and so I do, I just say that to kind of create a awareness of my experience level. Uh, I'm happy to have been able to join today. I've kind of been tracking Edwin on Facebook, not stalking, but just kind of, you know, keeping an eye on on the horizon for a couple of years, and it's never been an opportunity for me to really participate. So I've put my schedule and condition and circumstances are have opened up, and I've been looking for something, and I'm in the process of registering online right now for their training. So
wonderful. Yeah. So I know that Masha and Rosa have experience with empathy circles, so I just asked Ed if we had experience with empathy circles, and I didn't realize that we were in the room with Edwin. So Edwin, you want to do the timing, or you want to be there?
I'll skip the timing just, I'm tracking all the rooms as well. So
alright, so we'll do three minute times time turns and I guess, yeah, I
just want to reflect that I'm hearing that Ed has a ton of experience with all kinds of empathy related work, and I am personally delighted that he is here now, experiencing this variant of empathy circles.
Okay, thank you. So, thank you. Thank you for the first listener. And Ed, would you like to be the first speaker?
I'm willing. Yes. So,
Rosa, would you like to be the first? Sure? Okay, here we go. I'll show the timer unless somebody doesn't
want eight. Oh, that's super helpful. It's super helpful to see a timer. And we're doing three minutes,
three minutes. And what are your top takeaways from the empathy circle process that whatever we heard in the summit, or whatever you'd like to talk about,
yeah, I was, I've been very happy, delighted to find this, to finally Be able to attend an empathy Summit. And was very I felt very connected and aligned with everything that I've that I've heard, especially around the emphasis or the importance of self empathy and and of reflection in the process, I'm
keep it straight, yeah, so I, if I may part, ask you to pause so that I can reflect back. So I'm hearing that you're really happy to be here, that you're feeling connected and aligned, and that you specifically connected with the value of self empathy.
Is there more? Yes, yes, thank you. Yeah, I would say, I, I the the sense of alignment that I get in this is that it's a fit for what I was, what I've been looking for more actively for the past six months or so. After participating in a couple of other online programs since covid, I haven't really found a track, so to speak, to run on. Much as I value the the skills of empathy and compassion, I'm I kind of lack the skill set for creating a structure for other people to others to join in and participate. And so, yeah, man, I'm happy to have this sense of,
may I reflect that part. Um, so you're feeling fit, a fit here, which is really cool. And so part of that is that you've been looking for something, and you you have a lot of skills with regard to empathy, and you're looking for a structure that can help people be together in an empathic space is that close. Mm.
Oh yes, it is. Thank you. That's perfect. The thing that I'm really that really interests me is the the broader, more general kind of focus and the flexibility of applying the the practice in different structures, partnerships, and I'm, I'm not able to cite all of those that I just heard, but, but, but that's speaks very powerfully to me. Thank you.
Yeah, so we always end with reflecting back so just to, just to wrap up that you appreciated seeing that this is a process that can be used in a lot of different ways, and that was something that you that really resonated for you. Is that close?
Thank you. Thank you Rosa. It was wonderful to be heard so thoroughly. And thank you all.
So since I was this listener, now I get to be the speaker. And Masha, would you be willing to listen to me?
Yes, I'd love to Great,
okay, and Jenna, okay, you've got the great, yeah. So I'm super jazzed to be here. I think one of the things I'm most noticing, in addition to it being used in different places, which I also really like, is that people are really starting to do a lot of weaving of other practices, which is something that means a lot to me, because I'm a weaver, I like to blend things. And so there was a lot of people talking about NVC, and people talking about ifs, which are both practices that I enjoy, and weaving them into an empathy circle container, so I'll pause there. Thank you.
I'm hearing that you're very excited to be here. You're very excited also because you hear, you heard on this summit, you realized how many people are actually using empathy circles together with other approaches. And what I you call this very nice you call this weaving, how they're weaving, these different approaches and that complement each other. And this really excites you, because you yourself like to weave, and see yourself as a weaver.
Thank you. Thank you. I was very interested in what you're doing in terms of the connections with the more than humans as well. So I'll just add that in.
And I'm hearing that you're also interested in the things when where empathy circles are used in connection with non human world.
Yeah, yeah. Thank you. And I noticed that I'm feeling a bit of sadness come up because I I feel like I've been, mmm, you know, I've known Edwin for a long time, and I feel like I've been involved a little bit in some different ways, but I'm just feeling, I guess I'm feeling a desire to feel more connected to the community as a whole, and not really sure about how to do that.
