Classroom to Copy #9: Writing the Next Chapter of Teaching Through Copy with Elizabeth Salisbury
5:08PM May 25, +0000
Speakers:
Tania Yeo
Bitsy
Keywords:
copywriting
teachers
realise
writing
teaching
feel
year
programme
article
copywriters
skills
months
school
give
students
burnout
parallel
taught
copy
find
Record. Hi everyone. Welcome back to another episode of classroom to Coffee with Tanya and I have a lovely guest with me today, Betsy Salisbury and she's also a former teacher a reading and writing specialist, right? And the average teacher so I'm gonna let her introduce herself like, you know what your background was in teaching. I know you've taught all over the world also, I looked up your LinkedIn and you know, sounds like a really interesting story there and you know, what is it that you currently do at generational schools generation Schools Network? Now?
Thanks, Tania for having me this was a pleasure. So I am one of those people who did like a traditional four year college for teaching programme. I took like a gap year but I started college when I was 19 and finished in 2013 with an elementary ed degree so that was my undergrad. I did one year of teaching with Elementary Ed and I thought, you know, maybe this full classroom thing isn't for me, I'm going to specialise. And I became a I went back to school to get a master's in English language education. And that was inspired by taking a semester abroad to volunteer teach English in Chile. So I did that. It motivated me to stay in teaching. I went back and got that master's. And then just with an interesting turn of events in life, I ended up back in an elementary classroom setting, not teaching English Exactly. But kind of just I was a reading and writing specialists like you said, so I've taught fourth grade for four years in that position. And that was the majority of my teaching time was fourth grade. The last year I taught was this this 2122 school year and I taught internationally, which was definitely a dream and I taught in Colombia for that school year. During that school year, though, was also kind of my unravelling of teaching and, and starting to think about what else is out there. And currently, I know we'll talk about the journey, but currently I work for a nonprofit. It's actually an educational nonprofit, which was a good transition for me. And it's called Generation Schools Network. It's based in Denver, Colorado, and I am their communications and website manager. So that's actually, as you might guess, like nonprofits you kind of do you wear all the hats so I write their emails, I create email journeys. I also do newsletters. I also do some promotional video work. They kind of whatever they asked me to do. I do it. I do a lot of event planning. So across the board, but I would say like writing and communication is the main thing that I do.
For them. And are these also so when you say like newsletters and promotional stuff, is it like for to market the this organisation?
Yeah, so we have a bunch of different initiatives that we do, and a few different key areas. One of them is college and career readiness. So we do a lot of programming across the state and a lot in rural Colorado, but also in the front range where we just give young people opportunities to interact with local businesses to do internships, to do job fairs, that kind of thing. So when we have an event coming up, I'll be the person who writes the emails, promoting the event, but also creating the flyer for the event. So I do some graphic design for them too. And then I'll sometimes depending on the like capacity needed, I'll show up at the event and kind of run things from like a PR standpoint. So make sure we're getting good pictures, make sure we have like good interviews with the students stuff like that.
Wow. So yeah, that's wearing a lot of hats. Like it is how, how's it feel now, you know, in this role, compared to, like a year, it's been less than a year, right that you've left teaching.
Yeah, it's been you know, coming up on a year, so it was June of 2022 that I left the classroom so yeah, coming up on a year, which is crazy. It took it took a good amount of time to find a job which I know we'll talk about, but being in this role now I've been in it for almost four months. And it's it's interesting how like, it can be a stressful day at work, meaning like there's tonnes of deadlines and everyone's asking for things last minute, but it just doesn't compare to the stress that I felt as a teacher. It doesn't that impair because I do know that at the end of the day, everyone respects my time. And when it's the end of the workday, it's the end of the workday, and there's like minor exceptions. But yeah, my ability to like turn off my work brain is so much better than it was when I was teaching.
Oh, when that moment when you said no matter how much stress you're facing, you know in your current workdays, nothing compared to to teaching where it just hit so hard. It resonated so much because I don't know what it is. I think the way like a school environment, you know, the level of like stimulation and the things coming at you from every direction. It's a unique experience to say the least. Right?
