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Hi, my name is George Abraham and welcome to Eyeway Conversations. My guest today is Sachin Porwal, a law student from NALSAR in Hyderabad. Welcome, Sachin!
Hi, thanks, George sir.
So Sachin, what prompted you to take up law as your discipline?
From class 6 to 10, I studied in a Hindi-medium Rajasthan state board government school. And it was a special school for the blind. So there everyone was into government jobs, teachers, banking, music teachers to be very specific. And I was like, no, I don't want to do all that. I want something more from my life. One day, one of my teacher asked me that, what do you want to become in life? So I just randomly I don't know from where that thought came from, I just said lawyer, and he was very interested to hear new replies. So he told me about legal advisors and corporate lawyers. And also he told me that blind people cannot become advocates and judges, but okay. After that, all the time, whenever somebody asked me what I want to become, I used to say lawyer. Then I randomly searched the internet on how to become a lawyer in India. I got to know about CLAT, BA LLB program. I got to know about national law universities. But the real interest came when the application was required after completing my class 10, I wanted to switch boards and mediums, so I wanted to join a private school, but they were denying admission just because of my visual impairment. So I showed them article 15, although it was a private school, but still, I don't know, I was in class 10 back then. So I showed them the copy of article 15 by highlighting certain things. I told them about some sections of our RPWD act. And I also took help from Eyeway, we sent them notices. And so from there, I got to know, okay, we have rights and if we are aware about our rights, nobody can infringe our rights. So this is how I got interested.
So your interest in law began with advocacy for your own self?
Yes, yes. And I got to know, okay, if I know my rights, nobody can exploit my rights, and I can even fight for others' rights.
Getting into law school is becoming very competitive. There is a national exam which we called CLAT. How did you prepare for CLAT and what was your experience during this exam? And what was the admission process that you went through?
So CLAT is a Common Law Admission Test, it's for all those 22 or 23 national law universities. And this is a MCQ based paper, but in 2019, they changed the paper pattern. So now it's all comprehension based exam. And it's very much English focused exam. So if you don't know English, if your English is not very good, you cannot clear the exam. And it's a two hour paper and there are five sections- English, critical reasoning, legal reasoning, current affairs and quantitative techniques. And you know, you need to prepare for this exam, although the consortium says that this is an aptitude test, and you don't need to study for that, all that. Whatever you have studied till 12th will come all that but it's not very true. You need to prepare for this exam, and it's all comprehension based exam. And computers are still not allowed with that, we are still trying to convince the consortium to allow the use of screen readers, but till now no success. So currently, the pattern is like they will allow a scribe, one step junior to you, and the scribe will read the whole paragraph of comprehension. And unlike the school paragraphs, the answers are not there in the paragraphs. So you need to like check the options and prepare for that. And for that you have to take a coaching. Like I took the coaching. And the coaching was also, you know, it was in 2020 and 21. So they used to share the screen, show the comprehension on the screen and asked to read and then reply in the comment box. So it was very difficult for me. But I got some volunteers and the preparation was not easy at all. But still, it was manageable. I got really nice scribe who used to give me time, we used to practice, we used to give mock tests. And yeah, this is how I cleared it. And even though this is a national exam, still awareness is not there. Even on the CLAT center, I did not get much assistance that I was requiring. But still yeah, I managed to clear it.
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Was NALSAR your first choice or you wanted to go somewhere else?
Yeah, honestly, it was on my second preference because like NALSAR is best university according to some rankings. And according to some rankings, it's on number 2. So like my coaching and everybody said that NLS Bangalore, which is the oldest national law university that comes number one. So I put that in first preference and NALSAR was on second preference. But, you know when I first searched about how to become a lawyer in India, so that time NALSAR came the first result, and I was watching a lot of videos of NALSAR. So maybe that manifested and I'm in NALSAR, and the culture of NALSAR is also very nice. Like I really enjoy being there. It's been a semester I spent there.
So what is the kind of process that goes through in nalsar in the classroom and outside? Is there intentional attempt at making things accessible for you, or you have to ask for support?
