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SONIC Northwestern28min

Mary Beth Oliver

00:02

ICA presents: Hello and welcome to the Ask Us Anything podcast brought to you by the International Communication Association. My name is Mary Beth Oliver. I'm the current president of the ICA and a professor of Media Studies at Penn State University. This is the first installment of Ask Us Anything, where we talk about issues that face us as academics, as students, as scholars and as mentors. For our first episode, I've invited four guest speakers to join me in discussing our first topic: networking. So now we'll briefly introduce ourselves.

Arienne Ferchaud

00:41

Hello, my name is Arienne Ferchaud. I'm an assistant professor in the School of Communication at Florida State. So, still early career, but I've been a member of ICA since 2014. So, I've met lots of people and have done my share of networking. So, excited to be here.

Minjie Li

01:00

Hi, my name is Minjie Li. I am an assistant professor from the University of Tampa. I research multicultural advertising brand activism and media diversity. And I am an early career like Arienne. I'm an early career junior professor – you know, also done my share of networking. There are good stories and bad stories. Just wanted to be here to share that with everyone here. Hope it's helpful.

Minjie Li

01:11

I want to get back to that bad story, because these are the kinds of things that we need to hear.

Minjie Li

01:30

Oh, I have tons!

Angharad Valdivia

01:34

I'm Angharad Valdivia. I am a Research Professor at the Institute of Communications Research at the University of Illinois. And I'm also the chair of the Department of Latina and Latino Studies. I have a long term engagement with ICA since I was a grad student, and I have tried to network so hopefully I have some helpful things to say.

Jessica Piotrowski

01:55

Hi everyone! I am Jess Piotrowski. I am an Associate Professor at the University of Amsterdam. So I'm part of the Amsterdam School of Communication research. I am the director of the Graduate School for Communication here and I'm also the Director of the Center for Research on Children and Adolescents in the Media. And it's my research on kids in media that I'm most connected to with ICA. I was a former chair of the CAM division of ICA and I have been around ICA for – I was trying to do the count – I can't even tell how many years now. So from my very, very early days of graduate school years ago, I was involved with that. And I sort of worked my way through, so I think I'm probably called mid-career by some now but I like to hold on to my youth.

Mary Beth Oliver

02:33

So I'm going to get the ball rolling. We're looking for our panelists to ask us the questions, but I'll start first. And one thing is I'm not even really sure what networking is. I mean, I'll be honest with you like, what does that word mean? But even within this broad sort of understanding of connections between academics, in this case, what are some ways that it's influenced your career? If it has? Yeah, so I'll just go ahead and start with me. It actually forged the way for collaboration in ways that I had no idea would be possible. When I was in grad school, it wasn't really something that was discussed. And then went networking with a dear friend and collaborator named Anne Bartsch, that one thing spread to other connections – and she's in Germany – within Germany. You know, and it just spread out from there. And those were really turned into working collaborations on projects, where we produced papers and research together. And that has been invaluable, because not only is it like a good friend, but it's a really productive thing, too.

Jessica Piotrowski

03:57

Sometimes you just have a really nice person to see at your next conference. And it's nice for that, too. But people who are newer to ICA may not know but the Children, Adolescents and Media Division was not always around. And when I was pursuing my PhD at the time, one of my mentors was Amy Jordan, those of you might know our former ICA president. And Amy is still my person in this world. And I was completely nervous when she invited me to go to the first conference in Boston. I had absolutely no idea what a conference was. I also bought an overpriced suit thinking that's what you did. And I remember going and CAM didn't exist yet. And she said to me, “Who do you want to meet?” And I remember that question. Thinking, “I can meet someone here?” She's like, “Who do you want to meet?” And I had just finished reading an article by Patti Valkenburg. And I thought, “Will Patti be there? Will Professor Valkenburg be there?” And she said, “Oh, absolutely.” And when we went to Boston, she introduced me to Patti and I – at the time – I was shaking like a leaf and my hands were sweaty, and I was so nervous to meet this person who I’d been reading all of this work. And Patti said to me, “You know, I'm thinking that we should put a proposal together to make CAM a division, would you be interested to talk about this?” I thought, “Oh my gosh, this is like this amazing scholar talking to me. And actually valuing my thoughts as a junior scholar.” Low and longtime, like as it goes around, I help with the proposal, eventually ICA approves the division. We got to know Patti, more and more, and at some point, ASCORP had a position open here. I don't think all networking leads to such a beautiful serendipitous moment. Many offices have just given me a buddy in the coffee line at ICA as well. But it took one person to see me and just say “Who would you like to meet?” And that's what networking was for me.

