NCGA House Select Committee on Hurricane Helene 1-29-25

    7:11PM Jan 29, 2025

    Speakers:

    Keywords:

    moment of silence

    governor's recovery office

    emergency response

    public safety

    housing task force

    economic development

    disaster recovery

    executive orders

    community revitalization

    federal government

    debris removal

    housing recovery

    road repair

    private roads

    FEMA funds

    funding challenges

    homeless students

    donation tracking

    community partnerships

    housing recovery

    FEMA assistance

    debris removal

    private roads

    bridge replacement

    disaster recovery

    nonprofit coordination

    federal funding

    economic impact

    tourism industry

    waterway cleanup

    Transylvania County

    national parks

    federal delegation

    tourism reliance

    FEMA assistance

    revolving funds

    state parks

    economic development

    disaster recovery

    state agencies

    volunteer organizations

    meeting tour

    southern barbecue

    wildfire evacuation

    missing persons

    Staff here, the committee staff, and we just appreciate everybody's efforts to be here. We have some good information, I think, to be related to us today, to at least give us a base point to start to work off of and the needs that are out there, and maybe some suggestions about how to proceed, but before we get into the meat and bones of the meeting, I just wanted to take just a moment for a moment of silence, and let's try to remember that there were 104 of our citizens who perished in this incident, and many that are still missing, so let's let's observe just a moment of silence for them.

    All right. Thank you. We are privileged today to be joined by Mr. Matt Calabria, who is the director of the governor's recovery office for western North Carolina. And I'll ask him to come on up to the podium here, and he will be our first presenter at today's meeting. And Mr. Calabria Welcome to the committee. And I think maybe Jonathan Krebs, with who is the western North Carolina recovery advisor for grow NC, is with you, and we'll look forward to your presentation and certainly appreciate the governor's interest in recovery out in the western part of the state and efforts there. So Mr. Collaborating the fourth floor is yours. Well. Thank

    you very much, Mr. Chairman, again, I'm Matt Calabria. I'm the new director for the governor's recovery office for western North Carolina. Really appreciate you all having us today. I am a little more than two weeks on the job now, and really appreciate the opportunity to start connecting with you all. I know I've had an opportunity to talk to some of y'all on the phone. If I haven't, I promise I'm coming and looking forward to developing our relationship so that we can better collaborate as we go forward, just by way of introduction, and I'll then turn it over to Mr. Krebs to introduce himself. I before this job, served for 10 years on the county commission, on the Wake County Board of Commissioners. There in that 10 years, nine of those years, I served as the chair of the Public Safety Committee, and so a lot of my work was on making sure we supported our first responders, emergency response and emergency preparedness, building a new operations center, emergency operations center, and then using that operation center for anything from hurricanes to tornadoes to pandemics, you name it. I also served on our local emergency planning committee dealing with any number of hazards related to toxic chemicals, train derailments and a number of other matters, and interfaced with our Department of Homeland Security representatives and others in that regard. In addition to public safety, I was privileged to serve on a national task force where I was selected to be one of about 30 members or county commissioners from across the country on a Housing Task Force to develop, on a non partisan, bipartisan basis, recommendations to make sure that our localities, our communities, have adequate housing. And I've been mindful of how that has come into play here as we talk about rebuilding homes and making sure that we help families recover. And then lastly, and I know many of you all know this, because I think we've got maybe seven or eight former county commissioners in the room, but there's a lot that I've been honored to do with respect to economic development, whether that be serving as the chair of the county commission, is what they call the Clio, the chief local election or local elected official when it comes to our Workforce Development Board, and certainly worked on any number of job creation programs, worker training programs and and those sorts of things. Business supports that sort of thing. So that was a little bit long winded, but since this is my first meeting with you, all figured I'd go ahead and introduce myself, and I wanted and I want to turn it over to Mr. Krebs before we get into the meat of the presentation.

    My name is Jonathan Krebs. Had the pleasure of serving the governor, first as part of his transition team, then officially in January, as his recovery advisor for western North Carolina. Helene recovery. My background, I come out of private industry. I'm now two weeks on the job. First time ever as a state employee, I served a company that provided government services and disaster recovery options for most every major disaster since Hurricane Katrina, I've been living and breathing the disaster recovery work for, I guess, close to 20 years, ever since Katrina came into my backyard and affected my neighbors and family, and ever since then, I've been very passionate about doing the work of disaster recovery. I'm not good at the politics, not good at the state employee function, but we can do a really good job of making the right decisions that help people and put them first in this effort. And I appreciate you all making this your priority. To do this together. If you don't have my cell phone number, I will be handing it out. I want you all to know that you can call us and we will give you the answers you're looking for. If you've got questions about my background or the decisions that we've made today, we're going to get into that, I'm sure, at times, but I want you to know that we will be transparent and accountable to you and most importantly, to the residents of western

    North Carolina. Here we go. I figured out how to work this thing. We're off to a good start. So just a brief overview of what we hope to talk to you today about, and I want to be mindful of our time, but we are just going to check in on the overall numbers related to the damage needs, damage and needs assessment that ospm put together for you all late last year and continues to monitor. Talk a little bit about the executive orders and the vision for North Carolina recovery. Talk a little bit more about grow NC. What is it? What are we doing? What have we been up to? And then talk a little bit about the Department of Commerce's new division of community revitalization. And then round off the presentation with a discussion of just by way of notifying you all what we have been asking the federal government for. We've been doing to work with them to make sure that we have the most accelerated and robust recovery that we can and then talk a little bit about what's on our mind for the next 3060, 90 days or so. Thanks, sir. So these numbers are not new to anyone, I imagine, but just by way of, uh, establishing a grounding point regarding the tremendous devastation, unfortunately that occurred as a result of Hurricane Helene. Mr. Chairman, you were good to point out the more than 100 people that lost their lives in western North Carolina as a result of the storm. In addition to that, osbm has estimated that the damages approach $60 billion and just so you all know in your materials, in the appendix of our slides, we have spelled out a breakdown of the damages that North Carolina government and residents and businesses have incurred. But suffice it to say, the biggest buckets of categories of damages are damages to the economy, to housing and to transportation.

    So as we talk about the executive orders, obviously the purpose is to accelerate recovery and get people safe quickly. Those initial executive orders first focus on housing. We know that we've got people that are not presently living in their community because they lost everything. So the goal was to offer them options. So we instituted an emergency travel trailer program so that people had the option to be housed on their property, if we felt like that was going to be the safest solution for them, to get back into their community, be close to their jobs, get the kids back in the school, we wanted to make sure that was an option available to them. And so the second executive order was around access. We know that we have a unique circumstance with private roads and bridges in North Carolina, and being sure that people have emergency access to their property is critical path forward for us. We're working to stand that program up and create a scaled solution. With the help of FEMA and state legislature, I think that we can offer a robust solution that gets people safe in the very near future. The third executive order was really around the organization of government. We know that we have a Herculean task ahead of us, and we needed people that it was their full time job to be focused exclusively on healing recovery that starts out in the governor's office. We've learned plenty of lessons from past recoveries, and one of those lessons is that for a successful recovery, there must be clear and consistent communication from the executive speaking into the agencies, so that we're all understanding the same side picture, and we have unity of control and command moving forward, this was a critical part of the effort so establishing Grow and see within the governor's office ensures that every agency spending state and federal dollars associated with Helene has accountability and the direction they need for us all to be successful and serve the people most in need. The second component of this was the establishment of the division of community revitalization within Department of Commerce. This will be the entity established exclusively focused on western North Carolina healing recovery, tasked primarily with spending the HUD funds that were appropriated just before Christmas. The other executive order, number four, established the western North Carolina Advisory Committee. This is our way of taking input from the community, managing stakeholder expectations and understanding what's needed next, so that we are trying to stay ahead of the needs of the community. The Advisory Committee has met a number of times, both informally and then how formally some of you serve on that committee. Thank you for that service. Your input is invaluable to our steps moving forward. And then the last executive order was around ensuring that our state employees can continue to serve and volunteer at a time when that help is very needed. This recoveries are going to require all of us, not just state funds, not just federal funds, it's going to require private institutions as well. And much of the good work that is being done in the West has been done by those organizations, and we're grateful for that. We want to support that with additional state employee time,

