stuff and and somehow that's that's moved into being a flat earther a conspiracy theorist fucking Cuba known and anti trans anti immigrants anti vaccine pro Trump pro gun all that. And it's it's it's very surprising It's very surprising to me I find it fascinating how that happens and and and there's like a there's lots of what is it the the wellness to Q anon pipeline and and there's a what there's a very clear way that people kind of can start to get extreme and I don't even think like because if you think about extremeness in fact positivity

Speaker 1

11:22

I can't see how that would lead to right wing stuff. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. But anyway, just just keep your money keep your money keep your money to yourself if try not to be giving it to a secret secret for people who've got these wild ass views. So anyway, so I've been doing I've been doing lots of research on weight bias training. Oh. Oh, man, I am so mad about I've been doing this like look and having a looky loo at weight bias training, weight bias training, seeing what's out well, and so it makes me so fucking mad. It makes me so summer I was just just yesterday I was looking at okay, this is weight bias training that all of British Columbian invent, you know, Vancouver, BC, Canada, all of BC healthcare providers can go through its weight loss training. And I was like, oh, fuck, yeah. It's free. You can go through. I want to tell you the name of it, because it's just fucking awful. It's so awful. Oh, my God. Oh, where do I start? Okay. I actually I'm gonna I'm going to get a clip. inserted in in here.

Unknown Speaker

13:02

Well, what do we have here? He burned his hand on a stove. Did you warn him not to touch a hot stove? Of course I did. Well, I'm afraid we can't help him. Clearly he did this to himself.

Speaker 2

13:21

That's absurd, isn't it, that a doctor would compromise care for a patient because he did it to himself. But unfortunately, overweight and obese people are the victims of this kind of irrational weight prejudice almost every day.

Speaker 1

13:35

So basically, the whole idea is like, the whole idea of all the training is don't be don't be mean to fat people. They can't help it their fat. We have to say, we have to tell them to lose weight nicely. Don't be mean. Oh, and of course they use the Oh words and all over. They all of it is created by thin people. They have a fat presenter. I was like, Oh, I'm surprised that they have that presenter. But I was looking at the people who created it. And from the the come the heads of the people who created it. They're all thin white people, obviously. And it's all about how you know when you weigh your patients, maybe weigh them in a private area and tell them that they're a fat fucking loser and need to lose weight. Don't do it in public because we want to be nice about common girls we need to be and oh my God, and that was one it was like a teenage boy they did like roleplays recreations of roleplays whatever. teenage boy goes in and is like, you know what, I'm just really, really lethargic. There's something wrong you know? lalalalala and the doctor is like, okay, so you're clearly Oh, word. And so what do you eat? And how do you exercise? And the guy was like, oh, you know, I just, you know, whatever eat food and actually, I'm on the this sports team or whatever. And so they're all like, this is a great way to do it, because you're asking what they eat, and what they you vote, you tell them? Oh, you're clearly fat. And what do you eat fatty? How much do you exercise your loser? And then saying, Okay, we'll come back when you've exercised and eaten less, exercise more, eating less. And we'll, we'll, we'll check you out again. And so there was nothing that was it. It was like, This is how you do it. And it was like, hang on a minute, he said, he was like, There's something wrong with him. It was just, he was just like, Oh, he's fat. He's fat, therefore, that's why he's sick. He was like, their 16 year old, like, very slightly chubby kid, like, Oh, my God, it was so bad. It just makes me enraged that people go through this training, and they're just like, their view of fat people is made worse. Like, don't, don't, don't don't talk about weight around the factories, because they get really upset. Because, you know, they're just, it's just in their nature, right? That people are sensitive losers. And this and we got to help them try and lose weight. We just have to be nice about it. But they can't help it. Bless them. They've tried but on like, I'm, you know, we all know the answer is just to exercise more and, and eat less. And these fucking idiots can't do it. And so we have to be nice about it. Like, that was the whole thing. I was like, What the fuck, and so much of this weight weight. So much weight bias training, but overlooked out. Is is using your words, which you know, that's to begin with. And that's like that to me. Like that's the biggest clue. Are they using other words? Are they saying it's not the fat people's fault? Is that the whole thing? It's not the fat people's fault. And assuming that fat people are fat, because of what they eat and how they exercise, and then the the the whole thing is just being nicer. When you know, if your receptionist don't laugh in their face, laugh behind their backs. It's like, Oh, yeah. And I was reading this, this paper from from Rachel Fox, what is it called? Let me tell you, let me tell you what it's called. Working towards. Is this all right? On Yeah, working towards eradicating weight stigma by combating pathologizing. ologists by fellow Gs, Gs zation offer folks that pathologize ation, Jesus, a qualitative pilot study using direct contact and Narrative Medicine. So Rachel Fox was one of the people who wrote this, this paper, I'll link to it in the show notes, saying how

