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Good morning, good morning. I am Deb courier and I am passionate about giving professionals the tools that they need to make themselves and their businesses as successful as possible. And we're going to talk about something today that I firmly do believe is one of the things that you have to be doing to make your business successful. We're gonna be talking about podcasting. So joining us today is Ryan esters. welcome Ryan, how are you doing today?
I am doing great. Deb. I'm so happy to be here. Thanks for having me.
Perfect. I love it. And you know, I have to I have to say I love the fact that we are talking to you and you are in Denver, you're home. We've been here almost 10 years, but people say where do you live? And where are you from? Right. Where are you from? And I say, well, we live in Atlanta, but we are from Colorado.
Yeah, it never leaves you. You can leave a state the state doesn't leave.
I know. I know. Yeah, we are from Colorado until the day we die. Right? And then of course, we went to the same university. So you know, just so many overlaps here. I love it. Perfect. I love it. Well, I always like to ask my guests how they got to where they are today. Because I think it's very interesting to know how it is that you discovered that at least for right now. This is your passion in life. So tell us a little bit more about it. Oh, you know what? I didn't even I was so excited. It would tell your bio. Let's step back. Let me read your bio, and then we'll jump into that. Perfect. So Ryan, so this is an American Buddhist entrepreneur. As the founder of Kip caster, a podcast booking agency. He facilitates 1000s of extraordinary conversations. Prior to Kitt caster Ryan owned a media and marketing agency for 10 years. For eight of those years. He hosted the founders podcast talk launch, consistently ranked in the iTunes top 100 podcasts. He recorded 300 plus interviews with more than a quarter million downloads. He's married with two kiddos in as I said, Denver, Colorado. He enjoys training Brazilian jujitsu and has a purple belt and half wearer I think I said that right? Yeah.
Ah, see, I knew John.
And he has a green yellow cord and that he also volunteers as a finance mentor, and is an avid sportsman. Seriously, you live in Colorado, you have to be an avid sportsman. So again, Ryan, welcome. Welcome. Now tell us how you got to where you are today. Happy to
do it. And thanks for for doing the introduction, Deb appreciate it. So, you know as as my, my bio implies, you know, I was working in media, I really started my career in music. You know, I you we both went to the University of Colorado at Denver, and I studied music business. That was back when there was a music business to study. So what we have now who even knows everything's free and artists don't get paid. So, you know, when I had two very young children, I switched careers and kind of moved into media and marketing, web development, stuff like that, and was actually the first social media marketing company in Denver. And we did really well. A part of what I really missed about music was the camaraderie of being with the guys. And the gals just like hanging out a band practice drinking some beers talking trash. When I discovered, podcasting is particularly like comedy podcasting, I was like, Oh my gosh, this is just it. This is band practice without the instruments. So as I left my music career, I kind of it kindled my podcast career because it gave me a reason to get back together with my buddies, and just kind of talk trash and, and publish it to the world. And that podcast did really well. But I really was intrigued with the medium itself, particularly for my business, which was growing. And as a means to like, speak to really interesting people and, you know, validate some of my ideas, see where they are struggling, see if I could be of service for them, if they could be of service for me and just to get to know each other. It's really kind of an intense introduction to a person to be speaking to them with headphones and microphones, and it's gonna publish there's a little like electricity in the air. So just kind of fell in love with the medium, you know, and did that for many years. Brandy Whalen, who owned a PR company here in Denver, used to send me her clients. She worked largely with startup founders here in Denver. Denver's got a great tech scene. And so she brought me your clients, and I interviewed them and, and she and I just clicked, you know, and, and we're, we're having coffee one day, and she's like, let's work on a project, we kind of came to the conclusion that we want to do something in podcasting and started throwing around ideas. And this idea for podcast booking agency sounded novel, it sounded like it had opportunities. And I think where we really got excited about it is the way that you would scale a podcast booking agency, which is just like a talent agency is kind of old school. You know, it's like relationship building. It's building a team, handshakes, emails, phone calls. The way you skill is with bodies. And both of us had kind of gone through the ringer of SAS and b2b and lean and mean, type startup stuff. It sounded fun, you know. So September 29. Teen was our official launch. We kind of started with a pilot, I'm sorry, a pilot program, found some success wrapped a brand around it, launched it in September 2019. So we're a little more than two years into it. Now we've got I think, 18 employees and, you know, loving it. It's just been so fun and able to connect with with folks like you, Deb has been amazing. And it's really cool. Well,
I love it, you know, and it's kind of one of those businesses that launched at the right time before the pandemic hit. You know, and because you can obviously do everything you do virtually, as long as I tell people, so long as I have Wi Fi doesn't really matter where I am. But I think it especially from a podcasters perspective. We had guests, potential guests coming out of the woodwork. And and it was because they all of a sudden, were not able to go speak at conferences, they weren't able to do all of those things that they had done before. And they also sat down and thought, what message do I have to give? And so did you really find that things just blossom because of the pandemic for you?
Yeah, absolutely. You know, we all we were super terrified, like everybody else, you know, we're all gonna die kind of thing. But it turns out that like podcasting became something that business leaders could do. You know, everybody went home, you know, for what was it two weeks, and it's
gonna be two weeks, and all of us went, Yeah,
it'd be in six months. But um, you know, for founders, oftentimes, particularly if they're process systems driven, maybe a little maturity. They have a couple of funding rounds. They've got, you know, Director of Marketing, we've got director sales, they've got fulfillment, they've got customer success. Everybody's working, everyone kind of managed to pull it off through zoom calls and at home, but then for founders, like, Well, what do I do? How do I show leadership and podcasting really stepped up right there, you know, podcasting to prior you know, you're still young business, but we'd see probably 20% of shows we're still going to a recording studio or podcast studio, they brought guests in. Were were it was kind of advantageous for everyone to go home as everyone became intimately understanding of zoom.
