Micro dosing is a great entry point to develop the skill of psychedelics and that the more we become aware of these different medicines, these different doses and especially great providers who can help us navigate it, the more effective these experiences can be for us. Hello, and
welcome back architect Nation. I'm Enoch Sears. And today we're going to be talking again, with Paul Austin, who's a leader in psychedelic work, as we mentioned on our last episode, psychedelic work over the past few years has been revealed as a cutting edge modality for dealing with things ranging from addictions, trauma, to even high performance. And this is where a conversation comes into it today, which is in architecture, let's face it, you're faced all the time with creativity, innovation, adapting to changes we have things like aI who are going to be impacted the industry, we have big forces we're against in terms of humanity, climate change, geopolitical forces, there's a lot going on. And so it really feels that this resurgence of the benefits of psychedelics is just this brave new frontier that Paul was so kind to talk to us about last time, he's an expert in this field. He's impacted him and his companies have impacted millions of people through safe and effective psychedelic experiences. Through his company, third wave. He's been featured in Forbes magazine, Rolling Stone, the BBC, work life as well as Business of Architecture. He's an evangelist for integrating psychedelics with personal transformation and professional success. This episode is sponsored by Smart practice, the world's leading step by step business training program that's helped more than 103 architecture firm owners structure their existing practice. So the complexity of business doesn't get in the way of their architecture. Because you see, it's not your architecture design skills that's holding you back. It's the complexity of running a business, managing projects and people dealing with clients, contractors, and money. So if you're ready to simplify the running of your practice, go to business of architecture.com forward slash smart to discover the proven simple and easy to implement smart practice method for running a practice that doesn't get in the way of doing exceptional architecture. Hello,
listeners, we hope you're enjoying our show. We love bringing you these insightful conversations, but we couldn't do it without the support of our amazing sponsors. If you're a business owner, or know someone who would be an excellent fit for our audience, we'd love to hear from you. Partnering with us means your brand will reach over 40,000 engaged listeners each month interested in becoming a sponsor, please send us an email at support at business of architecture.com or welcome
back to the show. Thanks.
It's great to it's great to be back. I love how we record these back to back and then kind of dive into a different topic each time. So I'm looking forward to talking about getting into microdosing today.
Yeah, beautiful. I know, I was loved that. You know, when we do the back to back thing, which I do sometimes you kind of pretend like it's a new day, it's like to talk to you last time, like five minutes ago. So Well, first of all, I just want to acknowledge you, Paul, I didn't do that on the last episode, but just really acknowledge you for like, like taking this on. Because this is a new field very, very new. Let's face it, you got to be a little bit a little bit crazy to jump into something so new, right? There's a little party that's like, you know, as like I'm in for something big here. So it's definitely not something you don't want to take on. You're pushing boundaries. You're you're pushing, you're re educating. You're faced with misconceptions, which we talked about on the last episode, but just in case people missed that one, would you give us a brief summary of what psychedelics are some of the myths around them and then the realities of those myths? The truth for sure, so far, we'll
keep it short. So I'll do the really brief the really brief summary. So psychedelics came back on the scene in the 60s, LSD, psilocybin mushrooms, Ayahuasca DMT use of the most common psychedelics, they often at high doses are highly therapeutic. Some of them have been used for 1000s of years. And unfortunately, in the 1960s prohibition of psychedelics became quite prominent. There were over 1000 Clinical papers published on the efficacy of LSD in particular for a range of clinical conditions. But it became associated with the anti war movement in Vietnam. And for that reason, has been prohibited and illegal globally for basically the last 50 years. And it's unfortunate because much of the public education over the last 40 years has not been honest. It's not been accurate. It has been. It's, I mean, there's no other way to put it, then it's been a propaganda machine as it relates to psychedelics specifically. And what we know from actual clinical research is that these are not addictive. In fact, they help with addiction, that they have incredible medical data Oh, yeah, that's been established for well over 70 years, and that the stigma that exists around psychedelics, I think is quickly changing. In fact, just to stats that might help to land this 61% of Americans now support legal psychedelic assisted psychotherapy. This was a research survey that Cal Berkeley did recently. So the majority of Americans now support legal psychedelics, and the number of Americans who took a psychedelic has quadrupled in the last four years, which we would include you as part of that unit. So there's been a massive uptick of interests. And a lot of people are noticing that these are really effective tools. And I've just made it my mission as a as a human here to support the education and eventually integration of psychedelics, so people can benefit from using them in a intentional and responsible way. Beautiful,
