Q1 - Joe Marinucci & Garrett White - Kingdom Warrior
2:06PM Mar 8, 2022
Speakers:
Garrett J. White
Joe Marinucci
Keywords:
board
fernando
happening
robbie
fuck
people
mountain biking
run
emily
fucking
ceo
weeks
stay
business
create
joe
ski
experience
release
divorce
Coach man, good morning. So, eventful weekend he bears. eventful week with Emily eventful week with the team. I didn't get here what happened last Monday. See how that went down with you Fernando. I'm excited to get a little update on that. I'm excited to hear about what's going on the board. More importantly, I'm excited to hear about what's going on with you and see if we can assist I have a feeling there are some things you want for you that are very similar to things I've been discussing already with several guys in the past like three days. There seems to be this wave of it. Hitting a whole lot of super producers right now. So let's start with some let's start with some positive give me a Why is Joe Marunouchi excited about being being alive right now?
Well, I I'm excited about being alive. I'm going to Colorado this coming week with the kids. And Dave Days A while brothers brothers will be out there will be skiing together. Parents might come to and I think the Stephanie may come for the second half of it. Okay, new girl.
I know. I know who we're talking about. All right. Okay, so we got a little 10 days out in Colorado. We still got snow. I mean, we got skiing we got
some rock Colorado's loaded like unbelievable. Like especially up where I'm at that high up there. They're loaded
you do what you doing? Like heliskiing you get dropped off like that yet or like are you that intense or like you you just a crush the mountain downhill like diamond guy.
I mean, I do it all. Coach. I went up to Alaska and skied Denali. You probably don't know anybody that's done that except me.
Yes. I know. I'm confident I doubt it's all the way up to ski that ski that down his helicopter.
No, you skin up. skied down.
Oh shit. How long does that take? To get up?
It took me three weeks.
Oh, my gosh. So you climb all the way up carrying your skis with you the whole time and then ski down. How long a ski down. Take a day.
Oh, yeah, you'd be down today. Yeah.
Do you stop like long way I would assume you're not just like gunning. Straight and carry packs all the way down skin. Yeah, that's right. Well, that is the why is that don't surprise me. You are the man of adventure. When it comes to all of those things. What do you find in the middle of all those activities? By the time you're done besides the depression that always follows after an elite experience? Like that, and the sense of awe, but in the moment of it like right at the finish like when you're done like when you get through it or in the middle of it where where do you find the most power in it?
It's like it's not like it is a detox because it causes you to create this massive Pattern Interrupt in your life where you let go of everything. And you have to focus on this one thing or you could fucking die.
Do you feel that way ever mountain biking or is it different? So definitely not gonna die when you're mountain biking? Well, I mean it depends on crazy you get downhill but
I think there's an aspect of it in a race like Leadville race because you with with Okay, so mountain biking like the Death aspect of it may not exist. But what does exist is you have to be so hyper focused when you're mountain biking, especially going downhill. Because if you make a mistake going 25 miles an hour 30 miles an hour downhill on a mountain bike on a fairly technical route like the ones I ride. You go headfirst into a fucking tree. You could be a cripple your broken leg like you have it creates the it's like a hack it's like the same thing without the extremists have like disappear for three weeks. It's it's a it's a hack, right? So that's why you know I love mountain biking so much because three things happen. A you get the dopamine release, be you're outside in nature, so you're detached from reality. See, it requires an extreme level of focus on a task where if you don't complete it, you know, you could fuck up and get significantly injured. So causes that release. Yeah.
Yeah. Have you felt that at all? Like, I know you went out a little bit surfing. You went out a few times did that did that quickly? Or is that something you continue to like try a little bit or what's happening there.
