Make Life Less Difficult - Julie Perkins Transcript

6:42PM Oct 16, 2023

Speakers:

Julie Perkins

Lisa Tilstra

Keywords:

life

values

important

simpler

highs

conversation

business

female entrepreneurs

entrepreneur

team

journey

connect

question

grow

purpose

big

story

difficult

problem

julie

Welcome to the make life less difficult podcast. This podcast explores what it means to make life less difficult for each other and for ourselves. We share stories of struggles and successes, because we believe sharing our stories eases the difficulty of life. I'm Lisa Telstra, your host. Let's jump in to today's conversation. My guest today is Julie Perkins. Julie is the founder of wise minds, a company that works alongside female entrepreneurs to help them be at their best feel challenged and good enough to be where they are. Julie has decades of experience building brands, growing businesses and going through some difficult transitions along the way. In our conversation, she shares her wisdom of lessons learned, and how she now helps female founders stay focused on their purpose and passion. While sorting through the challenges of being a founder and entrepreneur. I really enjoyed this conversation with Julie, she and I didn't know each other at all before connecting for the podcast. And it was just such an easy connection and conversation from the moment we connected. Julie, thank you for sharing these pieces of your story and journey. You share with authenticity and passionate energy. With a wisdom that comes from walking the difficult parts of the path. Choosing intentionally and creating your ultimate path for purpose and passion. I know the stories are only a glimpse into your many stories and experiences. And I look forward to learning more about you and from you in future conversations. If you would like to connect with Julie, please see the links that are in the show notes. Julie, welcome to the make life less difficult podcast.

Well, thank you ever so much for having me today. Lisa, I'm really looking forward to our conversation.

I am to Julie and this is a real treat. Because you and I don't know each other before just meeting literally face to face after a few email exchanges here a few minutes ago. But we had to, we had to like actively stop ourselves and be like, Okay, push record. And so it's just I'm very excited to jump into this conversation because it's been so easy to connect with you just in a few minutes here.

Right? I mean, the coolest location as well, I've in the Netherlands, you've been here traveled the world, and we've got so much in common. I can't wait.

Well, thank you. Again, I'm gonna start with my one standard question I like to ask all of my guests and it's around the name of the podcast make life less difficult, which comes from this quote by Marianne Evans, what do we live for, if not to make life less difficult for each other? And I'd love to hear? What does that mean to you?

Well, I think for me making life less less difficult sort of brides have this passion I have for curiosity. And I always think there's different ways of doing things. There's different ways of looking at life. And you know, when we come through those really complicated times, you know, I'm curious to know that we've done better, or when I see something, or even when I walk into a store or grab for dinner, or I'm constantly watching processes, you know, it's not the only thing I talk about, just in case I'm sort of selling myself as the most boring dinner guest ever. But it's it can't help but but look at how things move. And to question, you know, is there a way of doing that simpler? And, and, of course, it includes my passion for what I do now. And how can we do things that is less burden as to ourselves? How do we make things more complicated than they truly need to be? Most of all, we look at things in a different way. I think there's a way of making things simpler. You know, you don't you know, there's things there's tasks when we do the same task, and it's really hard on one day, and not hard on the other. And I think it's just the way sometimes that we look towards what we're doing. So there's lots of things but I think, for of curiosity, I would like to say this, I think it's curiosity.

I love that Julia resonates so much curiosity is one of my core values and, and also something I have had to intentionally develop because I wasn't brought up in an environment that really encouraged curiosity. So that's it. I think it might even be even more important to me because it's been a learned skill over time.

Yeah, I come from a big, fairly fast moving entrepreneurial family. So I think that naturally was coming to you that curiosity that challenge that way of doing things in a different way to create uniqueness. So maybe that was the sort of blessing past to read my family life as well, but you know where it comes from. It's such an important part of today. I mean, with such, you know, world that we live in, you know, it's such an important part.

Yeah. The other the other thing that really stands out to me that you just shared, Julie is using the word simpler. And there Ha, that word just kind of I, you start to just feel more grounded and relaxed, even as you say that. And some people want to take the make less life less difficult and make it we're like, oh, we're trying to make life easier. And when we can, okay, I'm fine for all make making it easier. But I find is like, there's a lot of things in life that we actually can't make easy or easier. But we can make it less difficult. And that simpler to me, just wow, that really, that also touches me and speaks to me like yes, simpler.