Paul, tell us about how people can use some of these best practices for psychedelics and the different modalities. You talked about microdosing? What is that? Tell us how we can use these substances. And if we're interested in them some next steps that we can take to find out more about this world and have it help us. Yeah,
so I really view micro dosing as a bridge to accessibility, that taking a very low dose of a psychedelic two or three times a week for a period of one month to two months. It's something that a lot of folks can can get behind. In fact, I'll tell a brief story. You know, I grew up in a pretty religious and traditional family unit in Michigan, in the Midwest. And when I started to become interested in psychedelics, my dad who, like you, barely ever has never been drunk has never smoked weed, you know, just sort of like, does everything to the tee at church every Sunday works for a Christian college university. He read Michael Pollan's book that came out in 2018, how to change your mind. And he became interested in micro dosing and started micro dosing. And then about a year after that, I actually guided him through a high dose psilocybin experience. And for me, that speaks to the power of micro dosing that for anyone who's listening to this, who's like, I'm curious in psychedelics, but I might be a little too intimidated to jump in the deep end, right away, and go straight for, you know, the Big Shot, some people are like, I'd like to sort of ease my way in and take these micro doses, lower doses 123 times a week, and see how it makes me feel. And so that I think is important. And a lot of the benefits of micro dosing are similar to high doses, and that people notice they're less depressed, people have more energy, they have a better mood. Micro dosing, when done consistently helps to facilitate greater neuroplasticity in the brain, which is partly what we talked about in the last episode together. And the core difference is that micro dosing is done over a period of 30 to 60 to 90 days, it's a protocol, it's something you do over an extended period of time, a high dose therapeutic use is as you experience, it's a weekend, or it's a week long retreat, or it's a you know, one high dose experience. And you might only do that every six months to a year to maybe even two years, depending on who you are. Or you might only do it once or twice in your life and be and like feel like that's totally and completely enough, which is also great. You know, and so the the metaphor that I often use to describe this relationship, just to help it land a little bit better. It's like going to the dentist, you know, every six months, we go to the dentist, we get a deep hygenic clean, things feel amazing. And as we all know, every day we show up, we brush our teeth, hopefully twice a day we floss, you know, we use mouthwash, to keep the to keep the mouth clean. But things just naturally build up over time. And there seems to be a similar relationship between high doses of psychedelics, it's almost instead of a high, an oral hygiene cleanse, it's more of a deep spiritual and holistic cleanse. Mind Body Spirit is what I would consider it to be. And and then there's micro dosing or there's meditation or there's breathwork, or there's yoga or there's nature walks, or there's whatever the modality is that helps you to stay centered and alive. And vital. Those are the daily practices that we we weave in just like we brush our teeth every day. And I think that relationship that approach is helpful, especially for people who are new to this. Or, you know, a lot of people get into this and they do it too often. Right that, you know, they they fall in love with it a little too much. And so they're drinking Ayahuasca every week or doing mushrooms every two weeks. And that can sometimes just be a passing phase, right? Like there are some folks who do that in a year because they've been struggling or there's been a lot of challenges. But when it becomes too often, it also has some some downsides. You know. So I think these are to be used cautiously, they're there to be used with reverence, ideally, with some form of professional support. So that's a lot of what I focused on over the last three years has been training coaches, practitioners, doctors, clinicians, and how to work with psychedelics, and that, that professional support makes a world of difference as you experience as I've also experienced, having someone who is there to support you, who helps you prepare beforehand, who maybe helps you integrate afterwards, with different tools and modalities, that that makes the difference between just another drug experience where a lot of the insights and downloads are fleeting, and they kind of come through and then they go out, compared to an actually transformative experience where there are tangible and productive things that change in your everyday life, which I think all of us who are listening to this podcast can can resonate with, we're entrepreneurs, we're building the real world, reality does matter. And so we are always looking out for a tool that think that will make us more effective and more helpful for society for ourselves, our family and society at large.
How Paul, how was it I was a microdose, differentiated from like, from a macro dose or a larger dose, like what does it actually mean? That something's a micro dose?
