Let's all go to the lobby. Let's all go to the lobby. Let's get ourselves a treat. Hello and welcome to movies versus capitalism and anti capitalist movie Podcast. I'm Rifka Rivera.
And I am Frank Capello. And we are here we are here. I'm overcompensating right now for how tired I am. I just got back from my best friend's bachelor party in upstate New York, which was this past weekend. One of our dear mutual friends. And yes, I'm very, very tired now.
You did not sleep much. Yeah, I
didn't sleep a ton, not as much as I would have hoped. And just like was just doing stuff all the time. And I'm just you
were also the organizer. Because you are the best the best man I
am. I was. So yeah, so just a lot, a lot of planning a lot of work and then just, you know, a weekend full of activities. And I'm 35 now that like that, take that on its own takes it out of, but it was great. We went fly fishing, because apparently upstate New York has some of the best fly fishing in the country. And it was very fun. It was very relaxing,
fly fishing. I'm sure there's an anti capitalist angle there. Cuz it's sort of doing nothing. Right? Yeah,
it's a lot of do nothing. And we found out that most of the fly fishing up there is not to keep it's catch and release. It's just sport, which is kind of anti capitalist. It's like it's like I don't need to I don't need to accumulate and hoard all of these fish. I just need
to poke them in the mouth and
I just want to torture them just a little bit. Yeah, I just want to give them a little a little lip piercing but yeah, it was great. How was your weekend?
It's good I'm doing like a very my partner are doing like stay k like I'm feel like this is the summer of like very New York summer because I'm just my work schedules not there's not really any time to just go away for a weekend. So I'm like embracing Brighton Beach. We went Brighton Beach was awesome. Some Coney Island, you know Brooklyn beaches, which I love the I love the Jersey Shore beaches the most but I do love some Brooklyn beaches. So there's so convenient. It was just nice to get some sun. I've just been working so much. I just haven't gotten any sun. So nice to slow down a bit.
We also before last weekend, we got to hang out and have dinner with a friend of the show. One of our favorites. Harvey Kay Harvey was in town and was like you guys want to meet up for dinner? And we were like, absolutely we do. And it was such a lovely time is your first time really?
Oh, it was amazing. It was Harvey is written. For those of you don't know Harvey look Harvey up. Also, if you haven't listened to our new Z Newsies episode, Harvey is our guest on the Newsies episode. It's one of my favorites. And Harvey has written many, many books, including, he's just an incredible scholar on Marxism, and also just labor and just all these things. So sitting down with Harvey, you get a lot of information. A lot of the tangents are my favorite part. They're just gonna be like, I'm sorry, I ended up like, over here. And we're like, that's okay. We're with you. And even if we're not like, we'll figure it out. We'll catch, like hitchhiking over to the next thought.
Yeah. It's like, it's like scrolling through a Wikipedia page. And like, you keep clicking on different links. And you're like, Well, no, I want to know about that. And I want to know about that. But like, the most fun Wikipedia page is hard. It was great. Yeah. But before we get to our conversation, we wanted to do a little update on the ongoing Writers Guild strike are really sort of all of the entertainment guilds. So we've talked about it a little bit, but sag AFTRA, which is the actor guild was in negotiations with the am PTP. That's the that's the producers and the network's their negotiating body, because their contract was going to be up at the end of June 30. So they're in negotiations. But then on June 27, like 300 actors sign this letter to sag leadership. So then on June 27 300, actors signed a an open letter to sag leadership, saying that they would rather strike in solidarity with the WGA, which has been on strike for over 60 days now. They'd rather strike than compromise on these big key issues, a lot of which affect all of the guild's. So this was actors like Kevin Bacon, Quinta Brunson, Glenn Close Chelsea Handler, Jennifer Lawrence Mark Ruffalo, Meryl Streep. And this is just one part. From the letter I want to read. Quote, this is not a moment to meet in the middle. And it's not an exaggeration to say that the eyes of history are all on us. We ask that you push for all the changes we need and the protections we deserve and make history doing it. If you're not able to get all the way there, we ask that you use the power given to you the membership and join the WGA on the picket lines for our Union and its future. This is our moment. And then a couple days later, it was been signed by over 1700 actors, including sag AFTRA, President Fran Drescher, which people are like, Okay, this is an interesting development because like truly people, I think we're thinking that Fran, who I believe is like a little bit more of like an, you know, moderate, maybe even like, leans a little conservative, like, people were worried she was just going to take the deal. And there were rumors that WGA leadership had been pressuring sag leadership to take the deal, because the Directors Guild, I know, I'm talking a lot, but this is just, you know, this is
fascinating, the Directors Guild,
they made a deal about a month ago, the leadership set and a lot of, you know, the WGA was pissed, they were like, okay, then you could have, you know, not taking the deal and solidarity. And then we would have all the potentially all the unions together. And then on June 23, the membership, the rank and file, they had all voted and they ratified that contract with 87% voting in favor. So the Directors Guild is done, it's out, they have taken their contract, I don't know if there's a way for them to, if it comes to it need to strike in solidarity. So yeah, so this is where we're at now with sag and sag and they MPTP have decided to extend their negotiating deadline to July 12. So that's, I think that's all of the catch up to where we are.
It's just like Sal solidarity is the way right. Just do it.
Just do it. Just do it. How are you feeling as a still active sag member?
Yeah, I'm ready to ready to strike. I mean, it seems we've talked about this before, it just seems like oh, it's very, I guess it's very, like the insanity of climate change, or, like, there is no other option and pretending like they're is is so silly. But we'll, we'll continue to do it. I guess I guess we're kind of a silly species, sometimes,
a lot of the times I will. And sometimes it's like silly, haha. And sometimes it's like silly, you're gonna get your selves killed.
And then sometimes we're the best. And sometimes we're the best. But this
was, I mean, one thing they really highlighted in this actor letter was that if they concede, if them and like the WGA end up conceding on some of these, it's really kind of big key issues of like streaming residuals and AI, then they will set up will be setting themselves up for a future where they always are playing from behind and don't have any leverage against the studios. So it's basically like, this is the moment to not give away your rights. And if you cave on this, like, well, it'll be very, very difficult for us to get these rights back in the future. So I think my
like, my, the main thing I'm thinking right now is just about how, in general and in politically on the left, like a lot of the critique of AOC. And though what did we call them out the squat squad, the squad of just like, just how much like, in all of these decisions, how much fear there is, and I get it, like the even in the decisions around like, vote blue, no matter who just like the fear of losing the bare minimum, when they're like, there's just so much fear. And like, we're just at a moment in time in all places of like, we just gotta take that fearless, or courageous, not feared, but like, we got to take that brave leap, because it's just like standing on the edge of something that's deteriorating, being like, I'll just hold on at least I can hold on to the edge a little bit longer. And pretend like maybe, by some force, by some miracle, it'll like, stop. It's not going to stop. Yeah, but I do I recognize the fear of like, Well, is it gonna get worse if we make a brave choice? That ideology is really strong. And I just think, again, we talked about this that like, we've talked about this over and over, but like, there's a place of like, there's that collective trauma that collective like it takes. So it's going to take so much for us to move in that brave space forward. But it's exciting that potentially sag will do the right thing.
