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Uprising. So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropist, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world. So let's get started. Hey, Becky, our community is in for such a treat today, y'all let me take you back. Yeah, I gotta take this back and do a little tone setting before I introduce our guests. We have an incredible member in the community who lives in Kenya, Becca cats, and I got a DM in the community from her. And she said, You know, I'm starting to binge, your content, I'm starting to get the feel of this community. And I just have this strong pull that I need to connect you to Lindsay Fuller, She's the executive director over at the teaching Well, and what they are doing over there is something that needs to be wholly integrated into the nonprofit into the social impact and probably, frankly, into the business world into our sectors because it is restorative healing. It is paradigm shifting. And we're all going to come and learn today. So it is my great privilege and honor to introduce you to Lindsay Fuller, she is this incredible leader and Executive Director. She's a former teacher, school administrator, district leader Don't you know how passionate I feel about public education. And she is highly skilled and navigating complex systems with this eye towards strategic change management and communication that really cascades. She has this fierce advocacy for people on the margins. And she builds this human centered, anti racist system to inform strong adult school climates. And her background story is crazy and so fascinating. And I honestly like I want to hold a little space to talk about it. Because I do think this is such a special part of you, Lindsay, because you are a black female leader, you're an indigenous mother. I mean, you are the most interesting woman in the room. And so I absolutely love the way that Lindsey shows up, leads with heart, the first time I ever met her, she did have like a healing sort of affirmation, before we even had a conversation to set the tone. And that is what you're about to get from this incredible conversation. So Lindsay, welcome to the podcast. We are so excited to just sit at your feet and learn from you today.
Oh, thank you. I've never been introduced that way that was fancy. When you were like, Let's, let's talk about who you are. I was like, Ooh, there's some tea there. But hopefully this is the organic loose leaf version
has to be I just think the way that you were approaching your work at the teaching. Well, I think the way that you treat your employees, I think the way that you come at problems in such a humane and centered way is something I think that we're all going to draw something from today, but I want to back it up. Because before we get into the work, we want to get to know the human. And we want to know about Lindsey, we want to know about growing up and what informed this justice seeking side of you and how did you fall into this impact work?
All the things oh, I mean, yeah, I grew up here on Aloni land in Oakland and Berkeley. In the Bay Area. I'm a bay kid Halaby Hey, what's up big you know, climbing trees and swimming in rivers, but also like being in this urban context where inequity is front and center, right you can't really ignore the power of the intergenerational like intercultural connection. We're on holy land here. And also the hills versus the flats and kind of what's happening with the socio political context, the kind of like progressive movement, but also very much the kind of racism sexism homophobia that we're still grappling with here. We haven't arrived but we're in this little like Mecca. It's a really fascinating place to grow up. And I was a legacy educator, I am a legacy educator. So my father taught my mother taught she she retired after 42 years in the classroom, teaching the kids of the kids, right? And I was raised in the classroom was like, What are you going to do while you watch TV at night, you're gonna like grade papers from a very young age, you're sick lay under the desk in the back of the room, you know playdates like, with the students of my, of my parents. And so, to me, I was raised that education is the social justice movement of our generation. And to like, actually liberate communities, we've got to bring critical literacy and all that that means, right. And so that's a little bit about me, I'm a mama, and a wife and a friend and an advocate, I had a colleague, say to me, You must be exhausted. It must be exhausting being you because you see issues in everything, and you're ready to fight every battle. And I think that that was like some of my own trauma survivorship where I was fighting and I was fighting constantly just like pushing up against systems and really having to mature into the the reckoning that this is a marathon and not a sprint. Yeah, indeed, you know, and so the teaching while has been an intervention for me, it's it's a reciprocal benefit. It's not just a job for me, it's, it's changing my life, it's making me a better wife, a better mom, a better friend, a better leader, because we're saying we can't, we can't overlook wellness.
Yes, I mean, it's just it comes through the screen comes through the audio of you talking about your love for your family, but also just for the legacy that they have, and the power of teaching and the power of what that does for communities. And I just, I want you to continue your story. Because when I hear about the teaching, well, I mean, and now knowing more of your background, I'm like, of course, this makes so much sense to pour into this level of work, but kind of connect the dots of what you do and what that origin story look like.
Mm hmm. Yeah. I mean, I would have never guessed I'd be at a wellness organization or a nonprofit. I think this surprised everyone, and they slid in my DMs, let's be honest.
