Episode 165 - Complete

Vinny Welsby1h 15min

Speaker 100:00

You're listening to the face value podcast episode 165 a weight loss surgery, stats and stories. Let's do it

Speaker 100:23

Hello, welcome to this episode. So nice to see ya. I can't see you. So nice that you're here listening to me. We have got an episode today where we're talking about the stats was stats around weight loss now we've done a couple of episodes about the stories on weight loss surgery, sorry, weight loss surgery. And the this episode I did, like two years ago, it was episode 50 or episode 165. And so I want you to rerelease that, that audio because you can't get it on some platforms anymore because it's from so many episodes ago. So I'm going to be playing the information that I recorded in Episode 50 around weight loss surgery stats, and then I am going to be also adding on the end of this podcast, stories, new stories. I always find it so interesting that whenever I post on social media about weight loss surgery, that the stories just come flooding in. I feel like people don't have anywhere to talk about this, their experiences with weight loss surgery. And I think it's really important to share even more stories every time I get them because who they're important. And what we hear about weight loss surgery is a lot of positive stuff. Right? Or if there is a detracting story, it will be like someone went abroad for surgery and they fucked it up. You should stay in your home country for surgery because we're better. And we won't fuck it up. And yeah, so let's listen to the stats. Before we do just an update on a couple of things. I listened to that episode again, just to see, you know how much of a decade it was a couple of years ago. It's good, it's good. Don't worry, I wasn't addicted. But there's a couple of things that have changed since I recorded that episode. I use this new update on language that I've learned and the new update on language is instead of saying substance abuse so in regards to using alcohol or drugs the new way to say that which is less stigmatizing is substance use disorder so instead of substance abuse now substance use disorder so just an FYI when you hear me say substance abuse just in your brain just think Vinny saying substance use also I mentioned lindo bacon, and that was before lindo showed their ass if you want to know about what happened with lindo go and listen to just Google just just Google it or we have a whole episode talking about it, which is the most popular episode I ever did. I think people are like, oh, I want to gossip. So I think if you just search first fatty lindo bacon, you'll find that episode. Also at that time, I was calling myself Victoria, which is my dead name. So I don't know if I refer to myself as Victoria. If that happens, and you're like hula fuck is that then? That's me. And my name is Vinny. And my old name was Victoria. So yeah, so with that in mind, let's listen to it. And then I'm going to come back at the end and share the stories that people have shared on social media when I shared this information recently. Okay, so let's get into today's episode. I've been meaning to make this one for a while but I've been putting off why I've been putting it off. Because it's a big and juicy topic. It's kinda it's kind of um I don't I'm not into I'm not into shaming people and I don't want talking about weight loss surgery. I don't want people to think that if you choose to have surgery that you are a bad person. And, you know, we see a lot we see a lot of of celebrities who were fat icons and still are, who then have surgery and And a lot of people in the fat positive body positive community are sad about that. And that makes sense. Of course, it's sad to think of someone who you thought was, you know, who liked their body who was a champion for fat people, then having surgery, some people feel like it's a betrayal. I personally don't, because it's not any of my business, really, what people do with their bodies, I don't know what's going on of their brain. I don't know what's going on with their life. I do know what it's like to move through the world. As a small, medium fat, I don't know what it's like to move through the world with ever marginalized identities. So I'm white having to move through the world as a black indigenous person of color, that adds another layer on top of it, to move through the world or something like this, if you have disabilities, if you're trans, it, all sorts of things. If you're gender nonconforming, it makes life harder. And so if you can do something to make your life that you perceive or make your life easier, who knows if it will or not, and that isn't an option for you, and that is available for you. Then I can understand why people would do that. And so I don't feel betrayed, I just feel compassionate towards them. But, you know, there probably is a bit in me that it's kind of like, Oh, I wish that they hadn't. Now, in this episode, we're talking about what actually, bariatric surgery is. The different types are not advertising it to you, but whoever I'm not like, Hey, here's the different types. And here's why it's great. No, just so we were on the same page of we know what we're talking about. And, and, and what not, the outcomes and the risks of the surgery. And the stats around does it actually make your thing? And why people get the surgery? And we're going to have, I'm going to read a few accounts from people who've had the surgery and what what it's like. And if you're considering the surgery, we talk about should you have the surgery? So let's do it. So what about weight loss surgery? Now, I want you to talk about this today, because it's been on my beautiful brain. Do you remember I say Do you remember? Like we've been best friends forever? Do you? Remember when I was on that BBC documentary? Who are you calling fat? Well, you don't remember because you don't know. I was on this documentary. And I lived in a house with other people who have higher weights. And two of those people in the house had previously had surgery to amputate their stomachs in order to lose weight. Now, one of the people was now a fat positive person. And she had had the surgery years previously wasn't even talked about on the show. But she had that surgery and she had seen tons of serious consequences. Malnutrition, her bones were super weak, and they she would break bones constantly. She had put on all the weight. And I think more from what if my memory serves me. Now there was that one person and there was another person who was heavily featured in the show he had just had this surgery, and he lost lots of weight, because that tends to happen after the surgery temporarily. And he was on the show to espouse the benefits of this surgery and everyone should get it but he was already in the process of putting weight back on because he hadn't had his surgery maybe a year prior. But he was not fat positive and he still thought that the surgery was great and he went around to the country telling people about the surgery. So I I sometimes refer and often refer to the surgery as stomach amputation surgery. That's something that Marilyn Wan who is the author of fat so amazing book. She uses that term and the reason why she uses that term and the reason why I like that term, although it's not actually that accurate. Is because we want to show a not show how big this is how you are amputating a healthy organ in the pursuit have a smaller body. And the reason why it's not actually that accurate not as accurate is because sometimes people ambulating to amputate their stomach and sometimes they do other things.