Yeah, so in those matters, NALSAR has taken a forward step front, like they are really into accessibility and all, like on my first day was there, so I met the Vice Chancellor, he told me that don't worry, you are in the best university in the country and we are spending around three crores for the accessibility thing. There was some audit happening. So they had the ramps and all already but still they are installing those tactile tiles, I don't know what that is called and we have an accessibility lab where devices with screen readers are there and camera is there to convert and do OCR things. There is a braille printer, you can print your stuff in Braille. And teachers and all they also ask how they can accommodate us and if we need any like large text or anything and also there is a PwD sub regulations committee under the student body. So, we are drafting an SOP which will be applicable on the all university all over. The thing is that they asked us about what we want and whatever is there, let's say for exams are concerned. So, they are like if you want scribe, we can give scribe. If you want extra time, we can give extra time. If you want to give it through computer, we can do that. So everything is available.
You lost your eyesight in class six. What was the reason or what was the cause of this loss of sight? And what was the transition like?
So it was due to RP. And the vision loss was sudden, like it was happening gradually, but we did not realize and we could not identify. And the transition was that I was studying in English medium school back then from my nursery to class six. And my current school they denied. They were like how can we teach and we don't know like that. And we were also not aware about anything and it was pre RPWD Act of 2016. So we were not aware of anything. We were not also not aware about special schools, nothing was there. We wasted around one and a half year. I was also not willing to do anything. I was also hopeful that okay, treatment is going on, something or the other thing will work out. But nothing really worked out. And then we got to know about a special school and we went there. And it was a Hindi medium school. And I was like, no, no, I don't want to study in a Hindi medium school. How will I like learn all those things? Because I have studied in an English medium school. I don't know how to do that. And then my mom really forced me and motivated me that no, without education, nothing can happen. So you will have to study and we cannot give a pause to study like that. And already 1.5 years has been wasted. So my mom used to come with me in the school, she used to stay there. The transition was very difficult. I have been to this transition two times. One was like from English to Hindi and another was again, Hindi to English after my 10th.
So why did you decide to switch back to English?
Because in my 9th class, I was sure that I wanted to study in a national law university. I wanted to clear CLAT, and CLAT is an English exam all together. And also the study of this five years BA LLB program, this also happens entirely in English. So I was like, I will have to anyways, transit after my class 12th, so better, I will do it in 11th itself. And also, I wanted some subjects that were not available in my school. So that's why I had to change it.
When you wanted to get back from the blind school to an English medium CBSE school, were there challenges there, or it was a smooth move?
No, no, it was not at all smooth in the beginning. I was first of all, contacting every school that was offering the subjects that I wanted. And there were very less schools and a lot of schools were having these compulsory subjects that you will have to study this and this, but I didn't want to study history and sociology. And those were there in a lot of schools. So what finally I got to know one school that I wanted to take admission at. But then they were denying that just because of my visual impairment, they were like how will we teach and we don't have any special teachers. And they were also not talking to me directly also and were denying me admission. So I, first of all, showed them the highlighted part of article 15. I don't know why I did that. But I still did that. And then also nothing worked out. So I contacted Eyeway and Eyeway connected me with some NGOs and organizations of Jaipur. And they sent them letters, they also contacted the Disability Commissioner. And they also sent them letters and notices. So after receiving those letters and notices, the administration finally decided to talk to me. So I showed them that I have the access of screen reader, phone, laptop, daisy player. And I can use that and I don't require any special accommodations or requirements. I told them how things work like that. And they were convinced, they also asked me questions and so they got to know me. And after that, you know they saw my performance in the classes and all. So their attitudes changed.
In fact, the first time I heard about you, it was as a stand up comedian. So what is the stand up comedy story? How did you get interested in it and how did you get started?
So it was a very random thing that happened. So there's this university in Udaipur, they were celebrating their I think some 50 years or 60 years, I don't remember it now. And they called some of us from the blind school to be part of the event. And some of my friends were singing, some of them were reciting poem. Some of them were dancing, and I was just sitting in the audience and I just randomly thought, okay, I should also do something. So I just asked my teacher that, can I go on the stage and tell some jokes. I used to do that previously with my friends and in close circles, like I used to clip about things and they used to laugh. So I just went up to the stage and I told some jokes for around 3-4 minutes. And I think the auditorium was filled, around 350 college students were there, and they all laughed, they all cheered, they all clapped. And I felt certain high there, and I came down. And a lot of them came, hugged me, shooked hands and they said, "are very nice stand up comedy, nice jokes" and all that. Then I came home, I searched stand up comedy, and I got to know about it that okay, it's a career and all that. Previously I used to know about comedians but stand up comedy was a new thing back then. And then I searched about it, okay, there is the thing called open mics, where you can go, like open mics are generally free where audience audiences there, you can go, you can perform there, you can basically test your jokes before the actual shows. You can try your jokes if it is funny or not. And, yeah, I used to do open mics in 2017 2018. Then I used to do shows in and around Udaipur. I was also there into organizing standup shows. I also performed and did opening acts for many stand up comedians.