That's what happened.
That's actually what happened, right? And it's like, you know, I was, I thought I would always be in schools, or in district work. And after a decade of trying to wrap around the most marginalized students, I kind of hit this wall where I was like, okay, like, how are we going to enact trauma sensitive continuity of care, when there's a revolving door of adults? Right, and I kept being met with these messages of, you know, well, if your systems are strong enough, it shouldn't matter if people transition. And actually, I fundamentally disagree. We need strong systems. And when we keep people, right, when the students of my mom are able to come back for 42 years and say, Ms. Fuller still in that classroom, the last 2729 years, she taught within the same space. There's something that says My community is stable. I'm home here, I can return I can come back to myself. Right. And that that village, approach to socializing, raising, loving up our young people. That's that's schools can be central. Yeah. to that process. And so the teaching was created for teachers, by teachers here in Oakland now is national, but we are we are still deeply California rooted and deeply Oakland rooted. And it's really, I think, a group of former teachers, former leaders, current healers, who are building the organization, we needed to stay in the classroom. Like that. That's really it. Right? Yeah.
I mean, I couldn't agree with you more. And I am also like, Legacy educator, my mom is a teacher, my sister has a teacher, my sister in law is a counselor and a middle school God lover, and thank her for that service. Yeah. And there's just something about talking with a child modeling, safety, empathy, service, justice. And I think these things I mean, this is the formative years, where kids are shaped by these experiences and I but I, it's not lost on me that these tenants these values, they hold true well into your adulthood. And I think what you're doing here, it the teaching well is just very revolutionary. And you and I have had conversations about your ethos there, how you treat people how you hire, and I want you to talk about how that ethos has been intertwined in your work. And I want you to talk about the impact that you've seen that it's had.
Yeah. And before I talk a little bit more about the teaching Well, something I want to name when you're saying we're modeling for young people I socio emotional learning SEL initiatives are everywhere, right? It's like one of the sexy phrases we're seeing in our field. And what we're not acknowledging is that for the majority of the adults in the building, we never received direct instruction, right around sel. We also right frame things as soft skills. But actually self management, self awareness, social awareness, right, responsible decision making, forming healthy communication across difference, those are some of the hardest skills, yeah, skills that folks don't master their entire lives. And so I really feel like the modeling that we're doing is starting with the adults were saying, We can no longer bypass the educator to get to the student. When we have experiential learning, modeling and instruction of SEL, for adults. They're like, Oh, I'm demystifying what it means to be a circle keeper, to bring students together to engage in difficult conversations, to take the risk of saying, let's talk about identity. And I might not have the right words. Yeah, and this lesson plan mate might need to get set down, but I'm here with the human, and we choose each other, we're going to lean towards each other. And that, for me, is is a part of the modeling. It's not just for students, it's we've got to start with the the inner children, the big kids in the building, right, which are all of us. And so, you know, at the teaching, while we're really thinking about the adult ecosystem, and we're thinking a lot about, you know, what are the intrapersonal and individual needs? We're talking about? What are the policies, practices and systems that are pushing folks out? Pulling them up towards leadership burning through them? Right, and how do we create conditions for folks to to thrive and be sustained and, you know, have longevity with I think there's a crisis for any any of us that are parents, right? I'm not sure if folks will retire from the classroom. Yeah, for this next generation, in these current conditions. So how do we paradigm shift and say teaching is the desirable position like that is the work? Yeah. Right. Where's the reverence? Where's the respect? Where's the the health and the the wraparound supports for the sacred folks that are co parenting with us?
Yeah. I mean, it really is that village mentality. And I mean, for us, our final core value of our company is that community is everything. And we are not meant to do any of this life or this work alone. In fact, it is very much encumbered by our ability to be vibrant, to be connected humans to be growth oriented. And so I love that you're going there. I don't want you to stop. So
no, I mean, I think that was great. I keep I keep thinking of you lifting the human element of this, that we're showing up as people to be stewards of the kids that are coming through our lives. I mean, whether that's in the teaching classroom, or through our missions, or wherever, in our families and our neighborhoods, and my wife was a teacher. So she was a high school English teacher went through college together, you know, all those things. We don't talk about this stuff in preparing for college, you know, it's like a absolute gap. And so maybe you could connect for us, like, how would he else programs kind of intercede in that aspect? And how are you serving people today, specifically through the teaching well, and your programs?