What you just said made me think of like acting from that fear based place. thing we see in a lot of our politics, but recently after these new Supreme Court rulings, someone asked Joe Biden again, Hey, would you ever expand the court? Would you ever add more justices and his response was basically basically like, we're not going to do that because if we do that, then like, you know, then who knows what will happen with the court then like people might not might lose even more people might lose even more. Faith in the court and he's all about like, norms and not bucking the system. That's what it is. Yeah, bucking the seat
is oh, he's cool with norms because of norms always worked out for him. He's an old white guy like, yeah, of course you're cool with norms. It's his own version of like, that sort of make America great again, is like it's not too dissimilar than like, let's, let's just like keep things back to like the norms as they were.
Yes. And it's also completely fear based. And it's like, he's operating from this place of like, well, you know, we don't want to make the court seem legitimate. And like, we got to be careful. We can't like, we can't push too hard, otherwise, people, people are gonna think that this is like a liberal coup, and oh, no, no, but it's like, this court is month by month, just like stripping away some of the most important rights that we have in this country. And the fact that like him, and democratic leadership's like response is like, No, we don't want to get too extreme. Now, we don't want to get too extreme. Meanwhile, everyone's over here. It's just like, the fuck are you doing? Like, do anything? Do the fucking do fucking anything? So? Yeah. Well,
you found it in you. A whole bachelor party, you just found a new way to go.
That's good. That's gonna that's gonna carry me through the rest of the
day. And on that note, we should get to our movie, because it's a great conversation. I'm excited to share this. But before we do, we just want to let you know that this podcast is brought to you by the lover or reader supported investigative news outlet, which reports on the people in corporations manipulating the levers of power in our society, you can go to lever news.com, to find all of their original reporting.
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We're gonna take a break but we will be right back with our discussion on a soldier's story with Jason miles.
All right, we are very excited today to be joined by Jason miles. Jason is the host of the this is Revolution podcast and a columnist for Sublation magazine. He's also a musician that spent years recording and touring with the bands luffing absolute DUMO and most recently, bitter Lake Jason is also a video essayist with a feature length project due out later this year. Jason miles Welcome to movies versus capitalism wow, I didn't I didn't realize you were gonna be whipping out the soundboard this quickly.
I won't there's there's very inappropriate sounds on here for the show that I do. This is revolution. That's the only appropriate thing that I have loaded in
here. Probably. Well, we could test that.
Now. I'm curious. Yeah. No, no, no.
New I don't want to get you guys in the trouble that I have found myself in. That is
the best plug for your show, though. Yeah, like, just recording.
We're allowed to do whatever we want on here. You know what you
say? And then there becomes a whole new set of rules.
And then the CIA shows up at your house.
It was the CIA. It's just your boss. Like why did you do that?
JASON So we we met just very recently moments ago. To for you to tell us a little bit about yourself the work you do. Get the podcast. Yeah. What's your
unlike most people that want to have a background of books that they've read, or reading or just looks real cool to have behind you. I have a background of places I've visited and played as a touring musician, which a lot of that definitely shapes the way I see the world. The show that I do this Revolution podcast literally was a lyric in the song I lived in a place called Soundwave studios. And if you're familiar with the movie, sorry to bother you. A lot of the sets, majority of the sets were built in that large warehouse facility in West Oakland. Oh hell yeah. The scene where they're where the main character is dry. Having down the street, and there's like homeless encampments, that was nothing was staged for that it was just a shot. That's what the street looked like it actually became the site of the largest homeless encampment in the city that sadly just got cleared. So a lot of the work that we do on the show, especially me personally talks about that population, because that's what worked with them. And I lived in this warehouse that you weren't supposed to live in. So as a music rehearsal recording studio that also hosted tons of music videos, because it was just kind of this spot in the middle of the hood that you could do whatever you wanted in. And I'll just kind of leave it at that was. And I lived there for some time amongst tons of musicians. And I thought when my band better Lake wasn't touring, it would be cool if we interviewed some of the people and I can interject some politics into our music discussion. And the band didn't really see value in it, they were like, that doesn't really seem like it makes sense. And I just kept doing it by myself. And here I am now living in Mexico and the shows. It's doing alright, it's doing all right.
That's amazing. And also not super surprising that, you know, maybe your bandmates were like, well, that doesn't actually provide us with any immediate value, like, like, how do we commodify this, you know what I mean? So,
you know, it was it was a moment where people were still doing the thing where they're like live streaming practice. And me personally, I was like, I don't think anybody really cares too much about people. They don't know that well. But literally outside of our door, what we will be recording the show would be bands like a story so far, if you're familiar with like pop punk bands like that. And then if you walked out in the hallway, you could hear Lenny Williams from tower power, you know, doing still a young man and Dwayne Wiggins from Tony, Tony, Tony, who also helped put together the second iteration of Destiny's Child, walked in on a practice once and got a video made for us. So it was a really interesting place to be in, and, and all of my musical heroes, regardless of genre, I'd always meet there and see them. So it's kind of like doing what I do now on the show, I was doing constantly all the time with, with people in the facility, the owner, let me have like a little bootleg coffee shop in the back. And it's kind of a little secret milk of the place. So it was a place a really cool place. And I thought it'd be neat to talk to some of these people and air conversations that I got to have with them in this really cool location. And it's the show didn't go that way, it kind of immediately took off in a whole political rap. But I still get to have some music shows here and there.
Were you in these conversations. Jason, did you find that you were always just naturally talking about politics? Was it something that you consciously wanted to bring into your conversations around music? What was that experience and that journey for you?