I feel the same thing with the surfing because there's this aspect of it where you have to release of your fear. You know, because it's like the shark thing. Like, I guess to be a surfer. You just have to accept that like you're in the water with them. Right? So there's that. You know, for me, there's also this aspect of I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. And, you know, I've already been like, bombed a couple of times. And now I have like this respect for the ocean. I'm like, Okay, I better be fucking careful what I'm doing here because if I am not careful, you know, not gonna, I guess you could drown but like the reality is is like I could get hurt, right? So it creates the same effect where you have to release and focus release and focus and if you can find things that are in a position where you have a lot of stress for people like us, and I'm guessing this is where, you know, elite people want to surface and why they keep pushing themselves is because they want to keep it it's like anything else. Like you want to keep chasing that high. You get in the high comes from the release, right? So you can't get the release if you don't keep pushing yourself. Right? Right. You just keep surfing the three foot waves you're like, you know, I'm not I don't even focus anymore, right. So that's I'm guessing that's the progression in surfing, which is the same progression in mountain biking, which is the same progression and big mountain scheme. That's why I loved Colorado so much because there were so many things that I could do. That would give me that release. And then when I left Colorado, I knew I knew now I know I understand it I'm like this was a huge mistake, because I need these releases and I can't get them anywhere else. I can get them a little bit here surfing but I need you know, I need a certain environment to be able to get that and it's very valuable to me because it's it's very much like you know people do you know these these these these like mini acid trips now and they're doing it for the release right where you don't have to get on a mountain bike or go to fucking Alaska or paddle out to fucking 12 foot fucking swell, right like you just like eat a piece of chocolate right? Okay, good. Yep.
Have you have you and your team's gotten into that? microdosing No. Hasn't Have you haven't tried it at all.
I'm guessing that's what we're doing a Clara Vita.
Yeah, that's basically what we're doing. Yeah,
I mean, I was out. And when I was out in California a couple of weeks ago, I had dinner with my buddy, Billy Baldwin, you know, the actor. We're really close. And he told me he's been doing it and he says he loves it. But I mean, the way he's doing it like was a little fucked up like he's doing at a party. He's drinking. He's dancing. He's like hooking up like it was a bit of a disaster. The way he described it to me and I thought about I'm like, this seems like intimate night Home Alone type of thing. You eat a piece of chocolate you chill for like, because it's like 10 minutes and you're Oh, you're over like, you know, so I was like, why would you just do this on your own with like a video recorder and get something, get something constructive out of it.
Well, people are gonna do it to release release, but also people are doing it to try to find, try to find something at use, and you call it a hack. And it is it is a hack. And the crazy part is if hack was enough to change people, it'd be great but it's just like being inside of a mountain biking experience. Like you can do it and then you can return back and be the same human being. How have you been able to transfer? It depends. I mean, because all these experiences you've had, you've been able to transfer them giving yourself transfer value with them. Like what do you find inside of it that allows you to transfer the value of of, you know, the mountain biking, the skiing, of even having the simple experiences and surfing. That's why I'm not even worried about like what you're experiencing with clarity that could be because you, you already have a skill to transfer it. But like what what is that how what in your brain is allowing you to transfer? I asked this question because there's going to be critical for what you're doing with Fernando, what you do with the teams getting these getting the entire team to transfer value what your emails are every week, the story told about painting this week, like all this. This is all a transfer value experience. But is that happening real time for you or how does the process work in your brain to be able to connect? Here's this Vulcan experience I had and then here's the rest of my life and here's how I can suck that out and put it over here
Well, it's almost it what I feel that it does is it creates the pattern interrupt that separates me from the reality I'm in right which you drew that diagram of the waves and then the way in the bottom, there's a trough and you have to see the value in the trough to be able to climb back up and go up top and you have to recognize this pattern and accept it for its totality. Right? the good the bad that the totality of it is what's valuable to me. It's not just these highs, it's also these these lows because from the lows I get back up it's I if you drew like it's almost like a Fibonacci chart where it goes up and it steps down. Right. So I would tell you it's it's what the value that I see in it and how I've been able to transfer it is by cultivating my own witness to it to recognize the value and then being able to look back or realize, you know, real time what's happening, to take story, to derive to take the story, whatever it is of whatever it is I'm dealing with at that point in time, detach from it, come back from it, find the value in the story, find the lesson find the action item and put that to the team, whether they accept it or not. I don't know. But that process for me, it's almost like what went right what went wrong. What would I do different fix rinse wash, repeat and that's what starts taking you up. Right.
That's Fernanda to like a sea natural doing it like you are or like have you taught him to do this or has he learned to do this? Yeah, he can. He does,
but I don't think he understands the value of the extremity. of it because he doesn't push himself to the to the absolute limit like I've been
So has he does he do the physical thing at all? And Paul does no fuck around this stupid tablet that keeps shutting off on me. Yes, he does he does he push himself like that or no like physically. Have you guys I know he runs with you. I'm just like, does he go to that level running?