Yeah, I mean, he, there's so much there, right. In the same way, we aren't prepared or receiving SEL instruction. We're also not necessarily talking about, you know, anti racist pedagogy or systems change efforts, or restorative practices, though they should be embedded at a tier one level for all college students. And frankly, we should do it in high school, because not everyone chooses that as their post secondary placement, right. But a lot of what we're doing is kind of embedding ourselves, frankly, into a school adult culture. And one of our colleagues, Lena Mae says, no mud, no Lotus. And I think something that makes us different as a education consulting organization is that a lot of folks come in and they want the Kumbaya. Like we have these beautiful trainings. And, you know, we have these fancy pamphlets, these handouts, and we want you to go and try it on, you know, and I'm really like, what's in the shadows here? Who's furthest from the, you know, furthest from the center? Who are we not seeing who we not hearing? Who's in the back of the training rolling their eyes? Is that a trauma response? Have they been harmed and former peds? What do they need to actually figure out how to be in community to choose the other adults in their building? And so we're working at those three levels, individual, interpersonal, systemic, we're doing things like wellness coaching for staff, executive coaching for leaders, we do landscape research, which really differs because it's saying what's working here but also what's pushing you away from your values from your health from sustainability? retention. And yeah, we do do sexy PD.
The marketers like it
wants to go to a meeting, that could have been an email, right? The amount of of like week professional development that educators, we're all teachers, we know good teaching. And so we bring good teaching, but a lot of our content is around connected communication, stress, resilience, right, working through the somatic responses, that perpetuate implicit bias, right, because we know when folks are stressed and fatigued, or activated in their trauma, they're more likely to engage in exclusionary discipline, we're gonna see increased referrals, suspensions, we're gonna see lashing out in the staff lounge, it's like road rage in the kitchen, we're also going to see folks using their mental health days, as opposed to like advocating or tailoring supports, and I'm all here for mental health days, right. And we've seen a snowball effect, where you have so many educators stacking their mental health days, their crisis days, that actually all of the responsibility is shifting on to certain folks who aren't taking any days off. It might be the folks gearing up for parental leave. Right? It might be the Black and Brown staff who are hourly, who don't get paid as well and can't take the time off. Right, it might be the new educator who doesn't feel they have the voice and agency to take time off. And so we love boundaries, and boundaries often favor the privilege. Right? And so how do we shift the narrative from self care to collective care, so that everyone can be well in the building?
Okay, mic drop,
total Mic drop. I mean,
because self care, so we had this conversation, it's been probably a year on the podcast, and is the first time ever considered it in my life. But self care can't be done by yourself, you know, like to really lean into this, it is a community and it is kind of that interpersonal piece. So I want you to riff on this, because I feel like, especially in our sector, I was on a team of 10 people, you know, in my most recent career, but a lot of days, I would describe it as I felt like I was on an island, because my responsibility was such that I felt all the pressure of it, you know, I felt kind of isolated and what I was tasked to do. So can you talk about that? I feel like this is a huge piece that could really be revolution, wellness.
2.0. Yeah, so
Well, I mean, we watched a self care was weaponized, especially during the peak of the pandemic towards educators. What I mean by that is, I was seeing a lot of narratives that were like, you know, why aren't teachers eating really well, they're working from their dining room table, they're right next to the kitchen. You know, like, why aren't they working out, they're at home, they don't have to commute. You know, gosh, they're only doing, you know, three hours in zoom. But educators have to reinvent what it meant to teach and to learn, and to collaborate in a new tech world, while students whose lifelines where many students especially in you know, diverse communities are anchored in schools, that's where they get their food, it's where they get mental health supports, it's where they get wraparound interventions, right? It's, it's where many caring adults are centered for them. And so I've watched that occur, and we've seen that occur. And so it's like as if a you know, a massage is gonna offend systemic racism. We're here for bodywork. I love a good massage. You know, it might help me cope through some of the tensions, the constriction I'm having after a stressful or, you know, harmful event. But that's not actually shifting self care is often not shifting this, the oppressive forces the systems, right, the supervisory dynamics that we actually need to change in our schools, people management, the human relationships. That's really what we need to center. Because what we're finding out the teaching well is folks aren't leaving because of kids. Educators are not leaving because of kids. They're quitting their bosses, or they are running from toxic adult cultures. And so for us, when we say we celebrate self care, we celebrate, you know, you tending to yourself and figuring out what's restorative, how do you resource yourself, but we also very much talk about what is collective care mean? If I feel like energized, I'm resource today, I slept really well. I'm actually ahead of my unit planning. Maybe we look at the end of our agenda and see the distribution of deliverables. Can I take something off your plate? Do we ever say that?
