Hey everyone, welcome to what is going to be our last episode of season three of the all the things ADHD podcast. Oh things always right at the end it just is like nap we're done. I am one of your co hosts Lee Skallerup Bessette
and I am another one of your co hosts the only other co host, Amy hope Morrison. Morrison.
We are currently recording in unfamiliar spaces both of us. So where are you Amy.
I am in a hotel room in London, Ontario, where I was not expecting to be because my child's two week of sleepaway camp got transformed into five days of day camp. But of course, sleepaway camp, you don't choose because it's close to your house. So I am 150 kilometers away from my own home, basically acting in the role of tent for a week. So I'm driving my kids to 25 minutes to the camp in the morning, and then coming back and sitting in the hotel all day, and then driving 25 minutes back to camp to pick them up and bring them back here. And I feed them takeout food, and then we watch Brooklyn nine, nine, and then we repeat, not a great week for me in this hotel room. Right. That's a good time.
So I'm a bit disrupted.
How about you, Lee? Where are you?
I am currently in our new unfinished was finished. But then when we went through the walkthrough of our place, so I should say, We bought a place we were renting previously. And we bought a place and decided probably about six weeks ago that like, hey, maybe we should try to buy a place. And then two weeks later had bought a place. More Three weeks later had bought a place and then three weeks after that moved,
which we did this weekend, you sound so mystified, right by all of this, we thought we should maybe buy a place and then we bought a place and then we were moving. Like like it happened to somebody else. Right?
Like, no, that's how I feel right now. Like it literally happened to somebody else. And because this was not in the plan for the summer. No, this was literally not in the plan for the summer. For me, for us. For our family, I signed us up for summer swim, I made all of these commitments, writing commitments online, because it's going to be a chill summer, right? You know, faculty are burnt out. So faculty, you're going to leave us alone in our Faculty Development Center. Hooray. And it was like a really chill summer, but then all of a sudden, we're moving. And again, we live in a very hot market, where we are in Fairfax County, which is just Washington, DC suburb. They're literally places that will go up or go on the market and sell in less than a day because people will make offers sight unseen. There are bidding wars where things will go several hundreds of 1000s of dollars above asking. And so we sort of started on this process, we were like, Okay, I think we should start doing this. And we've been thinking about it for a while. But now, I don't know why now was a good time. I don't know, my husband's side, he's like, we're gonna look for a place to buy it. I was like, All right, I'm sure. And also with the understanding that we didn't think it was gonna happen this fast, because, you know, we've had friends who have been trying to buy for for a year and a half. And every time they put in the offer someone out bids them or, you know, they can't find the perfect place. And we also had very narrow parameters for where we wanted to live, because the kids didn't want to change schools again. So it and we are at the lower end of the financial ability to pay for places where we are looking. We're looking for the worst house in the best neighborhood is what you're saying? Yeah, basically, basically, we're looking for the worst has already, but it had to have three bedrooms. Right. Right. At our price point. And so and so we knew like this wasn't going to be an easy find, and anything at our price point for what we were looking for, for where we were looking for, we're going to be in high demand. Right? Like, if we had, you know, if we had $5 million to spend, we wouldn't have a problem finding their place. I mean, if you had $5 million to spend, you'd be outsourcing the finding of the place to such that what we did, we did outsource the finding of the place we hired a a buyer realtor, and you know, thank goodness we did because she did all the heavy lifting, you know, like again, you know, found us the place, you know, helped us shape a an offer that was you know, she couldn't guarantee that would be accepted, obviously, but Would we, but like, we found a place, like really quickly made an offer on the place. It was accepted. And it was just like, oh, so it really does feel like it happened to somebody else like this was not a part of my summer 2021 plans? And he said, Yes. And then the day, the day we do the walkthrough of this place on closing, so we're about to go to close. And we do the final walkthrough and inspection. And there's water in the basement. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. And the basement was supposed to be my Well, it still is going to be but the basement was my space. This is where I was going to get to set up my office and my sewing and cast it was going to have her craft area. And I was just like, there goes my space. I'm the former owners are going to take care of it. It's all going to get done. But we are currently in a state of flux right now where the basement is torn apart and drying out. It's dry, but we're going on vacation next week. So like we were like we don't want workers in here this week. Could we just unpack and not have to worry about that worry about
get back? I'm reading a manga series with my kid. This is relevant. Trust me, I'll get there. Toilet bound always
always trusted that it's relevant. Come on. I know this now. Okay,
so we're reading toilet bound Chanukah cocoon. Anyhow, it's a it's about seven supernaturals ghosts, essentially, who live in this school. But anyhow, like the important thing is, this is a this one ghost two lives in the third stall in the girls toilet. That part's not relevant. But the part that's relevant is that the human assistant he winds up with it spends her time learning about like how you can tell when supernatural things are about to happen. And whenever she gets ankle deep in water, it's because she's in a boundary so so thinking of your your basement is the boundary between your shore and the far shore between the living and the dead between the human and the supernatural and shits about to go down when your ankle deep and water in this Vanga shit is about to go down. So it sounds like some shit has gone down. Oh, yeah. Are you in the boundary or said like to sum up so far? You made a long range decision that happened all of a sudden, which was to buy property, you were expecting that that was going to be fairly stressful and drawn out process because of how things have tended to go. But surprise, you found a place to buy right away and double surprise, you get to move right away. And you're like, But wait, this was my chill summer. And then further surprise is the basement was flooded. Is that Yeah, we're so far. Yes.
That's where we're at so far. A lot of unknown unknowns transpired there for Yes, yep. Um, and so you know. So that happened in this week. And they were cool with it that went actually pretty smoothly. You know, they're like, we will we are so sorry, we didn't know this has happened. We will definitely fix that. That shouldn't be because they completely redone the basement, like right. So this place, the place that we bought, and the reason why we got it is that it was an elderly man who used to live here and had to go into assisted living, but it was paid for. And so and but hadn't been fixed or renovated in a long time. So the kids took two years to renovate. So this place hasn't been the it hasn't been occupied in two years. And they just very slowly renovated it. And they did an amazing job renovating it like it's well, you know, we
did they because Well,
apparently, Well, no. So what what did what had happened, and this is this is, this is something that they couldn't foresee the eaves and like the water drainage goes underground. Right. So to push it away from the building industry goes underground, underground, it got clogged. It always does. So
the weak call system would get clogged. And in fact, that's an older building code. And so we do not allow people to send their drains underground anymore for precisely this reason. Can you tell building codes are one of my special interests?
Right. Oh, well, we were we're in an HOA so I'm sure it still has to be underground for Hoa right? Well,
I will say kids, anyone who's listening if you're going to renovate stuff in your house, deal with the mechanicals first make sure things are waterproof first before you put drywall up. That's my tip to you. Yeah,
yeah. Well, and that's basically what we're doing. So apparently they fix the underground stuff. They put a new pipe they've unclogged at all. But then it hasn't rained. So they tore everything out. Fix the front. We're, you know, dried out. I said wait. And we're just now waiting for rain. Right? Of course now it's not raining anymore. So we're waiting for rain to see if it really is fixed and we can put up drywall and do all the things and install new floors and all this right. We're waiting. Hopefully Fingers crossed. Fingers crossed it'll rain really hard like monsoon. One of those. Hope one of those tropical storms remnants of Hurricane sort of blows through while we're away but then it'll record the South Carolina, which means if there's a hurricane, we're gonna get hit with it. But anyways, not the point. So, so so now we're moving, right. So now we're moving, we know we're moving, we got the place, everybody's very excited. But now, we have to pack now. And so it's like, we've moved a lot and I get it. But like, this is the first move, where this is the first move where I think I really know. And I'm ADHD. And we've known about the kids or ADHD that we sort of knew in Fredericksburg. Well, we had a lot more lead time going back to that. So like we did, we packed really slowly and we purged a lot, because the kids were at that age where it was like, Look, a lot of this stuff is no longer age appropriate. So there's a lot of purging was a slow, kind of, and we were also downsizing. So a lot of throwing away a lot of Marie Kondo does this bring me joy, a lot of you know, just that I, you know, I don't want to see any of this stuff ever again, let's just get rid of it. And we're moving into a small space, which we had used very efficiently, we're still shocked at how much stuff as we ended up, we managed to get into the space. So part of the problem of going from this small space is that there is nowhere to put the stuff once it is packed, right? Because it is all stored away. So thankfully, it could because we had some overlap. So we took possession. And so we could start slowly moving things. But we're also old, so we're like, well take books. And after one load of books, we're like we're in our 40s This is stupid. Yeah. You know, we were already paying movers, but we thought no books aren't so bad. We're like, no, the
movies are thrown with you books are the worst. Yeah, like made out of rocks or something. Yeah, my book. Well,
my husband is like AIPAC is lagging get the most books possible in the box, which raise them like 1000 pounds, 1000, even if they're just the little ones. Um, but then the kids are also at an age where they want to pack themselves and they should be packing themselves.
