Usually people don't have the fear thing to this degree in the liminal space, because the fear is usually accessed in deeper practices. And so on one level, you know, congratulations, high five to you, that you're actually working with this. And the reason I say that is the following is that this fear is, is the bedrock of the whole samsaric display, if that's the foundation of everything we do in our lives, fundamentally. And so when you say this district comes up, it has nothing to do with dreams. That I mean, that's fantastic on on that wall. And so now the issue is exactly how do you relate to it? So let me see here, let's see, about the Restless Leg thing. That thing is I'm not sure I can address that. I'm trying to ping exactly what you asked. And then I'll come back with more general comments. I can live with fear, but I cannot go to sea for many hours and my legs are shaking. I mean, that could be restless leg syndrome, I just don't know. So the legs start shaking thing. I don't know to what degree is are you like thrashing? Is it just a twitching thing? I don't really know. They could also be and again, I'm just guessing here, this is where you have to do a little bit more of a psycho graph. Almost like a medical workup kind of thing. It could actually be some of the energy releasing Korea's. Very often when people start doing deeper practices, they have these spontaneous, they can be quite entertaining, actually, when you're looking at them from afar. It's like a breakdancer. I don't mean to be teasing with you. But on one level, people can be sitting there and all of a sudden their limbs start laying around. If they don't know what's happening, it can be a little bit unsettling. If you realize it's just the inner body being loosened up and the knots untidy and the energy flowing, then it's just not a big deal. So the understanding what's happening is important. It's like what Marie Curie says, right? The Nobel two Nobel Prizes, right? Nothing in life is to be feared. It's only to be understood. So what we need to do is understand. So the fear is really important, because everything we do in samsara, is based on a very sophisticated and elaborate avoidance strategy to avoid this fundamental fear. It's the core of the relative self sets. And so when you're doing deeper work, and again, the only thing that is a bit unusual, also good is that you're actually having this when you're working with the first of the five practices. So it's really important to establish a relationship to the sphere to understand what it is and to work with transforming it, because in so doing, you're going to be transforming a tremendous amount of impelling propelling energy. This usually circumvented into all forms of basically distraction distraction. And so the way to work with a sphere this is this is a really big topic. I always like to recommend certain sources that people can look at if you want to explore further. My dear friend, Bruce Taft, in his book already free, but doesn't mean psychotherapy on the path of liberation has a couple of really good chapters on fear and anxiety. Trumper Rinpoche wrote an entire book called Smile at fear. Pema children, almost a career out of this, go to the places that scare you. And then in my last book, dreams of light, I have to two chapters pretty sure, or at least two sections in one of my chapters on fear. And here's the thing with the fear thing. On one level, we need it right. So an integral approach to fear is critical. If we didn't have fear, in our kind of genetic makeup, we wouldn't be here talking about the nature of fear, we need fear in order to survive. And so this level of integral fear, the fear this based on this developmental thing with it's called ego, we need it, it's super important. So on that level, it's really important. But the trick is, when you go from kind of biological, traditional evolutionary vectors into transpersonal vectors, and the very fear that got us to this biological, evolutionary point, that now becomes an evolutionary phenomena. In other words, it says to hold us back. So establishing a relationship to this is critical. So because this topic is so big, what I might recommend is in addition to the the sources that are referenced is
go through it go into it, literally, the word fear comes from a root f a r e, as a toll fear as the toll the fear that we pay in order to really wake up and grow. And so what you're doing is you're actually arriving at the membrane of the relative self sense, which is pretty far down. And so the fact that you're accessing this and the first of the five nocturnal practices is really great. Now that doesn't make it particularly pleasant for you. But understanding that it is great from a psychospiritual evolutionary point of view, maybe we'll help you change your relationship to it, maybe it'll help you work with it. And so with that said, there's just a whole array of practices you can do. Once the fear actually arises, the single most important one is understanding the right view, knowing that this fear underlies everything you do in samsara, that underneath it is below the fear the fear that you have to pay. Below the fear. The fearlessness is the radiant display of the unconscious mind. So what you're dealing with now is the relative kind of repressed elements of the unconscious mind. And that's what creates all the untoward reactions towards it. And perhaps some of the anxiety is leaving, leading to some of the sleeplessness, this is a question that that would also be worth positing. Or I should say, presenting to Dr. At our sleep doctor, because he might have some kind of clinical tips for how to work with this in terms of insomnia. But for now, the idea is do whatever you can to understand the nature of this fear, that it's not who you really are. It's at the core of the relative self sense. So this is the fear that is at the center of the ego. And so you're touching into this fundamental matrix of the egoic structure. And understanding that then you'll say, Well, this is really interesting. You know, I'm going to hang out in this space, I'm going to establish a relationship to this fear. Because that's how you become fearless, you don't get fearless by getting rid of your fear, you become fearless by going into your fear and working through it. So do whatever you can maybe through reading some of this other stuff, to strengthen your view of the role of fear, learn to smile at fear, when it arises, realize he may not be pleasant, but it's actually really good news. And then the next thing is just stay with it. Observe it, be with it, stay with it, start to establish a relationship to it. Usually what makes fear and any other negative emotion, somewhat difficult intractable to work with is because we don't understand it. And then in our attempts to get away from it, ironically, we reify it, we solidify it. So I would recommend going actually do the opposite of what you would think you would do go directly into it takes a little bit of guts. But if you understand that there's fundamentally nothing there. It's just an energetic, it's just egos fundamental defense mechanism kicking into gear. So if you understand that, and you realize that below that darkness, alleged darkness, we're afraid, where are you afraid because you don't know, fear and ignorance are virtually synonymous. So you're bringing this unconscious processes until into the light of consciousness. And so if you have the right view, you realize the fear is actually the kind of a powerful metric for where you want to go. If you really want to grow, you will really accelerate your psycho spiritual development by establishing a relationship in the sphere. Because otherwise, trust me on this, everything you do in your so called waking conscious life is an avoidance strategy to get away from the sphere, which is at the core of the relative self sense, not absolute self sounds right? So hang with it, be with it, realize that it's good news. Just simply being with it starts to transform it. And eventually what's going to happen is you're going to de reify the fear. DFI means to deconstruct to a lucify to see it for what it really is. And so this is not easy to do, because we're conditioned to run away from our fear. But again, if you have this view, observe it be with it, go into it completely. This can really be a game changer for you. Okay, so I'm not being patronizing when I say this. This is good news may not seem like it. But this is what happens when people start doing the practice. Okay. Oh, this is someone collected from Tim I feel drawn to attaining enlightenment. Yeah,
I do, too. It's a good thing.
