Today's episode is sponsored by Feathr. Feathr provides digital marketing tools and strategies for nonprofits of all shapes and sizes, including the Humane Society of North Central Florida. Stick around for the break to hear how Feathr powered their $300 digital ad campaign that raised nearly $6,000 In just one day.
Hey, I'm John.
And I'm Becky.
And this is the We Are For Good podcast.
Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.
So welcome to the good community, where Nonprofit Professionals, philanthropist world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
So let's get started. Hey, Becky, what's happening?
Hey, John.
I mean, I remember the day that we met Diana, because you know, we love Pledge, we get to work with Pledge, and we're kind of inspired by them as an organization, just how they show up. And Diana recently joined that team as the director of marketing and storytelling. And I don't know what we expected. But when we met her, we're like, oh, my gosh, she's so our people. She's so kind, her story is winding. But one that just shows how when you follow your passion, and you follow what you're really good at and your strengths. And you apply that to an area like marketing, like content strategy, like building really incredible teams and improved culture. When you put that all together, you have just a unicorn of a human being. And that is Diana in a nutshell. And so we were really excited to get her on the podcast, I want her to share her story today. But let me just give you a little bit of background. She is a content strategist, she's you know, a brand leader who has just been driven by the power for good. But at the heart, she's really the system thinker. She's inspired by nature, like truly in her work, and the way she talks and the way she shows up. She has been an environmentalist, you know, as a leader, but also in her life. And I think that does speak through the way that she shows up in seeing people and seeing nature and how it is all connected. And her experience really embodies this idea of leaning into holistic, vibrant approaches that blend the things that we love, you know, publishing and wellness and leadership all through this lens of incredible emotional intelligence. And we just learned from her whenever we hang around Diana, so we just wanted to get her in this house. And today talk about really building scalable marketing infrastructure, because it's not just stuff, you know. And that's what I really love about Dan is she really challenged us to think about the bigger picture that's here and building the team that builds a really vibrant culture around it. And so Diana, it is a huge honor to have you on the podcast, you've worked with some incredible brands, and now you're leading over at Pledge. So we're just so delighted to have you here. Welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for having me, this is my favorite podcast. So it is an absolute honor to be here. I've learned so much from you guys and all the incredible guests you have. So I'm really excited about this conversation.
Well, I specifically did not go too much into your journey, because I think you are a storyteller. And I think that your winding path and the experiences you've had have shaped you into this really vibrant, incredible human. And I just love to just kind of take us on the journey take us back from little Diana growing up into kind of how you found your passion and you've been channeling it in your career too. So take us back.
Absolutely, I definitely think that my childhood experience is one that has hugely influenced who I am as a person and what I do professionally. So I was born in St. Petersburg, Russia. And when I was a baby, my family moved to Riga, Latvia, which was at the time part of the former Soviet Union. It's now part of the European Union. And so I grew up in Latvia until the age of seven, almost eight years old, when I came to America, with my parents who were very, very young at the time. And this was such a huge thing. As you can imagine, I was very, very close to my grandparents in Latvia, is really hard to leave. And, and also, I think that the age that this happened, I was old enough to remember my life before and have all of these experiences, but also kind of young enough to be able to assimilate and learn in this new world. And so I remember, when I came, there were all these things that I had never had before, like bananas and Coca Cola. Like I had it for the first time. And I remember turning on TV, and being so shocked that my Russian cartoon shows that I had loved were not there. Like I knew in theory that people in America spoke English, but for me like TV is TV, right? Like my cute little shows will still be there and they weren't. So at this young age, I had this huge culture shock and to make things even more fun and complicated, because I did not have all of the right documentation that was needed to go to public school right away. And because my dad was Jewish, I ended up going to like a Jewish school basically, you know, like a private school, I had to wear a uniform. And in the school, I had to learn Hebrew in taught in English, where all I could speak was Russian, you know, so it was like, and Hebrew is like left to right. So even even the way that you read it is completely, exactly. So, you know, there were just so many of these moments where I was like, everything is different, you know, so, but my saving grace, I would say, in that moment in the school was that there was another little girl in the class, who also spoke Russian. So of course, the teacher was like, okay, you know, buddy up, you're gonna help her kind of learn the ropes. And so this became my first friend, and really this vital bridge of compassion, of understanding of kind of helping me at least have someone that I could express myself to, and that could explain things to me, to help me be in this new environment, right. And that, of course, includes all of these cultural differences as well that I was trying to learn. And then, of course, you know, I was there for maybe about a year, and then I went to regular public school. So like, number two, culture shock number two, exactly, yet again, so very, very different. And unfortunately, at that school, like the kids were not kind like they totally made fun of me, for like being different for like, being Russian, like it was a whole thing, kids can be cruel. But I think what ended up being what ended up resulting from that is just this kind of feeling between two worlds, you know, and kind of like forging those paths between being, okay, a little bit on the outside of things, trying to find a path to belonging, and sometimes finding it through really great people or great teachers, and not always having it there. But having a sense of empathy and understanding of what it's like to be somebody that's a little bit outside and does not have the information that you have, right. And I think that that really sort of formed who I am as a communicator, because you know, when you're doing marketing communications, you have to have a really deep level of contextual understanding, who