Right. Wow, all of a sudden, yeah, that's how the world function.
Yeah. And it's like, Well, why would I spend an hour in traffic to record this podcast when we could just zip into here on Zoom and, and we got it. So, you know, serendipitously we were a little bit in the right place at the right time.
Yeah, and, and it really as you said, you we all of a sudden had to get very used to zoom in you. And there was that kind of awkward period of time where you didn't didn't always have the right equipment was really fun to look at somebody unmade bed behind them, you know, some things like that, but then we realized, this is is a great way to function. You know, we don't have to go all these places. For me, it's great, because and, you know, and we'd obviously been been pre recording for years before this started. But, you know, I can talk to people from around the world. And because we can pre record that, that makes it, you know, easy to do. I mean, you know, this week, we're actually getting ready for the holiday break. And so I've got six interviews scheduled this week. So you know, we get all of that done. And technology is just fabulous. To be able to do this.
It's incredible. It really is. I mean, you know, I was a little bit, I don't know, in the beginning, I was kind of like, Oh, that's terrible. But you know, it's really changed through the entire cultural landscape of work in a way now, when I get stuck with windshield time, it drives me crazy. You know, it's like, man, it was just so wonderful to be able to, like, put in a nice, you know, eight, nine hours a day, in your, your home office and, and be done. You know, it. It's great. Now, we also made the decision to hold an HQ here in Denver, because there's also like, something very advantageous about coming together.
Yeah, there's something about that personal connection.
100%, you know, so we got to mix the two. And I think that's kind of the balance we're looking for. I personally think that like working remote, and not kind of like babysitting the time clock. There's something innately human, and there's just a human dignity of giving somebody that respect of like, I manage your time, you know, I'm saying like, you get your work done better
at 11pm fine, as long as you get the work done. And you do the required meetings. I mean, you know, and yeah, but yeah,
yeah, it that really resonated with me, you know, there was something a long time ago studying business, and I've always had tyrannical, terrible bosses, which kind of pushed me and I'm right now, they're just, they're evil, you know. And so it's like, it pushed me to entrepreneurial direction, but also made me a little gun shy about like, wanting to be the boss, you know, but you know, you know, I follow, you know, Gino Whitman's kind of traction model really closely. Because once you start to assign everybody a number, then my job as a leader is to help people achieve their number, as opposed and however they do that, you know, we're outcomes based, so if you, you hit your number, awesome, man, but if you're not like, Hey, how can I help you? It's, there's no, there's no micromanagement or as little as possible. And of course, some folks need extra guidance and assistance at different times, and things always come up because it's live. But, you know, just to bring it back to zoom, I think zooms facilitated this an extraordinary way where we can, we can just pop right in here, you know,
you know, and, yeah, it's gonna be interesting, the next year ish, to see where thing because there's gonna be some more technologies that develop and that the whole thought of concept, the concept of hybrid, I think, you know, I don't know if that's really gonna work an awful lot. You know, it's, I was talking to somebody the other day, and they were in their office, it was funny, they're at CU Boulder. And they were in their office Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and working from home Tuesday, Thursday, and they said, didn't matter where they were, the file they needed was in the other location. You know, and, and so hybrid me, you know, it's going to be interesting, but I think, you know, to bring us back to podcasting, that's one of those things, no matter where you are, if you've got that equipment, you can do a podcast. And in fact, for people who are doing quite a few, it may work better for them to be in their home office, because they might be recording it, you know, nine o'clock at night, depending on which podcast they're on. You know, all sorts of things, as long as your background is, you know, fairly, you know, respectable, you can be doing this at any point in time.
100% Plus, it gives you some fun to go shopping for who doesn't want to buy microphones and headphones.
And cameras, I'm like, oh,
yeah, lighting and like, someday, someday nerd out for so.
I know. You know, and but to be honest, that is something that also scares people, because they're like, Oh, my God, do I have to have all of that? And, you know, I've done just as many podcasts of people who I know are using their iPhone, you know, and as long as the audio is good, I mean, that's that's the important thing. But, you know, it's, I always tell people, it's not. Now if you are having a podcast, there's a lot more expensive to it, because, you know, there's just a variety of things that go into it. But to be a guest really doesn't take a big, you know, cash outlay?
Oh, 100% Yeah, I mean, there's a lot more moving pieces, when you have your own show, as you well know, 700 plus episodes. You know, when we were kind of conceiving what would become kick caster early on, we kind of thought about that about producing big shows, you know. And ultimately, we decided not to, largely because of that reason, because there's a, the expectation kind of falls off a cliff, when you have all this enthusiasm, about putting the show together, you get a couple of shows out and you're like, Wow, that's a lot of work, you know. So I don't think that should be discouraging to folks, I just produced enough shows that I knew that really, you have this peak enthusiasm, and then it wanes, if they haven't created a system for themselves, that's kind of self sufficient to support a podcast, they might just drift. So you know, as far as being a guest, it's a great way to have an amazing podcast experience where you go as a guest on other people's shows. And there's a real reciprocity behind it, whereas you can share your expertise. And in exchange for that, you know, you get access to the audience of the podcast is work really hard to build. So I think it's really, it's really cool. You know, and I think that at the core of podcasting is what makes it so unique, you know, that it started off free, as opposed to, you know, music, which started out really expensive, and then just became free. So, because it starts with kind of this reciprocal kind of, like, principle baked into it, I think it just, it enhances the experience for everybody.