This is a long one. So I'm gonna run commentaries that go through it. Someone connected to the last question. I have often heard it said he postulated that in order to do so we have to go through ego death. Ah, yes. And no, I wouldn't use that term. Because again, when you're talking about ego death, it's ego dissolution. ego doesn't exist. He was just an arrested form of development is just a exclusive identification with form. So saying that you have to go through Ego Death means that something actually has to die, there's nothing there to die. That's that implies a reification that you think that the ego really exists that that it has a limited bandwidth of applicability, somewhat in relationship to what I've just said. So you don't want to get rid of you want to get rid of your ego first of all, there's nothing to get rid of. You don't want to kind of kill your ego you want to transcend but include it. This is the key to transcend. But include So the some of your questions alludes to this. So I'm going to read it and then come back to it. So I wouldn't use the word ego death, because that denotes that you're reifying the ego and so how you need to get rid of it. It's like saying, oh, I need to get rid of age 12 No, you don't. You need to transcend but include age to all, so transcending don't get rid of it. You need it. Okay, ego death because the ego blocks us from enlightenment. No, it doesn't. Ignorance blocks us from enlightenment, in ignorance as embodying a reified ego, if you associate with that, then you can say ego blocks us from enlightenment, but ego is an illusion, how can illusion have been a shadow block you from enlightenment? They can't, unless you reify it. So stop reifying it. As I think about it, though, it is the ego which feels limited and wants to know that it is more I would contest that Tim I don't think so. The ego is ml was not wanting to know, it's it's mo as an arrested form of development is to keep itself alive. And that's why on one level, it's important. The ego is important in conjunction with here, because it is what really kind of the term we append to this self sense that allows us to separate ourselves from other and on some levels. That's really important. Your immune system operates on this level. If your immune system wasn't able to separate cell from other antigen from antibody, you'd be dead. Just look at Acquired Immune Deficiency syndromes, right? So as I think about it, though, ego which feels limited, it doesn't feel limited, it feels, it doesn't feel anything almost really wants to know, I don't think so. You go feeds on ignorance, because it's the embodiment of ignorance. So I would challenge that it actually survives physical death. No, I can tell you that it does not. Because ego is an illusion. Truth is revealed that death ego is fake news, not real news. ego does not survive physical death. Ego will be reconstituted after you die. Why? Because you haven't stabilized dimensions of experience that transcended but ego definitely does not survive physical death. That's why ego is afraid of death. The ego wants to know, I don't think so. I would contest that the ego lives on ignorance and motivates us to find answers. Well, I love conventional level wants us to know how to stabilize itself, how to increase this property, how to continue to keep it alive. motivates us to find the answers. Yes, I'm in a very limited bandwidth, how can I sell sense stay alive? If this concept and that's it, it is a concept of ego death is true. It's not true. It is like the moth being drawn to the flame. There's some truth to that. Yes. And it would be destroyed before entering the fullness of the light. absolutely, positively. And so here's what's happening here, Tim. So here's this double, double, bipolar double bind bipolar relationship thing is going on where the moth to flame is actually a good metaphor. But the part of you that wants to go to the light, that's not the ego. That's the bandwidth of your deeper being that says I want to wake up I want to know I want to become enlightened. But this is very interesting. That game gets very interesting, slippery, tricky here like paper mache famously said, beautiful, you cannot attain enlightenment, you and enlightenment are mutually exclusive terms. Enlightenment is the dissolution or the transcendence of the you so the ego the ego saying it wants to attain enlightenment is basically saying, it wants to transcend itself. No, it doesn't. It wants to solidify and reify itself is a limited bandwidth of identity. But there's a deeper spectrum of your identity, the light within you that searching for the light. That's what's that's what wants to know that's what wants to wake up, not the ego. I quote unquote, really wants to know that I know what enlightenment is, that's a good thing to do.