are you speaking to? What did they know? And what do they not know? I find that in everyday conversation, people converse and the subtext of what is said, are assumptions being made on the part of the communicator, that is information that the listener does not have, but neither of them know it, you know. And so if you're able to communicate, you know, sometimes I hear people saying this, and I'm like, oh, but that person is referring to this. And they're like, oh, you know, so just these little things that help create understanding, I think is is something that that I cultivated through this this wacky immigrant experience. And then I think layered on top of that is also just that I'm an introvert, you know, there's definitely people in my life that would be like, no way because especially professionally, because I'm a marketer, I ended up being the face and voice of a brand. You know, I speak with eloquence and all of that. But in reality, like I'm an introvert, I get energy from being alone in a room for many hours, you know. But I think one of the great things about being an introvert is also being an observer, right? And just noticing the little things and the little things, as I know, you guys would agree, the little things really, really matter, when you're building a brand when you're building an organization when you're a communicator. And then one more thing just to bring it back to my love of nature. I am a huge nature lover, I'm an environmentalist, but I'm one of those nature lovers that's just in awe of how, like how are we not constantly talking about the wonders of being on this tiny little floating oasis in the blackness of space that is just so full of beauty and color and biodiversity and the way that nature manifests and materializes, it's like, I could stare at a leaf for hours. And I'm like, No, I can't I gotta do things, you know. And so I take this wisdom of nature, and specifically ecosystems, the way that ecosystems work, I really apply in many ways to marketing and to business growth. You know, if you asked me who's my marketing role model, I would say nature, you know, if you look at ecosystems and study them, there are so many components there that will tell you everything you need to know to create a great team, a great marketing infrastructure, a great business, because nature is a genius and a great systems thinker. And just is has an amazing way of connecting everything and designing everything beautifully, perfectly, you know. So that's why I go in the woods. And then I'm good at marketing. I don't know how it happens. But it just does.
Makes a ton of sense, actually.
I mean, you can see why we love and adore Diana's so much like the what a storyteller one, I mean, you can tell right there and that intro, and I just want to reflect back to you, you know, that your lived experience and in the way that you endured it. And this incredible sense of self understanding that you have is is so aspirational, to me, and the fact that you take those lived experiences, and you find ways to just help teach people how to embrace being different, or doing something differently, I can tell you, I have never once in my mind ever thought about looking to nature and biodiversity as a means to marketing, but you are 100%, right? Because I think about even taking something out of your marketing plan. If you just remove something, it throws the entire thing off kilter. And I think about like what we're seeing with sorry, to go environmental, but I have to like what we're seeing with the bee crisis right now, like if you are not leaned in to the fact that if we don't have bees, you know, in certain parts of this country, part of the biodiversity just crumbles underneath those systems. But I want to kind of pivot into this, how to create a scalable marketing infrastructure. You I want you to set the tone for us. We want to talk about like, what are the core elements, and checkmarks, you need to ensure that you're building a marketing infrastructure and scale and I think about this, you know, for someone that will have a really savvy, nonprofit marketer, or social impact marketer listening, but then we've got people who've never done it, and they're doing marketing, in addition to four or five other things, what would you say would be some places to start?
Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, I, as you mentioned, in the beginning, I'm new to the Pledge team, I've worked with many different sizes and types of organizations. So I think having that level of experience kind of makes it so that I can kind of come into a new organization, and being a holistic thinker, instinctively, I do kind of this assessment, right of number one, the external elements of the brand, right? So the mission, the message, the positioning, is it is it what it should be? Is it what it could be? Is it is it getting the results that it can? Is it uplifting? Or is it a little depressing, you know, is it is it beautiful? Or is it clunky, you know, you kind of just have to get the lay of the land. And then the other thing I do early on is then couple that with what are the internal resources, right? So what you can do with a team of two or three is not the same as what you can do with a team of 10 to 12. Right? So kind of doing that assessment. So bringing it back to nature, nature is all about Resource Exchange all about it. Right? So what are the resources at my disposal? Right, my water, my nitrogen, my sunlight? Like, where? Where's my resources at? Right? So then I kind of take those things. And the other thing that I think of is specific roles, and what can we do in order to kind of meet the the needs of the moment in terms of where the organization is right now. So in terms of those first roles, I have four that I think of as the most vital, and that can set you up to scale, right? So the core, the core four, right? I've never said that before, but hashtag four, four, okay, if you've got these, you're on the right path. So number one would be a content creator, right? So very often, you've got your general marketing person, they're good at content, and that's great. But if you have somebody that's dedicated to content creation, and this should be somebody that can write long form content, as well as short form, right, somebody that can write an SEO optimized blog posts right 15 ways to support mental health for mental health awareness month, that has keywords and all of that, but also someone that can be more of a narrative storyteller to talk about your you know, how you're executing your mission, right? So a specific project, a specific person, highlight something that that your organization accomplish, but they should also be able to create the visual presentation of that content. The one pagers, the decks, right. Some of the social content, you know, a really stellar content creator is someone who can write and design and I'm not talking like fancy shmancy design, I'm talking like Canva, in my view, Canva has revolutionized marketing, right. So if you've got a good content creator, they just need to have a pretty good AI to be able to create all of