It's Time to Decide. How to Reimagine Nonprofit Impact - Seth Godin

3:01PM Sep 5, 2023

Speakers:

Becky Endicott

Jonathan McCoy

Seth Godin

Keywords:

people

seth

nonprofits

community

moment

talk

love

small

put

marketing

money

fundraising

work

status

seth godin

conversation

day

impact

friend

started

Hey, I'm John.

And I'm Becky.

And this is the We Are For Good podcast.

Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.

We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an Impact Uprising.

So welcome to the good community, where Nonprofit Professionals, philanthropist world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.

So let's get started. Becky, can you believe it's here?

Oh, my gosh, Season Eight, y'all. And we are shooting straight out of the gate with an ungettable get Oh, we're so glad that you guys are here.

Oh my gosh, I know we're straight honored to share this impactful conversation that we had with a humanizing marketing legend Seth Godin over at Community boost nonprofit marketing summit alongside 25,000 changemakers. So if you're looking for an aspirational glimpse into the future of work and possibilities, this is it, my friends,

oh, that nonprofit marketing summit was on fire. And if you're someone who's interested in hearing any of the 75 Plus high impact sessions that were kind of dropped at Community boost, I'm talking Donald Miller, I'm talking Seth Godin, they had Misty Copeland, all of it, grab your VIP pass now for an all access Replay at nonprofit marketing summit.org. And friends buckle up because this conversation with Seth is epic. And as John said, so aspirational. So we hope you enjoy this conversation as much as we did.

We're here to talk to the man, the myth, the legend, Seth Godin today, and I can't wait because I know he's not just touched our lives. He's touched so many of you that have reached out to us about today. And that's in the chat. So please jump in there with your questions we want to hear from you. And I gotta give a little bit of background on Seth. His impact has not just been in being a global best seller. In being somebody that has impacted millions of people. You take the word Seth and Google, what are you gonna get, you're gonna get a blog. You know, I mean, that is one of the most prolific websites on the planet. But he has been a mentor to us, even though we just met him in the greenroom, he has helped to shape how we think about the world, how to dream bigger. And I just am so delighted that we can share hope for the sector and hope for our marketing, in the messaging that Seth is gonna walk into this room for. So he's going to help us reimagine a lot of these things. We're going to plug this new book, The Song of significance, I know you can multitask. So go ahead and open up that cart, add that to your queue, because we need to reimagine the way we work. And Seth is here to help us do that today. And so with sincere honor, it is such a privilege to have Seth Godin in the house. Seth, can you tell we're a little excited to be chatting with you today.

Not as excited as I am, the two of you are such mentioned is such a delight to work with you seeing the people in the chat Andy and the Torah and people that I've worked with various nonprofits, the work everyone's doing. I'm just a little overwhelmed.

Thank you for having us. Yeah, I mean, so much gratitude. I mean, that so many of us know about your work and have been a follower of your work. But I wonder if you would take us back to little Seth growing up, I mean, connect the dots for us? Where did you come from? What were some of those formative moments that really defined how you show up in the world today, as we get started? Well, I

gotta say, first, this is a bit of a trap. And the reason it's a trap is that everyone's had a different upbringing. And it's easy to point to someone who's done somebody say, Well, that's because this happened, because they had they won the privilege parenting lottery, or they lost this, and therefore they had to overcome, everyone's got a different thing. I will tell you that my dad was the volunteer head of the United Way, that in Buffalo, where I grew up, that my mom was the first woman on the board of the art museum, that it was normal for us to have 15 or 20 refugees over for dinner, that I just grew up, understanding that if you had the chance to make a difference you did. And I remember my parents every single day.

Wow, I think that question is always so poignant. And we really like to start conversations there. Because it's a question for all of you listening right now. Like, where did you come from? What were those formative experiences that really awakened your heart that created this connection for you to want to go and do good in the world. And I feel like we're all gathered here at this summit, because we're seeking to create that radical impact. And we're watching what's happening in the world right now. And we see how noisy of a space it is, and how negative space it is. But however, we're also seeing the content that's cutting through the noise is authentic, it's vulnerable, and it's wholly steeped in humanity. So my question for you, Seth, is we have all these changemakers out here in the audience today. What would you suggest to all of them in terms of how this is the moment for nonprofits for Social Enterprise to really capitalize on the fact that people are seeking more meaning in their lives right now, how do we harness that for good in our own movements?

