Hello, and welcome to another episode of Coffee and code. I'm your host, Ashley Coffey. And today I'm excited to have LISI linearis on the show with us today talking about the metaverse. Lisi is a publicist to some of the biggest names and XR, a CBS survivor Castaway femme futures chair, a proud member of xr women, and all around creative futurist. I'm so excited to have LISI on the show with us today to talk about the metaverse and just how exciting this world is. But before we dive in, Lisi, do you want to tell us a little bit about yourself? And how you got here?
Um, yeah, I certainly will. That's always a loaded question. And I have so many different ways to answer that. But I've gotten better and better because I have to answer it a lot more than I care to answer it. But um, um, I got here, like a lot of stuff in life that's interesting, by luck. And by love is really the best way to put it I've been in love with, with cool technologies for as long as I could remember. And I'm combining it with entertainment, combining it creatively. And to get a community is really, really exciting. So I got here because I got lucky. I'm in love with the tech and there's a beautiful community involved with everything that's happening right
now. Absolutely. I agree. And it's interesting to see the explosion of the space just in the past few years. I definitely think COVID accelerated our timeline of jumping into this this Metaverse, which I think is a good segue for us to just dive into this conversation. But for those who are listening, and maybe don't know about the metaverse, can you take some time to kind of describe briefly what it is and why people should care about it?
Well, you know, it doesn't matter whether you care about it or not, it's here. And you know, it's just the next step and how we communicate, and the next level of what would be an internet interaction. So clearly, you know, we've gone past the, you know, selfies and the profile pics that are either a cartoon character or whatever you want it to be like, where do you go from there? Okay, well, clearly something that's animated. Okay, so a lot of the stuff that's happening in the metaverse is not, you know, hokey, pokey stuff. It's literally just the next where do you go next? It's like when movies went from black and white, or silent to talkies and color, like, naturally, there's always going to be a way to take it further. And that's what the metaverse is. It's the internet just taken further. So what happens? We start to communicate deeper. And we have financial ties, and we have more communities. And, you know, again, I have to go back to further earlier technologies because the, the, it's all there. So yeah, going back to the metaverse and why you should care. It doesn't even matter. It doesn't matter if you care or not, you know, it's going to be part of your world. It's like, you never wanted to have a Facebook account and you got a Facebook account, or you never wanted to go online and you know, you order your stuff on Amazon like it's it's an inevitable it's like Andy Warhol is plastic inevitable. The Metaverse is an inevitable,
agreed agreed. And I've seen people kind of compare this time that we're in right now. To the area where the iPhone first came on the scene, the smartphone, right, it really changed the way that we communicate with one another and created our first digital footprint of social platforms just a different way to connect. And what's really exciting to me is that so many companies are starting to buy into this as well. I mean, we've seen Gucci, so many other companies really start to create digital shopping platforms as a means for people to connect and learn about new products and be able to connect with a brand in a way that I think people are still understanding. Rather than going into a physical store, you're going into a virtual space, you're maybe interacting with clothing or interacting with music or shapes. It's just it's a new way of expressing yourself. I think that that I think that will drive another generation of creativity as we kind of recover from the pandemic and see what those next chapters are in this emerging tech realm.
Yeah, you know, it's all connected with you know, what the internet is and how it came to be. And you know, I love to go back even further and kind of Look at this time, like, you know, where were people when the first phonograph made its appearance, the first telephone, like when the first light bulb showed up in town, like, you know, even even the beginning of cinema itself, like that kind of paradigm shifting technology is, you know, everything that we're experiencing now. And there's going to be people that are yea, you know, building it, and this is the new world. And this is how we level up humanity and communication and blah, blah, blah. And then there's people that are like, Oh, hell, no, I don't even know what that is. I want anything to do with that is really freaky. I mean, like, you found those people all through the story, the first people that didn't want a phone to begin with, oh, I don't want to have that. It's like an electric leash. You know, where are those people? Now? They've got phones.
Exactly, exactly. And you touched on this a little bit earlier, but I want to circle back around to it. So I really want you to kind of expand upon your journey about diving headfirst into PR within the XR space. You've seen VR really explode. And you you've been on the scene for quite a while as compared to some other people who may just be getting their feet wet. So let's talk about your journey there into diving into PR in the XR space.
