Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an Impact Uprising.
So welcome to the good community, where Nonprofit Professionals, philanthropist, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
So let's get started. Becky Endicott what's happening?
You can see how big my grin is today. We are straight, honored to host Dena Williams today on the podcast. I want to thank our really good friends Jeff Hare and Sarah Adolphson over at the Artemis Agency for connecting us to Dena who's a certified dei professional and consultant. She is working for more than 20 years as a staunch advocate for more diversity, equity inclusion in all aspects of our lives. And throughout her career, Dena has created and led employee resource groups for corporations and nonprofits. She's created this solid foundation for employee growth, retention engagement. And she did it because she believes that building respectful communities that promote equity and equality for all people, is the bedrock of how we can all soar and feel seen and valued. And we're going to get this story, Dena, because I read this in your bio, I want to know all the background on it. But your advocacy work began when you were 16 years old, for underserved and underrepresented communities as a volunteer for a black and brown LGBTQ youth HIV outreach program in the inner cities of Connecticut. That sounds like a story right there. And she's also worked with the trans chorus of Los Angeles, where she was the first black CEO and board chair that has got a story. Your heart is so wide. We are honored to have you in our community come teach us how to love and just build communities that honor every single person that is in it. Hi, Dena.
Hi, Becky. Hi, Jon, thanks so much for having me. I, what do I say to an introduction like that?
You just say, I'm amazing. And I've done so much. And I'm going to continue to just bring more love into this space. That's what you say.
Thanks so much. The only thing you didn't mention is that, you know, you know, I, I did all those wonderful things. And now I'm an independent consultant. Working at my own DEI agency that I created four years ago,
I'm so proud of you look at you just like taking the leap into the entrepreneurial space. And I we love the way your business is set up. We love how you tell your story. But I want to I want you to take us back like early we want to learn about little Dena like tell us about life growing up and how that live kind of informed this path that's led you to where you are today.
Yeah, so you mentioned when I was 16 was when I did my first HIV outreach work. And that was my community service assignment in high school. When I did that, and I decided to do it with a friend of mine who I met at a local LGBTQ Center, and shout out to him, he's probably gonna watch his podcast.
What's his name? Drop that name.
Louis Irizarry.
Hi, Louis.
And we're still friends to this day. And, you know, the assignment was was just that, you know, HIV outreach, and it was handing out primarily handing out condoms and pamphlets about STDs, and I'm dating myself with that one, because the term is about STIs today.
Thank you. Gen X forever.
They keep changing stuff up. But that experience led me to work with a ton of trans people who I met, that were living on the streets, doing sex work for survival. And that was my first kind of entry into like the, or naming and identifying the social determinants of health right, like, these people didn't have access to you know, I heard stories of them knowing a friend of a friend of a friend to gave them hormone injections, and realizing Wow, they don't have like, my experience was I needed something I call the doctor and I went to the doctor's office to get it if they didn't have that access, that they needed to get condoms or to get the the hormone therapy that they needed to live their authentic lives. And that really began my passion there for working with the transgender community and working to create safe spaces of community for sharing and for belonging. And in 2015 I I became one of the founding members of the Trans Chorus of Los Angeles. We were the first trans identify, thank you for those flowers. The first, all trans identified the chorus in the nation led by a trans artistic director, you know, that was an amazing experience, because we were being the first, we were able to have a lot of firsts in the organization, like we were the first trans organization to perform at Dodger Stadium, we were the first trans organization to perform at Walt Disney Concert Hall. You know, we performed on the Grammy stage behind Demi Lovato, it was truly an amazing, amazing experience.
I'm so proud of you.
Thank you. And it created, you know, an environment where trans people can can learn how to just be in community with each other and embrace themselves and embrace their, their authentic natural voices, and it exposed people who we perform for, to. You know, we had doctors in our chorus, we had lawyers in our chorus, we had, you know, all professions in our chorus, and, and people got to see that trans people, just like everybody else, you know, the only thing not even the trans-ness made them interesting, what made them interesting, were those other things, you know, like they were just normal people. Just everyday people.
The humaneness is so amazing, I want to thank you for just speaking in that way, it was such a loving way, my uncle is a part of the Atlanta Gay Men's Chorus. So I want to just give a shout out to just allowing people to live who they are out loud their truth, their life, that we're here for that space.