I think, if you think about the whole, like, I don't like to talk politics. Most people say that, because you're going to say something that's going to kind of rock their worldview. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And playing the music that I played, I played like weird, experimental, punky metal, industrial, like you've named something and it's in there. And so I wasn't always around the lefty kids. There's a lot of times, and I played in a lot of the what we call flyover countries, so I wasn't always in friendly territory, so to speak. And my my group within absolute Demone was me and my, my ex, who is a Canadian, Asian. So who, who didn't have that good of a understanding of us racism. So we were constantly kind of in uncomfortable territory, but people for whatever reason, felt very comfortable to talk to us about how they felt in 2012 was kind of a really frightening year where people really felt comfortable, you know, saying how they felt about the the Obama administration. So these were kind of conversations that people were having. And also, I was dealing with bands that were somewhat political, because again, a lot of the hardcore punk bands of the first wave of the 80s are there. So for the most part, people really don't have a problem talking about about their worldviews. It's just kind of how you phrase things right? Like I don't walk around with a shirt that says I am a this. We were just my co hosts and our recently on Katie Hopper show and she was trying to make us say we were A black Marxist and I was like, Nah, dude, we're gonna we're not gonna be part of anything like a gang free.
That makes sense. And I mean, I am not a musician by have hung out with some musicians occasionally. I worked at a pizza place in LA and it was a very, very like grungy. They played a lot of like rock and punk and shit. Metal Yeah, it was the spot. The pizza place?
Yeah. gone now.
No, it's definitely still there.
If you don't want to say that's fine if you don't give it any
free advertisement, I fucking hate that place. Yeah,
and we've also talked a lot of shit about this
place. Oh, then double f it you know, I still go to LA to see a lot of the my friends that do this podcast and work live in LA. So I just didn't know if it was a place that we should go. Or we should still just keep going to the rainbow and reliving the 80s
do that. But the one thing I always picked up from those dudes is like they might not have been political in the sense that we're talking about, like, you know, speaking about politics, but there is there was a very anti establishment current that ran through that. Through those it was mostly guys, but like, so I found that if I if I kind of entered in conversations through that lane, I could be more receptive to like maybe the turning into like a full on political conversation. Oh, yeah.
I, when I write, I try to write around music and pop culture, because I think that's the easiest way to talk to people about the world. Politics, racism, any ism you want. I feel that there's a way to explain it. I tried to find a way to explain it through pop culture, the most recent column and Sublation is called stakes as high. Are we addicted to the spectacle stakes as high as a de la Sol album from 96. And they were popular kind of in the news at the time. And so I just listened to their whole discography and started, you know, writing this out, and I have another one called virtual insanity, which is a Jamiroquai song. I know that one every every in every chapter in the in the stuff I write is usually a song title from the group. So I'm working on a new one, where every chapter has a song title from the soundtrack from movie pump up the volume. Oh, I love that movie knows. And it's an it's about the way we view authenticity, kind of using Milli Vanilli as a backdrop.
That sounds fascinating. Okay, I can't wait to get into the conversation about this film. Before we do two things I have to say because you brought up your background and we're with a musician and like, I thought I was like, I don't like I have this guitar in my background. And people are like, do you mean I'm like, No,
I don't like to have stuff. Because you always want to ask you questions about oh, this is add we're gonna have this do you use a new play guitar in your woman too? So everyone's gonna double question like, Oh, do you play? You know how?
I'm like, No, this is the equivalent of zoom background like that was purchased at some point during the pandemic, you know? Let's jump into this movie, because I was really excited to watch this and I'm excited to discuss this with you. You chose what the hell is
this movie?
Well, yeah.
I never heard of this movie. This is a
movie it's times I wrote it and erased it was so movies, I wrote it. And then I was having a discussion actually with author and academic and good friend to re read and he was giving me one of his tutorials we'll call on his feelings of this movie. And it is and my also my co host is one of his favorite movies and we played it on our channel we do a movie night on Discord on our Discord channel. And we did this whole movie night and people really, really dug it. So I hope you guys really,
yeah, I can't wait to discuss this. So for all of you, I don't think we said the movie yet. So we watched a soldier's story, which is a movie that was released on September 13 1984, directed by Norman Jewison. Written by Charles fuller based on his 1981 Pulitzer Prize winning play a soldier's play, and the film stars Howard E. rowland's, Jr, Adolph Caesar, art Evans, Denzel Washington, David Alan Grier and Larry Riley. The budget for this movie was 6 million and it made 21 point 8 million and it was set in 1944. The story of Captain Davenport, a black army investigator played by Howard E. roelens, who traveled to a remote military base in the heart of Louisiana backwoods to investigate the mysterious murder of Sergeant waters played by Adolf Caesar was also black. Once he arrives, Davenport discovers an army regiment an entire community that strictly adheres to the violent and oppressive Jim Crow laws of the Deep South, was originally believed to be racially motivated murder develops into a much more complicated mystery. Dot dot Thought we will discuss all of that.
I hope you guys enjoy the murder mystery of the movie. The racial ramifications can be can be can hit you in the face really hard, but a half hour and you're like this is just a good murder mystery.
That's interesting that you bring that up because I was most compelled by like, like all of the racial ramification like that component was the thing that was really for me, keeping this kept driving the story forward. But before we get into that really fast, just a little bit of historical context for when this movie was released, we'd like to let the audience know what was happening in the world when these you know when these movies came out, so this is 1984. This is the end of President Ronald Reagan's first term and his election for his second term in Jaya yay, our favorite. In January, he announces that the United States will begin the development of a permanently crewed Space Station and invite international space agencies to join the project, a concept which will eventually become the International Space Station in March teachers at a preschool in Manhattan Beach California are charged with satanic ritual abuse of
children trial Did you guys ever talk about the McMartin trial
we haven't in depth should also be noted that the charges were later dropped as completely unfounded so there's a little shooting
on has a lot of roots in the McMartin trial.
Oh, wow, really? Yeah. I mean, that makes sense. Like, the Satanic Panic.
It's another movie that if you guys want to talk about an interesting movie, there's a documentary about it. I think it's called McMartin starring Henry Thomas. From et, from et. Yeah, he plays the kind of creepy older son the woman had most people lost everything and trial took like 10 years when the most expensive trials in California history. But there when Q anon first started coming up, McMartin was always looked at as well. This is a failure of what you guys keep talking about with these child abductions. And so they started to spin a new narrative that No, no, no, no, there's things that were left out of that trial that were true, that you never heard about, which of course isn't true. Those kids, you know, sadly, were forced into making up you know, so many different things. God, demons sacrifices, kids getting flushed down toilets. 10 years, fuckin absurd.
Also this year, Bruce Springsteen release is born in the USA. And this this Summer Olympics happen in Los Angeles, Los Angeles, Tom Bradley. Yeah, so that's 1984. Jason, the first thing we'd like to start off with is asking our guest, why did you choose this movie to talk about on this podcast?