Speaker 110:12

And the reason why I say weight loss in quotes weight loss surgery, because as you'll see that actually, the outcome for most people is not weight loss. So it should be called like temporary weight loss surgery where there's a shit ton of terrible side effects. So just so you know, before we get into it, that there are different types of, I'll call it I'll call it weight loss surgery, just for the sake of keeping things simple. There's different types of weight loss surgery. So there is the gastric band, which is when a like a circle, a band is put around someone's stomach, and then it is inflated with with liquid so that the stomach is made smaller. And that is something that you can have the band deflated so it's not squeezing the stomach. And that is what a lot of people have done after they've seen the side effects of having that gastric band. Another thing is, is the balloon, which is literally having a balloon, not one that you probably have at your birthday, but having a balloon in your stomach inflating so it makes the volume of his stomach getting smaller. Now there's also something called the gastric bypass, which is cutting off some stomach sometimes not cutting off stomach from what I've understood, sometimes it's literally just bypassing some of the intestines and so that you're not absorbing as much of the nutrients in that food. Therefore you're getting kind of less of the food and also your stomach is cut smaller sometimes so that you have a smaller stomach so you can't eat as much. And then the last one which is the called the sleeve which is where like I think about 90% of your stomach is cut off, thrown in the bin thrown in the garbage. And to be never seen again and you're left with they call it a sleeve because it's like a little sleeve like a little pocket. You can also get one which is like a tiny pouch. So that is just so we know what we're talking about that is what weight loss surgery is. Now I want to share with you the most common risks of weight loss surgery and obviously all surgery has risks. There is no surgery that is completely risk free. I don't remember there is I don't know but there's risks into it everything. But it has been said that weight loss surgery has the IS is the if not one of the riskiest surgeries for death and complication and also is the most expensive and the most money making for surgeons. So most common risks, hair loss ulcer leaks. I'll explain more about that in a minute. Gastric bleeding, bowel obstruction, gall stones. I've had gall stones I've had my gallbladder removed. I had I had gall stones from a from a child. I think it's it's something to do with with my blood. There's different reasons why you get bauxites Anyway, I had gall stones as as a kid, they fucking suck. I had to have my gallbladder removed, which sucked anyway, so gall stones suck, dehydration, acid reflux, anesthesia related risks, chronic nausea and vomiting, dilation of the esophagus, inability to eat certain foods infection, obstruction of the stomach, weight gain or failure to lose weight. Now the long term side effects are dumping syndrome. I'm gonna tell you what dumping syndrome is in a minute. Low blood sugar malnutrition, vomiting, ulcers, bowel obstruction and hernias dumping syndrome. It's basically what it sounds like shitting your pants so the this is all from the Mayo Clinic so the Mayo Clinic says dumping syndrome is a medical condition in which your stomach empties its contents into the first part of your small intestine. The duodenum faster than normal dumping syndrome is also known as rapid gastric emptying. People with dumping syndrome experience symptoms like nausea and abdominal cramping. These symptoms happen because your small intestine cannot absorb nutrients from food that has not been digested properly in the stomach. And you basically shut your pants have diarrhea So other side effects, you know, we mentioned about the malabsorption of nutrients. So nutrient deficiencies long term in this way, are really damaging to the body, and is a cause for neurological decline, which I didn't know about and premature aging of the body not like the way that you look, although I don't know. But that doesn't matter anyway. It a lot of people are not aware that the extent that they have to the tablets and the supplements that they need to take to get over this severe lack in food and what that does to your body. And so a lot of people have been told, Oh, just take a normal multivitamin that your regular Joe Schmo on the street takes, and that is like woefully inadequate to keep people have had the surgery healthy, it's actually the regimen that people need for the rest of their lives, can cost hundreds of dollars a month. And if you can't afford to do that, then it's going to have consequences on your health. Unfortunately.