I'm hearing I'm sorry, yeah, I'm hearing that you're noticing that sadness is coming up for you and because you've known Edwin for a long time, but you're noticing that you haven't, I mean, you haven't been connected so much with the community, and now you're thinking that maybe this sadness is connected to your realization, maybe a longing to be more deeply connected with this community. And at this moment, you don't know how you could do this. Yeah,
thank you. I feel heard.
Ah, thank
you. That's a good place to stop. Yeah, thank you,
Edwin, would you listen to me? Or will you? Yes, I'm listening. Okay, thank you.
I think I will speak on both on the what is alive in me and what came up for me during the summit, because I'm realizing it's it has merged.
So you're going to talk about two things once, just alive in you, in the moment, and also it's come up about the summit. It sounds like those two have actually merged.
Yes, I came to the summit quite stressed, because when I tried to test zoom, my computer didn't recognize didn't find speaker and microphone anymore. Yeah. Yeah,
you're feeling kind of stressed when you came because your computer wasn't working, the microphone couldn't find the speaker, or the microphone, just kind of felt stressed about it. Yes,
and I was thinking, Oh my God, these are the key elements. I don't even need the camera, but they need to hear me. And it was quite frustrating. And I became angry, which is quite new for me, because anger is not an emotion that would usually come up for me.
Yeah, so you felt frustration about it, but then this anger came up, but you're not It's not like something that comes up for you really anger.
And then I quickly found solution, and it was only the third computer that actually I could use. So I came to the summit quite stressed, apart from the fact that I knew that I really would like to speak in a coherent way.
So that stress, you brought that stress to the to the to the meeting and you knew you wanted to speak in a coherent way, but you had that stress still.
And then the experience of listening to Tina sharing completely brought me back to my center. And when I listened to her, I I realized, I mean, I connected with the courage, with the power, with the space, because this was my experience of her and authenticity, because she she chose to speak in her way and to present her inner world in her way. And I really, I felt so much admiration for
that, yeah, when Tina spoke, he really, really grounded you, and you felt real admiration for for her and her kind of authenticity.
And I felt her power and courage,
and her power and courage in her speaking.
And the other thing that came up during the summit was a thought that I will connect with you after the meeting, because I think that, yes, it's a time that we start this empathy movement in in a big way. And I have some ideas, and I really the it really became clear to me that I get to connect also with
you. Yeah, so you're thinking about wanting to connect with me, because you're really wanting to kind of, kind of work on the empathy movement and and more to connect about that. We sounds like you have some ideas about it.
Thank you. I feel completely hurt. Okay,
uh, Jana, I speak to you. I don't know if it's, it'll be nice. Maybe little dings,
see, people didn't like the other one here.
You know, just said it. It says that there are three unassigned participants,
maybe the the their their hosts over. They're kind of, that's kind of their job, and one of them is just my second computer. Okay,
I have some choices. Time's up. Beep, beep, beep.
Let's say, okay, alright, here we go. Yeah, it feels really good. Just everybody kind of sharing. You know, here these personal stories, like, it's really moving just to hear all the different personal stories. It's sort of a gratifying to feel like, oh yeah, we're really contributing to people's well well being,
yeah, so you're finding the personal stories that have been shared in the summit and now to be really gratifying, and you know that you're really making a difference, that these circles and all of us are really making a difference in people's lives.
And Tina had interviewed me last week, you know, for a project she was doing, and she also just shared a lot just about how the empathy circles had really helped her. And, you know, it's just, it was just very moving to to hear that as as well as Alyssa, you know, it's like, what, eight years ago, met her at UC Berkeley, and, you know, it's just, it's something so simple, it has impacted people's lives. So yeah, it feels good.
