S11 E10 Brad Cohen: An Inside Look at a School Leader with Tourette Syndrome
6:49PM Nov 22, 2023
Speakers:
Tim Villegas
Keywords:
tourette
kid
brad
educators
teacher
school
tics
people
inclusive education
movie
learn
tourette syndrome
threats
principal
remember
noises
life
wanted
heaven
students
got my coffee
headed into interview, Mr. Brad Cohen is the assistant principal. And this is special to me because Fred was my assistant principals when I taught. And we've been meaning to set this up for a while. So here we go. I'm very fortunate to be a podcaster. And when you are a podcaster, you meet a lot of interesting people, a lot of people that you may want to interview one day, and sometimes it takes years to schedule and record an interview. This is one of those times second line Thank you, sir.
Hi, friends. I'm Tim Villegas, from the Maryland Coalition for Inclusive Education and you are listening to think inclusive, our podcast that brings you conversations about inclusive education and what inclusion looks like in the real world. Brad Cohen is an educator, author and motivational speaker, and I'm glad to call him my friend. He has Tourette's syndrome, and has dedicated his career to advocating for individuals with disabilities. Brad has written a book called front of the class how Tourette Syndrome made me the teacher I never had, and his story has been made into a Hallmark movie, and most recently, a Bollywood film and real talk. I've been trying to get an interview with Brad on thinking cluesive Since about 2017. So so glad this is finally happening for this episode. Brad discusses the misconceptions surrounding the condition and the challenges he faced in finding a job. He emphasizes the importance of understanding and support from educators, as well as the need to focus on students strengths, rather than their weaknesses. Brad shares his personal experiences and encourages families to be open and honest about their child's disability, while also advocating for self acceptance and perseverance. He highlights the power of education and making a difference, inspiring others. This week's episode is brought to you by us. That's right, the Maryland Coalition for Inclusive Education. MCIE is a nonprofit organization dedicated to supporting schools and school systems on their journey to create inclusive school communities where all children and youth feel a sense of belonging and have equitable educational opportunities that result in high levels of academic success. To learn more about how MCIE can provide customized technical assistance and professional learning for your school or district, visit MCIE.org After a quick break my interview with Brad Cohen and make sure to stick around at the end of the episode for free time. This week. I've got a song that will hopefully put a smile on your face. We will be right back
righty Kellen Welcome to the thinking quizzes podcast.
Thank you. It's good to be here.
So Brad, you actually hired me? Well, you mean you in principle, but you hired me for a teaching job? That was a while ago now.
That's crazy. I think about like that. Yeah, well,
yeah. And, and I remember I never, I had never, I had not met you before our interview. Okay. But my supervisor was like, Oh, yeah. You know, who's at that school? is, you know, Brad, and, you know, he's the, he's the administrator. He has Tourette's and, you know, we can hear him sometimes it like the staff meetings and stuff like that. And I was like, Oh, okay. All right. You know, it's cool. And so I remember walking down the, you know, the hallway to meet with you and the principal. And, you know, just having you in the room it was, you know, it was it was great. It was awesome. I felt like oh no, I felt at home. Oh, that's good. Yeah, yeah, that's great. Do you remember that?
I vaguely remember your interview? Yeah, I do. And I mean, we I remember, we were really impressed with you. So that's what I remember about it. And like we got, we need this guy right here our school, we thought you'd be a good match. So, but yeah, I mean, most people have that feeling they know a little bit about me. And, and then they, then they meet me and they just, they, they just kind of deal with it, you know, deal with the threats?
Yeah. So I guess. Like, you know, like we've been talking about, you've been doing this for a long time. So for people who haven't met you or haven't, like, thought about what it's like to work with, or, you know, be in the same school with a person with Tourette's? Like, what are some misconceptions about that?
I think some of the biggest misconceptions, you know about it, like for me growing up, so the biggest misconceptions was that it's a behavior problem. You know, like, Brad just can't control his behavior. So I had to overcome that stereotype. You know, then I think as adults, I think the biggest misconception is just that if, if you have Tourette's, you're kind of disabled. So you probably can't do the work as well as everyone else. So I just kind of get out there, and I do my thing. And I try to, you know, have people treat me like everybody else. And I think after they get to know me, after a while, they'll see that I can do the job just as well as anybody else.
