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Historic District Commission (missed first three hours)
Speaker 1
Thank you. And thank you for joining us this evening as Paul please class your contractor to observe what the COA for the front porches and entry doors and we look forward to coming back with respect to the work that was done without approval. Thank you for joining us. Next application not subject to public hearing is 511 What work at financial district historic district
Speaker 2
through 
the chair chairperson Franklin, this came to the Commission's attention late and the staff report just posted right here, the commission or some members of the Commission may remember this building, which is of course right here on their doorstep. Came in front of the condition 29. Before the pandemic, it is a non contributing structure to the Detroit financial district, Detroit historic financial district very oddly named Historic District, non contributing structure and so the Commission approved a complete rescanning of the building with this sort of front and I think we've all sort of see that take shape. At the time the Commission approved a quote unquote activation of the the space the cafe space in front of one of the future restaurant tenants. So over over basically the the midwinter period was referred to us in late January. We got plans via the permitting process that does in fact show an activation. But there are some permanent features including banquettes and in a bar that staff believe was beyond the the original scope of the Commission's approval and beyond staffs authority under our minor changes authority to approve. So we we have now prepared a staff report 
the the addition of the cafe and the permanent facilities, we believe is is contextual with the building which again is non-contributing and with a greater district and we do recommend it.
+2
the chair chairperson Franklin, this came to the Commission's attention late and the staff report just posted right here, the commission or some members of the Commission may remember this building, which is of course right here on their doorstep. Came in front of the condition 29. Before the pandemic, it is a non contributing structure to the Detroit financial district, Detroit historic financial district very oddly named Historic District, non contributing structure and so the Commission approved a complete rescanning of the building with this sort of front and I think we've all sort of see that take shape. At the time the Commission approved a quote unquote activation of the the space the cafe space in front of one of the future restaurant tenants. So over over basically the the midwinter period was referred to us in late January. We got plans via the permitting process that does in fact show an activation. But there are some permanent features including banquettes and in a bar that staff believe was beyond the the original scope of the Commission's approval and beyond staffs authority under our minor changes authority to approve. So we we have now prepared a staff report +1
the the addition of the cafe and the permanent facilities, we believe is is contextual with the building which again is non-contributing and with a greater district and we do recommend it. Speaker 1
Thank you for that amendment and bringing that to our attention, the applicant for Friday lab and what we're present. Thank you for joining us if you can place your name and spell into the record. Thank you Good evening.
Speaker 3
For the record. My name is Dave Elia za i v e l. I appreciate everyone's time this evening to discuss the patio at 511 Woodward as Mr. Landsberg is clearly spoken when you came in 2019 and we've done a ton of work here. Finally the restaurant is taking shape. And now we're in the position to activate the patio. Through the decks and the slides that we presented. Feel that we've developed a very natural looking patio that's going to activate the space and bring some traffic down to that area. More than happy to answer any questions. Shut up and I'm here to answer them. Thank you.
Speaker 1
Thank you to my colleagues I certainly do remember this application from 2019.
Speaker 4
In elevation of the bar from the Street View, I see it from when you're on the patio, the face of it, but is the railing going behind the bar and as I'm walking down the street and I see the back of the bar.
Speaker 3
So 
the current railing is existing and that's going to stay currently if we can go to a photo please of the current plantings. So if you see the plantings along the wall on the outside, those are all going to be replaced with plantations that's actually going to go all the way down the patio and it's gonna actually block the back of the booths and block the back of the bar. It's gonna give it a nice textural feel and create that sense of ambiance and natural scenery around the patio.
+1
the current railing is existing and that's going to stay currently if we can go to a photo please of the current plantings. So if you see the plantings along the wall on the outside, those are all going to be replaced with plantations that's actually going to go all the way down the patio and it's gonna actually block the back of the booths and block the back of the bar. It's gonna give it a nice textural feel and create that sense of ambiance and natural scenery around the patio. Speaker 3
The planters itself will be at a minimum, the height of the bar are four or
Unknown Speaker
four feet
Unknown Speaker
as you can see in the drawings they extend past it
Speaker 5
just a question just had a stab. So so I'm assuming that the permanent items that you were thought was outside of staff purview was the bar, etc.
Speaker 2
Yesterday, the bar and the seating? Yeah, that'd be permanent. That staff does not have to regulate authority for that
Speaker 4
question in the rendering that is on the screen right now
Unknown Speaker
is which is the accurate flooring
Speaker 3
that's actually not black. The windows just tinted the pictures tended to give a nice effect on the rendering. So it's actually a grayish and why.
Unknown Speaker
But it is that pattern that
Speaker 1
any topic of discussion or questions to the applicant?
Speaker 5
I'm happy to make the motion of the questions. I moved there having duly reviewed the complete proposed application as well scope of application 23 Dash 8284 511 And what we're having duly consider the appropriateness there are pursuant to chapter 21 Article Two of the 2019 Detroit city code and MCL 399 That 205 of the local historic district Act, the Commission determines repose application will be appropriate according to the standards of review set forth in the state and local legislation and therefore each certificate of appropriateness for the proposed work.