So you're sharing that Tina interviewed you last week, and she also shared her personal experience with the empathy circles and how it has helped her and changed her and and that felt really good. And then hearing Alyssa speak also that you just met Alyssa, you know, UC Berkeley, a simple practice. And really she's, you know, how what she shared is quite powerful,
yeah, and I'm looking forward to talking to Masha about, yeah, how can we work together more, even if Rosa has ideas, and how can we scale up? Seems to me this kind of, you know. Kind of with the political time, there's a lot of things that are changing, and there's sort of a chance for kind of new programs, new, you know, after Trump and so forth, kind of new ways of being. I think now is sort of a time where we can be building that,
and then Rosa and Masha might have ideas for how to grow the movement and wanting to be involved. And you know that this particular political time and so forth, and what's going on, you know, maybe there's an opportunity for changing the way of being and how we we relate to one
another. Yeah, and and Rose and I had written a chapter, a book, chapter of Rosa, most of it on for for the museum to book in museums that was on empathy in museums. And we did a chapter on the empathy circle, so that should come out next year. So I kind of excited about that, too.
And you're sharing that Rosa, and you collaborated on a chapter on the Empathy Museum for the Empathy Museum book, it should be coming out next year, and you're excited about that,
yeah. One thing I do feel frustrated about is there's so this dialog happening at sort of a political, social level, you know, around empathy, you know, with all the criticisms of empathy, and we haven't really been able to be part of that, you know, so our voice hasn't been heard. So I'm trying to work and how do we get, you know, get heard there.
It was still frustrates you and motivates you, is to get into that dialog about empathy that you have all this current critique coming up about empathy, you know, from the radical empathy to the sin of empathy from one extreme to another. Want to get in there and be part of that, and you know, and contribute to that in a big way.
Yeah, I feel hurt. Thanks,
Ed, you'll listen to me. You ready?
Thank you. Yes,
yeah. So you know it's
so I'm sorry will
so I'll just speak in short chunks, and you just reflect and do the however you do is fine. And summarize, or if you want to reflect verbatim, or however it comes out is fine. So I yeah, really moving, yeah, to hear the personal transformation like Alyssa, completely transformed inside and out
that you you find it's really moving to hear about all the transformation both that it's moving both internally and externally.
Yeah,
yeah. And Bob wasn't the only one who had tears in his eyes when Tina was speaking,
and Bob wasn't the only one that had tears in his eyes. And I'm and I'm imagining you are. You had them too, so you didn't quite say that, but yes,
yeah, and what else, and I loved what Master shared about also connecting with animals and and nature.
Yeah, that master's presentation, when she shared about connecting with animals and nature, empathy for others, other species and that that was very connecting for you.
And not only that, but also working with a consistent group, you're not the only one. There's a Russia from India has also been doing that. And you know, when Russia talked about it, I didn't really start thinking about it, but when you talked about it, somehow I thought, yeah, that's what I should also do, not just have public events where people come and people go and kind of pop in and pop out, but also to have a consistent group and that that can be very special and meaningful, but
having a consistent group was special and meaningful for you, because not just the value of of exposure, of people coming and going, you know that that's good too, but, but having a consistent group where there can be more more depth explored or more Deep, yeah, that's
something that I haven't done with empathy circles, that Masha has been doing,
alright, something that you haven't done and you want to try or want to begin doing,
yeah? So, yeah. So thank you for that. And I'm going to share in the chat a book. I don't know if we're allowed or not to share the chat empathy circle, but I'm going to share because this book is about nature in Bhutan and gross national happiness, and so I'll just share that, and might interest Masha and maybe someone else. Thank you. I feel heard. And it's your turn to pick a speaker, and you can how to turn so you can pick any one of us. Yeah. I look
forward to seeing your share of the book.
You have a last little bit that still needs to be reflected. Jana,
oh, I'm saying,
yeah, that you wanted to share. There was a book about that, about the past time in Japan, about being in nature of a book about that that you wanted to share.
It's about, it's by Bhutanese author from Bhutan, Bhutan in
Bhutan. Yeah, okay.
Thank you. I feel fully, fully heard. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Ed, yeah, so you can pick now anywhere you want, and I'll start the timer, and then I'll share in the chat, because I can't do both.
So who's Am I speaking or,
yeah, you choose a listener, and we've all had a turn. So you can pick any one of us. It doesn't matter who,
okay to be a listener. To be your listener. Okay?
You can invite them to be a listener, but they'll always say yes, almost always, yeah,
Edwin, would you? I was? I'm looking forward to to learning more about the structure and doing the training for the empathy circles. Because I'm, I too, am interested in creating a little bit more exposure and and and and greater depth of training and participation the to serve the value of empathy, the value that it brings to people in their personal lives and in their, you know, professional endeavors.
So you'd like to promote the the value of empathy in in different areas of, you know, people's in lives. And for that reason, you want to learn, you know, more about the structure of the empathy circle, and also take the training.
