🌻IPM, Companion Plants, Outdoor Gardening, and Enzyme Sprays, with Marybeth Sanchez

10:19AM Jan 29, 2025

Speakers:

Jordan River

Marybeth Sanchez

Keywords:

IPM nuances

pest management

pollinators

companion planting

enzyme sprays

sulfur pesticide

beneficial insects

spinosad application

garlic barrier

mulching techniques

soil temperature

Dr Zymes

pH optimization

pest identification

organic farming

Greetings, cultivators from around the world. Jordan River here back at you with more grow cast, vacuum sealed and delivered fresh today. Mary Beth Sanchez is back on the line, one of my favorite human beings. This episode is wonderful. We talk about IPM in springtime. We talk about nuances of pest management. We talk about pollinators and companion planting and so much more. I know you're gonna love today's episode, but before we jump into it with Mary Beth Sanchez, shout out to AC infinity, baby acinfinity.com, code growcast One five to get your savings and keep the lights on here at growcast, we appreciate your support, and we love AC infinity. They make the best grow tents around extra thick poles. They've got nice, durable, thick siding. Now they have the new side ports. People have been asking for those and AC infinity lists. And plus, they've got everything else you need to grow. They've got lights and pots and fans, and they're oscillating fans the cloud Ray system. Check out their humidifiers. The cloud Forge. How nice is your humidifier? Maybe it's time to replace that. The cloud rays are my favorite oscillators on the market, and of course, their cloud Line series, what they got it all started with all those years ago when we were partners with AC infinity, all they made were those inline fans, and they're the best in the game. So shout out to the entire AC infinity suite. They've got everything you need to get growing from fans to tents to lights code growcast One five works at AC infinity.com. You support us, and you're getting some badass, durable grow gear while you're doing it. So thank you to all you listeners using code growcast One five and thank you to AC infinity. Okay, let's get into it with Mary Beth. Thank you for listening and enjoy the show. Hello. Podcast listeners, you are now listening to grow cast. I'm your host, Jordan River, and I want to thank you for tuning in again today. Before we get started, as always, I tell you, and I mean it, share this show. Turn someone on to grow cast. Turn someone on to growing we've got some big things in the works, folks to help you turn other people into growers. So stay tuned, and of course, see everything we're doing at growcast podcast.com, forward, slash, action. Can see all the stuff, the classes, the membership, the seeds. You can find it all there. Today we have a grow cast. Team member, back on the line. Beloved team member, my mentor, in so many ways, organic farming specialist, IPM, specialist. Now a beekeeper, a bee farmer. Mary Beth Sanchez is on the line. What's up? Mary Beth, Hi,

how are you? I love your intros. They're fabulous.

It's true, you were capturing hives. You sent me pictures. Oh,

it is interesting time, yeah, or videos,

rather, of like, it'll be a tree branch and it is covered like a sweater. Yeah? Live bees. It's surreal. It's like something out of planet Earth or, you know, a nature documentary, right?

When they all, you know, it's called bib whacking, when they all collect like that, you know, waiting to go to their final destination where they're going to try to create a new colony. So yeah, as the colony gets overpopulated, they all just at one day, decided, okay, you gotta go. And they go. Now, the one that I sent you yesterday, it was okay for a day, and then they were all gone this morning. So they decided they had elsewhere. They didn't really want to stay. They didn't want that spot. But sometimes they do that. It's okay. The other ones we've got, you know, we have, we still have quite a few hives right now. And there's still one in the tree that may come down for the lure that I think is going to be in the mail today. So, irresistible pheromone lure. Oh, wow. And

you're trying to get them to establish in in your B box, right? So you got to, like, make it just right. And you don't know what's going to get them there. We'll get them to stay exactly what they're looking for in a place, you know, how many bedrooms, how many bathrooms?

Yeah, exactly they, you know, they want to just so with the air can and the smell, they'd like it to smell like bees have already been there, but it is a fascinating hobby. But you know, it's one of those things that you have to be careful of, because if you're like us, it's just a hobby. You don't want to have too many so it gets to a point where, okay, now, if anything else forms, we'll just wave goodbye to it, because we just have all that we can

handle it. You're full up. Sounds like me with my seeds? Yeah? This is supposed to be a hobby, right? Yeah, because their plants are spilling out. No, that's really, really cool. I love it. And your honey is on point if, I mean, if you wanted to, you could 100% turn that into your business, because that honey is the best money

I've ever tasted. I'll tell you, I'm hooked on it. It's liquid gold. It is. It's the kind you know it's unadulterated. So that gives you a comforting feeling, because so much of the honey that you buy in a store is totally adulterated. So it's really rare to find real honey on the store shelf. Most people don't even know what real honey tastes like. That's

why we have to keep producing this stuff at home. The same thing is going to happen to. Cannabis Exactly. Take a look at the tobacco plant versus what's in a cigarette. You know what I mean? That's why we all need to grow our own and also just understand, like, it's really cool that you're working with pollinators. It's so important to protect the pollinators. And if we're doing IPM practices, for instance, today's subject, you want to keep in mind things like bees. Because if you don't exactly, yeah, I didn't know that spin a sad killed the shit out of bees. That's like a bacterium. It's like a bio control that I think a lot of people are like, Oh, that. A lot of people consider that a semi safe product, a pretty benign product, but not to be