I know. It is unique to say the least I think it's like you can't I try to get other people to think about teaching like this. Every day you have to give presentations to a group of people like if people have a business job they might understand a little bit better. Like all you do all day is like get up in front of people and present and make sure that they're meeting their individualised learning goals and also making sure that their social emotional like health is doing okay. It people can't even really imagine it and I think I think teachers are they're just incredible people they have this amazing skill set that they don't realise they have.
Yeah, yeah. And to get into that. So I want to to, to circle back a bit about like the stress you know, you know, did you ever experienced burnout and you know, a lot of I know, I was burnt out when I left and I felt as if I had to find the next thing immediately. I put that pressure on myself. You know, what was your experience with stress? And if you had it, you know, burnout.
Yeah, she is awesome. I think my burnout lasted for like three years. I was kind of feeling that way. And ironically, the school I taught at for most of my life, like I was mentioning that reading specialists role I had literacy specialist role. I did three years at a school in Denver and that role and surprisingly like the the environment at that school was actually quite healthy. I had great coworkers. We were actually like holding it down pretty well. But despite that, I still ended up just working 5060 hour work weeks and I had a really awesome coach but it was like clockwork like every two months, we would get together for like regular weekly meeting, and I would just be in tears pain, like, I need to figure out a way to make this workload more manageable or I'm not going to be able to keep doing it. And she would give you know, she worked with me and tried to give me tips but it wouldn't be like that for years. I was just like I was just managing it somehow. But feeling that constantly that like this is a lot. This is a lot. I'm not getting paid enough for this kind of feeling. I can't ever turn it off. Like on Sundays I would put in hours on evenings I would put in hours and so that burnout was real and I you know, I think I stuck it out because I wanted to support my team. And my team was super encouraging than you know, I just thought I thought I had the best possible scenario. As the teacher like a lot of people leave because the environment is toxic. I didn't have that so I was just like, well, this is the best it's gonna get I can't go anywhere else. Teachers are very isolated. You don't even know what's happening in the other like hallway, let alone what's happening. At any other school in the district. Like you've no idea. So I felt like a little stuck. I was like, kind of like hey, this is the best I can do this the best case scenario and I don't have another plan so I'm even though I'm like, drowning all the time. I'm gonna stick it out.
So what was I know that you heard about a teacher who turned into a cop who became a copywriter on a different podcast, right? Is that was that moment you realised or was it something else that that triggered that
yeah, that's a good question. Like the final straw essentially. I so like I said, I was teaching abroad and I think I had this impression that because that was my dream to teach abroad that that was gonna solve something and it was also a private school. And I also thought that that was gonna solve something for me in terms of the workload, but it was kind of the opposite. I had a just a really stressful intense experience at that. School. And I think I think the veil was like pulled from my eyes that it's not about necessarily finding a different school, although I think that can work for some people. I think teachers end up switching grades or schools and like finding something that works better. But it was it I think it for me, it just felt like it's always going to be this hard. It's always going to Well, it's always going to be this much work. I would meet teachers who had been in the game for like 1520 years, who were still working 50 hours a week. And so I didn't really have a model to look to the teachers who I thought were incredible teachers were working their butts off, and they were in their 40s and 50s. And they were still you know, I didn't see I didn't have a model of like, oh, you work hard, and then it gets easier. So I think I finally had to say, You know what, this? I'm good at this, but I could be good at something else too.
Yeah, yeah. That's like the number one thing you mentioned in the articles. So for anyone listening Bootsy wrote some really awesome articles about like the hard and soft skills that teachers can leverage to become copywriters. And you mentioned the number one thing that most teachers say is the only thing I know how to do is teach Right, right when teaching itself is actually a multitude of distinct skills, right? Just teaching is just a vocation. There are so many of those skills and I can't wait to get into that discussion later. I want to spoil the article for people who are listening. But you know, we get so someone else in copy chief mentioned that you get this tunnel vision about what you can actually accomplish as a person. And so too, I would just want to jump back to you know, so this like period of burnout. What would you say to like a transitioning teacher who is facing that right now? Because, you know, like you said, you know, it's so important to have models to look to I didn't have a model, a lot of teachers who leave things in Singapore, they seem to just jump straight into the next thing. And so for me, I had that expectation of myself. Like, what would you say to a transition teacher who's going through burnout and things they have to find the next thing?