Let's kind of talk some of the basics. Why should a business leader, you know, even think about being on podcast? I mean, what is what is the the appeal to it? And why, you know, why should they do it?
You know, and our clients, they have all kinds of different reasons they want to do it. But the outcomes are totally central to what we're doing. So, when we begin a campaign, you know, we'll have a discovery call where we start with, like, Hey, what are the ideal outcomes of this campaign? You know, we work largely with, you know, funded startup founders, entrepreneurs with exits, C suite executives, so usually, they have a pretty good idea of what's lacking, you know, everybody wants prospects, you know, so we definitely want to move the needle in business where we can with podcast interviews, but then there's other varying kinds of stuff, you know, there's probably just straight brand differentiation, where people like, Hey, I'm in a really competitive market, you know, we all have various flat blue logos, you know, how are we going to make a difference for our brand in podcast becomes a great opportunity, because particularly if there is like, highly on in depth in differentiated markets, but getting to know the founder of the company a little bit, or the CEO of the company a little bit, maybe the reason you pull the trigger. So you know, just brand awareness is a huge one, we also see a lot of folks looking for recruiting, you know, particularly in SAS and tech, you know, everyone's like competing for the same engineers, you know, and there's a lot of perks. So, you know, talking about your culture, and like, the kind of people that work really well, your company has been, has been great for that. You know, because we do work with a lot of SAS and startup, you know, fundraising, they're always kind of on that wheel. So, you know, using podcast specifically to speak to audiences that are looking for early to mid stage investment opportunities has been really successful. So really, it's just, you know, we sit down, hey, what do you want? You know, and then that kind of leads us to an audience and from understanding the audience that leads us to kind of a various categorical podcast to start to pitch them to
you. It's interesting, the one thing you didn't mention is going on and saying, hey, buy from me buy from me buy from me.
Yeah, nobody likes that. Doesn't work.
This the neon sign going? Danger, danger, right? Yeah, yeah, totally.
I mean, you know, humanity evolved around a campfire telling stories. That's what people want to hear. You know, if they're interested in your product, they'll go find it. You know, especially people are on their phone. They're folding laundry, they're doing dishes, listening to podcast. What are they gonna like dry their hands, go to your website guy.
You know, the latest widget that you're selling.
Yeah, it's not a sales positive atmosphere. Um, caveat being. We see a lot of sale for
podcast. Let's be honest, it's in there. It's just You said one of the key words story, you know, it's part of that story that that you're telling.
Yeah, exactly. They they get to the end of the podcast and like, you know, Deb's cool, I'm gonna go check out a website, and then there's a whole experience of discovery, you know, or they listen to a show. That's awesome. I'm gonna share this product with my friend, hey, Alice, this podcast, you got to check it out. I think we perfect for your business. So there's just kind of like this baked in kind of network virality I think through podcasting, that's, that's wonderful. We see it all the time is challenging. However, maybe if you're a marketing director, because oftentimes it doesn't fit neatly on spreadsheets. Right? You know, so, we'll have, we'll get drilled by the marketing director like, Oh, what's this? This this? It's like, Well, man, yeah, this is the CPC campaign, you know what I mean? Yeah. So it works very successfully. For people that have very clear objectives in ways they're going to measure the success of podcast campaign, and also people that are really committed to, you know, personal development, going on podcasts and learning how to tell your story and how to connect to audiences without being salesy, but imbibing the passion with what you do is, is a skill that you master over a lifetime, if you're lucky, you know, and podcast becomes kind of a playground where you can work on that,
thank you. And it's kind of that old, you argument between advertising and public relations. Your podcasting really is a function of PR, you know, and I'm an old PR person, you know, that's, that's what I started doing your way back a long time ago. And it's, it's interesting, because it is your PR is about telling that story. You never, sometimes quite sure what's going to happen. You know, I remember one time I worked for somebody, and they, they said, You know what, we wanted it to say this, and this and this and come out on this day. And I said, Well, that's called an ad. That's not a press release. And, you know, and sure you develop relations with the media, but, you know, it's still, you know, you are at their, their mercy, almost to, you know, to do that. And what I love about podcasting is, you know, it's, it's, it can be as long or as short as you want. I mean, you know, mine is a little bit of an anomaly, because it's an hour, you know, most podcasts, I think, average about 30 minutes. But I find that at the 30 Minute, Mark, I still have so many more questions that, you know, we just have to keep going for an hour anyway. But it really is you it's about telling that story. And, and that's what public relations is. It's it's, you know, building the goodwill with public.
Totally. And what's cool and maybe novel about podcasting is it puts you in the driver's seat, you know, you're not working with a publicist crafting your narrative, it's like, hey, for better or for worse, open your mouth and solve your problems.
Right. So, I mean, it's, it's, obviously, you know, podcasts like mine, I'm not doing any gotcha interviews or anything like that. There. I mean, there certainly are those that are out there. But it's just, you know, like, with, with anything, you know, what you get when you're going on, you know, or you should mean if you haven't done your research, then then you don't know that but, but yeah, it's, you know, there is some some basics, like, you know, I used to do media training, it's a little bit of the same thing, you have to be comfortable in front of a mic, you have to be you know, if if it's gonna be video, you have to be comfortable in front of the camera, you know, some things like that. So there's some some basic things that you need to know. And, and you have to know what you're going to talk about. I mean, that is that the important thing, so if somebody comes to you and says, Hey, Ryan, I want to be a podcaster. Now what?
