Hello, and welcome back everyone to our ongoing quest to build a culture of empathy. We are recording this call for education and promotional purposes. If you do not want to be recorded, please put an X next to your name. If you're four, go ahead and put an R. And today we're going to take just a quick short round for check ins about 30 seconds each. So any questions, comments, controversy from the last session? How did your empathy Buddy Call go? Any short reports from doing your own empathy circles and any feedback from the session video, and I will go around and start calling on folks.
Let's start
with the lovely
Miss Jennifer and love.
I just want to share content instead of unmute myself. Hi. So my buddy Cole was wonderful. It was with a man. Really awesome to connect with her in the UK. And let's see. So from the week's empathy work, I told my son and I got started getting into a heated thing that we do. And I said, Hey, I've got this homework. Can you just let me repeat back what what you've said, like we did in the empathy circle with my dad, Dad, you look very handsome, by the way. And he said, Okay, and then he started sharing. And I started just what I call recreation. Like I recreated his communication back and did the, you know, the reflective listening part. And only that, like, I didn't give him an opportunity to whatever, because it's at a certain point, he's like, Well, how can can you just respond to that. And it kind of evolved from there. But it was really cool, because basically what he was saying to me is that he thinks I'm a crazy person. And I reflected that back to him, like, you think I'm a crazy person, but he didn't say those words. It's like regarding something specific that we're dealing with, and, and that's when he was just like, so frustrated. Like, you agree, you hear you hear yourself. So yeah, so that was really, really cool. So thank you to the circles and all of the trainers for you know, fostering that kind of skill in the life and to the to the homework, you know, I think it's a testament to the way this can weave into your life and have really practical benefit.
practical life application. D How about you? Yes,
good afternoon. I did both of my homeworks this week and I'm happy to get both of those completed. The Buddy Call was very good. There is well behaved we didn't have any challenges. I was really grateful for that Larry, my empathy circle that I led with three other people had almost all the challenges because they didn't know what was going on and they wanted to yak and, and so that's kind of how that way. So when I say I've got a 32nd check in, so I'm gonna start with that. Okay.
Beautiful.
Good check in Alexandria.
Hi, everyone. I am coming off the back of what feels like a really crazy intense weekend time. i Yeah, so much is going on in my life, including the two discoveries this week in the drain pipe have two little kittens. So they've been the most wonderful, lovely surprise, and I'll just hold on to them until they go to their forever home. I've been thinking lots about empathy. And after the session last week did lots of writing and thinking and reflecting and it's been coming up a lot for me this week in really positive ways. I stood Cathy up for our buddy call after having organized it and scheduled it. I did not show up. And it's one of many things this week that has kind of fallen through the cracks. So glad to be here.
Welcome welcome. George check in for us.
Yes, hello. Whoa. The article was great was Jana. And we talk about difference between guilt and remorse or regret which is different things. And also I, it was a feeling that how, how many similar things we have in common in spite of the culture. So we read your religious views or whatever. So it's it was really great. Yeah. That's pretty much that's all. Thank you.
Excellent. And with Ruth
Hello, sorry, I'm a bit late. Yeah. Oh, good had a very nice call with DJ yesterday. I think we just we use the time really well. You know, we had a practice and covered a lot of topics. Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to do an empathy circle, face to face. It's just been a busy week, and I've been a bit under the weather. But I've got one planned for next week. So that's good.
We'll go on to miss Anne was and you're still muted.
There we go. Yeah, it's been a good week, I really enjoyed my buddy Cole, and had a really excellent empathy circle on Thursday evening. So that's good. And it's good being here with all of you.
Thank you. Miss Cathy.
Oh, yes. Yeah, I missed my buddy call with Alex. It's so funny though. I thought I had Jennifer's picture with her, Alex. So I thought it was with Jennifer. So now I have Jennifer and Alec straight. So.
Excellent. And Jonathan, checking in. Well, I've had a very challenging week, I've been up in a different location, I just had my main computer, I believe, give up the ghost forever.
This has been a hard week for me and I have to apologize for having missed my buddy call. But I've learned one thing and in a way, I'm really looking forward to our training session. Because I have an opportunity to say what's on my mind. And it's just, I don't want to, I don't know how to say this. But it's, it's comforting to see that everyone here is going through difficulties just like me, we're all you know, challenged and, you know, I really want to live up to my contract and do participate fully. And it's hard when you know, things don't work well. And I'm grateful to be here
when Lee
Oh, I feel really fortunate had excellent, excellent empathy circle on Wednesday, the European one. Some real challenges, you know, I take my hat off to people who are willingly engage with English as an additional language. And that really brings some challenges for some people and just so much bravery in that. So yeah. Very interesting week. Thank you.
We'll go to Miss Sally.
Checking only ever everyone. Um, I can like come on. Because I tend to talk too much. Um, yeah, I well. I actually had an up buddy call first with Larry. And then was Linda and I was pleased to actually connect up with Linda and the home department. I seem to go back just where
all right. Yeah, I still working on family. And that's pretty much it. All right,
Larry.
I had a wonderful Buddy Call with GE. And it's been a really wonderful week, lots of empathy circles, and I think I've said this before. I love him. But the circles
I've heard that once or twice, Bill.
Yeah, sorry. Well, we missed our buddy called we'll make it up next week. And that's fine and I've been working on the empathy game, and had a really nice strategy session on Thursday with Jonathan and Krystal and Sally. And keeping my nose to the grindstone. Thanks.
And Jan.
I had a nice Buddy Call with George, you heard a little bit about it, and, and passes. And thank you, George. And I had a wonderful empathy circle with Larry, we're doing ethics and empathy, conversations that matter. And we introduced the wisdom theme to how to act. And it's really lovely. And then there are some challenges. Not everyone agreed that it makes a difference how we act. But nice this coming week, I'm looking forward, we're doing kindness.
MSD J.
Yeah, I had a really great buddy phone call with Ruth. I really loved it. I've been in empathy circles with Ruth here and the training. But having a one on one conversation with somebody is so different than being in a circle. And I just love the way that she was able to kind of like, share a little bit about who she is, and at the same time, kind of bring up larger, more important issues. So we had a really great and very efficient Buddy Call. So I was very pleased about that. I went to Larry and Janice, about the act, how do you act? conversations that matter? It was very interesting. I don't know what Jana means about how some people think it doesn't matter how you act, I don't remember that part. But it was it was really great. It's, it's nice to be with people and just, you know, talk about these things without judging other people. And I use empathy circles. I use the concept of empathy circles, and all of my relationships and all of my conversations. And I have a very problematic relationship with someone that I used to live with. And I still have to have interactions with him for various circumstances. And it only takes like two seconds for him to become a bully or him to become abusive. And I have to try really, really, really hard, you know, not to go there with him. And so I practice just, you know, listening and reflecting back and being 100% there for him. And it's actually kind of changing him a little bit. He's actually saying, like nice things to me. And thank you. And I'm like what? I've had a relationship with him for I don't know, long time many many years. And he's never said thank you before so thank you empathy circle people.
All right, Miss Linda.
This week is been normal. Continue to have senior moments. Thank you, Sally for reaching out for the Buddy Call. And I enjoy my buddy calls will fall Sally. This lady has many facets to her. To her personality or her world. She's it's always interesting talking to her. And Thank you Larry for reminding me that I'm supposed to what I'm supposed to do today in the session. So all this good. I know when I leave here. I'm going to I have some errands to run. I am going to buy a fan from my front door that says no solicitation. Because just now and when they have a ring doorbell they don't use the ring doorbell they just beat on the no not big beat on the door, you know, and I go to the door ready to have a confrontation of my novels like so we'll see. But I'm always good. Alright, we'll go to
Yeah, I had sent out a email about the invitation to take part in the visioning empathy circles for the retreat center, the empathy center that we're setting up in Santa Barbara. So we held two of those this week and the one on Friday. I'm trying to develop a process to harvest for better harvesting of the ideas that get generated. So we started before we even started the circle since everyone knew the process. had everybody write three ideas to begin with. So we had it down on paper. And then once it was down on, you know, on a Google Doc, when we did the everybody shared in the circle, we could document then add to those ideas. And then at the end, we went through and did a quick review of it. So this is like taking empathy circles into more of an idea generation and harvesting sort of process. So it worked really well. So I was really pleased with that. So and you're all welcome to join those circles, as well in the following weeks. Yeah, thanks.
Before I go, did I miss anyone? Yeah, okay, join me this time. All right. My check in is still set we have I get to empathy. But he calls this week because I didn't do it this last week. But more empathy for me. I also got to use empathy in an argument with my kid, but with my husband, I use it with my kid pretty regularly. With my husband and I in conflict like that we I said, Look, I'm not going to reflect it directly, I'm going to take anything, where I it sounds like I'm taking on the language out and rephrase it for how I heard for you owning it, and hearing it reflected back. You know, it's just we already all know this. I'm preaching to the choir. But golly, it's impactful. It's impactful. So yep, real life application, also over here. And, you know, any week where you're arguing with your spouse, or your partner, your family, there are life challenges and sounds like I'm not the only one out there with life, liking all over our life, right. And I'm gonna pass it on. Thank you for the checkouts. Welcome back, everyone. I'm going to pass it to Linda and Larry.
Oh, all right. Welcome to the feedback. And then there, we can share this, we basically have two questions. The first one is what to do if the speaker needs a bit longer than the allotted time, because they are talking about something very emotional, and important. I have a response written and I'll go over it. But Linda, I'd like to turn it over to you for any any thoughts on that question, if you'd like to share on that.