Yeah. Thank you. I also am interested in the culture of what what appears to be, the culture and of the of the empathy circle community seems to be a very good fit for me. I i have the other circles that I have participated in, and the ones that I tried to create myself were either too focused in a particular area where I didn't have a skill set or an educational background, a medical profession in particular, they kind of started out with that and and so it didn't, you know, I was looking for something to bring the power and joy of empathy to a More a broader, more secular kind of population. So to
speak. So the the groups that you started yourself, or that you took part in, they didn't, they seem to be too focused, maybe too narrow, and it didn't work that that well. And you check wanting to check out the empathy circle community, or the empathy group community, to see if that sort of works, you know, for for you,
yeah, and my thank you, and my original concern, I guess, around this, why, why I waited so long to get to dive a little deeper, was that my, my awareness of the practice, With the empathy tension, everything was that it was that it was political, that the focus was political. And I guess I didn't, I kind of and so, yeah, so, and I wasn't that interested in political issues at the time, but I see that, yeah, so that that's not the only focus. There's a lot of flexibility for the practice. Yeah, you
already had some concerns about the empathy tent and the empathy movement that we're doing because you thought it was more politically oriented. Now you see that it's, it's kind of broader than that.
Yeah, and certainly you're open. You seem to be, at least the organization, everything seems to be more open to having it spread, you know, not just in the political arena, although, you know, that's a great place for it, you know. So yeah, you're
seeing that we're really wanting it to spread. Widely, and not just in the political area. Even though the politics is, is good too, and that was a time to it was a point of entry, yeah, okay, I'll speak to Rosa, since she's unmuted already. Oh, sorry, no, that's good, yeah. The the empathy movement is, is, you know, this is, you know, as we're doing it in the empathy tent, is not taking political sides, it's trying to bring the different political sides together. And that's just part, you know, of what we're doing. You know, it's really about just spreading mutual empathy as widely as possible, making it a primary cultural value.
Yeah. So you're clarifying that you're all about making empathy a primary cultural value and spreading it as wide as possible, and bringing the two different sides together in politics, that's just one part of it, and you're not picking either side. You're just wanting to bring people together in that realm, as well as in others. Yeah.
So, yeah, I'd love to have Democrats and Republicans both be using, you know, empathy, valuing empathy, then it becomes a common ground. You know, if the sides have value of empathy, then it you have a good starting place. And it seems to me, pretty much any conflicts or issues can be sort of worked out with that common ground.
Yeah, so you think it would be a great world if both the Democrats and the Republicans were using empathy, because then it could be a common ground for exploring other differences.
And I'm really looking at, you know, how do we scale up? You know, we, Bill said, Oh, we trained 1000 people, but our goal is to train, you know, all 8 billion people. You know, how to take part in an empathy circle. So we're going to take, need something that kind of scale up, and just thinking of how we can scale up,
yeah, you've been thinking a lot about scaling because, you know, you've done a lot. 1000 people is a lot, but you're thinking about the whole world. So that's it. That's on your mind.
And, you know, I thought, Well, I'm gonna get an article in New York Times. You know about empathy can bridge the political divides. There's been a bunch of articles. You know, something needs something. There's sort of this level, political, social level that we're not sort of part of that debate. You know, the Atlantic, the New York Times, The New Yorker, you know, there's sort of this level of cultural discussion going in. And how do we get sort of into that level to kind of bring our message,
yeah, so you're wondering how you can get your message in some more high level channels, like the New York Times and things like that.
Yeah, we have Gavin Newsom here in Sacramento, so I've talked to him a couple of times, and, you know, I tried to get him to do empathy circles with his opponent before he, you know, kind of poo pooed it. But he did. He has talked about he's probably going to run for office. So I kind of see maybe something about getting connected with Gavin Newsom. I do think there's some possibilities there for you know, yeah, can I
yeah, here's you're seeing some possibilities about connecting with Gavin Newsom and you've tried, and sounds like you want to keep trying.
Yeah, I feel heard cool.
Jenna, would you be willing to listen to me? Yeah? Okay, yeah, so, hmm, well, I want to start by saying that I just I'm celebrating. I just turned 64 a couple weeks ago, and I'm a pracademic. So I was a practitioner for about 20 years, and then I went back to school, and I got a PhD a couple years ago, and I just had my first peer reviewed article out, and I just put that link in there, and it actually made, well, I'll pause there.