Yeah, I mean, if you're, if you're listening to this, and you're a teacher, and you're experiencing burnout, and you're feeling like hey, the school year just finished, at least if you're on like the United States. Schedule. You just finished your your school year and you're thinking I'm going to do this again next year, if that feels completely overwhelming to you. Start what helps me was to start realising what else is out there because as a teacher, you you just don't really have time. I literally took a sick day so that I could explore other careers. Because you It's so stressful, right? Just to just to leave your post as a teacher. I took a sick day so I could explore other jobs. And you know, the summer is a great time to actually have time to look at what else is out there. So I would say if you're feeling that way, the podcast that I found super helpful. It's called the teacher Career Coach podcast. I was actually like listening to those episodes on my way. to school every day, which is a little that says something. I would listen on the way to school and I would listen on the weekends. And it just opened my eyes up to the different types of careers that are out there that that podcast and I'm sure there's other resources, give you this bigger view of the kinds of things a teacher can do, and I just didn't have that. I just, I was just in it. I was in it to win it. You know, I was just teaching and I the you have to give yourself the time to explore other options. So definitely login and find some resources and and just explore the career paths that are open to teachers because there are many, many, many career paths you could do.
Yeah, it doesn't even have to be copywriting. Right. Just so many different options. I remember when I left I just froze up and just, I mean, I was an art teacher so I just made art every day. I knew it wasn't going to go into like, I wasn't going to become a full time artist. But I froze you know, and like you said about taking that time especially now that summer to to step away and to also recover like the I think like back then I was berating myself or like oh look at you, you're just a slacker now. Just drawing on your iPad. But recovering, right? I was resting because burnout is also physical. Yes. Did you manage to find that time for yourself to like the physical break besides you know, stepping aside mentally from teaching
Oh, yeah, that's a good question. I I came back from Colombia. The beginning of July. And I think there was like about a month there where I was just back. I you know, I didn't really do anything in that first month. To be honest, I think I totally disconnected. And then then I spent a week with my family in Minnesota. And for me, that's a really good way to reset is to check in with my family and see how they're doing and remind myself that, you know, I'm a human too. I'm not just a worker. So I had that time but when I came back, visiting my family, then it really setting that I didn't I needed a plan. I what I did to bridge the gap because I had already decided at that point that I wanted to do copywriting that that decision was made before the school year ended. And so I knew I wanted to do that but I wasn't sure how. And so I started to I had to make that plan. And the plan I came up with was to nanny or babysit on the side part time which is something that any teacher can do. If you have to remind yourself that that is temporary but it's like any any teacher has the ability to like be an in demand babysitter or nanny, so I ended up doing that 25 hours a week and then with the rest of my time. I did self studying. I joined copy chief. I purchased a couple of other smaller like online programmes and I studied and I studied so that's it was a challenge and I know not everyone can like lower their income like that like I did for I did it for like six months. But if you can and you can just downsize your life a little bit for the time being, you'll actually find that that simplification of things, and is is going to allow you to have that time and that's what's going to pay off. Because like you said there's so much stress especially with money to like do something else immediately. But that was that was my solution.
i I wish we were talking in person because I would high five you I did the exact same thing. I mean for me it wasn't baby. It was living in Tbilisi was already downsizing like it's easy to live cheaply here and then teaching English online on the side to like kids in Singapore. Yeah, I think I just have to take on like three students and I could spend the rest of my time on copywriting. So I think because you know, there are some there are some teachers I have interviewed who they managed to study copywriting while teaching. Which I personally know I couldn't have done like not me and at the same time, they were also working less hours than their usual while while teaching so like to anyone who's listening and things like there's only one way to get into this or that you have to start while you're still teaching like there's so many paths into it. It really depends on your circumstances and what you're comfortable with like Betsy said right with with downsizing, giving yourself that financial off ramp so that you can feel financially secure to make that move into a new career.