I guess what I want to say is, don't let the process interrupt the purpose of the communication. And so if that happens in a circle, the facilitator can let the person finish the thought and maybe go a little longer, but not too much longer, if you know what I mean. And just say, your time is up, but you know, we're gonna let you finish. So I think if you actually let the group know that, you know, their time is up, but you're gonna let them finish because you feel like they have something important to share, then that's okay. So you just have to balance time know your room and respond to the emotions that you're experiencing, in the group yourself.
Exactly, well said, Linda, thank you. And my notes I wrote, The timer is not a hard stop, allow the speaker to complete their thought received their reflection, and be fully heard. They will usually get another chance to be the speaker again, if there is more to share, the purpose of the timer is to represent equanimity, or equality for all speakers. And what's alive in you is not a clock. Right? So be flexible. And having said that, we also want to be mindful that sometimes a new speaker will have a tendency to go on and on and on. So do use the time side as a reminder of equanimity for all speakers. And I think that covers that question pretty well. Just looking at any hands up or anything with further suggestions.
I'd like to add one thing is that I let that happen. Last year, sometimes I don't even remember. But the person I let them finish because I could just tell something was going on with them. And she actually emailed me the end of last year thanking me for letting her get that out and be honest with you. I don't even remember her Oh, doing it. I know I did it. But I don't remember her and what the issue was, but it just surprised me to get that email out of the blue. And it had been a while. So sometimes people just need to be heard.
Thank you, Linda, great example. On this question like all of these, I'm reminded of what Bill was saying. And that is, you know, sometimes if I let somebody go on a little too long, or not long enough, I'm going to be criticized, no matter what I do, I'm going to be criticized. So that will happen, there will be criticism of whatever decision you make. So this is just something that kind of comes with experience. It's not exactly a hard and fast. We do try to represent equanimity using the timer. And sometimes, you know, someone does have something they need to get out. And that's the moment to let it happen. So the next question is, what are the most challenge? What are the most common challenges? That news? I'm sorry, there's a hand raised.
I think it's a very fine line between the mutuality and Blooding smile, speak longer. Sometimes it's best to have them in that safe container of the minutes that we have allotted. Because if too much comes out, it's really hard for them to get themselves back together. So I do think the fidelity to the circle is important. And yes, let them finish their thought and get their reflection. But I think it's healthier for them to be part of the process of equality and mutuality.
Yeah, it is a fine line. Thank you, Kathy. And the next one is double check. No other hands up, right. Okay. What are the most common challenges that new trainees identify as experiencing? Ironically, I wrote down the timer remembering to use the timer. And new participants not being familiar with the empathic listening process is a challenge for all of us, we're all going through that challenge. And it takes practice to learn empathy, and to relax in the empathy circle process. Linda over to you.
I would say, as a new person, a new facilitator, when you when the speaker is not when the person is reflecting is not actually reflecting what was said. And you have that urge to jump in and say, you know, it corrected. And so you just have to find that time to let the speaker know that somebody heard him. And it's a facilitator, you can say, you know, thank you, Linda, I'm the listener. And I also would like to say that I heard Cara, say, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and just real, a little snippet. So I think that's going to be a challenge for people when you don't think that the listener is actually reflecting what the speaker is saying. They're not getting it.
Thank you, Linda. And now I believe we turn it over to DJ. I hope I got that right.
Did we have another question?
Was that three questions are just to the to.
The third one was how to manage any interruptions in an empathic way, and what kind of self care is needed? That's not a question for me how to do it in an empathic. No. Okay. You know, you just be treat people the way you want to be treated. And, you know, I try. My deal when I mediate is the rules are set out in the beginning. And I've told this, in several circles, the rules are set out in the beginning. And then when a person interrupts you know, I'll say, remember the rules. We all agree to that everyone would wait until it's their turn. So I know you have something to say. And I'll take it from somebody that was in a group last week. I thought it was real nice. After they responded to the person that was interrupting they said, and can you make your mic? You know, so there's just treat people the way you want to be treated and don't embarrass them. And don't chastise them. Just find a way to remind them that these were the rules that we agreed to these were this was the process that we all agree we would, you know, use to get this done. Thank you, Linda. That's my two cents.
And when I hear that question, I think that was from the previous session. But when I hear that question, the challenge to me to empathy is what I would call, you know, the same thing that goes on in all of our lives. And interactions with human beings. Whenever we get that amygdala hijack, that shuts down our empathy. So the the way to come grounding yourself again, for me is just take some slow breaths, so that the amygdala hijack fades away. And then we get our prefrontal cortex back online. So we can think empathically and creatively and to practice that whenever we're challenged whenever the amygdala hijack kicks in, practice, grounding. Yep. Now I think we turn it over to DJ, is that right?
I think Dee has to hand race. Oh,
just for time, we should hold those questions. It'd be good if you can post those questions into the feedback form because we're right at almost at the time to go into the breakout room so the discussion can keep going and going. So DJ, just want to keep us on track for times.
Okay, so today, we will devote all of our time in the breakout circles to giving you time to practice facilitation. And the context is that there are new people to the process, but you do not have to go through the how to, if you don't want to, you can if you want to, but if you don't, it's optional. So this is more about practicing and addressing the challenges of the design. So each facilitator will set the challenge level they desire that could be none, low or medium. Only one trainer or trainee will give challenges and this is decided at the beginning. When you get to the breakout rooms. The facilitator sets any topic they wish and what is alive for people. The time will be three minutes the facilitator is the first listener and deals with the challenges. We will end our breakout rooms with 30 minutes to debrief in the main room
Okay, so we're ready to go into the end it was also the those instructions DJ just posted. So we have the breakout rooms so be four people to a room with the trainer and the trainee and two participants. So we have build trainer Kathy trainee facilitating the room with Jonathan and D as participants we have Larry trainer, Jana is trainee with Jennifer and Sally as participants so you get the divide the time in half there's just two participants Linda in room three with DJ as the trainee Linda's trainer with George and Alexandra as the participants so you'll each get half of that time to do take part and then the last room is an trainer with when the being the the trainee room facilitator Cara and Ruth in that room and I'll be in that room as well recording that one since everybody was okay with recording in that room. So here we go we have an hour and a half and I'll send about a 10 minute notice if I remember when we come on try remember don't always do it sometimes it's a little late when we get back heads up before we come back to the full group. Okay everyone see you there?
She be here and George and Alex. So there should you should be moving to another room. Did you see that button Alex?
No and I haven't been given In the breakout room option down the bottom yet
strange assigned to
try living
yeah okay, this is it.
We've got two groups, I think. Oh, welcome everybody to this breakout room. We've got Ruth and her twin. And yeah, so for the purposes of this breakout room and is the trainer and I'm the trainee and Cara and Ruth for the this breakout room will be the participants. Do you do Cara or Ruth, do you have any questions about how we're going to proceed? Okay, do either of you want to go first so you'll have 30 minutes each to facilitate a circle with your own question and your own level of challenge. Cara or Ruth, do you have a preference?
No. Preference?
No. I'd rather go second actually.
Okay, okay. I'll go first. How
can I invite you? What level of challenge would you like Cara?
Still a medium challenge.
Okey dokey. Look forward to your circle that you're going to facilitate. For the next 30 minutes over to you. Come
on. We're doing 45 minute rounds with we're splitting the time is that correct?
I thought 30 minutes because we need to do feedback, but maybe we'll do maybe we don't need 15 minutes for feedback. So Oh, Edwin, did you want to say something?
Oh, there's three participants. Right? So you need to find three minutes.
It's I thought we only had two participants.
There's Oh you're right. Oh, strange. Okay. Unless Unless you're right No, no, you're right. You're absolutely right. Just ignore me that forget the guy this knows nobody's talking about you
told me to come participant Edwin, I'm cool with it. You want to go first?
I'm trying to manage all these rooms and I don't know how you do I don't know how you do it either.
Okay, relax everyone. And did you want to say something?
Yeah, just check with you. When do you happy to be giving the challenges yourself?
Thank you for asking. I'm very happy. Yes. Thank you. I value the experience. Thank you. Great, but thank you for asking. Cara so should we say 35 minutes because we don't need 15 minutes then it gives us 10 minutes for feedback so 35 minutes Cara and then Ruth when it's your time is 35 minutes so you Okay, a car to keep the time and such like
I am unless somebody has one of those screen pop up ones in which case I will totally tag on you but mine did not work the way I hoped it would so I will keep it the old fashioned way. Just so we all know so we're not doing the full on open but just I'll give it 30 seconds morning before before and a pause if we need before time comes up. There's my time button. Haha fancy fancy. Okay. And are we okay with doing four minute rounds? Since there's not so many of us? I feel like that will give us a little more to it. Okay, and let's set a topic today's topic will be I'm gonna jack hands How are you enjoying the nature or whatever is alive for you?
I didn't catch that. Sorry, Cara. What's the topic?
What are you enjoying in nature? Oh, okay, whatever is alive for you.
Okay, shall I pop that in the chat for you Kira or?
i All right. And as always, the person hosting will start as the listener I would like to invite somebody to choose to be the speaker for me
Bruce will be my speaker. Alright, I'm listening.
Well, I'm what am I enjoying in nature? Well, funny, you should ask that. I have got a kind of nature diary that I've started this year. And the exercise we do is three good things in nature. I don't know if you've heard of it. Just write down three good things. Yeah, I'll stop there.
So I heard the So it's fun to you that there's the topic because you actually have a practice that you're doing on journaling about nature and you write three things that you like.