    the governor set out a vision statement for healing recovery, and this is it. And I won't just read the slide to you, but I do want to talk about the four pillars that the governor has repeatedly talked about in internal conversations but also publicly, that are essential to recovery. The first being urgency, which involves deploying solutions quickly to address the housing, economic, infrastructure and other challenges that are before us. So one is urgency. Two is focus, zeroing in on the most important and acute needs and prioritizing our investments so that we use the we make the smartest use of our funds and our time and our resources. The third is transparency. That's what we're embodying, hopefully today, by being before you, but making sure that we set up systems so that everyone you all we do, how we're doing, how well we're spending money, how quickly we're spending money, and how well we are making progress toward as close to a full recovery as we possibly can. And then lastly, accountability, and that means setting ambitious but quantifiable goals that help us structure recovery efforts and provide direct oversight, most immediately to the governor's office, but then also to you all as well. So now that we've talked about the overarching mission statement for our efforts, I'd like to talk a little bit about how the location, structure and function of grow NC is intended to reflect that the governor's vision and our recovery efforts. Grow NC is essentially intended to be a nerve center for the recovery. It's going to be driving the recovery, coordinating across agency, all the agencies, and tracking our progress toward our goals. We want to make sure that the work being done is done by the unit of government best suited to do it. You don't want me from grow NC, micro managing grade separations. You want D O T to be riding herd on transportation issues. You don't want me analyzing water samples. You want DEQ to be looking at those functions. So the idea is to utilize the agencies to let them do what they do best, so that we have a strong and robust recovery, but also go about our work efficiently. Grow. NC is comparatively small compared to a lot of recovery apparatus that have been developed in similar situations. We don't want to bog this down with thick layers of bureaucracy. We want to be able to move nimbly and having an office, as Mr. Krebs alluded to, in the governor's office, reporting directly to the governor and providing real time information can help improve transparency, increase awareness, and also make sure that we are avoiding right hand, left hand problems and gaps and overlaps and that sort of thing. The other thing I think is important to note here is that it's really critical to us, and I trust to you all that this effort be connected to western North Carolina and be rooted in western North Carolina, and there are a number of different ways we hope to do that. First is through the advisory committee that we have already mentioned. Also in your appendix, there's a slide identifying the membership of that advisory committee. And again, like Mr. Krebs, I want to thank you, all, so many of you, for serving on that advisory committee, and we'll be meeting regularly going forward. Second, many of a number of the Grow NC staff are, or will be based out of western North Carolina. We're currently in the process of onboarding certain folks, and I want to mention Emily gangie, who is a Morganton girl, is here. She's our chief deputy for grow NC, and we're establishing partnerships as best we can with local organizations out that way, nonprofits, residents, units of government and others. And then lastly, on this front, I want to mention that many of you all know Holly Jones, the director of the governor's Western office. She is very much integrated with our efforts, and is really a critical, and I have to say, very effective part of our team. So we're grateful to have her integrated and on board as well.

    So as we talk about the focus moving forward, specifically to the HUD recovery dollars, the state received just over $1.6 billion from HUD, of which 220 5 million of that is going directly to the city of Asheville, and the state will administer the balance of approximately $1.4 billion right now. You know, we have a clear focus of of having to manage scarce resources. We did not receive near enough money to support the needs in western North Carolina. We will be working with many of you as we go into March on our next request for funding at the federal level, but until then, we have to manage scarce resources and set expectations and priorities. And so we are working diligently to prepare an action plan that's part of the process. That action plan mandates that we have certain financial controls in place and certain processes to protect the funds and to comply with the federal regulations. Thankfully, Commerce has many of those processes in place already because they spend the entitlement dollars, and so we are well positioned to comply with that and provide the transparency the funding processes that the federal authorities expect and as well as you and the local taxpayers expect, and then we will be engaging stakeholders consistently this Week and into really the next month or two, to communicate more about the details of what's in that action plan, as we kind of work to publish that and ultimately get HUD's approval, speaking to the funding, this is kind of the big picture. We had a request to the federal government in December of approximately $26 billion we right now estimate that we are actually going to receive approximately $15.7 billion that number is in flux based off of current executive orders, but also eligibility demands and just a kind of a moving target, but the summary is, ultimately that we need a lot more money to accomplish this task. It's not all going to come from any one source, and so we're going to have to get creative. We're going to have to make sure that we all understand going into this we don't all get everything we wish. We're going to have to make some hard decisions around what's achievable with the funds that we have, administer those funds wisely and do our best to serve the greatest needs.

    So we mentioned some of the interface that we have with the federal government, and we thought it might be helpful to you all to let you know what we're asking the federal government for the governor has communicated with the Office of the President in writing, and was good to go out there last Friday to meet with the President when he touched down in Asheville to communicate what's going on on the ground and his thoughts about what is needed. These are just a few of the items that have been mentioned, but really they fall into two categories. We need additional funds, and we need the ability to quickly and nimbly apply those funds to the felt needs that our residents are experiencing. There are ways that FEMA can do that, that the President himself can do that. There are some things that he can do with a stroke of the pen that are extremely helpful here on the ground. And of course, we're working not just with FEMA, but with HUD to make sure that we can move quickly and robustly and that we get that action plan finalized and the money flowing to residents, families, businesses and others in western North Carolina.

    So as we talk about critical areas moving forward, and our priority focus number one, we got to pick up the debris. We got to get it out of out of our communities as quickly as possible. People are tired of looking at it. It's unsafe. And we are taking steps to expand the debris mission on multiple facets. We are we are looking at every option, from the core to the National Guard to our state emergency management, expanding debris contractors as well, and so many of those things are have taken effect as of this week, and we were going to continue to push on that, but getting the debris out is a priority. Next is housing recovery. We've got to start doing permanent housing quickly. I have concerns that, based off the transition and the HUD funds, which are the only dollars that we have available to us for permanent housing recovery, that those dollars will be delayed in DC, outside of our control for a variety of reasons, and that those delays could put us at risk at not being able to meaningfully start housing until the fall. And for those of you from the West, know that when you go to pour concrete in the fall and it drops below 20 degrees consistently, it does not set particularly well. And so if we are going to build this summer, then start the work of permanent housing and make the best of 2025 we're going to have to come up with some creative solutions to permanent housing now regarding economic revitalization, and we get the debris out of there and get people back in their communities and safe, decent housing. We feel confident that take us a long direction into RE establishing of strong economic community in the West, we know that tourism is a vital part of that, and so getting it beautified is necessary, but we got to make sure that people have housing so they can work in those jobs there, and that people continue to want to live there. And so we're looking at grants for small businesses. We're looking at other options to really aggressively serve that community and do right by those businesses directly impacted by what ended up was a critical quarter that they missed there in the fall. And so the number of the concentration of retail businesses and tourism based businesses missing out on Christmas was particularly hard hit. And then road and bridge repair we got to have access transportation fuels, economy and so making sure that we have our public roads and bridges repaired, I 40 obviously being a critical path, but also the private roads and bridges, making sure that we have a mechanism through which to ensure everybody has access, safe access to the property, so The school busses, ambulances, police, cars, all of those necessary functions continue to operate well in western North Carolina.