Mary Beth Oliver

05:42

A great story. I mean, think about who you want to meet and make that happen.

Jessica Piotrowski

05:47

And that's like, what I believe like the pay it forward motion of – the beauty of academia – is being able to say, “Let's go to a reception. And let me introduce you to this person.” And I think that that starting point is one of the most powerful things we do in an academic network.

Mary Beth Oliver

06:01

That’s great.

Arienne Ferchaud

06:02

I have a story similar, I would say. This networking didn't happen at ICA per se but it happened regardless, and I still consider it a networking opportunity. And so my advisor happens to be Mary Beth. And while I was in graduate school, she was working on this pretty sizable grant from the Templeton Foundation with Art Rainey, who is now my co-worker & colleague at Florida State. And I got the opportunity to meet him and we had lunch with him. And it was kind of, you know, just an opportunity to meet and chat with someone who I had heard lots about, but had never at that point met. Those kinds of things can happen, where if you meet people, and not just get to know them, but also have them getting to know your work. Another thing to think about when you're on the job market is like, would somebody like to have you as a colleague, etc, etc. I think that all of that goes a long way. And I know when I was on the market, it was just like, every little bit helps, you know. My very first conference was ICA in Seattle in 2014 and I met a bunch of people. We got on a boat and went to a small island off Seattle, with a bunch of people I had just met. And like those people are still people that, every time I'm at a conference, I hit them up. And even though I might not have collaborated with them, or don't work with them, you know, it's kind of an interpersonal connection. And then the last thing I will also say is that networking when you are on the tenure track is hugely important for going up for tenure, because people have to write letters for you. I mean you're not allowed to ask them, “Hey, you know, would you write a letter for me?” But if they know who you are, and know the kind of work you've done, I mean, I think the chances that they will write you a letter and a positive one at that is a lot higher.

Jessica Piotrowski

08:08

Yeah, I think that's absolutely true. I would say that that's probably very true in the American context. But I think it's more generally knowing the academic space you're in and knowing where you're networking helps you in all of your different spaces. So for example, I find it also just as helpful when I'm trying to develop a new course and I can ask a bunch of people who teach something similar and say, “Oh, has anybody else figured out how to do this assignment?’ Or when I'm going to be going to another country because I've been invited to speak for a day. And I think, “Oh, is there a buddy there where I could hang out for two or three days?” So I think there's all different ways that it helps you. If you're in university, if you stay in that space, after you're finished your PhD, and you're in there, what networking looks like, is also I think, very culturally relevant and how you use it is very much culturally dependent.

Minjie Li

08:54

Yeah. I agree. And also, you know, I think in those connections you're making an appearance, you're making yourself known. And yes, you might not get a job, you might feel frustrated, but you plant a seed in people's heads and sometimes those connections might blossom in various ways that you don't know, right? As a junior faculty member, I think networking is very important in terms of building good external rapports to help you navigate tenure and promotion experiences. That being said, I really think when you approach networking, it's not just climbing the ladder, you know, get to know famous and senior people, but also get to know people of your ranks, your shared experiences. Do not have this like scarcity mentality that you are competing against each other. You help each other in the process, and also, uplift each other. I think that's important. That's what networking means to me as a junior faculty member.

Angharad Valdivia

09:46

I’m going to talk about networking from being a senior faculty member. My whole goal in networking is to introduce diverse junior scholars to the field, because the field remains so incredibly white. And the field still references, primarily white people. The field still places people in positions of authority and power that are normative culture people. And so I am trying to diversify the professoriate. That has been my goal all along. And so when I go to a conference, I want to make sure that all of my students are being introduced around to each other, and to people in the field. When people ask me for panel participants, I'm trying to network with diverse scholars, whether they be my same rank, whether they be associate professors, whether they be assistant professors, or whether they be upcoming graduate students. I am always flabbergasted at the kind of underrepresentation that still continues to pervade our field. And so I do want to introduce my students and their incredible work in terms of, you know, every single division in the field, and I always tell – especially junior scholars – that when you're networking, you have to assume that everybody you meet is a full professor and treat them with that respect. Because what happens is, again, the racialized politics – not just of our field – is that when people see a person of color, they assume they are a graduate student. And they treat them as such, and they address them as such. And so I teach my mentees to treat everybody like a full professor. Nobody's going to get upset if you mistake a graduate student for a full professor. But a full professor will get upset if you think they’re a grad student. And that still happens to me. People still treat me and think “Oh are you a grad student?” Just because you're Latina, it gets you stuck in the grad student category. So that's like a tip. But also, my mission is to diversify the professoriate. And I do my networking towards that goal.