But I think you know, the simpler aspect is so important. It's not making things simple. It's making things simpler, I think we have to understand that difference. Because, you know, like we always read, you know, the five ways to making your six. It's not possible, it's the skill of life is to take this incredible experience, the knowledge that you have, and extract what is the most important things bit order to make it simpler, not simple, simpler, I guess, you know, what are you read that I think we all read it a lot over sort of COVID We're all trying to get businesses or survive. This looks like the five easiest way that you can never reduce what you need to do to make life amazing. You could just make it simpler with the way that you look upon it, or the way that you do it, et cetera. So yeah, that's why I love that word simpler. But I always like to say the different, simpler, simple. What was that, quote? What was the quote of the I always forget this big favors coach goes, I'm sorry, for the long letter. I didn't have time to write you a short one. And that whole whole aspects of someone's bios, I'm terrible at that. But it's so whole thing. It's like, he could write long, but the skill is taking length knowledge and making it into something that catches people and yourself. You know, so.

yes. 100%? Yes. So Julie, you know, you and I talked before we started recording about multiple ways this conversation could go and I, I my, my intuition is that we'll be able to say, let's have part two, and maybe even part three after this, because there's going to be so much to cover. Let me let me toss the question to you and just see what it sparks for you. And then and where we go from there. I'll say that. I'm curious. When you look back over your life, and you think about a moment that you looked around and thought, oh, wow, life is difficult, maybe even more difficult than I was expecting. It could be? What, what comes up for you?

Well, you know, automatically, it comes from the moment about 10 meters away from where I was Saturday. And, you know, I was at the garden, I was growing a big brand in the Netherlands from scratch. And I found myself out in the garden at 3am in the morning, sort of hands to the air just going what more can I do? Because when you have a business, and everything's right on paper, everything's right with the people. When it's chugging, and it should have been growing fast. Everything was right for that to happen. But that frustration when it was just chugging and I think the burden that I had put upon myself, in order to reflect the expectations of others. And what it should have been doing was huge. And I hadn't really realized it and I was stood there doing what we do when we we blame ourselves, what more can I do? And then ultimately, the answer is actually do less. And this this, this burden. And that really was the beginning of I think the pivotal change for me, where I realized how hard I was making it. And, of course going back to the fact that there's no simpler way to grow a business. You know, it's still hard work. But how hard I was making it for me, because I had sort of realized, as I was sort of sat out there and obviously conversations afterwards with some very key people that I was very close to was that I had built the company around me, which I think sometimes this is is a natural thing to do. And lots of founders I work with now because we're so passionate about what we do. And after a while it just results in more things on the to do list more operational situations and you hold more responsibility. And actually the answer is to let go. But you start to kid yourself that you love it. Are you still happy? Are you still loving what you do? And that was the question that I remember one of my key right hand people asked me, this, what I shared the story of oh my gosh, I've been up at 3am. Again, it's a duty, do you still love what you do? And I will kind of a first went, of course, I do, you know, taking the corporate stand. And, you know, upon reflection, I, I didn't I, I was meeting myself on the natural hamster wheel. And I was in survival mode. And at the same time as being in the survival mode, and making it hard for myself, I was making it hard for these incredible people that were surrounded with me, for this company. And then I think, you know, that, that time of reflection, and, and asking myself, How can I be the rudder of this company, rather than the rudder, the wheel, the boat, the cliffs, and everything else. And it's not as easy going back to the simple, simpler, you know, people go Well, Judy, we've been nagging you to delegate for as long as we remember. And it's not delegation. It's the simple version. But how you have to do it is the importance of finding yourself which rodder Do you want to be, and how you can lead with it, in order to create that space for others to stand up. And that was a very shortened version of this story of how I made myself redundant. And then by making yourself with abundant, you can reposition yourself where you are at your best, and then lead rather than be, and of course, your list is gonna go, Well, that's obvious. But when you're passionate about something as entrepreneur, this happens, it doesn't happen overnight, wakes up on you. And then suddenly, you're thinking, well, Sophia, I tell this story now, and I kind of feel like a fool. But you're not. Because it's that natural human instinct to hold on to what you love to passionate, to care for it, you know, baby infant child, you know, it's exactly the same pattern with a business or life you hold on. So I think that would be the biggest pivotal beginning of the difference between making it simpler to grow a business. Simpler, what I mean is simpler on yourself. It's still hard work simpler on yourself, and joy and fulfillment came back, you know, that is a driver of founders, it really is. And, you know, I lost it, but you catch yourself because you feel guilty. You've really put yourself in, I didn't want to fall out of love, because I thought I was being disloyal to this, you know, baby child, I bought up you know, it's a really big story for me.

Thank you so much for sharing that there's so many different questions I have that are coming to my mind. And, you know, one of the things that I heard you say that really stands out, you, you didn't even realize this place that you were at, because you were in the Survivor Mode. And I talked to people all the time, who are saying, like, similar to you. Yeah, I'm awake at three o'clock in the morning. And it's almost like they're still convincing themselves that they love what they're doing enough to stay in. And if they change things up, well, then there's these unknowns and the fears that are associated with that. But I think what I want to try to just come back around to is this idea of, oftentimes, we don't realize when we're in Survivor Mode, and I'm curious of how you kind of came to that realization, and then what it took to kind of release and shift gears? Yeah.