I found you guys through the shorts on on Instagram, I think. And the first thing I saw you guys did was, I think it was When Harry Met Sally. was when Harry Massara got mail. Sorry, there's so many of you know, that came out? How could you mistake the do? Yeah,
Meg Ryan was very busy during the 80s.
Yes. And I was like, Oh, this is kind of interesting. And when I was thinking of movies, like I was telling you, there's definitely a bunch that go through my mind. And I tried to find some that aren't necessarily the norm that you would watch, because there's some that just hit you over the head, right? You know, don't look up a message like it's not bad. It's just you understand what it's about. Robocop is something I think people have talked about, you know, quite a bit about its its critique of neoliberalism. If you didn't know that, then watch Robocop it's a great critique. A lot of those early Verhoeven movies or even, you know, watch Total Recall, that's a hell of a critique on privatization. So a soldier's story isn't necessarily an over the top view on capitalism, but I also think that we can talk about the capitalist world in which we live, and we need to be able to have conversations that can get under the nails, and maybe dispel good guy bad guy narratives, especially in the way that we see things. I I just want everyone to know that's watching. This is coincidental that we're doing this on June teeth, when they asked me a bunch of dates yet. This one was open. And I don't think any of us thought Oh, no. It's all it's all coincidental. But this movie in particular, I think, you know, really should hit home for a lot of people, especially when we when we think about, there's a holiday now Juneteenth that really comes out of of The 2020 George Floyd, what some people might call a racial reckoning. So I thought, let's, let's do a show. And there are some myths also, too, about black participation and World Wars. I mean, there are definitely black troops in World War One. As the sergeant, that's kind of his, his whole thing is, he fought in the First World War. And there was like two battalions, and there was a battalion that fought with Americans was a battalion that fought with the French and the battalion fought with the French had a much better time. But no one's ever fought with Americans. So that's why you hear the sergeant often wax poetic, about, you know, his time in the army, and France, and how wonderful France was, and the women in the steden, the other and also to the GI Bill, also, even before we even get to World War Two, you have people like WEV, Dubois that actually feels like the Negro, the black man in the Army is going to really, you know, be a racial reckoning, that can, you know, get us over a certain hump. So when we think about like the GI bill moving forward, there was also a big push to have more black people sign up to get the benefits of the GI Bill. And you know, it's it's a mixed bag. And World War Two, we can't say that everything is is all great, and everything is all horrible. The GI Bill also helped a lot of black men get politically active, because now they're literally saying that if we're going to have truly systemic change, it will go through the federal government. And you know, people like Medgar Evers comes out of military service and the GI Bill. So I thought this was an interesting movie to watch because it's just a great movie. The people that you named are just some of the people in the movie wings houses in that movie, you know, be movie legend. Robert Townsend.
Rob Townsend. Yeah.
Early in his career. Adolph Caesar for those that don't know he's the dad in Color Purple. He's Danny Glover's Father's character in The Color Purple. Great actor.
Mattie. Well, I don't know if I mentioned Patti LaBelle is in the movies. I mean, unbelievable. space
opens the movie just like, you know, setting you up for this. You know, this is the south and again, I actually didn't just turn this off. I also worked in the south on oil rigs. Would Yeah, that's what I always say whenever I think.
So I have a fondness for the Deep South. I know what that disgusting sweat that the actors have throughout the movies are supposed to be kind of before easy. But the movie isn't just a story of racism, right? It's a story about class. And I think we can't talk about the capitalist world in which we live in if we don't talk about class. And there's a way that the sergeant's character played by Adolf Caesar who just just chews up every scene he's in. Just I love him in this movie, Denzel also a young, fiery Denzel in this movie is great. Howard Rollins is great. Though, way the sergeant like when you see the SARGe when you're introduced to his character, besides him getting killed in the beginning, it starts with it's one of those wounds that starts with him getting murdered, you don't know who did it. But when you see the sergeant, be kind of kind to characters that he's a little meaner to later like the CJ character. That's the he calls him a GI chi, which is a derogatory term to black people from certain parts of Mississippi. He loves him when he first meets him. He's like, Oh, did you play at this place? Do you know so and so? Oh, yeah, I bet you did. He had no problem with them. Right? I've seen some people say was a colorist to take. And I don't think that was the case at all. I definitely think it's a story of class that we just don't like to talk about because people might look at the sergeant's characters like a self hating man. And he may have some of that in him to a certain degree, but he also understands in his mind the importance of of getting out of this economic slump, and he's in the Deep South, and, you know, just in the Deep South, poor ass white people. You see why people that sharecropper you know, the great country singer, Tammy Wynette. You know what she did before she was say she's picking cotton. You know, that's what heard George Jones would bond over there growing up dirt frickin poor in the south. So he understands that, you know, your poverty level isn't why you don't have an entryway in right? Here's a little bootstrap he
very much that was one of the first first notes I wrote down. I was like this is this is the bootstraps guy, for sure.
A little bit a little bit Bootstrap. But he also understands, you know, he was he said, My dad couldn't read or write, but he made sure we did. And now my son's not gonna go to the army because I'm taking this sacrifice so he can have an opportunity. Even Howard Rollins character when he meets the the white, the white captain. He goes, where'd you go to law school? Howard? Where here's your family rich? Yeah. Well, the GI Bill opened up the ability for for black men that didn't have a high school education. Let's keep that in mind. And white men that had a high school education either get, you know, get your GED or get a college education. So black colleges, historically black colleges just blew up at the time with the GI Bill, so many cans couldn't get into to standard for universities. And so he's like, go to this very prestigious school. Howard.
Yeah, I think there's so much you're saying Jason, that I just like resonated a lot, especially the first time seeing it. And my experience my weigh in was, I mean, the performances from everyone in this were so astounding that it was I mean, it was hard to not watch it and be like, there's, you know, and then be like, wait, what's happening? Because I'm like, Oh, wow, it's like, really, really good acting, you know, and I think there's so much bad acting now that like, you see, good acting. And this was also this. I love stories that were I love plays. And so I love films that are like clearly plays, even though sometimes people are like, in this is not the medium they didn't shoot, you know, and you can, this is clearly this, to me was like a play, you know, and I think maybe that takes away from some of the I think that's either you enjoy that there was a lot of that murder, there was a lot of certain structural things. And like, I think they had to fix some things because you're like on the stage, they would be doing a lot more talking about and they do these flashbacks. But I actually thought really worked in this in this structure. But what I loved about to me, the whole thing was brought together by just Sergeant Vernon waters, who were talking about who ate offseason or plays and just everything you think everything everyone's saying is true. What I loved about this character is he's so complex that you're like, yeah, he's a little bit of bootstraps, hates himself a little bit, also loves himself a little bit. Also this also that and I think that's what made this really compelling watch for me, because you just so rarely see that allowed in movies, but especially for movies with black characters, like any you know, there's just never room for that kind of complexity. And this was like, and he plays it with like, every season, he's just eating, you know what I mean? Just like every moment, you have a new emotional beat, it was it's a really you have to watch this just for that the roller coaster and he plays drunk, because the movie starts where he's just like, close to blackout drunk. And again, the amount of bad performances of drunk this is I thought this was a great, great performance of drunk you just you feel that drunk watching
or watch this as a little kid when it came on cable. And we used to get this back in my day. Cable HBO? Yes,
we had HBO period, because it is no more.