Speaker 1
All right, thank you. We have a motion by Commissioner Hardin. County supported by Commissioner Mackenzie any further discussion? Roll call?
Speaker 2
Yes, ma'am. On the approval motion commissioners, chinchilla. Hi, Franklin. Hi, Hamilton five Vardaman LLC. Hi. Motion passes five zero.
Speaker 3
Thank you just want to say one quick comment on that I've heard about the process and how long it takes and all of these things. I want to say one thing, quite frankly, Mr. Lambert and his team responded immediately to calls emails. You went beyond what his scope of work is to make sure that we were taken care of and this was on tonight's agenda. And I know these processes are very long. I've been doing this for 20 years. Like most of everyone's sitting out there and they're tired they are. But it's things like this that make this city great. And I can honestly tell you what him and his team has done for this project and how they responded. There's been nothing short of awesome. So I just want to say thank you. Appreciate you. Thank you. Thank you
Speaker 1
that was a wonderful, very accurate characterization of Hamilton or landmark and his wonderful team. Their staff is wonderful. So thank you they deserve that compliment. On to the next application not subject to public hearing is 2475 Chicago. Applicant present. Please step up. And kindly place your name to the record and spell it for us. Thank you.
Speaker 6
Martin Lee, so it's like paper ledger without the D L E. G are
Speaker 1
welcome. Okay. So you are before us regarding the windows.
Speaker 6
Yes. 
So to make a long story short, when I bought that building, it was in total distress. It was almost ready to be demolished. And the interior has been pretty much rebuilt. What was the main problem? There was the back of the roof. It was wide open to the snow to the rain. To the elements. And then it was touching as well the corner of the roof facing the driveway. So the wood was completely rotten and it was removed. So if you look at my application, the windows I'm applying to today are the windows on that face of the building mostly the rear of the building and slightly in the corner facing the driveway because it was an area as I said that was exposed to the elements and moreover there was insects, termites, and most of the wood had to be removed in many areas because it was infested by termites. So it's like a new construction within an old frame. So some people in the area sometimes do some cosmetic works and show it as a nice property but mine as add lots of work that you don't necessarily see when you visit the 
house like lectricity Plumbing structure. So these windows were really affected by mold by termites. And when it's cold in the winter, I need to close the doors of these rooms because I could warm most of the other areas of the house, but when it's too cold, I need to close the doors of the rooms in the back of the house because it these windows are letting too much cold air come in. So I try to insulate it on top of that I put some it's not very fashionable. I put some insulation on top of it. I put some Polytune or sheeting I taped it and I and I paid it and everything but still when it's very cold I need to close the doors and nobody could sleep in these rooms in the condition that it is even if the walls have been redone. Many floors have been redone, but because of the condition of these windows, it can be done. Moreover, the functioning of these windows doesn't work properly. The first window on the first floor is completely missing when it's boarded on to other windows are you seeing if the window gun so 
I don't want to even if I see that many people in the neighborhood have brand new windows on their house I would say maybe one house or five in the Boston edition district. I'm not planning to change them all like on the first side. I would probably wish to keep them all except maybe on the third floor attic. But so these are the most visible windows the facade and the side. So I'm talking mostly about the back of the house and the little bit in the corner by the driveway. So that's that's all what I'm asking for. I would be ready to work on the other windows right to fix them as much as I can. But these ones are really in bad condition. And it's affecting the quality of life of the occupant of this house. So at some point, you know some rooms can't be occupied. So that's why I'm focusing on these ones at first and then in another demand. I was proposing the nail and they said no it's not adequate. So I came back today with a better quality of Windows. The gel Goodwin wooden with clouded aluminum. And so this is a good quality of windows and I'm re redoing these little squares that are shown on the original ones and I'm using double hang like it was so I'm trying to make it look like the original but at least it would give a quality of life while living in this house.