that. And if you have someone dedicated to it, they're really focused on it. And they're going to really hold and carry the voice of the brand throughout all this content, because you need content to get your mission out there, right? Number two, I would say is the marketing manager, right? This is somebody that can be kind of a generalist, and yes, they can create some content. But in marketing, there's all kinds of techy things too, right. So if you're creating, you know, a conversion friendly page, sometimes you're using apps, you got to format those apps, you got to make sure the forms are working. You know, this marketing manager is somebody that is a systems thinker. Somebody that is like a project manager type of person, this is a person that helps move things along, you know what I mean, to to get the traction to make sure there's progress, like, hey, we didn't get approval on this, let's get it done and move it along, right. Number three, would be social media manager, again, small teams, you end up having one person doing the content and the forms and the email and the social, you're going to be limited to what you can do on social. But if you have a mission and a message, whether it's a business or nonprofit, that is worth telling, you have to have a good presence on social because guess what, it creates brand awareness. It also drives real traffic. If you're posting consistently good content, and you are engaging, and you are community building in the social platforms. Any social media manager listening to me is going to appreciate what I'm about to say, hell yes, that is its own full time job, you know, a lot of misconceptions, like put up a post and get 1000 likes, no, no, that's not how it works at all, you need to be consistent, you need to experiment you need to really engage answer the DMS, you know, like, I can't tell you how many times I've like, you know, messaged a nonprofit, no response, right. So you need to be responsive and all of that. So that's number three. And then number four would be the marketing director. Right. So the marketing director, that's the role that I ended up playing very often. That is the unifier. And I'm a very soil to canopy kind of marketing director, which is why I love being a marketing. You know, there's also a CMO, which I don't consider part of my core for anything. I mean, because a marketing director, the difference is that that is somebody that can think through the execution. Right. So when I say soil to canopy, I mean, this is someone that can be in their nitty gritty in the weeds, like, oh, that copy is not right, I'm changing this paragraph, as well as that high level strategy of like, what do we need to do to achieve these high level goals? Right. And that marketing director also should be experienced somebody that is a mentor, and a good manager, a good leader in the human sense of things, right? Because that's how you're cultivating your own inner community, as a department within an organization and as part of the organization. And then last thing for that role would be that is the conduit also between that that leadership, right? So the CEO, the founder, marketing directors connected with that, and then taking sometimes big fluffy goals and saying, Alright, how am I going to take this big, big vision, and then really execute it? You know, that's one reason I really appreciate that you guys have me on the podcast is because there's so many wonderful CEOs and founders and leaders that are the ones that are initiating things. But then they need people like me, and they need to like this to actually then get things moving, right? And then to say, Okay, how do we take this big goal? How do we then create a strategy and then chunk it down into components for the rest of the team, to then execute, you know, and also create synergy within the team? So I would say those are kind of my core for content creators, social media manager, marketing manager, marketing director. Now how do you take that and build it to scale? Right, so what comes next? So let's say you've got that you're on a roll business is growing organization is growing, you're doing great. What's going to happen naturally, is a specialization that becomes necessary. So then I have like a second layer of this, which would basically the next thing I would consider as being really vital, is email. Email marketing is huge potential in terms of donations in terms of revenue. If you've got your course For and you've got a small team, yes, marketing director, marketing manager, content creator, they can create some email and have some consistency. But email, if you are setting yourself up for growth and scale, that's not just your weekly newsletter, right? That is really a much more robust infrastructure, in terms of the communications, you need to be creating automations you need to be creating journeys based on donor acquisition, right, you need to be really responsive in terms of following up with people, every time you do follow up with people, there should be another action to lead them to the next step. You know, if you see that people are taking certain actions on your website, like all of that, it's it becomes a thing because you're setting it up. And then you need to constantly update it, constantly cultivate it, and then guess what things break, you got to go to the customer service, have your email provider, what happened, you got to troubleshoot, you know, you got to look at the analytics, the open rates for this email sock, we got to change that subject line, it's, it really is its own job once you get to a certain stage in an organization. The next one, I would say two is this one probably will be the hardest one to justify to whoever you're working with for hiring decisions. But I would say it's in my core, whatever, seven or eight, whatever we're up to now or as we're scaling. But that would be reporting and analytics, right? So absolutely crucial. If you're lucky, maybe you'll find somebody that is like also SEO PPC, Google savvy, right? Because this like this is a person that loves numbers, that loves data. Because what happens as you're doing all of these other things across marketing, yes, you can look in the individual platforms for the metrics, but it's very disjointed. It's much more complicated than most people think. And then various platforms have different attribution models. So sometimes it's like, okay, well, this says our metrics are this, but you can't be trusted because they have the seven day attribution, rather than like a direct click attribution. So you got to compare this data to Google Analytics, right? So when you have a solid Reporting Analytics person, that's the person that's looking all the numbers, so that everything else everybody's doing, they can package it up and say, Okay, here's where we're at, here's our web traffic, here's our bounce rate, here's your acquisition, here's our, you know, our email or social, when we did a thing to try to make those metrics better. Did it work? I think of it, I love to simplify things. And I think of it as like, green arrows up, red is good. That's good. You know, green?