Running is not gonna push you there right because it's just gonna run you can stop right? You don't get it you get dopamine from it but you don't get detachment. Maybe you get it if you tell yourself I like okay, I have to run 20 miles because I'm doing an Ironman and if I don't run 20 miles today, I likely won't finish the race. Now you're creating like this stress in your mind where it's becoming bigger than a 20 mile run. Like going out running three to five miles is not going to do this for you because there's no there's not enough there to create this pattern interrupt right
now. Well, at least not for I mean, they create the false illusion of it with experiences like Ragnar and the team races that your team's doing
it but that's different. Like he's not doing that like you asked me is he doing this kind of stuff? Right? And the answer's no.
Does he deal with does he didn't when he's leaving? Is he leading from that same place? He does
because he understands what it means to push yourself hard. He understands what it means to push yourself hard. But I don't think he's done it to the point where it creates this extreme Pattern Interrupt where you're just maybe he maybe he can I don't know. I don't know. Um,
has he done a stream with you? Like to get
him to do the Leadville stage race with me this year? I would very much like him to do that. I just don't know how he's going to train for and how he's going to find his way out to Colorado. Not the big one. Not the one day I asked him to do the three day okay.
And what'd he say? Was he down
I just don't know how he gets out there for that period of time.
You have to be out there for like
he would have to train for he could train elsewhere, but he'd have to come out a week prior. He has no technical mountain biking skills. This would be like very difficult for him. But I think he could finish
when you invite him to do things like this, is this an invitation because you're wanting to invoke more out of him? Yeah. Yeah, and you guys had when you guys had your meeting last Monday. How did that go down after we got done?
It wasn't his plan. It was really valuable. It worked.
Good. Good. So the shift happened. And is he staying? Is he going you got what did you guys decide you're going to do?
Everybody's staying. Okay. For now.
Did he get reframed on reality that that makes sense to him? Is he own pet on board then? That's correct. Yes. Okay. Great job.
But I ultimately think we get to a book to scenario with a guy like Mark that bends into a book to scenario for me okay.
Okay, Chapter opening like owning another business with him. Yeah. Okay. So he's here for at least the duration of this year, or is he committing to being here for a year is he committed to get back along with JP like, what's, what's the scenario? He's
committed through the end of June, which is what I need and then we're gonna do a personal check in two weeks prior to see where he's at and handle it. Okay.
And Fernando was good with where it ended. Yeah. Okay. Talk to me about Emily. This conversation went down last week. That was intense. I'm confident.
I mean, I started it. I didn't get it. So you and I had a chance to speak about personal matters in two weeks. So I handled it when I told you I was going to handle it.
Like two weeks ago. Yeah, like my weekend after okay. Yeah.
And I mean, I did exactly what we said. It looks she's a lovely woman. And you know, her personality and my personality are a match but you know, she was carrying around she has yet to heal. And I you know, I I'm maybe a little further along than her but it was creating baggage for me. Plus, you and I talked about it like there just was something missing there. We're just a little bit off and I know enough to know that like, I need something else. Right. So it was it was not that easy, because this was not like a throat like I left dated this woman Carly, who you might recall. The realtor. Yeah. Like that was easy because there wasn't like any type of real connection there. Although I did care about her and she was a good person. Like, it wasn't like with Emily but I think with Emily it was different because I'd gone through a healing process and you know, I got myself to different place and I felt like I was kind of pulling her along with me. She actually finalized her divorce on Friday, which was amazing for her and I'm not sure she would have done it had I stayed with her right. I don't know.
Wow, so her divorce is done. So she's done. She moved on. You saw her she's gone. Okay. You see her often in the community or no?
Well, she's moving out of the community. Okay, so that the show your
connection and distance with her is going to continue to expand.
Yeah, but I did see her at the school event. There was a school event this past Saturday. My ex wife. Yeah, my ex wife was there. A different table and Emily was there sitting at my table. And the two people that introduced me to Stephanie were sitting at my table next to me.
So you were playing out real time James Bond movie.
You know what everybody was really cool about it because I was honest with everybody. I mean, I didn't go all the way down with Emily like, Oh, hey, I'm seeing somebody out. I don't want to like destroy this woman. Plus, I you know, I just didn't think it was appropriate because, you know, Stephanie and I were just kind of like getting into it. And And honestly, like my friends had introduced Stephanie. And I, Stephanie was in an identical situation, dating somebody that she was just allowing to hang around just because, like, you know, she's a single successful, attractive young woman and, you know, she knew she should probably get out of the relationship, but it's like anything else. It's like sometimes you let people hang around like basically doing the same exact thing that I was doing. And as soon as, you know, the two of us spent a little bit of time together. She was like, done like cut the cord hard. You know, it's our What's it what's the status was definitely then you know, um, you know, all in all in coach. A lot that there's been
this show is like a visual dating or we like dating or we like we have we're not having that conversation. Yeah, I
spent I spent the whole weekend with her and I stayed at her house the whole weekend.