+5
So to make a long story short, when I bought that building, it was in total distress. It was almost ready to be demolished. And the interior has been pretty much rebuilt. What was the main problem? There was the back of the roof. It was wide open to the snow to the rain. To the elements. And then it was touching as well the corner of the roof facing the driveway. So the wood was completely rotten and it was removed. So if you look at my application, the windows I'm applying to today are the windows on that face of the building mostly the rear of the building and slightly in the corner facing the driveway because it was an area as I said that was exposed to the elements and moreover there was insects, termites, and most of the wood had to be removed in many areas because it was infested by termites. So it's like a new construction within an old frame. So some people in the area sometimes do some cosmetic works and show it as a nice property but mine as add lots of work that you don't necessarily see when you visit the 
+5
house like lectricity Plumbing structure. So these windows were really affected by mold by termites. And when it's cold in the winter, I need to close the doors of these rooms because I could warm most of the other areas of the house, but when it's too cold, I need to close the doors of the rooms in the back of the house because it these windows are letting too much cold air come in. So I try to insulate it on top of that I put some it's not very fashionable. I put some insulation on top of it. I put some Polytune or sheeting I taped it and I and I paid it and everything but still when it's very cold I need to close the doors and nobody could sleep in these rooms in the condition that it is even if the walls have been redone. Many floors have been redone, but because of the condition of these windows, it can be done. Moreover, the functioning of these windows doesn't work properly. The first window on the first floor is completely missing when it's boarded on to other windows are you seeing if the window gun so 
+5
I don't want to even if I see that many people in the neighborhood have brand new windows on their house I would say maybe one house or five in the Boston edition district. I'm not planning to change them all like on the first side. I would probably wish to keep them all except maybe on the third floor attic. But so these are the most visible windows the facade and the side. So I'm talking mostly about the back of the house and the little bit in the corner by the driveway. So that's that's all what I'm asking for. I would be ready to work on the other windows right to fix them as much as I can. But these ones are really in bad condition. And it's affecting the quality of life of the occupant of this house. So at some point, you know some rooms can't be occupied. So that's why I'm focusing on these ones at first and then in another demand. I was proposing the nail and they said no it's not adequate. So I came back today with a better quality of Windows. The gel Goodwin wooden with clouded aluminum. And so this is a good quality of windows and I'm re redoing these little squares that are shown on the original ones and I'm using double hang like it was so I'm trying to make it look like the original but at least it would give a quality of life while living in this house. 
Speaker 1
I have a question. Have you hired a qualified or licensed architect or window restoration company to look at and evaluate your windows? Give us a confession.
Speaker 6
I'm 
a contractor myself. I got three hats. I'm from Montreal, Canada. I got three ads three degrees. I'm a lawyer with a master's degree at law with my bar school from Quebec. I'm a general contractor in all types of buildings. And I'm also a commercial real estate agent. I left all my good diplomas there. And I came here to play the small real estate developer. So
+1
a contractor myself. I got three hats. I'm from Montreal, Canada. I got three ads three degrees. I'm a lawyer with a master's degree at law with my bar school from Quebec. I'm a general contractor in all types of buildings. And I'm also a commercial real estate agent. I left all my good diplomas there. And I came here to play the small real estate developer. So Speaker 1
back to my question. Have you hired someone who was licensed to evaluate the condition of your windows that you wish to replace?
Speaker 6
That's for the Windows as well but you know you don't need to be Einstein.
Speaker 1
Is it a no I'm just it's just a simple questions.
Speaker 6
I want to I want to answer your questions but it just that. You just if you look at some pictures, some some parts are completely rotten. They're missing
Speaker 1
and I can appreciate all of that. So I'm gonna move forward and open it up to discussion for my fellow colleagues
Unknown Speaker
but follow up on that you know, as I look at the photos that you've submitted,
Speaker 7
don't 
walk through a bit from the point of view of could they be fixed? Yes. Can I you know, for the most part, it looks like they could be fixed. And that's a question that I think the commissioner is getting at is have you got somebody who actually has expertise and experience in repairing windows. Take a look at these and see to what extent they get paid. They can be repaired when in waterways, they can't be repaired. I mean, rotten wood as you've said yourself, it's just something you take out replace and many parts of windows can be what wood windows can be disassembled and any rotten parts can be replaced or repaired with document and all that kind of stuff. I think that you know just just eyeball these windows is not really sufficient evidence for me. That that they're not that they're beyond repair.
+3
walk through a bit from the point of view of could they be fixed? Yes. Can I you know, for the most part, it looks like they could be fixed. And that's a question that I think the commissioner is getting at is have you got somebody who actually has expertise and experience in repairing windows. Take a look at these and see to what extent they get paid. They can be repaired when in waterways, they can't be repaired. I mean, rotten wood as you've said yourself, it's just something you take out replace and many parts of windows can be what wood windows can be disassembled and any rotten parts can be replaced or repaired with document and all that kind of stuff. I think that you know just just eyeball these windows is not really sufficient evidence for me. That that they're not that they're beyond repair. 
Speaker 6
Oh, 
anyway, you know, they've invented new windows because technology has evolved for the last 100 years and these windows have been installed 100 years in the cheapest possible way. You got four pieces of wood that make a window. Then you get the tub section four pieces of wood and then they put a cheap thin piece of glass in the middle and it's cold and areas passing through all over. I'm ready to live in on most of the three other walls of the house with this condition. But this house was infested by termites and what has been affected everywhere, especially on that section of the wall. So you could imagine that these windows have been affected as well. And if you imagine that maybe I don't know how many years, maybe 10 years, the roof was wide open right on top of these windows. So you could imagine that the world is not in top notch condition. So you're gonna need to be the best expert in the world and moreover, you could bring a kid a five year old kid in st stay in this room when it's cold in the winter, and you won't stay there and he's not an architect. So you will realize that it's very cool.