exactly, exactly. So if you are going to use that, you have to be really careful when you're going to apply it. So we have used it successfully here, but I wouldn't ever like apply it to a fruit tree while it's flowering, because these would be attracted to that tree, and you wouldn't want them to be attracted to it. Now, once the flowering is over, then that's an okay time, because they're not going to go back to it. They don't have any reason to be bothered if you had some pests that was being harbored in there that you didn't want any fruit, that these aren't going to really be attracted to the developing fruit. Oh, that's a good point. If you have overripe fruit, you know, that's a sweet on the vine, they might go for that sugariness, but that's pretty rare, and that, you know, you hopefully harvested before that happens, but you can use it that way. And you never, ever would spray that during the hours of the day that bees are flying anyway, morning time, yeah, yeah. You would definitely wait, because they do go to bed. Sun Goes Down. If you had to spray something like that, that's when you would apply it. And you definitely, like, I say, wouldn't put it near things where the bees are. They have flowers they'd be attracted to.

Okay? So this is a perfect lead in because little things like that, right? You can just spray and not think about what you're doing. Or you can really think about how your IPM practice is going into your garden, how it integrating with nature, and you get into these little nuances, and that's really what we're getting into today. It's a spring IPM overview, and let's call it IPM nuances, some subjects that I think everybody would find interesting and may change the way that you employ IPM in your garden. There's a lot of indoor growers that listen to our show, but a lot of outdoor growers too, and I think that really changes a lot of different applications. And we're going to go over all of it today, starting with these sprays, whether they're bio controls, oil based sprays, whatever, what have you how do you recommend people approach choosing the sprays in their arsenal, or choosing a spray to defeat a specific

foe? Well, part of it is that you have to think about what you're spraying it onto. You know, different plants have different kinds of leaf structures, and some are more delicate and tender and fragile and, you know, papery, and others are more hard and leathery and tough, and they can take a more tougher, abusive thing than the delicate ones can. You know, for instance, if you're spraying a succulent it's going to be a whole different thing than if you're spraying a cannabis leaf, for instance, where the texture of the leaf is so different and so kind of, is it going to be an ornamental thing is, is what you're going to spray on it going to really make an unsightly is this going to be for sale in a nursery where things have to look pretty? Or is it just in my garden where I have a serious issue, I have to kill this thing, or it's going to kill my plants. So, you know, sometimes you can deal with a little cosmetic damage. Sometimes it's a very important thing that you have to avoid. So you know, those factors keep in mind. So for instance, if you have a product that you're going to spray that leaves a lot of residue, you don't want to do that. In a situation where you don't want to see that residue, or in certain situations where it may be harmful to the plant, if it's going to be causing problems with photosynthesis,

oils and things of that nature might,

yeah, dust and, you know, such like they you can squirt, you can put out diatomaceous earth on a lot of things, but it's also going to block a lot of sunlight,

right? Oh, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, the dusts and things of that nature. And

it looks, it looks kind of, you know, what can I say? Right? It's true. That is absolutely true. But sometimes it looks isn't the issue. So sometimes you got to do what you got so and, you know, weigh what is the factor that's most important? Sometimes what's most important is that you got to get something that's going to knock it down now and at least get the majority of the population. So you might use something more intense for that period, and then after you get to huge part of the population now, and you can back off to something more gentle, a little less you know, a lot of the things that we do to kill pests are also stressing the plant to some degree. So that keeps true. That in mind, you don't want to overdo, yeah, you don't want to over stress the plant. Yeah. And certainly, if you intend to rely on biologicals, like, you know, certain bacterias and things that you can put out into your environment that will hopefully keep down populations of targeted pests, those can be really effective, but you can never apply those when you see an outbreak. You can only apply them well before the growing season, really. They need to get their population established as your plants you know, are being put into the ground or before, because otherwise they aren't going to be there for you when you need them. They can only work as a preventative measure that's

not going to cause the knockdown, as you said. Okay, so let's get into those specifics. You mentioned pulling out the big guns. I would like to know what are the kind of nuclear options in your arsenal when you know, let's say you, you're recommending somebody has to knock out a deep infestation. Obviously, we're never reaching for the harmful chemicals your avid your pylons, all that nasty stuff. No, but what's the big guns in your garden? Probably

the thing I would use as my last resort is something like sulfur is as a pesticide, because it is, it is, you know, something you don't want to inhale too much of, and you can't, so you kind of got to be careful in your application rate. And it can have such a long lasting effect in the soil, if you get too much build up, you know, your plants, of course, need some in your biology needs some. But it can easily be too much if you're using it in such a way that, because you had to kill a pest, you're going to need to apply more than the normal amount that you would have as a nutrient supplement, for instance. Okay, so it can just be a little bit much in that regard. But if I had to do it, I have recommended it to people, and it's their last resort. It has worked, but usually something else will work first, you know, if you can get on it in time, part of the problem is some of the worst pests, you know, you just don't see them till they're way out of control. Yep. And you know, like if you had a rust at my infection, and then you said, I gotta get you some grand devils. It's not going to do you any good at that point. You could put it out, and it might do you good for your next year's prevention, but this year, it's too late. Hit them with

the sulfur and veg, especially because, you know, depending on your plant, you know, cannabis, you're not going to want to use anything on those flowers, except for maybe like an enzyme product. So if you're too far along, maybe that's the only time where you're going to have some sort of crop loss. Otherwise, if you're in veg, nail them with that sulfur. Now, a couple of nuances about sulfur. You can't mix oil and sulfur, right?

