Hey everybody. Andrew here. So we do this totally geeky thing everybody turns out their silly camera so I can see everybody.
Hello, everybody.
Nice to say hi, teaching my first live program in August. Shambhala Mountain Center, second in the series on my preparing to die track, a week long program, which is going to have a dual thing we're going to do a live stream as well, hybrid program. Hey Andy, if you get a chance you can put that in the in the. Yeah he's recovering from a COVID shot yesterday so he's a little under the weather. But if you're they're still alive and I can put up the link for the SMC thing Edie, that's great. If not, don't worry about it. I'll do that. Yeah, thank you man. So, yeah, my first live event in like 18 months. In fact, it's my only one in the States this year. So kind of excited about that. What we do here at this event, if you're new to it. We've been doing it for well over a year we started it at a kind of COVID thing is we just hang out, we get together, we talk about stuff, sometimes I do a little riff. Sometimes I just turn right to the question so we get some really good submitted questions, and then mostly it's a live q&a Where you all can come on and we can talk about whatever you want. So if you have a question you can start typing it up. Get ready to raise your hand that sort of thing but in terms of other things we're doing, releasing the Claire Johnson interview my second one with her that'll be released tomorrow. We discussed her book The Art of transforming nightmares, which is a really great book, so we had real fun doing that. I have made contact with my friend Ian Baker, to talk about hidden lands bail, that sort of thing, probably not going to do that for a couple of weeks because of his schedule. Monday, we've got the meditation thing that's still going on we're doing one more session on analytic meditation, dissecting anger and fear and things like that, using kind of like just the gift of insight meditation if you to the analytic meditation tradition. Tuesday the book study group we're doing a couple more weeks with Joe and his really lovely book, you know the Winnie the Winnie the Pooh and meditation to book, which is really a great book webinar next Wednesday and on stages of Dream Yoga I think that's coming up, and you know just that sort of thing. So, here's what I thought it would do today. I'm, I'm actually pitching this book, you've been hearing about it a little bit. I've been about to pitch this book to some agents. And so I wanted to, this is a book it's called okay I'm mindful that what exploring the wonders of mind it's a critique of the mindfulness revolution, constructive critique points out all the great great super benefits, but a lot of the unknown stuff and I've been doing some homework on this 200 200 to 500 million people around the world now meditate 35 million people in the US, meditate at least once a week. Headspace has been downloaded that app, meditation app has been downloaded more than 40 million times. They're expecting the meditation industry, weird term actually to be a two over $2 billion industry by 22. What is it the mindful.org site has 575,000 visits a month. So anyway, mindfulness is huge but it's got some pretty big limitations and so my charter in this book is to point out the limitations into, like, Okay, what's next, what now. And so part of what I do is part four of this book is about the body. And what I write about here I'll share a little bit of with you and then maybe this can give you a chance to line up some questions or maybe you have a question about what I'll share with with you about the unbelievable importance of actually bringing the body with you along the path which may sound kind of silly because we bring our bodies with us. On one level all the time but on another level, we don't, it's like James Joyce said one character you've heard the saying was cool. Mr Duffy lived a short distance from his body. What a great line. Well we are each Mr and Mrs Duffy we live with short distance from our body, and most of our life is a kind of out of body experience, where you know we're not present to our life. We're pinging around the past and future, and not really fully embodied and so this little riff section maybe a 20 day section in my book
about the unbelievable importance of working with the body and so I just wanted to share a little bit of what I was editing this morning, so. Section six, or I'm sorry, section four, the body starts with a header quote by Henry Miller, our own physical body possesses a wisdom, which we who would have the body, lack, and so this is some first section of the of the section I want to share with you. As we progress from the mindfulness revolution into the meditation revolution and that's what I'm pointing out is how mindfulness is really limited and that there's a whole array of practices beyond it sooner or later we're gonna run into the body. If we don't, we may find ourselves running into therapy, which often delivers his healing results by teaching us how to stay embodied meditation does work with the body to some extent, isn't the first of the Four Foundations of Mindfulness. Mindfulness of body, but it does not explore the depths of our soul, and the natural resources contained within. Exploring the wonders of the mind mandates that we also explore the wonders of the body. This is a famous line from the meditation master Sarah Ha, quote, There is no place of pilgrimage, as fabulous and as open as this body of mine. No place more worth exploring and quote in Zen It is said that the path is only accomplished through the body, to appreciate the importance of body work on the path we need to refine our understanding of both mind and body, the influential philosopher Rene Descartes successfully divorced mind from body with devastating consequences. He did some real damage to this guy, mathematician philosopher. And he did it basically so that he wouldn't be burned at the state by the church really as a way to send if you don't mind from body so he could go ahead and riff on his stuff without the church coming after him. It's time for a gut check on Cartesian Dualism meditation works to men the Phyllis, this philosophical fracture. Science can lead the hand in this healing or holding. So this stuff is interesting. One of the cool things about writing a book, if you've ever done it is so it's really, it's just doing the research on it. And so putting all this data together, some of which I'll share with you is to me the highlight of doing this kind of work so when we often talk about we often talk about having a gut feeling when we first meet someone, trusting our gut instinct when faced with difficult situations. The mind gut connection with which deals with the entire life of our inner tube from esophagus to anus is more than just a metaphor of this enteric nervous system is often referred to as our body's second brain, hundreds of millions of neurons connect the brain to the enteric nervous system and network is complex and abundant as a network of neurons in our spinal cord isn't that amazing. Your gut has as many neurons as your spinal cord, the brain in your head and the brain your gut are truly of one mind and in constant communication. Justin and Erica Sonnenberg microbiologist and Immunology at Stanford Medical School right, quote, is that voice in your head that is asking for a snack coming from your mind or is it emanating from the insatiable masses in your bowels recent evidence indicates that not only is our brain, aware of our gut microbes. But these bacteria influence our perception of the world, and can alter our behavior. Just as anybody who's had the munchies right. It is becoming clear that the influence of our microbiota reaches far beyond the gut to an effect to effect an aspect of biology, you would have ever predicted, our mind and quote. It's a two way street with signals streaming back and forth from head to gut and gut to head. So a couple more bits of data. This is why I'm sharing with you because it's this research is cool. Lest you think that your heart isn't into it. Scientists estimate some 40,000 neurons or sensory neurons abide in the heart, creating a cardiac neural network. Neurologists Kool Aid sugary she's the gal I interviewed a couple of weeks ago so we posted, I think that was the last interview we posted She's really cool. So this is what she says. This cardiac nervous system is comprised of independently operating intracardiac neurons, leading some researchers to characterize it as the little brain in the heart, and quote, the heart actually sends more signals to the brain and the brain does to the heart back to her, which has a significant effect on brain functioning functions such as attention perception, memory and problem solving and quote.