Yeah. Yeah. So what kinds of things did you come up against, though, as, as a person like, trying to overcome some of those misconceptions? Can
you talk about like, as a kid or as an adult, either one, I'd say like, the biggest challenge, I think, was me trying to find a job for the first time, I went on 25 different interviews before someone finally believed in me. And when they gave me a chance, you know, they made some people just knew that they didn't want to hire a guy with Tourette's, they didn't want to put that on the plate. And then other people were were up, maybe up for the challenge, but they had to get other people to be up for the challenge, too. So maybe the administrator was willing to do it. But the team I was going to be on was a little apprehensive. So we really had to find the right match. And so at the time, it was really hard, it was really difficult because I just, I just wanted to be a teacher, I knew I could do it, I want to make a difference. I was ready in the classroom and, and do my thing. But, but we had to find the right match. So looking back, although it was really tough. I did find the right match, right? First, my first job was a perfect place. Because the administrators believed in me and the teachers were believing in me, and ultimately, the kids and the parents that I worked with, believe that me so worked out well.
And why like, why teaching though? Like what what was like you knew you wanted to be a teacher, but like, What drew you to teaching?
Yeah, I think growing up, I was always treated so differently. And people didn't believe in me. People didn't believe in me, because of the funny faces and the funny noises that I made every single day. But what but I was out there, and I wanted to show them all that, that that I could be a successful year student, I could be a successful teacher, I could be a successful human being. And so I was I was, I don't know, I guess I was always up against the odds. And and I, I don't know, I guess kids always treated me. Well, like as I got older, I would volunteer with with kids. And I would, I would help out and in different situations or in different classrooms. And I always felt like kids understood me once I explained it to him once I educated them about Tourette. So it wasn't a problem. So I knew that this would be a good place for me to work in the education field. Because here we are teaching kids all day long about reading and writing and socializing, math and science. Have kids learn and they get better because of it? Well, why not just educated about Tourette's and then we move on? And so it worked for me, and I knew that was the right fit.
Yeah, so, um, just my personal experience, I think that we've talked about this, you know, since I never had any experience with having any sort of family member or friends with threats, and you being the only person that I've, you know, interacted with. I, you know, I was just curious, like, how is this how is this going to work, you know, in at school, is it going to be distracting and stuff like that? And what I think a light bulb went on for me, especially because you know, that I was a teacher for students with autism. Right. And so sometimes might have students you make noises, you know, and it's like involuntary right? it and the light light bulb went on for me because it was like, well, if, if we as a school can just get over the noises with Mr. Cohen, like, maybe everyone else can kind of get over some of the things that might, you know, our students are having to deal with. You know,
I would agree. I mean, I want to be that role model, you know, I want to be that person where people say he's different, but, but he can still do it. And then down the road, they don't even talk about the threats anymore, because they get to know me, you know, really for who I am on the inside and out what I'm all about on the outside. So yeah, if you if you could take that same type of thought, where if the community can get used to Brad as an adult, and we should look past his differences, also. And I have, I want to be that role model, I want to be that person to help stimulate that conversation, because I think it's really important. You know, our education has come a long way. We're still out there. We got a ways to go. But I think, you know, having having, you know, that type of diversity in the classrooms and in the schools really goes a long way. Yeah.
So, when I was at the school with you, and I, something that you did at the beginning of the year was you helped, we helped, we had an assembly, and you kind of explained who you were, you know, what your differences were in kind of set the tone for the school year with acceptance and tolerance and diversity. And so I'm wondering, could you explain, like, when did that start? And what is like, what is that? What's your thought process through that? Yeah.
So it goes back to when I was in seventh grade. My principal asked me if I would be interested in educating all the students about Tourette's, because no one really knew what was going on. They just knew I was this kid that made noises. And I was getting in trouble all the time. But they didn't really know why. So I said, you know, what's, what's the worst thing that can happen? I would, I would lose my friends. I didn't have any friends. So I decided, well, let's get up there to educate everyone about Tourette's. And so the two of us got up there. And we told them what Tourette's was. And we explained it to them. And we wanted them to feel comfortable about it. And we told them at the end, if you have any questions that you have, and you want to learn more about Tourette's just come up and ask, I'm really open and honest about it. And, and after that, my life changed. I remember after I did that interview, or after I did that conversation with the school, when I went to sit down all the students gave me a round of applause. They gave me a standing ovation. And I realized that they just wanted to know why I was making the noises. So then what happened was the next year, we did it again. And then the next year after that, well, I went to high school. And I couldn't really get it from the whole high school and educated on but what I did was before each class, I got up and I educated all the kids in my class about threats. So if I had seven classes, I did that seven times a semester. And what I realized is that the more I did that the more people understood me, and just just understood what I was all about. And they were able to appreciate me for who I was, and not just the threats. And then I went on to college, I did the same thing. And then when I started becoming a teacher, I would educate my my class about it. And then other teachers would invite me into their class to educate their students about Tourette syndrome. And I would do it and then when I became an administrator, I was like, Well, I still need to educate all these students. So why not do it the begin of the year, and I didn't want big swoop. And I think that I what I learned and what I've known, and that's why I'm in education is that education is a powerful tool, you know, when we use it the right way, it can really make a difference. So it doesn't really have to have it for the academics but also gonna happen for individuals needs, and it worked for me.