Yeah, I have to go back to my my look and love story. You know, um, I fell in love with PR doing the whole survivor press junket stuff, I was really fascinated by how, you know, CBS would put together its publicity and, you know, just kind of put you through this machine. And then like the narrative and the story that's weaved around you as a persona, you know. And I remember like sitting there in some studio somewhere going from interview to interview after you get eliminated, and you have to go through stories like 30 times in one day. And I would see the the action behind the scenes. And I thought to myself, God, when, when this is all over, I would really like to like, you know, mess around and see what I can do in this PR publicity situation. And as life would have it, I started a small firm. And my first client was a supplement from New Zealand, which was actually amazing. And so I dabbled in health and wellness for a little bit. And out of nowhere, middle of late 250s, late 2015 Going into the top of 2016, the whole cryptocurrency thing really started to get super interesting. And I just got a, an inquiry on my website. And one thing led to the other, which led to literally traveling all over the world representing crypto currencies and blockchain projects. And all the while kind of eyeing what was happening with AR and VR. And I even man, something like three years ago, I remember talking to someone that's a really popular is part of a really huge VR studio. And I remember talking to her and telling her man, we're gonna have to put all these kids together, because there will be an application for cryptocurrencies as we really evolve in VR land. And I wish I wish at the time, she really would have taken my pitch because they would have really been ahead of the game, the studio, but, you know, life is what it is. So that's what happened to make a very long story as short as possible here. Um, it was a little bit of luck. It was that intrigue to do PR, and what happens and how do you how you make a story and sell a story. It's all very, you know, I'm a performer at heart. And, you know, I love I love getting my clients to fulfill a role. Like I love it when my clients really get distilled with their public image. And they just like become this thing because it makes my life so much easier. You know, I digress here. So yeah, it was a little bit of luck. And just paying attention to the big field that is now known as XR and just paying attention kind of got me here and the PR thing just, I mean, it was really cool when I started to introduce myself to the VR people when I started to actively make my pivot. Oh, side note. I actually, my firm and I at the time actually premiered the first movie on the blockchain it was an anime about 12 minutes long. Wow. Berra in your dreams. Yeah, that's literally the first movie ever on the blockchain.
That is so freakin cool.
That's cool. That was one of those moments like Yeah, yeah. That's really when around that time honestly, I started thinking, Wow, maybe now I should like, really start seeing how I could make this turn. And, you know, whenever you try to make changes in your life, you're just kind of like, you know, here we go. For the best, you know, no matter how prepared you try to be, there's just always too many variables. But um, when I started introduce myself to the VR people, it was like I had found my tribe, Ashley, it was amazing. So I'm literally living a dream. And that's how I got here.
I love that's an amazing journey. And I think when
I answer your question, woman
I think one of your strengths is, you know, your creativity and your approach to everything that you do. And one of the beauties of you know, XR, and Metaverse and emerging tech in general is that it's constantly changing. So there's always something new to learn, which I think is really refreshing. But it takes a very special person to connect the people within the space because it can be a small community in some instances, and to see the possibilities that are there and really make them a reality. So I love your journey and to worry that you got here today because I think it's something that some of our audience members could relate to as well. But segwaying into another question. I'm curious to hear about some areas within the metaverse that you are excited about.