What a great place to start. Let's go a couple of steps back. Why do nonprofits get the tax break that they get? Why are nonprofits treated differently. And my thesis is, it's because there's an important problem to be solved. And we don't know how to solve it yet. That if we knew how to solve it, the problem would be gone, that you have signed up to do work to make a change happen, that what you make, it's not enough money. But what you make is a difference, what you make is change. And what you make is decisions. And if we approach this work, as if you're on the widget factory line, if we approach this work, as please tell me the best practices and the rules of thumb, and I'll just do the same thing over and over and over again, you're acting like we already know the solution. Like we know how to make a slinky, we know how to make a thing of Silly Putty, but we don't know how to solve the problem your nonprofit is trying to solve. And so the work is to embrace the fact that you are now trusted to explore on the frontier, you are trusted to show up as the person you are to do things that might not work in service of making something better. And if you signed up to be in this industry, because it's an industry and because it's a cynic, you're in because you get to talk about it over dinner, and people hold you in esteem, but you don't want to take anything that feels risky. Any of those choices, you're going to be frustrated every day. This is the moment the best moment there has ever been to be in this space, because the cost of being wrong is tiny. And the benefit of showing up as a person making a connection. turning on lights is huge.

How good was that? I don't think so. Dropping the popper.

Okay, I feel like this is the perfect segue because you know, I've already alluded to your book that I feel like is this manifesto. For this moment that work has broken, you spoken already about industrialism, and kind of how you keep trying to refine the widgets, and we're all cogs in that machine. But I want you to take us back to kind of one of the surveys that inform this work, you asked 10,000 People across 90 countries to describe the conditions of the best jobs I ever had. What did you find?

Well, like the cool thing is, if you ask somebody, what's the best job you ever had? Everyone has an answer. It's like, what was your first date? Everyone has an answer. And in fact, more detail comes out about the job. So we know what makes it the best job you ever had, you already decided that. So I gave people 14 choices. I picked the three that most bosses would pick, I didn't get fired, I got to tell people what to do, I got paid a lot, right? That if you are looking for a job or thinking of leaving a job, those are the three things the boss rolls up. But then I picked a whole bunch of other things. And what I found is that across the entire world, the same answers came in far and away the biggest answers were I accomplished more than I thought I could. I worked with people who I respected and who respected me. And I was proud of the work I did. Well that is what this work can be if you let it be that the thing that it comes with though, is you have more agency more freedom than you believe that you want to acknowledge. And you're afraid to use that freedom, that you'd rather follow a script that you're setting yourself up to be replaced by an AI, that you're churning it out copying the other stuff, listening to the consultants, when in fact, that's not making it the best job you ever had. That's just phoning it in. And what we need to do is not seek more authority, but take more responsibility.

Okay, I've got to like hit pause, because we need to dig into that just a little bit. Because I think you're extending an opportunity to this sector. And it's one that I think you're right is like ripe for the taking right now. And it's going beyond being this impact professional or this cog. And it's stepping into this role of being a change agent. And I think there's immense power and responsibility in it. But I have to say we've really dove into this in our community. And on the back end, the joy and the fulfillment that comes from that. And I've heard from a lot of you out in this community, right? And in this week about how tired you are, how burned out you are how much you are striving to find that original joy. And I really think that this there is something to this. And John, we had a conversation on our podcast with a really big philanthropist who had given you know, 10s of millions of dollars and when we asked him what his definition of success was and I love the juxtaposition of SAS book with this and he said and this is As Ross McKnight, he said, Success is not important. Success is defined by what you do for yourself. Significance is what you do for others. And we can all be significant. And so I just can't help but see those parallels and the opportunity sitting before us now. And I just wonder, Seth, like, how can nonprofits step into that significance? How can the one independent voice the person who is the Chief everything officer right now, because we're understanding that so many nonprofit, they're limited in resources in time they're doing the marketing, they're doing the donor relations, some of them or executive directors, talk about how they should be cultivating the song of significance within themselves, within their teams? How does that ripple into their believers and into their community?