Exactly. You don't want to put that in rotation together. They're going to burn it cause some sort of burning on the plant, right? It can actually kill the plant. And if it doesn't kill it, I mean, it just makes it look like you put it below torch or something, it's really looks awful.

No mixing oil. Don't play nicely. You know? What else doesn't play nicely is your LED light, or, I imagine, any light, and that sulfur, the light manufacturers, Dr Coco told us this. They're they're obsessed with keeping sulfur off these diodes, because if you get some sulfur on there, it will ruin those diodes. It'll make them less effective, and eventually it'll shut them off and corrode them. So that's another little nuance when it comes to spraying sulfur in a tent. So

yeah, if you're indoors, you've actually recommended to take your lights out if you're going to scrape

that's what they say. At least raise them up, get them out of the line of fire. Extracting the light from the tent is a pretty big ask, but that's why I like the that's why I like the photon text,

oh, it is. But you know what? The the the old technology was to put a vaporizer. So a sulfur vaporizer, it's true, those little pellets and so that would be completely filling your chances. You would want to have your lights out for that situation. Holy shit.

I didn't even think about that. And I'd imagine, you know, there's not an exposed diode with the HIVs, but I imagine it's not great for those bulbs either. Damn sulfur burner. Good God, about the sulfur burner? Yeah? Really. Good point. Real. Penetrative. Yeah, that's, that's a nice elemental solution. Yeah,

it's like, if all else has failed, that will usually do it. But, you know, sometimes there is a trade off. So the

sulfur is, you know, same thing with the oils. It's maybe not the plant's favorite thing in the world, but it'll be fine. It's really not too harmful on the plant, and you'll get a nice result on both soft bodied and hard bodied insects, right? That's another nuance I want to highlight. Is, you talk about this all the time. Mary Beth, which is, like, you know, some examples of the more soft bodied insects, like mites, right? Spider mites or aphids, yeah, they're so easy to

kill. Russ, it

might see, right? Whereas the hard bodies is a different game, yeah?

Just spray something on and is not you pretty much have to have some kind of a toxic poison or a biological thing that's going to make them sick.

How would sulfur fare against, like a beetle or something that's really hard bodied,

you know, it would probably work more on their grubs. I'm thinking, yeah, maybe if it got into their respiratory, you know, little vessels that could probably cause them some trouble. Because, you know, you just nobody should be taking in excessive amounts of sulfur. That's probably what couldn't get almost any insect, you know, if you clog up their breathing holes, that'll do it. But the bigger the bug and the bigger the three. Holes,

yeah, but the sulfur, I know is, is super effective versus most of your cannabis pests, which is why cannabis growers love it, right? And oils, I would put in that same category, like you're saying that smothering process, yes, you don't need guns bigger than that, let's be honest. Like

exactly those are going to do the trick, kind of an either or thing that, yeah.

Now outdoors, it's a different game. Outdoors, you might run into some grasshoppers outdoors, you're going to be able to introduce, like you said, beneficials before you even have a problem, and they're going to be easier to keep around in that outdoor garden than they are to keep around in your indoor garden. It's just much less applicable to have those beneficial insects inside versus outside. I mean, some people still get away with it, don't get me wrong. I'm not knocking anybody, but if you're outdoors, definitely be considering implementing those beneficials. Yeah, what do you like? Mary Beth, what are you going to release in your garden if you have a brand new outdoor garden space, what are you throwing out there? As far as beneficials,

right now, I've got a pretty good population going in my yard, just because over the years, I've put out things like predatory wasps and, oh, nice nematodes. But I'm thinking, what else would I put up? Probably I would get more predatory wasps. The reason is that, especially outdoors, they go for so many different targets, they will go for almost everything that you consider a pest, kill everything that's wild, almost everything that you consider a pest. I mean, they're super tiny. They're like the size of a mosquito, basically. But they go and they parasitize things, and they are pretty good at getting around to just about every kind of thing that you consider a pest in your outdoor garden. Yeah, if

I was born with a poison sword on my ass, I'd probably want to use it on everything too. Yeah,

yeah. Well, if I start seeing cucumber beetles, I will spray spinosad. But like I say, that would be after the sun's gone down, and not during the time when flowers are blossoming, and right now flowers are blossoming, that doesn't last very long. The next thing you know, the fruit starts forming. And then, as you can it's safe to do that after, you know, the bees have gone to bed, but that would be only if I saw them. If I don't see them, I'm not going to just put it out if I don't, because it works fairly quickly, once you do, you know, and, and I usually only will see very few. I haven't had, like, a, really, what I call an infestation. That's, you know, here and there. There's some cucumber beetle, those ones with the little four lines down them, and they also come with the little spots down the back, which is two versions of those, yeah. And they're like, you know, quarter of an inch or half an inch long. They're really visible. But they'll go around, they'll eat all these little veggies. No, your holes in your cannabis, only holes in every leaf that's tender and lovely. And you're just like, Oh, stop it. So a lot of times I just go around and smash them with my hand. But if I notice there's a few, then I will think about, Okay, I'm gonna have to spray some