Speaker 1

18:14

the way that we educate on weight biases doesn't help it doesn't reduce weight bias. And so what the general the way that they've people have educated on on fat phobia before. They've got people to wear fat suits. And then go out in the in public for like an hour. And be like, Hey, do you feel more empathetic towards people because you wore a fat suit? And people are like, oh, yeah, fucking I looked meaning when I was I was disgusting. I was gross. Like when I was fat. So yeah, I've got like, I've got more empathy for fat people because they're gross. And, and telling people about saying to people, listen, people can't control their weight, that doesn't reduce stigma. And what Rachael Fox and company have have have shown is that they did this. They got fat people in, it was a it was only a small study, but it was interesting results. They got fat people to come in for five weeks. And then they got medical students to come into. And they discussed pieces of work actually, like a poem, some art pieces, made by fat people. An excerpt from one of Roxane Gay his book and an article as well. And so they, they got them to read that and then they got them to do a writing piece on a separate question, which is kind of like, what Tell me a time that you felt loved. And then they discussed it in a group and so they weren't talking about like, it wasn't, is different, right. It's different and, you know, what are the question? Just like her name a time that you've experienced fatphobia I've seen fatphobia and so medical students were like, oh, yeah, I saw it when this fat person experienced that because they're all straight size and and then the the fat people can say, oh actually experience and it grew actual empathy. And their weight bias at the end was reduced. And the fat participants got a really good sense of well being and happiness that they were able to connect and change the minds of these medical students. And I feel I you know, I just feel so hopeful about the the younger generation and as students learning moving into these professions, because there's so much more open, there's so much more open. And especially, you know, people who've been if you've been told a message for all of your life, and it's in your profession, and you've told hundreds 1000s countless people to lose weight, and the you know, weight, his death and all that type of stuff, to be able to turn that belief around is so fucking difficult, isn't it? Can you imagine? So I think you know, for people who've been practicing in the healthcare profession for longer, it's a lot harder. And so anyway, so that's, that was really cool to see. I'm really enjoying blah. So anyway, yeah. Let's talk about what we're here to talk about. God, this rambling introduction has been 2020 minutes. Sorry. It's interesting stuff I'm talking about is that shut up. Alright, so let's talk about can you be fat positive and also die. So first off, let me tell you what, you know, fat positive fat acceptances. Let me tell you this is a little quote from Wikipedia. So quick, the fat acceptance movement, also known as like pride, fat impairment, and fat activism is a social movement seeking to change anti fat buyers, and social attitudes by raising awareness about obstacle faced by fat persons. For the general public. Areas of contention include the aesthetic, legal and medical approaches to people whose bodies are fatter than the social norm. The modern fad exception, acceptance movement began in the late 1960s. Besides its political role, the fat acceptance movement also constitutes a subculture which acts as a social group for members. So just just a little, just a little definition for you there. And the so the history of acceptance goes back to 1967 When 500 people met in New York, New York, New York Central Park, to to protest against fat phobia. So quote, sociologist Charlotte Cooper has argued that the history or facts of the fat activist movement is best understood in waves similar to the feminist movement, with which she believes it is closely tied. So we keep that in mind about what fat acceptance is, it's basically