Well, I'm excited in the general Metaverse just the idea that we could go to a place and that place is kind of like our Hangout. And you have your stuff at that Hangout, like just the whole idea of, you know, like, one of the projects that I'm working on that I'll just tease a little bit about is is a Metaverse world, but it's a particular type of Metaverse world. And what I really enjoy is just housing your stuff, you're literally making a house in a you're making a virtual house, and you know, you'll have your secret drawers, you know, of course, you'll have your your all your goodies that you pick up all your little NF T's and you know, and you know, you're going to make like, like a like a tree house, man. I'm really excited about that, because we'll be able to get super creative, because nothing's going to get in your way. You know, if you want your Metaverse to be a disco, no one's gonna stop you. It's just yeah, you know, and it's going to be such a reflection on who we are as a person as a society. Because everyone's going to start to interact with not just the avatar, but everything that comes with the avatar, you know, you'll be able to invite people over and, you know, it's a slippery slope, because the more you start to interact, and create communities, and really pay attention to the details, you know, am I really going to build a house? Or I'm going to am I going to make like a Buckminster Fuller kind of dome like, or am I just going to float around and, you know, the more you get involved in that, the more you tend to be under. And that's kind of like, you know, when the people on the other side are saying, like, forget about it, it's Ready Player One time, we're gonna just be locked in. And, you know, there's a little bit of that and look at what we do to the phones, man, we sit and stare at our phones, I think there's definitely like that possibility that we'll strap on our goggles, and like, sit there for a very, very long time. So that those are kinks are going to be worked out as we find ourselves there. It happened in all these other technologies. You know, we found out what works and what doesn't work. And that's yeah, gangster.
It is I totally agree. And it's interesting to see the companies that are kind of racing for the next generation of AR VR goggles or headsets in contraptions that you wear. I mean, Facebook, now Mehta just did a collaboration with exotica for Ray Ban. So that's an interesting foray into kind of changing what that next step looks like.
But what's going to be gangsters when we removed the glasses all together? Yeah, that's when we'll really start to have fun because you know, everything will be very holographic, you know, the lights in your house are gonna have you know, projectors and it'll be very easy for you to touch surface and that becomes something interactive. Like that's, that's when we really are going to get over that hump of being plugged in, because you'll be able to have like a pass through and actually see what's going on in the world while interacting. So it's, we're, you know, we have one foot here and one foot there, and everyone racing to get in and, yeah, it's going to be a real tug of war. It's going to get a little messy, but there's going to be a lot of interesting things on the other side.
I agreed agreed and I feel like Facebook's rebrand Trombetta gave validation to this whole concept of the metaverse. And ever since it really has been kind of a race, a wild wild west, so to speak of who can iterate quickly, who can be creative, who can bring that next chapter of what this interaction is going to look like. So I'm really excited to see the next year or even six months of what this space is going to look like,
ah, exactly, I would I would look at the next six months for sure. Because you know, all these big players are getting in position, and they're strategizing. And you'll be able to see the execution of these plans within the next six months, because everything is moving along so so quickly.
Absolutely. And you're at the center of it all, which is really exciting.
Well, everyone's rushing to be part of it. So the center moves around a lot.
Well, that's a good segue into my next question. I'm curious, from your perspective, who do you consider to be thought leaders and driving the future of the metaverse?
Oh, my God, really? You're going to do that to me?
So many, right?
Yeah, yeah, um, you know, I love the work. I love the work that I love seeing women in the space, I have to shout out, let's let's Yes, I want to shout out to the women in this space, the women that you know, are bold enough to not just, you know, get into that sandbox with the boys, because it's predominantly a male dominant field, unfortunately. And it's wonderful to see these women get into the sandbox, and like, you know, get in with the boys and like, even, that's one of the reasons I love XR women so much we have come together, you know, we share, we highlight one another. So I think I think what's going on, as opposed to just pointing out a couple of people that are doing some gangster stuff, I really want to highlight the communities, because there's strength in numbers. And, you know, there's a lot of us that are not exactly like people, people, and they like to just kind of not talk too much, but those people are our wealth of information and, and knowledge. And when a community becomes a place of true exchange, where everyone's cool with one another. And we all have like a common idea, you find that people that you feel would not participate in another setting, are sharing, and beautiful things come of that. And so instead of just looking at one person, I really want to commend and I think some of the biggest thought leaders are the entities themselves. You know, the XR women, the femme futures, and and just those entities as a body, to me is in fact, a thought leader.
I agree. And that's a wonderful response there. And for those who are listening, if you're not familiar with XR women, definitely check out the community at XR women.com. That's actually how Lisa and I met each other, which is really exciting. But it's a global collective of women in virtual and augmented reality. We meet every Wednesday, it's a free group to participate in. And it's like Lisa mentioned, it's a collective resource and connectivity we meet in I learned for Bella in VR, or 2d. And we are represented by avatars. And it's a great representation of just the depth and breadth of the community itself.