Alright, so we're in it to win it then. You guys played uno all weekend? Speed or no speed. You know? what was what? I said? You played uno all weekend?
Yeah, well, yeah. Well, you know what happened was I left the bash Saturday night at 930 The school I had a car pick her up. Then the car came and picked me up and then we went out in Palm Beach. We went to the band. We went to Bukom. Then we went to cucina, we just you know, she's a she's a hot little Cuban girl, you know. I love that. No, she does. I mean, we went for a walk. Friday night in Palm Beach. We walked up the the intercoastal trail you see all you just walking on the water. It's just absolutely stunning. And then you got all the billionaires houses there, right? It's just she loves that walk. So we went there and did the walk. And she was telling me about like herself and her situation and there's just so much similarity. You know, I didn't want to get too deep into divorce. But, you know, she talks about things a little differently than I do, but it's similar in that. She said to me, she goes, You know, I knew I had to get divorced because my husband had taken my sparkle. Oh, wow. So there's that. And then she does this thing where she videos herself and does like her own Live Journal entries by videoing herself about how she feels at certain points in time what she's experiencing and what she's what she's doing to grow from that point. She must have like 100 videos of herself since she's gotten divorced, like doing this exact thing.
They should do on with you.
She what? Did she do a video Whitney and yeah, are we doing with that is not happening yet is not happening yet. So then I'm walking around her house and she's got this like board with all these. She goes to this this website called quote something. And I guess you could make your own quotes. You can print their quotes or you can search for quote anyway. So she prints these things on on these little cards. And she sticks them to this board that she puts posted on the cards. And you know, I walked by the board and I was looking at it. I'm just got this one card. I can't remember what it says I was gonna take a picture of it but I didn't want to make her feel like super uncomfortable or anything but she's got a little post it on it. And it was basically like my version of savage queen was her version of savage King on our board. It was like it was basically some it said be patient and wait. He will come eventually. Wow next to this amazing quote. I was just like good god I'm like this is like like a female version of me here love it.
How's it made you feel to be in this in this space with her though she's very It sounds to me everything about her so far is a very different experience. You've been beautiful women and that's not a problem but this is a this is a different is a different level of woman that you're with right now.
Yeah, I mean she she was like switching in and out of work mode all the time. Like she is. She's already sold, I don't know $50 million in real estate this year. She's in the process of flipping like six home she owns like seven rental property. Like she's always on the phone and she shows up at my house on the phone like gets out of the car doing a deal. She's like, Alright, I gotta go. She hangs up immediately. She's like, Alright, I'm here. I'm yours now. Like that's who she is. She leaves back to work. Right, right. I love it. Yeah, I mean, she's just on all the time.
What is it about seeing her as a person this would be the first real intense producer that you dated?
Correct? Oh, yeah, she's got serious goals.
But I mean, so what's that like being in a situation with a woman who has her own life on her own agenda outside of you? On like, maybe what you experienced with Emily or would you experience with you know, Elena, what you've experienced? Lenny, what you've experienced over time with every woman you've been with has been more of a hey, I want to be capped. Take me Joe. Versus Hey, you're amazing. And I got this other world that I'm doing myself to.
It's different. Like she has to pay her ex husband support
a lot. Wow.
You know, so, um, it's totally different. It's completely foreign. It's uncomfortable. It's uncomfortable, but it's, it's uncomfortable from the aspect of I'm not used to it. Right. I'm used to what I'm used to.