study the dharma. Study non duality, study nature of mind study, emptiness, and to feel that my quest has been satisfied and fulfilled. Well, you will never know that because you will be absent slash ego when that quest actually has been satisfied and fulfilled right? You cannot attain enlightenment that's an oxymoron. In my current understanding, and you could there be me and your current understanding what happens to the ego during and after enlightenment? Well, the ego is transcended. It's got a got a gone gone, gone beyond completely beyond. But here's again, this is the critically important thing. Ie enlightenment transcends, but includes the ego and what this means is that when you attain enlightenment, you think of it as an adult. Ultimate adulthood is enlightenment. In this regard, you always have recourse stooped down. In an effort to communicate with others, you have the ability to stoop down and talk to a two year old. That would be Ego, but you still maintain your your adult perspective. So you always have recourse to communicate with others in a dualistic way, in the egoic way. In the therefore ego becomes an ally in that regard, ego becomes part of your skill set becomes part of pious skillful means, which is meeting people where they're at, not where you're at. So in this respect, you always have access to that developmental bandwidth. It's like, hey, I can act like a 12 year old to speak and communicate and help a 12 year old, but I'm not going to hang out at that age because I know being adult is a lot better, the view is better. It's more fulfilling. So the ego, ego enlightenment, mutually exclusive terms. But you can always with your enlightened adult perspective, we inhabit voluntarily, that's the difference not involuntarily, the ego again, with of identity as a gesture of compassion. skillful means to work with others, does it cease to exist? Well, it never existed in the first place. It says, you know, provisional, relative reality. So on one level, you could say this is where the stuff that gets tricky, the Nirvana nirodha, cessation extinction. It's the ignorance that is embodied in the ego that ceases to exist. Appreciate your thoughts you can share on this topic. Those are my thoughts, man. Good questions. Damn, these are really great. And if you hear and you want to follow up, come on, I, okay, here's the last one, and then we'll open it up. I'm not a very regular meditator and have never experienced bliss or extraordinary peace during meditation. That's fine. But not a few times, when my teacher has guided mindfulness meditation, the opposite has happened. Ah, this is a theme for today. I like it. At night during sleep without dreams arise the feelings of enormous grief, desperation, tremendous suffering, with uncontrollable crying, I wake up, tried to call myself fall asleep again, and it continues in the morning. I feel like I've had a nervous breakdown. And I'm generally quite optimistic type person without big worries in recent years.
I don't know how to relate to it. I tell myself that is a good that these feelings from my subconscious have arisen now and that in the Bardot's, I hope they are liberated or aren't they? But then I think that we have had infinite numbers of lives before in countless tragedies horrors of war. How could one ever liberate all this bad stuff? And I'm afraid that my barber experience will be like these nights. What do you think about this type of meditation experience? Okay. Another good one, so to speak. Good in the sense that it's rich. This is this is why, you know, these are deep diving experiences, this one and the other one. These are I mean, really, these are awesome. Because it means you're no longer window shopping, you're no longer doing feel good New Age spirituality. You're doing real good spirituality. And I say this a lot. The real spiritual path. It's not about feeling good, unless you're talking about basic goodness. real spirituality is in fact about getting real. And that means dealing with all this sort of stuff. And this is why so many traditions are warrior traditions. It takes a warriors attitude and a warriors mentality, equipped with the armor of the view and the practices that are implemented to relate to these experiences in the way that can be of some benefit. And so in relation to this one and the previous one, again, the master of the one liners, Trungpa Rinpoche beautifully, you know, beautiful line. Meditation isn't a sedative. It's a laxative. So congratulations. It's coming up the crap is coming up. This is where you need playfully always tongue in cheek here. All the all the toxic especially the tantric teachers will tell you this. You know better not to start. Better not to start. But if you're going to start better to finish in other words, do it consistently so to speak quickly. So get your spiritual attorney before you sign the spiritual contract and realize that when you're no longer window shopping and you're doing real practice Read, read Christopher herbaceous book LSD in the mind of the universe. Listen to my five hours of interview with this guy. He went through this stuff for 20 years using these entheogens this residue of the refuse all the things that we've refused and couches experience constitute the repressive elements of the unconscious mind. The this refuse the refuse elements become the refuse heap of the of the unconscious mind. And then when you relax that meditation, well guess what? All that crap comes up. And so therefore like the the other questions, first and foremost, just the right view that this is really good news. All the books that I referred to earlier come into play here, also the book by Robert masters. Spiritual bypassing is really good on this topic. But the question is similar to the other one, how do you relate to it, first of all, you relate to it with the right view, this is just part of the relative unconscious mind. That is, in fact being broken loose and coming into the surface of conscious awareness. That's fantastically good news. Because just like with the fear thing, until the stuff comes up in is liberated, kind of you could say purify cremated, in the light of conscious awareness. This is all the crap that's running your so called conscious life, your life then becomes nothing but a series of symptoms based on this fundamental undrained psychic apps so to speak. So, you know, these feelings of enormous grief, desperation, tremendous suffering, and uncontrollable crying, you know, it's really no day at the beach, but it's real, in the sense that this stuff is actually coming up. So I would recommend