Lee, I just had this conversation with Tom on Sunday. Because here I am in my hotel room, right? This necessitated the packing of bags, right. And so my child also is of the age where they should be able to pack themselves. And I said to Tom, like, I kind of want them to be a fully fledged adult so that they can pack their own stuff, or I want them to be a toddler where I will pack the bag, but this year between I do it myself. Stage just leads to massive amounts of procrastination, followed by existential dread, followed by tantrums. And then I wind up packing stuff, like two hours after my own bedtime and then we get here and you're missing half your things. Anyway, so was missing some of their things. So like, Mom, do you know where mine I was? Like, are you seriously gonna do that with me? Because you had this discussion? backing so so I'm with you. The backing the in between stage where your teenager thinks your neurodivergent teenager thinks that they can pack their own stuff that they're very offended that you think that they might need some help with that. So they will refuse your help until you are well past your own limits. And they are well past theirs. And then everyone will have a mental breakdown. And then the packing will get done very poorly.
Yes. The worst of all possible worlds. Yes. And I was so trying to avoid it. Because I told my kids but I tried to make it manageable for them and manageable for me to write. Yeah. So what I what I would say is is to them because they're at home and you know, no school and they go to swim team, but like basically they're just at home is fine. I said a bag in a box. Every day, you're going to have a bag of either trash your stuff to give away, and a box of your own stuff that you have packed. eminently reasonable, right. And we have two weeks. That's 14 bags and stuff to give away. And that's 14 boxes, which should be enough for all your stuff.
Yeah, I feel the patience and the love coming through in your voice. It's great.
Yeah. So you know, my my son needed a little bit it's still you know, 12 he's, you know, I can't pack I don't want to do this. I was just like, Okay, let's do this together. All right. What's that? Do we want to do all my keep that is that that's clean x? Can we put that please in the cartridge? Okay, let's but but he just he was good because he just wanted to get it done. So he could get back to his video games
quite right now. Right. best minds. Yeah.
Yeah. So I'm like, Okay, he's like, let's get it done. And some days we even got two boxes down because he said we're going to do the this thing today and it took more than one box. So we made it in two boxes. It was great. Right? Some some coaching but like I got it and we could sort of figure it out. My daughter on the other hand was like I am packing all of my own stuff. Do not tell me how to pack my own stuff. I do not want you touching my stuff. No one anything. Last Friday before we're moving her room. I don't even know how to pack. Yeah. Cassie, you need to pack Well, you never told me how I should pack. Because now here's the other thing about what I was doing with the bag in a box. As I was pleading with Cassie, in particular, my daughter in particular, I said, you know what's going to happen? If you're not packed by the time removing your father, his head is going to explode. And he is going to come here and pack for you which you are going to lose your mind over. And I said, I do not want to deal with that. So would you please for the love of God? pack a bag in a box every day?
Oh, my god, you're like living my life? Well, yeah, I've had the same conversation in my house, too. I actually said to my kid, we are going to be gone for five entire days. And it's going to be dude, time for dudes at home. It's just going to be Daddy, and the two pets. And Daddy has to walk by your room every day. And daddy hates that your room looks like a dumpster exploded. And if no one is here, if no one is here to say, Daddy, this is not your problem, right? I don't know what he's gonna do. I just don't know. And this guy actually said to Tom, Tom, I like to use you as a pretext for this. He's like, Oh, no, there's nothing untrue about that. It is true that I may freak out about this. But is it effective? Lee? No. It helped Cassie manage her own time. Did it help my child manage their own time? No, it did not. And did the blow up happen? Yes, it did. Yep.
I'd like Leo and I are just sitting there like, and then she gets mad. Right? She's like, well, how come Leo doesn't have to pack I'm like, cuz he's spinning. He's like, well, he has less stuff than I do. And I'm like, okay, so you're complaining about being spoiled? Like, let's let's take a step back here for a second. Yeah. Would you like me to get rid of some of your stuff, then if you don't like having all this stuff, but back to the thing that the thing that's so hard about this, this moving business, or this packing business that we're both going through their own kids now is like, I don't know about you, Lee, but I also really struggle
with getting the stuff done. Right. All I can do to muster up the executive function for me, right. And I know, I'm like, I have to do this before this time of day. And I know I have to get my laundry done the day before, I'm going to do that. And I know I have to, you know pre stock, my travel bag with doubles of everything so that I have fewer things that I actually have to pack every time and I've like, put all these systems in place to keep me from having a tantrum and a meltdown and forgetting half of the important things and I've like finally got a system work that works for me. But I don't have anything left for my child who, who has exactly the same problems as me but is unwilling to accept the consequences of failing to get the stuff done. And so now all the temper tantrums I've avoided with my own packing I now have to engage in because I'm packing for somebody else at 11 o'clock at night.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so it was so anyways, we got packed, it happens.
Well, I wish people could see you You're just like sort of downcast resigned you like it when it happens. Like you're doing it in the passive, right, like, packing took place. I don't know,
did it I don't know how you would have seriously like it just like I did some things when the other thing is, is again, it's like you've got a very I my husband is so neurotypical, it actually kind of hurts, like he's like on the like, I don't know, on the high end of the neurotypical where he's so logic and so rational. And he has it and it drives me crazy and I tried to deal with it and I'm like trying to negotiate around this with my own kids who are just like we're all agents of chaos. And we got like rational man with like free agents of chaos. So I'm trying to have empathy for that but at the same time trying to like negotiate with the kids to be like but there's also like he had my husband has a plan in his head about how this is going to go what we're going to pack what we're going to move how this is going to work like there's a whole strategy that he does not articulate to the rest of us Oh, because it is so but because it's so obvious to him he brings doesn't get that we don't get it.
Well, I mean, this is true of most plants, right? Most plants that are going to be successful are going to need to be sort of explained to the people who have to participate in them right like it's not it's so easy that so and so could do it sure it is but not if they don't know what they're meant to be doing.