Yeah. I've just started it this year. It's very cold here. And, you know, nature's sort of just starting to sprout little things. Like we've got daffodils and snowdrops and stuff. Not flowering.
You've got daffodils already, Ruth, we haven't got them in the north yet. Oh,
Winnie, I love that question. But it's Ruth Turner. Focus in our circle, thank you so much when you meet yourself.
I don't know if I can ignore that. Now. I must just say we haven't got flowering but boded daffodils.
So I hear that your, your season is changing. And you've just started this journaling this year. And just now the buds are starting to come up.
That's right. And yeah, it's difficult. Sometimes I don't go outside, it's been really, really cold. And, yeah, I've just not, you know, I've been working from home. And I've just not felt like going out. So I have to use my imagination a bit more.
For here, it's really cold over there. And that doesn't incline you to wanting to be outside. So you've been using your imagination grow outside.
Yeah. But I really appreciate this exercise, because it feels like it's kind of infinite, never, never finish. Writing down. Three things that are good about nature is endless.
I hear you really liked this practice, because it's sort of endless. Forever. You either you start with three, but you can't really stop writing down the great parts of nature.
Yeah, and I think that, you know, you could probably turn them into haikus or some sort of very short poems if you wanted to, if you wanted to get lyrical about it.
And I hear that you are thinking you could take it even further say make it lyrical and do a hike.
Yeah. I don't know what else to say about I mean, I can help
you with that. You know, I
love that you are such a participant, but again, we're gonna let Ruth have her formative and you'll get yours too. I promise.
Could you go ahead and ordering I wanted to have my say, why can't we just discuss like normal? Oh, we
will, you will get your return. But that's how it works is so that everybody can get their tune turn. So that's what we agreed on at the beginning. Now in this particular moment, we're pretending
Oh, well, I'm not sure about this.
Well, that's okay. You can try and lean into the process today. And if you don't like it, you do not have to come back. Well, this is how we do things here. So I think you'll really enjoy it when it's your turn.
Okay,
thank you.
Yeah, yeah, I was just about to say yes. Thank you, Wendy, for adding in some interest there. Yeah, there's not. I don't feel that there's an awful lot more I can say about this. At the moment. Nothing's being sparked. But yeah. I was gonna say something actually, yes, I was gonna say, I'd quite like to. I mean, the most dangerous predator, or the largest mammal that I get to see in real life is probably a fox. So it would be nice to see something a bit more exciting at some point.
I hear that you weren't really sure if there was anything else to say. But actually, you'd like to speak into existence that you would like to see a fox or something bigger sometime soon. That would be excellent.
Yeah, I actually said I do see foxes. And I'd like to see something other than foxes.
But you said you do see the foxes but you'd like to see something else.
Thank you. I feel fully heard.
I will then become the speaker and choose someone to listen to me. I will ask Miss Ann, would you be my listener?
Cara love to listen to you.
Live in nature. So I'm gardening I have this this escape well, because I'm in the basement. So the window is one of those like if there's a fire it's actually an escape hatch kind of spaces.
So you went immediately to Gardening and pointed out that in your way Your ark that you have, you're in a basement. So you don't have a garden as such, but there's an escape well, with light coming down to it.
And I, I love hidden garden. So I'm trying to make it into a little hidden garden, but it also has to still be an escape room. Which is a whole different challenge than I've ever had in a garden before.
So your intention is to turn it into a hidden garden, but you have a restriction, which is challenging is still needs to be an escape route. Yeah. And here's some excitement in
you. I'm really excited about it. And I, I feel like, like so often in my life, one aspect like gardening and a little wheel well, it's such a reflection of everything that's going on in my world.
Yeah, and something you wanted to say was like, when you have something like this about gardening, you see that it actually reflects the whole of what's going on in your life in a way. Yeah,
so I have all of these, these little gardens that I'm working on, continue the analogy. But there's roadblocks because I have to be able to make sure that I am accommodating the roadblocks, but still creating gardens.
So what you notice is that, of course, there are lots of little, you have lots of little gardens. But I might say that there. It's like having lots of little roadblocks, which you need that life throws up and you need to accommodate those. Yeah,
that's a good thank you for the reflection. Hey, Wendy, can I ask you to stay focused and be present with us? Hi. I love that you are here, will you stand with us and just stay present and help hold the space in this circle so that you can have your turn to?
Well, I was gonna wonder when that would happen. You know, it's been a long time that I've just sat here. So I thought I might as well just check my messages. You know,
I appreciate that sentiment. But would you commit to being here with us?
Well, I guess
but I leave that thank you. Okay,
and
yeah, so my garden, you know, it's it is a reflection, not unlike an empathy circle. It is a reflection of, of life with practical applications.
So I noticed that after you're dealing with a challenge, then that you've gone back to your topic of the little gardens. And it's a bit like life having to deal with this. Whatever it is these challenges.
Life, right has a tendency to life all over our life, all the time.
So it's like this just life happens. And so there's always that tendency for life happening in any situation. So you see it as just dealing with whatever. Yeah, it's happening.
And I think that's the magic part of the empathy circle in general is that it allows you to accept the life life part of life that whatever anybody else is going through, just is and still move yourself forward.
And this is one of the things you find quite magic about empathy circles, it enables that life is going on is life with everybody in everybody's lives. But at the same time that happens at the same time as moving on yourself.
Yeah, I feel fully heard. Thank you. It is now your turn to pick a list.
Thanks, Cara. So Wendy, would you be Melissa please?
Oh gosh.
Well, I'm not really sure if I could if I can do that very well. So would it be okay if I stand out you know, if I sit this one out and just hear a few more people how that works?
Well, I like you to listen to me please, Wendy. I thought I could choose anybody I wanted.
You can but if Wendy is uncomfortable, we do want to make sure that this is a safe space for her. But I know Wendy that you're super excited to be able to have your turn to share and this is how you do that. So if you can reflect for and then it gets to be your turn and your words will get reflected.
Okay, give it a go. Please be patient with now or you know, lots of senior moments don't always get a chance to remember.
So, for me that and so if it's my turn And so about nature, I I've got these four huge beech trees in the garden where I am at the moment. And we've had the tree surgeon come in and cut back, the lower small branches to let a little bit more light into the house and garden. But actually, I'm feeling really quite sad, I'm grieving really, for the beauty of these beech tree branches that hang downwards. And she asked, create, like this magic, natural woodland space underneath the trees.
So you're sharing with us that you've been having some work done on four beech trees in your garden, which you love, you love those beech trees, and you're missing the fact that now the brand, the lower branches of the beech trees are not, although it's given more space and more light into the house and the garden, it's not, you're missing the, the effect of the beach leaves the beach branches.
And I think they'll never again be doing that beautiful kind of light, shade and rippling leaves. And I'd love watching and seeing them and just enjoying them, because all of the branches will be higher now. Or the vegetation, the leaves will be much higher.
Yeah, so although you wanted this, this work down, you're sharing that, actually. And I detect a note of kind of regret on one level, because you'll you'll be missing the light. And then the sort of, I don't know, the creative aspect of seeing those leaves and those branches playing in the light. And yeah,
you know, you're and I have some guilt as well like interfering with nature and interfering with these trees. But the reality is, they're very close. They're too close, really to the house. And they've got a very, very big.
So you're, you know, there's a kind of duality in your response to having this work done that, yeah, the trees, the branches are too close to the house. But it's changing your relationship with those with your beech trees, and you're interfering.
Yeah, and the other thing about beech trees, I love beech trees. And that the thought for to more than two things, but one thing is that the new leaves are really, really soft, and really beautiful green. And when they're just newly out, I've always enjoyed holding a leaf between my thumbs and blowing and making a wonderful kind of whistling noise, or like an owl.
So you, you know you have a long standing love of the beech trees, not just these ones, but beech trees generally and you've enjoyed when the leaves are newly out when they're still green, where they go kind of coppery color of actually blowing and making the sound of an owl with the beach Lee.
And the other thing about beech trees is they make beautiful hedges, which hold their leaves for a very long time in the autumn. And in the winter. They're the last tree to leave to lose their leaves. And so they always provide a really dense, beautiful hedge.
Yes. So for you the beach hedge, it's just magnificent. You just love that. The fact that they're the last things to lose their leaves, often they don't keep their leaves for a long, long time. So yeah, you really do appreciate beech trees, beech hedges. Thank you,
Wendy. I fully heard.
Thank you
for sharing
it. It's your attorney speaker to pick a listener.
Last Oh, my goodness. Okay, I've got to pick a listener. Oh, wow. Oh, how on earth do I pick a listener? That means I'm trying. I'm favorite. You know, I'm trying to pick a favorite. That's really hard to pick a listener.
I'm fine rather than focusing on a favorite Island to pick some new house and had a chance to speak recently. That works for me, but you may choose whatever makes you happy.
Okay, Edwin, would you be my listener?
Sure. Here, I do hear that you're struggling with who to choose as your listener.
Thank you. Okay, so nature. Yeah. Wow. So fortunate, you know, so so fortunate considering how many species of plants, animals, etc, are dying out. I still feel I live in an area with a great rich tapestry that nature is providing.
I'm hearing that you feel fortunate that you're living in a very rich nature area, calling it a tapestry nature tapestry.
Yeah, and for sure, there aren't as many bird sounds, or as many birds in the garden, I think as they used to be when I was little, definitely fewer. And I try and also look on the positive side of what we still have rather than what.
So you do notice that there's less birds in the garden than there was when you were younger, but you try to be positive and just appreciate what you do have.
Yeah, and because we bought a brand new house, and there's they're still building on the estate, there are just so few birds because there's just too much disruption.