You know, the people listening to this podcast, we're all heart bound to creating community and creating inclusive communities around our missions and how we show up in the world. And so your experiences, I mean, have puts you on the frontlines of that to, to figure out really, how do you build spaces of belonging? And how do you really build respectful community too because I know it couldn't have all been easy a path in creating that space? So what kind of lessons could you lift for us from that journey for everybody listening to that wants to build community of belonging in whatever area that they're pouring into?
Yeah, I'll tell you a quick story about the first rehearsal of the trans chorus. And, you know, it's a funny and a sad story all at the same time. And we all went to go sing our first number, and the artistic director got up there. And she, you know, was listening to all our voices, and trying to arrange us in, you know, the Altos, The Sopranos, the basses. And all the trans women of the group, ran over to the soprano section, because that's where they wanted it to be. Trans women usually have to go through vocal training or have surgeries to have a higher pitch tone. So all the trans women ran over to the soprano section. And they're like, I'm a soprano over here, not one of them was a soprano. And the artistic director, you know, pulled everyone aside and had a heart to heart conversation. And she said, here in this room, we acknowledge that as being trans, especially as a trans women. If anything, the voice will always betray you, betray how you appear in the world, how you show up in the world, whether it's a drive thru, whether it's over the phone. No matter what the trans woman looks like, they're usually going to get sired or mistered, based on their voice. And she said, what I want everyone in this room to do is accept the voice that you have, embrace the voice that you have and love the voice that you have. If you're a bass, get over there and sing down in that bass octave, with all your heart, if you're an alto, get over there and sing it, sing it out and sing it proud. And, you know, everyone got it, everyone got the message, and everyone learned how to embrace their voice in this room. And that's one of the best ways to promote, you know, that safe, respectful community where everyone is seen and heard for who there are. So the moral of the story, I guess, is, is creating that psychologically safe space for everyone to be themselves.
Thank you so much for sharing that I just, I just think these stories matter. These lived experiences, understanding I can tell you immediately that my compassion for the trans community just grew and expanded in that story. Thank you for sharing so vulnerably and we, we talk about and this is like the hottest topic right now and nonprofit is how do you build authentic community and what you just said right there is allowing people to come as they are, bringing the gifts that they bring in whatever form that is, and acknowledging that, and not even just acknowledging it, but valuing that that is actually a benefit to your organization, we're celebrating the fact that we are all different. And I mean, we have this phrase at our house, I've used it many times on the podcast, different is great. I've been saying that to my daughter, since they were two, it's like, if you can embrace that different can be great. I want to like put that in the in the soul of all our nonprofits, because we're trying to get people to think differently, to try new things, we got to innovate. And it really starts with that community and having this trusted community, and I just want to know, from your opinion, and your viewpoint, have, you know, like witnessed, nonprofit falling short, like in this area, what are what would be like some simple steps that we could take to build collective spaces of belonging, I'd love to hear your input on this.
You know, in the nonprofit sector, and having done it for for the period of time that I did it, the one thing I learned was that, you know, especially if you're a nonprofit, working with other nonprofits, who serve the same community, who have kind of, you know, parallel missions, the organizations that fund those nonprofits, everyone's fighting for that same pot of money, you know, so the nonprofits, oftentimes, you know, they can, they can get over themselves, they can, they can fight over themselves, they can go get, give me the money over here, I'm better than the one over here, it's all about working together, coming together. And acknowledging that we're all fighting the same fight, the cause is the same for all of the cause, you know, it's the same for all of us. And what we've got to do is work together and find ways to get there together. The Gay Men's Chorus of Los Angeles, was instrumental in founding the Trans Chorus of Los Angeles. We didn't fight over the same, even though we had a lot of the same vendors that were giving us money to stay afloat, we acknowledge that the battle was in whole for the LGBTQ+ community. And we worked together to make that mission happen.
I mean, yes, all of this. And I think we lifted community is core as a trend. And I think, as you really dissect what that means for your organization, this sets us up to be able to have these kind of robust partnerships. If you're creating belonging, if you're seeing people for who they are, if you're seeing the identity of these different organizations, the way that we can lock arms together, that's the Impact Uprising that we described. So I love those examples so much. We want to like, you know, really tap your brain because not only are you consulting now, but you've had this incredible lived experience. So as we think about building cultures of belonging, really, we have to counteract this unconscious bias that happens. Can we talk about the difference between equity and equality? How can we start to level the playing field for all and what does that really mean, as we, as we kind of dig in?