Mostly these couples don't work out. My experience and worry with guys, they don't work out most of them. Most celebrities don't work out. Most athletes don't work out. You see an athlete get married to a celebrity. You know, musician doesn't typically work out two people or two agendas. My wife and I bond was not worked out forever. I mean, my wife made 4,000,004 point 2 million last year net profit to herself. She didn't give fuck what I say about anything she wants to get something for her couch she gets up for her couch she wants to go get a new year as she gets in New Years. She doesn't stop asking me for permission or anything a long time ago she also makes people so I'm like fuck am I gonna do could be with that you make the people plus you make your own money I got this is a very different dynamic or relationship. Same relationship you're getting to establish was a relationship is driven completely by want. Yeah, and desire. Yeah. And there's no good
she's got two beautiful kids. She would she's open to more kids. She's a good mom. Like good mom. Great Communicator. She's like big on communication. I think that's ultimately the key is she's already complimented me on it because I'm a good listener, and then I communicate you know, feelings without emotion. Because she'll tell me straight up she's like, you know, you did this thing and I didn't like it like this is like two weeks and she's like, don't do that. That bothers me and I'm like, Alright, I get why bothers you because show communicating exactly what I did. Why bother her and then I could see it I'll be like, oh, yeah, you know, I just worse like Emily would be okay. With that because she doesn't give a shit because she doesn't have a life and you do and like, I could see why that would cross wires with you, you know, she'll, she'll, like she'll, I'm sure you get this with Danny. Like she'll body check me real quick. You know, like Ben Hey, don't do that, you know?
And at the same time the crazy part is empower women empower women want to want to be submitted. So it's like this this interesting dynamic because every man in their world doesn't they every man in the world wants them any man they walk by wants to fuck them. They get fucked me eyes most of the day. So most of their vibe is fuck off. Yeah, yeah. And so I go up with these Oracle guarded shields and their business players and they know that 99% of the men they walk around day to day they can fucking out produce all of them. And they make people it's like the double whammy. It's like make the people plus and make the money. So this piece of me is I've watched guys who have figured this piece out and I'm around I'm around many who have who have figured this piece out. It's it's the most exciting journey ever because there is absolutely no neediness. anywhere inside the equation. Like no, we're inside this Gabs or anyone that needs anything. There's no needs. It's all desires because everybody's figured out how to fulfill themselves. I'm good. We can go Colorado. If you want to come to Colorado. I'd love to have you been in Colorado if you don't want to be in Colorado. I'm still gonna be in Colorado, having orgasms on the mountain by myself. But if you'd like killing Colorado and we'd like to have fewer orgasms together I'd love to do that with you. But if you don't, no worries, I wish you the best have fun of Miami wherever the fuck out you're going. Yeah,
she's taking her kids and her whole family to university she like rent it out like she like paid for everybody and she's I'm doing this thing. I'm like, Oh, all right. Sounds wonderful.
Have you guys she met your kids.
Yeah, we're working through that. Because this is the first person that I've met that I'm like, Okay, this girl is gonna meet the kids like we're gonna give this a go
Wow. Wow. How she built my back towards her children. Same way he was. Well, her
kids are older. They're 11 and 13. Okay, so her son and Bodie are basically the same age but you know, now you're going 610 1113 Charlie will be seven and Bodhi will be 13 before her kids move up. You know,
where you got the gamut and got middle school, middle school, downtown Elementary. That's a phone pocket.
You got everybody.
You have all the perfect levels of insanity all in one little box. Okay, so talk to me about the board and what's going on and where you're at mentally and emotionally with letting go and staying committed to what you want inside of the inevitability of frustration. Friction.
I vacillate between, stay in this, stay in the fire and fight through it too. You know what, like, I can do more. Outside of this. It's probably time for me to figure out the transition. And I have an opportunity to do it now. I had this idea this vision last night because we have a consultant now who I know and trust and Mark say Tom and the business running a consultancy and I feel like as part of as part of this restructuring that the company is going through I think my position and Fernando's position should be condensed pronouns should become the CEO I should go to the board and we should elevate an existing person in the company chief operating officer potentially like Cliff Libby and this gives me a transition out of the business. And then I can go do the stuff that I want to do in the business doesn't get harmed if it's done properly. Because Joe still involved Fernando still involved. Your founders are still here, Joe's on the board. You know, Fernando is now the CEO as long as I'm on the board, I guess I'd probably have to be the chairperson of the board. I think that works. The timing of that is to be determined but you know, I could figure it out.
I know this has been a thought back and forth for you even before any of the last month or two months have gone down what is it that you're wanting to experience um there's something your mind is wanting to experience in the in the sit on the board exit conversation that we've been having for about six months. I mean, even it's been longer than that, but it's been a place to build to this place and then there's
I need to release of this like daily operational grind and get myself into a more strategic entrepreneurial entrepreneurial role again, because that's from the best, at least for me, and I've been doing this for a decade now. Like I think it's time for me to level up. I feel very much like it's time for me to level up how I do that. I need to be mindful of how I do that because I don't want to harm the business because it directly harms me too. Right. Now, I did just get a pretty significant pay raise to be the CEO so and I am in the middle of a divorce. So it would not be prudent to make a big move at this exact point in time but there's a way to do this. Whether it's shorter term with some severance or longer term with me just staying in the role, I don't know. But I'm going to work through that here. By the end. My goal is to have clarity on that by the end of June. But I will I will, I will find that path one way or the other and figure it out. So there'll be a very, very clear road to exit to exit the business.