So you do a lot of speaking and like outside of law school. Yes, I
do speak. Right. So
what are some of the topics that you speak on?
I think my my biggest topic that I speak on is I just share my story. My job is to inspire other educators, or people that are in different groups, and organizations or companies, my job is to inspire them. And number one, remind them about the difference that they make. And number two, remind them that just because people are different, that we should be giving everyone a chance because ultimately we can all reap the benefits much like my principal was able to reap the benefits when I became a teacher at their school. I tried to share my passions in life and share how we need to keep a positive attitude. And when we keep that positive attitude, it goes a long way. I mean, in my life, I could have had a negative attitude so many different times. But I think at a young age, I realized that just going around the negative attitude wasn't going to get me anywhere. And my mom always instilled in me that keep that positive attitude. Now We'll help you get over the hump to be successful in life. And so that's what I did. Again, I have bad days, but I try to wake up each day and get that positive attitude and move forward. Because that's, that's my survival mode for me. And then it's I try to teach people about perseverance, not giving up. And then if there is like an educator to not give up on their students, much like people did give up on me. And I think that when when people see a true life example and have a real story to be to learn about, they can go back to their own communities and and think about my story to help them make a difference in the community that they're with.
So I had a question there about highlights of your career. And so we're sitting at Brad's table and right to his right, is a picture of Brad with Oprah. You know, so I would assume that would be a highlight
that was definitely a highlight. That was definitely a highlight. So I mean, so I wrote a book called front of the class, how Tourette Syndrome made me the teacher I'd never had. And when the book came out, we sent it out to we've said press releases and got the word out, try to get media to back it up. And we sent once Oprah and her crew. And months later, she reached out to me, and wanted to have me on her show about beating the odds. And so Oprah invited me up to Chicago, and I was on her show. And it was awesome. It was a great opportunity to share my story, inspire other people around the country, but also I got a chance to meet Oprah.
And, and so the book eventually became a movie Christ. And so tell us about that.
So after I was on Oprah, um, you know, we're again out about my story. And I did some speaking engagements. And while I was on one of my speaking engagements, a gentleman was with me and said, you have an incredible story, Brad, one of the things I do is I pitch people's stories to movie producers to turn into real life movies, would you be interested in as I said, Sure. And so a couple months later, we learned that Hallmark Hall of Fame, wanted to do a made for TV movie about my life. And so they, um, they film, they fell in the movie, and the movie came out in December of 2008. And it was, it was on CBS, millions of people saw it. And, you know, it's so replayed today, and a lot of people watch it. And it's just, it was a great movie. It was about 90% True. And that's actually pretty good. That's really good. That's not that wasn't true. It was like the timeline of events. They put everything like in my first year of teaching, and that's not really how it happened. But for the sake of a movie, it was fine. And, well, you know, lots of people watch it, and really aspired like, like families that have kids with disabilities, you know, watch that movie and say, you know, what, if if Brad can do it, then my kid could do it, too. And that was my goal. Like, I just wanted to share my story and make a difference. So I knew I was making a difference at my school, as a teacher, and then as a school as a principal, assistant principal. And then now I knew I can make a difference across the whole country and the whole world, because people can see my movie. Yeah. And it's it's been remade, it was remade, it was remade in Bollywood. And it was made in India. And it was actually a big screen movie. It was in the movie theaters. And it was called hitch geek, which means hiccup in Hindi. And so they, they, they took some creative liberties. So the front of the class was like, 90%. Sure, while the hitch he was about 25%, true, but the premise was the same. And they they share my story, again, about this teacher that was making a difference in the lives of kids. And despite his challenges with threats, he overcame it and showed others that they can overcome and to that,
that is fantasy. It was a fun experience. Yeah, that's fantastic. So I have to bring this up, because I know this about you. A little known or maybe a well known fact that you were part of the Braves organization. I was
I was part of the Atlanta Braves organization. I was the mascot for the Atlanta Braves. So at the time, his name was Homer. It was a baseball head with a baseball uniform. And I ran around turf field and acted crazy. And I had fun with the kids and the fans and routed out the Braves. So that was a fun summer job for me to do. It's a great you know your teacher throughout the year. What do you do in the summer? Hey, why don't you go be a mascot? Love baseball love kids. So let's go have some fun.