I think I think every woman that is part of the XR women group, um, is a thought leader. You know, we have women literally, I love that you mentioned global because yes, we have women from all over the world. And yeah, I mean, Karen, Karen Alexander and Julie Smithson, just kudos for them. It was their idea. And recently, they celebrated a year anniversary. So yay, XR
women one year, really exciting. And it's been nice to see the community grow so quickly, but more importantly to see those connections and those collaborations happen from all over the world. All different backgrounds, academic, private public. It's just a really great community for people to learn from one another and not be afraid to ask those questions and really challenge Those status quos, I think I saw a recent topic about how a lot of Metaverse panels are mostly men. And XR women is doing a really good job to make sure there's diversification of voices represented in these Metaverse conversations. So I think it's important to highlight those communities because like you mentioned, they are the thought leader communities of the next generation iteration of emerging
tech. Yeah, it's really, it's, it's just I'm so proud to, to know, these ladies to show up and dance in my avatar and not let my hair loose, you know, let my hair down, you know, and just kind of, like, hang out and talk shop with the rest of the girls and the rest of the girls.
Right, on your virtual cocktail. And,
yeah, you know, I mean, it's just, it feels good, to not be alone. And, you know, many times, especially, like, when you're doing the other side of stuff, like, you know, my clients have their lives, you know, they have, you know, they're either CEOs or their co founders, so they have their babies that they're nourishing, but like, I'm on the other side, and I see them with their little babies. And, you know, it gets a little lonely. I'm not gonna lie, you know. So to be able to just chill and kick it with you guys on a Wednesday is, yeah, it feels really good.
Agreed, agreed. And I feel like ever since the pandemic kicked, and more and more people have been diving into what it's like to experience VR and attending virtual meetups, and whether it's alt space or spatial, and just having that sense of connectivity. I, I used to do I still do this sometimes, but beat Sabre parties and VR on Saturday. Yeah, bring people together. And it's just so much fun. And it feels like you're actually going to a social event, but you're in the comfort of your own home, which is fantastic.
But you're socializing? Exactly. we're social creatures. And, you know, humans need to socialize. And yeah, anything that brings technology in with socialization is fun. You know, and what how you choose to use that is up to you. But it's really lots of fun to get a bunch of people and do some multiplayer VR. Yes, absolutely. Meeting people in VR is a trip and a half. Oh, my gosh, yes. I mean, that takes like that takes online dating to another level altogether? No, because you still have you still have that privacy where you could, you know, create a persona and you could you know, catfish or be catfished or whatever. That element is still there. But you are you are having a connection with someone.
Absolutely. I remember I attended Burning Man and VR last year, and I met some really awesome people through that, that were so genuine, and didn't have a problem sharing their experience, both from a virtual perspective and from actually attending Burning Man in person. And that right, there was the catalyst that made me realize that potential of connectivity and socialising that I didn't realize was possible. So cool. Yeah, yeah. Well, at least see, I'm curious to hear about your first experience in VR. Can you talk us through kind of like, that profound moment where you realize this is a thing? This is not going away? This is awesome.
Oh, my God, I the first time, okay, I really started getting into VR in the early 80s. When, you know, there was already this talk of, you know, the information superhighway. And what that's all gonna mean, you know, the 80s were very futuristic. And so I knew about it, I you know, who sees a VR headset? I mean, in the 80s, you know, some some college lab somewhere, you know, the government maybe. So I didn't, I didn't really strap in till I was at NYU in 1994. And I had already suspected that there was going to be some revolution in cinema, because there's only so much you could do with a flat image. And I kind of got crazy yet and more you film it was like, we need to go past the flat image. What is this the world happens in 360? Why don't we make movies in 360 Like, I was I was off my rocker and so excited, because I really felt like we were on the precipice of something and unlike, you know, when the year 2000 is just coming up in the future is going to be here. So why does cinema still look like it looked like when it was first, you know, put together and it became a thing and You know, turn of the century, 100 years ago, like it was just nuts. So, um, there was a lab, which I get to that lab through a professor, that one of my professors at the time where I was telling him about this air taste script that I wanted to do like all these fly throughs, and kind of connect all these air Tej lithographs together and make a story. And I told him that I wanted to do some CGI at the time I was working with the I was working on silicon graphic terminals. Wow. Yeah. And we were working on sketch five, I think it was an studio sketch. I mean, that, I mean, talk about polygons. So.