Yeah. Or,
you know what, maybe we can delay some of these deliverables until the summer are these urgent, why are we doing more just for the sake of production? And so I think collective care, you know, is the way forward towards collective liberation.
I agree. I feel like we're for Good is is living, breathing proof of that, and then in the power of community and I and I don't want to like put us up on a pedestal. But anybody who gathers individuals allows them to be seen for who they are, with respect listens to their voice listens to that lived experience, I can tell you 400 Plus episodes in I am a different human being today. Because of that experience, my worldview has shifted exponentially my empathy. I mean, I'm a pretty deep Empath, but I am shocked by how it's been awakened. And there's something and I have to tell you, I've got energy and inertia in it, where I'm like, very curious and hungry, to know more, to learn more to connect more. And I really liked this concept that you all have at the teaching well, and it's, you know, that healthy people heal systems, and healthy systems heal people. And I love how you're breaking that down. And just the visual of seeing the person in the back of the room. And seeing their eye roll or seeing their disengagement really says that you are seeing all humans take, like, make this relatable. And talk about the connection of this work into fundraisers in the nonprofit sector. Talk about what we can learn from this and impact work, because I think that there are incredible parallels to the way that we educate community in the ways that we also serve community. So draw some of those lessons down and tell Nonprofit Professionals what they can take away from this and how they can begin to heal.
Yeah, well, I mean, first of all, I was shocked, the nonprofit sector is just as sick as the education system. We are. Right, and I use sick very, very strategically, because a lot of folks talk about the education system is broken, it's not broken. It's doing exactly what it was designed to do, which is perpetuate inequity, uphold the rights and privileges of the few, right, it's it's doing exactly what its initial design was intended for. It's why we have to paradigm shift. It's why we have to turn it on its head, the nonprofit sector is just as sick. And I think philanthropy I'm watching recently a mass exodus of school administrators, and they're landing in philanthropy. And they're, it's a cyclical pattern of burnout. Yeah, right. Like they're unwell there, too. And so to me, you know, there's this whole concept of the grass being greener. But really, if you don't take the time to intentionally cultivate a healthy work environment, healthy culture, open lines of discourse and decolonize systems, you're you're going to end up rupturing and perpetuating harm no matter where you are. Right. And, and so I would just say, philanthropy, let me tell you all about one of our favorite funders, I don't even name them. I don't know if I can do that. But for you, and mark all foundation in Colorado is incredible. They single handedly shifted for me, and for our organization, what we understood to be the the role and the potential relationship with a funder. They were one of the first organizations to grant us multi year, general operating dollars. Wow, thank you. And what that said to me as a black and indigenous leader, was that not just are they pro black and pro indigenous, it's actually that they trusted my leadership to know what my team and my organization needed.
That's it. That's it. That's the plan trust
there. I mean, and it's those it's the that's big, that's big enough, but they didn't stop there. During the peak of the pandemic, they allocated wellness grants, an additional wave of grants focused on wellness, depending on how big your org was, the amount, you know, varied. But we use that for two retreats in a single year, we paid for all of our teammates to have therapy every month, which now we've codified write that as a system, but we put it directly back into our team because as healers, we're holding a lot of space for folks in the field and who's taking care of the tenders. Right. And so mark off really saw us in that then they didn't stop there. They created collaboration grants, where they said we care so deeply about our grantor our granting portfolio, that we want you all to collaborate and support each other. So they're paying for a full year of work for us to help heal to other nonprofits that they fund. Wow. I mean, when you think about the way that they're investing in us, but then you're thinking about oh, we have some wellness orgs on on our suite like let's, let's have them help these other bipoc women led organizations. It's just been really revolutionary, you know, and I where I want to see you know, philanthropy go next is not just trusting grants not just the full service wellness and collaboration offerings, I really want to see some of the technical elements in philanthropy be interrogated and radically shifted. Mark Golf has update reports, you know, every six months. And they literally converted some of it to Google Forms, multiple choice, Google Forms, le gas, Pearl clutch. I mean, they really do know how many hours days, months go into grant reporting and grant writing, it is soul sucking, and it pulls me off the frontline of supporting educators to stay in our schools. That small shift was monumental for our internal team operational sustainability. Right. And I love that we just were connected through you, Becky, to just fund and they're revolutionising with a common app. Yeah. Hi, yada, yada. Like what? It's like, how do we interrogate some of the ways that we're perpetuating burnout? In philanthropy? Yeah, who has time for that? It's really well resourced organizations, not the tiny nonprofits like us, that are just trying to make it that are comprised of majority bipoc, queer folks, women, parents, let us access this funding. It's our birthright to heal and to be well help us enact this dream, right? Like, I'm inviting philanthropy to consider. Are your systems helping? Or are they harming and call us because also will take you further.