Well, if they want to be if they want to build their own show, I know some absolutely amazing people that do just that. So if you're thinking about I want to build a podcast,
and it is very different than being a podcast guest. Yeah,
absolutely. So you want to build your own show you one thing you should also be thinking about is how you're going to launch that show. Because you if you put a lot of pride and care into your show, and you have one lesson and it's you there's nothing wrong with that, but like why not? Of course, absolutely. And small is oftentimes better, you know, to have a good niche, but you should be you should be mindful of how you're going to launch and have a go to market strategy for your podcast. So if somebody comes to me, I send him to the best the best in the business. You know, one kind of unique thing about kid casters, we had opportunities to do a little this little that different things and I'm guilty as maybe other founders of chasing shiny things. Exactly. But we really focused in with Kip caster to chew to do just one thing and write book entrepreneurs on other people's podcasts. So it gives us this great opportunity to have people are looking for some something and resources outside of the podcast, guessing kind of category that we can make referrals to some of our partners and vice versa. So you know, we set out to be the world's best at this service, which means a lot in different vectors. But one of those is like creating relationships. So somebody's like, hey, I want to make a podcast, I'm gonna be the first person in their corner. Tell them they should do it, and then make that referral to somebody else. You know, somebody like, says, Hey, I just want to go on people's podcast, I want to be a guest on podcast like, Well, you're in the right place now.
So if I tell you that, what are the steps?
You bet. So it's easy kind of three step process. First step is to really identify the outcomes, the audience in the podcast, we're going to pitch kind of covered. Second step is we build media kits, specifically for podcasting. Deb, I'm sure you've seen a bunch of them, they all kind of look really cool. It's a web page. It has kind of the mission identity,
all important one sheet,
the one sheet, you know, and it gives opportunities for hosts to know what you want to talk about, you know, so not only topics that you want to talk about what questions you'd like to be answered, we really want to tee up their best stuff, give him the best opportunity and give the podcast host a lot of opportunities to talk about different things that might be intriguing to them. So we get the media kit together. And then the third step is really what we do every day. There's 18 of us here in Denver that manage the pitch, the pre production and scheduling of the show. So basically, from the information that we've gathered, we've kind of galvanized that into the media kit. And then we go in pursuit of great podcast placements. The engagements are usually about six months, and we usually put people on about three shows per month. So
good number for people who are going through three is really I mean, that's one ish a week, you do have other things you're doing right? running your business. So
yeah, and the folks that we work with are like, type a, you know, I mean, they're going a million miles an hour, and their time is very precious. So, you know, we really, kind of with about an hour per week, you know, you can if you got a floating hour in there, we can put you on these podcasts.
You know, and I love it. When do I get as as a podcaster I get pitches, you know, I get probably five a week, you know, and very rarely do I actually turn somebody completely down. Um, and and that's more just because it's not a business topic. We can't figure out how to make it a business topic. And you know, and so I like, like you I refer him to someone else. But, you know, I have the people who were the do it yourselfers. And then I have the agencies and it's, you know, it's not good or bad either way. I mean, you know, I, I love working with agencies, because there are times where I go to home and say, Oh, my gosh, I've got a hole. I need somebody here. Plus, those are you You said something about this earlier relationships. You know, I have some relationships with some some agencies where I know if I go to them, I'm getting a good guest, or if they come to me, it's not just hey, we've got five people that we're pitching this week, it's, here's the one person that we really think would be good for your program.
100% Yeah, and, you know, agencies, hopefully they're doing that. They're, they're saying like, Hey, we've got a perfect guest that that will hit it off with that, let's go
right now. And you can do it yourself. I mean, you know, there's I get, probably about a quarter of the people that come to me are do it yourselfers. And, you know, there's it, there's, there's obviously nothing wrong with it. But you do have to know the steps you need to go through just like, you know, when when you're working with somebody, you have to you have to know what you're going to talk about. I love it. When I get the ones I can talk about a variety of topics,
such as
Oh, my heroine, and, and and all be honest, from my perspective. If I have to work at it, I'm probably not going to do and it's not that I'm lazy. It's that I expect that to have already been done. So I want somebody to come to me and say hey, I have these five topics that I can speak about. Or you know, I'm an expert in this area. Here's your here's a that because the less I have to do, the better that is now I still research it. I mean I still if somebody is an author, I read their book. If they are you know I always go to their websites, they go to their LinkedIn pages, all of those things. I mean, I'm not just gonna sit here and say, So Ryan, tell me what you do. Um, but But yeah, I mean, you'll make it make it easy for me.
Yeah, absolutely. And let's say one thing I like to say too, is like, maybe have a little twinkle in your eye, you know, like help by being present on the conversation, which is easier for some people and kind of challenging for other people, you know? Because podcast Gen to be more or tend to be more conversational. You know, there's, there's a give and take, you know, as opposed to an interview, or just, I'm sitting here patiently for you to lob questions at me, you know, and then I give st yes or no answers. That can be kind of a conversation killer. I mean, it's like, would you want to talk to that person at a cocktail party? Probably not. How was your weekend? Fine. All right, cool.
I mean, that that is the nice thing about Zoom is it is more like a conversation. I mean, clearly, we used to do these, you know, just just audio. And yeah, when you can see somebody, it is just a much better conversation. Said I totally agree. Yeah. And I asked my guests, what do you want to cover? I mean, you know, and, and it's funny, there are times where I get asked them this question. Yeah. You know, and, and sometimes they do, sometimes I don't, I mean, because for me, it is part of the conversation. You know, I long ago, when we first started this, I had mentioned, this was a live program, and and my guests came into the studio too. So it was great fun. I mean, you know, it was a ton of fun. And, and I was interviewing someone from a nonprofit in Denver. And it was actually a nonprofit I volunteered for so I knew, you know, it might have been, and it was that video. It was it was it was great. And, and their director of special events was who I was talking to. And she came in with her questions from the executive director, you know, you will ask this, and this and this. And I looked at it, you know, and so we did question one and two and three. And then I skipped to like, Question seven, because the conversation took us there. And I get this deer in headlights look, and I can tell she's thinking, I'm going to get fired. I was told you. And so I'm like, It's all right. We'll cover all of this. But it to me to be a good podcast guest. It is about being able to follow where that conversation may go. And sometimes I'm like, squirrel, go off in some Wonka doodle way.
