Download Otter for your meeting notes

S3E47-RAOK-IPP-RonnieCarrasquillo040725S3-E47 | Otter.ai

S3E47-RAOK-IPP-RonnieCarrasquillo040725S3-E47

Natalia Sobery25min

Ronnie Carrasquillo

00:03

They start saying, in my hearings, you're going to die by incarceration. So that alone, when you're going to a panel, it's supposed to be just determining you doing better and you're accomplishing something for them to say, we're going to disregard that you're going to die here by incarceration. That makes you see the world in a whole nother view.

Speaker 1

00:24

In 1977 Ronnie Carrasquillo was involved in a shooting of a police officer in Chicago. He was convicted and given a sentence of 200 to 600 years. Many years later, he would become eligible for parole. He was denied a record number of times, but in October of 2023 he was released. This is random acts of knowledge presented by Heartland Community College. I'm your host, Steve fast. Today we'll talk with Ronnie Carrasquillo, who's the subject of a PBS documentary and has been speaking about his experience seeking parole and growing up in prison.

Ronnie Carrasquillo

00:58

My name is Ronnie Carrasquillo, and I'm speaking to the heart the people from the heartland college about basically one sided narratives and the system of corrections and the injustices of the criminal justice

Speaker 1

01:11

system. So Ronnie, you served nearly 47 years in prison before you were released. That is very long time when you were sentenced. You were 18, right, yes sir, and you were given a sentence of 200 to 600 years. Yes, sir. What was going through your mind when they came with that sentence? Well,

Ronnie Carrasquillo

01:34

for starters, I served 47 plus years, not up to 47 was over 47 years, not much over about 47 years. And what went through my mind was I grew up in a impoverished, you could say, gang infested environment, so there was violence, racism all around and that's what I grew up seeing. So I was an athlete in school. So they basically would take me to the gym and train and train. So I never really got the Scholastic the book. Now you know that you go to school, so anyway, you can say I was book illiterate. So when the judge sentenced me 200 600 years, I was 18 years old, coming from a background with no education, where parents with not a lot of education, dysfunctional family, divorce in the family, living in the streets. My parents dying young, and I had no idea the weight of the criminal justice system with the 200 600 year sentence, it took actually maybe eight years later that I realized I was in trouble. Until then, there was so much gang activity in the street, so much gang activity in the prison system. So basically, you got in this predicament, and you were just fighting every day to survive. You. My thought was not, what is the law? How do I get out of here? It was a daily survival and it took me approximately eight years to realize, Hey, I got, I got a problem. Was

Speaker 1

03:05

there a period, maybe, after the eight years, where you thought, well, I There isn't a hope of getting out? Was that something that you had to struggle with the idea that that was it, and that you were going to spend the rest of your entire life incarcerated

Ronnie Carrasquillo

03:21

in the beginning stages. At that time, I was sentenced as an indeterminate prisoner. The parole system was more active. So in 1977 they stopped it to come out with the determinant sentencing factor. So my first four and five years of incarceration, if a guy had 200 or 100 they were sort of eight years, nine years, and granted parole. So you knew that if you walked a straight line, went to school, did programs, you more than likely were going to be granted parole. So as the system evolved into the more punitive concept, then it started to dawn on me these people were saying, because they started saying in my hearings, you're going to die by incarcerated incarceration. So that alone, when you're going to a panel, is supposed to be just determining you doing better and you're accomplishing something, for them to say, we're going to disregard that you're going to die here by incarceration. That makes you see the world in a whole nother view is somebody's threatening your life.

Speaker 1

04:23

Did you find anything to motivate you to evolve as a person? I mean, again, you were a kid, basically when you were sentenced. You're 18, and as you said, you hadn't really had, you know, a broad educational experience. So when somebody says that you're going to die in here. What is your motivation to improve yourself and develop any skills you have? How did you find that?

