How to Create a Compelling Donor Journey to Grow Engagement - Cameron Bartlett

7:23PM May 25, 2021

Speakers:

Becky Endicott

Jonathan McCoy

Cameron Bartlett

Keywords:

people

donor

nonprofit

cameron

creating

steps

journey

watched

called

campaign

build

retargeted

donation

engagement

video

world

tests

organization

virtuous

story

Hey, I'm john.

And I'm Becky.

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Howdy.

Good day when we have a new friend on the podcast who is incredibly awesome.

He's basically a digital nomad. He's like living everywhere these days. The digital nomad Well, guys, we're in for such a treat of the conversation. We're talking with Cameron Bartlett today. He is just an innovator in the digital marketing space specifically for nonprofits. He has worked with really some of the most impressive names around Sony Music on the for profit side, but International Justice, mission, compassion international cure, his work has been featured in Mashable in the new web, he's won Webby Awards, he's has an apple top 100 apps. So friends, he knows what he's talking about his his stuff, but let me tell you in just a little bit of time we've gotten to spend with Cameron, he is a lover of humanity, and he is just a good person. So I think you're just gonna be really connected to him. We're today going to talk about the donor journey. And he is just such an expert in helping us map that out understand, like, why and kind of walk us through how we can do that digitally. And just such a relatable topic for all of us in the industry. So we're just so excited to have Cameron here. He loves building community around a cup of coffee and new exciting ideas. You can tell us our people, right?

Yeah, that's definitely our people. So we'd have hot coffee, john would have iced coffee. Always have either one

I saw here. Cameron, welcome to the podcast. Here.

Thank you so much. It's really it's such a pleasure to be with you guys. JOHN, I know, we get to connect recently and just talk about all kinds of stuff, work and family. And I just I love where both you and Becky come from. As far as the work you're doing and who you're working with. And just read those. It's it's really cool to be chatting with you guys today.

That's nice. feeling's mutual. Would you kind of just kind of walk us through your story? What drew you into this space? And kind of what led you to what you're working on today?

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I remember when I was a kid, I just, you know, the clarity I had about like, what do I want to do with my life was I want to help people, you know, it was just like, that's, that's what I want to do. And, you know, I think I think today, you'd say, oh, Cameron, you're an enneagram, too. That's why you know, that's right. And the two and the three wing, right, and so that's, that's where I like dig in to the data and just try to, like, figure out the best way to do stuff. But yeah, I was just like, I want to, I want to find the best way to help people. So I was like, Oh, you know, get a psychology degree, I want to like, you know, be a counselor and help people. And then it was like, I want to do you know, something in, you know, group in the church, like, like, do something in ministry, or whatever that looks like. And I was like, I think that means that I'm going to be like, you know, a pastor of a church or something that like that felt small like I was, I want to feel like I want to invest in something that feels like I'm making a big change in the world. And I think like, so often, that means like, those individual stories you have, like, hate the work that we're doing at this nonprofit, like, we get to help this one person, here's what their story was. And then it also means like, Hey, I got to help this nonprofit or these other or teach people so that they can go do stuff in spread, and you just see, you see this impact. And so it's just really cool to kind of make that, like be able to see that kind of impact as I've got to teach people and share these things I've learned over the years. And I think a lot of that comes to from so I started out my career in like the music industry and in marketing agencies, and like marketing agencies that's like, that's like that fast, basically, like 15 clients. And nobody really cares about what these companies do. But send us somehow you can make it interesting on social media. And you have to make them lots of money. And you're just like, this is not fulfilling, but it's really hard to do. So if you can, like learn that skill. Figure that out, I realized that there's a lot to be learned from there that you can bring into the nonprofit space. So when like, I got a call about this opportunity without JM like I was like, Yeah, absolutely. This is like what I've wanted to do since I was a kid. Like work with it. I just didn't know like that was like even in my path. So it just kind of like came up. And I was like, wait, I could use the same skills from a marketing agency and like, give those same skills give the same tools give us some strategies to nonprofits who have these other secret weapons, right? They have these incredible supporters who will are just like diehard will will want to like do whatever it takes if you can build the right relationships with them. And nonprofits have these incredible stories to tell. So you add that to, you know this, this digital buyer journey customer journey that an agency would use, and instead you use it to build stronger relationships with donors through a digital donor journey. So But it's kind of where I've been up to this point and how it kind of formed together.