Jessica Piotrowski

11:50

I appreciate that so much. And I'm actually curious from the attendees in the group, how other attendees maybe define networking, because I hear a couple different examples of networking. And one thing I didn't hear yet, is also the networking we do if you're doing research, if you are a researcher, not only within the academy, but networking outside of the academy, too. So for example, I find that as a scholar myself, I'm trying to understand how the youth media space is influencing young people. But the scholars I'm working with are not the ones creating the youth media space, right? It's the companies, its products, its organizations. And actually, so part of my networking is also outside of that also to share what we're learning from science to think of, really how I can validate or valorize my scholarship, but also to learn from it. So I see that as networking too, but I'm wondering if anybody else has ideas on how they define networking and all these different examples.

Mary Beth Oliver

12:37

Yeah, so that's a good question, how to define it. But I want to get back also to something Minjie you said and I think I love this point. And it was about lateral networking, you know, and we always see it as like, ‘Oh, I want to meet that person or this person.” And that's not necessarily – I mean, that's great. But there are a lot of really younger people who are at your same career, who are eager and energetic and also interested in reaching out. Here’s another question. COVID has made life difficult in terms of networking, for sure. And on so many levels. But when you're thinking about, you know, you're at a conference, if you're by yourself, you know, and your advisor isn't there – somebody who's not there – how do you go up to people? How do you meet them?

Jessica Piotrowski

13:28

It's, yeah, it's tough. I think that, first, going up to people is difficult. And also, I think, for those of us who are more senior members, remembering that it's difficult for people on the other side I think is a big point. One thing I've done is a lot of divisions now at ICA have receptions. And while they all have a reception of some sort, but more and more of them have made it a point to have done so – for example, Nancy Jennings, I think she's one of our attendees today. In her role at CAM, she's really been facilitating these mentorship and research escalator sessions, where you're paired with sort of a senior scholar and get to talk with them. And any of those opportunities where you can begin taking advantage of a lot of the opportunities that ICA has started to do. I think we had like an ICA hashtag going on on Twitter, where we were taking individual meetings just like anybody who wanted to chat. I know a lot of the divisions now have the receptions, they come up to people and they make it a point. And they even build in some sort of mentorship escalator sessions. And then the Blue Sky sessions I think are one of the most underutilized but awesome spaces we have. Because everybody with a shared interest is at a table and it's small. And it breaks down that first going up to someone because everybody's bringing something to it. So we often miss the Blue Sky’s because they're not in our division, right? But if you're interested in something, and you're like, “Oh, I want to talk with people.” There's a range of people at the table and all of those spaces. So looking for mentorship opportunities in your division, going to some of the smaller things that are offered by ICA that we often miss, I think are two really key areas to do it as well.

Arienne Ferchaud

14:57

I think I would also add that sometimes it's nice to meet people kind of divorced from the conference in a way. But if you can, or even if you can't, you know, finding sort of those spaces that are outside this sort of formal workspace, if you will, where it's a little bit more relaxing is always nice. And the people in your panel can be a good place to start, because if the panel is put together well or works out properly, you know – you never know how the panels exactly will go – but, you know, it's going to be people that on some level, have some shared interest research wise. And the worst they could do is say no.

Jessica Piotrowski

15:42

So we're thinking, first of ICA, there's lots of other spaces, but I noticed that a lot of my students often think that a poster presentation is a bad thing. I'm like, “No, no, no posters are so awesome.”

Arienne Ferchaud

15:53

I love posters.

Jessica Piotrowski

15:54

I'm actually a general introvert and I perform extraversion. And like, sometimes all of the big receptions and things I kind of want to go hide, but at the poster, it's sort of one person at a time coming and talking to you. And it's somebody who was interested in what you were doing. And so don't necessarily look down at some of these. I think sometimes we have a misinterpretation of how great they can be. So I think that's another space, too.

Minjie Li

16:15

Yeah, I completely agree with what Arienne and Jessica just said, you know, the poster session. Also like for the children's media, they have the escalation, the mentor-mentee pairing, speed dating kind of thing, right? I think those are, those are really great, incredibly intimate, one on one interactions that you don't have in the traditional panel session. So just take advantage of those mentorship program that ICA and also different formats of ICA provide because I think ICA is one of those companies that’s really, really strived to create opportunities to close the gap, right? So take advantage of those opportunities. I think at the end of the day, just know why you are there, right?