Chris's book will really help you he talks a lot about the stuff that he went through. And the reason is helpful is because you realize you're not alone, you realize that the people who are doing deep dive spiritual work. Every buddy goes through this, it's just part of the deal. And that's why there are so few people who are on the spiritual path. Fewer people that stay with it. Fewer people that complete it, because all the stuff that we've thrown into our unconscious mind comes up. And if we don't relate to it, embrace it, say yes to it, guess what, you throw it back into the unconscious mind, and it creates this endless samsaric recycling process. So the way to relate to it is the right view. And then there's just a vast array of skill sets, this is a really big question. You can approach it from a more very powerful, relative way. In conjunction with therapy, I am a huge proponent of conjoining spiritual work at this level with therapy, where you can actually bring this to a sensitive therapist talk about it. And you don't have to completely do all this on the meditation cushion, which I think is a limitation of a number of teachers that still say, oh, you know, meditate more or meditate harder? Yes, meditation is fantastic. And I'll get to the more absolute approach with meditation. But my riff on this is do not hesitate for a moment to consult with someone who works in a psycho spiritual way with this type of thing. Learn to say yes to it, learn to embrace it. And then on a deeper level completely connected. The the issue about fear earlier, is these things only become problematic if you take them real if you take them to be so solid. So earlier I said they're real, they're real in the sense that the phenomena is arising. But just like with ego, just like with fear, these are just energetics these are just displays in the mind that only become problematic if we reify them if we solidify them so we can still take them seriously. But we don't have to take them literally that's a mistake. And you will discover that the more you solidify Oh my grief is so solid my desperation is so solid my suffering is so solid, you will suffer in direct proportion to that. So, this were on an A more absolute level, bandwidth of applicability, the teachings on emptiness are everything. And so on one level theoretically, emptiness can handle everything you just have to see through whatever is arising. Easier said than done. So what I do is I check to juxtapose both dimensions of approach while the absolute work with the empty nature of anything arises everything see it as illusory see it as a dream seed as a play the mind absolutely positively. That's the core, emptiness cannot harm emptiness is that as it says in the Tibetan Book of the Dead, right? And then supplement that with all the relative means all the tons of very skillful therapists and others who can really help you work with this. So I mean, these questions are huge today. And so it's tricky for me when these questions are so rich, to try to give soundbite answers that are some benefit, but that's what comes to mind. And if you want to follow up with any of this, I'm more than happy to take it in a particular direction. But these are really really big, beautiful questions. So hopefully that's helpful. Okay. All right. So we got to head. Hey, Ted. come on board my friend. How was your retreat?
It was it was really lovely. I survived, however.
So let me ask you this. Did you have a lot of crap coming up?
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But also a lot of joy. Absolutely. I mean, there, you know, there were there were, as my wise son says, There are high points, low points and neutral points. And I had them all. But I did I spent the majority of the time. Well, yeah, using your terminology, doing nothing but trying to do it? Well,
you know, hardest thing to do, isn't it.
But I spent a lot of time on the pure lands, mantras and sound medicine. And I'd like some guidance on the mantras that I read before I get into that, you know, with the pure lands, I've done all the retreats with you, and you and Bob and so on. And that sort of has become my core practice. Well, that's excellent. Yeah. And but for the first, you know, for all the time that I've been doing it, you can't do this without devotion. You can't do this without devotion. And, you know, my devotion was really basically admiration. But there was no devotion, no version, and I got a sense of devotion in this history.
Wow. That's, that's huge. Congratulations. But anyway,
with the mantras. And I wrote these down just so I wouldn't forget, you know, could you talk a little bit about their power and how they work? That's question number one. Hey, I have five or six primary mantras? Is the neck this is the next question. Is that enough or too many? Dr. Anita, in your interview said, you only need a one syllable. And you think particularly the ones for Amitabha. You know, the one that in your retreats, we did only day one, he sort of said, well, I like the traditional one on three. And then the pureland. The Shin was Namu, Amida Butsu. And then another one is non butson. Yep. And so what's I mean, the ami de wat he really resonates with me, maybe because I've done it the most? Yeah, you know, it is what's the difference? Or is there a difference?