That's right, but your heart belongs to the T the Cardinals.
I grew up in St. Louis. So Cardinals come first. And then the Braves. Yeah,
I feel Yeah. I feel Yeah. I'm a Dodger fan first always. Okay.
You got the home team here. So
that's right. That's right. So the majority of our listeners are educators, what do you want educators to know, about Tourette's, because maybe they've never had a student with Tourette's in their class. And all of a sudden, it happens, you know, the special education supervisor is like, well, guess what this is happening? And they're, they just don't know what to expect. So how would you prepare an educator for that?
Yeah, I think the number one thing yeah, do is once you get to Kim a trust, you gotta go out there, learn a little bit about it, you know, do a read up on it, you know, like, like, you read a book like mine, or you just take the information off of the internet, you're just trying to learn as much as you can. And then, you know, we've talked about preconceived notions before, you know, a lot of people think that that Tourette's is a behavior problem, it's not, you got to look past that. Many kids with Tourette's have high cognitive ability levels. So they have the intelligence, it's just that their, their, their tics that they have, they're making noises to twitch in their eyes or jerking their necks while while they're yelling outwards. It causes a lot of interference with the learning that is supposed to take place not only for the kid himself, but the teachers trying to teach the kids interrupting the rest of the kids. So there's a lot going on there. So I would say just remember, this isn't this not a behavior problem. It's a neurological disorder. So that would be my first thing. The second thing is, and this is what most teachers do, this is why we do what we do is you gotta believe in a kid, you know, you got to be that one teacher that is gonna believe in that kid when nobody else will. My challenge to educators is to step up and be that that that teacher, that will give that kid a chance, despite the challenges that other teachers may have had, I'd like for them to step up and do the best that they can do for that kid. Give that kid opportunities, really get in there, make sure they have a good IEP, so that so that we're setting that kid up for success, communicate with the kid, like don't only talk to the parent, but also talk to the kid and ask the kid what are their needs? Or what are they? What do they need to make successful situation in the school? You know, we're talking about some kids are in elementary school, they could still articulate what they need, or are you talking about a kid in high school that really has already lived several years through education and know what they need? You know, for me, like reading was always difficult. Like when I started reading, my tics act up more, I Twitch more, it's hard to concentrate. So I needed to find the atmosphere where I can actually concentrate and read. And so you got to you got to ask the kid what was best for them. I know for me, like, when I was growing up, there were there are books on tape that I was able to listen to. And so why not let a book on tape or a podcast or a CD or whatever, or even letting the kid watch the movie. First, I know that most teachers frown upon that. But I remember I read a book in high school and I watched the movie first. And then I was able to read the book. And I was able to read it so much easier, because I kind of knew what was coming up. It made it made it so much easier for me. I mean, so you have to remember that there's so many challenges that kids with Tourette's have tried to take those barriers away so that they can have a successful education on ball. Tech math was really difficult for me growing up. So I needed, you know, a lot of eye candy, like a cheat sheet that had the formulas and the the equations I guess saw in front of me, so I could think go do the math. For me, like even even multiplication was hard at first. So they gave me like a multiplication chart where I could go when I was learning like multiple digit multiplication, I would get stuck. But once I started using multiplication chart, I started to get better at math. And then I eventually learned my math, multiplication facts. So I think you got to ask the kid what's best for them, and then try to give them a chance. So I think that that's, I think that's important. And then ultimately, you know, as educators, we're here to fulfill dreams, like you know, kids aspire to be different things. And don't be so quick to shoot them down with what their dreams may be. People plenty people told me I couldn't be a teacher, because I had threats and I went out there and I proved them all wrong. We have to remember not not all kids have the same mentality as I did. I mean, so I was fortunate to break through the OSI while other people you know, once they're shot down too many times they just give up and sometimes they drop out of school and that's not always fair to them.
