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Illuminating Silence #3 | Otter.ai

Illuminating Silence #3

John Pulleyn40min

John Pulleyn

00:04

This is the third day of this November. 2025, seven day. Sesshin, going to continue with illuminating silence insights on the path of Chinese Zen by Master Sheng yen and Dr John H crook,

John Pulleyn

00:36

and picking right up where we left off yesterday. I this is a continuation of Sheng yen day to evening lecture, and he asks his audience, people in sesshin now for the last two days, what have you found to be the most difficult element in practice? Is it when we're dozing off, or is it when we have wandering thoughts? Pick your poison. He says, When sleepiness is the greater problem, it may be due to a lack of energy or to a temporary malaise, a cold or a virus, if you're practicing well and a great sleepiness comes, then sometimes there's nothing that can really help. If you become really exhausted, very exhausted, then it's important to take a rest, but if you lack energy through laziness or are merely a little drowsy, then if you increase your breathing or take some fresh air or do some exercises, you May energize yourself again. Roshi Kapleau used to fill a basin, sink, basin up with cold water, stick his head in there and open his eyes and blink them. He found that really helpful. Taking a walk if you're sitting late at night doing yaza, sometimes doing quinine vigorously, someplace where you're not disturbing other people, not thumping on the on the deck, out in the porch, out in the courtyard. I've sometimes done yaza Down in the exercise room. It's often nobody there, and it's a big area where you can walk quite freely.

John Pulleyn

02:57

Uchiyama yo Roshi, the Japanese Zen teacher talked about working with drowsiness, and he wrote a book called opening the hand of thought. And the conceit there, the idea there, is that when a thought comes into the mind, if it doesn't pass right out, it's because we've grasped it. We've it's like we've taken something in our hand and we're tacking other thoughts onto it, or doing whatever, reacting in one way or another, says, if you notice a thought coming into the mind, just open the hand of thought. So let go. It's very simple move. Everybody can do that. You have to recognize the thought when it comes in. If it's there's a lot that sneak in under the under the edges. Get through our radar, our mindfulness awareness. But when you see it, just let go. We're maintaining a state of awareness, of absorption in whatever practice we have, whether it's breathing practice or koan, that's our that's our baseline. Thought comes and we sort of bounce up off of the baseline, but we come right back down. We can come right back down. It's similar with drowsiness. When you have that feeling, oh, it would be so nice to lay my head down. It's seductive, isn't it, the body is primed, but when you notice, just let go, let go of that thought come back to that basic. Practice awareness. Sheng yen says Wang Ming doesn't discuss the problem of falling asleep, perhaps in his day, practitioners never lacked energy.

John Pulleyn

05:21

So hard to know what the nature was of people who lived so long ago, not just for Zen practice, but historically, all we know is our own age. Of course, there's been a tendency through the years, for every period, to look back on the past and say times were better. In Buddhism, there's the theme of the Dharma ending age supposedly predicted by the Buddha. In my mind, more likely, added in by later writers, a lot of words got put into the Buddhist mouth long after he had died. But there's this idea that gradually the Dharma will die out, and each generation is a little farther from the source the or maybe, maybe it's true. Certainly, we live in a more distracted time, more things grabbing our attention,

John Pulleyn

06:40

and yet, people today can see their own nature can come to awakening when the mind is empty. Everything is unified. There it is. It's not hidden away.

John Pulleyn

07:09

The simple fact is, we're living now. This is our life now. It's no use bewailing some condition which supposedly would have been better. We've been living hundreds and hundreds of years ago, we might already be dead.

John Pulleyn

07:37

So that's drowsiness. And then he says the remaining problem is the wandering thoughts. You know how to deal with wandering thoughts. First step is to recognize when the mind is wandering. Often it comes over you so subtly that you do not even notice of course, we've said this already, then suddenly we say, What on earth am I thinking about? So we have to be mindful of what we are doing in our practice, and when we do detect that our minds have wandered, it's important not to feel an irritation with oneself or an aversion towards the thoughts. It's a very important point. Sure you've heard it before, but that initial reaction that people have when they're struggling early in sesshin, and we are still early in sesshin, really just wading through intrusive thoughts. And when you catch one, it can be, oh, there it goes again. I'm hopeless. People, people think this way. People do this. We all do it to one degree or another. It's just that that Aw, shit. You know, here I go again.

John Pulleyn

09:00

Sheng yen says it simply tires you out. If you take up a belligerent attitude towards your own mind, really, it can be very helpful to have some sympathy for yourself, to give the kid a break. Yes, when thought comes, you need to return to the practice, but that's all that you need to do. Doesn't need to be a commentary, doesn't need to be a ritual chastisement. We're all works in progress. Question is, do we want to progress or not? You notice it's come back. We do this again and again and again. So much easier to do it when we're not making ourselves miserable by beating ourselves up. You.