I mean, what beautiful vision on every side of you, knowing how to activate and to have that relationship, to have that trust, but also on the vision of that organization to say, we believe so much in this cause that it starts from within like, understanding that we got to take care of the people closest that are delivering the services to, and I think that is so much what we talk about about building a vibrant or healthy culture that can attract the right people, it has to start with from within, you know, yes. And I know you do so much work in the organizational trauma space, and you've brought it up in this conversation. So I wonder if you would take us and talk to us about how do you build an organization that suddenly powerful movements of change, but a space that allows people to heal that are coming out of maybe organizational trauma or other traumas in their life?
Yeah, maybe we all find help. Right? Yeah, I mean, we're seeing it too. And so, you know, my, my biggest goal is, as a parent, is to build a childhood, facilitated childhood that my children don't need healing from. And my biggest goal, as a leader is to build an organization that my employees don't need to heal from, they can heal within, I'm not contributing to an employment, trauma, story and narrative. In fact, they leave lighter, they leave with what we call corrective experiences, where I see you, and I'm your inner child's in this space in the supervisory meeting, I'm not here to punish you. I told my team, I'm gonna make a lot of a lot of mistakes, but I will not abuse you. And I will honor integrity, I will live our values, and I will be accountable to that. And so, so much of what we're doing with the nonprofit clients, which frankly, has turned into a whole nother line of work for the teaching wells, how do we stabilize and heal nonprofits so that they can be spaces of healing and not harm? I think that when we when we're talking about employment trauma, we need to be thinking really differently about how we're training HR professionals, administrators, recruiters, right? So often we're seeing behaviors as unprofessional that are actually an act of trauma response. Give us an example. Well, I mean, when you see someone show up, and they're questioning, right, like, we always leave the portion in our hiring processes around like, what questions do you have for us? And the moment someone asks a question around, you know, What's your stance on the corrective progression? What type of supervisory support might we receive? Are there systems that you're interrogating? For to increase anti racism? We watch this folks bristle, like how dare you, you're coming to apply to us, and you're asking us about our systems. And to me, it couldn't be an act of trauma response is also healthy, it's healthy to have an interrogation mirrored to you, we should take that as a compliment. We should take that as them being invested. And we also might want to hold curiosity because through a judgmental lens, we say why are you like this? Right? Folks joke with that term other way like this? Instead, through a trauma sensitive lens, we might ask what's happened to you? And so meeting those moments with curiosity first, to say, Do you have an example of systems from your previous organization or through your career? err, that hasn't served you. Which would you like us to talk further about? Right? Like I welcome that, you know, like this is reciprocal choosing. And so we do a lot around hiring work in our org to try and restore folks, we may not be able to choose every candidate, but we can stay in right relationship. We can provide corrective experiences. We even write feedback to folks in between rounds. Right, like we really saw you, you're gifted for our finalists who aren't selected don't get the offer, we actually do meetings, Zoom meetings to like speak directly with them. Because when you think about how many folks on the margins have impostor syndrome, yeah, leave with a story that I'm not worthy. Right, that I that I don't deserve to be here that the question I asked at the end, I should have just demonstrated compliance. That's not what we want folks to take away. We want to say we see we love you. And when McKinsey Scott calls will hit you up, because we're bringing you on to write. But taking the time for folks to feel validated, affirmed and seen in your applicant process, I think is one of the most transformative things we can do as organizations.