Well, I mean, the lucky thing in life is I was surrounded by incredible people on the team. And because we built it together, there was a stronger relationship, that you get an early stage startup, which is well above the sort of the larger corporate. You know, there's, there's so much personal sharing, because there's also personal experiences when you're growing up together, often in a startup situation, band, and I think it's answering that question. Do you still love what you do? And of course, it's it's not a quest question of yes or no, but it's about how you spend your time. In and you can only really answer that when you know who you are, and how you the lens through which you see life. And they think that was my starting point, I've never sat down there and defined purpose and values for myself personally. And that was a big key thing. And every goes well, I, you know, I've got loads of posts, I've got values, and there's normally lists like 20 values, the top four normally define, I suppose, how you see life, how you take choices, how you take decisions. And I think that was the starting point me who am I? How do I want to lead? And am I doing that now? Whereas, you know, what do you start looking at the influence of those values and what you do, you haven't fallen out of love with your company at all, you've actually fallen out of love with what you're doing for that company, because it's fighting the lens through which you see life. And once you go black down there, and go, Okay, I define the leader, I want to be I defined where I want to be in the company, you start to grow back trust in yourself that it's okay, this is gonna sound to do less. You don't have to be running around. And I think that beautiful sort of journey, and then you begin going right? Who do I need to surround myself by? If you look at how companies grow in a series of waves, you know, I was holding on to the old way than getting on a new one and drowning in the middle. And they say, who do we want to be? Bring up? Who is that? And how do we connect? And that comes down to? How do you create trust to let go? It's not about delegating, how do you train, you know, create that trust. And that's when life can become simpler. And, you know, I challenge anyone who's listening, I look at your to do list and realize how much stuff you really don't like. And it's not about just doing all the things we like in life. But you know, that role that we play. That's why we become founders, so that we can choose to see how we spend life and but you have to release yourself. And that's what that really was that first status and what I do with entrepreneurs now, massive thing about values before you can lead others, you need to lead yourself I'm sure that's not news. But really it grounds on it. And I really live by it today. Journaling values, journaling, how I used my values that day, it's like a muscle you've got, you've got to use it. You can't just write on a piece of paper like like with a company, you journal, this is how I am this is how I influenced it. This is how I suppose it was like it because I was there celebrate a kind?

Yes, there's so much. And I think values, I would love to ask you to say a little bit more about how you even define values. And maybe even the process that you you walk with someone or your own pieces of your own journey of really discovering your own values as well.

Yeah, I mean, this is a huge thing that entrepreneurs do, because we're all in it. So I do have a defined a defined process of doing that, that journey. And I think quite often we go through life without looking at past of our experiences, the highs and the lows. And this isn't about solving the past. That's not what coaching does. It's about saying, How has the past given us that view of life. And that's what we do the highs, the lows, because when we're experiencing the highs and lows, like for example, when I sat 3am In the morning, it wasn't the nonprofit what was sort of fighting within myself, what did I feel at the time, because quite often there's highs and lows is when it's not fighting what you're doing, it's fighting who you are. And I think that is a beautiful way of reflecting. You don't hate the situation now you're not here with a situation now this thing that's misaligned with who you are. So we spend a lot of time doing that the highs and the lows, looking at those key values and, and really working on saying what's the most important thing so when we get to there we go. What's more important than that, so very standard coaching like really trying to funnel that through and as much as they stand as values which is great. We look at the values in all roles of life. I don't have a very good relationship with expression work life balance because I always think it highlights work and I always think what you put worker that who put work in the naughty corner. You know work what gives me you know, excitement and joy I get the premise. And it's of course, but so we kind of look at how those values, look in all roles of our life to try and create the balance from our inner voice, you know, as a, as a, quite often as a mother, as a family member, as a friend as hobbies unto ourselves. So that's a big part, before we even begin to grow the business, again, it's so important is what those values mean to you in all roles in your life. So that's very much the beginning of the process. Because until you can clear yourself out the way. It's, it's, you know, the people can't go, I think the problem was marketing, I think the problem is digital. And you have to have this journey to understand what I went through at 3am in the morning for yourself, you know, what's that journey for you? So, it you know, it's my favorite part, I love it, because everyone goes up. My God is like an awakening. And that's magical.

It is, it is in honoring to oneself rightly. Because oftentimes, in for an entrepreneur, for a founder, there's so much attention focused outward, and on others and on building processes and systems. And that's really important. And at some point in time, like you said, I've got to see myself, I need to know myself. And that attention, needs to shift inward. And I love, I love what you said about work life balance, I want to dig into that a little bit more, because that phrase never works for me either. And I feel like it sets so many of us up for just abject failure all the time. And I'm like, How can we get away from this phrase? So I want to hear more about that. But I just love this, right? We, you know, like, we've got to figure out how to see ourselves, and it can be so affirming and magical when we do and the beauty of that is then it just makes such a huge, enormous positive difference on everybody around us and the systems and the processes and like,