Speaker 116:14

Something else that is really interesting is so this stuff here that I'm gonna be talking about is in Christie Harrison's book, anti diet, which is excellent, you should absolutely read it. And something that Christie talks about is that people who have this surgery, they have a doubled, doubled risk of substance abuse problems. And so alcohol or, or drugs, problems. And so these are people who previously didn't have any issues with with any substance abuse. And as well, substance abuse tends to manifest in younger people, so people in their 20s. But it showed that the study that I'm talking about showed that the substance abuse are happening to people in their 40s 50s and 60s, when they previously hadn't drunk alcohol. And now some people say, Oh, that's probably because if you have weight loss surgery, you're clearly addicted to food, the quotation marks on addicted, and so they're swapping one addiction for another. But actually, that is not what they found. Because one, food addiction isn't real. Now, food addiction isn't real. Because if you get more access to the thing, food that you that you desire, the food addiction behaviors and feelings decline. Whereas with a real addiction, the more access you have to drugs or alcohol, then your symptoms increase because you just want more and more and more. And so it's not an addiction. Also, studies have shown that the what happens in the brain, just like if you just have a hug from someone, or you see a picture of a cat, like when you have food, you need to have that those feel good hormones and chemicals in your brain need to be stimulated and activated. But not to the extent or something like drugs or alcohol. You know, we need to want to eat right, it's a part of what makes keeps us alive is the desire and the enjoyment around eating. But it's not the same as something that you can actually be addicted to. And as well people say, Oh, you can be addicted to sugar. Same No, you can't. It's because you've you get more access to it. Those, those feelings of addiction actually decline. So, so these people who had the substance abuse issues post surgery, it's because the because of the size of their stomachs, the alcohol hit their brains at double the rate that it normally works. So if they had two units of alcohol, it would feel in their brain that they had four. And so they were getting this high. And this burrs way more quickly, which in turn calls that addictive type behavior. And as well, because they could only have these teeny tiny stomachs they couldn't eat food to take away from the effects of the alcohol. So this is what was found in this study. Other things 4.6% of people who have the surgery are dead within a year and another study shows that three out of every 1000 People die within 30 days. Here's the kicker. Here's the kicker. Most people regain weight that was lost during after the surgery. So what happens normally, and obviously, every single person is different. So not everyone is going to have bad side effects, some people are going to be like I had weight loss surgery, it was best thing of my life. Now I'm really thin and happy, and I've had no side effects and everything's great. You know, there's going to be people who are like that, and there's going to be people who are somewhere in the middle, and there's going to be people who have died. So this is not kind of like a blanket, this is happening to everyone. But this is this is what the studies are showing. So what happens generally, is that within 12, to 18 months after the surgery, people have reached their lowest weight. And then from there, that is when the weight starts coming back on. And that is through no fault of their own. It's not because they're just, you know, these, these people are so greedy, that they're just eating all the food is because our bodies want to be at the weight that they have previously been at the setpoint weight. And when that's there's this extreme forced starvation, which is what it is, because when you have this surgery, you can only tiny amounts of food. So you know, very low, low calorie consumption, and only the the beautiful nutrients that we need to live as human beings. And so our body, exactly what happens when we are on a diet, our body does all the things it does to get you to a place where it's safe and happy because you're in this forced extreme starvation. So a quote from this study all of this, I'm going to link in the show notes. By the way, this study is called long term weight regain after gastric bypass a five year prospective study, quote, percent BMI loss was no longer significant after 24 months, and weight regain became significant within 48 months after surgery. So basically, people will lose weight, but then within five years, they've put the weight back on. So two years after the surgery, 46% of people have regained weight. And four years after the surgery, it's 63%. And presuming presumably, year after year, that number goes up and up and up because there's no reason for it to go down again, right. So chances are you have this weight loss surgery, it's not actually going to make you thin. Now, I want to share something from junk food science, which is an amazing website. And this is written by Sandy Sua. As I said, W A, R C swag. So I'm going to link to this as well. Quote, bariatric surgeries have been described as the as a gold rush in medicine because they're one of the most profitable medical procedures done today. According to Dr. Edward H. Livingston, MD professor of surgery at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas. Last year, it was $7.8 billion industry and last year was when this was written was 2006 and enjoying exponential growth increasing some 1,100% since 1995. Continuing in the more than 40 years that bariatric surgeries have been performed, there have been no randomized controlled clinical trials that have shown any long term improvements to actual health, or that lives are saved or extended by the surgeries. Not any of the dozens of types and variations being performed and certainly none of the new procedures claiming to be better and safer. So the new new procedures that they're talking about here is the lap band stuff. According to quote unquote obesity researcher Dr. earns Berger PhD of Case Western Reserve School of Medicine Cleveland, Ohio, several clinical studies to examine the long term consequences and look for improved life expectancies have been started. But the results were never released. Quote, I think it's because it's bad news. Continuing the ECRI report, bariatric surgery for the quote unquote obese noted that the surgeries can produce significant significant initial weight loss. But three years after surgery, the typical patient is still quote unquote obese. Most importantly, they concluded that based on the quality and strength of the available evidence, claims of improved quality of life and long term health impacts are less conclusive. The Mayo Clinic reported in 2000. That's 20 to 25% of gastric bypass patients develop life threatening complications. But the recent LapBand clinical trials done to earn the FDA FDA approval reported 89% of patients had at least least one adverse event 1/3 of them severe complications from lap bands are more likely to require surgery to correct and the band's result in so, so much more vomiting. They are known as surgically induced bulimia among medical professionals. And finally, a recent study by researchers at Virginia Commonwealth University found that 56% of bariatric patients had 62 Different gastro intestinal complications and abnormalities by CT scans. So that is from junk food science, great resource for all the science on all fatty stuff. Something from another thing from Christie Harrison's book anti diet is Christie says that this is the most lucrative so surgical speciality and costs 15 to 25,000 US dollars per procedure and a lot of insurance companies won't pay for it.