Oh, it's no more HBO. It's the max. There used to be a little paper thing. It was like three pages long. And it was like yay big. And it was a little paper that showed you what was coming on TV. I was the kid that read the newspaper to see what was coming on TV. I begged for the TV Guide to see what was coming on TV. I could tell you what time it was by what was on TV. That was me as a kid. Right. And when this came out there was there was a cover was the the movie poster, which is Howard Rollins thinks his name, character in his in his army with the aviator uniform is dressed in his dress uniform. And I was like what is this? And my dad was like, Oh, this is a soldier story. And I watched it with my with my father the first time. And I just remember kind of being blown away not knowing I was talking about like a firewall cable. I didn't really understand totally what it was. But it was so moving. And I've watched this movie every year since and I'm 45 as probably was like seven or eight when I came in like eight or so. And it's still moving. I was actually watching it before we went on. And I was like man, I can watch this movie so many times and see His portrayal being when he's hurt, especially at the end, no matter but basically saying something that's a little Afro pessimistic that I don't necessarily agree with 100%. But it makes sense for a movie to be taking place in the deep south and 1944 which is, no matter what you do you still an N word, right. And it's also interesting how the white colonels and captains want to keep everything under wraps, because they everyone believes it's the clan. It's the only thing that makes sense to them. Black man with stripes walking around town. Maybe he got mouthy. He was drunk. The Klan killed him. That's just what happens here. We want to keep this quiet because we don't want to have an international incident or potentially
it's the other white officers because that that storyline is introduced about halfway through the movie where it's like, it could have been the Klan It also could have been these couple of white officers over here but regardless that is that that scene you're talking about between Davenport when he comes in and the colonel the firt Yeah, the first introduction we get into this into this world into how this investigation is gonna go is basically this white Colonel telling Captain Davenport, the black investigator was just arrived on the scene like, Hey, we're not going to we're not going to do this. This, you're basically this for loop is like your investigation. It's going to be three days, you're gonna get whatever you need. You're not going to charge any white people. That's how this is gonna go down and
talk about Nevins is that Nevins, the main. He's like the main white guy that plays the dad and
Raising Arizona. That's Colonel Nimitz. It's confusing that there's only yeah, there's Colonel Evans. And then there's Captain Taylor. He's the Taylor Yeah, Captain Taylor is like the slightly nicer white officer. First time
I saw Negro I was 12 years old.
That's Taylor. Taylor.
That's tailored.
That's Taylor Taylor feels like
under the baseball team. He's like, these are my base. Taylor was today Taylor
to me feels very like vote blue no matter who energy like that was Taylor was like a little, you know, like a little like, Taylor also complex, like also had me. I didn't know how I fully felt about Taylor. But I did have that moment where it's like, I feel like I know where Taylor might sit today.
I don't think you'd be a Democrat. I think you think Republican. For a time I lived with a white family that was not my own. Who is Republican. Great people.
Do you mind if I ask what age range you were during this time? I
was a grown man. I was 32 cheeses. How long did we live this 36 or so? So it's I won't get into the to the whys and how I got there. It's just it's just not really that interesting. But I didn't have like a drug problem. And they rescued me to church or anything like that. It was just way more boring. But we became we became actually really, really close are They're wonderful people. I love them to death. And they would probably echo some of those same sentiments. It's interesting. It goes back to like putting people in boxes. You know what I mean? Yeah, like, it's easy to think that everyone that may be a Republican, probably hates brown people. Like if I see an American flag on someone's house, I'm I feel very confident that you hate Brown.
Yeah. It has it's become one of those signifiers now,
but I do think Taylor had like, yeah, those moments whatnot, but I just the vote blue, I guess what I got from that was like there was very much a strong and I think it was intentional in the writing, like, which I liked about it, the greater context of what that militarization in that army mindset, and actually how intentional that is, and how the bigger project of capitalism is related to like you were saying earlier, like you can't separate class racism, capitalism, militarization, all of this way of thinking from each other. And I thought it was like the plague got a lot of that right in some ways, because you never forgot the army context. But that's a very like, the the Imperial con the Imperial context. Exactly. I mean, that's when I think the vote blue No, not just in that. Not even in terms of like Democrat Republican and can we vote this no matter what, it's more the the Vigilant dominant thinking of because we do this therefore, we may think these certain things and I thought Taylor was interesting, because Taylor would say things that you could almost see in the actor's choices like a second, just these kind of almost questioning moments of like, I'm saying this I don't really know what the fuck I'm saying.
I think that's why Davenport is such a well wrought character and like the perfect catalyst to kind of come along and start challenging a lot. Pretty much everyone's conception of like, what it means to be black in this time, what it means to be a black officer and then His time, because yeah, he's just like, kind of he's just like running running loops around Taylor. He's also a lawyer like that. Like that's, that's important to know, like he's from, I looked into this because I was like, how does this How does the how does the whole lawyer army thing work? It's it's Jag, which is, yeah, especially essentially like the armed forces. Lawyer wing, oh, my God, that's their lawyer, well,
is the legal department for the military because they don't go through traditional courts.
Thank you. That's a much more eloquent way of saying it, then the lawyer. My one big I had a lot of takeaways, but like, the one thing that I was kind of really surprised by was that I had never heard of this film before. Especially with the casts that we just laid out. The fact that it is based on a Pulitzer Prize winning play, I was like, how they never heard of this, this movie before, and was nominated for three Academy Awards, not only three Academy Awards, the conclusion that I arrived at, on my own is that this is a really challenging movie for I think, white people to probably watch. So I don't so I would imagine that it's cultural legacy. In white spaces, especially on you know, the with the TV, the TV network system has been running operated for the last 40 years has probably not given this film a lot of airtime. Which I think is a real shame, because I think it challenges a lot of conception, a lot of white conceptions of basically how, like the different forms that white supremacy can take, because that's another big thing that I took from this is that this was, like, you know, we're talking about how this is like a story about class. And that, you know, capitalism requires racism and a class based racism to uphold a lot of its oppressive structures. And I think seeing a nuanced This is a very nuanced story with a lot of, like black dynamism, like baked into all of the characters. Like there's so many different tendencies, so many different perspectives that you're getting, paid him and gotten into den Zales character who's basically I mean, how would you even describe him? He's like, he's like a very, like,
that's what I am like, by I can have a regular job. I was while I was watching, I was like, Dude, I wear glasses as you guys saw before we went on there and I totally would have said what kind of black men colored man all you would have said the exact words. And I would have fought with my boss.