So there's a lot of construction going on there for this new house. And it's maybe scaring the birds voice or maybe that's why they're not there.
Yeah, but the live 15 minute walk from the beach. And it's quite normal to see a barn owl and some row do some deer and things like that. So you know, I do feel
very fortunate. Yeah, you just close to the beach. And on the way there you're seeing owls and other birds and just why now? Okay, went out. Just came out the same house multiple times. I mean, yeah. That you feel fortunate to see those birds on your walk. Yeah,
I'm currently down south, you know, just been down in Cornwall, to the Eden Project, which, yeah, wow, talk about nature. Phenomenal, phenomenal project, just such a joy to be there.
And there's so kind of a project there. It's called the Eden Project, that you're really kind of excited and feel privileged to be able to be there. Go there.
Yeah. So it's some somewhere I've wanted to go for you. They took an old quarry. And they've turned it in these great big biodomes. One for the Mediterranean type of climate in the California type of climate. And one said the rainforest and yeah, just you know, climates from all over the world. Just an amazing project.
Wow. So you're, there's this project, you're explaining the project that they just create different environments on this old quarry about different places in the world of California or whatever is different. It's just very nice.
And they're going to be building one up in the north of England, not, you know, where I live up in more come. That's one opening in China, actually, the Eden Project. They're having, I believe about one in every kind of continent, and it's, it's very inspiring.
Yeah, the this project is very inspiring to you. And they're spreading them around the world, China are planned and other places too.
Yeah. And I think more than anything, it just reminds me of again, what our responsibility for actually looking after what what is there.
So this is just reminding you the that we have responsibility to look after nature and what we have.
Thank you, Edwin. I feel fully heard.
Okay. I'll speak to Ruth. In terms of nature, for me, it's mainly just going for walks and running. So I we have a bike path here and I just go out and walk or run there and just like to, you know, blooming trees now. It's very nice.
So yeah, your experience of nature is through walking and running. And there's a bike path near you and stuff is blooming already.
Yeah, in December, I got a call Old and then couldn't run so it wasn't getting out. And then it was raining in January, just like the whole month of January has lots of rain here in California. So I didn't get out much so that haven't had that, that connection with nature as much as I probably need.
Yeah, so you're saying that you miss the connection? Because over two months, December, you had a cold and January it was raining. Yeah, so it's been a long time since you've had that been able to connect with it.
And December I was it the retreat center that were the property and I got the best room in the house. You know, and it looks out over Santa Barbara 180 degree view of all of Santa Barbara in front of me, like way up looking down at all, Santa Barbara. And beyond that as the ocean and beyond that as some islands you know, the Pacific coast and islands. So that's like, that's pretty it's that's pretty nice. There. Yeah. Review.
So you were at the retreat center in December. And yeah, the view you've got the view back to the best room and the view get like 180 degree view of Santa Barbara and you can even see the ocean and the islands in the ocean.
Yeah, so that's very nice. And it's it's 35 acres would probably be you know, it's half that is like 15 hectares, you know, around that 1516 hectares of just sagebrush and oak trees and stuff like that. Snakes
there's a lot of nature, you can see this 35 Heck tears of sagebrush, wherever that is. Oak trees and rattlesnakes.
There's a creek there, and a canyon called rattlesnake Canyon. So it's supposed to have a lot of rattlesnakes, so haven't seen it yet, but people have mentioned seeing on there.
Wow. And there's a canyon nearby called rattlesnake Canyon. You haven't personally seen any. But you've heard that there are some?
Yeah, yeah, that's it. I feel fully heard
if we still got time to go on, three minutes.
And we're able to do three more rounds, I think.
Oh, three more rounds. Okay. And would you be my listener? Please?
I know you've just been I'd love to lose.
Thank you. Yeah, I don't know. I just thought we had finished then. Oh, yeah. It's really nice to hear about all these different experiences of nature and when people was Yeah, we were saying beech trees I thought wow. For in the garden. It's unusual just to have one actually. Yeah, I'll stop there for a bit.
Yeah, so you kind of taken by this idea of to us talking about nature. And the beech trees have made you kind of go Wow. Because I've even for in a garden. It's you know, almost, it's unusual. It's a lot to have one. Yes.
Yeah. And I was picturing the the retreat center with all I'm not sure what sagebrush is, but it's kind of a nice I'm sure. It's a nice green sort of bluey green, maybe. Yeah, the lovely hot weather. I was picturing that. These unusual LIS slightly dangerous snakes, but that's okay. That's an IT that's part of nature too, isn't it?
So you also you've been thinking about what's being said about the retreat center and the sagebrush and you don't actually know what it is but you imagine it to be a kind of bluey green. And the other thing that's like the heat the heat is kind of impressed your made an impression on you. And the weather and also these rather dangerous snakes are being part of nature.
Actually, I'm not really sure sagebrush is really green at all. I think it's actually really a harsh thing that can go tumbling around in the desert. So I don't know. I think the camera thing but she's muted.
What do you see here? have a way to tell somebody. So we stay muted, unless it's our turn to talk. And the only two people talking right now is Ruth is speaking and then Anna is reflecting so the rest of us are staying muted.
Oh, okay. Thank you. I'm sorry. I'm really sorry. I interrupted Ruth and and I'm so sorry.
Oh, that's okay. Yeah. Have you finished? Yeah, Ruth, it's
your turn to speak. And you're, you've been? You've some
moments as well. Yeah, I don't know what I was gonna say. Um, I, I was actually thinking that I will. There's a strong possibility that I might never go to the United States and see these places that you're talking about? Yeah, I'm not sure if that's okay. Or not? Yeah. I took a vow a long time ago not to fly. I mean, I would get a boat. I don't know how likely that is.
So I noticed that you were a bit sort of confused, perhaps, after the interruption, and thought maybe it was my turn, but then gone, kind of recenter yourself. And one of the things is you think there's a strong, strong possibility that you'll never managed to visit us? Because you've made a vow not to use not to fly? And the chance of going on a boat is a bit small.
Yes, yeah. It just seems a bit more expensive and less available. I must just confess, I did fly three years ago to go to Sicily. I just thought I really want to go to Italy. And I love Sicily. I just want to see it. So I did because it was cheaper than getting the train. But having flown I feel actually I don't want to repeat that experience. I'd rather save up. Yeah. And, and travel slowly by train.
So you think that you made this vow quite a while ago, not to fly? And part of the partly that's because it's so expensive. And so going to think that you won't go is because it's so expensive to go on a boat. And three years ago, though, you kind of decided not to fly you did go because you're really keen to see Sicily and go to Italy you flew? Because it was a lot cheaper. But you've decided after that, that you're not going to repeat that. You're just going to save up and if you want to travel.
Yeah, thank you. I feel fully heard.
Thanks, Ruth. So Edwin, do you listen to me? Okay. Okay, so nature. There was something I wanted to talk about.
You're trying to remember what you wanted to talk about if you forgotten.
Yeah, there were two things that I thought that would be interesting to explore that.
You had a couple of things, two things that you want to explore. Is this not this just disappeared?
Yeah. And what are one of them? Anyway, I've got one of them. There's a photograph here. That was taken in the 1970s have a house that my partner and I built and it's totally made of wood and recycled materials. And I love it. It's beautiful. It's in a three and a half acre field. I can't translate that to hectares, but I got to know that land really really well. And even though I haven't visited that piece of land for many years, I still feel like I know it intimately I know the shape of the land and the difference in the soil and the trees and the trees have grown it just felt feels like it's part of me
Wow Yes, you really missed this property this way you built your the house yourself and the you just know the the the land so inside and out. You just know the quality of the ground everything about it. It's like it's almost it's just part Have you and you just miss it? Do you have a picture of it there that you're looking at?
Yeah. And I've been looking at it, while I stay here in the last two days, and actually really enjoying it had a magnificent view, it was on the top of a hill. And you could see for miles. So you'll see lots of fields, and trees. And I feel like I belong on that land. I want to be there.
Yeah, you really feel like you're belonging to that land. And you you want to be there and it's just had beautiful views of the Hills was on a hill. Yeah.
And I remember to that, as a child I was so familiar with, with the all of the area around where I lived as a child, because I just walked or cycled everywhere. And so it was very familiar to me. And I don't have that depth of connection anymore to where I live, even though I've lived in where I am now for over 20 years.
So when you the place where you lived as a child, you walked it, you rode your bike around it. So you really knew it intimately. Yet now you've lived in a place for 20 years, you don't have that same type of connection as you do with your childhood, home and this other place that you were just mentioning. Maybe some regret that you don't have that connection.
Yeah. And I feel I want to re somehow do something about that. So that I'm more connected to the land, because somehow Yeah, I guess it's roots, it's real belonging. We, like have the psychological need to be belong. But it's possible to belong to the land.
You want that feeling where you are now and you're just thinking of what you can do to have that sense of belonging to the land there and really connecting with it.
Thank you, Edwin. I totally had.
Okay, speak to windy
Yeah, what's coming up for nature, one of the things I really enjoyed about nature was going up into the Sierra Nevada Mountains, you know, we have really, you know, high mountains here and part of California, and it's very wooded, and I like to go fishing, I like to go out there and go fish in the rivers and lakes.
So you're sharing how you've always loved to go up into the high mountains of the Sierra Nevada, and you love being up there. And in particular, you enjoy fishing,
you take care of a backpack, you with all my food, everything would go up for, you know, three, four or five, six days or so and are just hiking and that's kind of like what Dan's talking about that sense of really connecting with the space, you know, with the nature kind of being in it. And especially with fishing, it's like I kind of connect with the fish, you know, I try to think how they think so I can catch him you know, but you really have to, it's really you know, it's kind of interacting with them.