Speaker 126:03

lindo bacon incredible wrote Health at Every Size body respect. Linda Bacon says bariatric surgery would be more appropriately labeled high risk disease inducing cosmetic surgery than unhealth than a health enhancing procedure. Hmm, well, well, well. Next, a study came out two years ago, remember when it came out about the increased suicide rates of people who've had the surgery. So I'm going to link to this as well. Quote from this study. based on their analysis, the estimated suicide rate for bariatric surgery population is 4.1 deaths per 10,000 patients, when compared to the World Health Organization's suicide data for the general population, the investigated, investigators reported a four fold increased risk of death by suicide among patients who underwent weight loss surgery, so you're four times more likely to die by suicide. Now, so we know all this, this is you know, if you have a surgeon who is ethical, they will present to you the realities of what this means now they're probably not going to say by the way, this is this surgery is 64% chance not going to result in weight loss, long term weight loss, you'll temporarily lose weight, and then you'll put it back on 64% chance of that, they're probably not going to say that, they're probably not going to tell you that you're going to have four times the risk of suicide, because that's a newest study came out a couple of years ago. But hopefully they reveal all of the other things and but some surgeons of the medical team supporting them don't really emphasize how much people's lives are changed, and how much they have to spend on care for themselves to make sure that they get enough vitamins and nutrients and all that type of stuff. And also you have the effect that not being able to eat food has on your life in general, because food is very social food is communities is like spending time with your community, and a way to share love and happy times and and as well, it could be something which is a great coping strategy for some people. Of course, not every fat person uses food as a coping strategy at all. But if that's taken away, that can be difficult if your family is having this big, beautiful meal and you can only a couple of things, you know, like if it's Christmas or Thanksgiving or whatever it is that can be very isolating, not being able to go out and on a night out with your friends or you know, things like that because you physically can't unless you go out and just had no sip some water. You know, your life is change in so many ways, and a lot of them are social. And then the how it feels for those who put on weight, which is the majority of people how much shame they must feel. I read. I read people's accounts and how they felt like they were the only one that they were so fucked up, that they couldn't control themselves so much that they even surgery couldn't help them because they were so out of control. All ingredients bad. But really, your body is doing exactly what it needs to do to keep you alive. So, something that Lisa Dubray Lisa debris is an incredible psychotherapist and clinical social worker says about people who get who go for the surgery. This is what Lisa says. What we know when we look at what research has been done is that a lot of fat people that are interested in pursuing these surgeries have really high rates of internalized weight stigma. There is a study that was done years ago that compared the psychological profiles of fat people going to Weight Watchers, and fat people pursuing weight loss surgery. And what they found was that the fat people that were going to Weight Watchers, their psychological profiles were in line with the general public. So about average rates of depression and anxiety and things like that. The fat folks that were pursuing weight loss surgery had psycho psychological profiles in line with psychiatric patients, meaning significant levels of mood disorders, anxiety, trauma, history, things like that. So again, it's not to say that everyone because we can't keep track of everyone, but you know, I think there's a lot of evidence to say that a lot of people that are pursuing an interest in in the surgery are feeling pretty desperate, and dealing with a lot of internalized weight stigma, and that doesn't get treated by the surgery. Another perspective about this is from Caitlyn andalo. Caitlyn is known as reframe your story on Instagram, I'm going to link to their account, and Caitlyn on on their Instagram shared a picture of the belly. With surgical scars. They're just like little, little things little puts in in their belly. And this is what it goes along with that image. This is what my eating disorder looked like five small incisions from my weight loss surgery, there was no part of me that made a decision to have weight loss surgery from a place of self love. It came from deep self hatred and a longing to be accepted. I told myself, it didn't have to do with weight loss, it was about my health. I thought I was a ticking time bomb and that if I stay in this body, it would inevitably lead to health issues. I thought it would be only a matter of time. When the majority of society views your body as part of an epidemic, and a strain on society, it makes sense that a person would want to change that. So people make the decision to have their stomachs banded, amputated, and rerouted, they are encouraged by doctors and by other professionals to put a permanent physical restriction on themselves. The most sick part of this is that I knew and wanted there to be pain if I ate one bite too many. So I had to face the consequences of living in my body. The true consequence of all of this, and a lifetime of being told my body was wrong, was falling deeper into my eating disorder behaviors. And for that I was praised. People who didn't even really know me would come up and tell me how inspired they were by my weight loss. Regardless of intention, praising my weight loss was praising my eating disorder. So that is from reframe your story on Instagram, Caitlin on delay. Now, another account of weight loss surgery because by the way, in case it wasn't obvious, I haven't had any surgery. Myself, although weight weight loss surgery or bariatric surgery. Hello? How fucking Yes, did I want it? I remember being a teenager watching those. Those shows, I think in the US are called like Girls Gone Wild. But it was like the UK version where young young people went to like Ibiza and stuff and they would they would show their text to the camera. And I remember sitting on the sofa watching that late at night seeing girls showing their tits and being like, I'm not thin, like they're my, my tits don't look like this. I can't become thin. So I really want to have bariatric surgery. That was like my goal. And I was at that time I was a child. I was probably 15 1617 Something like that. But I was just like, oh, one day when I'm old enough. I'm going to get that and that is going to fix my problem.