Speaker 1

23:10

saying, Hey, everybody, fat people or people, let's maybe not discriminate against fat people and fat people who have the same should have the same basic rights as straight size people, you know. And a lot of people here fat positivity, and they hear something else. So the first off is kind of eye rolling misconceptions about fat positivity, or body positivity or anything to do with this kind of area is, the first thing is that it's all about slagging off straight size people. So it's all about making fun of straight size people. It's all about straight size people. It is not about straight size people it is about fat variable and the way that society treats fat people. So a lot of I see a lot of people getting confused about this. And people who are well meaning sharing things like Real Women Have Curves or laughing at the fact that Donald Trump Donald Trump is fat, or only dogs like bones you know, like posts that are sharing the the idea that it's better to be fat. Fat positivity is not saying fat people are better. It's saying, Hey, can we have the same access? Maybe? Is that okay? Can we be treated like humans, is not saying that fat people are better, you know, that fat people are pretty fucking amazing. Some of them aren't. Okay, Donald Trump. But, you know, that's not what it's about. It's not about slagging off thin people and saying thin people ugly, fat people are beautiful. You know, it's not about aesthetic. It's not about saying that people are worthy because some people are ugly. You know, you remember a few weeks ago, I said, I was saying about some guy, I was texting on the avoiding apps. And I said, Oh, hey, just checking eat your fat positive. And he was like, Yeah, I'm fat positive, because I'm fat. And I was like, well, that doesn't make you fat positive. And he says, Yeah, because I think that that thin women are disgusting. And I was like, No. And so it's that's not that's not what it's about, right? Yeah. And the same as well, the Another misconception is the fat positivity or body positivity is all about loving your body. And that is the goal of it is to love your body. The goal of it is liberation, for fat people. If you in my opinion, the ability to accept your body, and even love your body is a wonderful thing that is going to make fat activism and fat liberation a billion times easier, easier in the regards that if you think that you're disgusting, and that you're an attractive and should lose weight, and all that type of stuff. It's harder to fat for your fight for your rights, if you believe those things about yourself, right. Whereas if you think that you don't have to love yourself, but if you think that you are a worthy human being and you deserve, love, and acceptance, and all that type of stuff, it's easier to fight the fight, when you're on board with it yourself. Not saying that you have to be. And that's not what fat positivity or body positivity is about. It's about the liberation of fat bodies. Another misconception is that this is a lot of times it comes from from Trolls is that fat positivity is all about giving up on your health, an act of you actively pursuing the goal of being unhealthy? Got it, Scott. No, no, no. So it's not giving up on your health. It's not about health. It's a you know, it's about access, which will will improve health because then fat people will be able to get medical care, which is equal to straight size people, right. And so, you know, I would argue that if anything, it's not about health, but if anything, it would be pro health, because we're not pursuing weight loss. We're not pursuing something that is really detrimental towards our health. We are pursuing things that are positive for our mental and physical health. So yeah, I think a lot of times, if that people are not

Speaker 1

28:00

chastising themselves, if they're not self flagellating. If they're not saying, I know I need to lose weight, I know it's unhealthy to be fat. I know that I'm a piece of shit. Then people are like, Oh, well, you were just trying to be unhealthy. Just before we came on in here, actually, I can get some ideas. This I shared a post on Instagram, I'll tell you later. But this thin white dietitian who is anti diet, says Victoria made a post. She is great. At first she was like fucking misgendering me all over the shop. And Victoria loves me so much. Isn't that my agenda? She's She made this post. And it was great. But someone commented saying We don't owe anyone health. And I don't agree with that. Don't we owe ourselves health? Don't we? You know, shouldn't don't we owe it to ourselves to journal every day. Well, what the fuck are you talking about? What's that? What is that got to do with anything? Like? I'm just speechless. Like, no, no, like, what it is it's not you know, you do you owe yourself health. It that's just like a red herring. It's it's it's it's not what we're saying. We're saying that. You don't need to be healthy to be worthy. We're saying that health is a incredibly complex concept. And we're saying that health is