Arienne Ferchaud

16:52

Alyssa mentioned emailing people after their session. Emailing people is, I think, like, if I get an email from someone that wants to talk more about my work or whatever, I get excited, because one, it's usually a little bit after the conference. So you're like, “Oh, that's nice.” You know, but also, it gives you a space where you might feel a little bit more comfortable as well. So, I think that's a good point.

Mary Beth Oliver

17:17

We had a question from one of the attendees. This is from Rebecca Wald. How do you avoid feeling like “I'm not good. I'm not being good enough”. So do you know strategies that might draw a good mental line to not trigger self doubt or develop a distorted perception of work life balance.

Arienne Ferchaud

17:38

For me, the most intimidating thing in the world is walking around a conference with Mary Beth Oliver. Because she's famous, everybody knows her. And I'm just like, walking around with her. And I don't know anybody. And they're all like talking to her completely like ignoring my existence. Which, the first few times I'm like, terrified, right? So it's like, I don't know anyone. I was a brand new grad student. And Mary Beth does a great job of introducing you to people. So it is super intimidating, right? So it's like, you don't know anyone, you're brand new student. My first ICA I was a Masters student, in fact, and I'm like, “Oh my gosh, like, I don't know anybody. I'm like a garbage researcher.” I don't, you know, so you're like, very intimidated. And honestly, for me, the only thing that helped was practice. I am sort of an extroverted introvert. So I like meeting people, but I also really like being by myself. And so like forcing myself to not do that. Like my natural inclination when I go places is to like, hang out in my hotel, which will get you nowhere, as it happens. So making myself be in those spaces, even though it's uncomfortable. And then after a while, you do start to meet those people. And then once you meet a few people, it sort of snowballs. You meet more, and you meet more. And like nowadays, I mean, I feel totally fine and comfortable walking around conferences with Mary Beth. Maybe other people have better strategies. But for me, literally, the only thing was forcing myself to be in those uncomfortable spaces. And just practicing was kind of the only way for me to get over that.

Minjie Li

19:22

Yeah, yeah. And I think that that point is very important, you know, showing up and occupy or take out a space, particularly if you're from marginalized communities, like race, gender, sexuality…it's very important. You know, sometimes you're going to feel very uncomfortable. You don't see people like you on the table. But I think that it's very, very important for you to make yourself known. I think that's the way for you to accumulate confidence, right? And also, just knowing that networking – it's not just a one time thing, if you don't feel comfortable the first time. And if you're showing up often enough, people will know you, right? If you're showing enough people in the field – in the space – we know you, right? I think one thing is to not think about you know, networking, as this one time thing, you know, be confident in showing up and over time, there will be a solution down the road.

Angharad Valdivia

20:18

I literally just give a lecture on that. It's just one of my unfavorite things because I really think it's a very unhelpful concept. We all belong here. We all earned our place here. To step into the subjectivity of imposter syndrome is, it is an invitation to step into subjectivity that we really should not accept. That is just not an invitation, any of us need to accept. All of us belong here. And anybody that brings it up is certainly not a helpful person to network with. Because we should be helping each other by first of all telling each other, we belong here, we have every right to be here. We're here because we belong here. And we deserve to be here. We did our work, we all belong here. We've gone through very, very stringent processes to get here. And so I really recommend to all of my mentees and people that I network with, the first thing I say is like, “Here we are, we belong here. Let's hit the ground.” You know what I mean?

Jessica Piotrowski

21:21

I would say I have two things, one, I was hearing Arienne’s story. And I was thinking to myself, for the senior scholars who are joining us today, we should do better. And this is not criticizing any one of us. It's to all of us, right? Because sometimes when we are in – we're talking about the conference, because all of us are ICA members so that's our joint identity in this particular space right now – but I hear you say that and I'm sure that I've done that. I'm sure I've walked up and saw Mary Beth and talked directly to her and didn't actually see the person next to you. And it was because we were running between and I could justify it 100 times over. But it was wrong. Actually, that's where I am in that space. Like, that's how I feel. And I think that all of us who are senior here too, when we hopefully get to see us together in human forms again some day, maybe one of the things we can try remembering is how much we lost over the past year and a half and take two more seconds to say, “And this is my student who's with me right now.” Just because we open those dialogues, if nothing more, to acknowledge our own humanity next to each other. So one, I personally will do better on that. And I think anybody else who's joining, that's something we can all work on. I'm 100% certain I've been the person that did that and I can do better. And so I think honestly in these sorts of spaces where we say that helps a ton to help us maximize the hallway conversation. Starbucks lines are very powerful for networking.