I think one of my most favorite things in the world is when we get to meet people who are so brilliant at their craft, and they are in the for profit space. And they just feel like it's not fulfilling. There's an emptiness there. And they take those gifts, and they do a hard about face. And they move into the nonprofit space. I'm like having all of these guests go through my mind like Nick Lynch, Dana Snyder, Vic Harrison Cameron. It's like people who worked at these massive marketing agencies, who learned so much got the base of understanding and then are channeling it into the nonprofit. And it's like God bless the two wing threes of enneagram. And please stay tuned, because we're going to have an entire enneagram episode, this season. And we want everybody to pour into finding out what your enneagram is. Because I think there's a lot to be learned in there about understanding your type understanding people, you work with understanding your donors. But I really want to dive into this journey. Because I think that the the bent that you have on it is very interesting. I think traditional fundraisers, when they think about a donor journey, they're thinking about it in the sort of cyclical way that we've been taught where it's like, we get into the discovery, then we start to cultivate, we solicit we steward and then we just get them in the cycle. But you have like this intentionality about how are we creating these points? How are we creating, like something that would drive us to the next point, and to the next point, and how are you intentionally strategizing? What this journey is going to be like, because it's not transactional, we're not just trying to get the one gift. We're trying to grow them to be lifelong advocates for our missions. And I love the way that you have kind of put some formula around it. So could you dive into how to create a compelling donor journey that will not only grow the cause, but grow our connections to our donors into the people who are most passionate about our mission?

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think I think, first point to mention is that those really involved engaged touchpoints, where you're getting in the phone and building relationships, and you're taking people out to dinner, or you're even even through like, for some, for some people, like sending them things in the mail. And like, all that stuff, those those things are not lost are actually a really key part of this. But, but also, you know, as far as like, real relationship building, like my favorite is to just like, get a cup of coffee with people, right, like, go and just like meet meet new people that way, like, you know, get on a phone call, and just like learn about each other's lives, like that deep relationship is not replaced with a social media post. You know, and it's not, it's not replaced with an ad campaign or with it with an email. In fact, wherever you can, you want to be able to maintain as much of that, like, the personal ness, that personality, all those things in this process. And then it's just figuring out what of those steps you you can automate and scale. And what of those things you still want to you still want to add in but and the right at the right times. So, you know, as a digital marketer, a lot of what I've done has been focused on a lot of those smaller steps that we don't pay attention to, you know, you look at stages. And, you know, there are there are definitely milestones throughout and mile markers. As you go through a donor journey, you know, you get somebody to actually make a donation for the first time and become a recurring donor and things like that. But there are all these little tiny steps in between. And so what you want to figure out is, how do those little steps actually equate to someone making the first donation. So those things could be than watching a video, you know, on social media, right? Actually, videos are pretty great for just social, just for your nonprofit in general and for building audiences because you can target in all kinds of cool ways. So you can retarget people who watch a certain video who watch a certain amount of a certain video who watch certain types of videos on on your channels. And it's like this really small first step, they haven't even gone to your website yet, they haven't given you their email address, they haven't made a donation, but you still have a way to reengage with them to retarget them through ads based on just watching a video. So that's a really cool, like, micro step that you can start building off of, and they're just a trail of those along the way, getting people to actually sign up for an email less than giving them a good reason to, you know, and then once you have their email, not just being at PayPal, here's our newsletter every once in a while, but creating a like a welcome series and and like steps from there that say, hey, we've realized that when we send an email like this, people are more likely to you know, engage in the next stage or when we can run an ad like this people will actually get make that first donation or when we can sequence these steps in a way you know, they might actually forego giving it all But they're gonna skip right to that advocate stage, they're gonna go set their own peer to peer fundraiser. I mean, think of it, like, how many times you've done this, I've done this for sure, there are organizations that I never donated to, but I was like, on my college campus, like telling people about and I set up a peer to peer fundraiser and, you know, I got a bunch of other people involved. And you really just don't, you don't want to ignore the people who skip certain steps, you know, but you want to sequence them in a right way for, for people to get to, to those mile markers. And not necessarily like just focus on like, getting people from A to Z, but rather, throughout be moving to see if they're at a move in the app, you know what I mean? Like, if they've watched the video retarget them with an ad that shows them a landing page for a work work related to the video they just watched. If they sign up for your email list, for something specific to do with some kind of case work, like show them about some kind of advocacy step that they can take from that email, like it's all about just moving them one step further.