Equity and equality being that one's you know, if I'm not in my dei workshop class brain, I'd be throwing up my image that we probably all have seen with the family of a baseball team, you know, they're all standing on the boxes. But to put it in words, you know, equity means or the book definition, equity means for everyone, at the same exact way that regardless of the differences, you know, we're all being provided with the same tools we need to succeed. And equality means recognizing that people in certain circumstances may need a little bit more help in getting there based on those social determinants of health or socio economic status, or whatever the case is. I like to use schools also as an example of this. And everyone needs to go to school. So you have a poor neighborhood, the kids go to school in that neighborhood, you have a wealthy neighborhood, kids go to that school in that neighborhood, Because they all, everybody goes to school. But when you look at the statistics of the graduates from the wealthy school's neighborhood, you notice something you notice the graduation rate is higher. You notice the kids from that school go to better colleges, you notice that there's better teachers in those schools even. And, yeah, they're both going to school, but it's not equal. The poor kids are at a disadvantage because the good teachers don't go to teach in those areas. The opportunities aren't there based on the socio socio economic status of their, their, their family, their households, and they're at a disadvantage. So what can we do to level that playing field? Well, there's organizations like, you know, Teach For America that send teachers to areas that don't normally get teachers of certain credential. was to create more equity for that school system. And you know, those are those are tiny little things that you know, you can do if you notice, you know, if you live in an area where there's schools that are underserved, invest in Teach for America, invest in organizations, that the Boys and Girls Club that creates safe spaces for kids in underserved neighborhoods. So they can have resources to continue their, their after school programs or their learning journey.
There's just this through line and everything that you talk about a just abundance of love. I want to I like, want to create pause, and just thank you for that, because I think these are very tenuous conversations. And as like a cisgender, white woman in Oklahoma, I, like recognize so much of my privilege, and like many of you who are probably listening, I mean, you watch something like the pandemic go down what happened with George Floyd, and you just start to I mean, I am like a consumer of so much information right now I am trying to learn how I can be a better advocate for others. And I think we're so afraid of like not using the right words, or that we're gonna cause harm, or we're gonna offend. And I just think this approach of love and kindness, our We Are For Books community, just read a book, radical candor, that's talking about the kindest thing that you can do is go up and be very kind and honest with someone. And I just think you model that and I just think the humanity that you're bringing, makes this so much more tenable. And, and I want to talk about something that is I feel like uncomfortable for a lot of people, which is this unconscious bias that we have. I mean, I am working myself on unwinding what it is understanding how I embody this, like micro aggressions is a thing. And it's like, we don't want to put harm on anyone. And when you look at it through the lens of organizations, and companies, I mean, there's this massive movement to diversify leadership. But there's this deterrent, you know, which continues to be the scene and often unnoticed realm of unconscious bias, can you help us understand what these biases are and how they're formed? Because I think that's a great starting point for us in this community.
Yeah, and first, I want to acknowledge and leave space for what you just said also, and thank you. They are, I always like to say you have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable conversations as well. So to your question on unconscious bias, I think it's really important to understand that we all have, everyone has some level of unconscious bias. And having that unconscious bias doesn't necessarily make you a bad person. So I want everyone to also like know that.
Grace, thank you.
But there are reasons for us to have unconscious bias. And they actually result in a way that our brain is structured, they represent neural connections actually, within our brain. And scientists have said that we're exposed to as many as like 11 million pieces of information at any given time. But our brains can only process like 40 bits of that information. So that means that like, we can only process point zero or 0.00001% of the information that's coming in. So what does that mean? That means that our brain is evolved to help us figure out things from the instant we see it, like, who we feel safe around, who's valuable, who's right or competent, those are all made up from us made up in our brain, our brain actually figures that out, based on all those, you know, because it can't process all that information, like I just said, so how do you untrain that how do you acknowledge that this is how my brain is reacting to situations within my daily life, within my work life, and I believe what businesses need to do is they need to create processes on top of their processes. So if they notice that a department is filled with someone that looks just like the hiring manager, they need to interrogate that they need to find out they need to hold that hiring manager accountable. How can we make this better? If they notice that they're their human resource? Recruiters are calling in a certain type of candidate you know that's that's a like-me bias that's that's that's an everything kind bias know, there are things called up bias disruptors, people can be bias disruptors, employ those in your organization, try to get a an automatic blind screening process. So where you're wiping out a name on a resume, where you're wiping out a college on a resume, location on a resume, where you're not looking at those things, where were those tiny pieces of unconscious bias that people don't know that they're actually paying attention?