So you're sharing how you go up for three, from three to six days carrying a backpack everything you will need and during that time you're fishing and you feel you you you enjoy the interaction of trying to empathize with the fish and in the sense of feeling that you know what it's thinking so you can kill it.
Yeah, it's not just like hey, I want to kill you. It's like yeah, I'd like to kill you and eat yours. I do eat it there's just nothing like fresh caught trout you know, put it in aluminum foil. You know put some spices in there put it on the hot coals you know and kind of cook it and it's just so good just so fresh trout out of the river.
So you're sharing how you you're not just killing it the killing sake you're killing it because you you enjoy to eat its flesh. You enjoy putting it with Spike specific condiments and putting it in foil on the fire and cooking it so you there's nothing more delicious than freshly bought trout.
Yeah, it's so good. And then just you know, it's just the strain your backpack. It's like really hilly so you get really tired and just you know trudging and so exhausted and just you know that physicality. Have everything of the of the struggle, kind of the new vistas, and it's out there, there's no roads, it's just all, you know, kind of raw trail wilderness trail.
So you're identifying with the rawness of the situation, the tiredness carrying everything with your backpack and charging up the hill and the enjoyment that you get from that exertion and feeling very much kind of warm with the situation.
Yeah, and I've told Joe and my partner I said, When I die, you know, take just cremate me take my ashes, and just sprinkling me on one of those high mountain rivers, you know, streams that you start with those streams, let me sort of float down and become, you know, get back Yeah, become fish.
So you're sharing that, you know, you've told your partner that when you die, you would like your body when it's cremated, and then the ashes sprinkled into the top of one of these streams, these rivers so that they they carry on down and you become fish food?
They feel fully heard. Yes. Thank you.
And I think that is our time. Before we have so we can do review.
What, Tara, how do you think went?
Challenges are hard. So the genuinely they're just as hard to get as they are to give, which is a little validating. Because it was really hard to give them but I forgot how hard it was to receive them. And I probably for the same reason, because we have to push the challenge. And most people even when they push once you push back, they kind of settle. But we have to push again and again. So hopefully I didn't make you feel picked on in quieting you back down. And hopefully, we were able to get back to topic for everybody else. I think that's the hardest part. How do you recreate the space after an interruption? So I'd love feedback from everybody on how that felt on your end so that I can adjust on my end to make it more comfortable for
everything. How did the challenges affect your experience at the empathy circle?
Near everyone else?
No, you car? Oh,
it totally disrupted it like it does. It just like sucks you out of the space. But you have to recreate that space all over again.
Yeah. Thank you. Ruth, can I invite you to give some feedback to Carl?
Yeah. Well, yeah, I just agree that it's very discombobulating when it's your go to I mean, it was very funny, very entertaining. But it's almost like Yeah, I did feel like I was pulled away. And I was waiting for you to come in Cara. And I thought, oh, what's she gonna say? What's she gonna say? But I thought, yeah, I mean, you're totally polite, and even very affectionate towards Wendy, you know, saying, Oh, I love that you're taking part. But yeah, I thought it was really diplomatic. And I hope I can do that when it's lighter. Yeah, well, it's nice to have a longer, a longer circle actually felt like we could really get into stuff. Yeah.
Thank you, Ruth. And could I invite you to say how it was for you? How do you feel Kira did?
Thanks, Wendy. I think you dealt with the challenges really well. I think that a lot of them came your way. It was kind of one after another. And you You kept like, a real kind of presence and pleasantness with you about it was just one. So I think you dealt with them really well. And kindly and empathetically. I just thought, at one point, you went a bit too quickly, for my liking, to saying, Well, if you don't want to do this process, you don't have to come. And I felt a bit like that was a little bit too soon and potentially feeling a bit rejected and that would impact or I felt like that impacted on me and my level of safety a little bit. So I try not to go to that point. Unless it had been, you know, like, quite seriously disruptive or persistent somehow. That would be my tip about it. And at one point, I thought, I'd love you when to keep eye contact, it's because summertime you were looking down while you were just generally facilitating the circle. And I would like to hear it had a bit more constant presence. But actually, I did notice that you that it changed and it improved, that I felt more later on that you were really there and holding it, even if you weren't directly involved. So well done. But again, I think always I always think practicing the how tos and giving me information is invaluable. And I would always recommend to give it a go because you establish the ground rules. And it makes it so much easier to deal with any interruption.
Thank you. Edwin, could I invite you to give feedback?
Yeah, I enjoyed your challenges that you're giving Wendy thinks like he was like you're getting into them, you're coming up with the ones? Yeah, like, I'm like to see your alter ego. I'm like that, too. It's kind of fun. You know, it's just not. I'm usually trying to be nice and everything, but they just kind of let that little other side out as literally, I just enjoy their their good to better humor in it. So but the only thing I was thinking in terms of how I try it with the little thing to add is, you know, Kara, is the reflecting the person, give them a little bit of empathy. Like, yeah, we really, I hear you have some points that you want to share, we do want to hear those. And then direct people into the process again, which you did, you were always directing. But it's a little bit of empathy in just to reflect back so that they know that they've been heard. And it kind of softens, like they relax a little bit, Oh, somebody's hearing what's important to me, and then directing them back. So it just creates a little bit of a little softer quality. So I found that really helps to lessen sort of modeling the empathic consciousness. So otherwise, yeah, it's just the topic was really great. Doing that nature. We enjoyed talking about the topic. Yeah. So that's it.
Thank you, Edwin,
can I just add something that I got? Yesterday's car? Yeah, I would say you had your little signs for showing the time. But I always advocate people hold it there and hold it steadily there. Until May, you know, see if you can get people to make eye contact when they've seen it, rather than going up and down. Because there's quite a high level of concentration when you're reflecting back. So it's easy not to notice. Something that's there briefly. So just hold it steadily. I liked the way your sign wasn't too big. So you could hold it in like that kind of position. And keep it there without it being really disruptive. Yeah. Yeah. So, but again, I felt that during your facilitation that improved. Just you in naturally, kind of getting a bit more clearly with it.
Thank you. Wow, Cara,
you did so well flip in EQ. You did really, really well. I love that, you know, you're positive nurse. You're very jolly, very upbeat. I love that 32nd sign. I haven't seen that before. That was a really great idea. It's gives her a time to sort of slowly you know, right, it's finishing. That your your jolliness. And your positivity was such at the beginning that I missed the question. You know, I had to ask to repeat it. So, yeah, to certainly to put it in chat. And you know, to make when you actually give the question to be really clear, is helpful. That I thought you handled the challenges very well, except for the first one. And the first one, and I know you'd be nervous. I were all nervous doing this. So the first interruption I found really abrupt, and I think it's when you said you know, would you mute yourself, please? You know, I just I know it worked last I think Linda was saying that she found that helpful in the group. I actually found it very well. I think it's bit what Edwin was just saying that idea of empathizing before we educate. So I Yeah, it was just that phrase, you know, it's the equivalent of saying please shut up without input, you know, stretch yourself so for me, it was very strong as the first kind of response all the others I mean, you were just so kind and you know, I hear what I'm saying about that one that you don't have to stay say you know that Yeah, I think we have to Yeah, maybe maybe get back to some of the values of the empathy circle before we start saying and I think you did with some you know, the idea of mutuality and such like so a focus on the positive which you are so good at including the values before you know, the kind of the more you don't have to be here kind of thing. But great job I would hate to have somebody like me in an empathy circle. So you did really really well any more feedback and you want to come back on anything Cara was okay
just repeat to make sure I heard everything because guys i i never not love feedback and I appreciate you all being so kind but the more brutal the better. Because that's how I get better. So I loved and point out like maybe don't invite them not to come back. Fair. I did so I tried that the mute yourself thing and it does feel kind of snarky, I think it's I think the right person could pull that off but I don't think I'm that right person. I love the idea of reflect back So had I just said hey I hear you say blank and when is your turn I'd love for you to speak more on that or and just I think obviously we know it works so if you lean on the thing you know that works. Okay, so much notice I'll lean on the thing that you know that works use the empathy to bring back to the empathy circle Did I miss any of the other ones
well the thing about the signs and was the
sign Yes. What I figured out I could hold it down here so the 30 seconds I like to just bring up and bring back down as a like a stir Hey, and then the whole the time when the time comes that's I will make sure that I do that excellent Yes,
thank you timer timer anything else I
missed? Pat yourself on the back. You did good job. Good. Thank you so much Cara. Okay Do we before we start with you because do we all need a moment to just kind of you know I don't know stretch exercise whatever we need Yeah, and you're muted but I hear you saying something and Yeah
Could we have a quick vibrate please? Yeah for you lend the room for two hours I need to allocate
two minutes Thank you?
How're you feeling Ruth's Everything okay.
Yeah, I have a hard hard one to follow that actually because he was very good. Just wondering whether I should try and run through the the rules again,
the How to Oh, yeah,
you have to just for my own self.
Very welcome to do that. Yep. Very welcome. Can I just check before you do that? Would you like some challenges?
Yes, please.
Would you like me, you know, what sort of level of challenges would you like?
Yeah, mediums,
medium. Okay. Good. Thank you.
Thank you so much. Well,
and you have a question that you were gonna have this the focus? Oh,
topic. You mean, we can do what live? Or talking about procrastination and making decisions?
So in the How to your Will you introduce that as a question? Yeah.
How long have you Yeah.
35 minutes. I think we said, how, how long have we got to go?