spinosad. Okay, so I want to ask, because the Spinosad is a bacterium, correct? Yeah, I think it was discovered. A member told me that it was discovered at some broken down rum distillery or something. Somebody discovered,

no, actually, it was what they were mining bauxite in Jamaica, because that's what they need to make aluminum, and bauxite is one of those vitals for making aluminum. And they had a mine there, and for some reason it was found in that mine and nowhere else. Oh, that's fascinating that anyone's ever found on Earth. And so all that they've cultured since then is from that original string, but it seemed to have this effect where it would get into an insect and make it sick and kind of give it a flu or some sort why

certain insects and not others like or more specifically, what does it work on? Right? Because I've used it for thrips with great success, and that was indoors, where I don't really worry about bees. You know what I mean? I don't hear it for I don't hear it being used for things like spider mites. It's just interesting how it affects some things and not others. Well,

you know, that's true of most, almost all pesticides. If you look at the labels that tell you these are the targeted insects that they you know, none of them are going to tell you that it takes care of 100% of that's just fascinating, of everything. Well, yeah, because they have, you know, something in their biology, something that makes them immune to it, or whatever, are super susceptible, you know, in the case of the ones that are being killed. But yeah, you know, they all have something, something going on in physical systems. So yeah, if there's something you can use, and Bavaria basana is another one that if I feel I need to, I will use it, but that's really rare because it is so broad spectrum, and I want more diversity and outdoor gardens, especially because we've got like, three acres and we're in the woods. So diversity is usually not hard to achieve. Okay, I just don't want to be killing off apps. Absolutely everything, but we are susceptible to all kinds of things coming in. Yeah,

absolutely so that Bavaria is broad spectrum. Really good bio control, but you want to keep that diversity. They

say it doesn't kill the bees. But I'm always a little precautious. And you know, I can say you wait till the sun goes down to spray anything, really, just because of the moisture and the droplets, if nothing else, you don't want to do that, magnifying burning for something

the foop. Everyone certified organic nutrients, clone, gel and more. Huge. Thank you to the foop. You can find them at the foop.com, code, grow, cast, always. The foop was the presenting sponsor for the community cup. It was the biggest, most impactful event growcast has ever done, and foop made it possible. Not only do they care about saving the environment and making organic nutrients that don't harm the wildlife and habitats around the world, but they also care about the cannabis community enough to put on the community cup. Huge. Thank you to the foop. There at the foop.com you can find certified liquid organic nutrients made from fish waste, everything your plant needs, plus their mist is an amazing foliar, also completely organic based off of the nutrients. They've got a clone gel that I absolutely love. I get these beautiful, white, fuzzy blooms every time I take clones thanks to the foop clone gel. And you can find out all the information and more from thefoop.com as well as in our Discord, where Kyle from the foop, will answer any of your questions. Shout out to Kyle for giving his presentation at the community cup as well. It's formulated for cannabis. It's certified organic. It is 100% natural, and you can find it at the foop.com use code, grow cast on your nutrients, on your mist, on your gel, and remember, be healthy, go organic, use food. On the subject of diversity, let's talk about companion planting. I would love to get a quick rundown. We are outdoors in this scenario, and we want to attract beneficials. We want to repel pests. What are some great tips for other plants to grow alongside our cannabis? Well,

there's always the the, I want to say, the salvia groups, that the ones that are commonly known the the rosemary and the lavender, those nice, super aromatic things, those are really good for attracting and repent, you know, attracting the one you want and repelling ones that you don't want. But there's a plant called tansy. Tansy, T, A, N, S, Y, and it is known for repelling ants. But you've got to use, you know, plant plenty of it. Don't plant just a little bit if you've got an ant issue somewhere or somewhere that you really want to keep ants away, plant all out of it. And Mint is another one that's known to be really repellent to a lot of pests, and this especially known to be repellent to rodents. But it's another thing where you've got to plant plenty of it to expect to see noticeable results when you plant mint. You may know, if you ever planted it, it will grow everywhere, and you easily get plenty of it if you don't just pull it all up. But if you're trying to, like, plant something to particularly repel something, put in a lot initially, just so that you can really have that strong aroma. No,

that's a good point. If it's just one little like, you know, rinky dink patch, the gopher isn't gonna be repelled. But if it's a goddamn, you know, Wall of mint, then it's gonna avoid that area. That makes a lot of sense. And

you can put things in your potted plants, like garlic and onion, put them in along with whatever else you're planting, and that will repel a lot of insects from the soil area a little bit because of these strong aromas. Say that a lot of pests just don't like it now, under the soil, like we talked about the other day, mean, is a good thing to put in the soil, but just to have those aromas going out into the world of the onion and garlic all around your plants, helps a little bit to keep things away, and it doesn't harm whatever you're growing. It's just part of that. Things growing, you know, all in the same pot. Can you can grow a lot of things all in the same pot, but you're not going to get an infestation of anything on your onions or whatever. Nice I've never seen it happen. A lot

of the aromatic plants, you're saying rosemary, lavender, mint, these are all super aromatic herbs. Essentially,

one thing I've heard is, as a repellent for gophers, is you can, like, uh, kind of rot a bunch of onions and things and put them in your gopher holes, and they hate the smell, so they'll probably just dam up the hole behind it every time you see another hole you go harassing was rotten, rotting. Chase them. Yeah, chase them out to the neighbors. Oh, I like that. Cat. Castor Oil is another thing that is really repellent to gophers where, and it's kind of repellent to you, too, if you're ever. Spread it around. It doesn't smell really great. It's just kind of, I don't know how to describe it, but there's a product called mole Max, which is what they recommend for you to put into your gopher and mole holes to repel them. It doesn't kill them. But we've had people tell us it worked really great for them, you know the most, their neighbors, mole Max, neighbors. If they get all your neighbors to use it, you might chase them out of town.