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Want to give a shout out to you all, if you're someone who is very curious or focused this year on sustainable hiring, check out the teaching well, because I've had an extended conversation with Lindsay about humane terminations and transitions. You know, it feels like you know, you're doing something right. Lindsay, when, and you've given me this quote from a client, this is the kindest rejection letter I've ever received. And it's like, how can we relook at severance? How can we go beyond it? How do we look at Cobra extensions? What are the right questions to be asking? And then there's just such a humanity in this. And I just am here for this revolution. And I'm going to tell a little story. Can I tell on us, John, because I think this story is so important. But yeah, a couple days ago, we you know, we're going through our process of getting a guest on and we're, you know, sending scripts, and we're getting calendar invites. And we send our contract over to Lindsay and the teaching well, and she comes back to us, and I'm exposing We Are For Good hear in the greatest way of like, don't do this, because we are learning as well. And she said, Hey, there's a couple things in your contracts that don't feel good does that are discriminatory, that minimize my likeness that minimize my voice that lose control that takes away control of our ability to control our narrative. And we thought back Oh, my gosh, we had these contracts written by an Oklahoma law firm, before we even turned on this podcast in were enlightened to how harmful some of this language could be. So I want to publicly say, Lindsey, one, thank you for living your values. Thank you for bravely calling that out to us. Because we don't want anybody to feel that way. And our house and guess what it's going to improve our ability to connect and foster these discussions in a very safe and loving environment. So thank you, Lindsay, for living your values and holding our feet to our values as well. I think it's a really important step. And honestly, I feel like it strengthens the bond between individuals and organizations when we listen. And when we consider that and say, Hey, I'm still on a journey of unlearning. And thank you for making me a student in this. So thank you once.
Yeah, and you know what it's like, this is this is actually the work when we just have a moment ago, we're talking about how do we receive and discern when we or others are in their active trauma or in a wound. And to me that was an example where Lindsey eight years ago, five years ago, would have fired off or right Rapid Response email around, there's the term exploit in your language, it literally says exploit, oh my gosh,
I'm melting into the floor.
Right? Right and, and instead, what I was able to do was get into my body, as we say the teaching will be absolutely centered in my values and in my vision for this partnership, trust in and lean towards, and say, Hey, Becky, like, I'm gonna call you and not call you out, I trust you. We have this synergy every time we meet, I don't think this reflects you and who you want to be. And I can't consent to this. But I want to be in relationship with you. And to me, that is the evolution and the healing that I'm on in my own trauma survivorship journey. And that's how it manifests in, in communication, in artifact review, in policy change, right and in inviting in other marginalized folks, and you could have been like, oof, she's too much work. And I've been in situations where there's that story of the angry black woman that gets, you know, brought into the space. But I I'm like, I have some anger, first of all different sacred rage, right sacred rage. But actually, my advocacy ensures that folks on the margins can partner with you can have their visions amplified can, you know, be blessed with your community? And the email I got back from you, my nervous system just like expanded, because immediately you were just so human centered, you were like, oh, word. I don't even remember this. We are going to interrogate this. And here's some other language. And y'all this happened yesterday. Yeah, yeah. And I'm here today, right? Like we chose each other. And that's what's possible. And that's what we're trying to get nonprofit folks, and school leaders and educators to do is to choose each other through the mud to get to the lotus.
I mean, my heart is so full. Yeah. And I think I have to have we quote, kindergarten a lot around here, because this seems very appropriate here. But the little things like deeply matter. And when we're talking about living out our values, the fact that you would call in somebody that you're going to reject, to just give them space to love them. And to set them out better than when they came in your door, is about one of the most beautiful expressions of living that value out of helping to support whether that person can ever positively impact your mission or not, it is putting that energy out into the world. And more of that happening is will come back to you. And I think we see that you know, and just showing up the right way. So thank you for that. Thank you for calling us in on that.
And I actually thought it was a gift.
Oh my gosh, it's such a gift. I really do. We're both so embarrassed to I mean, totally embarrassed. Oh, how is that?
How many people have got? That's like 400 people that have seen? Dang, doctor, they
have it, right? Because we're just like rushing through life. We're just we're we're humans doing not humans being and you met the moment? Right? We met it together. And what comes next is a long journey of partnership. And that to me is that's the work. So I love that. You know, Becky, I want to I want to connect back to what you were asking just before you share you told on yourself, you Erickson little it was the tea again, you know, that's the theme. That's a key part of the tea ceremony. Little spills here. But you know, transition is always hard. But that, to me is transition is hard. But it doesn't have to be traumatic. And so when we talk about, you know, a candidate sending us that quote around like this was the most like humane kind, rejection I've ever received, or whether it be what you're talking about with humane severance or humane, what I call an off ramp. Right? While we haven't had a lot of that in the teaching? Well, we've been blessed that our team really has stayed. I'm coaching a lot of nonprofits and administrators with frequent transitions. And in particular, in the nonprofit sector, we have more flexibility than what a school system does. And so when I see that, you know, someone's not a fit. Or despite coaching and professional development and multiple interventions and restoration work. It's just not landing. We also need to think about, right, the false dichotomy of like, protect the
business. Yeah. Oh, I've seen that.