That's just such a powerful point. Because it just moves management and how we, you know, try to think about how we're moving donors through the cultivation cycle. It's all about that next step that's right for them. And so I love that you're teaching this like in mass, because obviously we're trying to build and scale movement. So really, starting with this clarity of Here are the steps is such a critical first place to start, I would just think and then applying that and figuring out what the triggers are in each place. just such a powerful way to go about it.

And I also just think I think back to that conversation we had with Mallory Erickson, where we were talking about this, I almost call it any theory or concept of fundraising that's been out there forever, that it takes 18 months to get somebody to their first gift people. That is a made up number. I don't know who collected the data for that how many decades ago, but I'm telling you that if you employ this method that Cameron's talking about that window can be I can think shortened by 80% or something because it's about engagement. And it's like if you create all of these engaging points, somebody feels seen, they feel really educated by your mission, it is going to fast track that first donation, and then you can just work from there. And then it's creating another mile marker from that first gift. So loving this conversation.

Yeah, I think a couple of things that really add on to this, that if you're not doing them you're missing out, are, are one, like I mentioned, some people skip steps. Think of it even like if you set up a Facebook fundraiser and your mom and five other people like donate to it. Like they just skipped all of the awareness steps, they've never, they've never engaged with your organization before. They never even like did your lead opt in, they never went through any of those processes. But now they've given money the thing that you were like hoping people will do. But like they could just totally trail off and never do anything again. But instead you haven't been it's really pivotal moment. Like, that's a great time to invest in like make make it clear that like what they can do next. The other thing is, and this is actually something that changed my mind about it. So like, when I look at working in the for profit space, it was all just about like, only trying to move people like inches at a time. But there are actually a couple places when this journey that you can like engineer skipping some steps. So I would say from one time donation to recurring, right and so like you guys are probably familiar with this, but like, a lot, a lot of nonprofits are switching a lot of their first time ask from just like, hey, just give us five bucks, just give us 10 bucks just give us 100 bucks to like, actually give us less but every month like and it's a huge like, so I use a lot of software's will do this like donor secure, I think fundraise does fundraise up is one that I really love that I think just like buddy, whatever tool you're using the psychology behind if someone's gonna give $100 gift, and you say, hey, what if you gave $25 but every month, you're like, well, we're we're asking for a lot less right now. Like, why would we try to downgrade the budget back like it, it's, it's much better to get somebody in at a reasonable amount that they say I could keep doing that on a recurring basis. And then four months, you've recoup that and a year you've tripled that and like, you know, so like you've invested so much just to get the one donation, but there is a point here where you can ask people right off the bat to actually become a recurring donor. And I just think that that's that's something that originally I was like, Well, you know, don't wait until like you've been investing in them for a while. But I think if you're going to make your first financial ask to them, either make it a pitch for recurring or have software that when you make a one time pitch, it actually upsells them to that recurring. And then I think it was that the other the other idea of the those who those who will be your advocates and ambassadors and spread your cause for you but won't necessarily give like they're still incredibly valuable. And in fact, once you've given them a role and a part of the community and actions that are not just giving, they'll actually come back and be much more likely to give in the future. So making sure that you have paths that are not just giving, that are still strong, impactful. and invite people into that community. It really, really makes a big difference along those steps, and are kind of some like skipping steps, a little bit counter to the journey, but are really important, just like add ons to it that really help.

I'm so glad you mentioned that. Because let's just think of any relationship where all you ever do is ask like, How annoying and ridiculous. It's like, how often do we really step back and say, as an organization, where are we building in value? and changing up what we're asking for? It's not always about money. It's about engagement in other ways. And obviously, there's lots of ways to plug in So okay, camera and picture and, you know, our friends that are listening nonprofits trying to apply this in their world, you know, what kind of tech is necessary to get started? What kind of how do you begin planning a journey? Just kind of walk us through a couple of steps?