It's yeah, it's it's such a difficult transition really, it's like it's monumental. I won't say it's always going to be difficult but it's it's big and to try to make that jump without some struggle. In the middle or some sort of sacrifice. I want people to think that to not to not try to do it without any sacrifice. You know, some people might want just like a smooth transition into something else. And if that happens for you, that's great. And it probably you know it might happen because you had a connection or something like that. But if you don't have those connections yet. I think that was a big part. For me. It was like all my friends or teachers. Yeah, and I don't I don't know. At least that's what I thought I actually discovered that my network was way more diverse than that. I just what hadn't tapped into it at all. And so it just it takes some sacrifice to make that transition and just be ready for that.
Yeah, yeah. I think that's an interesting thing that you mentioned about your network. What do you realise? What made you realise about you know, how much bigger it actually was? And is it somehow tied to what you're doing now? Is that how you found your current role?
Yes, actually, I So, like I said, I think there was about six months where I was nannying and trying to learn a new skill, trying to learn copywriting and there was actually a moment within that six months I think this goes without saying but there was like a break down moment. That maybe we all have, yes. That I definitely had, like right around I think I want to say was around five months because I kind of told myself, Oh, I'm gonna give myself six months to figure this out. And I told my I have a husband as well and I hadn't tell him that like, Hey, I'm gonna give myself six months after six months, you know, we'll read negotiate or like all open up my options to other things, but I really think I can do this. But then right around five months, nothing. There was no clear like job coming my way. And I totally had a break down. And it was over this I just thought okay, if it's not happening yet, I've got you know, this was a totally self self induced timeline right deadline. I put it on myself, which I didn't have to do. But I started to get stressed about it. And I thought this solution might be paying for a like $3,000 coaching copywriting coaching programme, even though I totally didn't have the money, but I was like, I got one month to figure this out. Quote, unquote, and I like I'm going to do this. I'm going to apply this programme because what I'm doing so far isn't working, blah, blah, blah. In the end, I just couldn't do it. I couldn't like hit pay. And then I had the breakdown because I was like, what what am I going to do now? I can't pay for this programme. I'm not going to do that. But like, but now what? And Tanya I had like 48 hours I think of just like, just like totally having a pity party and just questioning everything. Yeah. And then and then I just decided that I can't stop. I have to keep going with this path and six months is whatever I made that up, you know, so but I need to start doing something different. So that is the moment when I said, You know what I haven't been doing I have not been like mining my network. I think I've been afraid to do it because then it makes it more real versus like sitting on my computer and studying by myself. Yeah. Networking means you're letting the whole world know that you're trying to become a copywriter and that you're actively doing it and so it's official.
It's official.
Exactly. And so I had the breakdown and then I had the moment of like, I have to keep going and I have to make it official and so that is when I did two things. I started reaching out to my friends on LinkedIn who had anything to do with advertising or marketing. But definitely specifically copywriting so I just started asking people to talk with me I started actively networking and then to on copy chief. I started finding copywriters, specifically email copywriters were in the game and I started asking them if I could write articles about them and that those two things like gave me new energy, and they were both networking things. And so it was just like doubling down on that commitment. But it was really hard to do that. You know, but once you do it, you're on the path and like you said, you made it official, and I think within a month I got this job and it was through a connection through a friend of mine who does marketing for a real estate agency, which I didn't even know that she did. She's been my friend for years. It's kind of embarrassing. And I was I know you worked for a real estate company but didn't realise you were the head of the marketing department. Like tell me who you know, and she told me someone she knew. And that's how I got this job. So I actually did meet my six month deadline, but I had the breakdown first.
Wow. Yeah, there's and then the way you told her that's just a really fantastic journey. And again, like so many high fives I have my breakdown are on the same time. I also you know, I think I was I was telling my mentors from so in copy chief we have the world of financial copywriting club and then Joshua Lee Henry, for the listeners. You know, he's like, kind of like my mentor. I was like, This is it. The the industry is going through layoffs. No one's going to ever hire me. This is the end of my career. And he was like, No, this is the time you put yourself out there and just keep doing your outreach and you know, like, like, kind of like posting articles on LinkedIn and then like, like, within a few weeks, there are people like hey, do you want to write stuff for us? I think community and network is such a missing piece. In one of the last interviews I did Charlotte she said, you know, teachers like to feel like they they've got everything. They can do everything on their own. They're the authority on how something is done. So sometimes it can be hard for us to like, admit, actually we don't know and we need our people, right. Like, I'm
sure Charlotte she has 100% Right. That is the truth. Like we think we think it all falls on our shoulders because often it does when you're teaching. Yeah. And so it is a different mindset to to reach out. Definitely,
yeah. So what what made you feel that you weren't hitting your, your goal, like your six month goal, you know, like, was it reaching out to clients or did you were you just telling yourself that you're not ready like what what made you feel that you because, you know, your I read your writing, it's, it's fantastic, you know, but what was like the benchmark you set for yourself, like finding your first client or something?