Speaker 135:01

So anyway, so I haven't had it but I definitely did dream about having it. Now someone who had it recently and someone that is quite well known is Roxane Gay. Roxane Gay is the author of you might recognize Roxanne from her books, hunger and bad feminist and she has other books too, but they probably the most recognizable. Roxanne wrote a brilliant piece on her decision to have surgery. And what happened on medium? Again, I'm going to link to that in the shownotes. But let me I'm going to read some quotes from that piece. This is not the whole piece in total, and these are just kind of snippets. So Roxanne says, I capitulated to a procedure after more than 15 years of resistance and how the sleeve gastrectomy at the UCLA Ronald Reagan Hospital in January 2018. I told only a few people, I did not tell my family, I felt in equal parts hope, defeat, frustration, and disgust. She continues. The truth is that my desire for weight loss has long been about satisfying other people more than myself, finding a way to fit more peacefully into a world that is not at all interested in accommodating a body like mine. And the dominant culture cultural attitude towards fatness is that the fat body is a medical problem a drain on society and aesthetic blight. As a fat person, I'm supposed to want to lose weight. I'm supposed to be working on the problem of my body. I'm supposed to apply discipline to physical unruliness. I'm not supposed to be fine with my body I'm not supposed to yearn simply for people to let me be to see me accept me and treat me with dignity exactly as I am. She continues. After more than 15 years of refusing it, I made the decision to get weight loss surgery. On an ordinary day. At home in Lafayette, Indiana, a young man yelled at me to move my fat black ass. While I was crossing a grocery store parking lot to my car. It was the last straw. I tried to hold my head high shuffled as quickly as I could put my groceries in my car and sat behind the steering wheel. I sat there shaking, wishing I could have been as quick in that moment to put him in his place as I would have been online. I wanted to call someone for comfort. But I was at a silent impasse with the only person to whom I could talk. Instead, I pressed my head against the steering wheel and sobbed when I collected myself I drove home and went to bed. I hoped I might not wake up, but I did. She continues. The dominant narrative around weight loss surgery is that it changes your life and makes everything better. It is a lovely fantasy that by cutting yourself open and having parts of yourself removed. Everything that weighed you down will be lifted. But it is only a fantasy. She continues. They saw the psychologist I saw for my pre surgical evaluation warmed her that warns that the first year is really difficult. And many patients end up suffering from depression and regretting the surgery. The second year is better, she said, trying to reassure me after my face fell, and she was right. I am depressed and miserable. I am cold all the time and exhausted because I'm only eating between 12 115 100 calories. I'm filled with regrets because everything has changed. But everything is exactly the same. She continues, I've replaced one set of anxieties with another. I worry I'm eating too much and stretching my new stomach something I was warned about repeatedly and vigorously. I have brief moments where I allow myself to imagine hiking Runyon Canyon or wearing a fabulous outfit because it is available in my size or going to see a musical without having to make special arrangements. And then I tell myself to get a hold of myself. I tell myself to not want I tell myself that I've failed to dismiss discipline my body before and I will probably fail this time too. I tell myself these things because I've carried this weight for almost 30 years. And it is terrifying to face who I could be without it. So that is excerpts from a piece that Roxane Gay wrote on medium and it's called what fullness is so you can find that on medium. Or you can just go to the show notes where the link is going to be there for you. Now, Roxanne is I don't know, Roxanne's exact size. But I know that she, I think that she might be a super fat. I know from reading her work that, you know, even just reading that piece not being able to fit in to go to a theater without making arrangements beforehand. So I'm presuming that I know, she's not a small fat person, she is a, she's a large fat person, she is a super fat, she might be an inferior fat, I don't know for sure. But I want to recognize that she's also a woman, she's also a black woman walking through the world with these different intersections, and I don't know if she has other the other things is really fucking difficult. So why wouldn't you take that chance at living a life which, of course, you know, a lot of weight loss places will paint it as this you know, very and roses and you know, fairy tale and roses and unicorns and all that type of stuff. But, you know, we're intelligent, we know that it's probably going to be hard and all that type of stuff. But I don't know what it's like to be a fatter than I am, to, to be black. To be also in the public eye. Roxanne shares in this article about how people constantly make memes of her have images of her and, and tweet them at her. And she's constantly barraged with people reminding her that her body is not good. And so it makes total sense to me, that Roxanne words elect for surgery, that pressure must be immense that the weight of people's expectations, like she mentioned in this article, she did it for other people, basically, it must be overwhelming, even if there's a almost 5% chance that you will die. For a lot of people. They are close to dying right now. But the thing is, the thing that's really heartbreaking is that for most people, this won't make them thin. And I don't think that people know that when they go into the surgery that 64% chance, just after four years. And we don't have the data past that, because there's been 1000s of studies on weight loss surgery, but only a tiny, tiny, teeny tiny fraction are actually usable. Because the rest aren't good science. And so we have hardly any data. And also a big problem when it comes to the science around this stuff. Is that the follow up with patients after a certain amount of years, the patients don't come back for follow up. Now, I don't know for sure. But I can guess why would a patient not come back for follow up? Because they're fat, again, they've put weight on. And they've blamed themselves versus blaming a faulty product, weight loss surgery. And I know in the States, it's you know, it's for profit. And so it's going to be even more, you know, worse and extreme and, and unethical practices and all that type of stuff. But of course, every country has weight loss surgery, and as well. Talking about weight loss surgery for children. And I want to roundhouse kick kick people in the face who thinks that is appropriate to amputate and healthy organ over from a child? Oh, dear God, please, all those people who those children have had it done already. I just want to just go and hug them and tell them that their body is perfect. And obviously I wouldn't do that because they'd be like, go away. It's weird. I'm just trying to put on my bike or whatever. But