When heart and head are not in harmony, this actually inhibits higher cognitive functions, limiting our ability to think clearly remember things, learn reason and make effective decisions by learning to control our hearts, whether through deep breathing or meditation, we can gain mastery over our brains, and vice versa. This has scientific backing to an ancient meditation masters discovered years ago, 1000s of years ago, as embodied in the Sanskrit word Tita heart mind. So this is really interesting sidebar that both in Pali and Sanskrit mind and heart, same word. This has a lot of really interesting implications like when you're doing real mindfulness meditation is also heartfulness, and if that heartfulness isn't included in it's just a purely cognitive cerebral event that's not real mindfulness. So let's see. Yeah, two more paragraphs, I'm just gonna, cuz I want to show this and then the section will be the Heart Math Institute founded in 1991 to explore the relationship between mental, physical and emotional systems works to resolve inner conflicts between the head and the heart, bringing them into harmony the heart, brain coherence psychophysiological coherence, the more technical term for heartbreak resonance is the state of optimal, optimal function with enhanced cognitive abilities and improved emotional balance. When information is flowing properly between these systems you enter the zone flow state of optimal performance. You can generate heart, brain coherence, or inner conflict resolution between the head and the heart by breathing slowly at a 10 second rhythm so this is what I've been sharing with you, like we've been doing this on the money and I think there's studies have shown that if you do a five second in breath. Five second out breath. It actually helps to resonate so let's let's do this. This is actually a cool thing. So for the next five seconds you can count 1001 1200 Just all stopping once done so it's basically a long extension of the in breath, it's a little, it's like an elaboration of the one breath meditation that I've been referring out for like over a year, right. So for five seconds in breath. Five second outbreath their studies have shown that alone will kind of put heart, brain coherence back on line so let's do it. Ready, five seconds and five seconds out.
That's it. I use this all the time. So when I came across this data, you know I learned a one breath meditation from the mahmudullah tradition. And when I came across this data, it was like catching modern support for an ancient practice. One last paragraph. But why limit things to just two brains or even three in her study of the human brain the neuroscientist Candace pert I'm a huge fan of her, she, she died a couple of years ago she was a rock star. A psycho neuro immunologist, big fancy term for what she did, she discovered that the information processing receptors on nerve cells this is so interesting, were present on most if not all of the body's 50 trillion cells. She established that the mind is not really in the head or in the gut, but actually distributed throughout the entire body. Bruce Lipton, who I've been riffing on lately as well went a step further and showed how the cell membrane is better described as a meme. br A, I am membrane. Don't just think of just one brain sitting on top of a mindless body, or even a second brain in your gut or your heart. Think of a mindful body composed a 50 trillion little brains. In other words, a body absolutely full of mind. When a vital Tantra wasn't one of the most elevated texts and Buddhism proclaims that the wisdom abides in the body and now he has scientific backing. So anyway, that's what I was working on this morning. I just wanted to share that with you all. My dear friend, Reggie Ray. He riffs on this, a ton. He's written like five books on this stuff, there's a lot of really cool literature on this and so, you know, the bottom line is, if you don't bring your body with you along the path. In fact, in contrast, that's one of the real gifts of controversion Yana. His body is as important as mind. Oops, hold on a second, You're making a little mistake on my other computer. And so the importance of bringing that body along with you. Your body is super important. Okay so I'm pulling up the doc to get to the questions and then if there are some other questions, feel free to line them up so here's some of the ones that came in. Oh yeah so the one from yesterday. Okay. And yesterday from last week. Yeah, this is the tricky one. So, Eric sent this from last week one of my teachers texts of choice as a roadmap for the journey is the Bhagavad Gita. Verse 116 seems to speak to our area of interest, would you please expound on it from nocturnal perspective. So here's the verse and then I'll say a little bit. So this is from the Bhagavad Gita that which is like knights to all beings. There the self controlled is awake. And that, in which all beings are awake, is like night to a seer. That's fantastic. But I have no idea what it's talking about. And by this, what I mean is, it's a little bit presumptive for me to come in as an outsider. This is the difference between what's called the EMIC and etic perspective so the EMIC perspective is the insider's perspective, that's someone who you know is a Hindu studies the Bhagavad Gita knows the language knows how to decode it and can really, you know, Run with it from that EMIC perspective. I'm coming in from an ethnic perspective I'm an outsider. I don't hear about while I have tremendous respect for the Bhagavad Gita I don't study it. I read it. I'm not a Hindu, so I can only give you my, you know dilettante ish riff, as an ethic, from an aesthetic perspective and that probably doesn't mean a lot. But anyway, this is what came to mind with this sort of thing and I say this really with some, some kind of authenticity because it's really, it's so easy at basyl and I think problematic to
just, you know come running in with one's predispositions in history to bring that lens to a completely different tradition. Now that's not to say that there may not be in fact be some perennial truths that are here for sure. But, you know this stuff is, is written in what's called Twilight or code language is a lot of these great texts are kind of a self secret language, which is not only self secret to people within the tradition, but it's self secret for sure from people who are ethnic like me. And so therefore I can give you just my delicate, you know armchair riff as an outsider it probably doesn't mean a whole lot, and someone who is a scholar of this will probably say that it has nothing to do with what this verse, really means. And I would have to be like massively corrected. So it's, it's a little bit tricky to just kind of dance between these. So with that said, You know what I would. When I look at this I try to decode using my access codes, like what is some, some of this Twilight language so when witnesses that which is like night to all beings. Well, what is the night, a code for it. My language is code for a number of different things. Subtle also ignorance, also the unconscious. So, which one of those is it, I don't know that at least you know that this is kind of like dream language Twilight cool language that I would bring to a text like this. So anyway, that