That's more interesting. Anyway.
I mean, I forget to do your bio at the start.
I was interviewing a gal once she was a brewer at a brewery here in Denver. I don't know if you've heard but we've got some of those. You've got
one or two. Yeah, one guy and then everybody else. But
if you throw a rock, it'll bounce off a dispensary and hit a brewery in. Yeah. But this is a rather large one. And I brought up like, Hey, I noticed like in your packaging, like you change, you changed the label. So that the the lady on the label was look looks less feminine. What why is that? And it may be she felt like it was a gotcha question. I was just curious. It looked like the lady on the label change clothes. What's up with that. And, you know, that was a that was probably as close to something edgy, or on the line that I ever got with the show. Because one thing and maybe you you can relate to this is there's a certain trust that's baked into having somebody on your podcast, which is to say, I'm not going to make this hard for you. Like, let's stick to the conversation topics that you're comfortable with. But like, let's walk towards the line a bit. So after speaking with that gal for a while, I think that the tough thing was she wasn't the founder of the company, and she didn't make the decision. So she's like, I don't know why the gal on the label change.
She's like, I have no idea what to say. I was like, okay, cool. I'm just curious. Yeah. But well, and there are times where I will ask a guest in the pre chat. And everybody does a different some people do a whole meeting before. I'm like, now we can we can spend 510 minutes before and, but I'll say okay, you know, I was talking with with someone about example, women in leadership positions here in the United States. We do have a lot of international listeners. And so I asked her, I said, Do you have any expertise in or knowledge about, you know, women leaders in other countries? And she said, not really. I said, Okay, so we don't go there. Um, you know, if she had said, Oh, my gosh, I want to talk I'm like, Okay, fine. I had a guest. I'm interviewing her later this week, who part of her life story and part of how she started her business was she was a victim of abuse as a child. And she said, is it going to be okay to talk about that? And I said, Yeah, I mean, it's part of your story. But, you know, that was very good on her part, to ask that in advance, rather than just all of a sudden spring it on me in the middle of the interview?
Yeah, totally add trauma and, and things like that we'll do the same thing, you know, oftentimes will say, is there anything about you that we should know that would help you to book you on podcasts, or that you want to steer away from, you know, in sometimes people are very open about their trauma, and it becomes like, it comes like the kind of like a superpower. Like, that's the main thing they want to talk about. And other folks would be like, actually, I'm uncomfortable with this, and this and so we can be specific with that. Because we want to make sure that everyone's comfortable and, and confident and that it doesn't get too, too emotional, unless they want to do that. And then there's a place for that as well, you know, but it's a really important consideration for sure is just like, people's like, capacity for big emotions, because definitely, in podcasting, big emotions come up, oftentimes is leading up to a podcast for people that are new with it, you know, what are we going to talk about? What are they gonna say, oh, my gosh, I looked at Deb's roster, she's had such killer guests. I'm not good enough, or I'm too good for this. I you know, there's just that it comes up, you know, so usually we're prepared for that. Because we've done it so many times.
I think the funniest one I ever had, um, this was, we were still using Skype. And when I was talking with a guest about online security. Okay, this is great topic, right? And doesn't matter when or where it's a great topic. And so I said something about Skype, and he says, Well, I don't use Skype. And I said, Okay, that's how we record the interview. And he said, well, but someone might listen. And I, you know, and luckily, he couldn't see my face, because I really had the eye roll thing going. And I said, You do understand that's the goal of this. And he was like, Oh, right. That's the interview. That worked out fine. And I'm pretty sure that he, you know, took Skype back off of his computer. But, but yeah, I was like, Okay, I know, it's, I try and make it like, it's a chat just between the two of us. But, you know, we really do hope we have listeners.
Yeah, totally, we want to encourage them to do that. We're not trying to hide,
you know, that, that brings me to something that a lot of my guests and and you know, that that and and you know, whether it's the guests or the promoters, when I know that my program has been listened to in advance. Now that gets you major kudos, you know, if you if I get a pitch from somebody, and they say, Hey, we just heard your interview with Ryan esters, we thought it was great. We would like to, you know, even if they don't even say anything much about it, just the fact that they that means that they went to my webpage, right, or they went to iTunes, you'll but it's also a great way, if you're going to be a guest, you should listen to a couple episodes, to see what their style is, you know, is it rapid fire? Do you get to have a lot of time to give answers. I mean, all of those things.
Yeah, I totally agree. You know, it helps you understand the pace of the show. It helps the personality of the podcast host. You know, usually I'm pretty good about like, kind of doing some research and, and going and checking out the show before but I've missed it and podcast I was on recently. I missed it and boil. I blew it because this guy's energy was like at an 11 Ah, I mean, he was screaming, he was going nuts. Like, it was like 730 in the morning here. And I was having a really hard time pacing and like holding his energy, which I feel like if I if I would have known what I was walking into, I would have got up early and done push
up. Had some extra coffee.
I just couldn't I couldn't reach this energy. Yeah.