We've only got 33 left.
Okay, so 30 minutes, because we need to give you that doesn't give long term
or like 25? I have? Yeah.
Fine. Fine, too. Shall we do it? 25 minutes, and then there's time for feedback?
Yeah, I suggest, how long would the terms be? 4333? Just so we get to go round lots. Okay, three minutes. Okay. Shall I go? Yes, please, Ruth. Thank you. Okay. Welcome to the empathy circle. My name is Ruth, and I'm your facilitator. today. I'm just gonna go through the rules in case you need to know. Yes, so we have the basic structure with active speaker active listener. And then whoever is not speaking or listening, you are silently listening, you are definitely paying attention and holding the circle for everybody. Because it will be your turn very soon. So the speaker will have three minutes blocks for the speaker. And I will volunteer to be the active listener, firstly, to just model how we do it. So after you have reflected back and participated as a listener, it will then be your turn to choose to speak and to choose a listener. If you're speaking, do remember to pause and let the listener reflect back frequently. Because if you go on too long, they're not going to remember everything and you might not feel as heard. And you'll have to repeat yourself. The active listener, you can use your own language to reflect back what you've just heard. We do ask each other we're going to ask each other is that empathy circle. So let's try really hard not to judge, analyze, give advice. Let's just respond without reacting as far as we can. Okay, and enjoy yourselves. So today's topic will be whatever slide for you. Or if you need a topic, be around decision making and procrastination. I'd love to hear people's thoughts on that. So I'm going to nominate a speaker. And would you be a speaker please while I listen?
Yes, certainly, Ruth. Thank you.
Sorry, before you start, I'm gonna hold this up when it's time to stop. After three minutes. Yeah, it's a soft stop so you can finish your sentences.
Procrastination. Well, I think maybe I'm an expert on that. I wish I wasn't. I wish I didn't know how to do it.
I agree with you and I'm the same. i
Hi, this. I know this is a juicy topic. And we all want to, but remember, when it's AMS turn. We're all just listening. And then I'll It'll be your turn later. Okay, so if you could just mute yourself. That'd be lovely. Thanks. Oh,
I understand. So I can't just speak when I want to speak.
No, I'm afraid it doesn't work like that. Otherwise it would be a conversation and we can Do you know you can have conversations throughout most of our lives, but this is an opportunity to really listen and to really communicate deeply. And to also take it in turn so that it's a very fair process. So now it's an turn. So would you mind listening? Please, Wendy? And we'll give you a couple of extra minutes.
I'll have to think about whether I mind or not, I'll get back to you on that thing.
All right. Thanks, Wendy.
Thanks, Ruth, can you refresh that, but I already? Or do you want me to repeat?
Yes. You said, you said you wish you didn't know how to procrastinate.
Yeah, I think I'm very good at prototype customizing, and I wish I wasn't. I have trouble making decisions. And so it's always I want to make the right decision, the best decision. And when I've made that decision, I'm confident that that's the way I'm going without any doubts, which means I procrastinate left, right and center.
Right. So you saying that you have difficulty making decisions? Because you want to make exactly the right one? Yeah, it has to be the right decision, I have the right outcome. Therefore, you procrastinate all over the place.
And as I get older, I found I find that I had this good ability to kind of weigh things up and assess things and think about different angles, and then make my choice, my decision. But I have less capacity, it seems less brain capacity to do that. Looking at lots of possibilities. And so it hinders me from getting on and making a decision at all.
So you're finding that as you mature, you're, you're more able to look at all the different options and possibilities and outcomes. And this makes it harder to narrow it down and just plump for one decision.
No, it wasn't so much that it wasn't that change of becoming more difficult. Because I'm kind of no more. I used to be able to hold in my mind, lots of different things, elements that I'm considering. And now I have less capacity to do that. And so I'm not able to do I don't seem to get to the point of feeling I've researched something well enough to have the confidence to make a decision.
Ah, okay. Yes. So Sorry, I misunderstood. So now it's it's a question of not being able to hold all these different possibilities at one time in your head and you might now feel that you haven't researched properly. Therefore, decision making is is harder. And thank you. That's our great now Wendy. And you get to choose a listen up the three minute
No, I've just been the speaker and you've just been a listener. So if you if you're now the speaker and choose your listen,
I get it. Yeah, thank you. I bet not choose Wendy is my listener. Gonna go? Anyway. Kara, would you listen, please? I don't know what I'm gonna say. But I'm sure is it's three minutes, so I'll come out with something.
Here, you're not sure what you're gonna say. But it's only three minutes. So you got this?
Ah, yeah. So why did I choose this topic? I was having a conversation yesterday with a fellow procrastinator. And we both realize that there's a lot of things we love to do. And you know, there's so much on offer in life, that it can be difficult to narrow it down to just a few things and we've only got time to do a few things.
So I hear why this topic came alive for you today is that you were talking to a fellow procrastinator and one of the struggles you have is you have so many things you love to do that you end up running To option itis.
Hmm, yeah, good way of putting it. And then somebody else I was speaking to today said, Well, if you're not making a decision, then you are using up a lot of energy just going from one to the other. He advised that the best way to find out if it's the right decision is to make it and get on with it.
I heard that you as you were having this conversation, when it came down to is the best way to make a decision.
Sorry, I've just Oh, yeah, thank you. That's well reflect. I just noticed Wendy's eating a packet of crisps. We didn't specifically talk about food, and the empathy circle, but it is a little bit distracting Wendy, if you wouldn't mind. Having a snack later. That'd be great. So thank you, Kara was saying
the best way to go about deciding what you want to do is to just do
with it. Yes, that is what the person was. The friend was saying to me today, so I'm just going to give myself the time up. And it felt like a weight had dropped off my shoulders when he said that. Yeah.
So when you heard that it felt like a weight was taken off your
shoulders. Hmm.
Yeah. Thank you, Cara. I feel fully heard. And would you choose a listener please?
Yeah. I will speak to windy Will you be my listener?
Yes, with pleasure.
decisions and procrastinating I can literally talk about this ad nauseam.
You're sharing your connection with this topic. procrastinate, procrastinating, you could talk about
it is particularly alive for me this week, because I managed to procrastinate clean my entire house rather than so twice so I could avoid doing what I had decided to do.
So you've noticed this week, and this is very topical, because you cleaned your entire house as a way of not doing what you needed to be doing. Yeah.
And it came up this morning on a car, right. So my folks are in town and they're staying in a hotel, we went for hotel breakfast and on the way there. We looked up the term play it by ear and what it means and where it came from.
I'll pause sharing that your parents are in town and staying that tell and you went for a hotel breakfast. And you were reflecting on something or other and I really can't remember what it was. And I'm really not sure I'm really that interested, actually. But you know, I can carry on and try it.
Yeah, yeah. Well, let's, let's try and keep the empathy going here in this circle. Yeah, remember, we're not judging what anybody says we're trying to take an interest and just reflect back that. That's your practice. Here. Okay. Thank you.
So when we looked up, play it by ear. It was a it was results and progress over process.
Okay, so you're having breakfast with your parents who are in town and you're looking at the phrase
play it by ear. Oh, that's the one play it
by ear. And it was to do with results and produce results. So for progress,
results, and progress over process,
results and progress of process. Okay, this was a definition of play it by ear results,
which I found really fascinating because I decided that that's probably my biggest problem and why I procrastinate after I've made a decision because I get stuck on progress on process and stops my progress.
So you found this definition very helpful in reflecting on your own process. You feel that this is exactly what you've done.
I feel heard. Thank you.
Thank you, Carl.
Do you know what to do now? Wendy? No. Oh, now it's your turn to speak and be heard by one of these lovely listeners,
you can ask someone. Thank you so much. Edwin, would you be my listener? Thank you. Yeah. Okay, could I please take a moment to just refocus myself, please?
Because I noticed, Ruth, when you were giving the instructions, there was no mention of silence and pause. And, you know, I just wonder what the role of silence is in empathy circles.
You noticed that Ruth didn't give any instructions for silence or just curious what's the role of silence and you're taking a few moments of silence there to looks like we connect with yourself.
So, one, in terms of procrastination, I do find that silence can be a great help in refocusing.
And in on this topic of procrastination for you, silence can be helpful.
So if I, you know, find myself, you know, doing the equivalent of sharpening the pencil, so when I was doing my homework as a distraction, or, like Cara was mentioning about cleaning the house, actually, if I just come into myself into my body into my, my calm space, it can help to get back on track and refocus in terms of the distractions.
So in terms of a, there's these distractions, like Kara has cleaned the whole house, and you would, as a student do sharpening your pencils, what you found was really helpful, was just being quiet and connecting with your feelings sounds like settling into your own inner self.
And certainly, I find, to a certain extent, with decision making. A bit like Anne was saying, sometimes I can do so much research before making the decision that I no longer need to do the thing that I was researching. Because I like if I'm planning something, a trip was something, I've researched it, research it, I no longer need to go on the trip, because I've kind of mentally done it.
So you've noticed that if you're like planning a trip, and you just research your research, or research it that you don't even need to go on the trip anymore, because you've done so much research of the experience. And I think that's the time. I just noticed the time. That's
very quick. Is that three minutes? Wow, I thought that was very, very quick, three minutes.
So you just feeling it was a quick three minutes and maybe a little disappointed with like, more time.
Thank you, Edwin. I feel thoroughly heard.
Ruth, speak to you.
Yeah, great.
Yeah, I love all these topics people bring up it's always fun to explore these new topics. So yeah, enjoy it.
Yeah, you're really enjoying the topics people are bringing up. And you love them.