+2
anyway, you know, they've invented new windows because technology has evolved for the last 100 years and these windows have been installed 100 years in the cheapest possible way. You got four pieces of wood that make a window. Then you get the tub section four pieces of wood and then they put a cheap thin piece of glass in the middle and it's cold and areas passing through all over. I'm ready to live in on most of the three other walls of the house with this condition. But this house was infested by termites and what has been affected everywhere, especially on that section of the wall. So you could imagine that these windows have been affected as well. And if you imagine that maybe I don't know how many years, maybe 10 years, the roof was wide open right on top of these windows. So you could imagine that the world is not in top notch condition. So you're gonna need to be the best expert in the world and moreover, you could bring a kid a five year old kid in st stay in this room when it's cold in the winter, and you won't stay there and he's not an architect. So you will realize that it's very cool. Speaker 7
Okay, 
so so the thing is that the wood windows like these can be winterized. I don't know if they have strong windows on them. But uh when Sarek window with a good storm window on it and good. If airs coming in around the window, it means it's not sealed. And so there are ways to seal these windows so that there's not air permeating and then if you put the storm on the bottom you got you know, big, big dead airspace and so you don't get Ambien COVID seminar. This is fine. This is what experience experts window repair people know how to do.
+1
so so the thing is that the wood windows like these can be winterized. I don't know if they have strong windows on them. But uh when Sarek window with a good storm window on it and good. If airs coming in around the window, it means it's not sealed. And so there are ways to seal these windows so that there's not air permeating and then if you put the storm on the bottom you got you know, big, big dead airspace and so you don't get Ambien COVID seminar. This is fine. This is what experience experts window repair people know how to do. Speaker 6
I 
put some foam I put some pink insulation on top of it because it was too cold. I put some plastic sheeting on top of it. I taped it all okay, and it's still cold. So it's, it's, it's I understand your point of view, okay. If I didn't like historical houses and architecture and all of that, I'm like, French Canadian. So we love architecture and everything perfect when it's an element of efficiency. You know, it's not like, oh, it's it's a nice porch. It's a nice setting. It's a good nice looking house fine. But when you're talking about Windows, I mean, sometimes it's it's gone. You want to fix it up. What you're going to be asking me to do would be to rebuild the little sections of the windows, as it was built. 100 years because each one is ready to be put in the garbage. So I'm kind of facing an excessive demand from your site if you want my own point of view, because up to a point you need to accept the fact that these windows are dead. Okay. You could take in 80 years old man and try to bring him back to life but you will never be 10 years old again. For
+5
put some foam I put some pink insulation on top of it because it was too cold. I put some plastic sheeting on top of it. I taped it all okay, and it's still cold. So it's, it's, it's I understand your point of view, okay. If I didn't like historical houses and architecture and all of that, I'm like, French Canadian. So we love architecture and everything perfect when it's an element of efficiency. You know, it's not like, oh, it's it's a nice porch. It's a nice setting. It's a good nice looking house fine. But when you're talking about Windows, I mean, sometimes it's it's gone. You want to fix it up. What you're going to be asking me to do would be to rebuild the little sections of the windows, as it was built. 100 years because each one is ready to be put in the garbage. So I'm kind of facing an excessive demand from your site if you want my own point of view, because up to a point you need to accept the fact that these windows are dead. Okay. You could take in 80 years old man and try to bring him back to life but you will never be 10 years old again. For 
Speaker 1
excuse me, interrupt here we are need to focus on the Windows rather than repairable condition and that is our focus here on the application and emotions or any other questions regarding this application.
Speaker 8
I don't have any other questions. I guess what I would just say is these windows like perfectly repairable to me and we haven't seen a cost estimate from a bonafide restoration contractor. So I would you know make a motion. I would like to make a motion okay.
Speaker 6
The thing I'm facing in the position that is not normal because other people okay, maybe 20% of the the owners of Boston Edison district have brand new windows not only in the back everywhere, and they got approval for your nice you find you're gonna get it, but me No, it's refused. Sometimes I just have I feel I get the feeling that I just have to show my face
Unknown Speaker
that isn't accurate.
Speaker 1
We are very fair body that we use the standards of Secretary of standard to your standards and guidelines focus we are not a biased board at all. And we are focusing on the merits of this application and what you brought for as far as the evaluation of the condition of these models are long. And so I am not going to allow that poor representation to
Speaker 6
this what I think to what I think what I to represent
Speaker 1
this body so from there, we're going to move forward with a motion and I will kindly ask you to do not interrupt, please. Thank you. Yeah,
Speaker 6
but I'm gonna make an inquiry about what's happening in this area. And why is it that most of the others get both brand new windows? Well, I don't know. Not.
Unknown Speaker
Not most not even close to most.
Speaker 4
i You shouldn't be go to the National Park Service website because there are publications that they've produced that talk about Windows and the preservation of Windows as a significant character for historic structures, and including there's a sustainability publication that talks about how you can address sustainability issues and the replacement of windows for weatherization with the storm windows that was mentioned already, as well as the importance of keeping those windows so there is documentation at a national level and is not as an attack on you personally, that we are enforcing these things consistently across the board.