Absolutely. I mean, especially well, with myself, I've already mentioned the word guilt. And this is, is such an emotion that sometimes runs through female founders who come and work with me, as I'm sure you hear as well. It's, it's that guilt of are you getting the right balance? So that's why I say, Look, just forget the hat, the headlines, what is that balance for you? And how can you be the rudder to yourself, and be able to project and I mentioned about journaling, and it sounds so minor, but even, you know, as you're going through far, I mean, I run from A to B as well, you know, not have perfect sort of values danger here. But, you know, if you kind of give everything a hat, so I have a list of the hats of the roles that I play in life. And it's about balancing facts of this. Sometimes when I'm really struggling, and I go, Oh my gosh, it means I'm wearing one too much. Like, for example, I'm doing you know, the role, the hat of wise mind more than the hat of fun. So you've got to keep that whole thing. And we visiting and journaling about the thoughts in your day, but how you spent that it starts to bring it to life, again, that balance coming through. And it sounds like a small thing. But journaling is a huge part of that in the morning, to recognize yourself to actually respect yourself whole of yourself. And then of course, and it's, it's it sounds so I mean, if people of my past know that in terms of jelly, they'd be laughing go, really. But it's such an important part of daily routine now for me, because, you know, and I try and encourage entrepreneurs to do it, because it's so easy to be caught up wearing one hat. You know. So it's very important. It's the whole life. It's not just work balance, which I agree with you, it brings up a whole nother of risks of failure, because then you're kind of percentage measuring and then you're thinking, oh my gosh, and it's not it's about your balance.

I love the hats. And the wear that takes me is different seasons. And you know, there's different hats that I wear, more or less in different seasons. And you know, in in the entrepreneur world, I think really thinking in all of our lives. There's life goes through seasons, and so you know what, sometimes I'm wearing my work hat a lot. And also I know, okay, the change of season is coming, and then I'm going to be able to wear my fun hat. Nice. Yep. And I like

that. Yeah, I think I think you're absolutely spot on. This isn't again, creating a new definition of work life balance because we walk into the same problem. This is just about a value awareness. And you're right. You know, in the summer, you're wearing different hats and seasonality, as we come now into September, you know, the hat, you know, I go back more to it. And that's the beautiful thing, you know about agility. And that's the same as a business. You know, it's like, you have a core resilience that runs through a business as you do yourself. That's your rudder. That's your stability, in terms of organizational purpose and values as much as your personal one. And the beauty of life, surely, is the agility that sits around that, you know, that's where growth comes from, I suppose for a business as well as yourself. It you're absolutely spot on. Absolutely.

Yeah. I love that term agility, too. It's one, I often forget about it right here just heard you say it, like agility? That's such a good word. I need to like post it in my office. When you do you

become rigid, right? Without realizing. And I sort of, of course, we know it. We know you want to be agile and be reactive to things that are happening in the, in your own environment, not alone the world. And, you know, occasionally, you do have to get out of process. You know, I volunteered back in July for the Island games in Guernsey, which is where I originally come from. And you know, I had to be the host for the for the islands that was coming over to play the sport. And it bought this beautiful agility back because you didn't know what was going to happen with your day. How do you get golfers when the bus hasn't turned up over to the other side of the island? How, and it was fun. And you know, I just thought I'd lost that you got to, you've got to have the unknown in there. But you also need the stability because you can't be running from one thing to the other. You know, becoming a different leader all the time to what you are, you know, that calm that leader. And I think that's the importance of those core values. But that was super fun. You should be pushing the unknown occasionally. And I hadn't done it for a long time. And it was a blast.

That was awesome. That was awesome. Yeah, Julie, as I'm listening to you, there's, there's so much wisdom. And I, you've you alluded to your team and the people around you. So I think this might be part of the answer to the question I have for you. But I'll, I'll just, again, toss it over to you and just see where it leads you getting to that place at 3am. In your garden. It's one of those moments I tend to refer to as like, those are difficult moments in life, right. And there's no magic wand that just all of a sudden, okay, we've solved every problem and everything simple, right? Like, it's like it's a process to get it to that simpler place. And I'm curious, who and or what help has helped you continues to help you during those difficult times to make life a little less difficult. Get back on that simpler track.

Yeah. I mean, if for work, particularly, you know, that comes from the team around but we've recruited and in small businesses, you know, that can mean your suppliers, your alliances, you don't necessarily have to have a direct team employed, although I, I do. It's definitely shared values, because you, we I sort of really coached entrepreneurs as well on value based recruitment. You know, what's that conversation? How do you come together, because you have to have exactly the same values, but you have to be able to connect the values in to connect effectively on the journey. And that's the business but often with that harms an easier flow of how you connect. So the fact that back in July, I was volunteering, and I wasn't around as much as I were like, I have this incredible Operations Manager as I did back when I was opening up the brand and in Europe, you can just flow and pick up you don't have to make excuses. You can just say, this is what I'm going to be doing. And next they can cover for you pick you up support, because you know each other on this higher than the in the capability on your connecting and linking. Very, very important for suppliers, and alliances because when you're small, and you don't have a copious amount of money, you have to choose very wisely. And that that alliance or that team or outside supplier has to really connect in what you're doing. Otherwise, it's going to take more of your time to be able to manage that situation, then they're not and that value based recruitment is very important. You You have to be aligned with what you believe how you work, and how they treat their team. Because there's a couple in the past where I've had to drop the supplier, because the value on their people was overwork. And, and it just conflicts eventually, you know, that's one of the biggest challenges. So the people around you is very, very important. You have to have that open, trustworthy relationship with everybody. But you have to understand how to have business have your personal life, sometimes, especially entrepreneur, they cross over, you have to understand that it's not, you're not some sort of magical woman that you can turn up as the leader of the moment every day, you know, you have to be able to support each other on that as well.