    So that's our best attempt at break at brevity. Appreciate you all letting us go through a lot of information at a pretty good clip. Again, in the appendix, we've included some additional information about the advisory committee, as well as the osbm breakdown of the damages in the various categories. And so with that, Mr. Chairman will will conclude our presentation.

    Thank you, gentlemen, and I am told that the handouts or the PowerPoint that you all presented is online, and those accesses can be can be referenced if any body wants to look at them. I'll recognize any member of the committee now that may have questions or comments, just activate your life representative, Stevens,

    thank you, Mr. Chair. I think I have several questions, having been in a previous hurricane

    Recovery Committee, general lady is recognized for a series of questions. Thank

    you, sir. Thank you sir. I'm looking at your transportation budget, and I am looking at your appendix transportation. You've got 15 point 9 billion, and that includes covering 7000 miles of private roads and culverts. Is that something the state normally covers private roads.

    So I'll let Mr. Krebs talk a little bit more about the details. But just to by way of clarification, that number is derived from the ospm report that I think was published in December, if I'm not mistaken. So that is the an overall set of needs. And I just wanted to make sure it's not our budget. We wish we had the money to cover it all, but that is our the total set of assessed needs. And I'll defer to you, to talk about the details

    in terms of, does the state typically pay for that? Right now the feds are paying for a portion of that. So FEMA has programs established for private road and bridge, private road and bridge repair. Those programs are not particularly well suited for what we need here, and so I know many members have worked with the congressional delegation to amend those statutes to free up additional funding.

    I'm happy if we can fix the private roads with some money. I just didn't know if we had the money. Now, when you talk about having I think what you did? You say 15 billions always been approved, and we need 60 billion. How much of it? Does that include FEMA money? Yes, ma'am, that's all we have so far. And

    that's and that's estimated. So we have a sense of the general flow of FEMA funds, although there are ongoing funds there. In addition to that, we know that there's an appropriation for 1.6 5 billion from HUD, but those funds are estimated, not all those have been obligated so far. So that's if that clarification

    and are we covering business losses out west as well, we allow people to file a claim for that. I'm sorry you said a series of questions I didn't open.

    Oh yes, ma'am. I was just going to say I think our fiscal staff is going to be doing a presentation and maybe has some information regarding one or two of your questions. Okay,

    thank you. Thank you. Then let me ask you a question if you're going to be actually doing the groundwork, the making sure money gets to the right places. How many employees do you intend to hire and what will those employees be doing? Yeah, it's a great

    question. So within grow and see, we're going to have one or more program management staff who are tasked with making sure that we look at key performance indicators and metrics, not just on the qualitative side, and making sure that bridges get repaired or roads get repaired, or homes get built, but also that we have adequate financial controls on those funds. So there are going to be folks within grow and see who are going to be working on those issues, and we're building out that team. Now. I could not give you a total count of FTEs. The intention is to be lean. And Mr. Krebs and I have had a number of conversations about making sure we don't overshoot, and making sure that we hire based on demand, not based on hypotheticals about, you know, the number of people we might need. So our job is to get the best folks that we can and set up structures that allow us to effectively do that. Some of that's going to be in reporting. We talked the other day about making sure that we have the outcomes and the finances on the same reports, right? Because when you start divorcing those two things, you can run into a number of issues. So sure we will have one or more staff who's who are in charge of making sure that the money is spent at the appropriate rate. And by that, I mean, you don't want it to sit around. You want to get the people to the people who can use it. But also you don't want to spend it and then not know what you've spent and what you've committed beyond what you spent, and those sorts of things. And so we will have some number of staff. It will not be a giant team by any means. Sorry,

    I mean, but I'm talking about this week, we know that in court, hired like 200 customer service people that stayed in Raleigh. And so are you going to have people that are actually out in the west working with people? Are you going to hire a staff of three or 400 you know, what's the application process? So this sort of a multiple thing of questions, but I like what I'm hearing from you that you're going to be accountable.

    We will not have three to 400 people.

    The people you have will they be out west.

    So the people that we have will be mixed both here, because we have events like these that require transparency. There's the basic government, and we need the infrastructure that is in Raleigh to help support this mission. But the people doing the work will largely be based in the West, so we are exploring options for CO locating in office spaces within counties and municipalities, so that we can be present there with the team. The vast majority of the employee or the the staff that will be working in the West will likely be vendors, so that we can, we can immediately staff up and staff down as

    needed. And the last thing I'm going to ask is really almost a rhetorical question, but based on our history, do you promise that if you encumber money to build a house that it will stay encumbered and not be used a second time?

    Yeah, we we're not big fans of double counting, and I don't think we have any intention of doing so.

    So we've already set expectations in our transparency reporting that we will not only report on homes and units and widgets complete, whether it's road or a pipe or a house, but we'll also report on the dollars that those roads, pipes and houses cost, so that we are keeping our eye on both of those balls at the same time and ensuring that we understand that we have to be successful on both ends of that equation. We can get a lot done, but we've got to do within the bounds of the funding that we have. Thank you, Mister Speaker,

    Representative Stevens. I have next in the queue is representative McNeely, and then representative Edgar is on deck.

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I've got a series of questions also, if you'll let me ask yes

    sir. You recognize for a series of questions. Appreciate it in

    your Executive Order Number one, increasing temporary housing supply in western North Carolina. We've supposedly, I guess, taking away some of the roadblocks that were causing issues. But yet, last Friday, when I was up in Hickory, there was still, gosh, I don't know, look like 100 200 campers sitting up there. Why? This is January. People don't want them. They don't want them. I

    mean, to be as direct and honest with you guys as possible, we've made over 3000 phone calls, starting with the folks highest in need, and they're open to having a travel trailer, if we'll title it in their name and give it to them, but in terms of true temporary housing structure, within the confines of what FEMA will allow, most people don't want them. And it's not just our problem. It's fema's problem. It's nonprofits problem. Many of the charities have these these travel trailers and these image use modular units that are available to them, and they can't find people that want them and have a need. And so if you are aware of folks that need them, please, we have a hotline set up that will contact those folks immediately. We can provide that information because we want to make sure people are in a safe situation. The good news of the fact that they're not one travel trailers is that that's largely driven by the fact that they are in safeties and housing in some other form or fashion. And so the purpose of the executive order was give people a choice. And we've worked and we've we have a limited we are able to set those trailers much faster than the program that was operating before Christmas. Are

    we being held back by FEMA regulations? Because I've also been told that we cannot put these trailers that they don't have ability to hook to their sewer or to power or to water.

    I don't believe that we're being held back by FEMA. The utility barrier is a real barrier, but we can also use FEMA funds to solve that problem for those particular communities. But for many of you that have been out there and seen the devastation when when a town like Chimney Rock loses their entire water system ripped out from under the ground, it's difficult to solve that problem with just by putting the Travel Trailer and not having a way to keep water in the tank and to keep sinks and showers operable. And so it's a it's a balance. We got to make sure we are, in fact, putting them in a safer situation than perhaps the hotel or the rental apartment that they are presently in,

    and just to build on the points already being made, I believe missed. I won't hold director ray to it, but I believe in his presentation, he's got a slide laying out many of the housing choices that are being afforded to folks. We want to have a multi pronged approach, because we want to have we want to give people options so that they can pick what's best for them, and so you'll see that reflected. I believe in director Ray's presentation as well. All right, my

    next question, Mr. Chairman, from my understandings, was people in some of the relief organizations, EPA is basically keeping people from cleaning up the streams and rivers that are on their property. There's a deadline of, like, March of what I've been told before, they can allow to do anything. So this debris, which is not healthy, is just laying there on their property at the river's edge or all over it is this true? And why is this?