The Mole Max hit him with the Castro. What does castor oil not do? I hear all these, you know, old wives tale. Hit it with some castor oil. Well, it's

such a strong aroma that it definitely can be repellent to things. But, yeah, it has all kinds of medicinal qualities. It's a trippy stuff.

Man. Yeah, I know those rodents can be a huge problem too. Yes,

a lot of people have to plant with a wire around the stem. You know, just put some kind of chicken wire, or, I'm trying to say, steel wool or something, where you put it around your stems, just to keep the dang things from chewing your skin, because they will come and do this. It's a

whole different ball game. What do you need to get? Like a BB gun, you know what I mean? Like you said physical, physical barriers at that point, yeah, which you can't use on smaller insects and pests, obviously, but once you get to the size of rodents, it's like you're trying to keep them out. I like the wall of mint. That's a good, like, druidic approach to attacking animals. And yeah, that's that's just really tough, because they'll fuck up your garden really, really bad. I had some success with garlic barrier. Steve raisner, good friend of the show, Steve raisner was like, get some garlic barrier. Which pros and cons? Pros, the stuff really worked, like it seemed to really repel a broad spectrum of of things, even the scorpions, not to the degree that I wanted to, but it helped. It was clearly helping keep away all sorts of different pests. The downside is this stuff was essentially just pressed garlic, and it was expensive. It was like $80 for the fucking jug. So I'm thinking I might press your own garlic. I might press my own garlic for $80 you know what I mean, start my own garlic barrier business. Maybe because it was really expensive for what amounted to something that I could have grown impressed myself. So maybe if you if you have the money, or if you have a garlic press, you might want to look into garlic barrier. It's a very cool product. And I think they also threw in capsaicin. I think was this kind of secret ingredient. So it's hot, and you spray it around the yard, and your your yard smells delicious. Steve said, your whole yard smells like Thai food,

which is kind of true, really nice. Yeah, the stronger the smells, the more repellent it's going to be to the various pests, right? And if you want to attract beneficial insects, you're looking for most plants with the tiny kind of flowers, or with the disc flowers, like the sunflowers or the Yarrow things like that with a flat surface. Oh, really, they love to walk in there and just point blank. Oh, and I tell you, poppies are super attractive. Oh,

I've never heard that. I love that smaller flowers and ones that are shaped like discs.

Yeah, yeah. The flowers that are going to attract the most little, tiny predator, you know, things like the Wasp and things. They especially love the little, tiny ones, because they can access those with the pollen and nectar super

easily, one after another.

So they're very, very attractive to them. They've got a lot of long term food source in there, and if you know, as they're cruising around your garden, they'll see little things up close that you don't see at all.

Yeah, that's crazy. I like that. Yeah,

no. Go parasitize various insects that you are not wanting in your garden.

What other flowers do you recommend planting for attracting or repelling or just, just because,

just because, well, just like, I think things that have a lot of fun nectar are really nice. But a lot of the you know, things that are just like pollen and nectar, things were like the apple trees, the fruit trees, things like that, they'll have a really short duration of flowering. And so you want to have something that's flowering at all times of the year. Some things will flower early spring. Something was a flower. Late spring, early summer, you want to always have something going on. So there's never a period of time where there's nothing flowering. Because, you know, even if it isn't their favorite flower, they might go to their lots of favorite power, just so long as there's some flowers. Oh,

is that why? Like milkweed? Is milkweed one of those flowers? Is that? Why? They recommend you plant those.

Well, that's especially beneficial for the monarch butterfly. This is the only thing that they eat, and we've wiped out so much of it across the United States, really one of their main migration routes, because we've had these people planting mono crops of corn, wheat and soybeans and things for just miles and miles, miles, miles and miles, as far as the eye can see, in every direction. And they wipe out the milk weed because they put down their Monsanto or their whatever, their glyphosate before they plant. And so where does the word is the monarch get any food? I mean, for miles and miles and miles, it's really, really hard. So the monarchs have suffered, and so they do encourage you to plant milkweed everywhere you can. It does become somewhat invasive, but it's also really easy to pull out if you are getting too much of it. So you know, you can keep a balance there so that there's some food for these horrors and monarch, and you can still enjoy your garden and have other things too. Exactly

I at this point, little left turn from IPM into gardening tips. Mary Beth is, you know, she's, she's a treasure trove of knowledge. So I gotta get, I gotta get some troubleshooting here, because last year I moved down to Oklahoma, planted outside record heat wave. It was very hot summer. It was, it was not the best growing season. But this year, my garden looks good, but I'm still like, just basically going with what works. For instance, I got the butterfly milkweed out there, and I couldn't keep it alive. So here's my first question to you. I have had, we're just going in blind. I'm just your average grower. I have had trouble keeping ornamental flowers alive. What do you think my problem is? Sight unseen? What are some common problems?