Speaker 7
You know, and I'm I'm prepared to I'm prepared to accept that they're rotten and we're prepared to throw away but I we got to see a professional some guy that prepares these things all the time to tell us that that's true. I mean, I looked at the way it was you
Speaker 1
were getting back to America for years before we I mean that is that we have given the applicant some information on a national level and on a local level. This is not a personal attack at all. So as we have as I stated before, that we are moving forward with a motion at this time, thank you Commissioner chinchilla for offering the national standards with respect to how we can restore Windows and make them weatherproof so that your house is comfortable and again we are basing on what we are saying on the Secretary of Interior standards and local historic guidelines when it comes to Windows and at this time I am what's happening
Speaker 6
with the window that doesn't exist. What's happening with the window the first window
Speaker 1
Excuse me, sir, I have asked you politely to please do not interrupt while we're doing this motion. I have
Speaker 6
a question and I get the window is inexistent. Are you going to do with this one? No. It's very same. You're
Speaker 2
welcome to submit a new application or anytime at this point. This is a public commission, your time for speaking for the chair as concluded.
Speaker 6
So first window on the first one. Sorry, it doesn't exist there.
Speaker 2
You're welcome to submit a new application in this application continuing to wrap the proceedings of this public commission. We'll have to call it have you escorted out the bill. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker
Thank you. Entertain a motion at this time.
Speaker 8
I move that having duly reviewed the complete proposed scope of application number 23 Dash 8244 or 2475, Chicago Bulevar. And having duly considered the appropriateness thereof pursuant to chapter 21 Article Two of the 2019 Detroit city code and MCL 399205 of the local historic district Act, the Commission determines that the proposed application will not be appropriate according to the standards of review set forth in the state and local legislation, and therefore he has a denial for the proposed work. The Commission's reason for the denial is that one the existing wood windows are not curated beyond repair. To the wood sash retains a level of materiality and dimensionality that offers significant architectural detail to the structure. Installing the proposed replacement windows would alter features that characterize the property. Therefore, this second, this work fails to meet the Secretary of Interior standards, specifically standards numbers, two, five and six are the record please,
Speaker 1
Commissioner McCarthy read out conditions to the standards to five and six for the record, please Ah yes, thank you.
Speaker 8
The historic character the property shall be retained and preserved the removal of historic materials or alteration of features and spaces that characterize property shall be avoided. Five distinctive features finishes and construction techniques or examples of craftsmanship that characterize a stir property shall be preserved. And number six, deteriorated historic features shall be repaired rather than replaced where the severity of deterioration requires replacement of a distinctive feature. The new feature shall match the old and design color, texture and other visual qualities and were possible materials replacement of missing features so be substantiated by documentary physical or pictorial evidence.
Speaker 1
Thank you. I appreciate that. It's still supported by Commissioner Hamilton.
Unknown Speaker
Denial commissioners chinchilla
Unknown Speaker
by Franklin. Hi. Hi,
Unknown Speaker
Bill. See aye. That motion passes five to zero.
Speaker 1
Thank you. Moving on to application 1411 and 1425. Chicago application number 238423. Is the applicant present and audience are virtually Madam Chairperson,
Speaker 4
I don't see the applicant as being present virtually.
Speaker 1
Okay. Is there any recent communication or indication that he or she will be present? Anybody knows the staff reporter?
Speaker 9
Madam Chair, I'm the staff person for this project. And I did communicate with the applicant today. They said they might have an issue making it but I also said if you know, I should point out the option of withdrawing the application and they've chosen not to do that either. So they're not here.
Unknown Speaker
Not Present. Okay. Commissioners.
Speaker 4
I'm comfortable taking the staff discussion. Now am I am I really reviewed and completed proposed scope for application 23 8423411 and 1425 Chicago and haven't really considered their appropriateness, their pursuit of chapter 21 Article Two of the 2019 Detroit city code and the MCL 399 dot 205 in the local historic district Act, the Commission determines the proposed applicant will be appropriate according to the standards of reuse set forth in the state and local legislation and therefore issues a certificate of appropriateness for the proposed work. The certificate of appropriateness is issued with the following conditions The fence shall be a page of color as deemed appropriate by staff. The fence height shall be a standardized to six feet along its entire length. That's it. For Hamilton,
Speaker 1
okay, thank you. We have a motion by Commissioner to chill escapes me supported by Commissioner Hamilton any discussion? Roll call please. Bring him on the
Speaker 2
approval with conditions commissioners chinchilla. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. All right. Thank you
Speaker 1
The next application that subject to public hearing is 267 East Grand River application two three dash eight shoe for one applicant present. Please step up sir. approached the microphones you can ask for your name and spell it into the record. Thank you.
Speaker 9
Hello everyone. My name is Matthew card spelled ma t t h e w a r r and I'm the venue manager for Lighthouse immersive.
Speaker 1
Welcome. Thank you Brad. All right. So what So you to your, your application and response to the staff report?