So the indoctrination is real, the indoctrination started when we were three years old, not just about caste and the things that lead to social injustice, but the indoctrination of obedience. And how do I get an A will this be on the test? How do I get picked? And that is what the industrial system needed people to do to be compliant cogs. So, in your question, subconsciously, you buried that because you said, What can nonprofits do? There's no such thing as a nonprofit, there's just a group of people who are connected to each other with a structure, right? It's, it's me person, not calling you I'm so good. How can a person make it and so I'm gonna give you some really specific tiny examples. My friend Scott Harrison has raised a quarter of a billion dollars in charity water. He did that in a way that was not in anybody's playbook. When he started. My friend, Jacqueline Novogratz has raised almost a quarter of a billion dollars for the Acumen Fund acumen. How did she do that she did it in a way that everyone said wasn't going to work. Now those two people are in charge. But let's think about someone who isn't in charge. So I got an email, I don't mind calling them out by the New York Public Library, of which I've been a member for a very long time, few weeks ago. And this subject lines through made it sound like my library card was about to be suspended. And as I read it formatted in that standard fundraising HTML thing. It became clear that that wasn't what was actually being discussed. It was would I pay some money to join this thing to support the library, and it was signed by somebody who works somewhere, they're deep in this institution. So I sent her a note. And I said, this is five things I might have tried to do a little bit differently. But the problem is when you say, we are this institution, and I have 40,000 people on my email list, and I got this consultant, and I need to make my yield numbers go up, because I'm under all this pressure of and this and this and this. Well, of course, you're going to do that. But what you could do is you could realize that you could write 30 emails a day by hand, and figure out when you write to someone, one person at a time, and tell them your story and what you're up to and see them. And they feel seen, you could figure out what might work when you multiply it times 10,000. Because I guarantee you that treating 10,000 People like they're all the same. It's not nearly as effective. In the old days with direct mail, you had no choice. But with email, that's the way it's supposed to be that if we can see each other, we have a chance to change them. Now, if this person did it, and it failed, she could go to her boss and say 50 People didn't work, take responsibility. And if it succeeded, she could go to her boss and say, you want to take credit for this one, because then we get to do it again. And again, and again. And so the shift that I'm talking about as a marketer, is one that says we have all these dials and all these tools. And instead of doing it in a deniable way, how do we do it in a personal way? But it's a bigger thing when we talk about our teams, right? And I'm watching things fly by in the chat. What's the deal with our teams? Did we sign up to get real? Or let's not play? Are we in an organization where we criticize the work but never the worker? Do we have a mindset that says what we are here to do is find a new way to solve the problem acknowledging that some of the things we're going to do aren't going to work, or are we here to just run around like chickens with their head cut off in crisis mode, doing what we did yesterday, but faster and cheaper. And having the honest conversation. That is the first step.

Okay. I mean, I love that you brought up Scott Harrison, because, you know, he came onto our show and schooled us in a moment. It was so great. It was a brilliant moment, because we said you know, what are you thinking about the trends that are happening across the sector? And he said, guys, I hate to disappoint you, but I spent 0% of my time thinking about the sector. And I think that's what you're speaking to is that there's a different playbook that no one's looking at. And even these one offs that don't really cost us anything to try. But it could really make the difference in finding a new believer for our mission. So I want to get a little tactical exempts I know people like want to start implementing this. So the marketing landscape has really evolved with the rise of social media, obviously, technology post COVID, what principles do you believe are true, regardless of the tools and platforms, and whatever Twitter's name today?

Okay, so I refuse to talk about that the last part of it.

You are people.