I mean, like in terms of feeling successful?
Yeah. Because it's different for different copywriters, too.
Yeah, that's a really good question. I think I was I was definitely putting the job, like the j ob as the as the deadline, you know, and I think I thought it was just gonna be me working hard and then the job comes just like nothing in between. Um, which was where my mindset had to change was that like, there's phases to it, and the job might the job as part of it, or that is like a, a goal to have. But there were other goals that I wasn't paying attention to because it just felt like oh, any other goal is really not like nothing's really an accomplishment until you get the job. Oh, okay. You know, and that was a hard mindset to like, try to shift. I think. hosting my first article was a pretty awesome milestone that I should have celebrated more and like that was like a big deal to start publishing stuff. So getting that medium account and then putting articles out there was was a huge goal. And I think that gave me then I started getting feedback, which is the thing that we also try to avoid which is funny because it's the only thing that helps us grow. And we try to avoid it for as long as possible until we realise we can't get anywhere without it. So I start publishing people started giving me feedback. And now I realise like, Okay, I'm onto something.
Yeah, so yeah. Yeah. That was the number one reason I joined copy chief, because, you know, I was in a free community and they're like, don't don't pay for courses. Everything You Need to Know You can learn for free. That is true. But then you, you know, when it comes to actually knowing how your writing is doing it without the the statistics you know, from writing emails, you don't know your open rates, your click through rates, all you have is really like someone else's feedback on your writing. Yeah, and and like you said, the first time I realised I was onto something I got on a call with with Joshua, and he was like, You need to get hired, like stop writing and your whole and like, start sending samples to people. I wouldn't have known I was so sure I was gonna get on the call and he was gonna like, this is terrible, and you're wasting my time, but we don't know when we're just like, in our little writer's cave, and like, Oh, I'm gonna keep all this copy to myself and not let anyone see. Yeah, yeah. Um, gosh, this could go on forever, but we have to talk about your articles and you know, what inspired them. What made you realise all these parallel skills that I can transfer from like teaching? To copywriting?
Yeah, so those like I'll just say this first. I've always been a writer. And I've always like, I've always had journals. I've always kept journals. And I've always used writing as a way to process what's actually happening in my life. So that is what these articles were as well. It was me in the middle of that six, six month timeframe where I was processing like, my own self doubts. So I wrote the articles in a response to myself as like encouragement to myself like wait a second, this you know, in your heart that this isn't true that you're only good at teaching like you know that but let's make it official. Let's, let's write it down. So the first article I wrote in like two hours, I'm not kidding. I like wrote it all at once. And I and I posted it was very fast and then that's when I was like, Okay, I really, I really do know it and inside like, I know the skills that I have. And then for this, the the first article was the skills that make teachers good copywriters, the second article was the soft skills that make teachers good copywriters. That one I decided to go turn to my teaching team, the one I used to work with in Denver. And I asked them what they thought the soft skills were and they gave me so many. You know, teachers are like, Oh, at least the teachers I worked with, they're like, Oh, we're good at this. We're good at that. Like they gave me so many things to go off of. So the second article took a little longer to write because I crowdsource the information and then turned it around, but it was I wrote them as in a response to myself and when I was going through that, like, these are the skills that I really do have. Yeah,
yeah, I I'd love to talk about them both. So in the more of the hard skills, one right, yeah, about project management. Um, data analysis was two more. Come on think
marketing was one of marketing skills. Yeah.
Because we have to market to kids every day. And then
yeah, I think the other one was avatar research. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which my friend who doesn't would not know what that meant. She's like, she read my article. And she's like, Oh, I think I understand what avatar research is now. She was also a former teacher. She's like the way you describe it. And like the teaching context makes perfect sense. Yeah,
um okay. So there was and then the thing that you mentioned about anticipatory sets, right? Yes. As because Okay, so some of our listeners might not be familiar with like copywriting and why we're drawing these parallels, so maybe. I don't want to overwhelm you
go ahead and over.