Ronnie Carrasquillo

04:47

Well, they sent me my first the first prison I went to Joliet, the smaller Joliet, then I went to Stateville maximum security prison. In that prison was probably 4000 people at that time, 700 people living. In a cell house, three men living in a five by nine cell, and 2000 assaults a year. So it was a very violent atmosphere. So the concern is not being assaulted, not being used in that sense, and that's where your focus is. And you're living with people that consider you as your enemy, because you come from a street gang life now you're in this cage. You can't get out, so you learn how you have to live with each other. So I created a program that was called Hispanic culture change Committee, which basically brought all the different factors of these different street gangs to a table to sit down to create cultural programs, playing baseball, looking Spanish foods, and bringing Mothers Against gangs to the prisons, bringing churches in on bands and Cinco de Mayo. So these programmings had us working together so it stopped the violence that now we had a chance to start going to school, start getting to college courses, and then sharing with each other. And basically, we're a bunch of young boys. They started to mature into man, realizing that, you know, we destroyed our community, we destroyed our families, and now we're stuck in this place. We couldn't keep going on like that, so we just became a training center, and that became me for the rest of my time.

Speaker 1

06:24

You mentioned education earlier, was education a part of your experience in prison?

Ronnie Carrasquillo

06:29

Yes, my mother died when I was 15 years old, and then at 18 years old, I entered the prison system. I was a senior in high school when I was arrested. So just keeping it in my mind, my parents would want me to graduate. I had to get that. I had to do that. My first months in the Stateville, I was offered jobs, as you know, different vocational jobs, and I turned them down. No, I have to go to school. So I knew I had to go to school. I knew I had to during my trial, in the closing arguments, they said, these guys are ignorant, and first you take it as an insult, somebody's calling you ignorant, calling you a dummy, and when you realize it, basically you are ignorant. So you just have to face yourself, that you got to grow up. So the only place you're going to get it is in the books. And I went to school immediately, and I think I got my GED 1979 my first year in Stateville.

Speaker 1

07:22

So beyond that, once you got your GED, were you motivated to learn anything else? And how hard was that to do? Did they have the resources there in Stateville to pursue more education? They

Ronnie Carrasquillo

07:34

had the college programs from Roosevelt University, you Lewis University. So I took up to think I have 36 college credit hours, but I was in maintenance. I was an electrician, I was a welder, I was a locksmith, washer, dryer repair. So I was a mechanical type person. So because I was going to the college and taking the accounting and sociology and criminology, I didn't see myself in the future sitting at a desk at that time. So I missed my opportunity to get that credential. But I have six or seven locations, and once I left stable and went to places that you can get certified in, it, I'm certified in all these different arenas, in vocation, but not in the college arena, and then especially in a seminary on top of that, can

Speaker 1

08:21

you talk about the certifications? And those are part of the process where, with the gear of being, you know, released from prison, you had such a long sentence, and you did have eligibility to go in front of the parole board. When did you become eligible for

Ronnie Carrasquillo

08:35

parole? I became eligible to go to a parole board, 1985 1985

Speaker 1

08:41

and you were eventually released when

Ronnie Carrasquillo

08:44

I was released, October 18, 2023

Speaker 1

08:49

so that's a long time. 85 to 2023 How many times did you go in front of the parole board?

Ronnie Carrasquillo

08:56

Myself, I believe it was like 37 times, but I'm told it was 35 they got on count 35 but so it's in there, so it's over the 35 at least times. Yeah, I

Speaker 1

09:06

think there was at least one time where you showed up and there wasn't any opposing testimony to argue for you to stay. And so they just said, Oh, well, you got to go back.

Ronnie Carrasquillo

09:14

That was an extreme situation that my attorney general for sober from Illinois Prison Project basically represented me at that hearing, and there was no officers there. And at that time, the state attorney who prosecuted me came on my behalf to say, you know, that he didn't intend me to be this long, and he was astounded that I was still in prison, and because there was no opposition to be against me, they actually said, Well, we're not going to vote today. We're going to hold up. So she mentioned that. So there's nobody here. The State Attorney, Kim fox said, Let him go. She don't oppose parole. So we're going to, we're going to continue the hearing, to go find somebody to be an opposing party who stopped this parole. So what's going on here, you know? So it just showed their steps. Of. Colonialism. Just, you know that's injustices like that, that their only function of the prison review board is to in the people sentence like I was, to find the time when you've been that's what the minimum sentence is to pay my 200 year minimum sentence represents the seriousness of the offense you get in 200 years for what you've done. They give you the 600 years to show after you go to the prison review board. Now you could Max, you can max that sentence out by serving it all the way through, but if you show you've rehabilitated, maybe one year later, five years later, whatever, then you're granted parole. So when the board evolved into, we're not going to recognize any of that and defy the Constitution and just make statements of I'll never vote for you. So I was done before the hearing even started. Why even have the hearings? And it got to that point, what