When you release the daily strategic grind what when you're in that pocket, when was the last time that you felt that
when I wasn't in the strategic grind? Yeah
I mean, there's definitely a weight with it. It's and it's not light and it doesn't fucking go away. It's like even when he only released it in your in the mountain bike experience.
I can't even I can't even I mean I get little glimpses of it. From time to time because of personal investing stuff I do in meetings that I go to and stuff that I envisioned, but I'm like, I can't even I can't go there. You know.
Have you been when was last time you were there? Was it the beginning stages of DMS? Was it before it was a bit after 17 Before the run to take on capital? Was it was it on the app for the pocket of running public or did the entire tears media intensity just accelerated if he went public?
I can't remember Coach I've had so much cast around me for so long between like the shit with my ex wife and then the business like I can't remember the last time that I was able to actually come down I just can't remember.
So coming to second segment segments I've been doing this for a decade and it's time to level up is leveling up. The creation of this
Yes It very much is I just need to create more space.
And one space is available even if it's available in pockets what describe what the space looks like to you like what what is the state that your mind is in when you are feeling in space
flow what else? Creativity but that's part of flow. I think flow encompasses it but if you want emotions, you know I can give them to you be like I'm generally feeling joy, excitement clarity like I can see things much clearer. There's a degree of like once I get clarity around something I feel the sense of courage and commitment to it and excitement to see it through
then there's kind of I mean, then then obviously there's just a gratitude just that flows around all of this right because he just appreciated happening real time. You're just like this is amazing. I love this who is who was a better life than me. Yeah. You know,
when you're in the grind and in the flow, did the can the behaviors be can the actions be the same? But your experience of it radically different or do they they look as a behavior intensely different than each other?
Say that again, so I can listen to it again.
So if I were to compare the behaviors of Joe as a man and strategic grind, versus a man in space and flow is that is the actual actions that you're taking different in those environments. And if they are, what does that look like? And if not, is it just the experience of how you feel in the behavior Well,
yes, the actions are gonna be different, right? Because if you look at like the grind, the grind could be eight 910 Zoom calls in a day, right? Like high stress shit where I'm in charge of something I have to lead that call to an outcome if I am not entirely focused on the strategy of the call and the outcome, like things go off the rails. We don't get to where we want to go. Right and you understand that because you do a lot of this. Yeah. Um, and a lot of times I'm trying to do it with people that are not completely aligned with the outcome, so becomes this. It's just this massive pole. You know, and you've been watching this. It's like I'm pulling this group of people up this hill together, and it just doesn't seem to ever end and there's always somebody that wants to go or some people that want to go but not everybody's thing. You're still dragging. You know, so the weight of that does get on top of me. I'm not, you know, when you're in like more, let's say entrepreneurial roles where you're dealing with people that are interested in you know, the same exact things when you're building businesses and you have people around you that are excited and they want to go like, it's easy, like you're moving like there's, there's it's lubed, right, instead of it being a lot of friction. It's lubed you're like, you're going you know and you see things expanding like right now it's it's very much a struggle, and that's fine, and I understand it, but I'm saying I've been doing it 10 years. I'm happy to keep doing it, but I've also got this board that makes it fucking twice as hard as it needs to be and it's exhausting. You know, and I very much feel committed to fixing the problem, but you know, it's maybe I'm part of the problem. I don't know like, that's what I need to figure out here.
Well, here's, here's the challenge you're gonna have just from an outside looking in is the fact that Joe
is superhuman. So the entire organization doesn't recognize how good they're not because of the cloak in the wake. of superhuman job.
So even bored, even even Robbie, everyone, no one no one actually comprehends the full gravity and value of what you bring to the table. And only time will actually appreciate it truly and value it is when it's not there. Now, unfortunately, this is human behavior. So they're like okay, well, how do you how do you handle something like this? How do I get Joe to book to how do we get Joe out of here? Well, we know this that Fernando cannot rise until Joe gets out of the way because Fernando will always submit under the wake of job. Zack here are inaccurate
he's got to go into the sea, for sure.