Oh, just got black thumbs. Yeah, right. It's true.

I mean, I know how to grow cannabis real well. I struggle with the flowers. I think it might be too much light. I don't know you tell me what like common problems are with ornamentals.

It's gonna depend on the species and things, they all have different needs. They're all different. You know, so often if you're trying to plant directly into the soil, and you haven't really been there a long time, so you don't know how things you're going to behave in that soil. And a lot of times, you find out that there's something really toxic going on in the soil. If you haven't had it tested, there could be soil sometimes, okay, possibly, for sure, shouldn't be the case. Well, especially if somebody has been lining it for year after year after year after year consistently, which often people do, it will collect a little ways down and make a hard pan that roots can't grow through, and roots will die touch that. So that often happens. So you think, what am I doing wrong? But it's really something that's happening down in this lower root zone where the drainage suddenly stops.

I'll take, I'll take shitty soil for 200 what else? What else do we got great

possibility. It is a possibility. Yeah. The other thing is, you know, did you mulch? Mulch? Mulch? You know, six to eight inches is not an absurd level for mulch. You just don't want it to actually touch the plant. You want to make sure that the mulch is just like so you can still put your finger around because you don't want when you wet your mulch, you don't want the wet mulch against the stem of a plant, keeping it wet and causing a stem rot. So you want to mulch out the soil to make sure that it stays cool and that the biology in the soil has a chance to really dry. But literally, you can go six to eight inches weirdness, because it keeps breaking down, breaking down, breaking down. So you know you'd have to replenish it as time goes by, your

perfect mulch scenario looks different than mine. You're saying, first of all, thicker than mine. And then also, around the base of the plant, you have just a little bit of exposed, bare soil, because you don't want it directly coming, yeah, that's beautiful.

I like to like, so at least I got a, you know, the size of my finger. I want at least that the length of space, just a little so, yeah, you got a little air in there. That's

good for indoor mulchers too. Holy shit. That is. That is dope. And I like, you know, what I like is I like that real thick layer of rice holes. And then even outdoors, I just laid a few wood chips on top of the rice holes to weight them down from the wind. And I am loving it. Now. Here's my one complaint, when I need to go add seeds to my bed, I just need to dig through that mulch, right? You don't, you don't plant them into exactly

No, no. You actually have to pull it back with your planting seeds or seedlings, you know, and when, when they get a little bit more established, then you put it up around them, but, you know, like I say, not actually touching, but as close as you can get without touching and that should do the trick. You know, you want them to have that soil temperature to a happy place for the roots. And so often it's the soil temperatures what really throws them. I say, if you have a good mulch, your your soil temperature was G usually pretty consistent at a level, at. At a temperature that's comfortable and happy for the plants, whereas, if you're out of just a really thin mulch, or no mulch at all, oh god. I mean you literally, the roots just get baked. Yeah,

I know, right. And remember guys that you you talked about this before Mary Beth? I don't, I don't remember what episode it was on most recently, but shade those roots. You know, my raised beds are like fabric raised beds and rain science pots, and they're made of a dark material, and so I need to put something over those on the Sun side to make sure that the sun isn't just beating into that bed and heating it up and cooking the root zone. Oh,

especially if you're in a plastic pot. They really, literally, you can take your plants out of a plastic pot that's been sitting in like hay, pork sun on the afternoon, they're black. They're boiled alive in there, so you definitely have to cover them with something. And if you're even in the fabric pots, it can get so freaking hot, it's really good to kind to your pocket, to just at least on that sunny side where the afternoon sun, the morning sun's not usually so brutal. It's the afternoon sun that just gets so harsh. If you can put some kind of a skirt, some kind of a cloth, anything to just give it that little bit of shade makes the difference between tolerable and just, I, you know, I can't take this, and that's part of why things will get stunted. Because, you know, root pruning is one thing, but just trying the roots, Lord, that's a bit much,