Between what between AMI day where he and actual words? Oh, okay. Well, let me let me start with your first question. And then that'll help with the second question. So this is a plus another, this is a big one. This is great. Mantra is such an important topic. Such a big topic that that is, you know, Badr Jana Tantra synonym for it is secret mantra budgetary, on another words, Mantra Jana. So mantra is foundational in Tibetan Buddhism, and you also find it absolutely foundational in Hindu teachings as well. So the word literally means mind protection. And they their power comes from a number of different kind of avenues. One is, and this is helpful to, to understand in terms of like, where these mantras come from, you have to be at least on the eighth Bhumi. And some of these are terms I won't be able to unpack for everybody, but the eighth ground of the 10 grounds of awakening. So in order to actually access a mantra, you have to be pretty high level Bodhisattva, almost a Buddha. And so the great high level bodhisattvas are in Hinduism. Even pre Hinduism Brahmanism, the the Rishis the these people that had exquisite capacities of audition, healing, let me just say it was interesting, slip hearing, people that are were exquisite heroes listeners, were actually in a certain way in modern language able to hack into the vibratory code or reality. Because reality reality and this is this is where this stuff goes. So deep. Reality is not made of matter. It's not reality is made of mind and that mind in this capacity can be reducible to sound and light. Parenthetically, when you're doing things like Diddy yoga that you're working with, what are you doing, you're working with light through visualization. You're working with sound through mantra. So what mantras do is, they tap in? They have Enter the vibratory code of reality. I mean, even even the physicists right now string theory, one of the leading descriptions of the fabric of reality, the physicists will tell you this. Now there's no particles out there. It's just a vibratory nodes. It's all the symphony of the spheres, everything is made of sound and light. And so when you're working with mantras, which themselves run across a massive spectrum, from over the counter mantras that you shared, and I can share more, there's hundreds of those two prescription strength Mantras Mantras that you only receive under Empowerments, never transmitted in public, because they're so powerful in the cities in the people who can really manipulate work with these mantras can therefore work and create miraculous effects in the environment through the power of this kind of resonance, within and without. And so when we're talking about mantra at these levels, where we're talking
basically about the, the sound of the awakened mind, and its different manifestations, and so just like there are countless deities, as you know, Buddhism as hundreds and dualism as even more, on one level, these deities are all the same. On another level, they're different refractions. They're different facets of different harmonics. There, you're joining in the radio station, the different vibratory codes in the way reality manifests. And when you're working with these mantras, not only are you working with them at these absolutely foundational, non translatable levels, that's why mantras are never translated, you don't translate them. The power comes from the sound itself, it's the acoustic power. And so this is when you're tapping into the vibratory you breaking it hacking in and tapping into the vibratory codes of reality. And you have the view again, that's why view is so important. And again, I recited like review, Ted, I've recited countless millions of mantras, literally millions. And I wish I knew now what I what I didn't know 2030 years ago when I was said, Okay, you got to do a million recitations of this mantra, I'm going okay, I'll do that. I wish I knew now what I knew them because they would have empowered my recitation would actually would have really juiced it up is like, Oh, now I get it. Now I get it. So as a musician, I love sound. I've really taken it upon myself over the last couple of years to deeply explore the nature of Montra. Because again, I want to know exactly what I'm doing and why. So when you're working with mature, you're working with the very foundations of reality, you're working with the sound of the awakened mind. And every one of these mantras, you know, you mentioned a few there are literally hundreds of others. Each one is designed to evoke a resonant form with a particular spectrum of the being spectrum with the awakened mind that you can then actualize. So on a relative more relative level, the way these things work, is they work at the level of the subtle body. The subtle body is connected to the subtle body system in Chinese medicine and oriental medicine, Ayurvedic medicine, they're like they target that body for healing. spiritual practices target that body for spiritual transformation. And so when you're engaged in mantra, what you're doing is you're you're actually working to open up the subtle body system. And that's why if you sit down and just recite, you know, home, home, home, home, home home, I mean, do you ever a couple hours, and tell me you don't feel the core of your heart center starting to open, right? Because this working with that particular chakra. So the specificities of these different mantras that are related not only to their particular deities, that particular bandwidths of the awakened mind represented in these frequencies, but they also work in the level of the subtle body to open up the subtle body system. And so one way or the other things have to open up this connects completely to the earlier questions. The reason this crap is coming up the fear, the grief, the desperation that everything that people are sharing in the questions is because you're opening meditation is habituation to openness doesn't just mean opening your mind. It also means opening your body to bidirectional process. So when you're working with Montreux, this is a tantric tool where body is as important as mind and you're using the subtle body to affect openings that was only only within the subtle body but also within the mind because there are two ends of the same spectrum. And so therefore, think of it is, you know, kind of flossing road or rooting out all your channel systems, breaking open the channels, breaking open the chakras. I mean, my some of my biggest meditation breakthrough experiences over 40 plus years of doing this when I did TM, God over 50 years ago, right? When I was given my TM mantra, it completely literally stopped my mind for the first time in my life. So mantra was a massive breakthrough experience. over 40 years ago for me, when I did my three year retreat, and I was doing Guru Yoga with Milarepa is the particular Yetta, an idea, guru. It was the recitation of his sound, his mantra, there was another colossal breakthrough for me. So I am a really a big proponent of mantra, it's incredibly powerful. Now, in terms of again, this is such a really big topic. But in terms of the difference between these and I probably have to ask you to say more about the second part of your question.
