Okay, yes, this is really important to me. Because when I first started doing this work, and I was a recent college grad, and I was going to places like Washington DC for the first time, I'm leaving these meetings like, why am I not closing gifts? Why am I not? Why am I getting back on the plane feeling so defeated right now. And my husband and I laugh about this, because I'd go back to the office, you know, we worked together at the time and I'd say, Oh, I met with all these people. I feel like, you know, I didn't get all of the gifts I wanted to close. And he was like, if you talked to them, as much as you are talking to me, they probably did not get the chance to actually say the things you might want to learn. And he's not getting any more guilty, this podcast. But yeah, it's not like he was right, I guess. So I think that my ability to be successful changed when I realized that I should be doing very little speaking, relative to you know, how much chatter is going to happen in this conversation. So I started to ask things that might feel very obvious, but I'm going to share them like, Hey, can I have my first meeting? your office or your home? So that when I walk in, I can say this is a beautiful office? How long have you guys been here? Oh, believe it or not, we just moved here. Last year, we had a huge event happened in our company where we had to acquire like 200 more employees. We needed a bigger space. No kidding. What was that event? Well, we went public, your oh my gosh, congratulations. How did that process go? It's like that's an example. You know, going to someone's home. These pictures on the wall are so beautiful. Where are you all on this photo? We're in Aspen we go there every year. Oh no way. Do you ever have I was there we do, we kind of split our time between San Francisco, Aspen Palm Beach, you know, your check marks on capacity are going off. So I know these are kind of simple, but even walking into someone else's territory first and just observing and kind of trying to understand what sort of physical environment they're in, and why tells you so much about the person and the family, maybe what they care about, or maybe their resources relative to their capacity to give. So that's a good start. But also, I think that as nonprofit professionals, we tend to read a ton I know I do about nonprofit news, like I'm on the Chronicle of Philanthropy every morning, I'm constantly checking in with all of my other kind of philanthropy friends on their news. But what we also need to read is The Wall Street Journal, the New York Times, whatever your you know, your news of preference is so that you feel equipped to speak about the world and businesses. I was so scared of this when I was younger, I never wanted to ask a lawyer in some ginormous firm right in New York City, like anything about business that would open the conversation up to me looking like I don't know a lot. I'm not very informed or I can't talk about business. So I'll I'll be vulnerable and saying that I didn't know a lot. I'm from upstate New York, I have a French degree. I started fundraising and major crypto is my first job ever. So I've had to learn. You know, I asked my CPA questions about the world I ask friends in different industries are people like you know, Nancy Brinker? That's someone we're both friends with? I asked her questions about health care. And I'm not afraid anymore to look like I don't know things. I don't know them. But the more that I learn about business in the world, I feel like I can ask those questions. When I'm qualifying someone, I can ask what they think of something that's going on, or I can ask them about their business being third generation family or just recently having gone public because I Googled those things I equipped myself. So I think that's kind of my part to to qualifying is like, ask someone about their business and understand the financial, you know, and familial word, the world that they sit in. And then my last kind of recommendation there is to ask questions about their philanthropy. And if you're only going to remember to, because I am throwing a lot of things out there, it would be to ask them, where they are involved or where their spouse is involved in why they are that might look like volunteering, giving sitting on a board understand their why. And ask them if they've ever given a gift before that felt like a really notable experience. And if they can describe it, and I was specific to not say really wonderful or really bad, because it leaves it open for the person to say, I have to admit, I was hesitant to have you come the last time I gave to you know, my spouse's alma mater, we'd never heard about how you know, where they spent our money. We never heard from the gift officer again, or we've just finished paying a pledge to the campaign and our children's school. It was wonderful. There were so many events, so many updates. So just those two questions kind of unpack so much about the person you're sitting across from.