When you buy something, you are making a decision. And I think we all understand that we understand that if you go to Walmart, or wherever, and there's five kinds of pickles, a decision is about to be made. But I also think it's worth flipping it upside down and realize that every time we make a decision of any kind, we are buying something, because we are taking our time, we are spending our time we are making a commitment, and we are buying something. When we think about fundraising, it's essential to understand that the only reason the only reason someone donates $500 to your cause, is because it's worth $600. To them. It's a bargain. If it's not worth $600, for the feeling for the story for the status for the affiliation, then why would they do it? Everything nonprofits do when their fundraising is on sale, it's a bargain, you are doing someone a favor and opportunity opening a door for them, offering them something not hassling them and taking something from them. Because in a fairly free society, you don't have the power to do that. All you have the power to do is create the conditions for someone to make the decision that engaging with you spending this money to do get that story is a bargain. So that's why it's so hard, for example, for a college fundraiser to go to a millionaire or billionaire and say, I want you to put a $5 million, put your name on this dorm, because in their heads, like if I was a billionaire, I'd never spent $5 million a name on a door, because their story of money is you don't put $5 million into that kind of vanity project. But if you're a billionaire, that's like one of the only thrills you've got left today is this this status that you're going to buy, because you've already bought everything you can buy. And so what we get when we show up in social media, what we get, even when we're you know, flying by putting our links in the chat is a chance to create the conditions for other people to either see status, or affiliation, status is, this will move me up, this will make me feel better about myself or other people will feel better about me. And affiliation is I'm with the other people, people like us do things like this. So I don't care what the medium is. I haven't used Twitter or Facebook or LinkedIn actively for a very, very long time. Because I don't want to be the product. I'm happy to be the person who's a customer who's showing up to do their thing. And if other people spread my ideas online, that's for them to decide if I can give you something that you spread that makes your life better, you will spread it in whatever medium you choose. But saying oh Tuesday afternoons at three o'clock is the best time to do this kind of pitch. I'm not interested.

Seth is literally rejecting widgets, and I am here for it. And I actually agree with Jordanna dear friend hydro Danna, you know, with this quote of people like us do things like this. And we're all gathered in community. Right now we're all pulling towards something bigger. And it's making me think about, like how even the mindset shifts that we need to go through about how we look at our community. And you'll notice I didn't say donors that are we're looking at our community and we have a fourth core value that We Are For Good that we don't believe in the donor. We want to equip the believer because a believer is going to show up with way more than money, they're going to show up with story with network with sharing with social capital, with volunteering, they have so many assets to bring. And when we start looking at it that way. It just shifts the way that we interact and engage with community. And so I want to double click on community just a little bit because you've spoken about this idea of people like us do things like this, when you refer to community and I want to know what advice you would give to this community about how to build and nurture these authentic communities in a time such as this. How can they unpack their brand, and what is it going to unlock for them? that is currently closed.

Yeah. This is brilliant Bucky, and you're highlighting something really important, which is the smallest viable audience. There are so many important causes. And they are not unimportant. They're vital and urgent and they matter. And there's zero chance everyone in the world is going to care. So if it's not everyone, it's someone, how many someone's do you need? My guess is fewer than you think. Right? That 1000 people sending you $1,000 is a million dollars, that's 1000 People that on a rounding error is 0%. of the population of Chicago, right? That we're talking about a nod? Yeah. And that is so empowering. Because you get to say, people like us, these are the people like us, everybody else we're ignoring right now, these people, the people like us, this is who it's for. And what we know, is that folks who are fortunate enough to have a roof over their head, clean water and health care, they don't do anything that they need anymore. They do things that they want. When people go to a clothing store to buy clothes, they're not naked, they already have clothes on. Because they want new clothes, not because they need them. And what we want more than anything else is to belong, to be seen, to matter to lean into a problem where we think we can make at least a small contribution to solving whatever that thing is. And so when we can weave together a community and there's so many ways to do it. What do people wear to the Philharmonic? Why does it make the music sound different when you dress like that? Well, actually, yes, it does. It does. Because when we are sitting next to each other in the uniform, we've established that we are people like us. And when the albright knox, the museum in Buffalo started to do its evening events where they would invite a very select not elite, but select group of people to come. And just to a cocktail party. The people who walked into that room were surrounded by the same paintings they saw all the time. But it felt different, because they got status and affiliation in that same moment. And your job isn't to be a party planner. I hate galleries. I think they're a ridiculous waste of time and money.