Yeah, cuz he's very, he's very proud. He's not afraid to speak his mind. And like, I mean, spoiler alert, he ends up we find out being the murderer, the person who kills Sergeant waters, essentially because Sergeant waters has, through the course of his internalized anti blackness has scapegoated this one guy in their platoon CJ. And then CJ ends up killing himself because of how terrible waters is to him. So then in turn, then Zales character kills waters because he's like, this is unacceptable. You like you know, you are now responsible for this person's death. So there's just so much nuance and so many like, like you're saying so much complexity
and waters embarrassed him. Remember?
That was the one of the entire movie that was I was like, I think den Zales got waters in this fight.
They CJ warns he'll fight your dirty. That's true. The CJ character is an interesting character because it's one that the sergeant has trouble with a one hand, he appreciates, kind of what CJ brings to the table. Right? He's he's a pretty nice guy. He's a talented musician. He's a hell of a ballplayer, you know, you need him to win on your team. And ultimately, they say, This regiment was basically just a baseball team, but see Jays reluctance to kind of maybe have some of the Southern politeness but not have all of these as he would maybe say Geechie ways, or Cooney ways. You know, I think the term Kuhn has really been kind of changed over the years. But I think waters would view CJ as a very kind of stereotypical character that he thinks is bad for this new this new burgeoning negro. That is going to get new life due to the New Deal and a larger entry into the armed forces. So CJ for him is kind of a look back into the past. That cannot be right. Like if we're ever to get some that get there. We have to eliminate the CJs I don't say any of this to make anything the character did in this movie. Good. Because the character of the sergeant is a horrible man. But But because you see all three dimensions of him, you kind of have a little bit of sympathy for him. Right? A little bit. I did I can't speak for you guys. I did absolutely it's
an it's it's that's a testament to how wonderful the writing is and how nuanced and complex the writing is because it I did, I did feel that sympathy I felt I felt like the sergeant character was humanized. Not in that, like, I walked away being like, Oh, I like that guy. I think he's good, but that I understood where he came from and why he why he holds this perspective.
Yeah, and I connected with him. I mean, I think anyone watching that's like I can, I could connect with that total part of a self where you're like, nobody can sit there and be like, I'm all this one way. I'm all this, you know, and that's the best performances and that's the best art I think when you can really connect to all of the selves in a person.
Everyone is trying to protect something, reputations, upward mobility within the service, their men, everyone is trying to protect something, right? Even the white characters that are problematic outside of wings house. Who beats beats up to Sergeant? To some degree, they think, Well, this is just the way it is. Right? I'm in the Deep South. Some of the you know the first the colonel you meet I'm from the Deep South. I'm in the Deep South, you know segregation now segregation for Elvis, you know, he's, that's everything but says that line. And I think what makes the movie hard to swallow today is that everything is just so overly racialized with kind of comic book characters, that even movies that we're supposed to celebrate. I did a whole video essay called same as it ever was, on kind of contemporary black cinema. And the way we look at the black exploitation era as the short lived time, but I'm like, what makes those movies so less exploitive than Wakanda? Forever? I mean, why does? First of all, why does this advanced society not have guns? Or lasers? That Are you still using spears? I don't give a damn if they're like MAGICAL METAL spears? They're still spears? Why are they fighting on the backs of animals in the savanna of Africa? But they live in? Like, none of that made sense to me. Right? Wow. That's offensive. We live in such an advanced society. It's still a monarchy. Yeah. Okay, that's interesting. And if there's a bloodline that you have to be a part of, to ever be part of the ruling class. Okay, that's interesting. But nobody seems to care. And it's supposed to be this magical land of this is what would have happened, had had, like, people never gotten slaves, like, oh, there's still be a monarchy. That kind of makes sense. And apparently, we'd be fighting on animals still. That's weird.
Damn, I have never heard this tape before. I say, Yeah, I'm
looking forward to this video essay. I mean, I think it's similar to so many of these. There's like this big post racial boom with bridgerton and The Little Mermaid and I'm, you know, I appreciate what's there. But I have the same thought watching and people get very mad at me for bringing it up. But I'm like, okay, but like, why are there still servants? Like, why is class still a thing? And we're actually supposed to be like, okay with it. We're supposed to set like, we totally ignore the class. We're just like, we just want there to be everyone to be able to be enslaved and rich, but like, we don't care that I'm like, the problem is the oppression. Like, the problem is the oppression, right? Like on Awesome. Yeah,
it was the guy who met Lin Manuel Miranda, read an interview with him. And when asked why don't you have slavery in Hamilton being that it was a key tenant of wealth for this new country? It's gonna be uncomfortable,
just plays into the whole conversation that I think a lot of people are not even aware of those pieces when you talk about Hamilton,
no. And when you think about like, again, back to back to your point about like, Why can't a movie like this resonate today? I think we need overly simplistic narratives about good guys and bad guys that resemble wrestling. I mean, that's my whole feature length that I've been working on for the better part of a year. Now it's the part that costs money to get done but it's about the way we consume mediate it's called kayfabe, which is you know, the wrestlers code of you know, never tell people it's, it's fake. And even the way I hear conversations running today around the idea of someone like Cornel West running for for office, kind of makes me go is that is this like the limits of your political imagination, just get another public figure to be your Savior. Like that the power has to ultimately rest in the people you know, not the saviors, but maybe we are so addicted to Marvel movies that we Just need a savior that maybe has our iconography on it. And they will feel more comfortable with this person in the higher office opposed to us having any sort of real political power or movements, you know, we are in a moment of no mass politics, and also no mass culture, for the for the most part. So where you see France, for example, you know, on fire over an increase to the pension system, when SNAP benefits got cut? Did anybody even knock over a garbage can? We need to see the political racial burlesque play out in front of us, for us to care. I mean, you guys are on the East Coast. Everyone was upset about short, Neely, it sucks to see somebody get killed on a subway like that the whole thing, you know, we'd have to get into it. But across the country, where I'm from in San Francisco, a young man, a trans man tried to steal some from the store, security guard stopped him they got into a fight. trans man threatened a security guard says gonna stab him and kill him. You know, people always say things when you're mad, and he kind of motion to the security guards gonna go shot him guild, security guards black victim is black. Da is a black woman, marries a black woman doesn't get the same attention. Because I can't spend the same narrative. You can't come out and say it's baked into the soul of America. Right? Is it all self imposed, anti blackness. At that point, the security guard who was who actually was licensed to carry a firearm, had suffered trauma had seen his own brother getting murdered, had drug addicted parents, something I'm familiar with, and probably shouldn't have had a job where you had a gun. But it's an uncomfortable conversation to