And for me, it's not so much procrastination. But now that I'm taking on this big project, it's like, wow, there's so much to do. And it's more of a, an issue of documenting all the things that have to be done. And then prior to prioritizing them, and having some sort of a project management sort of approach to deal with all this work that went with this retreat center.
Yeah, so for you, you're saying it's not procrastination is not the issue. It's how to implement everything and manage all the little things that need to get done. Project management, yeah,
but what I hate is about project management when you kind of plan everything out. So the creativity of the planning and the organizing, and then the actual doing this is like a bit boring. It's like something there's it's just like sort of tedious. And so I on one hand don't like to over organize, either because it kind of takes the fun, some kind of energy or some kind of imbalance I'm looking for I don't I don't have it. Totally worked out.
Yeah. So What I heard you say that, you know, you can can plan down to a tee and get really organized. But when you actually come to do it, it's a little bit boring because the the fun or the spontaneity is gone out of it.
Yeah, there's some kind of energy to it my partner, she's like, really into making lists. And for her, her joy comes from kick, knocking something off the list. It's like Joy, joy every time something gets off the list. So she'll go through the tedious part of it, and then kind of celebrate and stuff getting off of her list. And also having sort of control of the all the tasks. So I guess there's this whole emotional landscape of, you know, dealing with these type of things. That's that I'm really needing to learn better now with, you know, big organizational stuff.
And yeah, I see you noticing your partner, who is very good at making lists and ticking them off and she has a lot of fun ticking them off and satisfaction. You wish you could learn how to do that to be more creative. Around the implementation?
Yeah, I feel heard. Yeah, my time's up, too.
Yeah. Thank you. So Wendy, would you be my listener? Dare I ask you? Can I trust you? Wendy, would you be my listener, please? That would be a privilege and Ruth. Ah, great.
Oh. Oh, I think she's just dropped out. Perhaps when she was pressing her time or something, I think she must have left the meeting.
Yeah, that was all of a sudden.
Yeah, it was accidental. I'm sure she'll rejoin and admit her back in. She was doing really well. I think the track the challenge with giving challenges when it's in roleplay. I can't help myself giggling you know, like, I want to laugh. Yeah.
Yeah. It's a bit self conscious. Yeah.
Yeah. Very. Yeah.
Hi, Ruth, you're back. But you're muted.
Yes,
sorry about that. Yeah. Well,
we'll press wrong buttons at wrong time. But charge my own.
gave myself a difficulty. Oh, yes, that was really interesting hearing about all these different attitudes and skills towards making decisions. Yeah, that reminded me of another conversation I had with somebody about different people like different. It comes from a thing called Dragon dreaming, which I'm not 100% familiar with.
I'll just pause there. So you found it very interesting, listening to what people have been saying about decision making. And you're reflecting on another conversation you've had someone recently about Dragon dreaming and not 100%? Sure what it is.
But it's definitely to do with four different leanings. We have like some people love to plan, and to tip the year to take the list off. And some people love to dream, some love to actually do it, which I find very hard, and more of a planner, and some love to celebrate. I think that's what they say. Yeah, to sort of celebrate achievements.
Okay, so you're sharing that as far as you understand it. Dragon dreaming involves four different approaches to decision making, planning, lots of lists and such like the dreaming about the activity, then actually doing the activity. And then other people who like to celebrate the doing so these four different approaches?
Yeah, yeah, it's really interesting. It'd be nice to get a balance between all of them. Yeah. And I think that's my time. Well, it is, it is my time.
So you're sharing it with you'd like to get a balance of the planning, the dreaming, the doing and the celebrating? You'd like to get a balance of that in your life and then your time.
Thank you, Andy. I feel fully heard. And this is our last round, I
think. Well, I was just wondering, actually, although I'm very happy to I think maybe have only got 10 minutes left, maybe it's good to close the circle and to give feedback. So if that's okay with you, Ruth. Okay, so can I ask you, Ruth to reflect on your experience over the last 25 minutes? How do you feel? How do you think it went? What did you learn?
And it's, yeah, it was. It was good. I mean, I, to be honest, I think it's hard being a facilitator because your mind is elsewhere. And you're still drawing joining in as well, at the same time, and then I was a bit tense about all the internal, you know, what, what were your interruptions were going to be and whether I was going to come across as just rude or impatient. Yeah, because I can see, you know, I can see, yeah, it's, I can see how difficult it is when you do get somebody who is messing with the, the structure not messing, but you know, not going into the flow of it. Yeah. Yeah, but I mean, you know, yeah, this was probably, you're all very reasonable people. So I mean, I'm sure it could. It could be a lot more difficult than today. Yeah. But yeah.
Sorry. Sorry to interrupt. How do you feel you you handle the challenges through?
Um, yeah, it was well, I think one of them I didn't even notice for a while the crisps. But I kind of made up my mind beforehand, to to. Yeah, to not get narky about it. Yeah. Yeah. To be chill.
Thank you, Ruth, thank you so much. Hi, Laura. Would you like to give Ruth feedback? Yeah.
I thought you did a fabulous job handling them. I don't know if you know that you do this, but I am going to adopt a behavior you have where you were like windy, windy, windy. And then you reflected and talked with her about it. But it was like, hey. And that was so smooth every single time Jack. And I think that's a brilliant thing. I thought you did a really good. Well, and you taught me something. So thank you very much.
Thanks. And oh, you're muted there.
Thanks, Ruth, I enjoyed your facilitation. I enjoyed your, your presence and your calmness, and I had confidence that you were going to deal with whatever came up and happened and you did. I liked the way that you you went over, you use the the chance to introduce the method and brought in quite a lot of things into that. I think that there's always room for practicing that and improving it. I'd also a bit in there, you use the term active speaker? Well, it's just is a bit confusing, because we have a speaker, we have an active listener and a silent listener. So I always try to use those three terms and say something about each. But it was it was good that you wait, you did that. And I felt that you dealt with the challenges. Well, and in particular, the one where the crisp packet was going because you were the speak of them. And in a way, it wasn't distracting from what was happening from you speaking and your listener reflecting to you really. And so not paying giving it much attention I felt was appropriate and fine to deal with it afterwards. If if that works. Yeah. Yeah, I didn't you little sign. You had time, please. I think, yeah, I don't actually like your pls. I think that for some people, some generations. Yeah, everybody knows, youth might think everyone knows what pls is. But we have people from different cultures, different continents. So I think that is not a good idea. It's potentially they won't know. It's just possibly confusing. Yeah, so just time I think is fine. Yes, thank you very much. And I like the topic.
Right? Okay.
Yeah, just confirm everything everyone else said it was the active speaker. Sometimes for some reason, sometimes that active speaker gets out there. And then other people see other people use it, and everybody starts using it. And it's just simpler. It's just the speaker, active listener just sort of simplifies it. So it's good to keep reminding doesn't like take off as a as a norm. There was, there was a place in terms of the reflection of the disruption, where you were, I thought was really good, we tapped into the values of all we want to keep a fair process, right. So that really, that I just thought, Oh, that's good. Because it felt good is a listener to it's like, oh, we want this to be fair. That's why we're doing it. And it's fair for me. So it is a silent person here. So that that's always powerful to reflect back with, you know, where people are. And. And, like, there was one post, like, just reflect back. You know, if somebody interrupts you just reflect back, oh, I hear you have something to say we want to hear what you have to say. And you'll get a chance to say anything you want. So you kind of like emphasize anything you want. You can say, whatever, you're totally free. And I think people kind of sense like, Oh, I'm free to say anything. That's really great. So that's, and then in terms of with the Chris just had an idea that if I was the speaker or the facilitator, and something like that was going on, as the speaker, I might have actually brought it into what I was saying. So I might have said, like, Oh, my see, when they are they're eating the crisps, and it's really irritating me, or distracting me. And then your listener would reflect back. Oh, Wendy, you know, eating the crisp is sort of distracting us is, you know, so you kind of get the message across using the process. And you're sharing a true honest feeling if that's what's really happened. So it's trying to use the process as much for doing any kind of correction and, and sharing. So yeah, but what everybody else said to just felt really good topic was really a lot of fun. Yeah,
thanks. Yeah. I think you did such a great job with you really did. Thank you. I just your your approach is so gentle, and empathetic, you know, you're kind of walking the talk, just in the tone of your voice and such like, and, yeah, just your presence, your sense of honesty, you know, at one point, you know, oh, God was you use? It was like, Yeah, you're just honest. And that was great. I think, in the how to I love the way you said, oh, you know, enjoy it, enjoy it, you know, bring in this process of we're here to enjoy ourselves, you know, it's, it's it can the How to sometimes can get a bit. You know, I mean, the fact that I think even you use the word rules, you know, these are the rules. And so using the word joy was was great. With the the challenges that I loved at one point, you said, you know, this, this is an empathy circle. So let's try not to judge, you know, that that really helped me bring me back, you know, to the whole point of being there. Yeah, I love the topic. And that I think that's the first time I've done an empathy circle when it hasn't been as a set as a question. And I, I think that's interesting, you know, just to have the concept. But yeah, all I think we're about to break out in 58 seconds. So yeah, I personally prefer a set question, because it gets me going deeper, rather than just the concept, but I love that you introduced Oh, thanks, everyone, very much indeed. And I really apologize for all the interruptions to everyone stops is going a bit deeper. But thanks so much
gratitude for your interruptions. Thank you, Andy, for your facilitation, your interruptions. It's very helpful for everyone. And this is a lovely group I just said it's just a real lovely to be part of this group with you all.