So this guy says to me, Hey, you know, if you're really into this, you go go and check out this lady. So I went up to I want to say was the seventh floor could have been another floor. But I want to I, for some reason, I want to say, the seventh floor. And she had, you know, I don't even remember what it was. But she strapped me on. And actually, now that I think about it, I don't, I think it was some generic something or other. But in any case, she strapped me on, and it was very rudimentary, but But you know, when you have a suspicion about something, and then you just see a little bit of that, like, you don't need to see the big picture, I didn't need to see what I knew, when I first put it up, put the headset on, and everything looks super square, like, like the Dire Straits video, I want my MTV or whatever that track is. I mean, that's what VR looked like then. But if you if it didn't take much, to make the jump into what's happening now, like, anyone that was in love with VR and put on a headset, then would know that we would be arriving here, you know. Um, so that kind of confirmed all my suspicions. And then I started writing VR scripts. And I was thinking about how you're gonna have to change the way you tell a story in VR. Like, we haven't gotten there yet. But there's plenty of people investigating this. But just when we because in the beginning, when we were shooting movies, we were just recording the proscenium stage, we were basically just putting us putting what was happening on the stage of play on to film literally just recorded, and then editing started to happen, you know, you had the Lumiere brothers, and you had me view the going to the moon guy, I forget his name, but something like and you start seeing, of course, WD Griffith, all that stuff, you start seeing editing, and the audience has to be taught how to perceive a story in a different way. I mean, they if you had to teach the audience that if you see the protagonist go towards a doorknob, you know, that means are going to open that door. And that was something that was not seen before, if you were just recording what was happening on a stage, you know, you just see the live action happening, you don't understand how editing contributes to the telling of the story. So all of that has to happen again, now in VR. So you know, exploring what the narrative is, because it's clearly not going to be a straight line. And, you know, kind of re educating how how we could perceive a story. So then I started writing like funky scripts, you know, and using Tesla's 369 method to weave in different storylines that look disconnected, but they're actually part of a whole, because I mean, like, what's going to happen with VR is we are going to destroy the language barrier. And again, we're not there yet. But once we really destroy the language barrier, it's kind of going to be a little bit of a return to the silent movies, which is interesting. But I think that's when we're really going to make some major, major headway as far as the globe, really understanding each other. And getting to a place where we can stop fighting at least a little bit, come on people.
So that was great. And I'm so thankful that you helped me see the light of kind of changing that narrative, I got the pleasure of reading your script, DECA dance, which you created, and that right there really opened my eyes to the potential of changing the way that we experience entertainment in a three dimensional setting, because it was so fascinating to kind of visualize and think through those transitions. And it made me feel more connected to the storyline versus imagining it on a two dimensional screen. So there's a lot of value to what you just mentioned.
Well, that's cool, because that's really that's the end game for me, man. I love doing PR I love doing publicity. But once I really start to make decadence, a reality. I'm really, really looking forward to how it's going to manifest itself because though I will be the director of the project, it is one of those live beings. Like once decadence becomes the metaverse that it will be, you know, you will be the DJ, you will be, you know, the chick at the door that lets you in, um, you will be someone in the club that you know, goes and buys like, you know, a funky hit of something and starts becoming one with the music, you will be able to purchase some of the artwork in the VIP lounges, you will be able to have an ecosystem specific cryptocurrency where you could buy, again outfits for your you know, for your duck a dancer, or even be able to participate in the DJ list. So yeah, that's, I'm really excited about that. I'm excited about kind of throwing that out there. And seeing how, you know, our world outside is going to become very much a reflection of what happens in DECA dance, you know, because people's personalities, you know, what kind of dancer Are you? And are you going to be you know, listening for this in the song are you going to create your little crew and hang out over there and you guys meet and in DECA dance, you know, Friday nights at midnight, like, you know, I want to see how this becomes like a living organism that's just more than a 3d movie or a VR experience.