Speaker 1

10:53

you were convicted of doing in 1977 was you fired a gun and it killed a police officer. I believe he was an off duty police officer, right? He wasn't in uniform, yes, sir, he perished because of a gun you fired. So how much did the fact that your crime involved, the death of a police officer, have to do with you being denied parole? Some of the other conditions and circumstances that would normally be involved was that brought up every single time. Was it something that the parole board cited? How did that enter into the process?

Ronnie Carrasquillo

11:28

It was the sole factor. You know, they would bring instances up, oh, you're still in a gang, or there was no disciplinary record. I had no disciplinary record. I had so many accomplishments. So they can only use that, that you are in a gang. So they I would say to the prison Review Board, I'm the oldest 18 year old that you know, because I'm turning 40, 5060, years old, and you're still telling me I'm 18 years old. So they used to just look at me, but the bottom line was the fact of the victim being a police officer has his job. So they had it in their mind, because there's officers, ex officers on the board, ex state attorneys on the board, that a person like that don't deserve any liberty, that that it's not it's not a law, it's just a personal association and attachment to the past profession and respecting their profession. And they, they used to come to the parole board, 3040, 50 officers in busses and surround the parole board, you know, to show that, that that flock, to show that that cronyism and intimidate the board, and then they will succumb to that. And it wouldn't matter who I if I brought the pope in there and he said, This guy is okay. They didn't matter. And then they started to get so strong in it, they would voice it. And that's when it started to, you could say, turn in my favor, that the court started realizing that I was being prejudiced against for that fact, they didn't want to hear any accomplishments. So that that's what finally gained my liberty, that fact alone that we filed that I'm not afforded, the Constitution where it says to restore me to useful citizenship, because they were purposefully and intentionally saying what they weren't going to do, and it was recorded for years and years. Well, I'll never vote for you. Will never and those kind of comments is prejudice that whatever I came there to show that I did what the law said to do.

Speaker 1

13:28

You know, there's a PBS documentary about your experience, especially being in front of the parole board so many times, in a documentary, we see your family advocating for you. As you mentioned you were you're in prison for over 47 years. That's a huge part of your life, but also of their lives. So I wonder if you could talk a little bit about your relationship with your family in the documentary. It's really amazing to see the support they had for you, the benefit that that had for you, working with attorneys and being able to secure your release.

Ronnie Carrasquillo

13:57

My family was outstanding. You know, coming from my father was a laborer, and, you know, cooks in the kitchen and all that. So they had no and neither did I have no inclination of what a criminal justice system is, the law or not. All you know is, if you pay an attorney, that's your attorney, and you're supposed to be secure. That's not the case. So my my younger brother, one of my younger brothers, was by my side the whole time visits, acquiring lawyers all that, but under the theory of you're giving a lawyer money and you're okay, that's still not the case. So as my sister, the one who's in the documentary, who really came forward later on, it took years of training her my first 20 years or so, my father kept my family away. They moved to the suburbs to get out of Chicago from the harassment from the police. So they were basically instructed, you don't have a brother. So I was separated from my family for 20 or 25 years. So when I finally got in touch or we. Started communicating better. My sister now had children, so at that time, phone calls were $15 for for 20 minutes. Sometimes it went down to $4 who can afford that? I couldn't put them expenses on these people. You know, to call my family in Puerto Rico is $30 for a 15 minute phone call. Who can afford those prices? So, you know what I started working on with my my younger sister, who's in the documentary data, she had technical skills that I needed when technology started taking off, that my brother didn't have, like I didn't have we came out of the streets, but my sister had them technical skills, how to email, how to group text, the whole works of communication. She's a communication expert. So as we lost parole, hearing after parole, hearing after hearing, it would charge them up more, because they're just laymen. They're just regular people, and they could see something's wrong here. This is not supposed to go like this, and that's not supposed to go like that. As them losses came by, I got a chance to educate them on this is what's supposed to happen. This is what's not happening, and this is where you could go to find out about this. And then as far as my sister, there's a prison ministry called RTOS, called Radical time out been coming into the prison for 30 something years. So I started sending her there for spiritual strength to go there, where other people were incarcerated, where them families could be under they had the same yoke upon them. They had that same problem that they have a family member in jail. What do we do about it? Because a system is so strong, one family to fight a system, especially when you have hundreds of years or you have natural life, the system is a system. It just operates. It has no feelings. It's just does what it does. They had to be trained. My sister became she became trained. She, she, she counsels like an attorney. If you listen to her speak, I look at her, I said, Wow, you, you sound like a lawyer, you know. And it's from years of from loss, when you lose and you're trying to get somebody out of jail and the expenses of it, every year she will round up 20 cars, 1520, cars, all these people, 5060, people, 80 people drive to Springfield. And 99% of the time knowing we're going to lose, but to go through that again. And when you lose, you learn. And we've eventually became victorious