Speaker 144:10

so, weight loss surgery, some people will lose weight and keep it off. We don't really know what percent. What we do know is that most people won't. But imagine if you know you're thinking as I did going into diets, well, I'm going to be with diets 95% Fail. I'm going to be the 5% because I really want this I'm really desperate to be thin. And so let's pretend that you are that that percent that is able to lose weight. That question the question that I would want to consider is but at what cost? I always think about the the unicorns who do lose weight, what their life is like, what they're having to do. do to maintain that weight loss? How are they eating? How are they relating to food? Are they forcing themselves to move their body bodies in ways that they don't? Like? What's their mental health? Like? Are they happy? Are they fulfilled? Do they like their body? Do they hate themselves, it's super painful, this stuff is super painful. And it makes absolute sense that people would choose this is your choice, you can do anything that you want to your body, of course, but looking at the statistics around it, it's not actually effective. And the amount of side effects remember that one said 89% of people from the lap band had at least one side effect. And most people had severe side effects, like you have to make decision is it worth it for you to be constantly shitting your pants because of the dumping syndrome, to be vomiting all the time to not be able to enjoy meals with people in the way that you did before, to have gastro intestinal issues to have a hardcore regimen of of tablets that you need to take every day to try and get the nutrients that you would have got previously from food to have your life change. And you for a lot of people, they can't reverse it. Especially you've had if you've had your stomach amputated, that's gone into being that's long gone, you can't grow your stomach back. It's irreversible. Is that worth a one in three chance for you to be smaller, but also have unknown side effects? And no, I don't know. You know, it's not my place to say you shouldn't do it. I personally wouldn't do it. Because obviously, I think that my body is fine as it is. And I know that if I want to become healthy that there are you know, if I want to improve health, there are lots of different ways that you can do that without working to try and lose weight, which is ineffective. So yeah, so that is weight loss surgery, aka bariatric surgery, aka stomach amputation surgery. I wanted to talk about this. It's kind of like a one of those things that's been on my mind mind for a while. And I don't know if it's if it's obvious Me, either. But I wanted to clearly state that, if you've had this surgery doesn't mean that you're, you're bad or you're not smart, or you're, you're you're it's all about vanity or any no like or if you're thinking about it, or if you're going to get it done. This shit is difficult. Living as a fat person is hard. You know. And so a lot of people come back to me, and they're like, Oh, I followed you for a bit. But then I went away because I wanted to do another diet. And guess what, you know, it's failed. And, and I'm like, I get it. I get it. Why not? If you think that you've got this last chance to be happy, to be healthy, to have a rich and full life. And you think that it might work for you? Why would you not take that? But do you have all the information? Hopefully, this podcast has given you a lot of information that maybe people haven't previously shared. So it makes sense that people have it. You're not a bad person, if you have it, you're not a bad person if you're planning on having it. Because shit, life is complicated. But just know, the chances are, it won't make you thin and won't make you healthy. It probably won't make you happy. In fact, you're more likely to die by suicide. Okay, so let's move into the stories that people are sharing. And these are all public comments on my most recent Instagram post and the most recent Instagram post is an overview of all of these stats, right, a quick overview. Also what I've done is since since I recorded that episode, I have collected even more studies about the weight loss surgery and we have 1-234-567-1819 2021 2230 620-728-2931 31 studies supporting this stuff. So little alarm. If you're late or in science, then go ahead something to note with the studies. If you want to know about things to look out for in studies about how to read them. We have an episode on that. So go back a few episodes if you want to know about like how to read science and because Sometimes people who are presenting information can can be share things in a way, which is maybe not as, you know, what their, what their findings are. And so you might see the summary and it says people lost loads of weight or a significant reduction in weight and and then you'll look into it and actually see it was like two pounds or like what does what do they mean by that? And so if you click on any of these studies, it says that you know, fat people are losers, go and look and see what it actually says. Because and of course, a lot of these studies are just showing you know what we're talking about the episode. So let's talk about stories. And by the way, show notes. First of all, e forward slash episode we on 165 We find it and refine it. Revita is at 175. Yes, what is x five? For all of these links? And there's more links as well outside of those things. Who a lot of stuff. What else do I need to tell you? Oh, yeah, if you'd like this then if you liked this episode, and you appreciate the work that I do, go to cofee link in the show notes. Bio cofee first fatty and you can send me a coffee or you can subscribe to get free stuff from me. Yeah, so if you like, if you like the stuff you're hearing go do that if you don't, and you know, don't. Okay, so I'm gonna read the stories now. Trigger warning on hearing awful shit about surgery, you know? So, yeah, and by the way, I'm presenting the information of people who haven't had a good time with the surgery, because I think it's important to share those stories because often, we only hear the opposite stories. There is like, the tiniest corner on the internet, just like a tiny little, you know, area that talks about the adverse effects of weight loss surgery. And 99.99%. That's not real stat of places talk about how great surgery is. So there's a few people commenting like maybe one or two. One, commenting saying I had a good experience one or two maybe. And we have a number of comments on that post. But overwhelmingly, people are saying this was fucked up and I think it's important to share their stories. Okay, so stories from followers responding to my post about bariatric surgery. My mum almost died in 2013 from an internal hernia related to a gastric bypass. She hadn't 2007 Thankfully, thankfully, she has recovered, still struggles with digestive issues daily, but it was incredibly scary, scary and the insurance company denied all claims because they said it was a complication related to the surgery. Two weeks in the ICU under medical sedation, seven surgeries four more weeks in the hospital, four weeks in a nursing home and because she was discharged too soon, she was back in the hospital two more times. Anytime I hear anyone talk about having weight loss surgery, I tell them about my mum, no matter how well I know them. My aunt had the surgery in the 80s when she was should I share weight? No, I'm not gonna share weight when she was fat, and again in the 90s because the staples used to close the wounds literally tore apart inside her. She never lost any weight and after surgery, seven surgeries seven surgeries have over four decades. She's 80 and a super fat person. She spent her whole life hating her body and in pain trying to change it. Her story is heartbreaking. And even though everyone saw up and down her life would be a short one aside from the surgeries and the complications from them. She's healthy, healthy, and we'll likely see 90