I am hopping on a call with Joshua. Like at the end of the hour, and so I also want to keep to my promise that this will be like 45 minutes so what would you say is like the biggest parallel let's talk about the hard skills one first, like the biggest parallel between copywriting and teaching.
Yeah. For me, the the first thing that came to my mind, like I said, I wrote that article really fast. And the first one that I think is the strongest parallel is project management. Because teachers, we plan things you know, we have like six, six week units that we cycle through throughout the year. So you're always planning six weeks in advance or further. And you start with what the kids need to know at the end and then you plan everything backwards and you put little like check ins or, you know, many assessments throughout to see if you're on track. That type of a skill. It's it's something that anybody would hire you before. You know, it's a very useful skill and applies to the business world applies to copywriting that applies to many, many things. The second two were kind of together marketing and Avatar research. So teachers are very good at getting their students to hop on board with them. And we know that we if we don't like get our students attention within 10 seconds, 20 seconds, you've kind of ruined the lesson and you're gonna be fighting for their attention and bringing them back the rest of the time. So like we know, we know how to start something strong, and we know how to grab attention in the way that the people in front of us would respond to it. So that is the parallel with copywriting. 100% It's the same thing I think we have like what the average person spends like 10 seconds on a website or like 10 seconds in an email.
Yeah, 10 seconds to before they scroll past your subject line before they even open your email. And read the rest of your copy. I'm a visual thinker, so when I write emails, I actually picture myself in front of a classroom. Yeah, so and just like I get in my my, like my Sherlock brain space and like, you know, when he goes in his mind palace, have you ever watched Sherlock?
I'm not the new one. Okay.
Anyway, just like my own nerd reference, but like getting your private Mind Palace and like, Okay, I'm going to talk to this specific group of people. How would you get their attention and for some reason, even if like it's a bunch of 50 year olds, I still picture them in the classroom. My brain goes yeah, I think that so for the parallels with like, copywriting. You know, for anyone who's listening who hasn't, you know who's just starting out in copywriting. There's just so many. Do you feel that? Do you feel that being? Sorry, let me phrase it slightly differently. How do you think that being a writing a reading and writing specialists especially helped you master the craft better, like the actual act of writing?
So for this one, I would actually say no, because I think the fact that I was a literacy specialist really doesn't. That's not where my my skills my transferable skills actually came from. I think that was mostly teaching essay writing. And sure you do teach students about hooks and things like that and organisation but I think any teacher regardless, like not just high school English teachers, I think a lot of people think, Oh, if I was a high school English teacher than I could get into copywriting easier. I don't think that's the case. I think it's it's the project management skills. It's the it's that sort of getting kids attention. It's using data to make decisions. All teachers do.
So yeah, for sure. I actually had a hard time getting rid of my academic voice because we have to write how our customer would speak and think, right. Yeah, so the academic voice interfered with that because I was like, Wait, nobody talks like that.
Like, wait, I can't use the word fair for Yeah,
or however. Yes.
So it's the things that you don't think would help. That actually help.
Yeah, and I think when I was learning copywriting, what I was surprised about is that most people, like your most successful copywriting is going to be written at a fourth or fifth grade reading level. And I thought, oh my god, well, there's there's a barrier that just fell down like for all the people out there who think Well, I'm not very good at writing or like, my grammar sucks. That is not at all a problem. Like, there's AI for that these days. You need to be able to have empathy which you had with your students, right, you're figuring out how they feel how they're gonna respond. That's really the key when it comes to writing to your audience. So anyone who knows that have empathy with their students can do that for someone else, too.
Yeah, yeah. Go into your mind palace and feel what they're feeling
I'm gonna use that now.
So there was this question that came from from a listener. I think one of the things that stopping her is the guilt of leaving her students behind. Is that something that you know, was part of your journey?