Yeah, right. And so I will be in a sense of and so this is where I saw that I saw a meme and I shared it on Facebook about like ADHD paralysis right where you have like what the person lying on the couch and there's mess all around and I'm like that's not messy but anyways you get the point and the like you know the like what people see oh my gosh they're so lazy what how could they not care about the mess and like what's actually going on is like, Oh my god, I don't have to clean up I'm such a slob I hate you know, I hate myself I don't even know where to get started. And you know and just like that there's the running text in the back of the screen of like the running commentary and I'm so I'm trying to like, remember that this is what we were all going through and this is what my daughter is going through with both with packing and now unpacking. But at the same time, I'm also sort of saying like, because I'll do things and I'll do things in my My own sort of idiosyncratic way, right? My husband will stand there and be like, what are you doing? And like, I'm thinking, like, why are you packing that way? And I'm like, because he's like, Oh my god, like, either and so I'll all do the paralysis thing where I'm just like, and it's a temper tantrum, but it's totally, totally Richard's like fine, you know, all the back and then, you know, yeah. And, and it just, it's so yeah, so it's like this is it, but it happened on such a tight timeline. Yeah. Like, it feels like it feels like a year ago now at this point. Right. When it was like last week, you live the whole lifetime. I lived a whole lifetime and well And to make matters more interesting, so talking about the sleepaway camp, I don't I don't think we've talked about this and if I have I'm sorry. My daughter went my both my kids went to sleepaway camp and this was like, you know, before that, I don't know I think we were packing at that point. I don't even remember time has no meaning. But they were going to sleepaway camp. And we had actually planned my husband and I planned to go to New York City. We're gonna be like, we're gonna go to New York City for three days, and it's gonna be nice. We're gonna come back, and we're going to pack and we're going to like, this is sort of our last little chance to rest before the whole chaos of the move. A phone call Sunday, we dropped off Sunday, get a phone call Sunday night, your daughter isn't feeling well. Oh, boy. And I can tell by the way they're saying and describing she's spiraled. I'm like she's overtired. Yeah, this girl goes to bed at two in the morning and sleeps until noon. But we got her up early this morning to go to camp. It's now 10 o'clock. You've like hiked her all around. She's had her ankle surgery. her ankle is hurting her. She's exhausted. She just needs to go to bed. We are at the train stations. Monday morning. You need to come pick up your kit. Oh, come on now. Well, so to make matters, so we're mad or frustrated? We're not mad or frustrated. Like, you know, signal mad. You're
just disappointed. The
No, not even while Yeah, disappointed not in her, but just be not having to be able to do it. Right. And then I understand and I'm like, these counselors are not paid nearly enough to deal with her when she was having a great time. He's just like, off.
Got parents at all at this point.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, they put him in a room with a bunch of 14 year old boys. So he came back and we were like, you need to stop swearing this much like it's coming from us. Like, dude, this is a lot
like Canada levels of swearing. You're like,
yeah, yeah, yeah, still. Yeah, you were like, he's like, we were always worried all the time. They're like, Alright, fine. Talk to me again, when you're 14. But like right now you are 12 Please don't. We don't get in. I don't even sweat the sweat around you come up. But so I go get her on. So we we go back to the train station. We are back home, cancel everything. I drive out to go and get her. And it's about it's about an hour. It's not too far. It's about an hour. hour and a bit. She cries the whole way home. Oh my goodness, the whole way home. So it turns out she was assigned because it's all this COVID stuff and everything. And so she because she turned 14 in April, she wasn't eligible to be a counselor, because you have to be 14 by January 1. And I can understand what they were thinking. But they stuck her with another 14 year old counselor. Oh, oh, as her not being a counselor, and then a bunch of like 10 year olds, right. And so this 14 year old counselor, she's like, oh, I've never actually been to this camp before. I've never been to camp. And Cassie was like not having it already. She's like, I'm not dealing with this. And the I guess the counselor even told her she's like, I know we're the same age. But you have to show me respect. Yeah, so already, this is not going well. And the 14 year old didn't get because they were sort of packs, right like the you know, it's Catherine packs. One of the other counselors was I think 16 or 17. And the 14 year old decided she didn't like the 16 year 17 year old counselors. So like, there was an there's just a whole bunch of that stuff already going on. And then my daughter did get sick. There's of course, because COVID is over and nobody you know there was masking less social distancing. nobody's been sick in a year and a half. There was a nasty cold. That was clear out. Yeah, right. My son and had it and of course Cassie gets it just as we're going. Alright, fine, you know, but then this counselor is now as is also a germaphobe and is now basically berating me My daughter for being sick. And following her around with like disinfectant being like, Where did you touch? Where did you touch? Well, we can't sleep in the same room anymore. And you now always have to have a mask on, even when you're in your bedroom, and I can't sleep with us or deal with you right now. And you need to go shower in another room and you need to do like, and just escalating it, right? So my daughter is exhausted. She feels like shit because she's sick. And the person won't let her sleep. Because she just keeps running in another room and trying to clean things and everything. So my daughter doesn't end up sleeping that whole night, and is now just a wreck. And then and then she's also like some my daughter, you know, fidgets all those things like the coping mechanisms. And the other girl is like, you can't do that. That's not good. That's self harm. Stop self harming yourself. And she's like, which just leave me the hell alone. And then, you know, Cassie was like, I'm not hungry, because I'm not feeling well. She's like, are you anorexic? And then she's like, Well, no, I think if I eat something I'm gonna throw up. Oh, so you're bulimic, then? Are you? Sure? We could talk about that? And she's like, would you just leave it alone? Yeah, so she ended up hanging out with a bunch of like, the medical staff all night and everything hadn't slept into is just telling me all this around the our home and just venting and then slept literally for 20 straight hours. Yeah, I believe that. Yeah, she got home and literally slept for 20 hours. Wow. Yeah. So like, so there was that really stressful event? And then and then it's like, Okay, now we're going to start packing.
Lee, Would it surprise you to know that I have done some looking into what are the top most stressors according to surveys in adult life and the number one top stress or is it the death of a spouse? No,
no.
Is it money? No. Is it natural disasters? No, it is moving away is the number one stress or in adult life, it's the thing that makes people most anxious. Most freaked out most nonfunctional it is the worst stress people ever experience. And you are rolling into this moving already sort of having part of your vacation time taken away from you having an emotionally volatile child who's had a kind of rough go of it, and is sort of unloading on you who is physically suffering as well. It makes things a bit difficult. You've had to cancel and change a bunch of plans and reconfigure your entire summer around the needs of this move that you were also not expecting to make. How do you look so put together today? How do you look so well rested? Lee with dewy skin and a good attitude about life? I would be in the hospital. Now. I think so since it'd be hard enough for neurotypical people to handle How did you get through this,
um, alcohol. You know, like it's not a good coping. I'm just gonna be honest, it's not a smart coping, and but you do what you got to do to get through these things. Thankfully, I'm, you know, this sounds like there's, it's more stuff to do. But like, I still coach swimming. And so just being able to go on pool deck for an hour and a half twice a week, where it's like an even working at swim meets. It's like, I go on deck, and everything else falls away. And I can do the thing that I know I'm good at. And with these kids, especially in the summer, these kids want to be here, right? Like, these are the kids who want to be here. They're excited, they're listening, they want to do the work. They're like, you know, they're happy. They're telling me about how they're doing this times in the summer and what they want to work on because they want to get fat. You know, it's just after, especially for swimming after the past year and a half of not having swim meets. Yeah, right. Suddenly they get to compete, and they're seeing how the work that they've done over the past year and a half is paid off. And they're getting faster. And they're you know, so it's it's like this nice reprieve, right? Where it's just like, I can go coach, and these kids are so happy. And they're so like, enthusiastic, and it's just like, again, it's it's this, it's a space, I know it's a space I'm familiar with it's you know, it smells like chlorine and right like that looks like that. I think it's a space that you know, it's a space that you're familiar with. It's
a space that you're comfortable in. It's a role that you feel confident about. And it's part of your routine, right. And so many of us neurodivergent types tend to fall apart when our structures are taken away from us, like we talked about this in our pandemic episodes that we did at the beginning of 2020. Right when all the structures that we've put in place that allow us to have a sense of routine, and know ability and predictability in our days, the sorts of supports that we need to allow us to be our best selves. When those got ripped away. We struggled right and when moving is a huge struggle. And I think some of us tend to think like, well, if I'm moving, then I have to sort of cancel my whole life until I get through this big thing. But paradoxically, by sort of canceling obligations that you already have, that were part of that structure of your life, you're not actually creating more time to manage the move, you're just producing more chaos in your life, because the structuring elements that allowed you to feel like there was one part of your life where you are meeting people's expectations and succeeding. I mean, those are really important. Like, I had kind of a rotten day, yesterday, because like, we left Waterloo at seven in the morning to get here in time to get to camp. So that really, for me, it was like a bit of like, mess trying to get everything in the car in the morning and get here. And then I had to find camp. And then I had to find the hotel and I got to the hotel, and I had a meeting at two that I had to go to but check in time is at three. So I had to find a spot to do that. Right. So I had no home base, I had no place to sit. I didn't know where the Wi Fi was going to be had never been here before. I just really struggled all day yesterday, because I didn't know what was happening from minute to minute. And this morning.