Yeah, no, it's good red arrows down bad. You know, you gotta, you gotta do something. And then after you do it did the thing we did worked, right. And so if you're doing any of those other roles we mentioned, and you're, like, it's very time consuming. And the other thing is that person could do is like competitor research. Right? So having that. So looking at others in your landscape, what are they doing? Are we on par with them in these regards? Or are we not? So that's another one. And then I have two more if this around. So the other one that would need to happen at some point is the digital ads manager, right? So digital ads, like one does not just throw up an ad and like, Yay, it happens. This is the area that for me is the cause of the most frustration, because these ads platforms, they all work very differently. The way you need to build the audience. They always are like full of notifications, or the ads not running, you did all the things right. And it's just not running, why they don't tell you why you just need to like, try again, somehow, you know, and you always need to be testing different messaging, right and the content and the way that you do digital advertising and Facebook versus Twitter versus LinkedIn versus Tik Tok, the content is different. The audiences are different. You need to constantly be a be testing the visuals, the messaging, and checking your ROI. And by the way that other people on the team have already ideally made sure that whatever is the landing page that those ads are driving to, has been optimized first, right. That's why this is in my second layer. If you didn't do the first part of having a conversion friendly landing page, then the ads that you're creating are going to be a waste of money because you're going to be losing traffic by not like shepherding them. And then the last thing I would say as you grow so if you have all of this, the next thing is really an organic evolution and you're going to know what you need. So some examples could be PR, right? So PR definitely it's one of the most unpredictable areas of communications you need the constant hustle with. You just never know what the results are, but you need to be continuously pitching or something like an event manager, let's say you're nonprofit, and you do volunteer events, and you want to do more of that you need someone to manage that. Or it could be partnerships, right. So now you're big you can do collabs. With influencers with brands like that partnership, management also can be its own role. So if you start with those core four, and then you're kind of expanding and building and the person coming in, is directly connected to that thing that they're doing and how it helps to amplify and build upon the core foundation that you're creating.
Hey, friends, this episode is presented by Virtuous and they just happened to be one of our favorite companies. Let me tell you why. You know, we believe everyone matters. And we've witnessed the greatest philanthropic movements happen when you see and activate donors at every level. And here's the thing, Virtuous created a fundraising platform to help you do just that. It's much more than nonprofit CRM. Virtuous is committed to helping charities reimagine generosity through responsive fundraising, which is simply putting the donor at the center of fundraising, growing giving through personalized donor journeys, and by helping you respond to the needs of every individual. We love it because this approach builds trust and loyalty through personalized engagement. So Mike Virtuous may be a fit for your organization, learn more today@virtuous.org or follow the link in our show notes.
Hey, friends, are you ready to take your digital engagement to the next level to kind of feel stuck about where to start? Let us introduce you to Feathr. Feathr is an amazing tech startup focused on making nonprofit outreach more impactful by connecting you to your audience wherever they are online, from fundraising to program awareness, they've got you covered. And rather than telling you we just wanted to show you for years, the Humane Society of North Central Florida has participated in a local online giving day called the amazing give. It's a competitive landscape for donations. So in 2021, the Humane Society knew they needed to stand out in order to maximize donations for $300 in ad spend their retargeting ads brought 119 visitors to their amazing gift donation page and generated nearly $6,000 in donations in just one day. With Feathr a small amount of ad spend can go a long way, learn more about their solutions for nonprofits at feathr.co. That's Feathr without the last e dot co. Now let's get back to this amazing conversation.
Okay, you got in my head with all the beautiful nature building toward this, you know, and I keep having like circle of life playing in my head, let me just be completely honest. But I think because there's something to the fact as you talk about roles, and I know, just from knowing you your priority on well being as like a human, and just you're being in touch with nature to is just getting people in roles that they know what to do, that they're uniquely gifted and skilled at or you know, kind of qualified to step in and learn. I just think that this is how organizations come alive that lets you grow to scale, you know, and that is like, really excites me because I can just see it. But I also think people listening today are going to we have a lot of people that are in small nonprofits and could be overwhelmed have just all the things in front of them. And we do want to prioritize mental health and well being. So when you're in a smaller, confined situation, and you don't have the budget to have this kind of team, where do you start dying? I mean, how do you kind of build the terrarium instead of the forest? You know, like that can sit.
Very good analogy there.
I would say, you know, that's where coming back to that initial assessment is where you need to say, Okay, if my resources are smaller, we can't do this yet, you know, or it's like, yeah, what are the sequence, right or so you can either go deep on one of those areas, or you can go wide, but know that you're, you're going to be limited in terms of how much that area of marketing is going to work for you. So I think that's where having that assessment, and you're also always connecting with the leadership team, you know, because that is kind of in conjunction with that. Sometimes CEOs or founders want certain things and you're like, well, all right, that's what we're gonna focus on. And, and I'm pretty good with being like, yeah, I believe in you. I'm gonna see how we can make this happen. And so sometimes, yeah, you scale it down, right? So maybe you're not building that robust email infrastructure, that down the line could create a lot of revenue. But at the very least, you've got your weekly newsletter, you're starting to work on some trigger based automations. You're chipping away at it a little bit every week, you know, and then also, yeah, remembering your self care and not letting yourself burnout or your team burnout and just kind of knowing what are the resources, right, so if you're a little tree in a forest and you just have a little bit of sunlight, you're not going to grow as fast as a tree that has full sunlight, you know, and and that's okay too, right? So I think it's just about not letting yourself get overwhelmed, staying calm, staying focused, doing things to cultivate focus outside of work actually help to inform these strategies and how you're implementing the these with whatever size team you have.