You haven't developed that magic wand yet for us all.

Not yet. Not yet. Although, funny, you should mention that, actually, because we do use this thing called the Powerball. Because a lot of that, well, a lot of young entrepreneurs, and I think probably myself, you know, they said, Well, I don't like to address that, because I don't like conflict. And, you know, we always sort of see when we don't agree is something of conflict, rather than this opportunity to make something better. And I always say, Well, how can you use it to make something better? So we have the power war, which is the because we grow purpose led organizations, which is the alignment of your team, the way that you work, purpose, and your customer all together, we measure it. So I said, Well, if you put that in the basis of of your situation, the first question you can ask when he wants to improve this part of the Powerball is misaligned, what part of it is deflated, so that you're pushing any conversation into third party. And so we actually nicknamed it the blame ball, because people always go, well, that's a bit deflated. That's a bit deflated. And there was a well, what role do we all play in that? So you're actually doing the appraisal in a, in a nice together way. It's a series of events.

I love it. I love it. In there something that is incredibly powerful. And it can, it can feel a little bit magical, when we can figure out how to shift from internal to something external to us. And it's sort of metaphorical, right, like, but just to be like, Oh, the Powerball is out here. Let's look at these different segments of it. Which part is a little deflated? It just in that instant, it makes it a little less personal for everybody engaged in the conversation. And that's such a such a key part of dealing with conflict and disagreement more effectively.

Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, without a doubt, I mean, don't get me wrong, I've made mistakes in my past. I mean, I'm 54 You know, this, but but learning from those challenges about to try and avoid the iron and the Wii and you and, you know, and to, you'll often find, when you're very fast moving, the problems, or the things that go wrong, are never one thing, so that you're never going to get lost position. Second position issue there you ever gonna say that was me because it never is one person. And I think as we go towards unity, which is very important and purpose led organizations, you have to be able to look at challenges or veggie opportunities as one. So having this Powerball where you never really have to hit the fight. You can, you know, and I was using it as an example, I always remember in when I was growing a company in Europe that's to Specsavers. The product didn't arrive in time, all of it for this sales, right? So so marketing advertising, they come up with this massive campaign, and we sell out within two weeks. Now, there's a team of that 50 of us. So, you know, marketers say, well, it's product products say, Well, you didn't tell us marketing the stores or like what the heck. And, and really, it's never one problem. It's never one solution is where did it go wrong? Where did we ever sit down and say, right, how does this help with purpose? How do we unify? Now? There was no way I was going to get a mean I want to run a big company, no marketing. You can't fight on function. Otherwise, that's you know, overgrow achieve anything? Yeah. How do you create this unity, to give it as an opportunity for next time? How do you have the white thinking about it? And that was the beauty of the power. Well, the beauty of looking at it in a unified identifying problems it's never one thing. Never. I will guarantee it less subsidies you If white people around the table, it's often just how it started off. So it's a beautiful way of looking at problems. You know, it's, it's never one thing.

Usually, I agree so much, right? And and yet, oftentimes, human brain seems to want to find that, like just very simple story that says it is it is just marketing here it is just digital or is just when you have a team, and you're in this place of people blaming and pointing fingers, what are some of the techniques that you use as a leader to step in and shift the dynamic there to something more productive and effective?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's the, it's the key start. And when we're talking with external suppliers, or alliances or team members, that importance, if we go back before the problem of onboarding, absolutely essential that it doesn't matter what role indirect or direct role that person placed in your company, that onboarding into your organization, about your vision, about your dreams about what you want coming true, what the changes that you want to make, and how you think their role, and the team of joining is going to contribute towards that change is essential. So that enables us in the past to always go back to that initial onboarding. So quite often, when you have suppliers, we have appraisals, and, you know, and stuff like this. But, you know, we always began with looking at misalignment and the Powerball because they knew the language. And I think even without the pebble, you've got a vision, you've got organizational purpose, and values. And if you've on boarded suppliers into that doesn't mean they've got to toe your line, but they have to be aware of how they integrate and align with what you're trying to do. So it's always a beautiful way. So So onboarding is correct. So let's pretend to have an onboarding, you've got conflict. It's a good way how you introduce that, that that the meeting, what are we here for? What's the change? what's gone wrong? What's the conflict? You know, where does it sit? And to revisit it on a higher level? Because it's very difficult when you're there looking at change for someone to say, well, it's marketing. Because, you know, a vision evolves, everybody, and that important thing is to keep reviewing the right level. And there were very intelligent person, people would, I think, debate that Einstein ever said it. And I think there are I get corrected all the time, he supposedly said it, that you can't solve a problem and the same levels it's created. So if you've got a clash of communication, you can't make communication better. You have to go up above communication, to ask, why communicate what what's the problem of it, in order to solve that, which is a really fun thing is the big bold questions that we ask. So yeah, I think always reviewing back to the organizational purpose values, even if you haven't on boarded, but you should be onboarding suppliers and alliances as much as you know. So we'll you embodied that. Where are we in common? What what? How will we have a good conversation? Even small amounts of that before you're in the nitty gritty does help?