Right. Yeah. And, and, and that is part of it. You know? Are they high energy? It's really funny. When we moved here, I had someone who listen to my podcast, and he came up to me, you know, and I'm in the south now. Right? And and he came up and he said, darlin, I love your podcast, but y'all gotta slow down. And I realized that, you know, that was it. I mean, I just it and that's part of it. You as a guest sometimes too, you get wound up and you get to go in and you're like, Okay, that's dial it back a bit. You know, and that is part of knowing how to be a good guest.
Yeah, you know, it's, it's, it's really helpful with butterflies to, you know, if you're going on a podcast, you're recording a podcast, you should have some butterflies. You know, and one recommendation I always say is like, if you can choose to speak 10% slower. That's gonna help not only like, you be a little bit more coherent, but but also it's gonna kind of nullify some of those butterflies because it gives your brain a chance to kind of catch up. But yeah, if you're bringing that ganky energy down south saying, oh, slow down.
And then he then he told me Oh, bless your heart. And it's like, oh, yeah, that's one of those really
in Atlanta now.
Yeah, man, I'm here I am, here I am. But, you know, being on a podcast, I mean, it really is about all of those kind of subtleties. Because you're not only do you want to be the good guest, we podcasters talk to each other. And more importantly, we're gonna say, oh, my gosh, I've got a great person that I talked to that you need to talk to also, you know, and, you know, Whitney, very rarely, I mean, you know, I've done 730 some podcasts. I mean, that's, that's quite a few. And
in the top 1% Yeah,
I like to talk alright. Less than five people. I mean, less than five people have I thought, ooh. And, and I also realized that was my fault. I somehow didn't find what I would click with them on. And, and so, you know, it was just, you know, okay, when, but I would never tell another host Hey, don't have them. Unless it was something really egregious. Or maybe they didn't come prepared. You know, I have had I've had a couple people. It's really funny, who say, Well, you know, this is 30 minutes, right? I've only given you 30 minutes. I'm like, You do understand the name is the business Power Hour. And I had one that was 20 minutes. It was like I scheduled and I that Okay? Um, you know, I mean, it is a podcast, I can cut it short. But, but yeah, it's about kind of knowing some of those things, too.
Yeah. 100%. Totally. It's polite. I know. Yeah. You know,
go be a guest at somebody's house. You you you look them up on Facebook.
Yeah, you do a little stalking. That kind of reminds me of, you know, I did my podcast for forever, you know, eight, 910 years, something like that. It's sort of had different iterations. So in sometimes I would go to people's offices, and interview them on their home turf. And then And then my favorite iteration was, I bring him to mind and I had a great podcast studio built, it was beautiful. But it really went off the rails pretty quick. Because in order to get them comfortable, because one thing if you coming into my studio, man that it really amplifies those butterflies a lot, right?
They're like pretty nervous. This guy is you know, this is Walter Cronkite here. Yeah, exactly,
like put a glass of water and you like you comfortable here, sit down here some headphones, okay, now talk close to the mic, not too close. You know, so they're just like, they're amped up. And so to kind of calm, calm them down and kind of make make them feel at home. You know, it's like, hey, you know, if you're a fighter, you're you're walking to the ring, what's your walkout music, you know, and so they tell me a song. And I put on that song as an intro the podcast, to them about the podcast or about the song. But the whole podcast was derailed. I mean, we spent like, 3545 minutes, sometimes the whole entire thing, just going over this song and making jokes and cracking up about it. And now getting. But to me, it was my favorite thing, you know, because it was spontaneous. And it was, it was a way of playing with those jitters and nerves. And interesting way that really got you got to know the person in a cool way and did kind of have a fun segue into the next section. But you know, then the podcast ends up being 990 minutes, two hours. And now what are you doing, we got stuff to do here, but it was a fun time for sure.
But you just hit on something that is so important. It is a way for people to get to know, the person that's being interviewed, you know, and, and my job is to do that to you know, really get that, you know, get to you elicit the answers. And then it comes back to that whole know, like, trust, you know, I'm getting to know you a little bit more, so I'm probably going to trust you. And then maybe I will do business with you, or you know, at least check you out a little bit more. And so this is a great way for people to really get their their personal brand awareness out there.
Oh, it's the best. Yeah, it's the best. I mean, you get to know somebody pretty well, from a podcast typically. I mean, there's definitely the Hot Seat type places where you're shooting numbers back and forth. But you know, shows like yours conversational shows, it should be a differentiator, you know, and that's assuming that you're a decent person. I mean, some folks that maybe they shouldn't go on podcast. But generally speaking, you know, if you're passionate about what you're doing You know, and it means something to you that's going to come through, you know, it gives you opportunity to kind of dive into it. With kindred spirits. I mean, the other thing is like, the entrepreneurs that we're working with their friends and partners don't want to hear about their business anymore. You know, the staff doesn't want to hear about it. Like, they're, they're
already in your garage.
Yeah, they're just like, bro, man, I know, please stop talking about your work. And so, you know, you kind of run out of people to talk about, but when you're so passionate about it, like this is a place for you, where you have similar people that is particularly in like business podcasts where people are solving problems, and they're looking to podcast as resources. So you have like, an audience who's like, gamat, tell me what you do, I really want to hear about it, you know, and to get that enthusiasm from your friends and family, sometimes it's just not going to happen.
You know, and that, you know, we mentioned going on just, you know, three or four a month. Part of that is, is by design, because if you're saying it too many times, then it loses that luster. Also, you know, it's kind of the, you know, I used to you talk about being in music, I used to be a theatre person. And about, you know, the cool 50 is 50 of time you perform something is really hard sometimes to get excited to be in that role.