Oh, my gosh, I need you to double click on that. I mean, this is this is where we're transferring into speak to us as people because we need this, you know, moment. But how do you cultivate focus and kind of outside of the walls for you, personally, I'd love to hear it.
You can't see this. But all around me, I am surrounded by plants. So I am a huge plant lover, I need plants indoors constantly everywhere. So it's just a little thing. But I have a jungle in my office right now. Right. And so I get up, I spray my plants, I just like look at them, they're here all around me, I also have a little Buddha water fountain on my desk like a little one. And it just has the subtle running water. I also have a yoga mat and a mini trampoline. So right there. So in between meetings, when I'm like I've been sitting too long, I get up and like hyper jump for 20 seconds and just get the energy flowing. So one of the things that I do is literally my workspace, the space that I'm in doing all of this, I create it into something beautiful, something soul satisfying, something that feels like a healthy oasis in my workspace. And then of course outside of work. I'm so grateful to live in a very beautiful area, I live in Western Massachusetts, in the Pioneer Valley, I have access to a forest any time. And so I just won't go in that forest, anytime my kids are away, and I actually have some me time, I will just go sit in the forest and just sit, I'll bring a cup of tea with me, I'll bring a journal, I'll just listen to the birds and just like, let my soul settle. And all of those things combined to then when I'm on and I'm working, I'm able to hyper focus, because I have all of that balance. I mean, I'm trying I'm probably it sounds like I got this all figured out guys. In reality, it's much more of a jump. And it's definitely there's much more chaos, I have two little boys who are, you know, very energetic, and all of that, and a big dog and you know, a house to clean and all of that. But I think whenever we can find these moments for ourselves, in terms of the environment that we create, within and around us, all of that really contributes to how productive and happy we can be while we're working.
I want to just like transition a little bit. And I want to talk about the importance of team building to support an overall marketing strategy for the organization. Because I think that a lot of people are just starting to get woke to the fact that marketing is not just this thing that wealthy organizations have, you know, to try some things out, it is absolutely essential right now in this new wave of digital connections. So talk to us about what leaders can be doing to start this team development, and how people can pour into the marketing strategy as an organization.
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, team is everything. Right? So I think that there's definitely misconceptions out there around marketing that things can be automated, right? And I'm a huge believer in automation, the sequencing, a B testing, but all of that happens through people, right, it is people doing all of those things. So, you know, when I think about team building, I also think about empowerment, how do you, you know, create that sense of confidence, and create the environment for people to do their best work? Right? I think that that's a question that any leader and CEO should be asking themselves as the head of an overall organization, but also any department leader and manager, you know, I really approach this as a mentor, you know, I am very inclusive, I have a big lean mentality, you know, try not to be hierarchical, you know, sometimes, yes, you need to have some structures, who reports to who all of those practical things, but if you approach it all, from the perspective of a team, and having a sense of clarity, and having a sense of you know, good ideas don't just come from the top right, good ideas come from anywhere. So as a leader, you know, having that level of inclusivity you know, what do you guys think we should do? Or how do you think this came out? Or what's something we haven't tried before? Like every you know, everyone can participate in that conversation. And I think as a leader, some of the superimpose Certain things that needs to be in place is clarity of direction, right? What do we need to do? And why do we need to do it? Because if you are disjointed between the leadership and various teams, you're gonna have a lot of busy work and a lot of inefficiencies, and a lot of waste created waste of content waste of time, because it didn't hit the mark. Right? So having that clarity of, what are we doing? Why are we doing it and having everyone kind of participate and be involved in that, I think is absolutely vital. You know, for me, as a leader, it's also about walking the talk. You know, I think one of the biggest gaps that I've seen in organizations is that between vision and execution, right, and so if you're a leader who is right there in it with your team, right, like being right there with them in terms of doing the work, having a connection with them, not just being kind of up there, just directing, but sort of saying, well, here's why this is awesome, and why this is exactly what we need to be doing. And why will this doesn't make sense if the audience we're trying to reach is, you know, millennial donors or, or Gen Z donors or whatever, then this, this context of this communication doesn't make sense, right. And so creating kind of those teachable moments, but also showing your expertise and bringing people right along with you. I think there's all of these kinds of things. And one other thing I'll mention that I think is really important, is creating a community of future leaders in the team that you're creating. So for example, one of the ways that I do that is, for people that are more junior on the team, I make sure that they have the opportunity to present things to the whole team, not in a forced way, if you don't want to do it, that's fine. But creating those opportunities, right, so let's say we're doing a marketing presentation about what our plans are for q2, q3, right to the whole organization, I would always make sure that everyone on my team, I mean, it depends on how big the team is, can present something. So it's not just like the leader of the team, that's kind of presenting everything, but I will kick it off to set the tone, or I'll close it out. But I'll say, okay, you can, you know, you talk for 1520 minutes about this thing, because this thing that you're working on is really important. And you are an owner of that. And we want for you to feel seen as someone in the organization that's doing that, and that helps cultivate future leaders, it helps coach cultivate a sense of confidence in that person, it helps develop their expertise. And the more an organization can develop expertise within the team, while also creating a positive place to work, those people are going to stay, you know, those skill sets are going to continue to serve your organization, you're going to have more continuity, less turnover, you're going to have more of a sense of engagement. And I think everyone listening here, you know, we are all working in some kind of mission driven, whether it's a nonprofit, or for profit company, right? So you already have something for you, in that the staff, the people that are involved are already so energized, they're there because they want to do good, they have this fire in their belly, and whatever their skill is, you know, email, social media, whatever, you have that working for you. So the more that you can just as a leader, nurture that, you know, you're here's a little water, here's a little sunlight, here's an opportunity, here's an invitation, what do you think all of those things I think, helped to elevate people, and just creates this sense of, we're really doing something together, I always say we even if like I did 95% of something and somebody did 5%, I would say we did this together good, you know, because that really helps. Because when we because otherwise it would have been 95% of a good thing. And that's just not you know, like, we're all kind of part of this internal team community. And in my view, the more that you can grow that and include people and also create synergy between departments between individuals, the way that I would go marketing team is also making sure, okay, here's what we need to do. We may be in a meeting together and say, Okay, let's make sure in the next week, like we're prioritizing this email sequence, or this landing page that we need to update. here's the here's the vibe and the feel and the objectives that we have you guys connect separately now and figure this out. And I'll take a look at the v1 draft and give you some feedback. Right so encouraging synergies and connections between people really strengthens how the work is done, it empowers them in their own way. And ultimately it creates really great work and have a high level of quality standard.