was just like nine to all beings there the self control does awake. Okay, so what does the self control refer to well my first first hint on this would be that the self control represents someone who has control their own mind, they're the self control is awake so someone who has control their mind, they're awake. And so when they fall asleep without the line that did come to mind here Eric is Rama Maharshi is great famous line from the invited adopted tradition so even within, within Hinduism right another Hindu school, they have a different read on it, but you probably heard this very beautiful famous line, that which does not exist in deep, dreamless sleep is not real. What a great line. So that which does not exist in the deepest of the night isn't real. And so when you're awake, if you are self controlled and you're awake, then you're actually the most awake in this formless dimension. So then the last clause is and that in which all beings are awake is like night to a seer, I mean, these are fantastically beautiful cryptic lines. And really, on one level, it's almost just resting in the mystery of it like almost like poetry renoble almost like dream interpretation, that's really the beauty for me. So, the last clause perhaps refers to formless awareness that in which all beings are awake is like night to a year. You know, so perhaps it's referring to someone who has this level of familiarity this level of lucidity ultimate lucidity. And for that person then there is no night everything is completely awake, but again, Eric, I'm totally shooting from the hip here. I don't know the languaging here is complete guests. So with that said, you know, I prefer not to run any further with it because if there's a Bhagavad Gita scholar out there, they may be rolling their eyes and saying, This guy has no idea what he's talking about and I would say you know what, you're right. Okay. Okay, these questions like these last couple of weeks, I want you guys eat like steroids out there and these questions are so good. So this is from David.
I love these questions. If unified field of experience is non dual awareness, I'm going to read this first and then and then unpack it a little bit. And actually, David's here and wants to it's always better if I can have some interchange with the person. But here's the question. If unified field of experiences now dual awareness, how is the world mine co created. Where does the coal arise from. If mind only, where does differentiation of experience or co creation of mines arise, these, these are great questions man these are awesome. So, David, if you're there, my friend, you know, first thing that comes to mind is, questions of this magnitude and depth, really need to be approached from relative and absolute perspectives, because they paying your question kings up both relative and absolute ways of relating to this so when you're talking about unified field of experience. I mean right there, like David if you're on, we can talk about it. What do you really referring to. David is on if you want me to bring him on and just let me do this let me let me give my, my little preparatory riff here and then if David is here we can ping it back and forth a little bit, anything of what I say here lands so. So when David you come on I'm going to ask you, you know, when you talk about Unified Field of Awareness unified field of experience. I'm curious, what were you what context are you deriving that from, because on one level, even when you use unified, you know, This idea of oneness, again I'm not being clever here it's just the the nuance associated with these types of questions. It's not, it's not one it's not. So when we say Unified Field of Awareness even the word Unified is problematic. But with that said, I'll try to run with what you, What you're talking about. How's the world mind co created well, from an absolute perspective, the world is just an expression of mind, it's just the literally the light of the self reflexively reflexively aware and mind so from an absolute perspective. Third turning Shantanu Jamocha Pardo down Dharma top perspective, that the world is just that radiant shine Sol in Tibet de sal leela, in Sanskrit roleplay in Tibet, it's just the play of the mind, the light of the mind. And you know the teachings like I mentioned Bardo Dharma teachings refined this search and teachings are found this third turning teachings riff on this. Now from a relative perspective. This is really interesting and again, because these questions, David, you know, these are really deep foundational questions so there's so much to say here. How's the world mind co created Well, one way to talk about this is how does this light from the absolute radiance, get reified How does it get frozen, what gets frozen out of ignorance, and there's so many different frameworks to explore with this one, one is yoga Chara teachings are super helpful here. How the using that languaging Hello all, Alia It's Donna flips into the Alia village nada how the seven consciousness looks back so you're asking how does it happen from the yoga Chara considered by many the most refined philosophical school to rise from India, from their perspective, how it happens is that the seven consciousness looks back upon the eight mistakes to literally to be self looks out at the radiance and this takes it to be other. So from that languaging that's how it takes place. But neither of those who are fundamentally true it's just human from that perspective, it's just the eighth consciousness, Alia consciousness even deeper, appearing as if near or far, so this question can be answered address that from a relative perspective from a number of different traditions. I think that yogacharya is one of the most compelling answers around this, but let me just say one of my last, last thing about last line and then if you're on, we can take it around a little bit. So the reason it's co arising, is because you're not experiencing just your mind right, the universe is not. I think it was a question last week from the physicist right. The reality is not solipsistic it's not just your mind, it's a collective dream it's co created by all the other sentient beings that karmically predisposed and actually we co create generative this this way and I've talked about this a lot, the place to go. This aspect of your question is the Kalachakra Tantra. Second Chapter on the individual, that talks about this with extraordinary elegance and precision.
And then with it within that said within this unified collective stream there are these it's like you have this collective current using metaphors, you have these individual mind streams, something that's called the Tera Vaada tradition these individual, relatively, relatively speaking, they're like one image I've heard that's pretty cool, is like you have this kind of collective stream that you're talking about these unified field unified stream of experience and individual kind of expressions of that would be little whirlpools the little vortices within the stream. And and so if you're on David want to ping this back and forth for a second, come on board. Great question, a lot to say about it but maybe I'll pause for a second to see if you want to say anything or if what I just said has any meaning for you. So are you there buddy.