have. Because we will always want to oversimplify these conversations with well, they shouldn't do this, or oh, maybe we shouldn't stop people for stealing. Okay, that's fair, that's fine, right. But now you're having what some people are calling a capital strike in places like San Francisco where you have major stores leaving. So kind of your business centers leaving, a lot of tech companies are leaving, their leases happen to come up during the pandemic. And the easy blame is crime. So unlike the 90s, where you did have violent drug crime, due to extremely cheap cocaine flowing up, and gangs that were kind of a built in distribution system, so you understand why you need more people to distribute this cheap product that has such a high markup on you understand the value of territories, right? That crack house could be worth $5 million a month. So of course, it's gonna get robbed of course, you're gonna be fighting over this turf. It just makes sense within this economics paradigm in which we live, that's gone in this context. These kids are robbing shit to buy more Jordans with. They're not building criminal empires have stolen deodorant from Walgreens. But it becomes a main talking point as we're leading into a presidential election, and a mayoral and Governor election to where you have these these democratic governors that were so hard because everybody thought that the catch all answer was this, you know, just to fund the police. With the funds, please. We abolish the police. This is the catch all answer to everything. defunding the police didn't stop making George Floyd's right. Here's a man that lived in economic precarity. Maybe it stops him from getting his ass whooped. I'm all for stop and ask weapons. I've been black in California a long time not a big fan of having to deal with the police. Also not a big fan of, of state sponsored ass weapons. But is it the catch all answer to try to even examine something like homelessness and property crime? California spent $17 billion with a B. And we still have I still say we even have Mexico now. We California still has the highest population of unhoused residents. So what are we doing wrong? What is wrong with the way in which we're seeing these problems? The way in which we're seeing the world because our solutions, they're not there.
I think this is such an important point that you're making. And it's something that specifically about the oversimplification of these narratives. And something we've talked about on this podcast is the way that films especially will portray these conflicts as a binary like you're saying, good guy, bad guy, you know, right, wrong. Faith versus chance, like whatever it's, you know, it can it can, it runs, it runs a whole gamut. Whereas in reality, the solutions or if you'd want to call them solutions always operate within a very, very complex and nuanced gray area in the middle that is not clean. That is not always going to work the first time that is, you know, might have some other offset ramifications that we hadn't even considered at the time. And I think just being able to being able to frame these conversations, I was gonna say debate, but I think debates are so fucking stupid. I hate I hate. I hate debate culture, hate anyone who's like, debate me like shut the fuck up like this. What? What a terrible way to? What a terrible way to try to understand someone else, or to even get your points out? I think so. No, I think this is I think everything you're saying is spot on. I think it's reflected in the way that this movie tells that story, which is so nuanced, so complex. Yeah. And it's just like, it's uncomfortable. Yeah. And every, every moment, I thought I got like, the full story, the full picture, another character was introduced, and you're, you're getting a bit bit of their perspective. And I, you know, especially as like, as a white dude who grew up on the East Coast, I was like, I was like, Oh, of course, there are, of course, these. These people exist. Of course, these perspectives exist. But like really being kind of the one of the first times I've seen it portrayed on film. So well, if you guys
read catalyst magazine, there's a new book, whatever, whatever they do, I think quarterly, they release a book. And in their book, they released a man named Preston Smith, the second has a whole piece from I think it's an excerpt of his book about housing in America during World War Two. And he was on our show two, three years ago, and it was one of my favorite episodes. And it's one of the best books you can get on housing, because it's, you know, if you read Rothstein, it's color of law. He paints a certain picture that is not 100% True. And in Smith's book, he really takes you inside of, of, of housing in a perspective that I think most people probably didn't look at it. As you know, like Lorraine Hansberry, the woman that wrote Raisin in the Sun, famous communist, her father makes his living making kitchenette houses for black people. Wow, blimey was still buying homes, it wasn't like, you know, it wasn't the way we see homeownership blow up for a lot of the white population. But when we think about wealth, it wasn't like those people also woke up one day and had money. They had an entryway into union jobs. That took a lot longer for the black population to get into, we have a whole other conversation about how that happened in the industrialized cities. And by the time you know, negros is finally getting into the manufacturing sector. But I, the sentiments of the SARGe are echoed in a short piece you can find online, if I can find that I'll send it to you. We supply it on the show. But it's from a conversation in 1962, that black people in California having middle class back, we were in California having about black moved from the south coming up. And they're like, We don't want those people in here. We don't want them in here effing up our goods. You know what I mean? And so, to me, the simplistic view, and the more contemporary view is to see everything like that as like internalized hatred, or anti blackness. I'm not the biggest proponent of that framework is everything I see that I don't like is anti black. And this is coming from someone that actually got told to leave somewhere because of my race. It doesn't happen as much as I think people would like it to happen. Racism definitely exists. But it also exists within people that think other people don't think it's supposed to be racist. Yeah. And in this movie, you really see it played out. I've definitely been around black people in my life that sounds very much like the sergeant they're not very hard to find. You could find him go walk outside your doors, and go into any barber shop in a predominantly black neighborhood. And you'll you'll hear those, those same sentiments echoed 5060 years later. So I think that's why that movie is still very relevant today. Again, the acting alone, yep. Do you want to take all the subtext out of it? The acting alone is is worth its weight in gold. I do think it translates into a feature film a lot better than something like fences, which is also interesting. I love the fact you guys named the director because Denzel Washington, there's a famous quote of him that I think it has millions of views on social media where he talks about why a black director needed to direct I think it was offensive, I think a black director expense, but then settles in this movie.
And then he also does the hurricane right? Isn't he in the hurricane later and he isn't hurt and and this guy, Andrew, introducing director that was introduced so Norman Norman. Oh, God, we're gonna have to go back into ADR is a great
if you like the color purple. That's a Spielberg film. Right? And I don't remember Denzel. I've done one person. I remember really speaking out about that with Spike Lee. And I have my own, you know, feelings about Spike Lee, again, if you want to watch. It's 27 minutes long. And I definitely give a little Spike Lee lesson so people can learn where he comes from. And why I don't really care that much for that dude. But this, this movie to me, I think is more relevant now than ever, because these are conversations that were too uncomfortable that are too uncomfortable, I think to have because of conversations around class. And immediately you're called a was a class reductionist, which I think is really interesting.