yeah? And, you know, I just threw up a 30% shade cloth, and some of the plants just started taking off because it was too sunny for them. It's too warm for them. Yeah, and I just put a shade over the whole thing. So thank you. You know constant learning process. And I love how I love how deep you go on the nuances. Is something as, quote, simple as mulching. That's really, really, super, super cool. Okay, but let's see here, back to back to the IPM talk. Let's bring it back around. I liked what you said about your hierarchy of of, you know, power your your power rankings of sprays, the sulfur at the top, and, you know, the oil kind of up near there, and you know, maybe some of the more natural products beneath that, like your ferments and stuff like that. And then the most gentle, most effective, the only one that I'll use in flower, the Dr zymes enzyme formula. This is the one that's like my go to that I'm using all the time. And you know, it leaves no residue, as I said, it's the only one that I will spray in flower. And you work with these people, you you found out about this product, and I know you just jumped on board as as part of the team, is that your go to spray? I mean, we know it is.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, what happened? I was fortunate to get involved in the beta testing of that product, and they were first trying to get it out. And so before that, I had been going through the routine of rotating this and that other product to do my IPM in the nursery where I worked. And so what I loved about that doctor signs when I got it was the I didn't have to rotate anymore. I could pretty much rely on just doing that all every week. And it was, yeah, like I said, it was really the way that it treated the plants, you know. And this is part of what we worked on, was what are the right ratios to use. So, you know, you have to just be careful when you're measuring. And you know, the effect of the of the pH and the effect of the temperature does matter with that, because it works much better if you get those things in the optimal position. But I the plants just seem to respond so beautifully, because they came out so clean looking and so happy looking, and just it really took care of the issues, and took care of a broad range of issues, such as the russet mites and the aphids and spider mites and the broad mites, and Even powdery little, oh yeah, and all of those little Rotty diseases, little butcher not to mention botrytis. But there's a certain sorts of STEM rotting diseases that just you spray it on that it would be gone and dead and the plant would survive. It was very encouraging, the way it seemed to respect the biology as well. If you interested in keeping your soil biology healthy and thriving, you know people who are worried, is this going to kill my soil biology? I was able to tell from my own experience that it actually doesn't. It will knock it back for a day or so, but it bounces back so quickly because it's the soil biology is actually strong enough to survive even drenching with Dr Symes. If it's beneficial biology, the beneficial thing about the not beneficial biology is that it's easier to kill. It is able to be wiped out and not return. There's the beneficial biology will. Return in just like I said, a day or two, it bounced right back even I was applying Dr Simon's directly to my compost heap,

so equivalent to, like, a soil drench type of situation, really drench

in direct, high dosage. So it's like, Hey, that was pretty neat for me to discover and really see for myself.

So let's talk about that. Let's talk about using Dr zymes optimally. This is not a partner of ours. Dr zymes has never been an advertiser. They've never been a sponsor. I've literally been a big fan of this product because of its natural applications and it's its ability to be used with I mean, I don't know if you guys recommend this, but I spray it with the lights on. It's so fucking benign. It's it's super effective and super super gentle. Like I said, this is not a paid sponsorship by any means. This is just tips on using this product because you want to use it optimally, to get the best out of it and to make sure that it is completely gentle and safe for your plants. So I wanted to take time on this podcast, because I've been answering so many questions, I want to record it out here on the main RSS feed and say you should be using it at a certain temperature. You should be using it at a certain pH. There's optimal ways to use it. So can we go over those? Now? Mary Beth,

yeah, yeah. Because it is really different from other products, and so you do have to kind of make a special point of telling people how it works most optimally. And that is just that it the ingredients in it need. They work best at a pH of between six and seven, just straight somewhere in there is fine. And they work best at a temperature of approximately 90 Fahrenheit, which is, I think, 32 in centigrade. And it will work okay at a lower temperature, but it will work so much better at that temperature that I try to keep it as close to that as I can possibly keep it during my process of spraying, and keep my whole pH at that point, while I'm in the process of spraying, and I just use it really thoroughly, and it has just made all the difference. If I had a thing that was stubborn, it usually turned out that as I looked back, I went, Oh yeah, I was using cold water. So the warm water, that's probably where I went wrong. So then you get the water warmed up and try it again, and you know, everything works fine. And that stresses some people out that they have to go to that extra effort. But for me, it's worth because the plants just seem so beautiful afterwards, and other people that I've heard give me feedback about it, were just positive all the way. So it was encouraging to me that I wasn't just imagining it. It really did seem to do the job. The

enzyme products are the best because what they just do their job, breaking down soft bodied insects, mildews and things like that, and then just dissipate once. It's not a living being, right? It's just it literally a a chemical reaction that's taking place on the surface of the leaf, right?

It's kind of like, well, when water evaporates, what do you have left? When water evaporates, if you don't have water, it's just not it's not fair. So that's kind of the thing that I liked about that is when it evaporates, it's really gone, whereas certain other oil type sprays, they'll stay on the leafs and some residue for up to 10 days. Sometimes, you know, it'll dissipate more quickly, maybe between five and seven days even. But it, it can be up to 10 days before the oil is really dissipated. So it's just not quite as clean. It doesn't look as happy to me, and they have more of a tendency to develop photo toxicity, whereas with the doctor signs, the only time I've had any photo toxicity was when I just very cavalierly, in the middle of afternoon, sprayed it on some mysterious ones and one, I don't know what I was thinking. I was in another zone or something, but then I noticed the next day, oh, well, I probably shouldn't have done that right at that hour of the day. I mean, they didn't look awful, but you could tell they were a little bit yellowed out. Yeah, they were said, hey, hey, you know, don't do that. There you go. You

know, I like to get a little bit outside of the out of the recommendations, but, but speaking of recommendations for the dosages, two ounce per gallon preventative, right? And then four ounce per gallon with an infestation,

exactly, boom, exactly that. Now that's cannabis plants. Okay? There are maybe some plants where you could go stronger, like a philodendron or something with a big fat, leathery leaf. You could maybe go stronger if you had to, but cannabis is a tender leaf plant, so four ounces to gallon is maximum. To be kind to that leaf. You don't want to dissolve your leaf, dissolve the pest,

and just a drop of unscented, odorless soap for an extra kicking power. In veg you can

if you've got some really tough, like, adult spider mites, that's one of the things that helps to break down their waxy coding, because they can get really, like, you know, crusty old farts, and they're really hard to kill so and they keep having babies. So then, you know, sometimes that's all the extra little kick you need, and that's the one thing that is fine to add to that if you really need to. Otherwise, you don't really necessarily need it. It can be helpful, though, it under those tough conditions. If that is the case, and I would definitely, you know, want to be not really spraying much in the light, if I was using any soap additive at all, because soap tends to be the primary burner plants, if you're getting that under the lights. So do it in the evenings, or do it in the lights out period. I mean, it's okay to spray it with the lights on if you're about to turn them off. It's okay to see what you're doing and then turn them off. You know, just don't have the light burning on and for length of time while they're wet, because just the potential to burn your leaves. Yeah,