Speaker 1

29:39

mostly out of our control. And if you want to pursue health promoting behaviors, great if you don't Great, neither makes you morally inferior or superior. And if you were concerned about health, health at a population level and an individual level, you wouldn't be saying Don't we owe it to ourselves to be healthy? Because you know how shaming and stigmatizing that is? Because you wouldn't be telling people you need to journal if you really if you if you cared about yourself, you would journal and she said, she said, Listen, you don't even have to get out a pen and paper, you can just do like an audio note. What the fuck are you talking about? How is that? Like, what? Why are you breaking people if they don't? Journal? How is that health promoting? I get it like journaling could be good for someone. But I mean, telling someone that they they should be looking after their health by journaling. And I think she thought she was being very forward thinking by saying, Not mentioning food and exercise, she was being forward thinking by mentioning, she said sleep and journaling. Yeah. So if you're really concerned about health, you, you would be looking at social justice issues, you'd be looking at environmental issues, you will be looking at all the different things that make up individual health, only 36% of it is individual behavior. And inside that 36% is things like access to guns, sleep, food, and movement is in there. And there's one more camera is six different things anyway. Yeah. And it's kind of like defining health as this, this this this one little thing. It's one little thing which is journaling or not, or something that you can just decide, you know, like do you owe yourself engaging in behaviors that some thin white dietitian has said is good for you on Instagram, if that induces shame? In sadness, negative emotions, like is that then health promoting? Or is that just a lot of all the same shit, it's a lot of all the same shirt. So next, a lot of people think vert fat positivity or body positivity is because you should love your bodies what they think, then you should be wearing a bikini all the time. You should never wear makeup, you shouldn't present yourself in a very, you know, you should be just like, wearing the plane as close as possible, which is absolutely the way where it is logic. When I was on that BBC show Paul Courtney, who was an absolute wonderful person. People were criticizing her she's fat positive, because she likes makeup. And because she has blue, wicked, her. They're like, Oh, how can you be pani body positive, if you've got if you wear makeup. Clearly you don't love yourself. If you wear makeup. It's like how they help help people get like this one thing, and then make it into this other thing. It's just absolutely wild to me. Wearing makeup or modifying your body, or whatever you want to do with your body doesn't mean that you don't then think that fat people should be treated like people. It means that you like doing those things. It means that makeup is fun, it means that having blue hair is Fern it means that piercing your nipple is brings you joy, you know, whatever it is, you know, it's nothing to do with the other. So, so with all that in mind, answering the question, can we be fat positive body positive and diet. So you notice that I'm using the word body positive and fat positive. In case you haven't heard other episodes about kind of the difference between fat positivity and body positivity, body positivity. The term was coined in the 1990s. And it was basically FAT, FAT positivity, fat liberation, fat activism, just with a different name. And it's you know, same tenants. And then recently, in the last kind of 10 years, people have have shied away from saying fat, liberation, fat positivity, all that type of stuff, because they don't want to be associated with fat people. And they just want to say I'm body positive. So that means I love my body. And it's not about loving your body. It's about politics and saying that fat people should have rights. Same thing I've been saying all along. And so a lot of fat people are like awful Fox, like something that the Finns have taken from us all right things you have it so, so straight sides, people have basically

Speaker 1

34:30

co opted it, which is you know, whatever that happens, and made it taken all of the radical ideas out of it, and just made it about being thin and, you know, making your body into a pretzel so that you can say, Oh my God, I've got a tiny little bit of fat on my tummy. Yeah, so. So I don't really identify as being body positive. Like if someone said are you I'd be like, Yeah, whatever. But, you know, because it kind of It feels a bit more milquetoast it feels a bit, it feels a bit fluffy and boring to me. Whereas fat positivity feels radical. Because, you know, a lot of people were like, Yeah, buddy positive love. And then if a fat person says body positivity, like in gray, it's not you. I mean, the attractive people can be body positive, you know? So can you be body positive fat positive and diet. So when I say this, I'm talking about when we say diet, I'm talking about intentionally losing weight. So people's bodies change all the time, people lose weight, gain weight, whatever, for many different reasons. They could be sick, they could be suffering from grief, they could be depressed, they could just be busier than normal. And there's a million different reasons why people might might lose weight and a billion different reasons why people might gain weight. And that is unintentional. You know, as in, you're not like, right, okay, I'm going to lose weight. People who unintentionally lose weight, or gain weight, it's just being a body, it's just having a body, right? It's just having a human body. It's just normal. What we're talking about here as people who are like, right, okay, I'm definitely I want to lose weight, and I'm going to lose weight and love. There's two different schools of thought on this. The first is dieting to intentionally lose weight is not aligned with fat positivity. Because it means that you think there should be less fat bodies in the world, as you are raising potentially your own fat body or trying to make yourself less fat appear less fat. And it means that you buy into the lies that diet culture perpetuates, including lies about fat and health and fat and worth. And theoretically, it means that you reject the science, weight science and you buy into faulty science. And it means that maybe you're increasing stigma, and marginalization of fat bodies, because people around you will be affected by your negative beliefs around about fat bodies, and your pro diet stance. So you are unintentionally harming fat people and a straight size people because straight sides, people suffer from the effects of fat phobia to. So you can of course lose weight if you want to. You can do whatever you want with your body. And this school of thought is saying I mean, you can do what you want with your body who fucking cares? It's your body. It's not anything to do with anyone else. But can you say, I believe in diets, I support diets, I think diets work. And I think they're good. And I think fat bodies are bad. But I also believe in fat liberation. But it's like, two separate things, right? The two different things. And fat liberation isn't about saying that people can't be thin or fit people shouldn't be thin. Again, it's about saying that fat people are human right? And so it just doesn't, it doesn't seem aligned, does it? If you know what fat positivity is or what body positivity is, and a lot of people say, Well, if you love your body, then you would love it enough to lose weight. Well, it's, it's like this anti science and anti science stance, because we know that there is no way to lose weight. But if you're attempting to lose weight, you believe that there is or you wouldn't, wouldn't be bothering is this, you know, stance number one.