Absolutely. Absolutely. If someone's listening right now, and they are thinking to themselves, I agree so much. And also, I wish I had known all of this or wish I knew what I know, now 357 years ago, and they find themselves into the midst of you know, a startup where a startup sometimes start out on the right foot and sometimes don't. What what are some of the first steps for somebody who finds themselves in the midst of oh, okay, now I'm seeing things from a whole new perspective. But it's a little overwhelming because we have all these players and pieces in place. Where do I even begin?

Yeah. And it must seem overwhelming, because we look at it in the world that we see. So the very first step is to take yourself out of the world that you see. And, you know, because quite often, I don't deal with companies like stripe from scratch. They they've been trading for a while. So the very first thing to do is to understand that growth starts with you. This beautiful story owes us which is Mount Everest, but I'm going to use that because I know how much you love the mountains because I've listened to you're all there theories of the craft bar that are like this. So, you know, it's sort of say when you get to camp 1234, and you're at base camp, and you've got this incredible dream, and then you get to camp for, and you start to watch others pass you and you start to become demoralized. And question is my team still with me, et cetera, to get to that summit to get to that next level. But I sort of say to a lot, the founders, and it was a story of myself, you're too heavy to climb. And if you want to have quick checklist of it, have a look at your to do list, have a look at what you're doing. And really, it's the question of, you're still taking with you holding on to processes things, sometimes even people that no longer serve, and what took you to where you are isn't what's going to take you further. So this is where you go back to the beginning, personally, so no one has to know. So you don't have to worry about everything this, we find that purpose and values and begin to climb again, knowing more than what you did. And this way is in terms of the step process, organizational purpose and values, how alive is it found much as it directing your alignment to your customer, the way that you work, your team and your connection, and towards that original vision. And that can be a little SWAT little kind of view, just for yourself personally, just to kind of just reset and try and get things in next. You don't want to create overwhelm. Sometimes, it's the smallest thing. It doesn't have to be massive, great big, you know, we always hear about the revamp and change. Sometimes it's just about shaking the tree a bit. And seeing and lightning yourself to climb and say right, what will serve us there. And that's very important. But you have to go back down to base camp personally, in order to remove yourself from the current world, you see, so that you can look at other levels of and take that fresh perspective. And sometimes I must admit, even doing that first step is 80% of the profit, like I did, with kidding yourself that you you're still loving what you're doing, and actually letting go with, you know, what, what's not needed anymore?

Yeah, yeah. There that analogy on Mount Everest speaks to me, as you said, the mountain so to speak to everyone the way to me, but it's really powerful. Because when you're doing especially like the high altitude climbs and pushes, you know, one of the strategies for acclimatized to higher elevations is that you you camp at one point, and then you would wake up, you'd hike way up high, but then actually returned to a lower Yes, sleep at night. And the first time I had to do this, it felt counterintuitive. And I'm like, No, I've gotten up so high, I don't want to go back down and lose any gain. And I just see like that psychological battle a little bit with with ourselves. And I know I've stepped into it in business, myself as in growth where you're like, but I've been I've climbed up this high. Yeah, I don't want to go back to base camp. And yet the things that I have weighing me down, that served me getting to Basecamp are not serving me, going further towards the summit. There's so much

there. It's so true. And I think, you know, without making it a gender thing, because you know, men and women can have all the different trade offs, masculine and feminine traits. And I always joke, my mother's got more masculine than my father. They're both successful entrepreneurs. I think that's why they work well together. But but it's very interesting that women generally have more feminine traits, and which is great, but what I do is learn to play the whole keyboard because under pressure, we'll stick to what comes naturally holding on, collaboration, our threadably strong leadership traits when we're driving with them. But when we're kind of under panic, we're holding tighter and trying to hold absolutely everything. That's one of the big problems and, and having trust in ourselves and who we are. Give us that chance to look at the whole keyboard of leadership traits to understand it's not one way but how are we going to use this? When's it a time to hold on tight? When is it a time to let go? When is it time to collaborate? And when is it a time to take that singular minded decision? Or the broader aspect. And this is one thing when you have these beautiful purpose and values, it allows you to play the whole keyboard with confidence as a leader, you know, knowing what hat to play. I mean, I think it's probably no clue to your leaders. I, you know, I love to talk. You know, what your meetings and you know, it's like, when do you play that? When do you play the conversation, the education, the knowledge, when do you play, sit back and listen, and it's not easy. But it allows you to have that confidence. I am here, I don't need to prove myself by demonstrating leadership traits the same, but I've got a lead by a me.