You just thought you were coming for a marketing conversation today. Mental Health, yeah, team development, you've got capacity building, it's an ecosystem, it is you have really made it an ecosystem and shown that if we can follow some of this paths, it's gonna be more homogenous, you know, it's everybody is flow in flow together. And it's the harmony in this, I think is just going to lead to much healthier cultures and individuals, and that will benefit the mission. It's fantastic.
Yeah, I mean, I love the metaphor that you've created for us, because I think you know, as our value of everyone matters, and everything you say, it actually does put this power into everybody at every level, because signals are happening on the marketing front at every level on social and email on a landing page. And if they don't have a voice, to be able to lift that and have a voice to say, hey, this really crazy things happening, or I'm seeing this traction happening, you're missing out on all of this opportunity. And that's why I love the idea, this ecosystem, because everyone does matter. Everyone is critical in their own unique, beautiful way. So I mean, can I steal your nature metaphor for the rest of my life on? Connecting, please do? Well, I wonder, Dinah I feel like when people feel safe, psychologically safe, their propensity for risk, like is so much greater, you know, because you feel safe in that space. And I just wonder if you'd speak for a minute of just taking risks in the space of trying things and how you really empower people to do that?
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that's why I love marketing, you know, and Becky, you said it, it's an art and a science, right? So you really need to, like find that balance of both. And that's where risk comes in, I think once you kind of have some of the foundations going, right. So you've got to have your optimized landing pages, right, the content has to look good, you've got to have some of those basic communications in place in order to be able to build upon that, once you have that foundation laid, then, you know, you can really be playful. I'm a big believer in a B testing. I'm a big believer in creativity. And I think it's also not just about the ROI, right, because sometimes, you know, you can do, you know, there's just certain things that are easier to track, and other things that are not as easy to track, but their value, elevates the brand awareness of the organization, or trying something different is a little bit more playful and fun. So I have an example when I was at One Tree Planted. So usually, when you think of when it's the best time to plant a tree, most people would say it's the spring, right? That tends to be when there's a lot of energy for getting things in the ground. Guess what's probably a better time to plant a tree is actually early fall, right? So when I was at One Tree Planted, we were just having all these conversations about how in the spring, there's all this activity, you've got earthday, there's a lot of energy for for the nonprofit, that organization, the work, and then in the fall, not so much, right. And so we want to educate people about the tree planting at that time of year. Because just to geek out on the side for a moment, when you plant trees in the spring, it is a good time. But what comes right after the spring, it's summer, it's drought, it's more heat, and can be limiting, you know, for the trees in terms of excess water, when you plant in the fall. After that is the winter, the tree goes dormant, and there's much more access to water, it goes dormant, it comes back in the following spring where there's a lot more water. So then that tree is much more like ready to grow and be healthy and have root development development. So what we did was we were literally in in a meeting on the One Tree Planted team, I can't take credit for this. This was our founder, Matt Hill at the time had this great idea. We were like people don't know that you should plant trees in the spring. And also from a marketing perspective, we were having a ton of energy on the marketing side in the spring and not so much in the fall. So we were like we need to do something in the fall that's going to generate that energy and educate people. So he was like, What about just a holiday? Like, let's just make up a holiday plant the tree day. We it just happened in that room? We're like, Okay, can we just do that who just make up a
high you could do it your market or whatever?