Speaker 1

38:51

Stance number two on this is that maybe you have to lose weight. Maybe you're being coerced, maybe it's not your choice. Maybe it's too emotionally painful to not lose weight temporarily. So very example, if you need a life saving surgery, a lot of times doctors will say I will not do it unless you lose weight. So say if you need gender confirmation surgery, and you're a fat person, and every doctor you go to says we can't we will not operate on you because you're deemed too high risk. And you know that you need this surgery or you will die then you're being coerced. Right? You know, that if you lose weight, it will be temporary. But you have to, to please the doctors who clean don't get clean, don't give a shit about your health. And so you will but also at the same time knowing that this diet is detrimental towards your physical and mental health, that it's temporary But is is ridiculous. And it's fucked up. But you just have to do it because what's the other choice? Also, perhaps temporarily losing weight is something that will keep you safe mentally right now, maybe the idea of being fat or not being thin is too difficult to live with. And you're looking for any bit of relief. And your fat frenemy voice is overwhelming. And the fatphobia we see in society is too much and whoa, whoa, Nelly, I can totally understand that of seeking anything for relief from that. burden that that, that crushing shame that society tells fat bodies that they need to infect people that they need to feel. And so you 100% believe that this pursuit of weight loss will fail. And that you're able to be healthy minus trying to manipulate your weight. But temporarily manipulating your weight is what is best for you right now. So that's the other school of thought on that. And I felt like I've kind of softened in regards to my stance on this or you know, whatever I do what you want with your body. It's probably it is definitely not helpful for people who are engaging in in diets, to be leaders of the fat positive community who I'm thinking of this as one person who fucking gets on my sets. No End patient advocate for fat people, uses yo words thinks that being fat as a disease thinks that fat people just need to learn how to eat a salad desperately hates her own body would do anything to become thin. That person should not be a leader in the facultative community because she is not that bizarre. She hates fat bodies including her own. But you mean should she just be a person out in society living and living a life? Yeah, why not go for it? Do whatever. But should that person be influencing fat people and and echoing the sentiments that fat is bad while also claiming to be fat positive? I mean, I don't think so. But unfortunately, I'm not boss of the world when I get to decide who gets platforms and who doesn't get platforms. Yeah. I wouldn't want that job anyway. Can you imagine? Oh, God, imagine anyway. Oh, God, I didn't know that person was a secret beggar. Oh, no, I fucked up again. Oh, no. Yeah, so I think it's an issue when someone is buying into favour beliefs and say says shit, like, my Yeah, but my you know, it's okay to be fat. But yeah, but my knees ache. And so I'm using health or losing weight for health reasons. And I know these folks believe that being fat makes their knees hurt, they deep in their heart think that they are able to lose weight and that it will magically cure their knees. And that, to me shows that they have a long way to go in, in understanding weight science and fat liberation concepts. As do we all you know, so, I mean, can you be fat? Can you claim to be fat positive, and also be intentionally trying to lose weight? I mean, they seem to be opposing opinions, right? Opposing beliefs. But I think there are circumstances where it's difficult. And living in the world as a fat person is really fucking difficult. I mean, it would get on my tits if I met someone who says oh, I'm fat positive and I'm so fat positive that I don't want to be fat. I'd be like