But you heard it here, folks. Basically,

you are running a gala every day, a good kind, and efficient one. One that says, Am I in the right room? Are the people in this room seeing me? Am I seeing them? Am I part of something that matters that I will talk about to my kids years from now. And that is how Nathan Winograd built the no kill shelter movement right now in more than 500 cities since he started and hundreds of millions of dogs and cats haven't been killed because one person, he didn't save every dog and cat. He showed up to create the conditions for people who wanted to be part of that journey to go on. So back to your original point, Becky, you're the bus driver, you should announce where the bus is going. You should help people find a comfortable seat on the bus and then you should take them there. That's the

work. Yeah. And just like this open handedness, that money is probably the lowest common denominator of engagement. I mean, the things that you talked about the things that will tell our grandkids is not the stories of money. It's about the significant moments. It's making me think of the illustration you used about the community orchestra, I wonder if you would share kind of that dichotomy of a paid orchestra member with the community orchestra has been such a beautiful picture. So

our friend, Alan is in the community orchestra here. And we went to hear their performance. And the only person in the room who is paid was the conductor, and he was paid by the members of the orchestra. And it was beautiful to listen to. And you think about what motivates the violin player because violin can be a job. You can get paid to do that just down the street at the other orchestra. But this orchestra sounded beautiful, and people were paying to be in it. Yeah. And so when we think about that shift in mindset, all of your community is paying to be in the community. And the conductor is a paid staff. Right? What are they getting? When they make that choice? Well, for the people I saw in that room, it was the best part of their year, to be part of something to be playing Brahms in sync, surrounded by the others. Maybe you've never been to their house for dinner, but this is better than that. Because this is what it means to be alive.

Okay, John knows how much I love the symphony and all of the symphony talk is giving me life. And I want to create some space for the small nonprime off it and that is the large s of the sector right now we did a series on our podcasts called Small but mighty, thank you get better for the sponsorship. And we're focusing on small organizations for making a really massive impact. And I want you to sort of lift up for them and talk about the unique advantages of being a small organization with limited resources. And what are some opportunities they could seize today.

So if, if you've ever been on Kickstarter, you may have seen the hustle of how do we make our Kickstarter work, we only have two weeks left, it needs to be called kick finisher, not Kickstarter. Yes, I love it. If you spend nine months or a year, building, connecting, being part of a community, then when you actually launch your Kickstarter, it's easier gets funded in a day and a half, because you gave them the opportunity to show up. Well, this is part of the mindset of the small nonprofit, I'm lucky enough to work with the folks at the Greyston foundation that make the all the brownies and Ben and Jerry's. And thank you pioneered open hiring. And if they're going to send an email for a fundraising thing, if that's their act of raising money is not going to work, you don't get open because the people are sending it to trust them. But it's not going to work. Because it's an event, it's not a process, what they need is a process. So that by the time you get to the point where you're saying, today's the day, we really need to raise the money for our annual budget is going to go boom in one minute, because it's kick finishing. It's not kickstarting. And if you're a small nonprofit to three, four or five people in the room, and I'm lucky enough to work with some of those, what you end up with is the flexibility to look people in the eye, learn how it works with one people or three people or five people, and then do it again. And so part of the reason I don't do any consulting, is if you have a consultant show up and tell you what to do, it's not going to teach you what you need to learn. And what you need to learn is that this work you're doing is generous, not just generous to the victims of whatever plight you're trying to help. But it's generous to the people who were donating, because it's causing community to happen patiently. And with a human insight. And my interactions with the two of you have been the same way that sometimes I'll show up on a podcast or something. And there's a form and then there's this other thing, and I've never even engaged with folks, you're showing up as humans, and that's why people want to listen to you.

