first question, talk to me about your work with educating employees on implicit bias and weight based discrimination. What is the main message you hope to get across? What are people's typical responses starting out versus when they finish the training? So in case you don't know, something I do, aside from talking to myself on a podcast is I go into companies I don't go in, it's all virtual, I'll pretend to go in and talk about anti fat bias. I love it. I also talk to, you know, organizations or groups of people or, you know, like, say a group of dieticians, or whatever. And so this is my response, the responses are generally positive, some people struggle to come to terms with the idea that the weight centric health paradigm is deeply flawed, whereas others realize how much bias they hold, and are excited at creating more positive experiences and interactions with fat folks. People are asking for this training more and more as organizations now better understand that anti fat bias is a huge problem. And something that has not been addressed before in meaningful ways, and actually been encouraged. Imagine this is me talking? Well, it was me talking before but imagine you're, you know, the average company, where everyone is, you know, around the corner being like, Oh, my God, have you tried this diet? Lala, I guess I fat or whatever. And then you have a trainer that comes in that talks about anti fat bias. A lot of the people are going to be like, what, what are they talking about, of course, diets work. And that's going to be difficult for people. Like remember when you were in diet culture. And if someone came to you and said, Hey, by the way, there's no way to make yourself smaller. You'd be like, fuck off. Galloway, don't be silly. Of course, there is glossaries. I mean, I've tried 50 times in my life, and I've managed to make myself temporary, temporarily thinner all of those times. So don't be silly. And then the idea that you can be fat and just live your life that is very, very difficult. Whereas, you know, a few years ago, I felt like people were more kind of like, fuck you. Whereas now people are more like, make sense to the people who were kind of on the fence and more like, Okay, makes sense, because I feel like we're being exposed to the message more and more that diets don't work. It's not as wildly radical it is still is wildly radical, but as as you know, like five years ago, which is great. And so now, we're seeing a lot of people being like, well, this is fucked up. We should stop doing this, which is awesome. So my main message with trading is basically it depends. Everyone's training is different, like some people want to focus on this about, you know, different things. But my message is, there's 100 years worth of data showing us that there is no reliable way to lose weight long term. You cannot tell a person's health status from their body size. Even if fat people could lose weight and I All of them are unhealthy, they still deserve access rights and belonging. So that's the thing is, is I will say that, you know, listen, I know, some people cannot absolutely 100% Doesn't matter, but what the evidence say they can't get behind the idea that it's not possible to lose weight, and that fat people can be healthy. And so that's, that's wrong, say it's fine. It's not fine, but, you know, whatever they can't get by on that, but but the, even if fat people could easily lose weight, and they're choosing not to because they're like, you know, some evil person who's like, Ah, I'm gonna drain the world of resources in order to be fatter need everyone and raw, you know, even if fat people were like that. By the way, for happy we don't have some master plan to drain the resources of the world. Even if we were like that fat people still deserve belonging, access rights, etc, right? Because when people anti fat bias stems from anti black racism, ableism and health ism or so. Protestant Reformation make your workplace welcoming for fat people because a huge population of the workforce is fat, alone your own fat phobia, because we all have it. And finally, anti fat bias is say 9097 Let's do better. Sir. 1997 It's so old school. It's so I just I'm just like, it's are we still talking about this? Like, are we still are people still talking about this? And I know like, I felt like I might be a little bit out of out of touch with the realities of, of the day to day world because I live in my own bubble of fat positivity. And I don't have co workers who, you know, because it's just me and Dougal Duggal doesn't talk about going on diets. He just says can I want? How can I have a cuddle? Give me some treats, whatever. He never talks about diets. I love him for that. So, you know, I feel like it's really just, I mean, it is old school. But of course, it's still so many people talking about it, because it's simple, but pervasive. So okay, so the next question from the journalist, what led you to do a deep dive into the Olympic study, and I said, people are asking me about it. And I love digging into the details behind flashy headlines. I also saw a lot of influencers talking about it. And I worried that people consuming that content would feel pressurized by anti fat buyers, and social media and doctors to take something without understanding the risks or outcomes. So something that I saw I thought that was really alarming is fat influences who many people presumed was fat were fat positive, taking as Empik or weak, Ovie further weight loss. And that was, to me, people felt like it was a breach of trust. For me, I mentioned this before, unless someone that explicitly states they are fat, positive, fat, liberation, you know? How for every size even then, you know, you don't know, unless they explicitly say, I think that people deserve equal access rights, etc. I know that diets don't work the Lella then you don't know that reverse and is really what they think even if they are fat. And so we can't be surprised, then if someone then starts saying, Hey, let's go on a diet or whatever. Unless they explicitly say that they are fat positive. Unfortunately, and and I think that's really difficult for people if we're following someone, and we think we presume we know them and know what they are thinking. And then they do something, which is the opposite of what we presume that they are thinking it can be very distressing. And that we see that a lot when fat celebs lose weight. It's very difficult. And again, people can do what they want, right that people use their bodies. But there's that sadness, and also being like more they're doing it maybe she lie. So anyway. Okay, so then, her name was Hannah, the interviewer Hannah asks, I have some specific study questions in your Instagram post on the drug. You mentioned that it was ineffective because participants gained weight back after stopping as Empik. I asked a few doctors who work with patients with Oh word about this. And their response was that this evidence helps support the notion that oh word is a complex and chronic disease similar to any other chronic chronic disease like high blood pressure, or cancer, patients who stopped taking blood pressure medication also find that their BP climbs back up. Okay, so that's that sentence, that paragraph, you would potentially hear that and be like, Yeah, that makes sense. Okay, well, these o word doctors, they're looking out for me. They're not blaming me. They're saying there's something wrong with fatness as a disease mechanism happening. And it's not that I'm great, greedy, and lazy and an awful person. So I can understand how someone could read that and be an absolutely be like, okay, because it's not like, Hey, Fatty, you're a piece of shit. That would be like, Oh, fuck you. This is offering a sense of kindness, almost right. And it comes from a doctor. Oh, my goodness. So they must know about what is the disease? So it's beginning to make sense. But how would you hold them horses? So in my response, this evidence shows exactly what we know about weight loss in interventions for the last 100 years. manipulating your body size does not work long term. Even if you keep taking we go V for weight loss, the weight begins to come back on at week 60, which is exactly what the weego V study showed. So notice how