Yes I am. Thanks for getting into this. Now this is a continuation of what we talked about last time. And if I'm not mistaken, that particular phrase. Jo parent had texted me in the chat, when, when I'd asked about it and he is, he had called it that. And so, the, the idea
called the what the unified field of experience. Yes, okay, okay. And
the point is, you know, to me is how it's not. You know how you can be simultaneously creating something with without any solid existence, and how it works as a co creation, how you know if they're if we're just a web, our field are even some of the Einsteinian look at that gravity field within a. However, do I, maybe I could use Einstein's ideas, where he talked about the world. And I'm aware that he's not the last word in physics anymore. But he's pretty damn good. But the idea that that, you know, the world. It's really hard to graph it out but if you're trying to put it into two on a sheet of paper, you can graph it out as these gravity wells existing in the field of, of like, and they're, they're drawing it down. And it's just places where it's heavier or where it's more intense, so it's consciousness, Say that, where that different point points within the unified world are the, the, the, the, you know, not even unified I understand that too it's, it was, it was never separate not
nullified. Yeah, not non dual,
but it's, it's non separate. And, but it's so subtle, how to even envision it in a way that you look at. am I, by my consciousness, am I helping to create the clouds that go over. Is it, and if so, and this is all simply, you know if consciousness is creating the world that we experience. Notice I'm saying the world that we experienced not the world, but where does it happen that the neighbors and I have you know we might be creating a community, but are we are we somehow creating shared experience beyond that. I'm quite well aware of science and sugars, double blind experiment, which holds up repeatedly, every time. It's one of the most verified startling scientific discoveries ever, that the universe doesn't take a form without observation. But yeah, where does you know and that but then understand you know there's no place we're observing from, but the observation is still happening.
Right So David, let me interrupt you for just a second, because we're, we're heading down an impossible rabbit hole here. And let me tell you why because this, this question is thorny enough when it has great questions I'm not dissing get it all is a great question I think about this stuff all the time. Love it. But, but we're running into a real what's called a category error by jumping ship from one paradigm to the next. In other words, this question is profound and thorny enough within one contemplative tradition, let alone another, and really further complicated when you start to bring science. Now that doesn't mean there is a tremendous validity to each one of these tracks of addressing this question, absolutely, positively there is, but I think there's an equal amount of tremendous peril. When you read things like, you know, going back to the beginning of these completions, things like the Tao of physics and the dancing were really masters where you say well you know because science is saying this is related to that. So, if you if we were to be doing debate as you know, you can't do what you're doing. So I'm going to be, because I know you and I love you I can give you a little feedback when, when you're talking about things that are this refined. As a rule, you have to stay within one particular framework. Now that isn't to say outside of it, you can't say, oh, there's an interesting correlate between that and Einstein and Bohr and Heisenberg, for sure. I mean, Ken Wilber does all this stuff is by the way if you want to look at that read his book, Quantum Questions. There's a ton of really compelling literature on this, but you simply cannot hit your spiritual horse to the scientific principles, because the fundamental descriptions of the wisdom traditions do not change. And science is constantly changing. So what happens when you hitch that horse to something that's, that's changing does your spirituality then change. So when you bring the science into it now you've, you've immediately left into the absolute in Europe, tracking from the experience of the relative, that's fine but then you have to stay there. You can't dance back forth before, and forth, back and forth between the two. And so because I am a little bit of where I studied physics for three years I know a little bit about this stuff.
You know I much prefer, I find it actually much more elegant, in my experience to talk about this in a more absolute way using the kind of wisdom traditions that you know you're also very deeply familiar with. So because this is such a deep labyrinthian issue, I just want to throw a couple of caveats about how one has to be extremely careful when we talk about these sorts of things because even the languaging, you know, you have these multi bailment terms that are used in the same tradition, and in these different traditions and so, as I often say, just because you have the same signifier, doesn't mean it refers to the same signified, and this, this is these are these category mistakes that happen all the time. So, if we were to take this into some depth, not only would we completely set aside the physics. We would then go to a particular school that approaches this let's say yogacharya Let's say absorption or whatever, or by Devadatta, and then we start to look at it very deeply from that lens, then we can do something a little bit fruitful. So, this stuff again, it's a terrific question. I love this sort of thing, but because it is so subtle and so nuanced, you know, and I've been taking the task on this myself in debates with with scholars and scientists. We have to be unbelievably precise, and we have to stay the course, within the particular paradigm or framework that we're referring to, because once you start jumping out that's actually considered cheating and the debates have to stay within your school. So because I'm more familiar with yoga Chara and Bardo teachings absorption. Plus I honestly think it has more explanatory power, I really do. Again science because it deals with a level of form will forever be evolving, these perennial truths from the tradition, babies are part of the changeless nature, they don't evolve, they don't change, so you can't hitch these two wagons, you know you can't hit that pony to this wagon, it just doesn't work. So with that said my friend again for the purposes of time. Oh my gosh, we could do a whole course on this. I would love it. Sean Carroll listen, here's another way, If you want to get some idea of this listen to the interview that the interview the. There were so you can get an online, really interesting conversation with ALAN WALLACE and Sean Carroll the physicists theoretical physicist, on the nature of reality. and I actually communicate with Elon after this conversation because Elon I thought to some incredibly insightful brilliant things and Shawn just wouldn't listen to him, I mean, it was like it was like they were just like talking past each other. And so but just to give you some sense of how this conversation can go in very interesting directions look up the the dialogue, I think it's on the nature of reality Sean Carroll BL and Wallace, because they riff a little bit, a little bit about this kind of thing, but it just shows you how very thorny tricky difficult it is to talk about this especially it's hard enough, like I said within a tradition, really, really difficult to talk about it outside of traditions. And so with that said, with your permission, I'm going to let it go for now so I can just turn to other questions but I love what you bring it up. And I think when I work with and stuff. You know I've been slapped around. There's a lot of mistakes, intellectual mistakes that can be made with these types of comparisons and completions, and so we just have to be extremely precise and careful so that okay with you, but
can I zoom it in a little bit into dream, though. Okay, if you're just, you know, If you're, if given all of this. Yeah, and then the dream, the dream isn't going to play fair. It's not going to stick to the levels of debate, but you also can't create karma, by what your dream.