Speaker 154:09

I had a gastric sleeve and 2019 Develop SEER good, unknown complication of the sleeve and was revised to bypass in 2020 has since regained much of the significant weight loss I initially lost. It's not the cure I expected and hoped for it didn't fix my quote diet brain on my eating habits. I have come to realize that I will never be in a small body and I'm learning how to appreciate the body I have for what it can do. Would I go back and do the surgery knowing what I know now? I don't think so. Although the process did lead me to where I am now with body acceptance and neutrality. It took a desperate act to make me take a serious look at what was really happening in my mind. I'm a much better I'm in a much better place now. I had lap banding here in Australia but In 2014, lost significant amount of weight. And then I started to stop substituting my meals for another addiction. I was consuming two liters of wine every second night, I started gaining back all the weight and stuffed my heart with with years of yo yo dieting. I'm not at my heaviest and dealing with more issues, and I had pre surgery, pretty sure I should be diagnosed with an eating disorder. People think purging is okay. But honestly, it's a side effect. What's healthy about cutting an organ in half? Nothing. I have nothing against people who choose to go this path, but I think there should be more psychological component to it. And one of those those is getting it signed off by a dietician who specializes in haze, and a clearance from from a disordered eating or eating just or D eating disorder in general. Yeah, that's the thing is a lot of people say that they're hoping that their eating disorder or disordered eating or diet brain will go away after they have surgery. But it doesn't, they just can't eat as much but their brain is still in the exact same place. And really what needs to happen is that they they need to have support to overcome their their EDI, you know, not not add on this another layer that's going to complicate their recovery. I lost a friend earlier this month to complications from gastric bypass this hits home and I hope folk share it wide within our community. We have to protect each other because they don't care if we survive. And that's the thing is we don't hear from the people that die, right. We don't hear their stories because they're not here to tell them. I had a non invasive version of gastric bypass when my stomach was sewn up only I wasn't given any support and left to deal with it myself, which I did. I follow God I follow the gastric bypass diet etc became horribly obsessive and could barely function on five to 800 calories a day, my weight started creeping up again, despite sticking to that low number of calories. I had no choice I would get horribly sick or dumping syndrome if I went over that. I already had autoimmune liver disease. And they had talked me into this as a way of improving that improving my stomach issues and improving what they said was non alcoholic fatty liver disease, which two years later, after two MRIs they concluded I never even had, they ended up asking me to increase my calories and food intake because my liver markers started to worsen rapidly and continually. I started having issues with everything else I acquired more food intolerances, I couldn't continue to put on weight, which meant my diet of five to 800 calories was definitely not allowing me to function. It took me a year to increase my daily intake to enough to function again. By that point I put on all the weight that on that I had lost my liver markers did start to improve but never returned returned to what they were before the procedure, which was stable. I had constant stomach issues by then I'm still being offered weight loss surgery. Despite how badly a reversible version went. I only started eating normal portions of food late last year because of the meds I am on now. Prednisone although being on steroids has improved my stomach issues that I've had since since and food intolerances have improved too. Isn't it wild that even though these people who've had surgeries, they'll continue to be pushed surgeries even after they had surgeries and the surgery didn't work. And here's another thing is, a lot of times they say something is reversible. And it can be but sometimes it's not. Sometimes your stomach will never get back to what it was before. And sometimes your body in the way it functions will never get back to the way it was before. So the procedure might be reversible, but the effects that it has on your on your body and your mental health might not be reversible. I had gastric sleeve done in 2021 to reverse liver damage done by my birth control. My hepatologist told me weight loss was the only cure for it. That's not true. The surgery did fix my liver, but it also gave me good and other health complications. Even now my body will randomly reject foods and make me vomit. I found the entire process to be dehumanizing. And the majority of the bat bariatric community that I interacted with was incredibly toxic. Something to consider even if one's insurance company does pay for the initial procedure. They often do not pay for any subsequent necessary revision surgeries to address complications. Yeah, that's a really good point. Think about, you know, the poor Americans who don't have health care and you're just left with really expensive consequences, which are not supported around. Okay, so here's someone who was a detractor. And I want to share their comment, and then someone else's comment, because I thought that that was was helpful and interesting. So this person says, this post is extremely disappointing. Most of these facts are exaggerated or only partial facts, this kind of post perpetuates a systemic bias against weight loss surgery. By the way, there is no systemic bias against weight loss surgery. It's the opposite. Like, there's like, you know, like I mentioned, there's hardly anywhere that you can find any information on the negative negative outcomes of weight loss surgery. Okay, so this post perpetuates the systemic bias against weight loss surgery, which further stigmatize is the procedure for those who could benefit from it. And as someone who's going through the process to get it right now, none of these facts line up with a current research. The procedures have come a long way since 30 years ago, and when they were still using lap bands, shame on you. So this person is in it right there in it. And so someone responded, and I thought this, this response was, was interesting. So someone responded to that comment and said, I gotta say, I sounded exactly like you months before my RN, Why ruin why? As a type of surgery, I had a smattering of friends that tried to convince me to rethink my decision that provided the information that this post is giving you, I wish I would have listened. But I was so stuck in the mind. Fuck that the surgeons paid for corporations, I later discovered, were feeding me, my surgeon literally told me, I've been doing this surgery for a decade and never saw one complication, which I later learned was a lie, a big lie. Sidenote, surgeons don't have that follow up information, right? You know, you know, a surgeon who does a surgery might you might follow up in a few weeks after your, after your surgery. Three months, let's be generous, let's say a year post surgery. And, and so people a lot of time at the year point are in their honeymoon period of Oh, great. I've lost loads of weight. And then in the subsequent years, that's when things start fucking up. And then the surgeons don't get to see that, right? They don't get to see the real life impact of mutilating someone's body. And they and they don't people have the surgery don't have that support. Because you know, the surgeons are like, see you later, right? I've done my job. So the surgeon could have genuinely thought that, oh, people don't have complications, because they don't have that experience of seeing people with complications. But that does sound like a lie to say I've never seen someone have complications. I mean, that's I mean, especially for surgery like this. That is that's that's risky, right? Okay, a little a little alone. Okay, so I let it let it learn. It was a big line. And the mindfuck the dye industry fed me that being skinny equals being healthy here. I said eight years, three years later, reading a rebuttal, I easily could have made myself not knowing how much less healthy I'd be after surgery, and that I'd regain almost all of my weight back not because I quote didn't follow the rules didn't stick to the program. But literally because my body, it's hormones, its composition and how I process the fuel I give it fights every day to be at the body size, I am predetermined to be at, please quiet that mindfuck is long enough to read the responses to this post, then have a conversation with yourself about why you're having the surgery. That's all I suggest. Because I wish someone would have told me what we are telling you now.