Oh, totally. Yeah, absolutely. Nike, I'm sure for you 700 episodes, there's all kinds of little tricks, you have to keep you interested. You know, and that's kind of a fun thing. As podcasting becomes old hat to you. You know, we also do media training, but we call it story crafting, because a lot of folks that we work with are like, Oh, I've done media training. And it's like, well, it's not that really, it's about like, organizing your anecdotes in different ways. So if you've got, let's say, you start with a half a dozen, you do another session, we got a dozen, you have a dozen different anecdotes, and like, these are the highlights, you know, your hierarchy light reel of your stories, well, you can walk into that, that podcast interview and be like, I want to, I want to get these two stories in. And so it becomes kind of like, a fun challenge, you know, or at least it gives you a basis to kind of get some of the material out that you want to work with.
Let's talk more about how you work with people. So you know, I only twice I think if I ever had somebody tell me, this is my first podcast, and my usual thought is oh, crap. And it's, you know, it's more, I'm thinking, Okay, you shouldn't have picked an hour as your first budget, they both went well, um, but I made an extremely concerted effort to make sure that this was a good experience for them. You know, I didn't want them to be done and think I'm never doing this again. But you know, what, how do you work with people? So you've got their messaging down? Do they do do practice interviews? I mean, how do you do all of this?
You know, we we support them a lot moving up to it, you know, there's a there it. When, you know, when I talk about big emotions, it happens. You know, because a lot of times people are like, Oh, this would be cool. This is kind of a novel thing. Yeah, I want to do podcasting. You know, so we start going through that those conversations in the beginning, it's like, wow, well, you know, Hey, maybe I didn't think about like, the outcomes I want. You know, maybe I, I don't know who my ideal client is, you know, some of these, this information might not be on the tip of your tongue, you know, and then we move into the media kit, and we're like, Hey, tell me about yourself. What do you like to do? And if you haven't done that, if anybody has written a bio, it's excruciating. Oh, yeah. Terrible. The worst? You're like, Oh, my God your
own? I mean, that's what somebody else ran for you.
Yeah. You let you start looking at yourself. I don't even know who I am anymore. Why would anybody want to talk to me? This is terrible. You know, so we get through that, and then they have to look at it. You know, it's like, well, here's who you said, you are, you know, and they're like, Well, I don't like that. And I don't like that. And you're like, okay, okay, you know, we it's an iterative process. And we understand all this. We know that, like, these emotions come up. So we get them through that. We start booking on shows. And the way that I think we're most nurturing our clients is we're very process driven. And they know where everything is at all times. Were very white glove. Because we know we're dealing with people's like, secrets. Sometimes we're dealing with people's hopes, dreams, aspirations and fears. You know, we bring them in for a story craft session, spend an hour with them of like, milling up some of this some challenging material oftentimes and sending it back to them in a document that they can use in podcasting. And at that point, we send them on their way, you know, will typically choose Jack in midway through the campaign and say, hey, you know, how, how's it going? Do you want to do kind of an audit? We could, we could certainly like, listen to some shows and, and see if there's room for improvement. And some folks really love that, you know, particularly like technical founders, right? You know, people, people that spend a lot of time in front of glowing rectangles, and not so much flesh and blood people. They're great at podcasts, but oftentimes, they think they're a little bit insecure. So we're there to have people and systems that they can count on and rely on to help them get through this and, and hopefully flourish, you know,
well, let's go to the opposite. What mistakes have you seen people make? Oh, boy,
a lot of like, innocent mistakes, you know, is 2021 2022 just about, you know, in the vernacular, and slang changes a lot all the time. So, the only real mistakes I've seen is people saying the wrong word. And in the three times it has been I can't talk
about Facebook anymore. It has to be meta.
I don't know the goons from from meta might hunt you down. There was a time when a client had said fisting instead of fist bump. So that was, you know, and even our stand why they are giggling the podcast, how's it going, but, you know, in every time something like that's happened, we've, we found a remedy. Because Because like you, you know, we don't encourage folks to be too centered on on trying to edit, you know, it's like, if you say something walk back from like, actually, that's not what I met, let me unpack that. And give him some tips to like, be able to correct himself in real time, because it's actually more interesting for the listener. But the only mistakes are just kind of innocent ones where maybe they're saying the wrong word. If I can think of another example, it would be just people that were, how do you say it rude? You know, if you kind of a rude person I podcast is probably not a good idea for you. Right. But otherwise, I think if you're generally sympathetic, then it's probably going to be a great solution for you.
Right? Yeah. And, and then there are things like after the program, um, you know, it continues to amaze me. I mean, like I said, I've been doing this a long time. When, you know, I send somebody you know, my producer, you talk about having a team, oh, my gosh, I couldn't do this without my producer. Um, but, you know, she'll send the information, she'll say, you know, Hey, your podcast is, is live today, yada, yada, yada. And then we hear crickets, you know, they, they, either they, if they promote it, they don't tag and we're pretty good. I mean, you know, our stuff says, Here's, you know, here's how to tag us, here's, you know, all of those various things. And so either they're, they're not tagging, right, and so we're just not seeing it, or they're not promoting it. And then of course, my thought is, didn't they like it? Um, you know, when and, and the funny thing is, when I have been the guest on people's programs, I've done the same thing.
It's just like, it's interesting right? Now,
you know, those days, you'll get the note and say, You're going live? And I'm like, Yeah, I'll do it in a minute. And then three days later, I'm like, huh, oops.
Yeah, no, it's very true. It's a really interesting phenomenon. You know, we do help people, we have a separate product called the podcast content studio, where we help people create marketing assets for podcasts they've been on. And the people that love it, love it, you know, because we will we build an artwork, we get great quotes from the podcasts. And we build kind of SEO rich blog content based on the thing. But then there's other folks that are like, and I don't know why, but it's, it's comforting for me to hear that you have the same experience where it's just like, I want to promote it, but I don't know. There's a block there.