Only if you're conscious. Only if you're lucid, non lucid dreams do not create karma now lucid dreams are the result of karma, but if there's no intentionality involved they don't create karma. Karma is created when intention is involved, so if it's a non lucid dream, there's no comic created. If it's a lucid dream, and you intend karma is created. so there's that differentiation. Okay,
okay. All right,
thanks David always appreciate your comments and questions. Thanks for them, I appreciate it,
man. Thank you. Thank you. Okay.
There was Chad. Hey, you guys know Chad from from Saturday Night Live. I love this guy's, he's a relatively new character for me. He's just a total kick in the pants. Okay, so from Peter. Hi Andrew thinking of one's as a longer question So, thinking of one's inner state of mind as being akin to a climatic condition. Does it follow that the activity purpose of meditation is to take stock of what one's internal weather condition is like, I'll answer this as I go along. Yeah, that's part of it. I'm basically, I'm not sure I use the word taking stock but simply just checking in and seeing what's there. And then of course relating to those weather patterns so to speak with equanimity so back to his question, those for example, if one recognizes is aware of the fact that one's thoughts are racing. Would that then equate to oneself being caught in some kind of storm. Yeah, you could say that as an analogy, yeah. And that one is then presumably seeking to find refuge from that storm. Sure and illogically Sure. Moreover, with that, seeking of refuge be dealt with in meditation by for example, exerting oneself to remain focused on following the ins and outs of one's breath. That's one thing you can do. Peter that's you know that's a really cool thing about these meditative traditions. There are so many different ways to do that one is to just, is he say take refuge in this perspective by staying with your breath and then witnessing it, that's probably the classic Shama to the personal mindfulness, awareness, kind of more entry level, we'll leave it at that. But there are many other ways to work with that but what you said is a really powerful kind of entryway for sure. Would that mean that one could should just remain seated there and simply enjoy the good weather and not feel obliged to do anything yeah it's called witness awareness thing. It's like what Kripalu says beautiful statement, the highest form of spiritual practice is self observation without judgment, it's been fantastic. So watch the weather of your mind. Attack Pema children's first book, The wisdom of No Escape has several chapters somewhat related to this whether the Four Noble Truths. So the weather analogy is a really beautiful one actually, and it's a good one. But what you're saying is true. Remain seated there and simply enjoy the good weather, and not feel obliged to do anything about it. Yes and also don't have preference for it, you know, life is not a fair weather event. Right, so, so when the weather gets crappy and Hailey and stormy Can you relate to that. Using your melt analogy, the same way you relate to Sunshine. That's the practice that's the practice a little bit deeper than what you're saying, relating with ultimate great equanimity to what arises, sitting there like the proverbial bump on the log, are you on the right track here yeah I think you are Peter Yeah, and that analogy you know weather. The weather and space analogy is a really good one right. I use it a lot. It has a lot of traction, especially when you associate or you can make the analogy that space, mind is like space awareness is like space clouds and weather patterns are like thoughts storms, for sure, there's, There are some definite analogs, they're absolutely okay from Tim. I know Thursday is our open question day so I have a somewhat different question, that's okay. Any question can come in. I am lately seeing a lot of news about UFOs and aliens in the upcoming government disclosure coming by the end of the next month. Oh I didn't know there's an upcoming disclosure coming up. Oh that's cool, we've probably had aliens living in the White House, that's probably what the disclosure is gonna be sorry. I have to stay apolitical here. So you gotta laugh about some of this stuff right. Okay, back to Tim, I do find this interesting and wonder if, if there's a particular viewpoint on this, or if I have any personal view concerning this subject did Trump ever say anything about this. Not that I'm aware of. The Tibetan viewpoint on this I don't know of one Tim but I have to tell you, I'm interested in this stuff. And I'll tell you why principally I read I think I might have said something about this almost a year ago, a friend of mine sent me a paper by Sean.