Yeah, you know, the first is just like, the simplest start is to ask the question like, Where, where are people coming from? Like, where are your your donors? Your support? Is your visitors like, where are they coming from? do you have? Are you guys killing it at SEO and people are coming in for certain keyword terms that have to do with the cars that you're supporting are people coming in because you had a viral social media, like video come like, a few years back of friends at Samaritan's Purse had this like, all of a sudden one of their videos, like 10 seconds long, but like 19 million views, and I had no idea what to do with it. So like, I just like, we just like talk through it. And he gave some ideas for strategy and so forth. And they were able to like build off of that like, okay, it's not just let's let's just let this thing that just touched a bunch of people, like, kind of go nowhere, like, let's follow up with that. So it's like figuring out where are those people coming from are a lot of them coming through peer to peer campaigns. So you do like a walk every year, and you get like 1000 new people through that, like, what's that first step that they're coming in through. And then you start to study, like, go into whatever kind of analytics, yep, Google Analytics, or you have some other like great data tools that help you dig in, and start to place in order what people normally do in order to make the donation. You could do small tests, if you just like, Hey, I just thought that's something that we can't really dig into that stuff, it's really hard for us to put all that stuff together, then start doing some tests, you know, put out a Facebook ad or, you know, Google ads or YouTube ad or something, like put out a simple ad campaign, and test a few different options and see what people engage with. If it's, you know, start by just comparing two different videos, hey, this, this long video that we have, it's like five minutes long, but it's really goes into depth, and we feel like people will give, or we got this 32nd like teaser, kind of like intro to what we do. And we found that, okay, that's actually what's going to get people to the next step, whether that's an email opt in, or that's a donation or, and you just start comparing two things together. And then you compare two more things together. Okay, when they get to the landing page, does the landing page look like this? Or does it look like that? Is there you know, one main ask or are we getting is going to long form page where we have several asks throughout, and we have, like, you know, stories of donors and stories of, of, you know, our impact and things like that, you just start testing little things together. And you build kind of, you build just like these concepts and tests and what works, what we would call them are like, secret formulas, or, or something like that, where it was just like, Oh, we ran, we ran an email without, okay, when we include an image, it's actually like, it's people are less likely to click because then like, it's loads too long, or whatever, we found that this is the type of email at this time, we can send this many throughout a campaign, like we just started creating formulas for every everything we would do, and then included the donor journey that included the steps that we found, were compelling for people to get from one stage to the next. And so just coming up with those things together through small tests, and combine them into results that you can study and learn from.

Okay, I feel like, I want to make this point, because I'm having an aha moment here, as you talk that if you are creating content, and I hope everyone who is not has a nonprofit works in a nonprofit that's listening to this that has any ability to create some content, you know, in whatever form that is for your donors. We cannot stop at creating content if we are not building in time to analyze data. And I have to tell you like confessional time, I mean, I was not a someone who was good at creating a hard pause and looking at data. So what Cameron is saying here is is what we talk about all the time, which is try stuff. Yeah, it's literally try stuff. And once you've tried some stuff, look at it and look and see what the impact is where we are programmed as nonprofit professionals in hardwired to look at impact to find out what we're doing and how that resonates with donors. We should apply that same mentality with the way that we engage and so as you're thinking about creating a journey and especially a digital journey for a donor We've got to build in some time to look back and see how people responded, and then just keep tweaking and tweaking and tweaking, you're just going to get better.