So you, you shared a term I never heard before, pracademic, and you said you're a practitioner for 20 years, and you just turned 64 and happy birthday and and you just two years ago, got your PhD, and you just got your first peer reviewed article that you're sharing with us. And you're excited about that.
Yeah, I am. And one of the things is, it's, it's on the research that I did for my dissertation. So it's, it's the the facilitators in Austria that are facilitating these mini publics are using dynamic facilitation, which is its own practice. However, dynamic facilitation does a lot of active listening. I'll pause there.
So the previewed article is about your dissertation research, and it's about some Australian facilitators that are using Austrian is called dynamic listening. Dynamic facilitation, yeah, dynamic facilitation, and it includes a lot of active listening,
yeah, and so, so I ended up, this is actually just a little part of my dissertation, but I ended up really focusing on the active listening piece, and I did a big chunk of theoretical stuff in there that is really looking at what is the dialog and the debate around empathy right now, not so much the political New York Times kind of level of dialog, but the academic dialog. And so I'm just thinking that there's some stuff in there. Oh, and I and I do mention empathy circles in like, because I'm talking about how important it is for people to learn active listening. So I mentioned empathy circles, but I'm not researching people who do empathy circles. I'm researching people who do dynamic facilitation.
So you even mentioned empathy circles in your article because you think it's really important for people to gain this active listening skill. But the focus of your dissertation research was not empathy circles, but it was an active listening, and you do include academic aspect of discussion of like, what is empathy, you know? And part of the empathy the academic, academic debates are not so much the lay person you know, media, you know, showbiz, kind of anti empathy debate, but, but the academic side, yeah, maybe
Thank you. I feel very heard. Thank you so much.
Okay, so Masha, you listen to me? Yes, let's see. So yeah, I also, you know, Rosa spoke at an earlier Summit, and I should look at it again, but I think it was Rosa and someone else who talked about conflict, and I'm interested in that, and I'm working on developing some kind of like conflict as opportunity, course or program or process that includes education tools and the empathy circle.
That's too much. I'm hearing that Rosa spoke on the empathy summit in April, and somebody else also spoke on the conflict. And you have been also thinking to develop a program on the topic of conflict, to prepare materials to include empathy circles, some other tools to help with the conflict resolution.
Yeah. Conflict is opportunity.
Uh huh, you will you, you're thinking to develop a program, conflict as opportunity.
Yeah, maybe more like, I think it was Bill Lou was talking about in the Petaluma conversations that you know the understanding part precedes the any kind of resolution or solving.
Mm hmm, and today Lou spoke about that understanding precedes any kind of resolution of conflict.
Yeah. Well, it should, it needs to, and it's not developed enough, so that has been like their focus in Petaluma conversations,
or at least, or at least it needs to proceed, it needs to be developed. Or at least they are trying to develop that.
Yeah, and that also today, the takeaways, my takeaways, I love Zach's presentation, even though his style is totally different.
And I hear that you today also loved sex presentation, although his style is very unique, but still you enjoyed it.
Yeah, it's, you know, the the women you know, are more like on the intuitive, you know, internal, transformative, you know, feeling kind of, you know, and his is more organizational, business oriented, plan oriented, you know, and model oriented. But I still loved his presentation. I loved, you know, I mean, first of all, dialog and inclusion of all views.
I'm hearing that you love Zach's presentation because he was compared to maybe women speakers who are more intuitive, went more introspective. He was much more outside oriented. Had a structure, had a business idea. Practically he he. He illustrated practically how this would look like in practical life. And you really enjoyed his presentation.
Yeah, that is inclusive of all the views,
because it it is inclusive of all the
views. Yeah, very practical. Very practical. Yes. Thanks.
Thank you, Ed, yeah, Ed, would you listen to me?
Yes, thank you.
Listening now to, I don't know somebody, but I remembered one thing that also came up for me during the summit today,
listening to someone whose name you don't recall. They something you remember now that something came up for you at today's summit,
yes, and also yes, and this is my observation, connected to this empathy, toxicity, empathy as a scene like whole like, you know, negative Washing of empathy in media. I also recognized Another problem is that, like you Edwin, noticed that people really don't understand empathy when they are describing it as a weakness.