OH S born Hargens Sean S born SBR and Hargens, he's a really interesting integral thinker, PhD, very smart guy philosopher. He wrote this paper that I was I was actually blown away by this paper. In fact, I got his email, I had intended to reach out to him to actually bring him on see if I could interview him. But when I read this paper Tim. It's on what's called now exhale studies, and it was super interesting the whole paper. At first I thought it was like, you know, a joke I actually looked at the date like was was this published on April 1 But Shawn goes through an incredibly interesting, very intellectual very broad integral analysis of Excel studies, and his look at non human intelligence and H eyes, UFOs Aliens, and then he, He uses all this stuff, you know years ago I used to just like most people go oh geez, like, you know, whatever, just like has zero interest. But when I read Shawn's paper and I started to think about this more, I became more and more interested in it and because what Shawn does is he then uses this kind of thing with UFOs and aliens and non human intelligences, as a way to explore alternate ways of looking at reality liminal states in what he calls an ontological matrix which is a super interesting way, a much more refined elegant way that actually in the spirit of integral studies can embrace the complete validity veracity of these called UFOs and whatnot. And so, oh my gosh there's so much to say here I actually, you know, now they kind of bring us up somewhat inspires me to reread that paper, maybe get back in contact, not back in contact but initiate contact with Shawn and see if I can get him to come in and chat about this kind of stuff because it is really interesting stuff, it kind of ran with my cages when I read this paper, because it completely changed my way of thinking about this stuff, instead of just categorically dismissing it. Really looking at it in a more kind of integrated perspective. So the Tibetans. Not that I'm aware of. But you know one thing they do talk about. That is kind of resonant with this is multi world systems for sure. So when you know when we talk about things like UFOs and aliens. In this context, we're just talking about that with him this particular bandwidth of reality. Well, you know what the Tibetans do talk about our you know 27 different dimensions in samsara altogether right not just this earthly dimension. And then you have all the trans samsaric dimensions and so the Tibetans absolutely positively riff on that, which is a much bigger topic than the UFOs Alien things, but it's kind of within that context within that flavor, so really interesting question. I didn't know anything about this government disclosure that'll be interesting. But yeah Thanks for, thanks for bringing that up. Okay, let me get there's a bunch of them so let me paint through a couple from Linda comments, there are many anecdotal stories on the Internet of organ transplant recipients who develop tastes and characteristics of the donor. This relates to the neural relationships of various organs and the brain, various organs in the brain. Oh absolutely, Linda in fact in later in that section that I was just commenting from I give some of these statistics that it's super interesting. When I talk about, you know, the, the inseparability of body and mind, and exactly using studies like this, that, that often recipients will have memories and images that are not there that are consistent with the life of the donor. I mean that's like interesting as all get out and literally, perhaps no surprise, the, the patients who have the biggest incidence of this are heart transplant patients so people who receive a literal heart can have a figurative change of heart. I just love this though, it's it's like totally mind bending right so when, when these organs are transplanted it's not just the matter that's coming part of the mind of that person is actually coming along, so no part of their minds dream is actually transplanted into you, I mean how interesting is that so I'm aware of these studies, Linda, I love this stuff. It's not just anecdotal, there's, it's more than anecdote. Yeah, Barry Charlie Morleys is in the firefighter breathing method. Oh nice. Very cool. Yeah, Charlie's a great guy, thanks for that very HJ comment. This is similar to box breathing, which is a cyclist for oh I don't know about box breathing so that's cool. Thank you. Anonymous comment. Einstein said only two things are infinite. Yes, I know this line, this is a great line. Only two things are infinite. The universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
That is a terrific line. Yeah, I'm familiar with that, I just love it only do you think it who knows if you really said this, he probably did. I haven't really taken the trouble to track it down but I know it's attributed to him, only two things are infinite the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the former is fantastic, which means the universe may be finite and human stupidity definitely isn't perfect. Okay so one from Raheem, and then a raised hand from Amanda. Oh that is a thing but from shontella but UFO so cool we'll get to all these okay from Raheem. There doesn't seem to be any word in vegetariana novasure yonder tradition that is mindfulness. Oh well, they don't use that term. Shinae. I've checked with a few translators that I know and mindfulness doesn't seem to be a tradition. Well yeah, again. Yes, yes and no. You know, mindfulness is, oh what did I track down. Oh I just read an article by Andrew Lenski he's the kind of the scholar in residence at bar A marry and also try second magazine. He talked about the very first use this this angle use of the word mindfulness. I just read it and I can't remember exactly what he said but what you're saying is true, but the spirit is encapsulated in the term sheet A. And it's also connected to Locke calm so yeah they don't use the word mindfulness as you say, but that's because mindfulness is a kind of bastardization of these, these terms that the closest one in Tibet, that I'm aware of would be Cian a Satish murti Pali Sanskrit. So you can do, you know you can do a little bit of illogical research here and you'll find the true analogues to the word mindfulness. And again if I had, if I had a second I could probably Google this thing I just read from Andrew Alinsky but I can't surface it, but he talks about this very specifically. Okay So Amanda, if you're there, fire away. Drew,
so about the body. I totally agree with you important it is and Saucony remember Shea, is being so helpful, hasn't he talking about the subtle body. And I, myself, I had a dope diagnosis, about 20 years ago, of something that could have developed into cancer, and with meditation issues were surfacing that I needed to process, so I managed to reduce this area that I had by well by more than half, so in fact the doctors wrote the case up because I thought it was very interesting that that you know, by, by actually releasing all this stuff up, you know, you, you become, you know you clear, clear the system. But what I wanted to ask you about was, I find it very challenging dealing, here I am, I did. I'm not at home at the moment so you can't even see my bookcase. If you like looking at people's bookcases, but, um, it's really dealing with Brexit, and with the pandemic in a foreign country, talking a foreign language, I find it very challenging, and one of the things is not taking on other people's fear, because there's so much fear around isn't that. And you know I've had to deal with so much difficulty with the bureaucracy in France, which is really unbelievable. Yeah, so I was thinking of your phrases you know don't give it a place to land and all that, but it's very difficult because you know there's an energy of the fear isn't there. And so of course, you know, one has to really monitor the amount of time you have around people who really, you know, are not doing the work themselves and are giving out a lot of negativity.
Oh yeah, no kidding.
No, no, I didn't have any.