    I have to follow up with you on that. I'm not familiar with that specific concern, but I do know that we're working hard to scale the waterway Debris Removal challenge. I do know that when there is water, the folks may own that land, but they are still liable to the federal regulations governing that water, and so understand the problem. Want to get more information. Let's, let's find a solution for

    alright, and

    my last, my last question is, is, where is this money being parked at from the federal government? Is it being put into our state treasury, or is it being held at the executive branch? Or where's this money being kept that we're receiving from federal funding? Currently, that

    money is on pause, so it's nowhere, but it depends on the funding sources. The easiest answer that doesn't answer your question, but different funds come to the state in different ways. So for emergency management and funds through FEMA, they have a portal that allows them to submit claims for expenses that they've already incurred with state funds and then are reimbursed by federal dollars after the fact. But for example, the HUD dollars HUD gives you basically an access to a shared bank account from from HUD, and you ask HUD for a draw down, and they put money in that account, and then you pay for costs directly with those HUD dollars, rather than having to spend state funds first. There's just a couple of examples, but it's different. For every pot of money. To my knowledge, there's not a bucket of federal cash collecting interest on behalf of the State anywhere.

    And in addition to that, there are some streams of FEMA funds, for example, individual assistance that go directly to those in need. Do not come through the state at all.

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman, yes, sir. Representative Edgar, and then I have representative Blackwell in the queue.

    Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you all for being here. We really appreciate it. A lot of work to be done. And appreciate you all diving in and to do it. My I just got one question, or that's what I'm going to shoot for is and really it's about the CDBG our fund, or CDBG Dr funds. And, you know, obviously that's the kind of money that's available for permanent housing now. And what are the restrictions on that money going to be, you know, I mean, what I'm worried about is it that may help with some of the poorest folks, but there's going to be this kind of middle income tier that that we don't have any that's just a hole and no ability to help. And so what are those limits? And how do we, you know, look to fill that hole?

    Yeah, so just by way of background, I know we touched a little bit on this earlier. So through the HUD funding process for CDBG Dr, we put together an action plan, and that's in process. Now, once that is together, there's a public comment period that lasts for I think it has to be at least be 30 days. And so we'll be gathering comment from folks like you all, the advisory committee, from any number of town halls and other things that we'll be hosting that will help refine the plan, and then that goes to HUD as quickly as possible. Within that, and you correct me if I'm misstating anything, but within that, there are many different streams of funds, so there's a very elaborate process. And each one, as I understand it, has different restrictions on it. So some they're looking to see. You know what goes to Well, first of all their geographic parameters, right? So they want to see most of the money going to the most hard hit areas. But in addition to that, there are the different streams for multi family housing or single family housing, or any number of things have different parameters or expectations on them. We can get information on that and get it to you, but a lot of times they're based on local median income and those sorts of things. But we can run down more information on that, if that's helpful.

    So specifically representative, we didn't get enough money, and it's very likely that there will be a middle income group of people that are not going to be served because we run out of funds, because we're not going to duly encumber those funds and not actually have them to spend. Representative Stevens pointed out, if you want to fix that or deal with that, I recommend reaching out to the congressional delegation and letting them know the priority of receiving additional dollars to the state, and why that matters. Right now, the prioritization will focus on the poorest of the poor in North Carolina, and from there, we will work our way up to some extent of that income category. And if there's money to serve as higher income needs, there are ways, through HUD waiver processes, to service people that are in that middle to above middle income area. But I just don't know if we will have the funding to do that if we don't get additional

    dollars. Thanks. Is helpful. Thank you. Representative

    anger. I have representative Blackwell in the queue, and then I have representative Edens on deck.

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I have three questions I'd like to ask. One of the issues that has concerned me, and I think folks in my part of western North Carolina, was a message or understanding that I got, that FEMA was going to limit or not provide insurance to people with damage homes, for example, if they should have, if they had flood damage, but they did not have flood insurance. Can you all comment on that? I don't know if I've misunderstood it or if that is an issue,

    thank you. Represent black, so it's a little bit of a complex issue, but if, traditionally, we'll say, I'm generalizing here, but if a homeowner is required to have flood insurance, and that requirement would probably become be because they have a mortgage on their property and they are within the 100 year flood point if they're required to have flood insurance, and did not have flood insurance and then got flooded, then Stafford acts does not allow the federal assistance to aid that family. So that's at the root of the problem, there have been exceptions, there have been workarounds, or been other things to work through that problem. But it's not easy. And then moving forward, people that are required to have flood insurance because of the new flood mats have received assistance if they don't pay for that flood insurance, and they've been told they have to have it, they will be at risk of not being able to receive future federal assistance and future storms. And

    one of the things that I would flag for you now, because it will come up as we go forward. You know, there are a number of conversations about how we make sure we rebuild in a way where we are sturdier and more resilient going forward to any future storms, and how do we mitigate hazards? One of the things that we've talked about internally is how we better set up individuals and communities neighborhoods to access that flood insurance so that they'll be better protected next time around,

    to follow up, if I may. Mr. Chairman, yes, sir. The only problem is for a, let's say, a homeowner who has an outstanding loan that requires that he has flood insurance and he fails to comply with the terms of the loan. It's

    not necessarily the only instance. There could be instances where that property has flooded once before, and they have been told because they flooded once before. If they want future federal assistance, they got to get flood insurance, told by the feds, correct, the Feds may just simply be saying, We've noted that this property store flooded during Fred as an example. As a result, you were told to get flood insurance, and you did not.

    So if you haven't been told by the Feds before, and you don't have a loan document that requires you to have it, then you should be okay. Potentially

    Yes, potentially in most instances, yes.

    Chairman for second question, if I may, yes, sir FEMA came to Morganton and held a meeting there. And one of the concerns that I expressed to them was we had a shortage of plumbers and carpenters and contractors, the people that would be engaged in building homes before this happened, and I assumed that FEMA came, maybe that they had contractors identified. They made it clear they didn't. What he told me was that they had found in the past that contractors flood in. So I asked the question, well, you know, we're warned about not getting scammed and being careful. Do you all certify people that are flooding in so that our elderly and other folks know what they may be dealing with. And he said, No, we don't do that. My question to you is, what are you all going to do about that

    great question? I mean, I think part of our comms function is going to be managing some of those constituent concerns. We got appoint people to Better Business Bureaus, those types of functions that exist to protect consumers. But that's that's not an easy challenge, because some of these businesses show up overnight and and make big promises and they will scam folks. So you know, that's really going to be something that we keep the Attorney General aware of keep everyone involved in the enforcement of quality services involved in as it relates to the federal funds that we spend, we will have builders

    that are certified to qualify and to build on that last point, with respect to the funds that we control, one of the premises that we've talked a lot about is paying for outcomes, not effort, right? So it's not about being on the job, it's about what you've produced. And so with respect to the funds that we can control, we'll put in some countermeasures and some protections there, but that's certainly on the to do list, to reach out to folks like the attorney general or whoever may be appropriate, to make sure that we inform the public, and then on a sort of block and tackle basis, see what we can do to combat fraudsters, because you're right. There's a spike when these sorts of incidents occur.

    My phone question relates to the persisting huge piles of debris. What do our constituents What do we tell our constituents today about what they can do or should do or should expect, with respect to the debris that is on them, around them, and so forth.