Oh man, are you right.
Can be easily, it's low hanging fruit. When you really think about it, it's like the easiest thing that someone can do, right? It's just just just get rid of it.
Yeah, I mean, we have a lot of leaders listen to this podcast, I appreciate you taking it to such a practical level. But the hiring process is just the beginning entry door door, something that we could all look at right away. So, so good, I want to talk about really building vibrant workplace cultures. I mean, this is a rhythm that we talked about on the podcast, because not only do we want our teams to feel that belonging and feel the excitement, to come to work in a place that they feel that, but we believe it's a magnet to finding believers that are going to connect with your mission when you're really vibing as a team like that. So I know you've done a lot of work around three foundational elements of workplace engagement. You've already alluded to them that psychological safety and psychological meaningfulness and psychological availability. And I'll say, you know, we've talked about psychological safety, it comes out, it's part of, you know, how we define this space all the time, but the other two are new to us, we'd love for you to kind of teach us and talk about the relevance and how we can really recognize and integrate them into our own work. And that's for us at We Are For Good. We're taking notes right now, too.
Yeah, so scholars on organizational behaviors have identified three drivers of employee engagement. And those three drivers are the psychological safety that you just mentioned, which is having the the safety, to engage, to say that you will say what you want in the workplace. Psychological availability is having the capacity to engage. Do I have what it takes to engage fully in my job? It has a lot to do with someone's individual circumstances, in particular, someone's kind of physical energy and physical resources. And then, you know, it's up to a manager to identify that. My employee seems lethargic, my employee seems like they're not engaged in their work today, or are they not available for some reason, and you know, a short talk might identify that, you know, oh, I've got something going on at home, my kid is sick. My grandmother's ill get, you know, whatever the case is, that's what psychological availability is having that capacity to engage. Psychological meaningfulness is is more of is what I feel when I do my work, it's having a reason to engage. This has to do with whether or not people feel they have a reason to engage in their work. It has a lot to do with the characteristics of their job. So DEIA work and advocacy work is is taxing. It's a lot to consume the many things that happen in this world that are unfair to historically marginalized communities. But doing the work means a lot to me. So I have psychological meaningfulness in my work. So turn that around to someone who may be doing a job where they're like, I don't, you know, I feel like I'm turning my wheels, while I'm working on this data entry application. They're not passionate about it, they don't have that meaningfulness without their within their job, it doesn't mean you know, that you should just go ahead and quit that job just means that you should find something that that means something to you can be with even within that job. It doesn't necessarily need to be a different job. Find an aspect of that job that means something to you, if you feel good when you complete that job. You get a pat on that back or something make that be your psychological meaningfulness.
Dena Diane Williams. By the way, I don't know your middle name. That's just the way that I built drama. What you have just said, has rocked me so hard to my core, because you're so right, it has to go beyond safety. Because I think I'm sitting in just the of we're sitting here talking about building these authentic communities, how to make people feel safe and sane. And I think we're looking at it so externally to our missions. And Jon, you say this all the time, I'm gonna quote you, as I always do, like culture and movement starts from within. And if we don't start creating spaces with our own people, like literally starting inside the house, and making sure that everybody has what they need here, to not only feel empowered but cared for safe, that they can shine and live their full greatness and we want that we want that in our mission, we want that in our lives. It enriches absolutely everything. I just think this could be such a huge catalyst for change. And I want to also just create space and say thank you for doing this work and for doing it so humanely because I can imagine it takes an emotional toll, hearing these stories over and over and pouring in your your lived experience. And to me, you are just one of these trailblazers who is going in with so much love and so much hope and so much acceptance. And it truly gives me all those things back like I have so much hope in the world. So I want to thank you just for the way you've held our hand and held our hearts in this. And I hope you listener have just felt empowered and emboldened to go and ask these questions to do further digging on this because I think it invites a greater conversation for humanity in and I'm going to step off my soapbox just a little bit. But I just had to thank you for how vibrant this conversation has been. And we believe that story is one of those great inflection points of connection and it just brings humanity into us. Is there a story of philanthropy that has just stayed with you and your life, something where you just felt changed, and it doesn't have to be a monetary exchange, it can be a human exchange, we would love to hear what you have.