And if you're in the sea, and you've talked about it when you talk about it with Fernando like what what does what how does he respond to the ability to go to the sea and what is your real belief at this point? About his capacity to take it?
I think he could do it. I believe that he can do it. And we've already discussed it and I believe he wants to do it. It's just we got to take a next step on that too. Hey, this is happening and he'll be like okay, I got it
cuz I did I'm presented to the Board at all.
No. I mean, they can't process it. They I mean, like their ability to process anything is really not great. It's just too many too many conflicting interests that are pretty much transparent to everybody but they still create conflicts and they're not being disintermediated and it is what it is.
And you presented this today, how would they respond to in your in your assessment
I think they be really worried. I very much feel like it's necessary to make it their idea because that advantages me just like anything else becomes their idea. It's it advantages me for a couple of reasons. A they're more vested in it be financially becomes more beneficial to me see it it greases the path and it takes the friction out of it. So I have to find a way to make it their idea which I believe I already know how to do that which is through this restructuring that we're going through which I kicked off I think that it could come to pass quite quickly here. I mean, we might be able to get there at the midpoint of this year. You know, I stay through the end of the year. I pick up your severance Fernando Musa CEO, you know I stay on in some interim capacity. And I take over the chairpersons slot next year in the summer, and I come off completely. I don't know. I'm thinking something like that.
Sorry committed to this with is this a is this a Have you made this decision yet? For yourself? Not necessarily timing, but if you have like have you made the decision mentally this is happening.
I'm not gonna keep doing this for the rest of my life. So whether it's in such an X it's either happening it this is happening between now and in two years from now two years is the max and the min will be in let's say three months time the end. The window is June of this year, the end of June would be the soonest and the latest would be like sometime a year from that right. So let's call it there's like a not even a two year window here
and there's things that could accelerate this you know I'm about to Louie Fernando and I are about to launch, you know, Book Two, which is our technology incubator and we already have the first business that's coming in under that and that's gonna blow the fuck up like immediately, right? So as soon as the stuff starts happening, you know it accelerates the things on the other side because it probably requires my attention more so and then I need to get over there and just run it
so the ships happening.
It is for now I really like there's a process here where massive change will occur. And inside of a year when I look back, I won't even recognize where I am versus where I was. I'll be like fuck, I was so in it. I'm so out of it.
Fernando book too. Is he is he heavily involved in book two or is he I mean him stepping into CEO role that's gonna put him into a massive time commitment with DMS. Yeah, well that's okay. Yep. And Louise back in the picture rockin it.
Yeah, Louise back in the picture, rocking it doing what he does just get up to the plate and swinging the bat for homeruns and then just, you know to sweat, bro.
That's what he's fucking great at giving the fucking rock sun.
Yeah, here's the bad bro. Go strike out, pull over the wall. Or just fucking strike out. Nobody cares.
Okay, so don't care
that you just swing the bat. All we need you to do is swing the bat the outcome. Its assured you're either striking out or balls over the wall will take either. You got to strike out a few times to put them over the wall.
What would that Batmobile by June of 2022. Like what would have to happen in the next three months for this to actually be a reality for you. Like for the transition to happen this summer? I
have to find a way to connect the dots between the engagement with Mark say tops group the cetop Consulting Group and the board to where the board empathetically comes to me and says something to the effect of Do you think we should combine your and Fernando's roles? So where it's their idea as part of a restructuring to combine the CEO and the CEO roles and level somebody up in the organization to help strip some costs out of it and make the business run better? And go from there and put and put me on the board? The board needs to come to me I need to figure out how to get them to come to me in an expedited fashion and propose this.
Who would be the key person on the board to propose an idea like this? Who would be in charge of it? It's a Mary is somebody else?
It could potentially be Robbie because between Robbie, Jim Fernando and myself we effectively control the board. So you know I might have to work this out with Robbie. And then that might be the way to do it
how often you connected with Robin these days
we just had a pretty big collision but it was healthy. He's on vacation now. So when he comes back it'll have settled and that will be a good time for me to connect with him because he's, I would tell you he's codependent himself on like conflict he loves it. So when I don't react to his reactivity when he's like, Hey, if you want to talk about this thing, let me know. And I'm like, No, I'm good man. He's like, Oh, I'm so I'm gonna let him sit for a week because I don't need to, you know, feed his you know, feed his game and then when he comes back I can just you know, defuse the situation by just not even. There's no problem like he thinks there's a problem and I can defuse it by not even giving it energy and then run an end around and go somewhere else and now take us to a new spot where he didn't anticipate us going and then from there, I can look at what the possibilities are.