John Pulleyn

10:00

It's actually fortunate that we've noticed, as Bodhin Roshi is fond of saying, until you notice you're helpless, you're on a train of thought that leads God knows where can go on for quite a while.

John Pulleyn

10:22

He has a metaphor, which I love. It's like you're driving down a four lane highway, just zooming right along, no problem at all. And then somehow, without thinking or with thinking, you find yourself on an exit ramp. Well, just get back on. Come to the end of that ramp, there's the ramp back on and off you go. Other times you find that you've gotten off the ramp, wandered down some side road, Country Road, found your way into a little town and worked your way down. Now you're in a trailer by the river, but when you notice, boom, you can come right back. You don't have to wind your way back through the town and find the entrance and get back on. You just come back. You

John Pulleyn

11:34

again. He says, it simply tires you out if you take up a belligerent attitude towards your own mind. We really want to be kind to ourselves, care for ourselves, and understand whatever we do, all the screw ups that we do are simply the result of our conditioning. How things have been up to now, we can make things better by what we do. Now, the conditioning that we develop as we practice sincerely, and how quickly that has an effect isn't really up to us. I mean, certainly we can be diligent, but it takes time. Need to Be patient. If you're overbearing and critical, it's going to take longer and it's going to be more painful. You're more likely to get fed up and quit. Tension doesn't help anger, frustration don't help you.

John Pulleyn

13:05

So Japanese Zen teacher says, Enjoy your practice. Why not? You I

John Pulleyn

13:32

think people get a taste of this first when they're working on a breath practice can be so pleasant. Breath coming in and out like the tide. Learn to relax the body.

John Pulleyn

14:02

Some of us are pretty tense. Come into practice, and there's tensions that you've been building up for decades. They don't go away immediately just because you've decided to practice. You can't decide to relax and make yourself do it. You can gradually, gradually let go. If you're serious about it, if you keep at it, and if you're patient, you

John Pulleyn

14:52

something wonderful about the zazen posture. It's a dignity. There you look at the altar and you see the Buddha and. Hmm, stable, poised with equanimity and awareness. Those are our birthright. That's who we truly are despite all our flaws, all the damage done,

John Pulleyn

15:35

Sheng yen says, simply the fact when you recognize the fact of wandering the mind clears recognition itself can do the trick, especially as we have been practicing for a while, we find ourselves able to drop thoughts more quickly, and same is true as seshin goes along. We may have a bad patch, get lost, find ourselves in the trailer, but we come back. Sheng yen goes on. Sometimes the wandering of the mind is due to fatigue or lack of energy. There may be a physiological cause for it. Maybe you do not actually feel drowsy, but nevertheless, the energy for concentration is lacking. The art of it is to recognize, again and again the state of the mind. If it's wandering, simply bring it back into focus. No drama, nothing special. Just bring it back by doing this again and again. Eventually, the body energy will be renewed, and you will have fewer periods and wandering thoughts. There is a daily cycle of energy within some periods, you'll will you'll have less than at other times, this is natural. There's no need for a fight. Simply be attentively aware at all times. Right now, it's like this not a problem. He says, we can make use of an analogy here. Meditation is like using a fan, the old fashioned hand type, handheld type, you have the task of catching a feather on the fan. Every time you move the fan, the feather is likely to be blown away. It's a delicate business. You have to hold the fan quite still just under the space through which the feather is sinking of its own motion. The Feather then comes to rest on the top of the fan. You can imagine how difficult or how easy this may be, any use of force and the feather is lost. Yet once you grasp the principle, it is something very easy to do. Stilling the mind is like catching a feather with a fan. It needs patience and persistence. When practicing, do not be afraid of a distracting thought. If your body has a problem, do not be concerned with it. If your mind is worrying, put the worry down. Keep the mind on the method, waiting for the feather to sink onto the fan. Supposing you're in a very good situation, no distractions, no wandering thoughts. Whatever you do, don't congratulate yourself. Away goes the feather at once. So don't be happy. Do not think how successful you are. Just observe the situation without movement toward or away. If the mind moves, wandering thoughts begin so fundamental for the mind to be still. In practice,

John Pulleyn

19:17

the mind is still. We can see awareness comes to the fore.

John Pulleyn

19:36

Can be tremendous determination and will, but if you're grabbing pushing away, you're going to be kicking up thoughts.

John Pulleyn

19:55

In stillness, it blossoms you.

John Pulleyn

20:09

And then he says, another analogy, some feathers come from chickens, some from ducks. Now the duck's feather is waterproof. A duck floats happily in water, no trouble. Chicken is a different case altogether. Imagine the state of the feathers of a chicken trying to swim when we have never seen a chicken swim. When we train the mind begins with feathers like those of a chicken. It's easily, easily disturbed by anything. But in time, we find a state where equanimity appears and we're not bothered by any passing thought. At that time, we have duck feathers. Of course, chickens cannot change into ducks, but through practice, the mind can become impermeable to the showers of past passing thoughts.