Okay, I got to share something cumin, like because it relates to this in a way I put this on a LinkedIn post earlier last week. But when I was 23, I was working at the science museum, Oklahoma, and I got and I want to know if anybody can relate to this in the chat. And I was tasked with writing my first direct mail piece, and I've never done it before. And I'm sitting there googling it. And it's the most uninspiring thing. And I'm literally looking at these examples saying is this what I'm supposed to put out to people translate to this and I'm following the script, in something in my gut at 23 is like this, this wouldn't do that. For me, this would not would not instigate me to want to activate. And so I think I just want to say to everybody out there, like your gut is telling you something, I always tell my daughters, there's a little woman sitting in your stomach. And when she tells you something's wrong, like listen to her. And it's like going against the grain and going in the road less traveled. And that is what I feel in this moment. And that is what I feel with what you're saying right now. And it's clearly getting me all amped up, because I'm in my pulpit, and I'm preaching, but it's like, I want everyone out there. To know that we are rooting for you. We are you're not alone in being this change agent and going against the grain. In fact, not only is it going to benefit your organization, but it's going to benefit your soul. It's going to benefit the human being that you are, and if we're brave enough, and we have the courageous mindset that we can do things differently. The rewards are so deeply rich. And if you need a community like Come find me I will hug you I'm the best mom hugger virtual mom hugger ever, but come and find your community and know that you can do this. Okay, stepping off my soapbox.

I love that. I love that. And now I got the flip side of the smallest viable audience is this. You're going to need to fire some of your donors. And the sooner you do this, the happier you will be. I'm talking about mostly your bigger donors. The status thing is real. We understand that we don't want to talk about it, but it's real, but there's good kinds of status and bad kinds of status, right? That I was in a bike accident years ago in Central Park in New York City. And I was going to hit somebody but instead I hit the pavement and scraped off some skin, I'm fine. But immediately this guy runs over and says, Can I help you? I'm a doctor. And then immediately someone else wants over, move them out of the way, say, can I help you have an emergency room doctor? Right? This was status on display, because they were good people, but they also loved lived for the ability to just show up on their run and say, Doctor, the point is, some people get status out of belittling the board, or belittling the fundraiser, some people get status by putting on a show to show that they're significantly more important than you. And one thing I hope people will take away from this is you deserve better than that. And it is completely okay to look somebody in the eye and say to them, it sounds like we're not serving your needs as much as we could. What do you need from this institution to be able to feel like you are part of what we are building together? And then don't talk again, and figure out whether or not they're always being late, always undercutting you, always nickel and diming, you, et cetera, et cetera, is worth it. Because in the set time and emotion that you save, my guess is you can find other people who are better members of the smallest viable audience you seek to serve.

Seth? I mean, thanks for saying that. I think the chat is exploding. For that discussion, that

permission almost, you know, that's powerful.

I mean, we've talked about trying stuff. That's the technical term we use for innovation, I mean, leaning into risk leaning into trying new approaches to things. And you're talking about winning donors. You know, I mean, I love to talk about the moment, whether it's a program, or that's that gala that we've already put on the chopping block, how do you know when to quit? And when to persist? If maybe you're not seeing those results? What's your friend?

Well, I should talk about Galus for a minute. galahs are fraught with social risk. And many, not all, but many people who work in senior levels, particularly of midsize nonprofits view that social risk is something that they can address by throwing a particularly specific kind of party. And it takes a lot of time from a lot of people. If your CEO is looking over the invitation for the gala, you know what I'm talking about? Yes. And canceling the gala is a really important step in the right direction, because it creates a hole. And it's a hole you need to fill with actually generative, productive, resilient, useful ways to serve your community as you serve the cause that you're trying to address. And if you're relying more and more on a gala, you're putting so much of this emotional energy into something that doesn't serve anybody. And I know I'm biased because I refuse to go to Dallas. But even the people who go to Dallas, complain about the fact that they have to go to Dallas because no one looks forward to them the way they used to. Because we've changed the way we interact. But I guess my point is, the main reason to quit stuff is to create a hole so that you will find new things to take its place. That's why you have to quit before you find the thing that will take its place. You know, I've been a book packager for many, many years. I used to make DVDs. I used to make games for online services. There are things I had to stop doing in order to be able to do the next thing. I haven't gotten on a plane to give a speech in two years. Well, yeah, I had to leave that hole in my life so I could build the next thing. And you need to take a hard look at what is actually yielding for your organization and yielding for you your career your day, and get rid of the 10% of the stuff that's causing you 80% of your agita.