That this in the culture, that that you realize that people don't really understand empathy when they see it as a weakness. There was something that you the another unspoken problem that had come up that you've noticed or realized,
yes, when, when people on social media mostly describe that empathy is something that drains you, that empathy is something that is really not beneficial. It's more like a problem if you have it or not. And I realized that they're talking about codependency, and that's not empathy. And I was thinking, this is very important issue also to address. And I was thinking, I will make a a video or a post on this topic also.
So when you see people speaking on social media about empathy and how empathy, or being empathetic, is draining, you realize that that's not empathy. They don't understand what empathy is, that that is an expression of or a form of codependency, and that you're inspired or you're feeling a leading to to develop a presentation that clarifies that the core of allow to create a discernment, or a distinction between empathy and sympathy, which would be that codependence, Mm,
hmm. And also, I'm noticing that they are connecting this trauma response where you merge, or where you just there is no boundary, where you just merging with everybody. They describe this as empathy, which is, again, not empathy. So yes, there are many, many aspects that are not clear, or that maybe would be helpful to provide more clarity on that issue.
So another point that you realize about that is that people also talk about the collapsing of boundaries, or the absence of boundaries, the merging of conscious the the kind of codependent collapse in relationships that would be valuable to distinguish for them in that Presentation.
Yeah, thank you. I feel hurt. Thank you.
You're up again. Ed, you get to speak like you're listening
going back. Okay, I'm catching on. I'm catching the bus. I'm chasing the bus here. But I feel so I feel very Who are you speaking to? I'm sorry. Yes, thank you. Let's see. How about Janet, could you listen for me? Thank you. So I'm, I'm feeling, I'm feeling very safe in this room, in terms of. Of being able to be heard and be be accepted and be seen, the skills that the skill level that that you and the and the the focus and that you bring the that you bring in this group. I I feel so safe. It's embarrassing. It's It's I could think of myself in the past I would be intimidated by by all of the skill levels and experience levels here. But I, I, in fact, I don't so, but want to, yeah, so I think maybe saying that will help me let go of some of the butterflies about that.
So. So first of all, earlier, you said you're catching on you think and to how this goes, and you feel very safe here, even though, in the past, you might feel intimidated by the different skill levels, but you see that this practice is maybe you didn't say this, but you know, doable and and you describe it as butterflies, and you say that by sharing it, by sharing how you feel like maybe that'll help you let go of better now any discomfort or or safety.
Yes, very much. Thank you. And that is that is that is that is working, that is that's very good. I appreciate that the the Yeah, I, I was, I, I'm surprised that how much alignment I'm feeling in this, that the whole the conversation that about empathy and sympathy is something that I've been confronted for some time and and I, I've I speak to it occasionally with with personal friends and publicly in social media too. So, so I'm just really seeing a lot of values alignment, and I'm I'm looking forward to to learning more about this, about this community group,
and you're feeling in alignment with what you're hearing and in a sense of connection that you in private conversations and social media yourself have talked about the difference between empathy and sympathy, and you are looking forward to learning more about this community and learning more. And you feel that you share common I don't know values and interest.
Thank you. I feel very heard and and seen, and I'm feeling warm,
so you're feeling tired and seen and warm. Edwin,
will you listen to me? Listening?
Yeah, really lovely. I love the empathy circle.
I just love the empathy circle. Yeah, it's
really wonderful thing when I joined the empathy circles. You know, I'm sure you've heard me say that Kathy tricked me into joining the training.
So you're so joking that Kathy tricked you into taking part in the training you didn't know what you're getting into.
No, she said she needed facilitators for an empathy circle, for the peace Alliance. And would I take the training? And, you know, facilitator training, she was thinking looking for volunteers to take a facilitator training for something that I had no idea what it was, and I just volunteered. And I had never done an empathy circle, but I already had committed to the training,
so Kathy got you to volunteer. She needed facilitators so you didn't even know what you're getting into when you took the training. Yeah,
and then when I was taking the training, we said, you repeat it four times. And I'm like, what? Like? Anyway, here I am four years later.