Speaker 1

17:19

after that victory, after you were granted release by the parole board, I wonder, if you talk a little bit about what that experience was like, you know, over 47 years incarcerated, more of your life inside than outside, what was the most difficult thing for you to adjust? You have a support system. You had your family, and that's a probably a big benefit, but that can only go so far. What was the most difficult adjustment?

Ronnie Carrasquillo

17:42

Everything is like coming out of kindergarten, coming into a society after, when I went into the prison system, the phone, you dialed it with your finger, you know, you turned it with a dial with your finger. You didn't have leather gym shoes, you know, you didn't have any of that. So to come out and and go in a grocery store and see him flashing the little gun to price tag something, or ask you questions of, are you on our number system, or whatever they say, do you want credits for this and that you're at a loss, you're you're in a world you don't know what's going on. So going to grocery store, to go into church and have to actually hold your whoever you're with, hold their sleeve or Hey, don't leave me here, because I don't know where I am. It overwhelms you for a minute, and I'm been here for a year and a half, not even a year and a half, yet, that I'm still being told from family you can't wear that, you can't say that, you know. So I survived in a ugly environment, and it, what worked in there is not it. Don't work over here in this society. So I all the time they see, why? Why? Why can't I wear that? And they say, it's not the season. I just, well, it's just clothes. Well, Google it. I made a comment to my family, I think that couple weeks ago. I said, Who's this? Google telling me what to do? I don't know why. I gotta listen to Google, you know. And I've just learned so much of how this society operates in technology. And that's where my is, my blind spot. That's my in a sense of weakness. So I have to keep younger kids, nieces and nephews and and wait for them to not be busy and say, Could you take me to show me how this goes, or show me this and that and that repetition. So that's that's the overwhelming all you know, because you never stop loving your family. You never stop wanting better for your family. You never stop living for your family. They never stop living for you. When you take somebody into your home, it's like, you know, you have another person in your home. Who's this guy you know. And I hear family talk about it. How is it this guy in your house and all this stuff like that? So coming out of a prison system, after 47 years, you're not walking into having your own home and just walk right into the social stuff that's going on. So it takes that time. So I'm in a learning process every day.

Speaker 1

19:59

How did you get involved with the Illinois Prison Project and talking about your experience like you'll be doing at

Ronnie Carrasquillo

20:04

Heartland? Well, that's a unique that's a unique question. It's a kind of a joke, but I seen an article in a newspaper that said, you know, Illinois Prison Project done this or that, and there was some kind of communication number. So I had my sister check them out, find out where they're at, give me the addresses. And I got the address, and I I typed the proposal to, uh, Jennifer Sobel, I still have the proposal, and it's like a three or four page proposal. And I said, Hey, it's a pretty good name. You got Illinois Prison Project? I said, when you're not so busy, have I got a project for you? So that started back and forth chatter of me explaining to them basic thing that was troubling was when I would go to the prison review board and have the votes that day, I would have seven votes yes and six votes no, and they will not let me go. And they will say, Well, Bob and Jane are not here today, so we're going to count them against you. So not even a legislator can his vote mean anything if he's not there. So who are these people that are authorizing themselves to count people that don't even show up against me? So that was what my trigger was for. Jennifer sober, hey, can you help me get some attention to this thing? You know, they're just doing whatever they want to