I mean, you get kind of brazen with it because the product is so gentle, like, that's why I kind of push the limits on that. You

I have done it myself, and, you know, I usually doesn't backfire. It's like I said, leave that one time when I was in the really was the peak of the heat of the day. And that's crazy, girl,

I wash my hands in the stuff. I use it as a cleaner. It's, it's a really interesting product, and if you use it properly, and to the specifications that Mary Beth has outlined, I think you'll like it too. So, yeah, we just, we support them here. Yeah,

yeah. It doesn't give you any skin irritation. It doesn't have any weird, toxic odors. It's like, really nice. If you accidentally get it on your skin, it's actually not an okay thing to wash with, to bathe with, even it's safe for, you know, skin contact and all that kind of thing. The bottle, of course, has to label to be precautious, because it's sold as a pesticide and that sort of legal requirement. But in reality, you can actually bathe in it. And I have,

I'm not joking, I do. I do wash my hands in it. It works well. Works well for a

good pet. Yeah, yep, 100% I've heard all sorts of stuff, so shout out to Dr zymes again. No paid sponsor, nothing like that. We do love them, and we've been talking about them for years. And they're also helping out with Pesta Palooza, sending samples out. But, yeah, we've been supporting them for years, and we're going to continue, because the IPM field is so toxic, and it's such a big part of the damage that's being done by farming that when a product like that can come out that's, you know, virtually harmless, it's so like, that's what we need to that's what we need to talk about on shows like mine. So I just want to shout them out. Yeah,

thank you. No toxic stuff in there. And yes, surprisingly, I don't get any money from Dr Symes. Just I've been a devoted fan since I got to use it. And I don't think I'd be saying it if I didn't believe it would bug me too much. You know what I mean? It would have been my sensibilities. We're going

to have them on the show as soon as possible. Maybe we can work something like that out where, where we can do a Mary Beth interview, or we'll talk about that for sure. Because, yeah, I just, I love talking about these types of products and the organic producers out there, yeah, thank you. Mary Beth, this was a lovely episode. Thank you for spending this time with me today. It has been

my pleasure, sir, and we can do it again one day. Yes, and hopefully it'll be as glorious today, today. Well, you

are just the best. Mary Beth, we appreciate you so much. You're such a great member of the community. And I just want to say thank you on air. We love you. We love everything you're about, all your education, again, helping in the order of cultivation. Seriously, appreciate you so much. Right back

at you, Mr. Appreciate everything about you, and thank you for having that community there. It really has been a pleasure for me being involved.

Oh, you're the best. You're the best. All right, go enjoy your lovely day, and good luck with the swarms.

All right, take care. Bye. Mary Beth.

Mary Beth, everybody, and you can find Mary Beth in our membership program every single day. Get some free access right now. Go to grow cast podcast.com/membership, join today Monday, and you will get refunded your joint fee, so you can check out 30 days free and hang out with Mary Beth and I where we are every single day. But I just appreciate you guys listening so much that is all for now. This is Mary Beth Sanchez and Jordan River signing off, wishing you an extraordinary day out there. Bye, bye. Everybody be safe and grow smarter. You music. That's our show. Thank you so much for tuning in. And thank you to Mary Beth Sanchez, if you liked this pest exploration, I know you're gonna love Pesta palooza. That's right me and Matthew gates, the one and only sink Angel from xenthanol Consulting, we are gonna be putting. On a pest of palooza. It is a master class in pest management and identification. It is a long form q, a, and it is a catered after party. We are in Long Island on June 3. Come and see us. Long Island June 3. Get your tickets at growcast podcast.com/classes, code, grow cast will save you $20 on Pesta palooza. Don't miss this one. It comes with a massive goodie bag. Actually mentioned it in this episode. Dr Symes is pitching in on that, but that's just the beginning. Folks, we have magnifying glasses that you can use to spot critters in your garden. We're gonna have bio controls, custom stickers, a pest quick reference ID card. You're gonna love the Pesta Palooza class and the gift bag and the after party. Come and see us. Li hydro, thank you to Long Island hydro for hosting us. That is Saturday, June 3 in Bethpage, New York. Get your tickets. Everybody. Code grow cast at growcast podcast.com/classes, I can't wait to see you there so we can burn one together and hang out with Matthew gates, All right, everybody, that's it for today. Thank you so much. We have more grow cast coming at you. Yeah, I'm gonna go burn down the rest of this joint and call it a day. Thank you for tuning in. Stay tuned. We got more. You know it. Love you all. Bye, bye. You

just because I.