I wanted to touch on what you said about behavior and about it. It not being one and it The route the route being in neurological is you've got, you've talked to before about the feeling like the way that you're feeling about a certain place or a person and feeling, you know, safe or whether or not something is difficult or easy. That that affecting the frequency and the intensity of your vocal tics or your your movement tics, right? Yep. Yeah. So
yeah, so people with Tourette's, like, for me, I made lots of noises. So, you know, when I go to the library, when he's supposed to be the library, so as to be quiet. So what happens to me, I start making noises. When I go to a movie theater, well, I tried to go to a movie, but the first thing they tell you is, make sure you're quiet. And so my tics act up. And then as the movie goes on, I get more comfortable, my tics will not happen as much. But yeah, when I put myself in situations from I have more nervous, or I'm under stress, or I'm an uncomfortable environment, my tics are going to happen a lot more. So the same is true in education. You know, if I noticed the tests, that's going to happen, most kids are nervous when they have a test. They just, they don't show it. Maybe they have sweaty palms, or maybe they, they, they're tapping their leg a lot. But for me, I'm just making noises. So yeah, when I'm nervous, everyone knows I'm nervous. When I'm under stress, everyone knows I'm under stress. So I try to get as relaxed as I can for different situations so that I can kind of live life like everybody else.
Yeah, yeah. There's a particular kind of Tourette's remember the name of it. But I think it's the one where you have people who say, really inappropriate things or do inappropriate things.
It's called Corporate laelia. Cool. Yeah. Well, yes,
thank you, knowing that some educators are like they have, maybe they see that or experience that with the learner, right? But they they are, what their assumption is, even though they know that Tourette's is not behavioral. Right? And they know it's a neurological disorder. They're like, but there's something like, they know, this learner knows what they're doing. This learner knows the words that they're saying or not the right things sort of, or, you know, maybe there's some movements there, then that learners shouldn't be doing. So. Like, if you were advising an educator, that maybe he's running into this issue, like, how would you how would you address that?
So another one of the biggest misconceptions is that everyone would tread says bad words. So only about 5% of the of the tech community has corporate laelia. So fortunate for me, I don't say bad words, or at least I can't blame it on threats. But I don't have the corporate laelia. But going back to like, even the idea of what why, why do they say bad words? Like why do they say the F word and the B word, but they don't say cat or dog? So it kind of goes back to what I said before. When I go to a movie theater, well, what are you supposed to be? So let's Be quiet. What do I do I make noises. It's the same premise. In this person's mind, they have to say a word. Why don't they say cat because that's appropriate. If you say the F word is inappropriate, so Tourettes is kind of telling you to do what you're not supposed to do. So that that's how it kind of happens. There are people that have Tourette's is called echolalia, which is the repeating of words. So maybe they hear someone say the word dog and the dog and Stuckey are worried that dog dog dog dog that's not corporate lately. So unfortunately, the corporal laelia, is you're saying words that are inappropriate. And yes, the person knows is inappropriate. But because of Tourettes being neurological, they can't help it. They have to say this word. And they have to say it in a in a way that's not going to be appropriate for our society.
Yeah. Any other tips for how educators can support learners?
Again, I think it goes back to always talking to the kid talking to the person about what their needs are. Sometimes educators think that they know what's best for kids, but they never asked the kid what they want. And sometimes the kicking can articulate to you what they need in order to be successful. And so talk to the kid like build a relationship. I mean, part of education is building relationships with kids. You want the kid to trust you as a teacher. So make sure that you have those convert those deep conversations with the kid and if you need to bring in a concert you need to bring in the parents to have these conversations, go ahead and do so. But I think that that will help create a better environment for the kid during their educational days.
Who or what has made the biggest difference in Your Life?
Question. So, while while I would say my mom played a huge role, like in growing up, she made sure that I stay positive. I remember going to a trade center support group meeting, and everyone was negative there. And I remember leaving, telling my mom, I don't want to be one of those people, I don't want to be so negative about threats, like I don't want to live my life in that manner. And it she always encouraged me to go out there and stay positive and do the best that I could. So my mom, I'd say, my principal and middle school who got up and educated everyone about Tourette's, that was a that was a big deal at the time. And so that really, that really changed my life. I mean, it was really at that time, you know, seventh grade, that I realized what I want to do for the rest of my life, I want to be a teacher, I realized the power of education. So he played a huge role. And then I'd say the principal who hired me, the principal and assistant principal to actually hire me, for my first job after 25 interviews, he, they were the ones that that said, let's give Brad a chance. And the conversation of the principal and assistant principal hat is, you know, we have a lot of special needs kids in our school. And well, if we're going to walk the walk that we need, if we're, we're going to, we're going to talk to talk, we need to walk the walk. And that was what he felt that if if we're going to say all these, these kids could do all these things. So we need to give Brad a chance. And so I would say those three people with all the people that really stand out the most for me, as far as really making a difference in my life.