    So just generally speaking, we've got, you know, estimates ranging from 10 to 40 million cubic yards of debris, it's a lot, and it's going to take some time, and so we need to manage expectations around the timeline. But I will tell you what the state is doing right now to expand efforts. So director Ray has made considerable efforts with his team to expand the contracting mechanisms, to deploy multiple Debris Removal firms to the state. Traditionally, we've kind of been beholden to one on that contract mechanism, and now we've said no, all can come, if you're willing to work at the price we read to all can come pick up debris. So that process was just finalized earlier this week, late last week, and so that is going to expand the capacity and the volume of debris that we're able to remove. We also have the core deployed in some communities. We are working diligently to expand their capacity, but at the end of the day, is a very big mission, and we need as many hands as possible going at it. And that starts first with right away removal, getting it out of the street so we can drive trucks up and down the road and try and restore commerce as best we can. And then it moves to the waterway after that, get it out of the streams and the rivers to clean those up. And then after that is the personal property debris removal. That's the stuff that people are seeing and they're tired of seeing. It's in their front yard. It's it's the building that's been lost in the middle of downtown, and that's the lowest priority of debris. And why that hasn't started, because there has been so much of the vegetative and right away debris that's being removed.

    And to add a little bit of complexity to that, the way that a lot of this works is that localities, counties, municipalities, will make a decision as to whether what contractor they want to go with. It could be the core and the course contractor. It could be that the state contractor now, contractors that we've set up, but and basically they make the decision about who to go with, and then their relationship is with those contractors. So we want to make sure that we've got the bandwidth to handle any incoming that we can going forward.

    One follow up on that please. Is there any category of debris subject to your getting the bandwidth that you need and the priorities that you set? Is there any category of debris that is not going to be eligible for cleanup through your programs that the constituent may still have to deal with, assuming that it's related to the storm? Go

    ahead. I don't know. I would defer to Director Ray he's going to present here shortly. That's a great question for him. So

    I'm not aware of any category. We can take a look at that. But one thing I will say is that when the debris is on private property, there are a few additional hurdles to make sure that there are the resident or the property owner signs a right of entry. So there are some additional hurdles. I wouldn't say that that's a prohibition, but it is just a logistical obstacle, and perhaps that's something that you all can help us communicate at the appropriate time.

    Thank you and Representative Eden's, I think represent Blackwell may have covered your question. All right, so on to Representative Turner, and then I have representative pledge in the queue.

    Thank you, Mr. Chair and Mr. COVID, Mr. Krabs, thank you for being here today. I've looked through your presentation. I've looked through the presentation that Mr. White is going to give and the one that director Ray is going to give, and I don't see any mention across these three of the 100 million dollars that was given to the treasurer's office for cash flow loans to local governments. How or what is grows relationship going to be with the treasurer's office if we're talking about accountability of funds, making sure they're getting spent properly, is there going to be any kind of collaboration or crossover between you and Mr. Ploy who's heading up that project? We

    certainly hope that there will be, and that's a pending conversation that we ought to have with them. Obviously, the treasurer's office is an independent counsel of state entity, but we certainly do want to collaborate. What I will say is each municipality, each county, whoever has to make their own decision as to whether they can take those loans with the expectation as to the timeline that they will pay it back. But that's certainly part of the broader equation, and we want to be communicative about

    that representative. We have reached out to the treasurer's office. My understanding is they because of the questions that we've received from localities trying to access those funds, we've heard the cash flow concerns, and that is a mechanism that the assembly put in place to address those concerns. Our understanding is the treasurer's office is hiring a vendor to administer those dollars, and they're in the process of doing that procurement. So I don't know that that program has been activated yet. Last our conversation was they were still waiting on that to happen.

    Mr. Chair, considering that $100 million is not an insignificant amount of money, maybe when we're looking at 60 billion, it feels that way. I'd like to ask it for future committee meetings that the treasurer's office Treasurer's Office come and present on their plans for that 100 million that's been sitting

    there. Think that's a good suggestion. Thank you. I have representative place, and then representative Cunningham's on deck.

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I said I watched intently to some of the things that are going to be accomplished through this. And then I was disappointed when you said there was no money today. If you had to open your wallet, what do you have to work with to implement any of this that's being said.

    So the FEMA dollars were reactivated today. So although there was the pause that impacted all grant funds, I believe yesterday and my days are confused, I apologize, but they did reactivate that portal today, so we have FEMA funds now that we are actively spending and reimbursing in real time every day, throughout the the emergency f, h, w, a, dollars are flowing as well to do t so roads are getting fixed on the public side, we do not have access to HUD funds. HUD, I talked to them today, HUD does not have access to the HUD funds. Those funds have not been moved over to their checking account, per the HUD folks, as they typically would have been done after an appropriation is made. And so SBA dollars are moving. We don't have access to those. Those go direct to individuals, as Mr. Director, collaborator mentioned, and so FEMA IA dollars are also flowing. Many of those dollars go directly to individuals, so we do not have access to those. The assembly has set aside money for match funds, but those have not necessarily been appropriated to an activity yet. And so we are. We are in need of some spending authority here very soon. We can either wait for the feds to give it to us through HUD, or we can take action, because you direct us to

    So, so you're spending other people's money, but you have none. You still have to go to FEMA and say, will you pay for this? So,

    so there are established processes whereby FEMA, they're almost like entitlement programs, that FEMA is absolutely going to reimburse certain streams, certain categories of damages. And you know, our job is to make sure that what we what we do gets reimbursed by FEMA. So some of it up front money, and that's flowing in. Some of it is very clearly reimbursable. In the industry standard is that there's a very clear process by which you get reimbursed. And because they want states to do that work, they want states to be able to rely on FEMA, not just pray that FEMA pays them back. So we're working through those, those processes. And then, in addition to the HUD funds that we already talked about, one of the things that we've communicated to the federal government repeatedly is that we anticipate there to be a bill in the March time frame related to the wildfires in California. And so our message there is, don't forget us. Remember that we have ongoing needs here, and we want to be able to put forward some needs as well. And so we're working on that. We know some of the early conversations in Washington DC are happening already. And so that's that's part of the overall plan as well. So I just wanted to footnote that. And

    at the more granular level, em has access to funds in an emergency that are appropriated by the state to spend those funds as necessary for the safety of the state. Those funds he spends, the agency spends, and are ultimately reimbursed by FEMA for note when it's for an eligible activity. We also are working to partner with private dollars and leverage those dollars with state funds were appropriate to accomplish some objectives. So we do have some pockets of money, pockets of money that are funding, for example, or the grow and see function and the DCR function right now as we move towards ultimately being funded by federal sources. The

    other thing that I think is of note is that in the updated report that osbm produced, I believe to you all, maybe a week or two ago, there's some information, maybe on page four, something like that, that talks about the fact that the different state agencies have put forward. I don't want to speak out of turn, but I think it's 780, something million dollars of their own individual fund balance money on an emergency basis to help cover a lot of the early stage costs, and so we've seen the agencies try to stretch their dollars as much as possible to make sure they can respond appropriately. Well,