Exactly. When should it be when you know, and then we were like, well, when are there not too many other things happening? end of September, September 28. Okay, so plan to tree days the thing on September 28. And so basically what that allowed us to do was number one, it's just fun when tree planted was already doing events in the spring. So now we were able to do something that's really fun and for the community because it's when you're volunteering, it's all about come out and plant trees close to home, right so it helps to build community of nature lovers in their own neighborhoods, right. So that is always a wonderful thing to do. Number two, from a marketing perspective, it gave us a ton line and a reason to talk about this to have more education like you don't have to donate to us. But if you're in an area where you can plant trees, this certainly is a very good time to do that. And so, you know, the result of that was we had this wonderful holiday, we had a ton of people coming out a ton of social media activity in the fall, you know, so there were all of these cascading benefits as a result of this, but I'll tell you this, it costs a ton of money we lost financially speaking, it was a loss, because the funding model of the nonprofit is $1, one tree planted. And when you're doing community events, it's more than $1. Like the $1 is more bigger scaled projects, when you're planting in urban neighborhoods, those trees can cost anywhere from $20 to hundreds of dollars, depending on the size. So we didn't have a way that donors would contribute to this, the funding for this came out of marketing budget. But the result was a lot of community building brand awareness for the organization, a ton of social activity, it was a risk, we didn't know if it would work, we made up a holiday, we're like, let's just see what happens, you know, but the result was wonderful. And so I think that that's a great example of thinking outside the box, the whole team rally to make this thing work. And the overall long term long term value was something much bigger and more important than the short term costs that were a little bit of a loss, you know, so you got to think big picture like that.
I mean, that's just a growth mindset tip and hack that is just so powerful in that story. And for anyone that's, that's getting pushback from their ED or their leader saying we need to see a one to one or return on this return is not just financial. And I think that's the bigger thing that that we're starting to learn now. It's, it's exactly what you've just said, the social proof, the engagement, the connection, the awareness, there are so many things. And look, I mean, I spent my life in PR before I jumped into this, and it's like, some of those things are incredibly hard to track. But if you really leaned in to building organic community, that is the way to go. And that is how you have to try and innovate and fail forward. And thank you for bringing up One Tree Planted. Confession, I have such a philanthropic marketing crush on them. Guys, please go to their site, onetreeplanted.org. The way they storytell, the way they engage, the photography, the words it's like $1, one tree, one planet, we plant trees together, we're planning a forest, like who does not want to be a part of that? And I just think it was a great example. And I just think about the the mosaic of your life Diana, and you've had so many experiences, Jon called it just a winding road. And I'm just so glad to know you. I'm so glad to like really know your soul and your heart like in this conversation. And we would love to just hear a story of a time that philanthropy, I want to even throw out nature, like when you've been transformed in a moment that really changed your life. Talk to us about that.
Get ready. Hope you have your Kleenex ready. So yeah, there was a very profound moment for me. So when I first started working with when she planted and by the way, I'm with Pledge now, I'm pretty new to that team that worked with One Tree Planted for five years. And that started off as a side hustle. I was working for another company at the time focused on emotional intelligence and leadership. And I started freelancing on the side for this nonprofit. And that was beginning of January 2017. And by the way, that whole thing happened. This is a side note to my big story, but I just realized it's important to is the way that I connected with One Tree Planted, which created a whole wonderful career path for me was that I was doing a birthday fundraiser, it was going to be my birthday in January. I was like, I don't want anything I just want to birth you know, I just want to do something good. Have a fundraiser, what do I want to do? I want to plant some trees. And so I was like, I need an organization to plant trees with. I found One Tree Planted and connected with the founder because I was like I'm gonna fundraise for you for my birthday. But I don't like your fundraising platform. I'm gonna use another one. And also I see some things on your website I just recommend updating. So that kind of just turned into a freelance project.
I adore you.
And so I was just and I had another job and I was kind of on the side with One Tree Planted. And because spring was coming up, it was going to be Earth Day. I was invited to come to Colorado for a tree planting event. At Colorado has had a ton of forest fires lots of deforestation due to several things. One is forest fires, another is insect infestations. But so I say yes, of course, I'd had never been to Colorado. So I get there. And we were going to do a reforestation project in the Four Mile Canyon area that had suffered significant wildfires a few years before. And nature was not recovering on its own. One of the things you look for in restoration projects is is nature recovering on its own? Or do we need to come in and do something to kind of help catalyze that process? So I had because I live on the east coast, I had never been to a forest fire damaged area before. And so we're get there we are getting to where the burn scar is. And it's like this long and winding area. So first, I kind of just see, like dried brushy grass along the way. And I'm like, okay, okay, when are we gonna get there, you know, to this mountain. And then we kind of turn a bend. And for the first time, I see this Vista, I see basically the full view of the fire damage for acres and acres and acres. And it is just devastating. It is brown and black. It looks like nature died there. It looks like a great injustice had occurred there. And I and I'm I'm holding my chest right now, because I remember the feeling that I had just seeing that for the first time. It was literally like, it hit me, you know, just seeing that level of devastation. But the story gets better. So you know. So after I pick up my jaw off the floor, I'm with a group of people I have a job to do here. We get there. And then we have our shovels. We have our saplings, we have water, we have all the supplies, and then what I did for the whole rest of that day and this was really my first experience planting trees. I was a newbie at this at the time. And then we planted trees all day. And it was very hilly terrain. There were all of all this dead wood. And so I was helping to coordinate volunteers. I was getting trees in the ground, I was delivering things to people. And guess what I saw as I got closer to that environment, it was doing that work. I saw it number one Poop. Poop is a very good sign...
Yeah, that is great!