John Pulleyn

21:08

Now he continues with the next stanza of Wang Ming verse the poem calming the mind to protect the branches. Excuse me, protect the branches to save the roots. Though a small matter, it is not trivial. Close the seven orifices, shut off the six senses. Here the branches are the minor vexations, while the roots are the major ones. That may last a lifetime if one is not careful with the minor vexations, they may develop into major ones. For instance, you may not be about to rob or kill anyone. Yet, if the mind is filled by little hatreds or avarice, although you do not act upon these promptings, one day, they may propel you to commit a crime. It's important to protect the mind from such a possibility. Not only do we have to be aware of how our minds function when meditating, we need to be mindful in everyday life. When meditating, you may put aside evil thoughts, but as you go about in the world, they may often assail you. You

John Pulleyn

22:25

There are many examples of lives full of mistakes of this kind. Some people go into the mountains and practice, maybe for years. Of course, Sheng yen himself spent six years isolated in in the mountains, there in Taiwan. So he may be speaking from personal experience. Some people go into the mountains and practice, maybe for years, they come to feel that they have gone beyond all greed and hatred. The mind is calm. So how could such negativities arise? They may even feel they have attained liberation, so they come down from the mountains and start interacting in the world quite quickly. They may get irritated by others, or form some emotional attachments, which they find they cannot handle. Greed and hatred appear, and they're forced to recognize that they still have major vexations. And he says this result occurs because even though the people were hidden in the mountains and not experiencing any major trouble, still the minor illusions, the stuff of wandering thoughts, have not been put down. You.

John Pulleyn

23:43

We can often find ourselves after sesshin in a very peaceful, open state, but then we go off, and there's no way we can continue to do 10 hours of zazen a day. Well, there is a way, I suppose, just lock yourself in your room and do it, but not many people do. And so that state will change. We're not going to be able to keep the calm that we have when we're doing extended sitting. That's why it's so important to have a daily practice. It's a lifetime project that many of us have undertaken. Many more will and

John Pulleyn

24:47

but I don't know if there's a finish line. There's a saying in Japan somewhere the Buddha is still working on himself.

John Pulleyn

25:06

Is one way of looking at practice, where it's something we're going to do and get it done, and then everything is going to be smooth and easy. And then there is just doing the practice for its own sake, coming to love the practice, unifying the mind, opening up, opening up, entering completely into the present moment, letting things flow. There's no end to that practice. Gradually over time, many sesshin we get better.

John Pulleyn

25:58

Sheng yen says you can see how important it is to cut off even minor wandering thoughts. One who works hard with a method may not be able to cut off all illusory thoughts for all times, but at least he or she can get to the stage of cutting them off for a few seconds, minutes or hours, even a few days. It is important to recognize that your mind can be free from illusion. When such a person is faced with difficulty in daily life, it becomes easier to recognize the nature of that difficulty, even as the vexation arises, the practitioner is aware of it, and that prevents a negative manifestation. But if one fails to practice after returning from the mountains, even though awareness may be present, a manifestation will usually occur. This is why many of us look forward to spending time in retreat or to practicing in the mountains in

John Pulleyn

27:16

me one of the classic examples of recognizing a vexation is when you realize that you're getting angry. Can't tell you how many people are angry before they know it. And yet, everything has been cooking along in the body. Everything we do has been cooking along in the body before we do it. Just simple science. You can't jump off a diving where you make a decision to jump off a diving board and you had motor neurons engaged before you made that decision, quote, unquote, made that decision. It's mind numbing to realize how much we're in the control of processes that are going on underneath our conscious awareness, but we can see things happening much, much more quickly if we're aware and with anger, of course, you begin to feel a little hot under the collar, maybe your heart beats a little harder. And then you have a chance. You have an opportunity. And if you've been practicing for a while, you may find you can cut it off right there, just let it go.

John Pulleyn

28:46

I tell the story about the first time I really noticed that entering into an argument with my wife, and suddenly I noticed, Oh, I'm getting angry. And I remembered I had been in AA for a while, and I knew when we're wrong. We promptly admitted it, one of the guidelines in AA. And I thought about that, and I thought, Well, no, damn it, she's wrong, and I couldn't, I couldn't do it. I just, you know, we had our little fight and but the next time it happened, I could, as I recall, have to ask her to be sure. But it's we. We do. We get better, it's really awareness and non grasping, incredibly powerful. There's nothing like sincere practice to develop those qualities. You.