Yeah, so it means it's sub intoxicating is the phrase that I am currently using to describe microdose. And some people would categorize it as being sub perceptual, meaning you don't feel anything at all, but then people get hung up and really confused. What I found is I feel it, do I not feel it? Do I feel it? Do I not feel it? Do I feel it? Do I not feel it right, and so actually can cause some anxiety. So what I tell folks is sub intoxicating. Maybe you feel things a little bit, but you're not intoxicated, you can do your sort of navigate everyday life as you as you normally would. It's about a 10th of a regular dose. So a typical micro dose of LSD might be anywhere from five to 25 micrograms of LSD, and psilocybin might be anywhere from 50 to 250 milligrams of psilocybin mushrooms. And like I said, that's done twice a week, maybe upwards of three times a week, depending on the protocol that's used. And what we always coach and advise people on is as you you set this perfectly, when you were describing your own experience, that this is a catalyst that this is not a magic pill. This isn't something that's to be done every day for the rest of your life, that there's a window of neuroplasticity, like we talked about before, that opens up within a micro dosing protocol, and that on our path of progress, development, growth, whatever it might be, it actually makes us it makes it easier to change behaviors. And behavioral change is at the core of every transformative process, you're looking at the sort of tangible and productive difference in your life. If you go to that seminar, go to that retreat, or, you know, do that breath work or whatever it might be, work with a psychedelic. And I think psychedelics do that better than I would argue better than almost any other modality that is that is out there. And as you've experienced micro dosing, and then mitigates that intensity, right? So with Clarivate, it's it's high dose, it's therapeutic, it's it's deep, you're going in, micro dosing is more like a whisper, whereas this high dose therapeutic experience is more like someone is shaking you to get the message and that can be intense that can be a lot to navigate, there can be challenging difficulty in that people can really go through it, it does require even you know, requires a lot of courage just to go through with it in the first place. And so I love the sort of pair in combination of what I call the skill of psychedelics, which is depending on the context, depending on the intention, depending on why you're interested in working with psychedelics, you know, this experience may be better for you compared to that experience a high dose might be better for you compared to a microdose mushrooms might be better for you compared to LSD, etc, etc. Right? So really looking at that, that sort of matrix of options. And then a great coach practitioner guide therapist should should know enough about the various medicines and the various dosages and also also other modalities that you can combine with microdosing or psychedelics. I love yoga with microdosing or I'd love to do sauna kind of cold plunge hot, cold thermo Genesis, I'll do body work, certain type of body work called roughing. With certain psychedelics, I do go on hiker doses. So I take a low dose of a psychedelic and go hiking. So I think if there's one takeaway from this, this conversation, it's that micro dosing is a great entry point to develop the skill of psychedelics, and that the more we become aware of these different medicines, these different doses, and especially great providers who can help us navigate it, the more effective these experiences can be for us,
Paul, what would you say to people who are like, Yeah, you guys are just a bunch of drugs? I mean, you did it the first time. And now you're going back every three months? And I think you're addicted to it. What's your response to that?
That's a great question. So one, I always point to the sort of evolutionary biology of what it is to be a human being. And I'm, I'm fully of the belief that there are certain practices that have stood the test of time, that are clearly helpful, essential, necessary for a human being to be happy, to thrive, to enjoy life, to be curious, etc, etc. I wouldn't say that has to be psychedelics, but it's certainly drugs and certainly altered states of consciousness that there is something deep within us as a human being that feels Come Come obligated, even to alter our consciousness in certain ways. It's very rare that someone hasn't drank like Mormons. Mormons are an exception, obviously, in American culture in terms of no caffeine, no alcohol, not right. All that not and certain Christian Christianity, traditions also have that, I think the Seventh Day Adventists are also quite strict in that way. But the vast majority people 95% of people curious about this, animals, elephants, monkeys, it's something in our evolution that that drives for that. So that's usually one thing I wrote in. The second thing I wrote in is I just look at the science of it. And just like, you know, science has shown that exercising more often might be bet is more beneficial and helpful. But exercising way too much could actually have certain negative consequences. Drinking water is another good example, right? Like we drink a certain amount of water because it's healthy. But if you drink too much water, it can be negative. And I think psychedelics are similar that we have longitudinal data on people doing occasional high doses of psychedelics over a period of time, and it's perfectly safe and healthy, and actually has a lot of positive and beneficial aspects to it. There's also data on people who do way too many psychedelics, and there's not, there's some negative things around that. But doing and having a therapeutic journey or dose every few months, even three months, every three to six months for a period of years. From the science and the clinical research that we have, it's pretty clear that the majority of the outcomes are beneficial. And that therapeutic support or coaching support is helpful as part of that process. So I look at psychedelic work, partly, especially with micro dosing more as a supplement. So just like I might take fish oil, or there's tons of great research on creatine in terms of its efficacy as a supplement, I really look at micro dosing as this is something that when I cycle on and cycle off, it's not something I'm doing every day, it's not even something I'm doing every week, I may take 234 weeks off even eight weeks off at a time. But I still do it pretty often. And I feel like and we've seen this in the clinical research as well, there's a physiological benefit to just strictly taking these low doses of psychedelics, just like there's a physiological benefit to taking fish oil, probiotics, creatine, even Lion's Mane, there's been clinical research on and so I would also look at specifically micro dosing and low dosing within that realm and aspect that physiologically helps with reducing inflammation, the substances are anti inflammatory, and inflammation is sort of the root of a lot of modern disease, and that they also help with neuroplasticity, as we've talked about prior
that what would you say about people who, they they're like, oh, yeah, I had a friend that did ayahuasca and they came back and he left his wife and abandoned his family or abandoned his business. What do you say about people who bring up those kinds of stories? What's up with that?