Speaker 1

21:24

do. As I mentioned earlier, you and your case are the subject of a PBS documentary. It's called in their hands. If people like to see it, they they have to use Google, probably to find it. But PBS in their hands, it is available for people to watch online. Can you tell us a little bit about how that came about, what brought the attention of these documentarians to your

Ronnie Carrasquillo

21:44

case. The reason the video, the documentary, came out was at that time, they didn't know I was in the courts. We didn't know I was going to get released at that time yet. And every time I got into the courtrooms or the prison Review Board, they would say, we don't want you on our plate. Nobody wanted to touch like it's a political hot potato, you know, the your high profile case, you know, in fear. So they were operating in fear that I had to actually go back to Cook County on reversals that I had to say to the public court, I want to go back to Cook County. No more. Stop reversing me. Do it right here. And they said, Oh, Cook County don't want to listen, and they actually vacated my sentence in the appellate court. So to sit there and see them judges actually, for 47 years, they're telling me, I'm going to die, you're going to die by incarceration. And the pro boards walking me out that death. So all of a sudden I'm sitting in a prison and not have a sentence that just, you know was it was overwhelming. I sat and then the part of that I sat 90 days in prison, which is another illegality without a sentence. And I mean, so, I mean, you have to have a sentence, but I didn't have a sentence. Nobody knew what to do with me. Nobody wanted to put their hands now, I don't want to touch that. I don't want to get involved with that, and to see officers and counselors. You know they would cry. I don't know why they do this like that. And I just say, the more they did to me, the more anger they got. My attorneys, Michael Deutsch, Charles Hoffman and Jennifer sober, so the more they did, they said, how you feel. I said, they can do what they want to do to me, but they're getting you guys mad. So they got a problem, because you guys are not you guys are not going to keep going for it, and that's what released me.

Speaker 1

23:23

Not only that, but this experience, as you say, has been documented, and other people can see the system. I think it's something that the average person has no idea how that works, and they don't understand, even, as you mentioned, some of the constitutional rules offering you that opportunity. So through the documentary, through this other work, people are able to learn more about it.

Ronnie Carrasquillo

23:45

That's what I'm hoping that it happens when, not to be long winded, but um, when the officers or the senator in there say the person not supposed to get this, let them release. The Constitution says to do it. So when no person takes office, whether it's military, state Attorney Senate, they have to put their hand in the Bible and say that, I swear to uphold the Constitution for against foreign, domestic enemies. And then as they get in that in that seat, and they sit there for so long, then they get so much authority where they say, Well, I'm not going to do that. So you're violating the oath that you took to uphold. You know that what you're not going to do, I'm never going to vote for it. I'm never, well, wait a minute, the Constitution says this, yeah, well, I'm not now, you got too powerful now something, something's wrong. That's where the public needs to come in line and say, you know, the training needs to be done because people get hardened in their chairs, and they need to be shorter terms, or some kind of check and balance, because other than that, what they did on the prison Review Board, they put a call out to, let's get more officers on the board. Let's get more state attorneys on the board so we can stop its function. So how would a professional body of people say publicly, let's infiltrate a government agency to stop this function? Function and that that's okay. There's something wrong with that. You know something wrong with that?

Speaker 1

25:05

Well, Ronnie, thank you so much for taking this time today. I appreciate you being with us. Thank you very much. Ronnie Carrasquillo is speaking about his case and his experience with incarceration and re entry with other folks from the Illinois Prison Project. He'll be at Heartland Community College in the spring of 2025 if you're interested in other interviews about the Illinois Prison Project, incarceration and many other topics, subscribe to random acts of knowledge on Spotify Apple podcasts or wherever you heard this one. Thanks for listening. You.

00:0000:00