Speaker 1

43:55

I don't know about there's no sound and good to me. What people do with their bodies is none of my business. And what people call themselves is, is you know, you can call yourself anything you like. You can claim any type of label if you want to, you know, you might see consequences from it. My pupils have people saying I that doesn't doesn't sound right to me. Yeah, so anyway, so this post that I put today that not today yesterday, I want to share with you because someone Someone said I've been making this mistake and I didn't realize it and I was like Oh really? Okay. Because sometimes I think Oh, most people that follow me are like, deep in fat, fatness in fat, politics and fat, the fat positive world, all that type of stuff. Sometimes I think, oh, it's it's redundant to say certain things because everyone knows, but it's not true. It's not true. Not true that everyone knows this and that whatever. So this post reads, what's wrong with saying as long as you're healthy? So let me repeat. The post reads what's wrong with saying as long As you're helping underneath it says, fat people get told that it's okay to be fat. Only as long as you're healthy. That's fucked up. Here's why. First, it's ableism healthiest, it presumes healthy and able bodies are better than disabled and unhealthy bodies. Fat people who are healthy are just as valid, worthy and deserving of respect as those who are healthy. Do I say that right? Fat people who are unhealthy, are just as valid as those who are healthy. It presumes the fat people are inherently unhealthy, alarming, fat, fat people can be healthy. It simplifies what health is, and labels it as 100% in control of the fat person puts you in a position of power, judging whether fat people are allowed to exist or not. Not as long as you're healthy, fat people are valid and worthy no matter what. So this is spurred because I'm going to the hairdresser tomorrow. And last time I went to the first time I went to this address, this is my third time go to etc. The first time I went to the hairdresser, he said, What do you do for a living? I told her and she said, Oh, that's amazing. As long as your health v. And my brain in the moment, as the brains sometimes do said nothing and just continued on with something else. I changed the subject because I wasn't my brain wasn't in the position to say, actually, new hairdresser that I've just met. That believe is is not helpful or healthy or whatever you learn. And so, you know, three, four months later, write a post about it because I'm mad. Yeah, and sometimes just an FYI, sometimes in situations, you don't always have to be educating people or setting boundaries or saying, Listen, you can't say that shit, because sometimes you don't feel like it, your brain isn't in the right place. You just want to get your haircut and get out of there. And then you know, the next session then I had, then I had to in the next session, I had to set a boundary with her and say, My pronouns are they them. And I spoke about that on the podcast before and she said, Oh, my pronouns are she her? At the end, she said, your brand new woman, and then said, Oh, no. Oh. So I wonder if she remembers, I'm going to remind her again tomorrow that my pronouns are they them, and hopefully, she remembers and at the end says, you're a brand new person, or whatever. And doesn't talk about like health, because this time I feel like I would be ready to you know, like one boundary at a time. This time I would be ready to say law, but I doubt that she would she's probably a bit scared of me because I couldn't because I she got my pronouns wrong. And I could tell that she was really upset that she had maybe done something to upset a client you know, the, you know, the people who might say these things I don't think that they're trying to be they're trying to be forward thinking right? They're trying to say something encouraging and, and all that type of stuff, and they're not a lot of times trying to hurt you. Me, but they are, unfortunately, which is not good. Which sucks balls. I wonder how in the numerous ways I'm like accidentally hurting other people. Did it hurt your feelings when I started the podcast, calling you a rat bastard?

Unknown Speaker

48:18

Or rat bastard? I didn't mean to hurt your feelings by calling you a rat bastard. You're the best rat bastard in the world. Okay. Alrighty, well, that is the end of our podcast today. I

Speaker 1

48:31

hope you have had the best time as a big flock of crows flies over my window. But you had the best time and thank you for hanging out with me. Say hello crocodile buddy

Speaker 1

48:53

thanks for listening to the episode and if you feel ready to get serious about this work and want to know when the doors open to fears fattier Academy which is my signature program, where I teach all about how to overcome your fat phobic beliefs and learn to love your fat body. Then go to first party.com forward slash waitlist again that is phase fatty.com. Forward slash waitlist to get your name on the waitlist. For when first party Academy my signature program opens

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