Yeah. Likewise, likewise. Thanks, everyone. And yeah, thank you. Oh,
hi. Hi.
Something. Oh, we
must be the main room.
Yes, we are. Gone. You don't have to leave your breakout room
to us.
Welcome back, everyone. So we're going to debrief from our circles. Let me just put in the chat what we'll be talking about in our one minute each debrief what were your learnings, insights from your experience in today's training, and please keep it to a minute or less. So we all have time to share, share your most important insight. And if you want to share more, you could probably do that in the feedback form if you like. And saw Colin each person so we can move along a little quicker. And so I will call on George first.
Yeah. So it was quite, quite challenging for me to have the challenges because usually, I had this hard times to stopping people way. Or interrupting or face someone. So that was pretty great. TJ did a really great job and I had this really great experience to to find have to do this. So thank you for
great. Well, you're smiling when you said that you Mr. Had fun.
Sally?
Um, well, I did learn that I didn't pick a topic. Um, but actually, it really became fun. And I loved it. And so the topic kind of diverged into kind of financially things of mycelium and South Park kitties. But good to go. I had a great time. Thank you.
Yeah, thank you, Sally. I DJ.
Yeah, this was one of the most satisfying empathy circles I've ever had. It was just satisfying on every level emotionally, spiritually, you know, intellectually. Two great questions. Just amazing questions, amazing. People. Alex asked about being a human being. And George asked about what's important about empathy. And those were just really great questions. And Linda, of course, is always a pleasure to learn from. So thank you. It was wonderful. Thank you. Jana.
Was the facilitator for the circle and with Larry and Sally and Jennifer. And we had a wonderful empathy circle. And I do love empathy circles. And I think it was unanimous. Everyone loves empathy circles and our empathy circle. And it was very precious. And we shared a lot of things. We basically spoke about what was your life for us? And, and it was both serious and tender. And moving and very lovely. Thank you.
Yeah. Thank you, Jayla.
Alex.
Yes, I always get a lot out of these Saturday afternoon sessions. I think I probably learned that I feel ready to go out there and amp up my facilitation in a bit more of a formal or structured way, like ready to go. I think DJs challenges were funny, both, but good. Good practice in preparation, and I think being able to handle them reasonably well is a sign to be like, Okay, I think I've got this down pat. And now I need to kind of put it into practice in a less familiar environment. So that's my challenge for this week.
Right. Thank you, Alex. De Yeah,
we had a riveting empathy circle on you know, the same kind of issues about being a human being, um, and and all of our different philosophies came up, and it was riveting, and Bill gave some good challenges that were fun. And I've presented with some of the hardest challenges me so that gives me empathy for other people, you know, allowing them to have their challenges in the moment. So we had a good time. Thank you.
Thank you, D.
O Ruth.
Yeah, we had to Yeah, lovely time. Quite a gentle circle. I benefited from Cora going first so I could hear her feedback and then take that on board. And I learnt among other things, the challenge is my fun too. I learned that if you're the speaker, you can and someone is challenging, you can use the process to kind of deal with that within your term, which was Yeah. Interesting.
All right. Thank you, Ruth. Jennifer.
We had a really
great circle and great facilitator. A lot of fun, and like Janna shared, some touching and poignant and vulnerable, beautiful things are shared. Just that space that was created from the structure of empathy circles, you know, I think allows for all the mycelium to connect.
Thank you, Jennifer. Jonathan.
So today I opted. And I took took advantage of not having a challenge specifically because my challenge was using a foreign clock. My challenge was using a an ironing board as a table and dealing with the logistics of taking your computer to another place and having to do the facilitation. And we had a wonderful, very wonderful discussion that ranged from Carl Jung to chat GPT and I was very happy to be here today.
Thank you Jonathan. Cara
I'm gonna pull Larry love here I love him to these circles. And I found that I love it the most when I'm not getting challenges or getting them but I learned from them every time either way. I did I did get reminded to lean into the empathy process when handling a challenge because we already know this that it works so lean into what you know works. And I just had a really good time I thought it was Ruth said it well. It was just really gentle. We just had a really soft warm like I'm just in such a good space now. Thanks,
y'all
Thank you Cara.
Windy Thank you. Well it was the time went far too quickly. You know, just getting into the topics but yeah, the top the topic of procrastination and decision making was it yeah allowed me to go quite deep in in thinking about that. I was the one giving the challenges and I really I can't I find it really hard to do them like giggling you know it's like it's just this role acting but yeah, they Kira and Ruth handle the challenges really, really well. And everyone and and, and gave really good feedback to everyone. So yeah, it just flowed and was just too quick.
Yeah, thank you, Wendy. Larry
Yeah, we just had a lot of fun was really sweet empathy circle. The challenges were fun. Facilitation was great. It was a blast and I still love empathy circles.
Right, thank you. And yes, so
for me, I loved we had two topics for each 111 was about procrastination and decision making and the other one was what we enjoy in nature or connection to nature. So I love both of those topics. And having Cara facilitate and Ruth facilitate was a treat And and I enjoyed Wendy coming up with lots of challenges and enjoying doing the challenging and Edwin's wisdom about dealing with challenges by using the process, and referring people to the empathetic process was a lovely reminder. And I love that that's true.
Thank you, Ann. And Linda.
It was it was a relaxing circle, it was good. DJ did a great job facilitating, making sure we were all on the same page before we got started. We were concerned a little bit about, you know, how much time we had and whether we would have a lot of excess time, but we didn't it all just flow together. So it was it was great. It was and there was some the questions, thought provoking.
So that was good.
Thank you, Linda. Edwin.
Yeah, we had a really lovely group was just the pleasure to be kind of in everyone's presence, still feel very warm kind of feelings from our group. I liked the learning, there was just the learning that we do, I really enjoy seeing the learning. And again, that was mentioned about the topics is that chance to go into explore these topics that that people come up with, I get a lot just being a chance to talk about nature, my experience with backpacking, talking about procrastination, my experience about you know, managing project management and so forth. So just having a space, you know, to share that is just a lot of fun to have a group to talk with about that and just keep learning and sort of deepening the process. And they get to share some insights was really good. And just when these great the challenges that she threw out there, I can just see their her mind thinking of different ways of disrupting, and just enjoyed seeing that.
Yeah, thank you. Oh, yeah. My experience was similar to what everybody else is saying was very easy, gentle, heartwarming, fascinating topics. So it was just, and I'll use the word we were talking about synchronicity, we were all experiencing the same thing. So. So we will wrap up this portion of our call, and I'm going to turn it over to windy. Thank you all.
Thank you so much, Kathy. So, Bill, Larry, Linda. And as trainers. Do you have any final comments, please?
Have one?
Oh, I was gonna come to you. And, Bill, Larry,
just have a quick thing, because we were talking about trying to redirect people without getting into a power struggle. And so one of the things that I found effective and this is a tool, use it or not, that's fine. Is that I'll say if I correct you, or redirect you, it's not a criticism of you or your ideas. But just to keep us into the process. And that kind of takes it out of a personal way. It's just one tool that you might use. That's it. Thanks.
That's really helpful. Bill. Thank you. Anything from Larry and or Linda? Okay, Edwin, please your comment.
Okay, so our training has usually been five sessions, and I added adding another session, which we're going to be doing next week. So I just wanted to give you a little bit of a heads up, it's going to be sort of just a little taster of the empathy circle for conflict. Mediation. We're gonna Yeah, exactly. I see Kara that it'll hopefully allow a bit of spice, you know, more energy, different type of energy to the, to the empathy, circle practice, we're doing these monthly conflict. Empathy Cafe is with the conflict, peace building community, and we'll be doing that on March 4. And so we're kind of making the case for empathy, you know, supporting the peace building conflict mediation communities. And so, I'm adding this lesson so that we can sort of speak to that community as well as sort of have them come and join us and they'll be interested in a little bit of just a taste of the introduction to it. The Empathy circle for that mediation are a full course would be six, seven weeks. But so we're just going to do a little bit of a taster, I'll send some links about that to prepare you, I'd be kind of gentle with it, because this is a new lesson kind of developing it and just wanted to give me a little bit of a heads up about that. And I will send more emails, instructions and stuff. So keep an eye out for that. So that's it, just wanted to give that little heads up. Thanks, Wendy.
Thank you, Edwin. So let's review what we've covered in this session today. Everyone who wanted to practice facilitating a short empathy circle with an opportunity to practice dealing with challenges for those who felt ready. And we debrief the experience at the end of the empathy circle. And in terms of what is coming up next week, in Session Five, Edwin has just gone through that. And, you know, it is a new session. So please, you know, be gentle as he has just said, there is a survey feedback survey, which we hope you will take the time time to fill in. And that is in the chat right now. But it will also be included in the what assignments, and Edwin will kindly send out an email, one that will have the reminder about this feedback form, it will be with your empathy, he will list the empathy buddies for this week. And you know, if possible, if you can facilitate an empathy circle with family or friends, and there will be Yeah, there'll be lots of information in that email. So please look out for it. And we invite you to please post in chat now. Just one particular feeling or one word as a result of your experience with in this empathy circle today. Thank you Cara. Cara feels glowing Edward feels warm. Yeah, Kathy is hopeful. Bill stimulated John impish. Okay, thank you Jana. I love that image of you impish let's giggle together. And so you feel connected. Linda peaceful and Ruth peaceful. So yeah, across the ocean joining hands tweeners and George has strength that Larry happy. So yeah, and Jonathan grateful. So wow, it's time to finish. Can you believe it? Let's have the jazz hands for a goodbye. And thank you all and be safe.