We had a conversation where both of us were thinking about different days.
Yeah, yeah, we had this like, quite well done plan. You're like Hulu Hulu,
we're gonna record it. I
was like, Yes. You know, like, Ed two is great, great for me. And you're like, sent me this message your legs are you on ADHD time. And I was like, what the turnout, like last night that you meant to yesterday. And I meant to today. And we was like I couldn't possibly have done that I have therapy at 230 yesterday and a job talk thing to go to it was like what we both got very confused. But today, I feel better. Because today, I know how to get to camp. And I know how to get back to the hotel. And I found where the Starbucks is, and I have that I can come to and I have the Wi Fi password all set up. So today I could visualize how my day was going to go. And I felt like I had a little bit more control over it. I mean, I'm still, you know, in this hotel room without most of my stuff that I like, and you know, I don't get to eat the foods that I want. But at least I know what's going on now. Right? Yeah. And sometimes in these moments of stress, like I have to cancel everything. So I can focus 100% on this incredibly stressful thing, paradoxically, just pulls the rug out from under us even further and makes us less functional. So I think that's really wise, that you've been like, carrying on with with the swim coaching that you do, because it's just important to step outside of that zone of moving chaos. Yeah, briefly to actually live the life that you live most of the time.
You know, yeah, and I've worked really hard for the kids to like, we're still going to go, even if it's, it's, you know, we're still going to go to the swim meets. And as much as I'm like, Oh, this one, me, I get to the swim meet, I'm working the swimbait. And I'm like, I and I'm not even in a high stress. I'm timing. Right, um, you know, like, whatever, I can do this, this is fine. And again, we swim in it, we swim in a summer pool where a lot of the kids that I coach, it's why we went to the summer pool. A lot of kids like coach and the kids swim with your round are there. And so again, it's sort of like I get to see, not just my own kids, but you know, a bunch of the kids that I coach swim, and I see all the time and I've seen and it's just and, and I know the parents, so it's not like this weird, awkward, like, they know me is Coach Lee, which makes me feel pretty good. Because I'm like, at least they know me, you know, in a sphere where I'm competent, as opposed to like rest of my life, which is like a disaster, which they got to experience last night. So you're asking why I'm in such a good mood today. Yeah, because last night, I had a complete breakdown. Oh, no, Lee,
I am sorry to hear that.
Oh, well. And again, just the most like you're gonna you're gonna laugh and I can laugh at it now. But last night, not so much. So it we took them out. So we moved on Saturday. Mm hmm. And again at a time and getting my dates mixed up in the same sort of the same situation that we had where we were talking about numbers, and not days. Yeah. We were talking about numbers, but not months. So for a long time, my son's best friend who lives in Fredericksburg, where we used to live, and they've stayed in touch online and all that kind of stuff. Super besties. And his his family is my son's friend's family. His grandmother lives in Florida. They're they're going to Florida. And so there was this idea that was planted that they were going to go to Florida, he was going to go to Florida with them. Right. And so we were having this conversation. It was supposed to be Disney. It's not Disney. Doesn't matter. He's going to Florida. So I was I was talking with his friend's mom, and we were texting at first then she calls but when she texted me, she's like, when does he start school? And I said August 23. And then she calls me and says, Well, how does it sound to go to Florida from I don't remember. I think it was the 20th to the first but hadn't. And I thought we were still in August and I thought man, I missed the first week of school, whatever. He's super excited about this. This is great. Well, I get a text from her like, last weekend. Yeah. saying like, so. My mom is flying back to Florida. So rather than driving 10 hours, how would you feel about sending him by plane on Sunday? Yeah. So Florida What? And I was like, what's what I thought they were going in August. She's like, No, I meant July. And I was like, Oh, shit. Okay, so. So we moved on Saturday. And I actually planned it was like, there was a Leo's going to Florida suitcase, right. So we didn't have to worry about finding everything. So it was just getting packed. And he was close yet. That was one last thing is of course, get right back. So I was like, Okay, so we're making a Leo goes to Florida suitcase, you know, and you're going for two weeks now. So here's 47 pairs of shorts and 14 t shirts. Because I mean, I'm not going to assume I think they're staying at a house, but I'm not going to assume that they're gonna do my son's laundry for me, you know, but But anyways, I made packing easy had no clothes left. On this suitcase, it's going to Florida. But you know, so Saturday we move Sunday, get into the airport, the airport, put them on a plane by and then and then, you know, and then Sunday, we're we go back after the airport, we're starting to unpack and trying to make sense of everything. Because again, the basement is, you know, going to be redone. And so like, there's a room now in the house that has 2.5 the amount of stuff that it's supposed to have in it because a lot of it was supposed to be in the basement, but we can't put it there. So it you know, trying to make sense. And I don't I like wore a dress to the airport because I didn't know where any of my other clothes were right. Um, you know, I'm wearing Spanx and a dress because literally don't know where I have access to. Yeah, that's what I have access to right now. Um, so that was fine. So Sunday, we're starting to do it. We're, you know, but then Monday, I gotta go back to work. Oh, boy. So one day I go back to work. Cassie has coaching. I have meetings. I'm exhausted at this point, right. I've just had like three days, between Friday trying to finish packing Saturday moving Sunday, trying to make sense of the disaster that is like a house full of boxes. And saying goodbye to my son, which as chill as I am about it. It's still you know, he's gone for two weeks. He doesn't even care that he's leaving. You know. So Monday rolls around. I have actual things because I'm going on vacation next week. One of my one of the people I work with is going on vacation. So we have all this stuff that we need to take care of. Before we both leave. Yeah, right. So I'm trying to juggle these multiple things, trying to figure out what I need to do. Also have to take my daughter to coaching because I want her to have some normalcy. So I'm doing this meeting in the car and then like, I can't get zoom to go through the speaker on my phone. And so and then the dog is having a nervous breakdown because we've moved and he's having
a nervous breakdown. Just listen to the story. So like
I almost lose it already at this point. And I haven't eaten anything yet. Because you know, so that's fine. Cassie calms me down. She's sweet, because we have a new way. She made a joke. It was funny. I was like, thank you. I appreciated that. You know, eat something get through the rest of the day husband comes home. We've got food for dinner. So we're not eating takeout for the first time and like that's, um, yeah. And and so sit down and eat and I get a text. And it says so. I know Leo is gone. But you remember you're supposed to be working to swim meet tonight. Right? You're down his head timer.
I mean, surely they can have this swimming fast competition without a head timer.
That when you come and I like the straw that did it. It's the stops trust straw that started it so that there's like this. It's like starting right? It's rolling so so I go to take my car and I have the bigger car we just gotta like it's kind of the SUV. It says Mazda CX nine is the bigger one. I'm about to get into my car and my husband stops me just as I'm like, I'm rushing. Right like, I don't even have the you know, I'm rushing out the door. I'm already late. Still and right banks in the dress. know at this point I have, like not even the right clothes. At least I found a white t shirt. I'm like, at least I've got that. Right. So I'm running out. He knocks on the window. And he's like, no, you're not taking your car. What do you mean? I'm gonna take my car? Well, I've got to go to the old house and get so I need the bigger car. And I'm like, You're right. I want my car. I already need their driveway. So yeah, it's almost like fire in car. Right? So I get in the car. I'm driving. I'm just like seizing right? And I feel like an ass for forgetting. Right? So the RSD is kicking in big time where they're like, they all think I'm the biggest fucking idiot. I can't believe I'm like doing all of this and like I forgot and how can I forget these things like this is just
so you're in the spiral now.
Yeah, I'm in the spiral now, and I drive to the pool, only to realize once I get to the pool and nobody is there. I have driven to the wrong the wrong pool. Oh no, I thought it was a homey. It was not Oh. And the pool that I had to go to was literally two minutes from the place were removed. And not the 20 minutes that I had driven. Oh, no. I swear to God, I almost crashed the car. I was just like, and then and then the spiral got like it just like an end of course. Oh, no. And this is the other thing I decided to do because I'm an idiot. I'm unpacking my clothes and being like, let's try them on and see if they still fit.