And you know, I think, to kind of put this into the context of an example, I think one of the first big examples of this was a campaign that led with our jam. Where we really use this like it was maybe maybe even were, like part of the strategy was born just because I realized how we could do different things with you know, retargeting certain ads and creating certain content that had to do with with a campaign like this and really warming people up so that they were ready to give. And it was a campaign called Super Marco, where we were introducing a new new line of casework that, that we were looking to do. And so we had to, like, even educate people on what this was what we were doing. And so we started releasing a bunch of content, it was, it was a case for called cyber sex trafficking. And so we would create articles in our website about cyber sex trafficking, we would put, you know, we have a landing page just for that we would put out a social post whenever there was a rescue. In fact, our rescues became some of our most engaged posts, we were able to increase just by like, actually, what you're just saying, Becky, like testing and iterating and implementing things, we increased our engagement of those posts from like 1000 likes on a post to over five or 10,000 likes on one of those posts, and just a year, which was really, really cool to see. But through that, that process, we weren't just creating content, we were actually creating steps along a digital journey. So we then took a step further and created a series of videos. Like I mentioned, videos are so valuable, right? You can retarget and all kinds of different ways. So we started with a really simple one. What is cyber sex trafficking was the first video, and that became our most engaged posts. Yeah, we had like over 100,000 views on that video, which is more than we've ever seen to that point. And then we created a video, or girl named Cassie and her experience with it. And if people had watched the first video, we retarget them to watch the second video. And then and then we got ready to promote what was this super Marco video and it was a five minute short film, it was like a thing that's hard to promote on social media, like people are watching 32nd videos, and we're like, Hey, watch her watch your short captions or something. Yes. And it was, you know, it was really difficult content. It was like we had to block it in certain countries. And obviously, like age restrictions, all this stuff because like, I'm like this is this could either like be the biggest thing we ever do, could just totally flop. And but luckily, we built in a strategy that allowed it to really succeed. We got ready to launch the video with a facebook live where we had over 50,000 people on there watching getting ready to just say like the thing we said was go watch and share the supermarket video we had all of our influencers we had anyone at those stages, like I mentioned before, who like I'm not going to give but I'll definitely help you spread it a great, we'll use that because when we launched the video, you'll see like we ran retargeting ads, we do this stuff, but it was the majority of our views from like 80% or more, or just organic people just sharing it and getting to their other people. And when we launched the supermarket video, it got over a million views, we had just done our biggest for 100,000 views. And now we tend to text it A month later with this market video. And so we knew that people watched supermarkets video, there would be more likely to give, if they actually watch this five minute short film, they would be heartbroken like we were about about this crime, and they would help us end it, we knew we need to, like make a big impact on this. And so we retargeted anyone who went to certain pages that had cyber sex trafficking in the title, we retargeted people who watched any of the previous videos or engaged with certain posts that had to do with this, all those digital steps along that route, and then ran them through ads that watched this supermarket video. Then once they watched it, we ran other ads to those people at that next stage to say, Hey, give to help us end cyber sex trafficking. And we raised almost $5 million from this campaign was the biggest campaign we've ever done that that video actually went on to win the Webby Award all that stuff like this was a campaign that if we had maybe like a few years ago, a year beforehand just said like, well, let's just ask people for donations. And let's just launch that one video, I'm sure people would have given but because we created this compelling digital journey with steps that led all the way up to it, where we took time to build content as things that lead into one another. We were able to reach more people than ever raised more than ever through a campaign like this and make a huge impact in ending cyber sex trafficking. So yeah, it was a really good example of how you can use that in your nonprofit.

Taking a quick pause from today's episode to thank our sponsor, who happens to be one of our favorite companies virtuous. You know, we believe everyone matters. And we've witnessed the greatest philanthropic movements happen when you see an activate donors at every level. And virtuous is the platform to help you do just that. It's so much more than a nonprofit CRM M virtuous helps charities reimagine generosity through responsive fundraising. And we love it because this approach builds trust and loyalty through personalized donor engagement. Sound like virtuous may be a fit for your organization, learn more today@virtuous.org Follow the link in our show notes.

Okay, we need to like put a round of applause on that. Because that, I mean, really, that mission deserves that level of eyeball and that level of engagement and that level of support. And you were so smart, in my opinion, to make it so accessible to anyone. And the fact that you were going in the places where they were in saying, hey, if you can't give, it's okay, we there's a still you away that you can help us and everybody feels like they can pour into this mission in a way that works for them. Because we're getting more eyeballs on this. And we will link up to that video, I hope we can find I'm sure it's on YouTube somewhere. So you in the show notes. So if you want to see what a video like this can do and the way that it's applied. We'll put that in the show notes. And I'm sorry

that I just see our values that we talk about all the time on this podcast in what you're doing here. But it just is so clear to me that you played the long game. Yeah, that it'd be so easy. Like you said, and this is what every nonprofit does is like, give like, that's their post. But you were scared. I love that you even said that you were scared that he didn't know what it was gonna happen. But you leaned into that it made sense to try it and all you're doing is trying it. And in the end, not only did you raise 5 million, but we would even push to say, that's probably the smallest impact that happened is that the 5 million that came in, if literally millions of people have watched this, what's the ripple effect that's going to push them further down their donor journey. So that's maybe what it raised in this campaign. But I just I love that example. And I love that y'all took the risk to do that. And even for you to sell it up the chain to get the leadership bought into that kind of a strategy. I would love to see more and more nonprofits embracing because clearly what an amazing example,

Cameron, I'm just thinking about, like we have a heart for the tiny nonprofit. And we could have, you know, some individuals who are listening to this episode right now. And they're probably getting overwhelmed hearing about, well, this hat. Well, they had an agency to help work with them to build this strategy. What advice would you give a small shop with a very small budget about where to start with like a digital marketing and fundraising campaign if they want to employ these sorts of strategies?