I would literally connect to recite the mantras, pun intended that you resonate with. So if you if you have a resonance with Amami day, well, Craig, that's it. If you're, if you're Japanese, and you're reciting, or number two, or whatever, Namo, Amida, butsu, then that's it for you. So that's another reason why there's different monitors. That's another reason why there's different deities, because we all have different resonant capacities, we all have things that we're literally going to kind of resonate with. So I would listen to your own intuition, your own heart, and pay attention to like, Yeah, this is this is my baby. So for me, you know, I've got four or five, that are my go twos, I do them every single day. And then I do under special occasions, if I'm if I'm doing a particular aspect, and I need like a quality to be enhanced, I will go it's like going to a prescription, I will pull out my little prescription of this particular sound. And I'll recite that mantra for this particular reason. And then of course, last thing, and then I'll pause to see if you want to take this anywhere because the topic is so rich, then you have what are called the seed syllable mantras, right? So then you have each, each chakra center on our home heart, each each chakra center in your body is associated not with an entire mantra, but with a seasonal mantra. And so those are those are even more pithy, condensed concentrations of Sonic power, acoustic power. So I'll pause and rest of this because so you can direct it where you want to because again, as you start to see the topic is so big, I didn't want to read one thing, I pulled it up. This is connected to what you said at the outset. Also the other two questions that's worth sharing. This is a wonderful verse from a meditation master. His name is good Sangha. It's the header quote, and from the book I just sent to my publisher three weeks ago, when the whole thing, and this is its inverse, but I mean, in song form it, I'll just read it, when the whole thing is just not working. everything's lined up against you. Don't try to find some way to change at all. Here are the points to make your practice is reversed the way you see it. Don't try to make it stop or to improve adverse conditions happen. When they do It's so delightful. They make a little song of sheer delight. And quote, this is really pretty advanced kind of teaching right here. The point you make a practice is really the reverse the way you see it change the way you relate to these unwanted experiences. Realize, you know they're unwanted in relationship to who they are unwanted in relationship to the ego. Don't try to make it stop or to improve know work with it, use it as a blessing at this level, these these kinds of adverse conditions. The reason they're so delightful, is because they're showing you where you're stuck. They're showing you where you need to go. So if with this kind of power of right view, doesn't matter what happens. The darker in a certain way, what does Trump say the greater the chaos, the greater the potential for sanity. But anyway, just wanted to throw that in as a sidebar, the first part of your query, so questions or comments about the mantra thing?
Yeah, no, that's very, very helpful, you know, and I had a number of really good laughs and I'm not sure if it was you who said this, or who were I heard it, but I just laughed, trying, saying, trying to figure out the monkey mind with the monkey mind. What a waste of time.
Hindsight Venice, Einstein said the same thing. He said the same thinking that got you into the same problem is not the same thinking that's gonna get you out of it.
Right. And then one last quick question. I have a number of recordings of particularly Omani pipe, neum and so on. Is playing that. Yes. There's that have any of an absolutely,
absolutely. 24/7 You know, if you've ever been to Nepal, Mary has been there. Some people listening have been there. They have the recordings around the stupa. They're playing all all the time and these mantras you should recite them around your pets. As much as you can have this this auditory, the sonic expression of the awakened mind playing either in your mind that's the protection, right? That's why it's a mind protector. Instead of having the samsaric mantras, here's the other kicker. We are always reciting mantras. Usually they come in the form of what, me me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me me. Mind Mind, mind, mind, mind, mind, mind, mind, mind, mind, mind, mind III, right? Think look at your mind. You are always reciting mantras. And whether you know it or not, you're reciting samsaric mantras, you're a loser, you're a loser. I'm a loser. I'm a loser. I'm a loser. I'm a loser. That's a little bit stronger because it has an affirmation, negative affirmation associated with it. But if you look at your mind, you're always reciting. So if you have the chance to recite with with pets, especially when they're dying, or they're aged, fantastic thing to do around in animal 10. I'm trying to think of some sources for you outside of coulby chowder his book sound medicine, which I would highly recommend which I did read. Yeah, then there's, oh, goodness, I might have to ping you with an email. There's a wonderful section on mantra. In one of the Bardo books by Lama Zopa Rinpoche, I'll have to pull up the title or go to my Bardo shelf, my library, but in this book, there's really pay me an email, I'll send you there's a wonderful, long chapter on the power of mantras and all the different types of monitors and what are called the Durand E's and all the really, you know, verse forms of these things. So
then finally, thank you very much, but the this came from one of your water fire river water beautiful, beautiful book, calm.