Yeah, this is, what's a good way to frame it. I would say a good parallel is like FTX. Right? And the reason I even mentioned FTX, is because in the crypto space as in any emerging space, you're there's there's it's an emergent space. It's new, it's exciting. It's cutting edge, and at times, it's hard to tell the We'll from the not real, the ethical and Integris actors from the not so ethical and Integris actors. And time is required for that to play out on a broader sort of lens and basis. And the reason I mentioned that is because with psychedelics, it's still quite early, there's still not a lot of great public education out there, we still have a dearth of really, I would say high quality Integris providers, although that's changing every day, more and more providers are being trained. And so the simple fact of the truth is, a lot of people who work with psychedelics don't have, I would say qualified professional support, to help them navigate what is oftentimes a very liminal space in their lives. You could also call, sometimes an unstable place in their lives, that part of the upside of what psychedelics do is they interrupt our default mode. And they introduce entropy and chaos, because oftentimes, as you as you even communicated, our lives become too orderly. And that becomes sort of emotionless and feeling listened to psychedelics are this sort of primordial tool that open up a capacity to feel, and you know, I'll do all these exciting things. Sometimes that just goes overboard, and people go way off the deep end. This happens, it can happen with Ayahuasca, it also happens with five Meo DMT, which is the toad venom that people smoke. And almost always, it's because they did way too much in a contained period of time, they did not have the necessary professional support to help them navigate that terrain in a appropriate way. And at the end of the day, there are still some changes that needed to happen needed to be done. So this isn't to say that someone going in take working with ayahuasca and then you know, a month later, three months later separating or divorcing from their partner, that it wasn't the right decision. In some cases, it is, in some cases, the difficult and extreme decision is the one that needs to be made. But it is quite commonplace that people will make decisions that they will later regret, because they've made them in a brief period after working with psychedelics. And so what we tell everyone that we work with is don't make any major decisions for at least 30 days after some very deep and intense psychedelic work. Because only after about a month has gone by Will the excitement subside, and then you can have that insight and download and still make a more sober level decision about how you want to move forward.
Beautiful. Paul, thanks for being on here with us today. And where can people go find out more about your resources and what you offer?
Yeah, this is this is a ton of fun, I'm glad we we got to do this. So the third wave.co, or you can just type in third wave or third wave microdosing or Paul Austin microdosing into into Google. But the third wave.co is is our website. And then if there are any people who are interested in doing work with us, we offer a coaching program with a high dose, psychedelic experience that's called Personalized psychedelic coaching. You can find out details about that on third wave and then I'm on Instagram and Twitter at Paul Austin. Three w. So if anyone is a social person here, send me a DM or no, I'm pretty active on both of those platforms. And I'd love to be in touch and answer any questions that you might have.
Cool. Hi, Paul. Thanks. And that's a wrap. Oh, yeah, one more thing. If you haven't already, head on over to iTunes and leave a review. We'd love to read your name out here on the show. This episode is sponsored by Smart practice, the world's leading step by step business training program that's helped more than 103 architecture firm owners structure their existing practice. So the complexity of business doesn't get in the way of their architecture. Because you see, it's not your architecture design skills that's holding you back. It's the complexity of running a business, managing projects and people dealing with clients, contractors and money. So if you're ready to simplify the running of your practice, go to business of architecture.com forward slash smart to discover the proven simple and easy to implement smart practice method for running a practice that doesn't get in the way of doing exceptional architecture.
Hello, listeners. We hope you're enjoying our show. We love bringing you these insightful conversations, but we couldn't do it without the support of our amazing sponsors. If you're a business owner, or know someone who would be an excellent fit for our audience, we'd love to hear from you. Partnering with us means your brand will reach over 40,000 engaged listeners each month interested in becoming a sponsor, please send us an email at support at business of architecture.com. The
views expressed on the show by my guests do not represent those of the hosts and I make no representation promise guarantee pledge warranty, contract, bond or commitment except to help you conquer the world. QRP DM