I think like there's a duality both can be true. And there's there's a middle path as our teammate bond says, and so, you know, for me, I've been coaching a couple of nonprofit executive directors to think about well, okay, can you extend Cobra? Or can you pay for three months of therapy during their transition? Or, okay, if you have a trauma sensitive off ramp, you've given a termination date or they you've co created Ideally, when they're off boarding, how are you communicating that with the staff? Are there protected hours Two hours a week where you can be on the clock and be doing job applications. Right? Like, what does it mean for you to continue with health benefits for your children? Right like this is, this is how folks leave without venom in their mouth. This is how folks leave and are able to transition into their next phase. And this is how you can stay in right relationship. And we actually have that that power that we need to yield with a whole lot of responsibility and integrity, when it comes to transitions.
Amen. I mean, such a light and centering just like the dignity of humans that we get to do this life with. So I mean, we create space for conversations and storytelling around philanthropy. And you know that words much bigger than the writing the big checks, but this idea of just love expressed of to humankind, whenever you would take us back to a moment of your journey, maybe it's for the teaching Well, or maybe it's something personal, where you just saw philanthropy, and it's stuck with you over the years.
Yeah, I mean, outside of I've already named Mark off the landmark. Well, we love all of our funders recently, and I'll leave this philanthropic body unnamed, but we were we took part in a convening where the entire portfolio was going to be coming together. And, frankly, we were concerned about some of the other organizations and what we had seen in some colonial behaviors, right? Where there was like appropriation or sharing of ideas in spaces that were then all of a sudden on folks websites, and we're like, Oh, right. Intellectual property is a really, really sensitive place, especially for folks who haven't historically had a seat at the table and in the wellness industry, right, which has perpetuated this narrative that it is white women in Lululemon doing yoga on the beach, and has created the context where many queer folks, many men are male identified folks, many bipoc folks think a wellness is not for me. And actually, that's a part of what we're doing. It's a radical reclamation. Right? It is it many of the wellness practices that are out here, their ancestry, their lineage come from global majority communities. Right? And so how do we actually remind folks, it's a reminder that this belongs to all of us, we can all be well, but I digress. So we were concerned about some of those, some of the other orgs that we were going to be in space with and I'm like, Oh, we're gonna sit there. And the intent of this gathering is for us to like, do a think tank to like, share innovative ideas, who this is our fiscal solvency. This is me being able to provide for my team and their families. This is a, you know, how do we get into spaces where we don't compete, we collaborate. But in order to do that, we can't be colonial. And so I had to put my big girl chonies on and column column meeting with the grantors. And I will have an inner story. I was like, oh, man, they're gonna think I'm stirring the pot, or, you know, here's this like, rambunctious again, right, that that stereotype of, of who I am and how I would show up. But ultimately, I was like, You're bringing together a bunch of bipoc, orgs. And if they share all of their trade secrets, you know, this could do some really significant harm. And the response we got from our project managers, our grant managers was like, Wow, thank you so much for your courage to bring this forward. We have no idea. But now we're making connections. And there have been other orgs that have felt similarly, we're bringing in an expert facilitator, we're going to invest in that we're going to set up a series of planning meetings. And we're going to invite you in the opening session to speak to this as we create norms for this convening. Wow. And that to me, was, again, a paradigm shift within philanthropy because it could have just been like, hush, take your money, come give your ideas or don't go, yeah. And instead, it was like, oh, there's a whole human element here. And you're actually thinking about your businesses, longevity, and we don't want you to leave again with trauma from an event we're hosting. Yeah, and it was a beautiful event. Beautiful event. So I just want to share that that like, those connections that happen between funders and nonprofits, have the potential to really liberate and extend the bounds of what's possible in our everyday work and also as we vision a healthier, more symbiotic relationship between those sectors. Right.