Unknown Speaker
It all looks accurate to me.
Unknown Speaker
Okay. Questions from my fellow peers here
Speaker 4
your leisure, I just wanna say thank you for your patience in the proceedings and staying where your
Speaker 9
scores my first meeting, and it was very informative. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1
We tried to keep it that way. Or
Speaker 9
was someone that used to live right in this area now works downtown, a lot of these buildings. I walked my dog past on a regular basis for the last five years. So it's so exciting to see some of the exciting things that are happening. Yeah, yes. Great, right. Here in
Unknown Speaker
the midst of it. All right.
Unknown Speaker
I'm okay with this.
Unknown Speaker
I'll do this.
Unknown Speaker
Thank you. So,
Speaker 5
I moved to having duly reviewed the complete report scope of application 20 382 Dash 82414267 East Grand River, and have been duly consider the appropriateness thereof. or so into chapter 21 Article Two of the 2019 Detroit city code and MCL 399 205 of the local historic districts districts Act. The Commission determines the proposed application will be appropriate according to the standards of review set forth in the state and local legislation, and therefore he has a certificate of appropriateness for the proposed work. Their certificate of appropriateness is issued with the following condition. The owner shall remove all proposed vinyl signage from the building's fenestration once the current tenant might house immersive no longer host events within the building. clear transparent glazing infinite administration is typical at primary elevations within the historic district as to six seven Eastern rivers east facade as a primary elevation any effort which might permit introduce a PCT to Windows and or storefront at this location. is not recommended.
Speaker 1
But thank you. We have a motion by Commissioner Haarlem is supported by Commissioner chinchilla any further discussion? May we have roll call?
Speaker 2
I'm on the approval. Commissioners chilla. Aye.
Unknown Speaker
Aye. All right.
Speaker 2
We'll see. Hi, motion passes five zero. All right.
Speaker 1
So congratulations. And within one week's time you should be receiving your certificate of to Edison in the Boston Edison Historic District application to three dash eight to four zeros, the applicant present virtually I see that our audience here has depleted itself. So I guess we are just now virtual is Ross. Yes, Madam Chairperson.
Unknown Speaker
They are here virtually.
Speaker 1
Welcome and thank you for hanging in with us to the end here and share you Fred's staff report at this time if you are willing to unmute yourself. Talk about this work. It's my understanding that work was completed without approval.
Speaker 10
That is correct. So my name is go Hua JBA. I'm the homeowner and this is my first home and I bought this home I closed on this home on January 20. And immediately went to the house, got the keys and went through the mail and saw in the letter in the mail, a notice from you all, which was a complete surprise to me it was not disclosed during the sale process. So I immediately reached out to my good friend and Melanie for advice and retained Kristen loosen for some legal advice since they are both very knowledgeable about this process more than I am and been trying to resolve this ever since. And I want to work with this commission to to have a path forward and I certainly bought the house because of the historic nature of Boston Edison of the city and and just want to work with you all to to get this result but from there I would just defer to Melanie on anything else.
Unknown Speaker
All right, Miss Melanie.
Unknown Speaker
Yes. Can you hear me? Absolutely. Okay, great.
Speaker 9
Thank 
you so much. Thank you, commission and staff for helping us out with this item. As African said, we're looking for a path forward. You know, this work was completed without his knowledge and certainly not close during the real estate process. I went inspected the home myself, the front, the back and all sides of the building. It appears that some of the inappropriate work was completed in several years past in different phases. Some of that work has been removed, thankfully, particularly on the front porch, side columns. That is now brick. What remains is Yes, thank you. That's great. That's the right upgraded current appearance. You can see on the sides of the porch roof you do have this kind of wood paneling detail. It is unclear what is underneath that wood panel detail if the original fabric remains or what is in place really. You also have this slate tile that has been applied to the front porch, floor and stairs and then also in the rear of the building if we can bring that up. Thank you so much. rear of the building a new porch has been erected sometime between 2017 and 2019. Also, some some doors and a window was enclosed at that time as well. The porch footprint seems to be where previous porch was an enclosed porch and appears you can kind of see the ghosting on the back of the building there. And if you look the Sanborn map from 1971, it actually has the porch on the other side of the rear facade, which is kind of strange that it's in that location given that the fenestration indicates that would be on the other side. So I don't know who knows maybe it was an error when the Sanborn's were being completed. It's not unknown to happen. So the applicant is certainly looking forward to working with this commission and happy to answer any questions that the Commission may have at this time.