Well, and yeah, I mean, I do I'm like, I really enjoyed it. But then yeah, I totally forget to promote it. I mean, what works best and I'll be honest with you on this is when they promote it, I see it and share it. Oh, yeah, this was great to be on there. And so that's, you know, that's a cheap way to do this, folks. This is perfectly fine to do this. You if you're on a podcast and they promote it on social media. It's okay to just share what they did. You don't
like it? You know, I mean, the other thing is, is that social media is kind of achy now. You know, there's some kind of gross about it. So there's other ways you can share it. One thing I like to do is make recommendation that in your email signature, you know, build a page on your website that says, my blog, my podcast episodes. And then in your email signatures, like, Hey, if you want to listen to my podcast episodes, click here, right? So it's a way you it's kind of, it's more passive. And it's not really logging into the Zuckerberg meta universe or whatever, ungodly thing he's making over there.
But you should be doing this on LinkedIn. Let's be honest. Yeah,
that's what LinkedIn is for, you know what I mean? That's why LinkedIn is there. If you're going to be on LinkedIn, like, be on LinkedIn, and, you know, our kind of take is like, why not have a Cadillac impression on LinkedIn? Like, do it right, and podcasts are the best way to do it?
And again, I mean, you know, it's, it's easy enough just to share the the, you know, the link from the show, add a little bit, really love this thought we had great conversation. I mean, you know, just don't. But yeah, then you're not having to redo it. But from a PR perspective, you should also know, anytime that you're mentioned somewhere, I mean, you know, that's just so you should be keeping track of that anyway.
Yep. And if you are mentioned, say, Thank you, you know, in the podcast world, the way you say thank you is rating and review the podcast on podcast rate and review the show, you know, it's a great way to do it. Yeah.
And hopefully give us five stars, right? Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Don't review it. Unless it's five stars. Yeah, that's
awesome. Oh, my gosh, Ryan, we've only got a couple minutes left. This has been so much fun. And clearly, I mean, it's, it's a passion for it for both of us. But tell us more about Kitt caster? How do people find you? What are the services that you provide and things like that?
Cool, just go to kit caster comm there's a real easy button, just hit Apply now sent an application through that goes to our account executives, if it's a good fit, check it out. But there's a ton of resources there for podcasting for marketing of podcasting, from podcasting, and PR, you know, our content team does a fantastic job, you know, because I made it when I say we really want to be the best in the world at this. And I think we're well on our way.
Yeah, I was looking at that, you know, I'm looking at an article right now preparing for podcast interviews. And you got boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, you know, so even if you're doing this on your own, there's great content there.
Yeah, totally. We're advocates of the podcast as a medium, and as a net positive for culture. So we want to we want to help people, you know, our mission is to celebrate good conversation. It's not booking podcasts, it's Celebrate good conversation. So that's what we're trying to do.
And, and it is about having those conversations. And I think for someone who's wanting to go on podcasts, that's what you need to remember. You know, it's it's about having that that conversation with the host and and just, you know, talking to him, like you would, you know, if we actually could meet in places and have coffee.
Yeah, exactly. But, you know, our coffee with somebody is impossible to get now.
Right? I know, I know. But yeah, it's cod, it is about having those conversations, building those relationships. And, and as you do that, then it it does rub off, and the listeners and the viewers feel that, you know, and if you can't, if you're not that warm, fuzzy person, then you know, it could be a challenge.
100% Absolutely. Although we we've had some success with curmudgeons.
Well, and it depends on what you're talking about, right? I mean, you're like the guy who was talking about Internet security with me, that was kind of a curmudgeonly type type of light. But yeah, and obviously, it depends on the subject and on the program as to you know, the the conversation that you're going to have
100% You definitely don't need to be a bubbly person, I think, you know, you do it. There's some nice polarity there. Like if you're serious type person, great. That works. If you're friendly person, that works great, too. If you kinda in the middle there, I don't know. But generally speaking, if people have a desire to do podcast, I encourage it any possible way they can, and they'll have success at it.
And don't expect it to be perfect. Um, you know, I think that is probably the biggest thing that people tell me because they'll say we want to be a guest. But, you know, and I tell them get past that, you know, if it's not if you have a good host, they'll make it as painless as possible.
Absolutely. I like to give the advice. You know, don't judge your parents until your your 100th Episode is published. Because the paralysis by analysis is real. You don't sound like how you think you're gonna sound Hey, listen yourself back you'd like who is that person? Oh, yeah, my mouth. That's what I say. Yeah, let it go, you know, it's good to be critical, but But wait till the 100th episode, you know, give yourself some some room to, you know, make mistakes
and you will make mistakes, you know, you'll you'll forget to read some of these bio at the start of the program and and these things happen I mean yeah, that's that's the important thing is as you said, Yeah, we walk our way through it and we go on percent. Well Ryan, this has been absolutely fabulous. And as we said, you just go to kit caster.com Great information. You know, you've got your, your contact information there too, so people can reach out to you. Do you have any final thoughts for anyone?
You know, I don't but I just want to say thank you to you, Deb. Um, you know, this has been a really fun interview, but also for being welcoming to our clients is wonderful, and I just really appreciate what you do. So thanks a
lot. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And as we talked about at the beginning of the program, I'm good. There's some that I'm looking for from you. So that's yeah, and and that's, you know, that's that's one of the things too, is it is about the relationships as we were saying.
Everything Is Everything that's worth anything is Yeah,
I love it. Well, I am Deb courier I've been having the absolute most wonderful discussion about why you really need to go be on podcast with Ryan Estus of kick caster, and until next time, everyone have a great day.
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