Speaker 101:04:09

Yeah, so when you're in it, you know, you know, when you're in diet, culture, diet land. It's really hard to hear this stuff, right. It's really hard. And some people won't be able to they won't be able to hear it. It's not they're not at that point. And I wish that we could share this information and then people were like, oh, okay, you know, thank you and whatever and maybe this isn't the best option for me or what you know, whatever happens. But I think back to when I was in diet land. If someone said to me, listen, by the way, you know, I know you're in Weight Watchers right now and you're even one of those people that weighs people that comes into Weight Watchers and you know, I know that you know that you've lost weight and you've been successful because you worked hard, not like those other lazy people. But no, you're gonna put on way and it's not gonna work and Allah Allah, I would have been like, Fuck off, fuck you, I would have been so angry. And so you know, and that person said said, shame on you, to me, I would have probably said something like that to shame on you, I'm doing something good for my health, and you're lying to me about these things. I'm living proof that diets work because I've managed to keep lose weight and keep it off for like, two months. So you know, it would have been very, very difficult and impossible. And so I think this information is helpful for people who are who would like gathering information and who are open and curious and who aren't maybe necessarily really, really invested in diet culture and, and anti fat bias. Because if we want the surgery, and we've just, you know, we, you know, all of the hopes and the dreams that come from potentially being thinner from a surgery, we're gonna, we're gonna go and google success stories after best bariatric surgery, right? Wouldn't you be I would be, I'd be Googling like, all of these people who have a wonderful outcomes and being like, Oh my God, that's gonna be me. Oh my god, like, in a year's time, I'm gonna be so thin. And when I'm thin, then I'm gonna be you know, everyone's gonna really want to have sex with me and I'm going to be so successful and I'm going to wear thin clothes and Lola it's someone coming along and and saying that that that is not a reality for many people. I would have been really mad and told them to fuck off. So, you know. Okay, continuing more comments. My first job as an RD was in clinical saw too many patients with poor outcomes following weight loss surgery. Thank you for this post. My mum had the band surgery in the early 2000s lost a ton of weight, because she couldn't keep anything down. anytime she tried to eat majority of the time, she'd end up only having a few bites and then having to throw up. This got so bad that she decided to have it reversed. Fast forward to 2020 and she decided to do the gastric sleeve, despite COVID Being new and in full swing. Despite the fact that she had a transplant. She is a transplant patient and a diabetic couldn't wait, made her mind up and then did it. I went to the pre op appointment and had a long list of questions. Of course, the doctor made everything seems super positive and great and no negatives. Like this is a difficult like this is difficult to reverse or that she's likely to have mineral or nutritional imbalances in her stomach acid would be fucked, etc, etc. Again, she's lost a lot of weight, but she's also back to barely being able to eat anything. Just seems like an awful way to live. She's pressuring me to do it on and off. She thinks this is a great answer. We have pretty opposite feelings when it comes to loving your body. And it is an IT is nurturing. Nurturing it versus laser focused on must be thin. These surgeries are wack. It must be really hard to see that. And also it makes me think about the really strong pool that anti fatness has that even though this person's mum had a terrible time and had it reversed that pool, that that pressure of anti fatness is so strong that she's willing to try again, even though she had that shit time. So it just goes to show how powerful this stuff is. Someone says, Oh, very cool. They want to do this to two children. Yeah. So since since I made that original episode it was the American Academy of Pediatrics came out and said that they want to do the surgeries on children. I think I'm gonna make a podcast episode about it. I've been avoiding it. I don't know why. Because I feel like you know, other people have spoken about it. So what's important me talking about it? Well, maybe you want to hear my opinion? My opinion is it's fucked. Yeah, having a roux en y gastric bypass is the single biggest regret of my entire life. I really wish I knew better and never did it. I weigh more now than when I had the surgery done. I have reactive hypoglycemia, adequate. adequately treating my pain I have is a huge issue because I can't take an S A I D s like I prefer ibuprofen and the list goes on. Having had it myself I can totally concur. Worst thing ever. The whole thing from start to now has been a shitshow I'm having my gastric band removed finally after 11 years of utter hell and medical professionals are still say saying with a straight face. Oh yeah, we don't do those anymore. They're not good. But as you're still morbidly obese, why don't you have an have a bypass instead? I had surgery and only kept weight off for a few years. It really takes a toll on your mental health. I felt like I had to starve myself. Just Then, once I began to eat food again, I gained it back, not all just most and now my mental health is worse. I was nicer and happier before I had the surgery. I had my gastric bypass in 2013. I don't regret it as it allowed me to access fertility treatment, and was the only way I would have been eligible. So you look at that, that systemic anti fat bias not being able to access a basic human right of fertility treatment. I've regained weight through early menopause. There is pretty much zero research on the effects of bariatric on menopause and the hormone levels and my mental health and body images taken a lot to work to fix post surgery. Weight loss isn't a cure for anything. A close family member had a very invasive gastric bypass at 69 years old or like that does 69 part of the impetus was to be considered for much needed knee surgery. They are now 85 Living with eggshell fragile bones. Yes, because it's really, it's really can be really bad for your bones. If anyone reading this is considering the surgery, I urge you to really consider what your life will look like as you age. This is too far too often glossed over. Yeah. Wow. And all that was done in 16 years basically eggshell fragile bones in so they had the surgery at 69. Now they're 85. Hopefully they got their knee surgery. I can tell you from personal experience LapBand was horrible. I was so malnourished, I had to get it removed. I had my best friend die two weeks after gastric bypass surgery. I had a friend who had a had failed lap bands. So he got the sleeve. And he analyzed himself one year later, it's not worth it. Oh, that person has had two people who have died due to it. I knew a hospital RN who's floor had an acronym for all the folks back after back in after the surgeries. So RN registered nurse I had a hospital nurse who had an acronym GB GB gastric bypass gone bad. It's more common than anyone let's on. I was all booked to go to Estonia in 2019 to have a gastric sleeve. A week before a 20 year old 22 year old woman died from complications. She was a member of a weight loss surgery Facebook group I was in a council straightaway and I don't regret it the risk of losing half an organ isn't worth it. The risk and losing half an organ isn't worth it. heartbreaking stories out there. The amount of people telling me to go for it. And that were disappointing. I didn't go showed me how much my fatness bothered some people around me. My inlaw got a surgery where they made her stomach like half its size and now it literally takes her and an entire day to work her way through a single meal. So if you want to comment your story, if you want to go read more stories then go to that post

Speaker 101:13:17

in some way Instagram it will be right at the top Yeah, and I hope that you take care of yourself if any of this has been difficult and triggering for you because she this is this is pretty violent stuff that they push on to fat people and if you're considering it and have had it done and a feeling any type of way about yourself that you are you know bad in any way or or feeling you're feeling like shit and you know I don't want I don't want that to you know you to feel like that and you know who's to blame for all of this stuff. It's not you it's a systemic anti fat bias that is super violent. And so if you're feeling any type of shame for any reason, any reason hold a mirror up pointing that shame back to where it needs to belong the person you know the systems that are perpetuating anti fat bias so well thanks for hanging out with me today. Again if you like the show and you want to support me go to the show notes go to Kofi KOF I first fatty and you can send me five bucks if you want or more. And I appreciate you being here and stay fierce fatty. I'll see you in a while Oh alligator goodbye II

Unknown01:14:57

perfect

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