Oh, no
boilerplate word hating yourself enough already. Yeah. Oh, my god, that was the other thing. So I had this like breakdown with lobbying earlier my phone work, like trying to get all this work done that I don't know. And then like, I'm starting to on pack. So like, Well, here are my pants now. Right? So like, I'm like, and then and then so I'm already sort of feeling bad about myself.
I just have to interrupt you and say that you in the midst of all of this nonsense and stress deciding as you are unpacking box, Hey, you know what it would be a great idea I'm gonna try some pants on is also classic ADHD, because the slot machine was you open the box, right? And the jackpot was, I have an idea. Let's put some hands on right. So that even in this midst of like cognitive overload, and already very emotionally dodgy, is that this is the way that your brain works is that you made it worse for yourself. There was a complete own goal is what you just scored. Like, it slowed down the unpacking. And it made you miserable. But I have had those urges, like you open a box and you're looking for something and you're like, oh, shiny thing, right? Yeah. will make me hate myself. Sure that like, I can't think through the consequences of that right now. I'm just having an impulse to try all these pants on because that feels like the right thing to do right now. So yeah, so yeah, I just wanted to flag that exam. Very ADHD thing you did and I don't blame you. It is a reason.
Yeah. And and again, then it's like cuz I'm totally spiraling and I'm like, I shouldn't feel bad about pants not fitting because that's internalized fat phobia. And, you know,
you can feel bad about having internalized fat phobia,
ya know, so then I feel bad about having internalized fat phobia because like if I had lost weight and they didn't fit I feel great about myself but no address like the rst doesn't know that. Right? They just like lead on shit that you so yeah, so then I'm so I'm in the car, driving back and I just okay. sobbing, right, like just screaming in the car literally, like, wanting to like, and this is the thing about people don't get about RSD is like it is a physical manifestation. Like you feel it in your body. And I could feel it in like a just wanted to break things, right. Like I wanted to break things I wanted to like, and just like, and I wanted to lash out at anyone and everyone I wanted to call my husband and just just yell at him and be like, I didn't even want to move.
Job this many years ago, we would be there's like, yeah, this scene in Kimmy Schmidt. where like, have you seen Kimmy Schmidt? No, I haven't seen Kimmy Oh my god, god. first season is just friggin genius. But so Kimmy is a mole woman she's been trapped underground in a bunker by like a religious wing nut with some other women. And so the story follows like her and some of the other women. Right and so one of them Gretchen who is like not coping well with being on the outside. Gretchen is like why don't know Kimmy sometimes they get so mad. I just want to break things like like the other day I broke up. What do you call it? A Kia Sorento. Right. And like we just about fell off the couch because it was just that like that intensity of negative feeling that you get you want out of this completely disrupt like the other day I broke up. What do you call it? A Kia Sorento? Right? An entire car? Right. It was like that sounds like the kind of level of self control that you were kind of feeling that right as your feelings of disempowerment and rage and self hatred becomes so big that you like want to like yell at your husband for existing or you want to break a Kia Sorento
well and yell it might you know and yell it like kill my son who has no idea what's going on and right like
you have no idea what I'm doing. Yeah, like you haven't gone on this trip. I wouldn't have forgot about this.
Yes obligations thing I would have because I would have gone to practice and like if you but then I but it's my own fault because I understand dates. I don't know how time works. There's so it's, it's just this I just got into the spiral. And so I'm like driving there, and I kind of fucking pull myself together. Right, right. I have to fucking put myself together because I'm like, they already think I'm like, again in my mind, they all hate me. They're all talking about me. They all think I'm an they know what they are. I am What a loser I am like all of these, like swim moms are like gossiping about me behind my back now, right? Like how useless I am. You know, and I'm not gonna walk in like, you know, like tear stream, right? Not Yeah. So I'm like, pull up to the parking lot because I'm late. And it's like, they're not these pools aren't made for this many people in parking, they like there's no parking here. And I'm like, I have a head timer, and I am late. They're like, okay, we'll find your spot. Yeah, yelling, but they're not my pool. So I don't give a shit what they give me. I'm just like, beyond this. Show over it. Um, but and so. So, you know, so I get there. And but again, walk on pool deck, see my swimmers, you know, get into it. And it's just like, it's a, you know, it's a beamy. And so it's all the little kids who don't get to swim like the a meet. And so they're all like, you know, not the fastest swimmers. And they try really hard. And they always want to be there and swim. And because it's a beamy as well, it's much more laid back in terms of like, scores don't matter. We're just doing this so the kids can get times and yeah, and have fun and compete. And so everybody's super chill about it. And so, again, it's just kind of like I got on deck. It wasn't, it wasn't overly hot outside, either. Like it was kind of a pleasant summer evening. And so it's like just being outdoors, my pool deck, and I would just sort of like, super calm me down. Mm hmm. Right. And then it was, but I had this like, I whenever I get into the spirals, what I what I've noted is that I always end up having an epiphany of something that I have been avoiding. Right? And and the big one was, I didn't even want to move. Right. So when you said at the beginning, it seems like it's happening to somebody else. It's like, yeah, yeah, it kind of did. Because like, I did, like, I'm, we're gonna be happier here. This place is much bigger. It's across the street from like, my son's Middle School. He is walking. The neighborhood is fantastic. It's young. Cathy, if she wants to make $1,000 babysitting every week, she probably could, um, you know, our neighbors are great. The space is great. Like, it's just it's a perfect place. It's ideal. Um, you know, so like, in a month when we're settled, I'll be like, yes, we're much happier here. I'm glad we did this. But right now, I'm like, I didn't even want to fucking move.
You're not necessarily like, oh, in a month, it'll be fine. But rather, maybe some part of you knew at the time when Marie was like, that's it. Like now's the time, where a part of you knew that what you should have said was no, I have this summer planned. Right? As I really need this, I need to get prepped on work. And I need to do this. And there's always going to be houses for sale because like, you can't sort of do the hypothetical of well, we wouldn't have got this house. Well, no, but there's also houses you didn't get because you weren't on market three months sooner. Right. Like, this is a very difficult practice for me. And I'm sure it will be a difficult practice for you. And that is to say no, yeah, to things that you feel like you should be able to do that are reasonable asks because you have different limits than other people, right. So if you had this, like, you know, the kids are gonna go to sleepaway camp, I'm trying to plot plan this thing for Leo to go to Florida, you know, me and my husband, we're going to go on a trip together or like I need to catch up, like at work on all the things that are gonna happen, because then we're going on a vacation later. We're like, I don't think I can fit this in this summer. Right? I just don't because I think I will flame out. Because in fact, you have, right. Yeah. doubt it. And so I think it's, I think it's very difficult for us to believe ourselves when we have those intuitions, right? So you've had this epiphany, after like, you know, you have this like quasi road rage against yourself driving from the wrong pool to the right, because like, once you make one error, right, yeah, you just make more errors, and they make more errors and your mood gets worse and your cognition gets worse and you lean more heavily into the everybody hates me narrative, which makes you make worse decisions. And they're gonna say like, well,
I also hate everybody right now. And I really hate saying what I all say.
Yeah, I hate. Right. Yeah. Yeah. You think like, well, I'll just get through this. I'll just be another sort of ungracious episode of my life where once I get through it, everything will be fine. And I'll just be like, why can't I be a grown up for these things, but maybe the grown up thing to do? Maybe the the self kindness thing to do is like to negotiate. So maybe, for Murray, it's easy enough to be like, Well, okay, well, we'll move because it's just packing some boxes. It's not that complicated. We'll change the utilities to the new house and we'll get an inspection done and we'll hire somebody like, it's not that complicated, but maybe for you, it's complicated. For you, it's complicated. And it's okay to say, Well, I'm glad that's not difficult for you, but like if you can do all of it, okay, but I can't participate in that right now. But if you need me to help you, then maybe we do it in two months. There's always going to be more houses, right like, there always is and And when we leave ourselves so little wiggle room, right, like even if everything had gone perfectly for us, you'd probably still be really burnt out. But then quickly, right, a number of things went wrong. And so it is way less than perfect now and I Li on behalf of you, I am going to forgive you for flaming out for yourself because that's the natural result of pushing past all of your boundaries, right? It's really hard in our frazzle brains, where we are tending mostly to hate ourselves. And if you have rejection sensitive dysphoria, which you do, you are loath to disappoint anybody, especially, you know, somebody says, I want to move and you'll be like, okay, even think to yourself, like I don't want to do that right now you think Well, that's because I'm a bad person. Right? And I should want to do this because on the face of it, it's fairly reasonable in an abstract sense, but you're not an abstract sensitive
person. And and something that I have articulated in the past that I have wanted. Yeah, yeah, in the past, I've said I would really like to own a place and not rent anymore.