Yes, I think any any teacher is going to feel because you invest so much time in your students getting to know them. Getting to know their families. It can feel it can feel like a very big commitment. And it could feel like breaking a commitment if you leave. But when I when I decided to leave, I did tell all of my students and I told all of the families as well at the end of the year conferences. But I wrote, I this was maybe overkill, but I wrote an individual. I will say the last paragraph was individualised the rest of it was was copied but I gave each student a letter from me personally. I've had a paragraph at the end that was just for them. And it was just kind of explaining like, why I was leaving and and they were, you know, they totally understand they're fourth graders, but they were like, you know, happy for me to go back. To the states and do something else. And that was the route I took. I just felt like, again, I process things through writing. So I was like, I want my students to know they were very special to me, because they were and I want them to know that this isn't about them. Yeah. But they surprise students and families will surprise you. I think a lot of the guilt comes from yourself. It doesn't actually come from anyone else. And if you tell them what's going on in your life, and that you're making a different decision, they're going to very likely they're going to just be happy for you and support you and be sad that they won't get you know, oh, they were like oh my daughter she's gonna be in fourth grade next year. I really wanted her to have you that kind of a thing. And you know, those moments are sad, but they're only sad for like a little bit. Yeah, I know. I really wish I could have had your daughter too. I love your family. You know, I wish we could see you guys more. But this is what I'm doing. And it's that and then it's so far so I kind of process it that way with them.
I think what you said about a lot of the guilt comes from yourself is really powerful. Because I think I took on an inordinate amount of responsibility for what was happening my students lives even though a lot of it is out of our control once they step out of the classroom. Right, or true? Yes. And like you said, when you say these things out loud they're they understand they're happy for you like yeah, went through the same thing. They you know, and they were congratulating me and they were excited. Yeah, it's, we I think a lot of it we put on ourselves for good reason, you know?
Yeah, we're using it. I think a lot of times we use the just like, we think at least I used it as like the motivator to keep going to push. So it can be helpful sometimes, but overall, like guilt is a feeling we should all try to try to leave at the door. There's other more productive emotions, but that one is super common. And it came up for me and it'll probably come up for anyone who tries to leave or who ends up leaving teaching. But hopefully if you stay in teaching because not everyone listening to this is like I have to get out. But if you if you do decide to stay like just know that you're not stuck, you're staying because you want to stay and you're leaving or you're leaving because you want to leave and I think that's the mindset that a lot of teachers get in is that they're like, I'm totally stuck here in this position.
Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a great segue into, you know, one of my final questions. What advice would you give to transitioning teachers who are thinking about copywriting but they're afraid of making that leap?
I would say join copy chief. Just kidding.
But seriously, yeah, I think it's the community. I think you want to get you do want to get somehow connected to individuals to people. And that will start to give you a better understanding of if this is going to work for you or not. It's tempting to want to like to feel like you want to make a change, but you want to do it quietly. And privately. And we might start out that way. I kind of started out that way. But you're never going to really know until you start making connections with people who are in that world. And so I would say that coffee chief is a programme that is really great for making connections with other people with other copywriters in a really like friendly and easy way. It's such a cool community. But I'm sure there are others. So I would I would just tell anyone, if you're a teacher thinking about becoming a copywriter, start figuring out who's in your network that you like me, friends you've had for years that you didn't know, do something like copywriting or something related, and just start talking to people and getting connected.
Yeah, even if you think that your entire networks all teachers just like putting it out there so they know because they know people who are not teachers. And we all know and we do I remember Dasha telling me he would actually like hit the pavement and talk to local shops to see if they need a copy. You know, so
that's cool. Like really old school.
They're broke. Oh, yeah. Knocking on the door. I love it. Yeah.
So how can I how can I listen? Fine and connect with you.
Find me on LinkedIn. My name is Elizabeth Salsbury. I think Betsy is also on there. January generation Schools Network is a company I work for so that you'll you'll know you'll you have found me when you see that. And then check out my medium account. I think you'll probably link that in the show notes or something. Yep, yeah. Those would be the two best places to interact with me. Yeah.
Well, thank you so much for your time. I know we have gone over and this has been a really so many parallels in journeys. It's good to know that you know, that we all face similar issues even though we all might be coming into this a different way. So so thank you guys for listening. They thank you so much, Betsy for for spending the time with us today. And we'll see you on the next episode of classroom to copy