Mary Beth Oliver

22:37

Yeah. So what can you do when your mentors aren't from Comm Science? Or aren’t in Comm? How do you make it happen a bit more on your own? Proactivity, forcing yourself into uncomfortable spaces like Arienne said? Yeah, I think it's possible. That’s such a great question. And we've been kind of talking about it, like, you have to go up to a person. But, you know, honestly, I would say that getting involved on committees is a huge one. I think there are so many activities that are non-ICA or non-conference related. If your program is having some sort of job search, go to those job talks. If you have invited scholars, go to those. I know in my program, we're lucky enough to, you know, have graduate students come to dinner with the speakers and stuff like that. And that's like a huge way. And so even if they don't get the job, they're gonna get a job somewhere else, and you'll see them there. So taking advantage of every opportunity that you can, I think.

Jessica Piotrowski

23:54

Pay attention in your home universities. You know, the number of times we host scholars that come out here, and they come out and we host them and we say we're going to have them available all day for 15 minute coffee hours, you can join them and talk. And so many people in my own community, our graduate students think, “Oh, I don't have enough to ask about. I don't have something big enough to talk about. I don't warrant this person's time.” You do. You should. Please join. The human experience is learning from each other and learning who we are. So the small things in your home departments can be a great space and, bigger than that, I have been working at ICA and served as officer in so many different ways for so many years. And the one thing I know to be true is that I've never worked with an officer who did not care about this conference and its people.

Mary Beth Oliver

24:38

I wanted to acknowledge a couple of things. One, and I apologize if I'm not pronouncing your name correctly, but Rosia was talking about links for people from low income families or countries. You know, if you can please email me and we can talk about your situation. I think that's a really important one. And Keirsey asked, “What about attendees who don't feel confident about attending if you don't feel confident communicating in English?” And I just have to say, I personally feel, and I think I represent ICA’s membership, don't worry about that at all. Because that's part of being an international conference. We want to celebrate, and really encourage people from communities where English isn't the native language. Yeah. One last thing. I'm going to make a commitment. This is based on what Jess was saying, I can do better. And I've been trying to do this. And maybe you can say something that you are going to try to do. And this is my goal is like, if somebody is talking to me, I see you. And so that's a commitment. I mean, sure, there are times when you are rushing off to a panel, and you have to say “I would love to stay here”. But I think we owe each other the dignity of really hearing and looking at the person when they come up and they want to network. So that's my promise. Any other promises?

Jessica Piotrowski

26:10

I promise this, whoever I'm standing with whenever I'm bringing some of my new PhD students this year to ICA, I will make sure that you are not forgotten when I'm standing there talking to someone else, too. Because for me, I realized this is supposed to be supporting to everyone else. But I take this away so seriously. Like, I find this such a powerful statement that these things matter so much. And it's easy to forget, and I'm going to do better.

Arienne Ferchaud

26:34

I think for me, I see like people like Mary Beth and other people that I've met modeling great behavior that I want to emulate like trying to help out graduate students whenever possible, even if it's just taking them to dinner, so that they can afford to eat. Because conferences are really expensive. Your university may or may not have money to support you. And I mean, that's not a great mental space to be in. So even if it's something simple, like buying them coffee or buying them dinner, but also not leaving them on an island when I'm at a conference. I think now that I am in a position where I am a faculty member, even though I'm still a junior, I'm certainly more senior than a graduate student. And remembering what it was like to be a graduate student and helping them to network because it can be really tough when you're there by yourself.

Jessica Piotrowski

27:36

Especially our COVID PhDs.

Arienne Ferchaud

27:39

Yeah, so they might have never been able to go.

Jessica Piotrowski

27:42

Yeah, especially that group.

Mary Beth Oliver

27:44

All right, we can go on forever. And I don't know, I've got all warm fuzzies here talking to you. This was really enriching and I can't tell you how much I appreciate this. Thank you for taking the time. Thanks to all of you. And yeah, I look forward to picking up new issues as we go along with the series. So thanks all, and have a good week! Ask Us Anything is a production of the International Communication Association Podcast Network. Our producer is Maria Caamaño. Our Production Coordinator is Nick Song. Our Executive Producer is Aldo Diaz Caballero. The theme music is by Volodymyr Piddubnyk. Please check the show notes in the episode description to learn more about me, my guests, and the ICA. Thanks for listening.

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