That's right. But you don't want to do that process. In July of 2021, right. Yeah. Like, it's, it's very difficult to be able to parse that to say, like, I thought I really wanted like, I always say, like, I really want excitement and travel and change. I do not actually want to be spending six hours a day sitting in like a shitty country in raddison, next to a hospital in a parking lot. For six hours a day. Well, my kid goes to camp, right, and then comes back and complains about bug bites all day. This is not what I would have chosen for my travel. Like it's okay for me to say I really want to travel. But not this is not what I wanted. Right? Yeah. That's okay. And it's really hard. So I don't doubt that you have been really hard on yourself this week. And I don't doubt that this has been incredibly stressful and that your children have been stressed out and that your husband has been stressed out. I mean, moving is is really, really hard for neurotypical people. And it's really, really hard for neurodivergent people, especially those of us who really, you know, need to put guard rails around the structures of our day and our lives so that we can function because like you, it's not like, if you add one more thing onto my schedule, that's too much one thing falls off my schedule. It's if you overfill that bucket. everything falls off my schedule. It's not like you know, I ate one too many Oreos, and now I'm gonna throw up exactly one Oreo. Like, that's not how it works when you overdo it, everything fails. Right? And I don't know, I'm sure many of our listeners will be like nodding quite vigorously to this and be like, that's me. I always think like, I just push it a little. And I'll only fail a little. But if you just push it a little. It won't be that bad. It won't be that bad. But
it'll be bad. But it won't be that bad. Like, before.
Yeah, yeah. And you hated it every time. Right?
Yeah, but this one in particular was really? Yeah, bad. Like, Emily's just in like, what I don't it's a million degrees, right?
Oh, sure. Like, and what I don't want you to do is like one month from now, when you're going to be in this house. They will like, you know, next time if we had to do that, again, I would just try to cope better.
Yeah, no,
like, you know, that's, that's like, you know, if you're allergic to gluten, and you're like, well, like next time, you know, my bowels won't seize up, I'll just try to be better at eating the bread that I'm allergic to like if you know, if you learned from this experience, what your your limits are. And even though you can be glad eventually that you survived it. And the outcome has turned out to be fairly pleasant. And you do really like the house and you like that the middle schools across the street and all the other advantages that come from that it still doesn't make it okay, that you had to go through this process. And you are right, to try to avoid that in the future without blaming yourself for being broken like that. Right. I think, like if I think that's going to be really important for our listeners to think about too, is like, even if the outcome turned out to be better, best for everybody involved, there's a certain part of you that you don't get back when you go through a terrible experience like that, right? Because then you'll just blame yourself for not being the right kind of person who could handle it. And it produces terrible memories. And then you get really nervous The next time you have to do something like that. But you think if only I was more normal, or only had better coping skills, but like your hard limits or your hard limits. Yeah,
well, and I said that so the other thing that made me feel better is that I actually shared this on Twitter last night. And it's like it again, it's a chicken and egg question like that I start writing to cope or is writing, you know, or my coping, right. Like I Yeah, whatever. Writing has always been sort of my way of coping. Right. And once I and not even just for myself, once I externalize it, I kind of it's almost like I let it go, and it's out there and I'm like, okay, it's gone. not gone. But you know what I mean? Like, it's just I've, I've articulated it, rather than have it sit up in my own head.
Well, yeah, because you're taking what is a raw kind of sensory experience. That's overwhelming, right? And you get that feeling of like, you want to break things because you have so much energy inside your body such a negative accumulation of energy, that there's really no story there. It's all sensation, right? And when you write things you are sort of self therapy, in the sense that you are taking your experience In your your sort of sensory process and turning it into a story that has a cause and an effect, right, that has a mood that has a crisis and a day new mall and a climax, right? Like you are turning it into something that has a structure that then you can sort of metacognitively look at and say, well, well, naturally, I was overwhelmed by that, or I see, once I was panicked about being late about something that I forgot, I got so wrapped up in my own head about what a bad person I am, I wasn't even thinking about what pool I had to drive to. Right like, so you can start to make sense of your own experience there. And I like people Rouse on us for you know, people oversharing on on social media and stuff, but but for many of us, like hearing from other people who can help us make sense of our experiences, or even taking the time doesn't have to be on on Twitter, people can write this in a journal or people can, you know, vlog just for themselves, or they can you know, do whatever kind of creative processing
podcast. There, they're,
they're kind of really difficult, overwhelming multivariate experience of sensation into a story, write a story where you can maybe be kind to the main character in ways that you can't when you're just like, you know, ripping off your own fingernails in frustration, because you're so mad at yourself about something that you forgot. Right? I think this is such an important, important process. And that's part of what helps you get to that epiphany. Yeah, I think where you can be like next time, right, I will change the circumstances, I won't try to be a different person. I will be a person who articulates my own boundary so that I can control my circumstances.
Yeah. But I did say at the end of the thread, that this was one of those moments because it was still pretty raw at that point, you know, was that like, these are? These are the moments when I just wish I could be normal. Right? Like, I just wish that it was just like, you know, yeah, would it would a normal people be upset at themselves about going to the wrong pool? and forgetting? Yes. You know, do I have to feel like I want to vote I really, you know, and I'm like, like, it's, at least I can name it. Now. You know what I mean? Like, I can name it. This is the ADHD, this is the RSD. This is the, you know, and so that makes it a lot easier. Because it's like, you know, the I have an answer to the question, What is wrong with me? Um, but But then again, like, again, this conversation is like, yeah, you're right, I shouldn't have put up harder boundaries. But I need to learn that lesson the hard way, apparently. Well,
I mean, we all do, we all do. Right. And so you say, like, I think you say like, uh, you know, at a certain point, I feel like I want to be normal. But I will say like, what normal people experience is that the world is already aligned with the boundaries that they have. Yeah, right. And so to be normal, in that sense, would be to have your boundaries recognized and respected. Right, you don't have to change who you are, it's just this world is not sort of set up. For your convenience, or according to the preferences you already have. It's like, you know, everybody else gets into whatever car it is that everybody has to drive in the seats already arranged the way that they want. But you always are going to have to spend more time adjusting the seat and then adjusting the side mirrors and then adjusting the top mirrors and still be uncomfortable, and still be uncomfortable and still be uncomfortable, take you more time, right to achieve a less desirable outcome, it was gonna be like, I don't know why she has to fuss with that car so much. And it's because when most people do things the same way, that tends to be how we organize the way things get done. And the rest of us feel bad about our own needs. We spend half our time denying them, and then half our time berating ourselves for the negative outcomes when we don't respect them. Right.