Welcome back, my friend. So let me get one or two from the chat column. And then I think he has got his hand up. So hello, Francesco, Francesco. So there's another event in December and the same nature mine is going to be similar material. No, this is a whole new program in Francesco in order to attend the event in Mexico printed Omar is north of Cabo have things sold out by the way, you have to have attended either the one I just did in manleigh, or the one I did last year, and pronto so this is a series that I started, where every year I'm going to probably do it in Mandla and prana. Every year we're going to do nature mind 1234 And then in order to go to the next one you have to have attended the early one because otherwise there's repeat so the one in December sold out and you have to have attended one of the earlier ones very Why not interview Pema children very I did. I did, I'll send you a note where you can find that. Okay, Karen and hypnopompic state waking up I get captions or voice over questions with a brief images that arise they feel truly authentic. Then other thoughts can come that feel conceptual and come from ego? Can you say more about that hint, the puppet state? Those are easier to remember. Yeah, so the hypnagogic hypnagogic is the space when you're going into sleep. hypnopompic literally means leading away from sleep. So it's a similar dimension of mind. But on the back end, when you're waking up in the morning or waking up from a nap. I get captions of voiceovers with brief images that arise they feel truly authentic. Yeah, I guess. I mean, let me just say this, can you say more about the hypnopompic state. Everything you do with the hypnagogic state you can do with the hypnopompic state. But there are also some advantages or limitations and strengths to each one. So in the hypnopompic state. One of the advantages to that state Karen as you can practice the the pneumonic induction a lucid dream technique, mi LD that Stephen libera is very clever. He was able to attain lucidity at well every night using the mild technique. And the wild technique is used in the hypnopompic state. So if you really want to take 100% advantage of the hypnopompic states really study the mild induction techniques for lucidity and it will really help you within lucidity from the back end. So the way to actually kind of come back into the dream from the echo side with certain this four step process. Okay. Unless you want to add anything to that, Karen, I'm not quite sure what to say about what feels authentic or inauthentic. Outside of the fact that tap into these dimensions and work with them right I am muted. I'm getting our muted right now. Hey,
there we go. I thought of this question when you were talking about ego before. And these things feel like really the gentleman and authentic and like, one the other day was going to be giving a news conference to explain with the caption, what am I forgetting? And then the answer was gap space open. And then the voice after that said, there has to be a gap with alert awareness, not just spaced out space. Nice. That's really nice. Yeah, that's perfect. So I think those are really a lot of fun. And they're, they're close enough to the end of the night that I can remember them. They're in that last, you know, up and down rim, close to that last part.
Those are they're really fertile areas where you're again, liminality. It's a liminal state threshold, right? You're not awake. And obviously, it's like a Bardo state. You control I do this all the time. You can kind of in Salvador Dali, Einstein, actually devised techniques for this sort of thing, where they were dropping it out asleep, and and honestly, even out asleep, intentionally, as a way to work with these images coming up, and then they find them then they'd actually cultivate them into artwork or invention ideas. And so this is that transparent, translucent dimension, plasma mind, where all sorts of creative insights, all kinds of really cool things can happen. And with our increased awareness and lucidity, we can develop a really granular and heightened appreciation of what's actually taking place there. The other thing that's really, really special about the liminal space that you actually won't find in the other for doctoral meditations. And this is also why I'm increasingly inspired to share liminal spaces hypnagogic hypnopompic with others, is because this is the most overt dimension, where on the hypnagogic end, you can watch the narrative structure, the ego, come on, done. I mean, you go into sleep, you're lying down, this, the spool is going, you've got the winds going, you're ruminating, or it's just like everything's still alive. And then you hang, hang and hang. dropping into sleep, you start to see that narrative structure come on down. That's really special. Sometimes some of the fear comes in, like the earlier statement, that's where fear can come about. Because the ego is nothing but that narrative structure, and that you're ripping pages out of that narrative, that storyline is coming apart, that can create some of the fear. And so if you understand that, you go, Oh, my God, that's where the fear is coming from, I'm ripping pages out, or it's actually happening naturally, otherwise, you'd never fall asleep. That's what insomnia is, you're seeing the narrative structure that constructs the ego come undone. That's really fantastic. On the back end, you see it the other way, coming up, you're not quite awake, oh, the engine haven't started, the pistons haven't started firing, there's just a blip of a thought there, of blip of an image there these gaps, just like you're talking about. And then eventually what happens, you start to strip those gaps, you start to caulk those gaps, you start the winds start to move. And then guess what happens? Ah, Karen comes back on the line, you know, the ego, the cell structure is back on line. And so hypnagogia kept the topic is a really beautiful way to watch the destruction and construction of the self sense. And it's really, really cool that way.
I just when I fall asleep, I just conk out. And then I never have much time as I fall asleep. But as I'm more like,
Okay, on the back end, yeah, that's
awesome. But it feels it feels like I can distinguish between which ones just arise in our more pure or authentic and then which ones are like this ego stuff.
Yes, exactly. Yes. And you'll be able, exactly, you'll be able to discern in exactly the way you're sharing real news from fake news. Yeah, you'll have a sense. You just know. It's just this Gnostic knowing nobody convince you. It's like, I just know, this is deeper. This is true, or this is real. I pay attention to that. And then just like you said, ah, when it comes to fake news, the chatter the commentary, the thunder after the lightning strike, that's what you can just ignore just hit the mute button.
Right? Yeah. Okay, thanks. Welcome. That part. Yeah, thanks.
Cool. Okay, keen and far away. Bye.