Yeah, absolutely. You know, yeah, so like, you look at a campaign like like supermarket and we there were so many different departments that were on board with that, you know, we did, we hired an agency on to help that, like the towel brothers made the video with our, with our creative department. But just after I started consulting, like, left a jam, and I started saying, hey, let me bring this concept to other nonprofits. You know, I did work with bigger nonprofits like compassion, and so forth. But I also worked with a lot of like, smaller nonprofits who are just trying to figure this stuff out. And one of them right after, which is called deliver fun. And actually, very similarly in this in this space, of like taking out human trafficking markets here in the US, they partner with like, IBM, and like, use their AI technology to like find these, all this, it's really, really cool stuff. But they're even with those partners, even that they're very small nonprofit, when we started talking, and they'd never done any kind of digital marketing before. And I would just think that like the steps that we took, were one around, like Giving Tuesday and your ad campaign was a great place to kind of make some of those tests. Now they had a video that was already created a story of a girl named Samantha. And it was just like in their records and I was paid let's let's use this, I think we could let's use this as the same kind of like template of like, promoting similar to how we did with super Marco, let's get let's do a lead up to this. Where we promote, where we talk about human trafficking, something called where there are like Romeo traffickers, they like pretend to be a boyfriend kind of to those that they're, that they're trafficking and, and so forth. And so like, let's let's educate people on this. And we're like, let's just do a test. Like literally, if we could make back the money we spent on these ads, I feel like that would be good. Let's let's try to make even. And with the campaign we put together it was they were able to get like a like an eight times return on their investment from it, which was just really, really cool. By using an asset, they already had a video. So if you don't have a video, I would say like that would be a good place to start. If you're going to spend money on some kind of creative asset, get some kind of video and it doesn't have to be long. It could be could be a minute could be a couple of minutes or something. But that tells a story. It could be the story of your nonprofit. It could be the story of somebody that you've helped and but I think like one thing to learn from the the creative and the storytelling behind the supermarket and others like it is that it would be so easy to just kind of like you know, depending on the type of work you do, kind of play the middle Middle emotion, you know, you're like, Okay, well, it's obviously a bad thing, but we want to kind of be happy about it, you know, like happy about the difference we're making. And so you kind of like have a video or messaging or content that just plays kind of in the middle of the road. But what you really want to do is to do to delve deep into, like, the depth of the actual issue you're working, and then rise into the sell it like the real height of the celebration, right. And so even see that in supermarkets, video, and others, where it's like, Hey, we're going to be real about how real this actually is like this, you know, whether you're working in hunger or education, or, you know, anything like that there are, you need to paint the picture of what the real problem is through the video you choose. So once again, whether it's about your nonprofit, or a story, you're telling, make sure you really paint the picture of like why help is needed, what this problem is, because until people are bought into that problem, they won't, they won't care about the solution as much like it doesn't doesn't connect with them. And then you can talk about, hey, and this is how people's lives are changed, right? This is what you can do if you join this. And so the simplest kind of like donor journey, I think, would be having a video that has those compelling elements that really connects with people and shows the problem, the solution, the impact they can have. And you use that to start reaching people like to run an ad where you either ask people to give, ask people to sign up for an email list or just gain that awareness. And then you figure out what that next step is, whether that next step is that email, the the financial assets or something, and you just keep, like moving people through stages, wherever they are. So hey, they've watched this video, let's get into the website, they made it to the website, let's retarget them with this ask like something along those lines. And I think to people so often, neglect an email list. It's funny, I'm a social media marketer, at heart, that's where I started, I love it. That's what I love doing. But email is so powerful if you use it in the right way. And so I would say dig into how when somebody actually signs up for their email, or your email list, why do they do it, right, like, give them a really good reason to do it. And then once they get in there, don't just send them a newsletter every once in a while, like actually create a sequence even if you use like MailChimp, or something, you can upgrade to the next level to actually create a welcome series. So somebody joins and here's what the first email is two days later, here's when the next email is in two weeks later, here's what the next email is creating, crafting that in a way that makes the right kind of pitch that gives people the like, the information they need, tell stories, like stories will be such an important part of any of the content you create here. And just start start testing those sequences out. So that as as someone interacts with your website, because it's not for an email list as they go on social, there are things that are following them. And there are things that are following up with them. And there are things that are building a deeper relationship with them. So it's not just an interaction, and then silence, it's it's that follow up, that would be the simplest way to start getting into this.