...of an ecosystem in recovery. I saw bluebirds Colorado bluebirds very beautiful. So it's like there's just a dead tree and this view and nothing and nothing else, right and this beautiful little bluebird, right, so as I got closer, my initial shock and devastation was then followed by hope, and seeing the recovery and realizing that despite what happened here, and some ecosystems are fire prone, right, we just need to kind of understand fire ecology also. But what followed was hope for me and a feeling of, I'm here to do something, I'm actually here with this amazing group of people to now plant trees to now help this ecosystem recovering, which is already showing natural signs of recovery. And for me, that was, that's it like, this is the work I need to do. And then eventually, I joined the organization full time. And that was just so transformational for me. And I think one reason for that is number one, I saw the real impact of what the mission or the organization was like why this is important. And I immediately had the tangible hands hands on, like my body was so tired that day. It's such hard work, you know, and just I think that that visceral experience of that really just connected me with all of the other tree planters out there. And just kind of being truly connected with something that you're passionate about and, and making it better and seeing the signs of no matter how awful something could be. If you are there with a passionate, dedicated group of people, you can make it better. You just have to pick up your shovel pick up a pen, pick up a dish, you know, whatever that is in the organization that you're with, like just do it just get started and do it and people will join you and that situation will get better.
Great on this organization that created that infrastructure to create that moment - experience
You go deeper you you build believers when you do things like that and I think you are such an incredible example of not not just taking your donation for your birthday party and really getting your hands dirty like we're taking the gardening gloves off. You are getting in there and getting your hands dirty. And to that point, I love that you said I saw it. You know when our people can touch, see, taste what hear whatever it is when there's a sensory experience there. It shifts the way you look at something, the way you feel about something. And I just think that is such a great story. And look at this believer, John, she went and worked for the organization that is like, like building that endorsement ever. So love that.
Oh my gosh Diana, okay, we don't want to ask this question. You know what's coming, we got to round this out with a one good thing you've given us so much, what's a mantra, a life hack? What's something you would share with the community?
Okay, I have two, if that's okay?
Yeah, that's breaking the rules, but you do it.
And these are my two sticky notes. I have two sticky notes that are in my workspace that help to anchor me and bring me down to earth. And they are what I need to know every single day no matter what I'm doing. So one of them is this amazing quote by author and poet Jane Hirshfield. And this is basically the best summary of Buddhism that you'll ever hear. But it's also a mantra for life and everything that you need to know as well as for marketing distinctly. So and that quote is, Everything changes. Everything is connected. Pay attention. This applies to marketing. It applies to business, it applies to life. It's just so powerful. And also a great example from the marketing perspective of taking something huge, like a many 1000s year old wisdom, tradition, and synthesizing it onto this teeny, tiny little sticky note, right? Like, that's good marketing. Way to go Jane Hirshfield, right, so I have that. And then the other one is just kind of touching back on. We are all so passionate and working so hard, but we also need to attend to our inner lives. And this quote is, one of nature's basic principles is to work only under conditions that are favorable to life. Right. So if your work feels that it is not favorable to life, then perhaps reevaluate your choices. You know, and just make sure that that that is a grounding principle. And that comes from biomimicry, which I'll just leave you with this Google rabbit hole to go down on biomimicry is all about looking at Nature's systems and design and applying it to other things like human human elements that we create. So that quote came from from a biomimicry book,
I just think you think, feel and live at a different level. And I think what I'm feeling and I feel pretty confident John and Julie are feeling it too is this sense of peace as we're having this conversation, you bring peace into a conversation, and I and I'm just reflecting that I don't feel like I had a lot of moments in peace and my nonprofit career. It's loud. It's a noisy space. It's a very, very busy space. But man, if we can slow down and pay attention, I just think something very magical can shift not only within us, but in everything that we touch. And that is what I value so much about you as a human and as a dear colleague and friend. So Diana, like, tell us how people can connect with you. How can they connect with plug with Pledge, we got to give a shout out to James and share it and we love our Pledge family. Like tell us all the details where people could connect with you?
Absolutely, you can check out Pledge at pledge.to Awesome organizations supporting nonprofits no matter what you do through amazing fundraising technology. That was one reason why I was ready for a shift. I was like, what else can I do? What other causes can I support? So Pledge allows me to do that while supporting many nonprofits. You can find me on LinkedIn, Diana Chaplin. And if you want more plants and nature and the occasional books and Kid pics, then you can find me on Instagram at @DianaChaplinn with two ends at the end because no one was already taken.
Second one is for nature. I just think it was meant to be oh my god.
I love that. Thank you. There it is.
Thank you Diana likes so much to process so such full hearts over here. Appreciate you.
Thank you guys so much. It's been an amazing conversation. Thank you guys for all that you do. Like I said, I love the podcast get so much value and wisdom from you guys. So it's been an absolute pleasure to be here.
two way street rootin for your friend.
Hey, friends. Thanks so much for being here. Did you know we create a landing page for each podcast episode with helpful links, freebies and even shareable graphics. Be sure to check it out at the link in this episode's description. You probably hear it in our voices but we love connecting you with the most innovative people to help you achieve more for your mission than ever before. We'd love for you to join our good community. It's free and you can think of it as the after party to each podcast episode. You can sign up today at we are for good.com/hello. One more thing If you loved what you heard today, would you mind leaving us a podcast rating and review? It means the world to us and your support helps more people find our community. Thanks friends. I'm our producer Julie Confer and our theme song is Sunray by Remy Borsboom.