No, and that's, and that's exactly it. And it was just I don't know. And there's also like, the other thing is, is, and I think this is, you know, I think this is reasonable, as well. But then there's also like, so this is an ongoing negotiation. So we have a new place, and it's a larger place. And the kids are older, as you said, and so there's a certain expectation that you're like, this kind of thing should be happening. Can we live in a grown up house? That isn't a disaster all the time, right? And so, and I like my clutter, right? I like my clutter that my clutter is actually comforting to me. Right? Which and I get that other people it is distracting, especially my husband doesn't like it as much and I'm, you know, put but we get an argument because the basement is going to be my space. And he's like, Well, you know, I don't want to see that. I'm like, you don't have to you never have to come to the basement. That's right. You never have to come the basement and then he wants to organize the entryway to be less chaotic, which again, totally understand but also being like you can set up because I've we've talked about this I have set up clothing racks I have set up like processes I've set up all kinds of shit. Shoe racks, shoes, never going to write code never goes on the hanger. Yeah, like and so he's like, well, well, let's get some shelves and little kids will have their own cubbies and all that and I'm like, What about hooks on the wall? And he's like, no, like, Alright, fine. I'm like, but you do realize that this is not going to happen. Yeah, like I'm just sick and tired of seeing the clutter and Again, rst kicks in and I'm like, Alright, so you're trying to hide the clutter away like that. I, I've taken that a little personally. And again, it's because I'm on edge and I'm exhausted and all that, but it's sort of like, you know, you talked about wanting to hide the clutter away and on one one hand, I get it. Yeah, right. Like, I don't particularly, you know, I like my clutter. I don't necessarily think kids clutter.
clutter is in the eye of the beholder, right. Yeah.
Right. Um, but then you sort of like, well, this that, like, I don't does that mean? Like, it's like, do you want to hide it all away? And like, oh, I'll hide out in the basement that nobody ever has to see. But is that like, a true articulation of like who I am? Right. So I don't know. It's just it's been? It's been a lot. It's been a it's been a, it's been a couple days.
I guess you that we tend to have these conversations as the boxes are being moved into the new house, right. And someone will say, like, that's it. We're starting fresh here. There's gonna be no clutter. And that's, that's a kind of, like, clash of personalities that's happening at the most stressful moment of your life. Yeah. And so it might be like, I'm in a hallway that doesn't have any crap in it yet. Yeah, I wish for my hallway to remain crap free. And you're like, yeah, I didn't want to move right now. And I'm, like, really suffering a lot of change right now. And confusion and chaos. I, this, this feels like, you know, you know, if we were going to move houses, would you want to go somewhere bigger or smaller? Right. And then you can have a discussion, like, I'm thinking bigger, and I'm like, Yeah, okay. But like, then are we gonna have too much stuff? Because I feel like every place we move to gets bigger, we have more stuff. And it stresses me Oh, well, I thought if we had a bigger place, we could do what I mean, like you discuss these things. Not at the same time, when you're in the middle of things to be like, guess what, we have a new design aesthetic. And I'm taking half the boxes out of the truck and throwing them in the garbage. Like, I'm sorry, what? right now is not the time for that. Like, because they're very separate issues, right? When you're trying to cope with moving boxes from one location to another is not like, by the way, you are a terrible housekeeper and our kids are slobs and this needs to end like I'm sorry, what? Like, you know, to be even even worse.
At this one, I was okay, and could laugh at it. Because I was just like, what the fuck else could go wrong today? Yeah, so we had a cleaning person. And this is how this is how Cassie made me feel better at first for my first little spiral was this poor cleaning person that my husband had hired the service. She's all she's like an hour away from where we are. Okay. And the cleaning service gave her two jobs that day. But the first job was an hour in the opposite direction of where she needed to come to do our thing. Right. So she was super apologetic, right? And just call my husband and I'm like, I'm so sorry, I noticed that 11. But this job ends at 11. And I have two hours away. Like they did this to me. I'm so sorry. And we're like, whatever. It's mine. Come at one. And so I was wondering, let her in your place at one. Yeah. And she was and I felt there. She was late. Right? Couldn't find it. She even said she was like, I almost start crying in the car. Because we're in one of those like complex like our old places in a complex that goes around. If you go in the door, if you go into like the entranceway and just turn right, we're right there. But it told her to turn left and took her all the way around. I don't know where I'm going. Yeah. And I'm already late, and I'm already two hours later than I want it to be. But also 15 minutes later than I told him I was in like, you know, oh, yeah. And, and I, you know, I totally get that. And so like, she was super apologetic and frazzled everything. And I'm just like, it's okay. It's cool. Like, I'm not putting this on, like, I get it. Right. Like, this is before everything went horribly wrong, but I already got it. Yeah, um, you know, and just sort of walking around. And she's going and she's like, I've been in property manager. And look, we swept up at our place was a disaster, right? Like, you've got two daughters with really long hair and a dog. Right? Like the hair his hair everywhere. Oh, yeah. And there's so much stuff. There was so much stuff in it, that it was almost impossible to dust because you can't move anything anywhere dust to like it. So and i'm not i hate cleaning. I don't enjoy it. I
don't care. So I pay like, every week to clean my house.
Well, in that we're gonna actually start doing that. Yeah, she like so I, you know, I, I let her in. And the deal was I'll let her in. You close it out to my husband. We'd already agreed on that even before I had to run off to the pool at the light. Right? So he, he goes to check it out. And he's like, what did you do when she came to check in and I'm like, What do you mean, I just sort of showed her around the house and was like, you know, and he was like, she felt really bad for you have like, What? What she was like, she was like, she felt like you were feeling bad. The place was so messy. And then like she took so she's like, she offered to come and help you unpack for free. And it's like giving us a deal to like come and clean our new place even though we're an hour away for her to the Like she's given us a deal to come in, she wants to come in, like once a month and like, help make sure this place stays clean and like reclined Lee. But, you know, in my own head, I'm just like, yeah, cuz I am useless.
Oh,
totally differently. I
would say no. You see,
then you frame it that way. And I'm like, Oh, yeah, that would be the more generous for that particular circumstance. Like, yeah,
I told you that story, you would frame it like that for me, you would say, look, Amy, you treated somebody with kindness and you opened a space in their heart to be kind to you in return, you made an authentic connection with somebody. Right? And now they they want to do something nice for you because they see you as fully human because you treated them as if they were fully human. Right? Yeah. It doesn't have to be like, Oh my god, I'm in the crazy lady hoarders House of dog hair. And filth. Right. I'm going to call children's age and, and do disaster relief cleaning out her new house. Like that's probably that's not actually how people think.
Right? Yeah, no, you're right. You are very right, insider stories. They reframed it for me. I breached You're welcome. I was just I was also just like, Look, if we're gonna pay her once a month, I've been home so grateful. Please, yes, yes. Let's
get that stats.
He's like, I'll text her right now and tell her once we're setting because there's no point in having her at the place is clean right now. Yeah, right. Yeah. So he's like, once we get all unpacked, we'll have her start coming in once a month. And she's like, Oh, I'm so. And actually, that's when she said, Oh, well, you can come help her unpack and get things organized and really good at that. And I'm like, as I said, she's not going to want to come back if she
was she about
like four foot 10 and Japanese was it Marie Kondo?
No, no. That's what she was. She was actually saying she, she's been she's been a property manager for like, 40 years. So knows how to, like clean a place. But she also like, she like she gave us she gave the business card. I guess she also does, like, I'll decorate your home for Christmas. I will, you know, I will help you get organized. I will clean your place. I will you know, like life. Yeah. I mean, basically, yeah.
And,
like I just, and like, just how I how harried she was, again, feeling so bad about having to go back and forth. And we felt bad because like, that was the service that we just wanted someone to, like, come and clean our place. We didn't really do that to you. Like, that fucking sucks. Sure. But she came, but I mean, she came in and that was like, she, she. And again, this is coming from my spot of like, I fucking hate cleaning. Yeah, like, she's like getting all excited and being like, Oh, yeah, I can do this. This is great. Okay, we'll do this. And this is and I could do that. And that's looks good. And let's, you know, I was like, Wow, she's actually really excited about doing this. That's weird. Like, it's like, excited about writing with other people. Right? They're like, yeah, like spreading. That's weird. But
I have to say, Lee, this is something where I'm gonna say I'm not gonna say Would it surprise, you know that my experience is completely different? Because I also hate cleaning. But I love tidying. Right. So this works out for me and Tom, because I am very tidy. He doesn't mind the clutter. I mind the clutter. So yeah, he's like, this is the tiniest house I've ever lived in. And I'm like, it's the cleanest house I've ever lived in because he is actually really good at cleaning stuff. And I'm like, I don't care if it's dusty. As long as there's nothing on the coffee table. Except for the inch of dust. Yeah, exactly. That doesn't bother me. But he's like, you know, he's happy to have like 75 DVDs and baseball hats and one shoe and a bowl of cereal on the coffee table. As long as as long as it is like been sanitized and sterilized. As long as every item like is clean. It doesn't matter how many there are like, yeah, that kind of works out for us. But again, like that's something that we that we have to negotiate, right? Because like my standard of cleanliness, or my story, my standard of tidiness far exceeds what my daughter when my child and my husband are comfortable with and so sometimes it feels like shaming to them that I'm like, could you guys like just not leave your shit? everywhere? Like I'll say to Elon, like, could
you just Well, I've heard that law. I've heard you say that to our kids. Yeah, yeah, I
mean, I will stand in the dining room like cuz I have this kind of open concept ish main floor and I will stand out, put my hands on my child's shoulder and I will say to them now do spin. Do a 360 degree spin look around anything on the this floor of the house that belongs to you. You will pick it up and put it in your room because it doesn't belong down here and I don't want to see it.