Yeah, yeah. I love that. It's really beautiful. Yeah, you're, I am. I'm curious. And I all put this out on the table, and then you can take it any different direction. But one of the one of the reasons why I do this podcast is I find in my own life, oftentimes, I feel like whatever I'm struggling with, I'm alone. And nobody gets it. And yet, in reality, whenever I do make a point of reaching out to a friend, a colleague, my sister and Cher, there's always this like, connection point like, and it's why I believe in the power stories, because I hear someone else's story. And I think, Oh, I'm not the only one struggling with this. And there's so bringing this idea around to entrepreneurs, and particularly female entrepreneurs, a lot of the women that I talked to in this field, it can be lonely, and leadership can be lonely, from all different perspectives and different reasons. But I'm curious of what are some of your thoughts around the loneliness that can exist? How much of that do we create for ourselves? How much of that is is part of the reality? And then we have to be intentional about finding the connection? I'm just gonna stop talking and let you go any direction you

want? It's a really important question. Because, you know, as they say, it's lonely at the top. But you know, it doesn't have to be. And it's how we look about about it. And especially with, you know, female entrepreneurs, we've started with a passion. And we want to prove that we're able to grow that business. So quite often, we'll take that sole, whatever we've been told in our past, or whatever, I'll show them, and I'll grow it and everything like that. So there is that single minded trait to get things done, for sure. But also, as you're going through that journey, and you are that founder and you are that soul, white group, what I say is that knowing yourself is, you know, those are the values etc, is the rod that you can hold. And even under really hard circumstances where you feel lonely, this list of values is the is a very important way to hold on take step back and go right. What does the real it what is it telling me to do? What is that decision, and very strangely, having the poster or however you do it for yourself of who you are, makes it less lonely. But that's where I wrote severes story. Because I say to entrepreneurs, you are unique, your business is unique, but the way businesses grow, is not. And I tried to get them to network with severe by reading this very simple story. And they told me gosh, it's like, you know me, you know, it's not that you don't you and it's there are patterns there weren't. So it's not my fault, like a all your fault. And if you can use the patterns to grow, coupled by holding on to the right of who you are, it just makes life a little bit simpler. Because you could predict the patterns. And you could avoid the potholes. Totally, because you've got the external force. But you could literally say, I'm feeling conflicting here because my business is trying to tell me this. I see it, I know it and I can adjust it before you know I'm on the floor. And that is that pattern is to dance with what we know how businesses grow. And that's making it simpler for sure. But holding on to the rod. People like predictability or, you know, young entrepreneurs sort of say, well, what should I read to become a good leader? Who would say the Life Book of yourself? They go of course before you can follow all the traits of all these amazing books and leaders, even to know what they attach themselves to you Don't be just a bunch of competencies and behaviors, you have to have to come from a core of who you are because you're brilliant and unique. And you don't want to lose that. So, read the book of you first.

It again, it sounds, it sounds so simple and yet, so not simple. It's complex. And wow, what a what a journey that can be to read the book of, of me. Us. Yeah,

well, it's interesting, because we go so fast, we don't value life. So when I first sort of worked with it, and I wanted to mind you like this, you're sort of writing flippantly, or went to school. And, and it's really interested there to remind you, for these incredible journeys that you had, you know, when were you are your highs, and you have to go, Well, I don't think I've had one of those for about 10 years, and then you kind of reflect you. So it brings this beautiful value to your life. And then you say, Well, what was I feeling there that made it so special for me, and it's a lovely way of connecting the dots. As you know, Steve Jobs famously said, you don't know the future, just connect the dots of your past and you'll find out that you're naturally connecting them towards the path that you should be on battering energy, we got to remember it in order to have give it value. And that stops may find a lot of the anxiety of trying to predict future. It does help to make people present. Because you like, right, this is who I am. How do I prepare for the future? Rather than how do I predict the future? What should I do? You know, it's, it does help there. Again, simpler way of looking at things. Grounding, present.

Yes. And it takes an intentional slowing down. To get myself I noticed for myself, I have to really slow down to open that journal up and say, Okay, I'm gonna take the time to reflect because it's so easy just to be like, Oh, I don't know, nothing's happened over the last six months. It's what has happened, what have the highest been what have the lows been? And yeah, that that grounding that presence that's slowing down?

Yeah. It's so it's so important. And I'm one of the early risers, and nothing comes in that first hour of the day. You know, it's it's beautiful. And I was laughing, right? an hour, what should I do in that hour? I said, right. First of all, there's no Olympic gold medal waiting for you in the kitchen when you wet your coffee. So it doesn't have to become an Olympic event. You know, it's like there's go, just do as your body is asking you to do, you know, make sure there's a bit of exercise in there, journaling, writing, reading, you know, reflection rotation. This isn't, this isn't a gold medal. This is this is what's important to set you up.