John Pulleyn

30:13

And Sheng yen goes on closing the seven orifices, two eyes, two ears, two nostrils, in the mouth, and shutting off the six senses, seeing, hearing, smelling, taste, touch and cognition is the discipline of withdrawal from the attachments we have to worldly things. It's the discipline of developing the freedom not to indulge, the ability to let it go. It's a superpower. He says, such discipline and retreat enables us to perceive how the mind of illusion functions and provides a space in which clarity develops. Wang Ming's poem may be causing some of us a problem. Simon the cook, was puzzled when I praised the cooking at lunchtime. Simon was worried that his good cooking might be distracting me from meditation. I told him he need not stop cooking delicious food, a dish that tastes good, well, it just tastes good. The message is simply this, don't get attached to it after you've finished, let it go. You never know next time you might be disappointed. And the whole rigmarole of pleasure and disappointment gets going, then your meditation is indeed disturbed. When Wang Ming tells us to close the orifices and shut down the six senses, he does not mean that we should become senseless zombies, not seeing, hearing or feeling, what he cautions us against is perpetually wondering what kind of food we will have. Anticipation and disappointment create attachment and greed. It's sobering to realize how much anticipating we do, worried that this is going to be painful, or that's not going to work out, or I'm going to make an ass of myself. Here, it creates a general, general tenor of tenor of worry that runs through our life.

John Pulleyn

32:41

How much better to develop the habit of mind. Were you just interested in what comes next? When it comes we can deal with it. Why worry about it now? Once is enough. You

John Pulleyn

33:08

then he tells a little story. Once upon a time, when I was a young monk near Shanghai, I was with a group of boys who were so poor that we hardly ever had enough food. One day, an old monk of better means provided with us with some additional dishes. Among them was a plate of bean curd. This was such a rare treat that one boy set aside a small slice so that he could relish it. Later on, he nibbled a tiny bit every day for three days he managed to stretch it out. But then one of our teachers saw what was happening. He slapped the boy and threw away his bean curd. The teacher told him, with this kind of attitude, you will end up as a hungry ghost, never having enough to eat.

John Pulleyn

33:59

The discipline for young monks when Sheng Yen was practicing in in China, mainland China, pretty, pretty rough, looking at it from this country in this time, but you can see the point just that habit, not being able to let go. Remember reading another story about a Master who was hungry with many other monks. They were they were practicing on their own and begging for food, and there was none to be had. And then they got some monk came and gave them some sort of a gold coin, and they were able to buy a whole bunch of food. And what he did was to go and give it all away to all the other monks who were who. Are hungry, such a different attitude, and it's, you know, it's hard to do, let go of our need for security, our unwillingness to let go of whatever is pleasant, comfortable and it's hard because we think it's hard. It's like jumping into cold water. You can sit at the edge of the pool and think about it and think about it, but really all you need to do is launch yourself into the air. Boom. There's the shock of the cold water. And then turns out you're fine.

John Pulleyn

35:59

He says, perhaps you see a beautiful flower in the hedgerow. You like it, you pick it, you bring it home, then it fades and dies. Maybe you forgot the water. Every day we hear the buying of the sheep and the bleating of the Lambs. When the animals are in the yard, there is indeed a great noise, like waves breaking on the shore. If you are truly practicing, you witness the sound and nothing more, you will not be thinking, Oh, how cute the little lambkins are. What a sad sheep that must one must be. Perhaps it has lost its lamb. Sheep are in the yard. That's all. When engaged in practice, you need not be concerned with them. I

John Pulleyn

37:06

there's a there's a real difference between getting bogged down, chasing after the things we like, trying to hold on to them, and then shutting everything off and becoming emotionless. And as he says, zombie like what we're looking for is the joy of just moving along with things. It's different from pleasure. Joy is different from pleasure. Joy is responsiveness, alertness, awareness. Joy is actually who we are. If we could just scrape off the dust. We get a taste of it sometimes, all of a sudden, even the hard things are they're good just moving along.

John Pulleyn

38:15

We're now in the third day of sesshin. Think the first two days are the hardest, just settling in gradually, gradually, sesshin begins to pick up some momentum, and we can find ourselves moving along. Can find some energy welling up. Find ourselves relatively free of thoughts from time to time.

John Pulleyn

38:53

All we need to do is just give ourselves to this process. Don't hold back.

John Pulleyn

39:07

Stay here. Stay in this moment. Don't look back. Don't look ahead. If you're just here, moment by moment, before you know it, sesshin is ending It's all how we use the mind. And the beauty of sesshin is that we train the mind. We learn how to live freely and openly. We don't have to think of various good qualities and try to imitate them and create them. Just need to do our practice.

John Pulleyn

39:49

Have the generosity to give ourselves to the koan, to the breath, to just sitting and.

John Pulleyn

40:19

Just sitting, not thinking. Bodhidharma said, not thinking about anything is Zen. Once you know this, walking, sitting or lying down, everything you do is Zen. Time is up. We'll stop now and recite the four vows, i.

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