How would you encourage families if they have a wild child to transmit really a disability?
Well, I'm gonna say it again. But I think you have to be upfront and honest. I mean, so many times families learn about their kid as a disability, and they're so scared to talk about it than anybody else, because they don't want the kid to be labeled. Well, the reality is your kids already labeled. So now you need a support systems in place. So you know, someone, someone's going to educate these other people about your kids condition, get ahead of it, like go ahead, and you'd be the one, like, I want you to be the voice. And so you decide what you want other people to know, and educate people so that they can do what's best for your kids. So that would be the first thing is, is not only educating people, but accepting it. Once you accept it, it goes a long way. You know, I tell people all the time, I never, I never chose to have Tourette syndrome. It wasn't my choice, but I did choose to accept it. And once I accepted it, I think I was able to thrive in life. So I think that that's important. I think that you have that conversation with your with your with your relatives, and you make sure grandparents understand what's going on, and cousins and aunts and uncles so that it makes it easier for family functions when when the kid that has a disability or has challenges in life, they can succeed. The other thing I would say is, is don't always focus on the negative don't always focus on the kids disability. Let's focus on the kids strengths. Every kid has strengths. And as a parent, it's your job to help your kid recognize what their strengths are. And then once they recognize what they are, go out there and do it. So if your kid is really good at sports, let him go out there play soccer or baseball, whatever the sport is, or be a gymnast. If they're really good at reading, then go out there and get really good books and get part of become part of reading reading clubs and book clubs, to find out what your kid is good at, and then surround them by that so that they can enjoy. Because what happens is for kids that have challenges a life like disabilities, they Well, they're gonna have challenges. And so when they have those challenges, and and they feel like they're a failure on they're not able to do something, what you want them to do is look back and say, Okay, you're not good at this, and you're not doing well now. But you are good at this, because they have these strengths that they're good at. And so I think we need to also focus on kids strengths, and not just their weaknesses. And I think that goes a long way. Because that builds up self confidence in those kids, and they and they they can go out there and shine when when they're given the opportunity to do so.
Thank you so much for being on the think music podcast.
It's an honor to be here. Cheers.
That chime means it's free time. This week we are going way back into the public domain archives. And depending on when you're listening to this episode, it's probably sometime during the holiday season and one song that always reminds me of the holidays, but isn't necessarily a holiday song is pennies from heaven. It's an absolute classic. The music is by Arthur Johnston and lyrics by Johnny Burke. It was first introduced in the 1936 film of the same name, where it was performed by Bing Crosby. The song is very popular. It's an enduring standard recorded by lots of different artists over the years, I love this one, especially the lyrics. The song uses the metaphor of finding pennies from heaven as a symbol of unexpected good fortune or happiness. The basic idea is that even in difficult times, there's hope for better things to come. And so as we close out this episode, let's hold on to hope, hope for a more inclusive feature. Here is pennies from heaven, performed by Louis Armstrong, Bing Crosby, Francis Langford accompanied by Jimmy Dorsey and his orchestra
every time it rains pennies from Heaven dot you know each cloud contains pennies from heaven. You find your fortune falling all over town. This is upside down. trade them package of sunshine in flower. If you want the things you love, you must have shower. So when you hear it, don't run under a tree. They'll be banished from heaven for you.
For more information about inclusive education or to learn how you can partner with MCIE on school transformation or professional learning opportunities, visit MCIE.org Love thinking cluesive Here are a few ways to let us know rate us on Spotify. Or leave us a review on Apple podcasts becoming a patron like these fine people. thank you to Aaron P Jared T Joyner a Kathy B Mark C Gabi M and Kathleen T. for your continued support a think inclusive think inclusive is written, edited, designed, mixed and mastered by me to Vegas. Original Music by miles credit additional music from melody thanks for your time and attention and remember inclusion always works
oh when you hear it under don't run under three pennies from heaven or you