Okay. Um, incredible story. And, you know, I'm just sitting here thinking that the reason we initially connected was to talk about wellness, it was to talk about this ninth trend that we were really hyper focusing on for 2023 which is normalizing rest, but yet You keep sharing these stories, and it keeps reminding me, John of like, the seventh trend that we talked about this year. That was, how do you step into being a brave change agent, like Lindsey, there is so much power over and over and you lifting your voice. And I want people who are listening to understand this, that just because you lift your voice to challenge doesn't mean that something is negative is going to come back to you that it might and I want to be real with people about that. But I'm saying the challenge to us as human beings is how to have an open hand and an open heart when people are coming to challenge us and to look within ourselves. Because sometimes the funder steps up and says thank you, and you change, not only that situation, but you change the mindset. And it doesn't just affect your organization, it affects everybody that is tethered to that organization. And so I thank you for your bravery. I thank you for your frickin Moxie. Got a whole lot of and I think we need it. And I just keep thinking this is the way as you're talking, I keep thinking this is the way and so grateful for this conversation, we winding down, we end all of our conversations by asking our guests to share one good thing and wondering what your one good thing would be that you'd offer to the community today?
Well, I think it's a that duality is everywhere that two things can be true, my team gets probably tired of me always posting to it. But yes, we have to use our voice. And at what cost. The burden is heavier for folks on the margins. And so I'm working to live this, and I have not arrived, I always have the fire. But sometimes I need to float in the river. And so I think you're number seven, and you're number nine are interconnected. And they're not often acknowledged for folks with marginalized identities. There's a cost to me showing up and advocating and lifting my voice and challenging systems. And I need to rest also. And so I think for all the changemakers out there, Rest is your birthright wellness is your birthright. And we need to create more space and shout out to colleagues that are really at the teaching while exploring. We're done with Ally ship. We're interested in co-conspirator ship. And so I just got one last story for you. Can I do it? Oh my goodness. Okay, so was on a webinar, I was shocked during the webinar by some of the comments made. We felt railroaded we felt exposed, and frankly, there were just racist comments made. This was very early on. And I walked out of my office where several of my teammates were congregating in my front room because we were co working. And I'll never forget what Jill who's the white body teammate at the teaching, well said, she said, I don't understand every part of what just happened to you. But if you're hurt, I'm outraged. And then she went so far as to say, I'm not sure how to help. But one of the things that probably has to happen is an email to that organizations leader, can I draft it for you? And I share that story, because sometimes we think co conspirators ship is this, you know, flag waving, protesting in the street, you know, clearing your bank account to give us reparations, which we receive. Amen. However, sometimes it also says, let me do some of the cognitive lifting around what could make this better. Right, and there's the honoring of what do you need, but sometimes we're exhausted, and we don't know what we need. So give me a couple of containing options that allowed me to go walk outside, come back into my body, call my husband and let him know, hey, this thing just happened. And it hurt deeply. Right? And she drafted an email that I could then modify and send out and I just want to name that she enabled me in that moment to rest so that I could get my fire back, and then I let it Blaze but that to me is is how do we strike the balance? In the individual level, we have to be accountable to our own wrist at the interpersonal level, how do we show up as CO conspirators and at the systemic level to prevent these things from occurring when we have these positions of power, so I just hope everyone is resting with fire.
Be a Jill Yeah, community. Go be a Jill. Amen, buddy.
Be a Jill and that's the power of why self care can't happen by yourself. It is a community effort. And I mean, Lindsay, you are an incredible human. Thank you for everything that you've imparted on us today. And I just think of Like, all those listening are at different places in their journey. But there's so much hope in this conversation. There's so much hope and what you curate and provide through the teaching well, how can people connect with you all? How can they meet your team and just get connected to the work you're doing?
Come play on our website? I'd say socials, they're less dynamic, you know, but we're on LinkedIn, we're on Facebook, we're on Instagram. You can reach out if you're interested in partnership through info at the teachingwell.org. But really, probably just stay around with the We Are For Good podcast, because I'll be back. So you can play here to.
You'll darn well be back and I want to I want to end by honoring Lindsey is days away from having a child. And we want to send you off in this beautiful baby girl you're about to have. We want to send you off with good vibes healing, and just prayers that everything goes well and just keep up your work, my friend it is deeply important.
May she absorbed swiftly and come out with a job. Well let her rest for a little bit. For this opportunity, thank you for centering the teaching Well, and, you know, let's let's keep doing getting into good trouble. And so until we're all free.
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