    I think the situation that we're in representative ager and Prather and Turner all in the room we just saw where Bucha county had to freeze hiring because they have went out on that promise that they're going to get reimbursed, and they spent a lot of money. I watched them as they've cleaned up and done a lot of things well, now all sudden, they can't function government because they're waiting on it. I don't want us in a situation to where we're spending somebody else's money under the pretense that they're going to give it back to us, because the 1.9 billion you talked about earlier is here, but it's not here. I'm concerned that this is great, but it's not doing anything. It sounds good to the media and it sounds great, but it does nothing to put my people back where they need to be but they're all sitting here watching the news and going, Hey, where's all this money that's coming to us? And nobody is telling the truth. There is no money right now that we can put people together. You were talking about private roads and bridges and how FEMA is paying for that. I had a lady call me, and she got $58,000 for a private road and bridge. The problem with that is the bridge is over $150,000 great FEMA gave her money to sit in a bank and wait. But the way it's being presented is that famous taking care of it and they're not. The frustration is real for the people that are up there, you are going to buy order 1000 campers, and then you turn around and say, nobody wants them. But there's also another problem that no one's telling you can't put them in a flood plain. Well, the people that flooded are in a flood plain. So there's a lot of things going on. We are we are we are we are. And I will have to commend emergency management, because they have done a good job of addressing some immediate needs, especially at the local government level. But I want to hear what we're going to do and then find out we have no money and we're not really doing anything if we're going to have a meeting and we're going to talk about what we're going to do, we're going to do, let's talk about what we're accomplishing, and let's talk about how much money we have, or we're all adults in the room, tell us how much money you need, so that we can move forward and start putting these people back together. I know it doesn't happen overnight, and I know it doesn't happen as quickly as it was destroyed, but so far, we haven't moved the needle. That's all. Mister Chair, thank

    Representative, bless representative Cunningham and Representative Willis.

    Thank you, Mister Chair. I'm not sure, but I'm going to divert just a little bit. I have a primary care provider this up in Banner elk and I reached out to the department, and they're providing primary care services to individuals, and they've seen over 200 people, and they've been up there about three months free, charging nothing. They've been up there. And they came to me and they asked me, was it going to be any RFPs coming out because they want to stay, but they're not getting reimbursed for nothing that they're providing up there. And I checked with the department, and of course, I have a hurting thing back, but now to hear that you're saying that there is no money, I'm like, this is really wild, but we know that when the COVID pandemic hit, a lot of money came in, and a lot of money got stolen, misused, and all kind of things happened. So I'm hoping that this is an opportunity for you all to provide to the public so they're not scammed, so they're not gone. Who the agencies are given the RFPs to, so that they can be identified when the state give those contracts out that these people connected to the state and they are reliable and they are responsible, that's the opportunity that I could see for when the money gets here, and I will reach back to the department again to keep looking at when money is going to start flowing and when primary care can still be provided to the people that still don't have transportation, still don't have their sewer working in their Place, and still don't have a home. I

    want to clarify briefly. Thank you for your comments. We have access to funds. The reason that we ask permission for FEMA, whether we can do X, Y, Z project, is to ensure that it is a reimbursable activity. These are the systems that we have to work within to fund recovery. To some extent, we have to ask for permission act accordingly with state funds first and then reimburse ourselves with federal dollars. That's the FEMA system. There are other systems out there as well, but the only way to break out of that system is to appropriate state dollars. Excuse me, that's an opportunity that we will come to you with an ask. We will address the need, but we know that we have to have appropriators help us meet the gap, and that gap is significant

    and to your point. And thank you to representative, plus for your injunction, we will come back at the appropriate time with an evidence, detailed request for additional funds. I was actually just looking at some numbers this morning in response to Hurricane Florence, which had an estimated $16.7 billion of damages, the state funded about $1.06 billion in response here we're obviously looking at nearly $60 billion in damages, and so we'll certainly be coming to you all to see what we can do in an evidence way to provide more predictability and more leeway with the funds that we do have.

    Thank you Representative Willis. And then we have representative clamp it in the queue.

    Thank you, Mister Chair first. Let me just say I commend you both for for being here today and sharing what you know, what efforts are in place, and we certainly won't. We won't saddle this administration with the failures of the previous administration, but we know we've got folks who are clearly in need, and so we happy to take this offline afterwards, but I've got examples in multiple families who are actively pursuing and waiting for temporary housing in campers that will take a tent if you have it. So I need to know who to talk to today to get these folks, because they've been waiting and been denied and denied and denied. We've got a list of families who have cashed their tried to cash their FEMA checks, and the checks don't clear. We've got a list of those people. We've had a group coming out of Union County for, you know, for months now. I mean, this, this hit in September, and we're now in January, and the fact that some of these folks don't even have the basics at this point is inexcusable. And so, you know, as we move forward, the two things that I'll ask is one, we need complete transparency and complete accountability. Because there's been no transparency, there's been no accountability. And you know the fact that this state has gone through numerous iterations of hurricane disasters and relief over the years, and you know are some of our colleagues down east, Representative Bell and and others that have been fighting this fight for a long time, and the fact that we don't have a playbook from A to Z for these communities who have gotten hit, and nobody really expected this much damage in the mountains. I mean, we could admit that, but there should be a playbook ready to go from day one, and these local folks know who to reach out to. They know how to get the help. They know where to go. But, you know, women, when Representative Green has to, you know, to hike down the mountain to get to the fire department, to use his cell phone, because the only place in the county that can get service. I mean, we've got significant issues, and we've still got folks out in the cold, out of their homes with no hope at this point. And so, you know, I just cannot emphasize enough the urgency that these folks need, and while we're sitting here in our comfortable chairs with lights and heat and food and water, you know, there are folks out there that's in there for months without that, and it's inexcusable for folks in the state of North Carolina for that to happen. And so we ask for your help in getting this resolved as quickly as possible. But I need to know who to talk to today to get these folks in the services that you say you have available. So if we can follow up as soon as is over, I would appreciate that, and if there's a central point of contact, we need that. I mean, we've been going case by case by case to the senator's office out of DC or here in North Carolina, wherever we can to get help. But we need that, and we need it

    today. Let's please follow up afterward and appreciate your comments. I know director ray will talk a little bit about the disaster case management system that's up and running, but let's individually connect and get the contact information for the folks that you mentioned, so we can make sure somebody reaches out. The other thing in I'll say, the medium term that we're hoping to stand up is sort of single point of contact, right? Residents don't care. Well, this goes, you know, this service is provided by this agency or that agency, or whatever they need help, and we need to get it to them. And so we are ultimately going to be working on a protocol that provides a single front door for residents, for businesses, whoever to access and to receive guidance in case management. And obviously, again, we have the DCM that's set up, but we want to build on that. But yeah, I would love to circle back with you.

    All right. Thank you, Representative Clampett and then representative Prather.

    Thank you, Mr. Chair, Mr. Cribbs, thank you for instantly taking my call about that issue, and I just spoke to Holly a few minutes before the meeting on the last four on this, expeditiously removing the red tape with these salvaged and damaged vehicles, etc, and that's speaking back to the executive orders. What? What's the update with that? Please. So

    thank you for the for the context of the of the burden. It does seem like probably a very reasonable and appropriate process for disposing of an abandoned or damaged vehicle on a regular Thursday, but post disaster, when you have a number of these vehicles that need to be removed from waterways or from driveways, we got to find a faster way. And so I spoke with folks in Buncombe County that were highlighting the problem, and to make sure we understand what their solutions are, they're coming back to us with a recommendation of what would be helpful and meaningful, and we'll take that into consideration, because I certainly in reading the emails, it was almost humorous at how hard it was to throw away some garbage effectively, which is what we're talking about.