Oh for sure yeah you know the fear thing, um, you know, yeah I've, I've thought about this a lot and actually rift on it a little bit. Fear is extraordinarily contagious, and it's it's highly infectious it's highly marketable I mean, you know, in the States. When the pandemic was breaking you know Andrew Cuomo before he got in trouble, of course, says something spot on, he said Fear is more contagious than the virus and it is, because fear. Again, you can campaign on it, look at what, what our recent President did that's why he was so excessive so successful, you can market it, because it's so primal it's so fundamental and it's so reified, it's actually the fundamental effective expression of samsara, anger and fear. And so, yeah, it's core, and that's why it's, it's so easy to default into it. That's why people can spread it. And therefore, like you said, one has to be pretty stable one has to really bring up an appropriate lens so that this fear doesn't gain purchase in your own being, and then sometimes you know until we have the capacity, the stability, the spaciousness, to be in any environment where the environment no longer affects us, you know, this is what I, it's called absolute city or absolute power right when the world no longer has power over you, that's very, that's, that's very high level of spiritual realization where you can be in such infectious environments. And if you don't catch the virus, it does it's not contagious, you're not infected. But until we get to that point exactly what you say we have to sometimes separate ourselves we have to titrate we have to limit we have to diet whatever metaphor you want to use. Simply because this default is so ingrained it's been going on for so long that it's incredibly easy. There's a reason it's a default to just slip into that, and then it's not just fear but it's all the other things that cascade upon it upon that you will find you know if you really look close upon fear you'll find things like sadness, depression, when there's this whole secondary, tertiary quaternary expression of these natural healthy states of mind that they all can be reduced to fear. It's just that fear is the most foundational, and so I can only say I agree with everything you're you're sharing, and that it does take some practice it takes some sanity. It takes some understanding and compassion. And then also, it takes courage to sometimes just say no and you know, just simply walk away, but the fear thing you know and I was, I read a recent thing, like chemical cartel Rubick J fear is with us until Buddhahood. Fear is with us until the emperor, the 910s movie. So we'll be working with, with expressions of fear until we attain enlightenment. Because and again it makes total sense to me because if fear is a is a relative bed work of samsara. The closer you get to the truth, the more you're going to have to face it, and so that's why it's really important, and again I did an entire program last year, working with fear and anxiety and an uncertain world, because this stuff is so infectious so contagious, and a virus worse than any, so anything else to say on that outside of just. Good luck.
I think there is something important here, it's about sleep, because you know if one's tired one obviously hasn't got the sort of resilience, and that's why it's really important, you know, sleep is a bit difficult. So I was thinking about, you know, there's all these different opinions and I know you've had the sleep doctor talking about how many hours we should sleep, but you know I have had this habit of waking up in the middle of the night. Now sometimes, you know,
log off,
tune in to what, you know, whatever, you're the type go
Yeah, That's like the worst thing to do right, any sleep doctor will tell you yet, though I did
it is that I'm thinking, Maggie Thatcher got dementia because she only slept for four hours a night.
And Reagan, people, it'll happen to Trump, I mean. there's a direct ratio people that don't sleep enough to get early onset dementia and Alzheimer's so anyway that's a different story.
Yeah, you've said before the fact that special sleep before midnight you know where you get the REM and you get the sort of healing aspects of it then, but I mean, yeah, so I think that's very important the sleep side, and then we get the last thing I'd say is obviously about the humor because that's my thing I said you that article about humor last year do you remember about humor. Absolutely and. And I'd like to hear because since you know you started last year, you know, you're quite seriously one of the first courses you did, and I thought that wanted to be Shambala was just fantastic about the budget I'm really, you know, I'm really doing at the moment, I thought it was just really really helpful, but I've noticed you've got more and more, you know hubris yourself which is great because it is the answer. And what I want to give is a last example of how it works here. When I was doing this work with cellular memory. I would do some acupuncture once, and I suddenly burst out laughing. And what had happened is some, something came up about some family issue or something, and I suddenly started laughing and what came out of my mouth was absurd absurdity of it all. And then my whole body, 15, and over, I don't know, I like a tongue fell off my shoulders. I mean, a ton of memories and stuff that I'd be carrying for my family, and that was huge, I just started laughing and shaking, and that was just like that. So you know what, sometimes you could have those physical releases but it was on many levels, and I then felt very high for about two months after that I felt as if I was on air. Because you know what, we're carrying this stuff, you know, we're all talking about that as you know, you know, It's this thing of cellular memory, your cellular memory is so
young. So remember, yeah. Remember, Bruce Lipton's play on that membrane right, the brain the membrane has that memory. That's why he plays with that word era. So I completely agree with you. Yeah, yeah, it's just, it's not really selling your memory it's also sell your attention. You know, I mean, this is this notion of tension is contraction is, is riddling our body all the way down to the cellular level. And so yeah, it's another instance of how your mind isn't up here, your mind is saturated throughout your body and it's inseparable from very deep levels from the tissue of actual the cellular makeup of who you are, so completely Great, thanks for sharing.
Shay starts his meditation you know he kind of smacks his thighs, you know, when he does, you know,
Very well. Absolutely. I love the guy to get
you to dinner and then he shakes his hands like because I
know.
He says, essence love and clarity. Yeah, it's the body, clarity, but you know, in a way, he makes it very simple.
it's beautiful it's his his formula, transmission, I love it. He's a genius he's one of the best out there, so thank you for sharing.
We'll have to laugh every day.