To rob is a gateway.
I believe he is Yeah. And what
would Robbie what didn't rob me once. Besides collision and purpose? No,
he wants Robbie wants clear vest out of their position in the stock. So he he would have extreme concern around me exiting the business. So his concern would be he wants a win win. So if the Win Win is Joe goes to the board. We stripped some costs out of the business. We have a restructuring Joe gets a year and a half of severance which goes below the line business gets more efficient business streamlines makes it so that Clarus has a better opportunity to get their money out like Yeah, he'll support that
but I need to I'm just this is real time. I'm going through this with you right like this is this is real strategic stuff. I gotta figure this out.
And see more. Is there a way to get clarifiers out and you'd go to the board at the same time?
No, not that I can see right now. Okay.
So then right now the only hope Robbie would be is that there's more efficiency which leads to a higher probability of Claire rescuing dogs in the next two years, three years. That's correct. And they you actually being there is a less efficient, less effective game with you being in the role that you're in?
Yeah, that's right.
If you played if you played the frame of you are burned out No, give a fuck anymore. How does that come across? And I'm not meaning like a blade and I don't give a fuck but it's just a Hey. I brought us to where we can bring where I can bring us.
I don't think that's the way to go. I think the way to go would be more along the lines of You know, we're going through this restructuring. Robbie as you can see for now, and I very much lead this company from the front but we effectively have two CEOs here, the better way to run this business, just to be frank and honest with you, is for one of the two CEOs to go to the board, the other CEO to be the CEO, and then for somebody in the business that's already being paid like a clo to actually become the CEO stripped some costs out of the business, streamline the business, and let the business continue to run, you know, with the necessary shift in the organization that sets up a succession plan that allows us to actually, you know, run an efficient business and grow from here. And he'll know exactly what that means. He'll know that means I go to the board
has he brought up proficiency?
Why I bring it up. I'm the one that's driving it. But he wants he wants to see expenses you know continue to remain under control
see work matter with you in person.
Generally everybody works better in person. I do a port but yeah, I'd say Robin I Robin. I haven't spent a lot of time together lately. So being in front of a Robbie, good thing.
Where's Robin Live at? Toronto? Canadian. Right. How long is he down in Florida?
He's down quite a bit. He's dumb enough.
When do you guys have an actual scheduled meeting? In person ever? Like is that on the books or is it just open right now?
COVID obviously fucked all that up. But we're getting to a place now where we're planning on having our next board meeting in person which will be in May. So I'll have that. I mean, basically two months from now we've got a board meeting where we're in front of each other. Okay.
How long is the board money?
Two months from tomorrow it's May 9, but he'll come down in advance and it would give me time with him one on one.
So then between now we've got March let's say March 8, yeah. To may 9, or in this case, probably may 7
or eighth Yeah. Oh, he may 7 Yep.
This induction and reframe of Robbie. That's it. That's correct. And if we get him on board to see this slowly and subtly over the next two months. Then you walk into the board meeting with a different narrative with Fernando.
Yep. For the board meeting after that. I feel like
when's the board meeting the next scheduled board meeting after May?
Only August okay. So excuse me what I was basically saying is if I think May is a stepping stone to get us to a firm decision whether we get the decision in May we I got it we got to figure that out. Yeah.
Okay. Well, this gives us a focus. And you and I are gonna be we're gonna be together in person. And what two weeks? Three weeks? Three weeks? Yeah. Three weeks from now. What's the Yep, one wants you there. Yep, three weeks. So we got we got two weeks to start down the process and then finalize the frame. The end of March. Yeah. Yes. It's gonna be big dude. You're gonna you're going to see some shit at the end of this month. It's just going to accelerate your intensity it's gonna be exciting.
Great. Love it.
Our brother will be great call today. We'll go back and forth on this I know that we I tend to we hit you in boxer but boxing tend to be the game you want to just roll in text.
Yeah, text is good. All right,
let's take you up in Texan.
I got all my stuff in though this week. I know the hot stack really helps.
And it helps big time. Big time. So more you can get that on that it helps give you a frame and a perspective to roll with it also helps our conversation be more focused.
I'll definitely be getting into the day before from now on. I don't think it's too I don't think it's more productive to wait because things change so real time that the day before is when I'm there.
It's perfect day before works. Alright, perfect. Our brother man appreciate you have a great day.