    Follow Mr. Chair, yes, sir, with that, appreciate that I believe that we could put enough parameters around that to have sunset date and time and where it would be a contract between that particular entity and the county government, that way their fraud that could be tied to something like that would be avoided, where it wouldn't be just a citizen calling to say, Come to get this vehicle. We don't really know where that vehicle has been paid for insurance or declared as part of the flood damage or whatever. Additional question, Mr. Chair, yes, sir. We mentioned about roads and bridges, etc. I have a railroad in my area that gets items out of Asheville, and they have to use Blue Ridge. Blue Ridge suffered some damage in their part. I think that's representative places area probably used to have that few years ago. But is there any discussion about the work on the railroads to get the railroad the western part of the state back up and taken care of where they can get they're needing some balance. They're needing ties that are Annie new rails, because it is an excursion service. We do rely on tourism.

    So I have not had specific conversations about the railroad recovery, but that's certainly something that we can look at and explore. I know that have learned that the Railroad Commission has a lot of different authorities and ways that they go about doing things, and so we want to make sure that we understand what funding mechanisms are available to them and work through that.

    Okay, thank you, mister, yes, sir. And

    Representative Prather,

    Thank you, Mister Chair. Just a brief comment. It seems like a lot of these questions are really more relevant to FEMA, then into our state agencies so similar to Representative Turner's recommendation or request, if we could, in a future meeting, have a representative directly from FEMA that we could be asking these questions up. Thank you. Think

    that would be good making sure I don't have anyone else in the queue. Anyone else have any other questions? Representative Penny.

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman, excuse me. I think I heard these two gentlemen say that monies had been appropriated in the last few days, or maybe last week. I have one early on, we had a lot of contractors eastern North Carolina with bulldozers, excavators, debris removal equipment, and it was almost impossible with the number we were given to ever get them there. Some of them just went and did the work and came home. But I just texted a somebody who was FEMA approved for stream medication, for debris removal with multiple tub grinders, four to six, who's been wanting to go to western North Carolina to grind that debris, which makes it a mulch. It's my understanding from him, they actually have, excuse me, magnets on these machines to pull any metal out. So what I would like is a and supply to all the members of this phone numbers that we can talk to a live human being that will point people who've got the ability to go hip and make their application, whether it's to these two gentlemen, FEMA or whatever, so we could get the help there. North Carolina is a tremendous state down east where I live. Obviously, hurricanes is pretty much a regular thing with us, so we're always dealing with it. So we have people in place in this state who want to help their neighbors in the western part of state, we just need a live human being to talk to, to coordinate, getting the people where they need to be. Thank you.

    And possibly Mr. Ray might be able to shed a little more light on how that process works. When he does this presentation, I have representative Gillespie and then representative pearl in the queue.

    Thank you, Mister Chairman comment and just a couple questions. First off, thank you for coming today. Thank you for presentation. Thank you for being willing to come before this comedian and and help us understand this situation. Going back to Representative Stevens comments about personnel and and we certainly understand it will take additional personnel, and the placement, in particular the placement of those personnel. And I appreciate your comment that there needs to be a certain number of folks that are located here to accommodate our needs, I would, I would suggest, based on on my understanding of the internet Interstate between here and there and and I think maybe my colleagues along this Road Could, could clarify that if I'm off base, but that roads open and clear for travel, there's no way that that I can adequately describe to you the devastation the look on people's faces in western North Carolina, with you sitting in office in Raleigh. So I just can't encourage you enough to put those people in Western North Carolina. But for multiple reasons, I think they'll be more productive. Because I believe that the best decisions are made when you're where the water hits the wheel, and it's not hitting the wheel in Raleigh, it's hitting a fan. In western North Carolina, you need to have your people on the ground. And the third, and the most important reason that you would want to do that is so that the people of Western North Carolina know that there's folks on the ground to help them. I'm fifth generation from western North Carolina. I grew up with my parents and grandparents growling about Colin, Raleigh, and you don't get a phone call back. Some of my kinfolk in complain about jaws. Accent,

    yeah, they do talk fun,

    but if you're on the ground, we'll make allowances for you. Accent, because you're there, because you care. So can't over emphasize that. Last things, couple questions, if you go back to this your second or third slide, just tell us one that outlined the damage totals astronauts keep, keep going back. Thanks, maybe third slide, yeah. Thank you. Appreciate your comment. You know that this isn't about effort. This is about what we accomplish, and and, and not to over simple thing, five things. But if you look up there, those 105 lost, six were lost. We can't, we can't bring those back. But what I would, I would love to know is other four items, you know, those 74,000 home, how many of them prepared, done and and, you know, I understand the funding issues. I understand the dynamics of what we're faced with, but you know, just point blank of the 5k miles of roads that's impacted, how many miles of that is fixed, because to me, that's the measuring stick for the comment that you made. All those other is important, and we need to talk about we need to understand it. But at the end of the day, if there's 50 million cubic yards of debris, There's 50 million yards of debris that needs to be removed, and there's a number we've removed, how many cubic yards? So we're X percent done. We're X number of days in it, and we spent X number of dollars doing it, if we can get it boiled down to something like that, I think would go a long way towards helping me understand we're really making any headway with this, or are we just talking, or we and we're planning, and we're doing a lot of other things to try to get it done, but we're really we're just putting out a lot of effort, and We're not getting any results. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

    I was just going to say everything that you just said resonates very much, and I appreciate that. In the long run, our hope is to provide I don't have the numbers with me, though I keep referring to your presentation, but I know you've got some updated numbers on some of the progress there. But again, in the medium and long run. Our hope is that we've got clear dashboards that we can present that information to you so you can look at it whenever you want. And certainly we're we're good, go first. We can run anything down that that you need anytime. But also, in addition to that,

    all right, I have representative Pearl and then representative Dixon in the queue.

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My question centers around a comment made by my friend and colleague, Representative pliss. He talked a little bit about Buncombe County doing a hiring freeze because it expended so many dollars on the front end, and which I guess, could potentially put a pause on the core services they provide their community, even the ones that need, until they reimbursed on the back end. And I can't help but believe that Buncombe County is probably not alone with many municipalities and local governments in the western part of the state. So I'm just wondering what strategy you have in place to help those communities, those local governments, continue to provide the services that are needed while they on the front end and not just the back end, not just the reimbursement. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

    So a couple of strategies there, number one, making sure that they understand how to access the funds that the assembly has already provided. To solve that challenge with the cash advance efforts with Treasury, getting that launched is critical make sure we communicate how to access that. There are also ways within FEMA to do expedited PW is that advanced dollars to these communities, all they have to do is request that. So we need the county managers, the municipal emergency managers, reaching out to their points of contact at North Carolina emergency management to understand that process so they can get dollars in the door before that they before they've had to write the check, some of those decisions are being made based off of their understanding of tax receipts, what they're seeing, and that negative dip from the previous quarter, and the uncertainty of whether or not there's when it's going to turn around, when we're going to find normalcy again. And so, you know, we want to do our best to make sure that they have options, but, but it is a very real challenge right now. We don't have a funding stream for lost revenue, and there are hesitancy to take on more debt. And so, you know, at some point in time, if this challenge continues to persist, we're going to have to talk about what it looks like to do some sort of revenue replacement grant to communities, but that sets a challenging precedence, and so we're doing our best to inform about the mechanisms that are available to them now, and hope that that will fill the void. So

    I'd second what Mr. Krebs just described. But in addition to that, one of the things that we heard about when we were, gosh, first of, second, third of January out in Swannanoa, for example, was folks saying, you know, I want to get federal assistance, but it feels like I've got this pile of tax forms basically to fill out in order to get that assistance. And I go to my county and they say, Well, I'd love to help you, but we're swamped right now, and so the follow on consequence is, you know, when you've got local governments that are just trying to get their keep their nose above water, they're not able to do all the additional things that might be put upon them as a result of the recovery effort. So one of the things that we're working on is ultimately trying to stand up a better intergovernmental apparatus, and then some additional technical assistance so we can get people to the right place, and not because the default is, of course, you're going to call your local folks, your local government. And so how can we support them, or readjust the streams of phone calls that they're getting to to get to the right people.