Thank you Dr. Shake. So a couple more written ones here. Okay. Okay, for this week the Pentagon confirmed yet again the presence of UFOs. Cool. You will fix the UFO experience they were referencing was an object, it was flying and then plunged into the ocean that the Navy witnessed and then checked out to the wreckage with their boats they couldn't find anything. My question is, given that our experience of reality is no different than the dream. Only our ability to perceive, be more conscious is it possible that whatever these UFOs are, they are on the same field as the awakened ones where they can materialize the materialize it will. Hence the many instances where these crafts disappear and then reappear it well, I have no idea. None whatsoever. But hey, you know, what do they say in the in the great teachings the emptiness teachings with emptiness, everything is possible. And so, it's possible but I can't speak with any authority on this sort of thing. So it's interesting kind of conjecture Shantelle but I really agnostic, at best, I have no idea. I mean why not right, but I just don't know. Yeah, the article that Sean said it I don't think it's available, um, I have to see if I can get permission to post it. So when I'm gonna reach out to him, you know, a lot of stuff. He He's a really sharp cookie. If I could reach him and he gives me permission to post it, then maybe I'll post it, and then maybe actually I'll bring him on and we can have an interview with him. It's a really clever piece, I was kind of, I had to read it several times, because it's a real Mind Bender, it was absolutely, completely stretched my mind, I mean I literally I have to pause because like my BS meter was just going and you know the red redzone redlining and I said this is bullshit, but then I said well wait a second, how do you know, you don't know that this is BS but, So it really tested me a really stretched me. And so I had to read it a couple times and I, because it was, you know, delivered with such intelligence and thoughtfulness, I hung in there because I realized he had something to say. And after the second reading. It was like whoa, there's this guy's pretty clever so stay tuned. Okay, uh, yeah the grandpa yeah so a comment from yes from Ralph the Tibetan word grandpa yet, Dr PMPA transliteration. The word literally yes you're correct is often translated as mindfulness, again, it literally, it's a translation the word wrap up means recollection or memory. And so, correct. Thank you for adding that completely agree and it's a great addition so thank you. This is related to the earlier question about finding the word mindfulness in Tibetan so she NE And grandpa. Wendy Okay, question about dreaming last night I was dreaming. There was a wonderful positive dream. Four times in the dream I did the reality check. Cool. I would ask, Is this a dream, check and look at my hands and pull and pull a finger. I only did the finger thing a couple of times it did work. It was pretty cool. But the other thing I've done with my finger is that I do more than stretching the finger thing is, is putting my finger through my call. So that's the state checked I do even now, So, like you know something weird happens of interjecting into her comment. I'll try to do this. Oh, I can't do I can't put my finger through here so I must be awake, and I've triggered a number of lucid dreams where I'll do this in the dream and guess what my finger goes right through my palm. And then it's like, Whoa, I can't do that in waking life, I must be dreaming. So the stretching thing I've only done that a couple times but it did work. So back to her. Each time I was very excited that I saw my hands is normal. My finger did not stretch. Yeah What a bummer. That's the power of habit. I actually cried with happiness that this wasn't the dream. When I woke I was laughing at myself for believing it could have been real. And he heads out of what I can do to realize I'm dreaming. I've recorded over 550 Dreams over the last five months, good for you. Since beginning this journey few very short lucid episodes. Yeah, when do you know any hints on what I can do to realize I'm dreaming. Just keep going, keep doing all these state shocks you know, here's the thing about this stuff,
you know, lucid dreaming especially Dream Yoga. Yoga dream yogurt. Dream Yoga is the moniker is the measure of the path and so this is, this is one reason. These practices are a tiny bit advanced because they will show you where you are, and if it takes somebody advanced attitude to accept that kind of truth, it's like jeez, there's a lot being revealed or like a. So, the reason I say this is that. Hold on a second. I just had a mental dream lapse Hold on. Is that is what I was going to say is it with the proper view. Even the so called failures can be seen as successes, and by that what I mean is that anything, if it's related to property in the world of Dream Yoga can be seen as a success, even if he can't accomplish the practice, or in this case even lucidity. And so it's a success in this sense, because it's revelatory and again will show you the power of your habitual patterns that holy moly, you know I'm doing all this stuff and I'm still doing all these state checks and I'm still not able to attain acidity in the dream, I mean my friend Joe parent, if he's listening he shares this hysterical story it's just fantastic where, you know, Joe's are really sophisticated advanced practitioner, and he shared the story with me several times it's just hysterical, where he was in the lucid dream, and I'm pretty sure it was Trump or Vijay, and Joe if your own you can share the story where you know, Trump obj in the dream is actually telling him that he's dreaming. So here he is, his teacher is in the dream, and he's telling him that he's dreaming, and he still doesn't get it, it's hysterical it's just absolutely brilliant. So the only thing I say here Wendy somewhat connected to, to the earlier question about humor is just Amanda was saying it just enjoy it, laugh at it realize, Oh my gosh, look at the power of my habitual patterns. This is unbelievable. Don't get wigged out about it and just keep going. Now specifically, you do all the things that we've talked about you know we have so many resources here, if you're a nightclub member, A number of webinars were devoted to obstacles and antidotes, so you can look up the webinars that talk about that virtually every first round I had with the big teachers Daniel Love, Robert Wagner, Charlie Morley. Claire Johnson, every one of those people I asked exactly this question. So the other resource would be the lucid dreaming guidebook work, a step by step guide for mastering your dream life, the habitual process book that I published on September, that has quite a bit on this stuff, so there's there's tons, you keep meditating, you keep doing all the standard stuff, you keep working with more and more induction methods. And then eventually, like I mentioned you're putting heat into the system, eventually even though things don't seem to be changing, you're warming up, and then eventually you'll come to a boil, but it's not a linear thing, you know, it goes up and then it comes down like a stock market, you have some really peak episodes, and then you'll enter a drought, like nothing is happening. And so under all those conditions you just keep going. Hardest with determination levity, sense of humor and delight, and then the whole thing even these failures you know I I do some of these doing yoga practices or I try, I can't do them. I try, I can't. It doesn't wake me out, you know I wake up and go oh geez, you know that official pattern is still really strong with me. It doesn't freak me out, it's like okay I need to put more energy into that. So, maintain a kind of determined attitude, and that everything arises in the dream, even the so called failures, there are no failures, it's like Contra. There are no failures. They're just pointing out limitations, and then you accept that feedback and then you just keep going. Okay. All right, so I'll comment. Oh yeah from pack shock Yeah. Project room which I think is your main student on your main teacher right Andy. Yeah project room is saying about aliens if they have ego they need Dharma s I love it. That's fantastic. That's a really great, great line about aliens. If they have the ego, they need the Dharma, if they're an alien that doesn't matter.
That's fantastic, so. Okay. Any other final live or written questions before we close it out for today. Yeah, this alien stuff this is cool, note to self, I'll reach out to Shawn and see if we can bring him on board, it's a really interesting paper this guy wrote, and I didn't realize all this stuff was cooking with with aliens in the in the government these days so it's it's pretty cool. So. Any other final questions or comments before we close, when you go out look for UFOs tonight. I think we're good for today. Okay. All right, so this is what we started doing it was Andy's I Was it your idea Andy I love it. Everybody unmute themselves, and not only do we waive now but we all get to say