And the beauty of that is that it is hashtag, like doing more with less, and you are improving your life because this can all be automated. And to think that you could, you know, save more time in your day and up your engagement significantly by leveraging some of this tech to do things that just happen automatically, when you're not even wholly involved in that is so brilliant. And the other thing I want to point out about what you just said, is, guys, Cameron just gave us like a storytelling formula right there. I mean, I identify with what you just said so much, it's very much what we used to say to like, our CEO of our former healthcare institution, when he would go up on stage and speak during a gala. It's about creating a storyline. And I always think about it, maybe just because I love theater, and I love the symphony, but it's like a conductor getting up there. And you're creating a storyline to your point that dives into the issue. And it has ebbs and flows and it's growing and swelling and then to Cameron's point, you rise into the celebration, and there is an apex that we are trying to achieve emotionally. And that is the trigger point by which we want to ask them to embrace this opportunity to join us. And so if you can create that sort of dance, where there's some rise and there's fall, and then there's a heavy heavy rise, it's like the power of that moment and the way people are feeling in that moment about I want to be a part of this. I want to be a part of eradicating this I want to be a part of amplifying this. That is where the rubber meets the road in my opinion. So great suggestion.

Yeah, and I think it is the good way to think of it is if you don't, if you don't show them the valley and the peak like they're not gonna make the climb with exactly No. And even like to extend that metaphor like you need to be able to show them not just like where the next base camp is like where that next goal is, but Like, they're gonna need to be trekking with you for a while, you know, like, that's why asking them to become a recurring donor. That's why painting, like the end of the thing you're trying to eradicate is so important, like, setting these goals that might even seem impossible, but only until you set your sights on these impossible goals. So they become possible to end, you know, and and will people join you in that in that long journey.

So smart Cameron so dang smart. I'm picturing little Cameron walking around as a kid saying, I want to help people in this world, to now you know, helping create all this impression and just awareness for nonprofits in fundraising. What's a story that stuck out to you, we love to dive into how philanthropy changes us individually is people in the field, what's the story of philanthropy that's really kind of moved you over the years,

I think, like, what, what even triggered the like, I need to, I need to help people remember, you know, so as I did go, like I mentioned, go to church when I was a kid, probably when I was like, not when I was really little, but like, I don't eight years older, so I started going and it was like, I remember went to this church, for like, where, when you're eight years old, you switch from going to like the children's church thing to like sitting in their actual service. And I had one week before my birthday that I was in, like, playing games with the kids. And then I was in like, the regular old just, like, sit there, let's do a sermon. And my brother was younger than me. So I'm like, I'm the only one in there with my parents. And I just remember, like, somebody came and just like, taught from a nonprofit and talked about like, a cause they were working on that was like, just like wrecked me as an as an eight year old kid. You know, they talked about these things that were going on in like, Northern Uganda, and with where these children were being abducted. And, you know, they were being turned into child soldiers. And the and the girls were being turned into sex slaves. And it was just like, I couldn't believe like my mind, like, wrapping around this. I was like, I can't believe like, this is this is real. Like, I always thought like, if I could go back in time to when, you know, these things would happen. Like I would have stood up and done something and I'm like, Oh, they, they are still happening. And you know, I'm sure people moved forward and gave and all of these things. But it was like this life changing moment for me to realize, like, this is even going on in the world. And it's like, I got his book, I got it. I had like his book and read it. And like, did a book report on it in school. And like, he just like shaped who I was who I wanted to help like what I wanted to do, I even like later then took a semester abroad in Uganda and Rwanda. And it was just like, you know, it's so wild that I didn't start in nonprofits, because, like, I'm glad I didn't, like I mentioned, I'm glad the experience I gained, but to hear these stories of these, these children who were walking like 30 miles a night just to avoid the Lord's Resistance Army, you know, so they didn't get abducted. kids that were my age, and even younger I was I couldn't, I couldn't believe it. And it just shaped like, what I wanted to do with my life, how I want to, like later came back to how I wanted to help people. I want to help nonprofits that were doing this kind of work. And I was just so grateful for that stories. It's actually really cool. Last year, I got this chance to kind of do this series where I talked on, like fundraising, and there's a nonprofit software called Blackbaud. And they asked me to do a series with their customers. And this this speaker is Burnham Brewer, he was from an organization called World Health. And I saw the registration list. And I saw two of the marketing people from the World Health Organization. And it was just this like, really crazy moment of like, this thing that changed my life. Now I'm speaking into like, back into them and how they can, you know, like, adapt during COVID, four digit digital fundraising. And it was just like such a powerful moment. I think I tried to connect with them. I don't think anyone returned my LinkedIn messages. But it was just like such a life changing moment. Either way, I just thought like, it was really cool to have that reminder and see that come back. And to see like, wow, that that drove where I am today. So