    All right. Thank you. Have representative Dixon and then representative Loftus.

    Thank you, Mister Chair. Thanks gentlemen for the presentation, having been involved in several instances of this state, trying to assist people, trying to help people. One of the factors that once we determine some figure that represents damage. In the past, we have had discussions about, to what extent are we going to be able to help people? In other words, I think it's obvious that we can't make everybody a whole. I think that's we want to help. What To what degree have you will have you discuss, once you know these figures, a target of the extent to which we're going to assist people, since we cannot make everybody whole,

    yeah, as the I'll start. I mean, as the financial picture gets clearer and clearer, that'll enable us to identify those targets. I mean, when we're looking at So HUD, the HUD action plan, for example, we're looking at grants of a maximum size and all that. And then if you have this much money, and an individual grant comes this much, well, that tells you how many grants you can you can lay out, and so a lot of that is for better or worse in process. But I think you're right. We need to be very clear about the funding available to us. The other thing well, and frankly, I mean, one of the things that we've been reflecting on is making sure that we are not only we make decisions at the appropriate pace, but that we communicate those the last thing you want is someone who doesn't qualify for assistance to be waiting around because we're afraid to tell them no, and then we eventually tell them no. And so to your point, we want to make sure that as soon as we get some some crystallization on the funding and what can reasonably be expected with HUD and any other number of other things that we start putting out numbers of this is what we've got, and this is how many, how many widgets we can produce, one way or another. So

    well, well taken. You

    know, one of the real challenges that we're wrestling with, and why this feels painfully hard on the financial side, is that we're coming out of an unprecedented period of spending. When we look back at the amount of federal dollars for things like revenue replacement at counties, for infrastructure for individuals, and rental assistance and housing assistance, all related to the pandemic, they spent trillions, and the consequence of that has now set an expectation for this very different event, and the funding is not the same, and so we're having to make hard decisions and having to wrestle with this new reality, and we're going to continue to push forward through that and set those priorities, communicate those priorities, so that people understand what we can and can't do.

    All right, I have Thanks, sir. I have representative Loftus. Thank

    you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for the presentation. Over the weekend, I was part of a conference on education for North Carolina, and had the chance to interact with the Assistant Superintendent from Buncombe County, who made us aware that normally they had 375 or so homeless students since Hurricane Helene, they're now at 1300 homeless students, and some of those students are being housed in different areas and parts of Buncombe County, but it's now the school's responsibility to transport these students back to their home school, which comes to about $45,000 a month in unbudgeted funding. And at the same time, on top of that, they were notified by Buncombe County that the county is recalling some $4 million of funding that they had guaranteed to the school system, that's a huge opportunity to back fill those holes. And at the same time, I see almost daily where there are major contractors, major corporate sponsors, mom and pop, people across America who are donating money to the effort. Is there any way of capturing that information that's coming in to support hurricane relief efforts across the spectrum, or the enterprise between business, mom and pops? Communities? I think North Carolina wants to know how much money is coming into that so that we can know what the needs are really from us as legislators, not to say, Well, if you give $1 we can cut $1 to offset that. But the response has been, well, I just kind of want to know how much money is coming to North Carolina through all these endeavors. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

    Thank you, sir. And to your point, one of the things that we've been trying to do is build an apparat. I don't think we're going to ever know about every dollar that comes in, but one of the things we're trying to do is build out an apparatus so that we have a better lay of the land. We can get a good at least, course, cut on the dollars that are coming in. But that's so Part A is monitoring, and then Part B is kind of going on offense and saying to various national or international or state foundations, hey, you know, these are the targets we're trying to paint. How can you help us? How can we partner? You know, if we find some money, or if this other foundation gives some money, what can you do to match that. So one of our first hires, other than our deputy, Emily Ganges, was Eliza Edwards, who's lives out is stationed out in Waynesville right now. She is our Director of Community Partnerships, and so she is working on others. You know, it's it's a lot of just block and tackle and making phone calls and sending emails, but we're trying to build those philanthropic relationships and build that that structure so that we can do that, partly for monitoring, partly for situational awareness, and then partly so that we can again go On offense and capture more dollars. All right,

    representative, Tyson, and then I think the last question will be representative Willis is going back with one more follow up.

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman, you say there's estimated 74,000 homes damage. Do you have those broken down into different categories, from destroyed to maybe loss of shingles or,

    I don't have that data on me right at the moment, but yes. FEMA, can you categorize Yeah.

    Can you get that to us? Please? Yes, sir. We'll get it to you and and based on your past experiences with Hurricane Florence, Irene Matthews, which is recent history. Really, do you have your hands wrapped, your arms wrapped around how long a recovery This is realistically going to be before your 80% 90% 100% of the structures. I'm just talking about the structures, not necessarily the, you know, other ancillary infrastructure stuff would be put in place, assuming that we can get the necessary funds from the federal government, matching state government,

    if things go well the way that they're supposed to, from a funding perspective, you know, we have six years to spend the HUD funds. We intend to do it faster. So I think we could, you know, our goal will be to be largely complete with the housing function in the over the next four year period of term. And then in regards to the other structures, when we start talking about some talking about some of the municipal systems, water, roads, bridges, some of those things that are just take time that probably could drag out to, you know, over the next 10 years, just in the course of events, some of that time is is involved in trying to make those structures better. And so there are funding mechanisms available to do that, and that's part of making the community stronger. And so there's a balance there, making sure we take advantage of those opportunities for long term success, but also having the interim solutions that we need to get back to daily life as quickly as possible. But I think we need to be comfortable around a 10 year mark,

    so there's no doubt just to build on that. Obviously, there's no doubt this is going to be a long haul, but we're they're going to be unforeseen circumstances, but ultimately, we want to try to control as many variables that we can. And so obviously the funding that we come back to you all will influence that. The other thing you saw it in our federal agenda is working with President Trump's administration to see what we can do to extend what's called the 100% match period. So there is a period currently six months from the storm till end of March, where FEMA provides 100% match for the for certain reconstruction, certain repair efforts. At the end of that time, the match goes from 100% to 90% now that doesn't sound like a lot. Sounds like a good deal if you're going to the grocery store, but what that means, because of the enormity of the damage, is that that 10% scares a lot of folks away because it's multi millions of dollars coming out of local budgets or whatever it is, who are already strapped. And so one thing we can do, and really this is one of the top two or three priorities for our federal agenda, is seeing if we can extend that another six months. That's what we've asked President Trump for. It can be done by executive order. It can also be done by Congress. But we're trying to highlight that, because I think that kind of thing will prevent local governments and others from being scattered off on the repairs that they need

    follow up. Mr. Chair, yes, sir, the model that you're going to use for the rebuild, for the construction part for people's homes, is that based on similar model that you use for Florence, or has been used for some of the other hurricanes. In other words, you're going to take advantage of the NGOs as much as you can. I assume

    so many of these nonprofits are doing tremendous work right now every day, and we're going to do everything we can to encourage them and facilitate as much of that work as possible, because we know there will be needs that aren't met, but there will be eventually, procurement for builders that oftentimes partner with NGOs To execute a construction mission where we will define the types of homes we're going to build, and a repair program and replacement program, elevation standards, all of those things, and set them under a strict timeline of how quickly they have to build those homes, and assign those out to builders to scale a very large repair reconstruction program rapidly,