I will talk about my most recent experience, because it left me completely full and changed. I will take it with me for the rest of my life. And that was the Black Queer Creative Summit. The first of its kind, it was hosted by GLAAD and powered by Gilead Sciences, Corporate Social Responsibility.
Love Gilead.
They do a lot of great work. And this, you know, the Sarah Kay Ellis, who's the president of GLAAD spoke at the opening reception. And she said that for her and the executives in the room, they kept asking the director of communities of color who was organizing the event, what was the ROI? And, you know, I come from a corporate background myself. And as I looked over the event, I'm like, well, not really stuff that you could put here and put KPIs on. You know, there's not really those those numbers that you're going to get, but what you got from that event was 149 people who are handpicked to attend this event that received such care and so much valuable resourceful information, to empower them to go back to their lives and create magic and and galvanize them to do something to create change in their whatever ethos they came from, they came from around the world people that attended this, and it was just so fulfilling to be in that space of such it was completely them giving pouring into us, during the entire event. People that usually pour into, you know, usually pour into other people, because a lot of nonprofits were in the room. And a lot of their work was is rooted in giving back. And this event was all about giving to those humans. And it was just it was so fulfilling.
Holy cow I mean, it's the same. Yeah, the same through line that I'm seeing is like when you find like minded, like valued people. And the abundance just flows like how much faster we go to get it how much more enjoyable and the belonging that's found in that space. So thank you for sharing that. You're restoring my hope that conferences can be restorative places, because a lot of them that are not.
Oh my god. True.
You know, as we round out, Deena, we love to just tap your mind and heart of what's a one good thing you would leave with our community today. It could be a piece of advice, a hack, a mantra, something that you say to yourself, what's your one good thing today?
Self care, do it and I mean, do it. Don't just say I'm gonna like go for a walk. Oh, maybe I'll go to the gym or something. But that's not unless that's your jam. That's not self care, like. Self Care, like we are I curate my Instagram feed, but I still get like the constant barrage of what's going on in the world on a daily basis, which is not good half the time because it's not news, unless it's bad news, right? So to consume everything that we do on social media, especially if you're working in in the nonprofit space, or the social philanthropy, impact space, do that self care, take care of yourself, I like to go to the sauna. That's what,
You and me both.
It's wonderful, it's like a sweat. It's a detox like I'm getting, I feel like I'm getting all the stuff out of me, quite literally. Right? And, you know, invest in that set aside, you know, if some funds if you don't have the funds, create something where you're doing self care. I'm trying to emphasize that as much as I can. But that's my one piece of advice. It's really needed in this world.
Okay, a habit, and a culture of self care like that repetition is gonna be healing that is so fantastic. Thank you for that. I cannot get the founder of the Trans Chorus of LA off of this podcast without asking you what is your karaoke song? Because I need to know that before we wrap up.
When Doves Cry, Prince.
Prince, totally, of course. That is, that is a great song, and very hard to sing, actually. So and I want to give it up because my mother has been a 33 year choir, director and she, she has taught me I want to get to your mom, this this episode is dedicated to you. After 490 episodes, I have not dedicated one to my mother.
One in there.
But she is the one that has taught me that people you can see someone's soul when you allow them to sing in the way they want to seeing. And so I feel so much camaraderie in that with you. Keep singing, and I mean that literally and metaphorically, Dena Williams, because I think what you have to say to this world is a balm for the soul. I think it's healing for communities. And honestly, it just feels better when we're all in it together. So tell people how they can connect with you, where do they hang out? Or do you hang out online and give us your website because you have some really cool resources on there.
Yeah, my website is missDenawilliams.com No dot between the miss. Just one word. My name is spelled D E N A. And I am on most platforms as Miss Dena Williams or just plain old Dena Williams, LinkedIn and Instagram.
Amazing. Thank you for being such a great human. Thank you for your vibrancy thanks to Jeff and Artemis for the connection and I just hope community that your heart feels as full and open as mine does today.
Thank you so much for having me, Becky. Jon, it has been wonderful chatting with you both.
So much gratitude.
Rooting for you.
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