yeah, it's not lost on me that one, you are an empathetic and such a kind individual that that it This was able to strike you as a child, and one people if if you are not bringing your children into your, into your giving into discussions about missions, exposing them to the inequities in the world, and how they can pour into it. That is a missed opportunity because of what it can do to drive the way that they will show up in this world to serve others. And to Cameron, you poured into the International Justice Mission and created a campaign that is eradicating and serving sex trafficking, and you are literally paying this gift forward of what you saw in Uganda. And you're paying it forward around the world through your gifts like The symbiotic nature of that is just blowing my mind right now of how you were able to even pay that experience forward, to make it better to make that not a reality for someone that's facing something like that. And so it's just a beautiful story. And I love that it started to awaken your heart at such a young age. And I just am sitting here with a heart of gratitude thinking, I'm so glad glad that Cameron came over in the nonprofit, I am so glad that you're pouring these gifts in because it will always be more than a job to you. And your storytelling of that totally illuminates it in such a beautiful way.

Thanks so much, Becky. Appreciate that. Okay, Cameron, we close every conversation, wanting to get your one good thing. And we're all kind of hanging on the edge of their seats, you know how to create the tension in a story to have just just such a powerful storyteller in yourself. So what's something that everybody can implement today? It's either a good habit or a piece of advice. Your one good thing?

Yeah, I think that would be finding what I would call celebration post. So it's this really incredibly valuable piece of content to really anyone at any stage in the journey. But it's that shows your impact. And thanks your donors. So you're working with a jam and other like anti slavery organizations, that was when there'd be a rescue? You know, like, this is just like, pure joy. Obviously, there's that that valley of like describing how they were even in this and what this looked like, before. But we, you need to use this to thank your donors, that can be an email, that can be something you post on your website, that can be your social posts, but those celebration posts are incredibly valuable, in fact, like, thanking people isn't just like, oh, it should, it's good to think that we did the tests. And the data showed that when we said the word Thank you, we increased our engagement by like, 40%, it was like seriously that that it was just crazy. So like, I would say, find what that is, if you are an education, nonprofit, it's, you know, when somebody graduates, but it's also like, there are other points throughout, right, it's like, when you know, a struggling student, passes a big exam, when somebody who is going to drop out like doesn't when somebody gets a job afterwards. If you're, you know, with a child sponsorship organization, or something, it's those milestones throughout where you see success in those children thriving and things like that. There are many points that you can use, you can find those with that celebration, as well, you know, charity, water, digging that well. And you can actually see the water coming out of the ground, like, try to find that same drilling in the ground water, water coming out, thanking your donors through that process, that celebration post will help you get great, you know, grow on social media and your channels. But it will absolutely More importantly, connect with with donors help people to give help those who are giving to be like, yeah, this is why I do it.

And you have created that Apex moment when you have done that. And I think about, you know, we love water for and they have those well, stories as well. And it's like a day. I think it's ironic

that right before this, yeah,

I mean, if you've ever watched a one minute video of a well being turned on, I mean, it is like the mounting tension. and excitement is escalating. And it's not even it's not over when the well turns on. To me, the most incredible part is the reaction to the well turning on. And it's like we all are celebrating that moment, we are all embracing the joy that those people have. And that is the beauty of storytelling and doing something as simple as that can really translate to engagement, awareness and dollars raised. Awesome. Okay, camera, and people are going to want to connect with you. They're want to, they're going to want to see your storytelling and your digital donor journey and action. Where can people find you and connect with you online?

Yeah, so the best place is LinkedIn. I just love connecting with people on there and building up into community. I think we like I think that's cool. So yeah, I mean, that's just a great place, I really feel like of all the channels all over the place. Like that's where I just like getting on a call with people and getting to know them or just, you know, seeing what, what they're posting and learning from them and sharing with each other and stuff. It's just really a great community. And then you can go to my website, Cam Bartlett calm. And that's just where you can download stuff on this donor journey. I'm even completing a course on it. So I'm excited to be able to release some of that stuff as well. We can link that up

when you teach marketing at a top 30 university in the country. You know your stuff. How

did I leave that out of the bio? I'm sorry,

yes, camera teaches at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill, so you can get one of his classes there. So in a digital world, so, Cameron, thank you so much for coming on. I just feel like we have grown a lot in this conversation and just appreciate what you're pouring into the world.

Thank you so much. She's such a pleasure to talk with you guys. I just I love these types of conversations. So thanks for inviting me into it. It's been an honor. Thank you