I love that so much, Julie, because I'm one of those people. You know, what it makes me think the comment you just made a few minutes ago about the leaders who were like, What books should I read to be the best I can be? And there's so I mean, there's so many books out there, right about the best way to start your day. And these, you know, five magic morning tips and stuff. And I, I, I have found over the years I'm like, Okay, this stuff isn't working for me. And there's moments where I've been like, what's wrong with me, it works for this person, it works for that person. Like, clearly there's something wrong with me. And then but when I take the time, and I read the book of me, and I honor, okay, this is what my best morning practice looks like. And it might look nothing like any of

the bucks that are published out there. And who cares? Because

it's wrong. For me.

That's right. And that can change. You brought up the seasonal thing. You know, sometimes I just think, you know, I need something more than the other. You know, I've just come back off this, you know, working over black and Guernsey and being in Guernsey. And of course, you're living different lives about my godson about having a blast, you know, I know the next two weeks, I need more healthy eating and exercise. So I think I might have to add a little bit more. But, you know, I think that's this beautiful thing about knowing yourself and just setting that time aside, but not being rigid with it. Just you know, do what, what's being asked of you for yourself.

Yes, it's beautiful. I feel I feel a lightness and a groundedness just even talking about this and being reminded of the things Julie.

It's to know sometimes you know, when I listened to your podcast, especially the one that you did yourself, which was really be really good. And you know that that beautiful reminding of when we listen to podcasts, et cetera, it's, it's the simplest thing. So I just thought, you know about looking at how we cope with the hardest times, and the simplest thing of reaching out to somebody, or to share that story, as you've been saying, and, you know, when you share that story, you know, problems shared, and, and how much power that brings both sides of the party, and learning to share. And I just, I thought myself, I thought, you know, those difficult challenging times, you know, who did you reach out to? What did you who did you bring into the circle for that particular time? And how do you support also teachers, people, teachers, yourself, sorry, how you can support others what you think isn't important, you know, sending a card sending a small text going, I was thinking you this morning, I saw this, I thought, but out of those small things that are really sort of reminded me about the role that we play, you know, in just just being aware of what we can do for others go for our time, and it doesn't have to be big things.

Yes, it's, it's often the little things, and I and I have experienced that so many times in my life, where it's someone taking a moment to be present with me, and to ask them, genuinely, how are you? Cos nothing takes maybe three to five minutes of time, sometimes a little longer. Yeah. Yeah. Like it, it can make a profound difference.

Yeah. Yeah. It's, you know, and also in today's society of them, texting, etc, etc. Just small personalization of dropping somebody a card, suddenly that comes through the post other than Bill. Yes. Yeah. It's like, really nice to see. And so yes, you're the the conversation about those lifeless, difficult, you know, it's a reminder of the role that we play on that for others and for ourselves. And I really enjoyed that I really reflected after listening to yours. So thank you for that.

Thank you very much, very much, Julie, this has just been a delight. And I, I would absolutely love to have you back. If you have time in your schedule. And I know there's there's a whole lot of personal journey that we didn't get to go into today. But I have so many questions and would love to learn more about your journey on that side of of life. I'm wondering before we formally wrap up, you you've been talking throughout our conversation about what you do. But but if you were to just tell us succinctly indirectly, your your purpose in wise minds and what you do, I'll just give you a moment to share.

Well, purpose clear the reason we want every female entrepreneur to be who wants to grow their business to grow their business, and it's simpler than they think that's the purpose but but what we do is we we take businesses to where the entrepreneur is overwhelmed, who have fallen out with their business, and just take them on a very short journey, that journey that took me 10 years to realize in a very short period of time to ask the right questions, have they really fallen out of love 99.9% of time, they haven't. They're just battling themselves and what the business is trying to tell them. We never want to lose a great idea. And women are more often than not have companies that benefit society, as in health and well being and these very important things in today's society. So there are great ideas out there who don't want to lose them.

All right, love that. I will put links in the show notes. But is there a best place to find you? Is it website? Is it social media?

Well, I'm on LinkedIn, and our website is wise minds.com where the why? You know I mentioned the Powerball have a go completely free, have a go and see how aligned your Powerball is, you know, if you want to, it's completely free. It gives you a whole bespoke report about some of the questions that you can ask yourself in order to become aligned. So that's always a fun thing to do.

Yes, absolutely. Thank you. Thank you so much for that. Thank you for your time today. It is lovely to connect with you. I hope that I'm passing through the Amsterdam area sometime soon and we could connect in.

Exactly I love that Lisa has so much for having me. I've really enjoyed this conversation. And I look forward to having another conversation hopefully in the future or passing at Arts in Amsterdam.

Both let's let's find on both another conversation on the podcast a time in person. That would be delightful. Thank you so much. Thank Good. Thank you for listening to today's conversation and episode or the make life less difficult podcast editing is done by Joseph burdock artwork is by Emma Burdock. I'd be honored if you took a moment to share this with a friend and or leave us a review. Together. I truly believe we can make life less difficult