+1
you so much. Thank you, commission and staff for helping us out with this item. As African said, we're looking for a path forward. You know, this work was completed without his knowledge and certainly not close during the real estate process. I went inspected the home myself, the front, the back and all sides of the building. It appears that some of the inappropriate work was completed in several years past in different phases. Some of that work has been removed, thankfully, particularly on the front porch, side columns. That is now brick. What remains is Yes, thank you. That's great. That's the right upgraded current appearance. You can see on the sides of the porch roof you do have this kind of wood paneling detail. It is unclear what is underneath that wood panel detail if the original fabric remains or what is in place really. You also have this slate tile that has been applied to the front porch, floor and stairs and then also in the rear of the building if we can bring that up. Thank you so much. rear of the building a new porch has been erected sometime between 2017 and 2019. Also, some some doors and a window was enclosed at that time as well. The porch footprint seems to be where previous porch was an enclosed porch and appears you can kind of see the ghosting on the back of the building there. And if you look the Sanborn map from 1971, it actually has the porch on the other side of the rear facade, which is kind of strange that it's in that location given that the fenestration indicates that would be on the other side. So I don't know who knows maybe it was an error when the Sanborn's were being completed. It's not unknown to happen. So the applicant is certainly looking forward to working with this commission and happy to answer any questions that the Commission may have at this time. Speaker 1
Wow, we move in and get a notice for my son. Okay. Sure.
Speaker 7
I 
want to speak to this property. Sure. This property has a long and checkered history. There are many alterations that were done to this house that were not approved. If you look at page three you can see the you had the front that one okay you can see the the wall was done so the brick columns on the sides were taken down. Probably the wing walls on the roof were taken down last block was installed. You can see that on the towards the back of the house and all the rest of the windows were vinyl. And so this was you know, more or less a disaster. And you know, this was brought to the Commission for approval of all that stuff. And of course we denied at all and then it sat for a long time with I think nothing happening. And then at some point and I don't know who did who got a hold of that has brought it to the condition in which it is now and you know the brick columns on the corners have been reconstructed. The vinyl windows has been replaced. The PLAs block has been replaced. And this is 
a dramatic improvement over the condition of the house was in when it first appeared before the hdc. The To me this is to me this is a sufficient recovery from the from the incredibly poor work that was done on this house. And so I'm very, very supportive of what's there. On the back of the house there was originally up I don't think the back of the house is an issue. There was a rack, ramshackle porch back there that I happen to be in when you know what's been done back there is a tremendous improvement. Something has to be done with that boarded up window. But otherwise, this isn't a dramatic recovery of this house and well, it's not exactly a replication of what was there before. I think it's such a dramatic recovery that it deserves our support.
+2
want to speak to this property. Sure. This property has a long and checkered history. There are many alterations that were done to this house that were not approved. If you look at page three you can see the you had the front that one okay you can see the the wall was done so the brick columns on the sides were taken down. Probably the wing walls on the roof were taken down last block was installed. You can see that on the towards the back of the house and all the rest of the windows were vinyl. And so this was you know, more or less a disaster. And you know, this was brought to the Commission for approval of all that stuff. And of course we denied at all and then it sat for a long time with I think nothing happening. And then at some point and I don't know who did who got a hold of that has brought it to the condition in which it is now and you know the brick columns on the corners have been reconstructed. The vinyl windows has been replaced. The PLAs block has been replaced. And this is +1
a dramatic improvement over the condition of the house was in when it first appeared before the hdc. The To me this is to me this is a sufficient recovery from the from the incredibly poor work that was done on this house. And so I'm very, very supportive of what's there. On the back of the house there was originally up I don't think the back of the house is an issue. There was a rack, ramshackle porch back there that I happen to be in when you know what's been done back there is a tremendous improvement. Something has to be done with that boarded up window. But otherwise, this isn't a dramatic recovery of this house and well, it's not exactly a replication of what was there before. I think it's such a dramatic recovery that it deserves our support. Speaker 1
Or 
the discussion. Commission, just one, just one data point and I don't know if you if it was kind of picked up on the staff report, but staff did recommend that if the commission does see fit to approve the current kind of wood brackets, that that they be painted kind of like one solid color, then like the kind of cream color so that it just kind of recedes into the background.
+2
the discussion. Commission, just one, just one data point and I don't know if you if it was kind of picked up on the staff report, but staff did recommend that if the commission does see fit to approve the current kind of wood brackets, that that they be painted kind of like one solid color, then like the kind of cream color so that it just kind of recedes into the background. Speaker 8
Yeah, 
I'm supportive of you. I would support that. I mean, I think the idea of trying to force them to go back with with brick is is not realistic. Just from a material sourcing perspective. You're never going to get it to match anyway, not to mention the cost implications of, of burdening a new homeowner with with something like that.
+1
I'm supportive of you. I would support that. I mean, I think the idea of trying to force them to go back with with brick is is not realistic. Just from a material sourcing perspective. You're never going to get it to match anyway, not to mention the cost implications of, of burdening a new homeowner with with something like that. Speaker 7
Yes, that that was on there probably a designation? Yes, sir. It was.
Unknown Speaker
It was there at the time of designation
Unknown Speaker
certainly was on there at the time when they first
Unknown Speaker
talked on material on the 50s. So
Unknown Speaker
first, it's been on there as long as I know, okay.
Speaker 4
Or the discussion or emotion. Just say that you do the work because you don't know what's underneath that would do some research on it before you do get the next round of iteration.