Jason, I could speak with you about this stuff all day long. I'm learning a ton. And I would love to have you back at some point. But we certainly need to bring this conversation to a close but but so before we go, the one of the last things we do is we hand out awards for this movie. We got three awards, we can go through them fairly quickly, you can decide on the spot. The first award is called a point with a view this goes to the character with the best politics in the movie. And I know that we just had a whole conversation about you know, oversimplifying things and reducing
right now. I love it. For me, dude, Henry Rollins character, the investigate Yeah, yeah, I love I love everything about him. Kind of the fact that he isn't a world he doesn't really understand. Right? He's from DC. He's from the North. He doesn't understand country life. He doesn't understand why people keep looking at him. This is just remember to him. It was just normal. Remember when this when the captain says where your parents are rich? No, that's just what black people do where I'm from.
Yeah, it goes to him. Absolutely. I'm giving it to Captain Devonport. Same Okay, our next award is despicable you this goes to the character with the worst politics in this movie.
It's definitely going to be that one white officer who beats up waters. Yeah.
Oh, wings Houser. Colonel. Colonel David's Colonel Nevins is also in one of my favorite movies Raising Arizona. Oh, is he plays? He plays the Arizona man who gets his kid kidnapped. Oh, whoa,
whoa. Damn. Yeah. Wow.
Yeah, either one of those. I mean, pretty much all the white officers in this movie except for Taylor Taylor is the kind of the least probably got
on my nerves. I don't know what it was about. He got on my nerves. I didn't trust him. Again, there was something to me that felt
No, I totally get it very annoying, very much like a like a white PMC liberal. You know, he'd be that he'd be he'd be the guy today. That would be like, feel like, well, yes, I believe black lives matter. But you know, like, like, why did why did they have to play the music so loud? You know, like, that's who has done yeah.
Yeah, they can matter to the datastore. Exactly. Honey, what am I going to tell my bridge club.
Our last award is a star is scorned. This goes to the supporting character that this movie should actually be about, which is going to be hard because no argue there. There are a lot of I'm gonna give it to. I don't remember the character's name, but Patti LaBelle is character. Oh, that I think that's like a whole that is no, it's like a whole
to be a black woman business owner in this time
with all these so I mean, establishment? Yes. Oh,
they're so confident. Yeah, she had no fear in the whole movie. There's never a moment where she walks around with any sort of fear around all these men in her establishment,
and the songs that she sing. It's interesting the role that music plays in this film. It's like that None of it is superfluous. Like every lyric that they choose where, you know, they're truth telling in every song and I love that and unreal. And this is the blues.
The blues is supposed to do.
I'm gonna go with private Henson. I want to one of the news of the moon. I don't know what it was, I was just like, extremely compelled by his character he plays be at he plays piano beautifully. He is very distrustful of authority. And the actors performance, I was just like really charmed by him. So like just based on like, even though he got like some of the least amount of screen time, every time he was on, I was like, I want to know more about this guy. So I'm giving it to private Henson,
interesting. There's a character I can't think of the actor's name, I think his name's Woogie. He's like the the guy that ends up running the platoon when the when the sergeant is killed. And I thought his character was interesting, right? Where he got his stripes taken. He was trying to get his stripes back. And he's like, I have a family. And you'll understand why I have to do these things. Because I have a family. And I think he kind of speaks to a lot of people in this country. You know, why can't you know, so and so be politically active with me? It's like, well, you know, life is an MFR. And it's, it's kicking them in the, in the ass, and they're trying to keep a head above water. And sometimes you don't want to make waves, you're just trying to exist, hopefully move up enough where you can get out of your precarious situation and, and move on, you know, and I think his career, I think those characters are always interesting, because that's, that's whoever, whatever I'm doing. I'm always talking to that person. I try not to talk to the choir, I try to talk to the person that is least likely to give a damn thing I'm saying, because they're trying to survive. Alright, well,
those were the words. And the last thing, Jason, before we wrap, we like to talk with our guests about how you choose to practice your anti-capitalism in your day to day life. And it could be anything, it could be like, you know, a practice you engage in a group you work with. I mean, I you, I know you have this podcast. So that's already something. So if you want to talk more about that you can, but whatever, that whatever that stirs in you that question,
you're asking a hard question. And I hope it won't tear up. It was Father's Day recently, and I am a father of four beautiful beige children. And one of them is coming to see me tomorrow. And I think what I try to do with my show with my writing with my music with my life, is to show them another way I try to teach them as much as I can, about why I'm not a fan of the system in which we live in why the system in which we live in is grounding them in their their mother and stepfather up to powder. And, you know, hope that maybe they're part of the solution to get us out of this because I don't have all the answers. So I guess that's what I do. I just try to dad my way with these four, you know, awesome little people. me the one that's coming as a 24 year old woman, but who wants to get into teaching? So I'm excited about that. So maybe, maybe we're headed in the right direction? I don't know. But that's, that's what I tried to
do. That's beautiful. Thank you for sharing that with us. And Happy Father's Day. Yeah. Jason, work in our audience find you and your work
every Tuesday through Thursday at 6pm. Pacific time at this is Revolution podcast. We definitely live stream on YouTube and on Saturday morning. Morning for me at 9am. This is Revolution podcast. We're also an audio podcast wherever you get your podcasts we are in the top 40 of music shows on Apple.
Okay, yeah.
That's kind of cool. I didn't put it in there. As a political show, I put it in as a music commentary smart. That's where you can find me. I also write a column in Sublation. Magazine, this should be a new one coming out shortly that we kind of hit on a little bit. Talking about our ideas around authenticity, using the Milli Vanilli case, as a great example. So hopefully you guys get that and I'll send it to you before it comes out. So you guys can get it first.
That would be awesome. It was was such a pleasure to speak with you to connect with you to talk about this film. Thank you so much for being on.
Yeah, thank you, Jason.
Thank you guys for having me. Love fun.
Thank you all so much for listening. Make sure to follow us on Instagram and Tiktok and if you've been enjoying the show, please consider becoming a supporter. You can find all of that info at MVC pod.com
For now Next week's movie, we'll be watching the 2000 stoner comedy. Dude, Where's My Car? Wow, you don't want to miss that one. Well, you don't want to miss a rewatch on that one.
No, you know. Thanks, everyone. We'll see you later. Bye