Yeah, it's like, to become a trainer, you have to do it four times. It's actually five, yeah, it's repeated for it, oh, you have to repeat it, yeah. And in here you are. You're a trainer. Now, didn't know what you're getting into? Yeah,
it's really precious. And yeah, I can see this going in all the directions that are shared. And I'll just keep it short because I already had a turn. So
thanks. Yeah, you see it going in all these different directions. Actions. This this work. And yeah, you're gonna, you've had plenty of time to speak, so you're gonna keep it short, and I'll speak to Masha, since I don't think I spoke to you yet. Yeah, the definitions I've just seen, you know like you're talking about, there's all the information is out there, but somehow we're not able to get it out in a coherent way. Somehow, you know about definitions and so forth. So that's kind of my focus, and now is trying to get that articulated.
I'm hearing that you're trying now, getting out articulated all the informations and definitions around empathy, because right now, there is a lot of talk about
it confusion. Yeah, it's just a lot of confusion. And you know, it's so I'm just calling it the holistic empathy. I hope it can catch on, you know, to to kind of be clear on the different parts of it, and there this whole affective, cognitive empathy, you know, definition, I just that the academics is sort of created. They've just kind of put everything together in a hodgepodge. I think it's really doing, really inhibiting, kind of the the work, you know, creating a movement.
I hear that there is a lot of confusion around empathy, and you're trying, you you like the name holistic empathy, and you hope it will catch on, because all these scientific, cognitive, effective empathy, it's in your experience. It's doing the real empathy, actually the service, because it's just compartmentalizing this that actually, really is a complete, holistic process,
yeah, and it's just creating confusion. And I think what Rogers, Carl Rogers work, was just, you know, really great foundation, but somehow it's gotten his, you know, basic empathy, you know, definition, it was practical, you know, it's based on active listening. There's, you can experience it, instead of get lost in all kinds of theoretical, you know, concepts. So I think it's just a great foundation.
Yes, there is so much confusion around empathy, and I hear you that Carla Rogers made a great set, a great foundation for empathy, about with this basic empathy, what it is, but now it just somehow lots what we have now somehow lost the contact and
a lot of the criticisms I hear From the political left, right, or whatever, the phenomenon that they're criticizing, I agree with the things that they're having problems with. The only thing is, is I don't see that as empathy. So you know how to be able to clear and I've invited all of them, all the critics, into, you know, dialog, and a lot of them won't talk with me for some reason.
And the comments that you hear from left and from right around empathy and what? What are the problems you real? You realize that they're not really talking about empathy. And when you're trying to connect, connect with them to explain, they're really not responsive.
And yeah, and I feel heard. And we only have what about two minutes left? So maybe wanted to, want to open it just any comments, or just open discussion. Jana,
sure, and maybe start with Rosa, because you haven't had a turn in a while. If there's something you want to say first,
I guess there's one more link I want to put on there. I'm I'm doing a combination of dynamic facilitation and empathy circles and NVC. And I'm calling it co creating desired futures. And it's some friends wrote a screenplay about how we get from here to a positive future, and it involves people and communities starting to do little gatherings about how to make their neighborhoods better. So anyway, it's it's a fun thing, so I just thought I would share the link.
Thank you. Thank you.
And else, now we can talk out of turn, and there's no i. Know it's going to reflect and whatever you want to say how this was for you, or anything else you want
to add, yes, I'm, I'm I'm happy to I'm feeling complete, and I'm just, yeah, well, what I heard. So when I heard Edwin talk about Carl Rogers, I don't I'm not a student of Carl Rogers, and I'm certainly not a scholar, but, but my understanding that he posited two basic needs of belonging and significance, to which I which I'm not aligned with, I think he got it right on belonging, but significance is a strategy to meet other needs, and so I think he was only half right. Maybe that's why my vanity, I didn't bother to read anymore. But about him, but I know he did a lot of he created a lot of good, valuable insights as a pioneer in this kind of work.
Thank you. I don't know
so we got our little sign that we can leave the breakout room, but we don't have to leave right away. It will automatically take us out in a moment.
Yeah, got 40 seconds for any comments.
Well, just thank you everyone. It's been a real pleasure. Masha, it's been a pleasure to meet you.
And yes, thank you. Thank you everybody, Rosa, we will connect. I will write to you. Okay,
yeah. And Edwin, yes, let's definitely be in touch. And John
as well. I love all the work you're doing. Rosa, yes, thank you persevering. Just, that's what it takes, right? Just, perseverance. Eventually we outlive everyone else, all the other.
Last Man Standing,
yeah, okay, see,
it's heard more than my head will so So leading from the heart instead of the head. Thank you both. Thank you so much. Welcome back. Everyone. You.