Okay, so that's dropping the wisdom bombs. And we're starting to wind down a little bit. We know you all have questions, we're going to answer those in the lounge. But I really want to get back to humanity. And I want to get back to storytelling, because I think that is one of the great superpowers that nonprofits have right now is authentic storytelling. But I want to put Seth on the hotspot for this, because we love centering story in in our conversations and talking about the power of philanthropy. And I would love to know, a moment or a story from you, where philanthropy intersected in your life and it stayed with you and I wondered if you would share that story with our audience

I don't know if we have five hours.

We'll take it offline.

You know, I can I give you a couple short ones. I was in Kenya with acumen helping Western seed market their seeds to farmers in the fertile valley there. And I spent the day with Lucy Liu See is a millionaire under her bed. She has a cigar box with a million Kenyan group rubles. What are those called? dollars but not in it. And she has nine kids send them all to private school, she has tree farm and her farm was generating $3,000 a year in income, her next door neighbor was exactly the same plot of land was a subsistence farmer. And this happened because Western seed showed up, treated the customer with dignity and respect and offered them the chance to buy seeds that would change things. And when you see what happens when we invite people along, instead of just giving them something telling them that we're writing, they're wrong. It was usually inspirational. going back years before that, thinking about my dad's work at the United Way, and with a local theatre in Buffalo. Watching what happens when the community comes together, watching what happened, when my dad got ill, and seeing how people came together, humanity that we've come to this weird spot where we think the purpose of culture is to enable capitalism that we have to define what we do in terms of what money has make. No, it's the opposite. The purpose of capitalism is so we can have a culture, the purpose of everything we do is so we can have an interaction with Lucy, so we can build something in the community that helps people who need something right now. And whenever I feel like I'm stuck, I try to shift to a different mode, the mode of being generous, because the mode of being generous, helps us the same way a lifeguard doesn't hesitate. Before she jumps in the water to save somebody, there's someone drowning, you're right there. It doesn't matter if you're the most qualified lifeguard, whoever was. You are the lifeguard right here right now. Let's go do something that matters. And the people who are on this call are the ones who are spending their time when they could be watching Netflix instead. They're the ones who care. And there's someone drowning. There's a donor who's drowning, there's a person who seek to help who's drowning. What could we do differently, scarily differently, where we take responsibility? For me, that's what it means to be alive.

How do you not get hyped up? Like, is everyone here like ready to roll or we weren't ready to try and be scarily different scarily risk takers, I think the moment is here, it's just there for you to step out and take it. Thank you, Seth.

I think we all just need that remembrance of like, we get to sit in that sacred space of these moments. You know, we don't want to take that for granted. And Seth, as we wind up, we always want to ask, what's your one good thing? What is a piece of advice? What's a habit? What's a mantra, which is on your mind today? What's your one good thing today?

Every time I'm answering your question, I'm trying to think of my one thing, because, you know, that's the

question we most fear, honestly, when we ask people that will ask.

The shortest blog post I ever wrote is, you don't need more time, you just need to decide. And most people are in such a hurry on the internet, they didn't stop to think about what that means. Because they're in such a hurry, they're looking for the next thing they don't want to decide. And you already know enough, you already have enough, you already have the tool. whatever tool you're using is a fine tool. whatever platform you're on is a fine platform. Whatever board you have, it's a fine board. If you can't tolerate any of it, you should leave today, because there's somebody who needs you. But if you're going to stay, you don't need more time. You don't need more research, you don't need more learning, you simply need to decide. And the decision is will you take responsibility for a very small, generous act, serving the smallest viable audience in a way that you can learn something. And if you do that, and it works, tell everybody and then do it again. And if you do it and it doesn't work, tell the right people, so they won't make the same mistake and then do something else. But we're experimenters. We're scientists, and effective. Scientists don't say I'm afraid of experiments because it might not work. Effective. Scientists say the reason I'm here is to do experiments. And that is the reason your nonprofit is here. You haven't figured out the answer yet. We need the answer. We need community. We need connection. It's there for anybody who was willing to go find it.

So we're winding down. We have 20 seconds left, and I just want to say impact change makers. Let's decide. Let's decide to step forward as social scientists who are literally changing the world for good. We want to see you be a part of it. You are not alone. Seth, my gosh, thank you so much for your wisdom. Our hearts are so full. I feel fired up. Thank you so much for this just inspiring an elevated conversation.

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