I'm just like, Geez, mom, and I'm like, inevitably in this there's like this blindness because I suffer from it too. Right? We're like, okay, Leo, can you throw out your trash? Yeah. And this is half of it. And misses half of it. I'm like, Dude, what about that over there? were right there. Were right there where? Yeah, you know, and
in a fit of pique, this was like not my highest parenting moment. So like you can this is a gift I'm giving to you I collected all of the discarded time. Plastic wrappers that cover the straws that attach to juice boxes. Because my child is the only person in the house that drinks juice boxes. And inevitably, the house is like in snowdrifts of plastic wrappers. Yeah, tiny plastic straws, and I picked up all the tiny plastic wrappers for a week. And I kept them in my pocket. And then one day, I taped them all to the frame of their bedroom door so that when I got up in the morning, it would hit them in the face. Oh, okay. I would write them in the face. I was like I say like, it was like a little kind of little plastic bits at face height. Like, what the hell is like I told you put them in the garbage. You only ever generate one at a time you'd like to take a juice box. You take the straw off the glue on the side, and then you remove the plastic wrap from the straw. And then what happens to that plastic wrap? And then Olins like, I don't know. I'm like, Yeah, because I take care of it. Like, it's a very small thing to lose over. Like, yeah, it's such a small thing. Why can't you do it? And if you move on top of that, and like, I would be trying to pack boxes, and still these bits of plastic would be accumulating in my house, there's going to be murders and it'll be a lot easier to move because I will be going to jail.
Yeah, yeah, well, then. I mean, it was the same thing when I said a bag in a box right there. Like I don't have enough stuff to fill a bag. I'm like, Are you kidding me? There are literally clean X's all over your floor. Yeah. Like an empty pot. Like I filled a bag of garbage. And I look in her room. And I'm like, with howling With what? Yeah, none of the others like, Oh, my hidden garbage. And I was like,
oh my lord.
Right, like, hidden garbage shit. Like, could we but the visible garbage? They're fine. They're like, whatever, it's fine. They're my like, my ways. Um, it's like, yeah, it's I don't know, is this like, the greatest episode to end on? Because
now we're just freaking out about the tiny stuff. Yeah, I think it's good. I mean, I think like the the summary of this is that some events in our lives are very, very stressful, right. And some of that is just inevitable. Everybody finds these things stressful, but that there are some things about our neurodivergent brains that do not allow us always to recognize boundaries that we Intuit, and we don't express them. And then also, when things inevitably go wrong, we have trained ourselves so much in the habit of self blame, and self loathing, that we are almost unable to solve our own problems because we make them bigger by blaming ourselves for them. And then we get spun out. And the more we get spun out, the more mistakes we make, and the more we think that we are garbage human beings. But I guess we can comfort ourselves that our children will never throw us out. Because they are not good at collecting their own garbage. And that Lee is tying it all together.
You have been watching Brooklyn nine, nine. Which we just finished binge watching it again before it comes back for its final season. sadface. And walking around a lot saying title of your sex tape.
It's the name of your tape. A lot of my house. Yeah.
So um, before we wrap up, because I actually have to go to another meeting at 330
and pick up my kid from Camp leave. I have to drive 25 minutes through traffic and not my city. On the 401
I'm only good with it, though. I'm totally good.
Yeah, I know. Right? Like, it's just this is this is my husband said after we had to go get the kid at camp, we were just like, this is what this is what happens when you have kids. Like even if you're a typical, this is what happens when you have kids and they're neurotypical they get sick, right? Things happen, right? Your son breaks his arm three times like this is just. But before we do sign off for the season, we'll be back sometime in September or October, or maybe in 2022. Because time has no meeting and then all of a sudden we'll be trying to schedule it. And then there'll be but we will be back. We are going to be back. We are fully intending to be back. You know, because everything's getting back to normal, which is also an overwhelming and experience. I know. But But I do want to just say, I hope I hope she does listen to this episode. But I want to say hi to Sally. And thank her for emailing us and trusting me and us with your story. And that it might not seem like it gets better based on this episode that we just described. But you'll find your people and you'll find your Amy or you'll find your Li and you'll find the people who will get you and we'll help you through it. And it might not feel like it right now to you. But I think both of us very distinctly remember Amy being teenagers and thinking that we were all alone and that nobody was ever going to get us and nobody was ever going to understand the way we He understood the world. And so I'm getting really choked up about this. But yeah, it gets better. It does get better, it gets better, you find it gets less lonely. It gets less. Yeah,
yeah. And it's just so great that there's such a wealth of resources in different places now, and that people are more comfortable asserting their own identities, I think it is, like, in many ways, pretty awful to try to be a teenager at any time. And also right now in specific, but one of the blessings of this era is the capacity to find your people a little bit quicker. And in terms of finding our people, some of our people, we are the people who've been tagging us on Twitter and the people who have been, you know, adding us to recommendation lists and people who've been sending us emails and DMS and Facebook messages, or sometimes people who stopped me in my grocery store.
I listened to your podcast, I'm like, Oh, shit,
you're all supposed to just be digital, right? Seriously, I
have people in the room, like grad students in our program, or are like, I listen to your podcast, and I'm like, oh, like, Look, you're on my social deficits. Right
now. You're the person right in front of me. But it's been, it's been very powerful for me, because like, it's been, you know, kind of a struggle, in this pandemic times in the midst of change, and moving everything into the home office and stuff to to feel like I am accomplishing things in the world that are meaningful. And every person that writes to you or to me, or to both of us, or, you know, who leaves us some kind of comment in someplace, with some version of this was useful to me really, honestly fills up my gas tank to answer the work emails that I can't get away from, it helps me I won't say like, not hate myself anymore, because I don't want to put that on people to rescue my mental health. But I will say that it is a tremendous boost in my life to know that people listen to this and find it valuable. That's really meaningful. So thank you to everybody. Who listens?
Yes, exactly. And we will be back. And it was really, it was really nice when we heard from everybody saying, like, what
are you coming back?
That's always nicer, right? So even though we are not going to be recording any episodes for a couple of weeks, or months, or your time has no meaning. As always,
I'm ready writing on Twitter, and I am at Digi link on Twitter.
And you can always email us at all the things adhd@gmail.com oh again@gmail.com. And also go to our website, all the things calm and leave comments. And really, we
you're you're not alone in this, and you are a part of a great wonderful community of people who thanks to the internet, or we are able and been able to find each other and share our experiences with each other and feel less alone and you know, make things just a little bit better. So, you know, thank you. And with that, I think we'll sign off and I'm going to go continue unpacking and you are going to go pick up your kid. Yeah, that's right. And again, the normalcy in the routine of this, even though we're not recording on a Friday afternoon because I was busy packing on Friday, and we didn't call yesterday because you were busy. I was busy thinking Well, according today,
yeah.
I was seeing zoom doing other work, right. She shows up. She shows up.
Fine. She's at a hotel. I don't know what's going on. So like, it's just like, yes, we will be back. So stay safe, stay focused, stay positive. And we'll talk to you soon. Bye, everybody.