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You mentioned two things here. One is the open mic. The other is the show. Is there any difference between the two?
Yes. So open mic is generally free, both for the artist and for the audience. And it's a chill scene. You can go there, you can test your jokes. Anything is welcome there. But shows on the other hand is different. Shows is like the artist is getting paid, the audience are charge tickets. And shows are different and ensures you cannot just go and tell random jokes, you need to test your jokes first, if it is funny or not, then you can go tell your jokes.
So when you do a show, do you have to write your script in advance or it's spontaneous?
No, no, for me personally is not spontaneous. I used to write the script before. And then I used to test it in open mics. And then I used to select the specific parts. And then I go and perfor. Some things are spontaneous also, but not the whole.
So these jokes, are they meant to be original jokes that you have created yourself or you are allowed to crack jokes which have been cracked by other people or jokes that have been published in magazines and newspapers. What is the protocol there?
Yeah, so standup is different in this case, that you cannot tell other's jokes. You will have to write and perform your own jokes because that's copying and it's not ethical. A lot of people still do that. But generally, you know, people are also aware about their jokes and in standup, which kind of you are telling your personal story, your personal experience, and if it is funny, so then it is more better in that sense. So we cannot copy other's jokes, we need to write and tell our jokes and when we have our own experiences, it's better.
And the other thing is, you know, I've seen a lot of stand up comedy shows, people use a lot of bad language. Is it necessary for using bad language or do you think there can be clean shows also?
It's not necessary, but a lot of artists give justification that the bad words are just for the emphasis and not in the actual literal sense. So, it depends on the audience also that which kind of audience you are performing for. So if they understand so then everything is fine, but if they are not okay with that, so yeah, that is also there. But every artist is different in that, some artists do clean comedy, some users bad words, I used to previously do clean comedy. Then I also tried using some, two three words just for the emphasis not for the literal sale. So I'm still very young in this thing. I'm exploring things, and it's not necessary.
So, now that you move to Hyderabad, have you actually started getting requests for shows in Hyderabad?
So like, I was not into the scene for around two and a half, three years. Because of COVID, CLAT and also NALSAR, like the study pressure and all that. Also like my old stuff, previously, I used to do jokes on contemporary things that were happening. So that were all irrelevant, I had to start from scratch. And I did not get much time there. I thought I will get, I though, I will do law school on five days and on Saturdays and Sundays, I will go perform. But we have projects and all assignments. So I did not get much time but during the fest, we have Rajasthani fest. I performed there and I had a good time. And from the next semester, I'm thinking to hit open mics in Hyderabad.
Is there any other passion that you have, apart from stand up comedy and law that you follow?
Technology is another passion. Reading is another passion. And I watch a lot of YouTube videos related to travel. And I recently started traveling alone. So I'm exploring that also.
So traveling alone now that you started, what's the experience been like?
As I said that I lost my vision at a later stage. So I never used white cane. I was always dependent on human assistance, and I was like, I don't want to use that white cane. Typical blind people use that and I'm not that so I was not using a white cane till 12th. I used to keep it in my bag that someday if nobody will be there, I will use it but that never happened. And then I moved to Hyderabad and then what happened was , as I'm a late blind, if somebody looks at my eyes, they cannot identify that I'm a blind person. They used to wave, smile at me and I for the obvious reasons did not reply. So they thought I'm an arrogant person or maybe I'm an introvert. So then I started carrying the white cane and then they got to know that's the thing. And also when some days, when nobody was there to take me from place A to B, I started using that and also I travel alone on my own from Hyderabad to Udaipur, and the experience was nice and my attitude has has changed.
Well, Sachin, it has been a pleasure talking to you and as you continue at the law school, I wish you the very best and one day we pray and hope that you are a practicing lawyer or a practicing judge. Wish you the very best.
Thank you. Thank you so much.
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