Speaker 7
Anything that would stop? I don't think so. Because you know that whole those columns those corner columns are completely torn down. As you can see, the previous one I replaced I'm I'm I'm stunned at how well they've been rebuilt to match the other. The other column
Speaker 8
my guess is that that kind of parapet condition was deteriorated because of water infiltration, which is probably why they took it down in the first place.
Unknown Speaker
All right, motion and that didn't use scope for application. Be 8240165 As I
Speaker 7
told you just have skipped down everything you've said so good so far.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, like to
Speaker 7
just do just do motion it's just that.
Speaker 4
Meaning work items will be appropriate for use at court and therefore it gives a work instruction for color appropriateness is issued with the following conditions
Unknown Speaker
which is in keeping compatible would require that shall be paid to be compatible with a bonus trip.
Unknown Speaker
finding it very difficult to hear you. Oh, sorry.
Unknown Speaker
One also one comment discussion
Speaker 7
motion says remaining work that it's actually the entire proposal
Unknown Speaker
should be all work.
Speaker 5
They all work in it but then to that in writing. We also want to add the condition that the existing wood brackets will be painted that a one standard one solid color.
Speaker 1
Can Mr. chinchilla Can you please modify your motion to include those patterns
Unknown Speaker
if you agree? Me existing the word truth remain
Speaker 7
after proven published depending on the color of the consistent car, I was approved by staff. There you go. Any further discussion?
Speaker 1
Are you sufficient with the permit? You're okay with it? Yes, ma'am. Okay, thank you. Thank you. We have a motion by Commissioner chinchilla supported by Commissioner Hamilton May we get we'll call
Unknown Speaker
this man on the approval with conditions commissioners chinchilla. Aye. All right. Let's see. All right, awesome class despite zero
Speaker 1
into the homeowner, thank you for reaching out immediately upon receiving that letter. And welcome to Boston Edison Historic District and as a new homeowner to a historic home so you should receive your certificate of appropriateness within a week's time the association over there is very hands on. A lot of great information online if you haven't already seen or refute that. Association's website. And with that, I bid you a good rest of the evening. Thank you for hanging in with us and closing out applications here.
Unknown Speaker
And thank you very much.
Unknown Speaker
You're very welcome.
Unknown Speaker
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1
You're welcome. Here are no city projects. At this time. No old business. And for my understanding the new business is the elections of a vice chair. I have all that correct.
Unknown Speaker
And so I'm
Speaker 1
opening that up for years
Speaker 7
before people leave old business. Did you give us a bit of a summary of what the Subcommittee on DTE said to make these guys back on.
Speaker 1
Okay, I didn't bring my mouse with me. So I'm asked Kelty who was present parliament who was present. And Commissioner, how about do you have to have that now? No. Okay, because I don't want to be shooting from the hip. But there is some resolution that I've asked. I requested a bunch of things and so one of the things I know Dan is I don't think I'm getting the dedication hotline. I will just say that there is a couple of pending items that I have asked to be included. And I know that director Landsberg will be working on that or Dan so there was a robust discussion. And so I believe that most of the items if not all, other than the hotline will be added to that resolution it will become before this commission, I believe the next hearing. I don't believe there needs to be a special hearing for that resolution. But there was a lot of great discussions that result from it, but I'm looking forward to that resolution being amended. Okay. New businesses for elections for Vice Chair
Speaker 2
for the chair. Chairperson Franklin. I think the process is to elect the chair first and then the Vice Chair.
Speaker 7
Yes. So in that regard, I would like to nominate Commissioner Franklin to be chair of the commission for one term. Or another your support.
Speaker 1
Oh, thank you. I accept that and thank you for your trust in my leadership.
Unknown Speaker
We nominated you and vote on that now.
Speaker 2
Are there additional nominations for chair Oak Harbor and the nomination for Commissioner Tiffany Franklin this chairperson, commissioners chinchilla high, ranking high bid to vote. Item LC bye. Motion passes by zero gratulations. Chairperson
Speaker 1
Okay. Thank you. I guess I can say I accept it and I thought I have to say that I don't want it. Okay. following your lead director, Hans Berg,
Speaker 2
and at this time, we can entertain nominations for vice chair.
Unknown Speaker
I would like to nominate Commission Commissioner McGill. See please.
Unknown Speaker
Welcome
Speaker 2
Hearing no additional nominations on the nomination for vice chair person. Commissioner Alan McGill. See? Commissioners chilla
Unknown Speaker
Aye.
Speaker 2
Aye Hi, cardamom. And guilty. I regulations. VICE CHAIRPERSON
Speaker 1
Thank you. And at this time, entertain a motion to adjourn.
Unknown Speaker
Motion to adjourn.
Speaker 1
Thanks. I'm good. I like to say that that's your way out. So welcome again. Yeah, I'm glad you got through it and break through it. It's
Unknown Speaker
it was harder than I thought it would be.
Unknown Speaker
Know I urge you to not be the only architect