You gotta unmute. I didn't have the power to unmute myself. I will thank you for the mantra discussion. I was just going to share that. For me, it seems like that mantra that's most resonant to me keeps being revealed in the Dreamland. Not so much in in the waking state. Oh, cool. I just, I wanted to kind of relate this to you. Maybe you already answered this, but I just wanted to check in with you. I feel that in my life right now, there are two two themes. One is every now and then I experienced synchronicities that I'm very grateful for and seems like that quality of reality being the mind, as you were saying, this is revealed, that gives me tremendous joy. I would like to have more of that. And the second thing that I noticed is that certain kinds of situations seem to repeat in my life, which I maybe kind of say karmically, you know, it's just so obvious. And I, the way I relate to that is, I'm not reacting, but it's like, wow, it's just, it's becoming more obvious that it is not so much emotional choice to it. But I see that it's, it's repeating. And I'm wondering if what I wanted to check with you is, what would be the tools to kind of go beyond that kind of cycle? Or maybe I just have to keep doing what I'm doing. But I was just curious. What,
yeah, that's a good question. Yeah. I mean, that that's samsara baby. I mean, that's literally what the word means. The Korowai that is literally the cyclers the recyclers and all medicine other really Richmond. What do they say that I heard one psychologist saying is so true that 90% of the thoughts we had today are exactly the same thoughts we had yesterday, just look at your mind to see the truth of that. And so what's happening is this is just the how does the Daniel Dennett define egos a narrative center of gravity? And so you may notice, like, like, the planetary cycles that, that things just keep coming around? Oh, my gosh, I've seen this again, I've seen this again. Well, that's just, that's just what the ego does. And that's just what the storylines the ego weaves does. It's actually created in the Trungpa Rinpoche ace terms, this is what actually creates the weave of the cocoon. So he talked about the ego structure as a cocoon. And that's what creates the weave, is we're constantly weaving ourselves in with the subconscious gossip and these reiterative narratives. And so first of all, the fact that you can actually see those is fantastic. That in itself is really good news, because most people just basically, they either acquiesce to those, or they don't even recognize that they're on that same kind of merry go round, which isn't all that married, and they just get then get recycled in the same loops. And then, on a deeper level. Talk to anybody who's been around long enough, same. My friend Bruce, Jeff talks about it as a therapist is you hire the same people in your life. You hire the same people for your relationships, you hire the same people, for your friends. And so we're always hiring and then you start second, how many times do I need to do this with my with a partner or whatever, before I realized before I get the story here, right before I get the teaching. So this is just part of the exhaustion of the karmic process. And as you like you said, if you just simply hang with it, you'll start to notice that those narratives have less and less power because they're slowly being de reified because you're not feeding them. The Karma slowly becomes exhausted, they come around less frequently. They're less entertaining, they're less captivating. You become less and less interested to the point where what is it Nisargadatta Maharaj. What did he say beautifully, it is disinterestedness, that liberates, keeps coming up, keeps coming up, keeps coming up. If you let it come up and let it go, let it come up, let it go. What happens it purifies, the energy is exhausted, and then eventually why it's gone. Deliberate, deliberate. So the way to do this is through spiritual practice, generally. And then if you want to accelerate it, then there are other practices you can do a little bit more specifically, to try to work with it but fundamentally meditation becoming aware of these loops is habit loops. Basically, they run our lives, man. I mean, these habit leaves run our lives. And so when you start to see them, you can establish a relationship to them, don't pay attention to them. That's what to accept. What do we reject, reject, that don't pay attention to it celebrates and you'll find out less frequent, less intense. They don't last as long they come around instead of being like a whole lifetime. You know, it's a week, it's a month, a month, a week, a day. And then I'll send us just a moment. There it is. And then usually, at that point, it's just, it's been purified. So this is where a whole notion of SOPA when I did my theory retreat, I did it a place called SOPA, choeling. Dharma place of endurance, patience, forbearance, where you're just generosity, discipline, patience, and the power meters, you just patient. You let it exhausted, and you have a smile. You just go Oh, shit, man. There it is again. Right? And you laugh at it. Oh, oh my god. There it is, again, Boy, that's a deep groove. Man. I really cut a deep groove with that, right? So you talk a lot, it comes around again, and you laugh at it again. And eventually it levels out. relate with equanimity to it, and it's gone.
Thank you so much. Okay. Always good
questions. All right. Anything else before we close out for today? I think you got everything. I got everything that makes me happy. Oh, no, I'm sorry. There was one more that came in from Barry. Oh. Oh, yep. Yeah, he's sending you to a link that answers that question. Yeah. Yeah, the benefits of mantras and how they work. Oh, cool. I'm not sure hold it. But a weekly. Yeah, yeah. I mean, the mantra thing, really, this is a, this is a semi big deal. Honestly. It's one of the great tools of the tantric traditions, that when, when I finally gained a deeper appreciation of the power of sound, the power mantra, and the end is the musician like, this is real music. This is deep music. I came to realize that well, there's a lot here. So for those who who are so inclined to resonate with this sort of thing. Again, there's a reason monitor Jana is the apex of the teachings, it's really powerful stuff, and they can really, really help you. So to whatever extent it does resonate with you work with the acoustic sounds of reality. So nice to see everybody unless there's a last thing what we can do is, remember Bob Thurman says dedicate the merit to good thing to whatever extent gather everything we've done that have been at any value, send it out to all sentient beings. So we don't keep it the only way to keep merit is to give it away. I love it. Fantastic. So we give it away for the benefit of all sentient beings. We have the usual sequence of things happening in a nightclub i didn't pick this earlier. Got the book book study group. Next week, the meditation group. The usual thing is there but if you want to turn your cameras on and unmute yourself, we can do this little geeky group hug at the end which is always kind of fun. Otherwise I'll see you guys back here in a couple weeks bye guys I
find sweet reporting stuff stopped Oh, don't touch your face on zoom.