Hey everyone, welcome to hosted. This is a podcast where we flip the script on hosts. They're always sitting behind the mics, asking all the questions, and now it's their turn to answer the questions. So today on the show, we have Eric Wright. He is the host of disco posse podcast. And also evangelist set right for turbot omics,
back before they call them Developer Advocate, so whenever we were, I'm a tech evangelist, I'm like old school.
That's, I feel like that is the best possible role to have at any company, especially a tech company. So I really look forward to digging into that a tiny bit. And to talk about the 215 episodes that you now have under your belt. That's
it's kind of scary when you say the number like that I like, oh, I guess it's a thing.
A lot of conversations.
Yeah, I'm gonna have to keep going. I think it's, it's fantastic. Yeah, it's been you know, you in the kit caster team are all say dominantly responsible for the success of this podcast, because the folks that you bring to me, and so, you know, massive thank you to you and Ryan and everybody, they're like, I think I did a thank you video once because I just like you guys sent me a really fantastic little gift box. And I like tried to list out all the names of the people that I get to interact with. And, you know, I hope the travel becomes kind of real again soon and I'm, I'm flying myself to Colorado and come and say hello, IRL as the kids say,
We love that. We would absolutely love that. And the feeling's mutual. We you know, as everyone knows, that listens to this podcast. We are a podcast booking agency, and every guest that we place on your podcast, you know, these are clients are going on 20 3040 podcasts and we get consistent feedback from those who go on to your show that you are so fantastic at maneuvering through the interview. It's always on everyone's top for the best show that they have have been on throughout the campaign. So thank you so much for putting so much thought and care into what you do. And disco Posse is such a fun name i It's funny, because when I when I'm thinking about it, I think of a disco ball. And then I just think of this like group of you know, this like solid group that's like posse, just like hanging out and like chat and underneath a disco ball. And then I started digging into your website, and it's a picture of a disco ball and a group of fellas on horseback.
Yeah, it's, it's one of those funny like backstory, things that I was used to, you know, I'm an early adopter of internet and email. And so I would always like have to flip between locations. And I would move around a kid right, I'm moving around like 1920 years old and no change providers. And you'd have to change your email address all the time, I guess sick and tired of it. So I had to pick a domain name. And one of the I said I need to pick something that's unique, and that no one else is going to fight over. And I was in a bunch of different bands. And one of them was called the disco posse where we would play like really heavy covers of disco songs. And we would actually open for ourselves and we had an original band called binary gods and I would open for my own bands just put on this like crazy. Yeah, and just play like you know wild cherry and and you know, chic and stuff. It was fantastic. We just had a lot of fun. And so I thought disco posse no one's got that one because Eric right as if anybody does a Google image search especially you're gonna see Eazy E with two nine millimeters crossing his chest right? I haven't got a hope and hack of SEO against that. So and there's an Eric Right, who is a Canadian mystery author. So even in in the you know, far north of Canada where I'm from you I haven't got a shot at getting my name out there. So I'm like but disco posse. You search that out? It's all me.
Know, it's so funny because I was actually in preparing for this interview. We we go we go back. But I wanted to dig in and see if there was anything that I was missing. So I did a search and of course Eazy E pops up and I was and I didn't even know that that was his birth name. His actual name. Yeah. And then I was like, Oh my gosh, so we all got a good laugh here at kick Kassar because I was like, great. Do you think there's like what's the association? It's just random, like but it's so cool.
I'm gonna have to get down I have to do a promo picture of me with like two water pistols across my chest or something.
I mean, you're almost there with your cover art right nerd life tattooed on your on your neck.
Oh, yeah, yeah, my so my friend and colleague zine Rashidi, he's a fantastic artists and digital artists and I just said, I said, I've got this crazy idea I wanted to do like this thug life, you know, image of and so I he's like, alright, he just says come over here we sit in the office for my company, and he just like He kneels down on the ground, he's like, just do that. And he takes his beautiful, you know, depth of field shot at my knuckles and like, 20 minutes later, I get this image and it says nerd life tattooed on my head. So it looks like I've actually had people go like, do you use cover up for it? And I'm like, No, it's not a real tattoo. I hate to break the fourth wall on that one.
Yeah, well, I thought for sure it was real. I remember when you first engaged with us probably like two years ago, I was like, that's really I mean, Eric's committed
nerd for life, or
share her life and your backgrounds in technology, your passion is technology, and disco posse, it features entrepreneurs, a lot of them in the world of technology, or how they might use technology in their company. So just give us a little brief overview of the evolution of disco posse and how it came to be and why.
It's so always I love hopefully making these origin stories known so that people can get like this stuff is the difference between me and every other podcaster or person that wants to start a podcast is 215 episodes, and I care harder about failing, and getting through it. Right like I so I started and I thought, I've always enjoyed broadcast and talk radio, and I've loved the interview process. I've been fascinated by finding the story that's behind the talking points. And I hear or listen to great interviewers, I used to watch Inside the Actor's Studio. So James Lipton, and you know, we, we start, as always, from the beginning, you know, and all everything about him and Brian Lenihan, a famous Canadian interviewer, Larry King. And people always sort of poke fun of the way that these folks acts ask questions, but yet, it uncovered something beyond what you would read in the press release. So when I would go through, and I've talked to folks that are like my nerd friends, so like, I'm gonna start a podcast. And I just would find my local peer group of technologists. And I would say, Hey, you're using some technology, I'd love to dig into why you use it and how you use it. And that's what mattered more to me is like, why and how. And as I got to, like, 15, and 20 episodes, which is common, because it's easy to go to your peer group and your first layer network, you've got, you got 20 episodes in the can pretty much add about 20 episodes, every podcast wheels just fall off the bus, like it's, it's now work, it's now fitting it in and scheduling it, and I travel. So I've got to fit it into when I'm recording when I'm on the road and a lot of stuff. But I started doing more. And I actually linked it up to my work. So actually, it was originally called GC on demand green circle was the community that I was in. So I basically convinced my work people, Hey, let me do this. And, you know, they said, Oh, how will it be about turbonomic? I'm like, it won't. And that's why people are gonna love it, you know, and I had our CEO on I had a bunch of our partners like, so I would make it something that was worth listening. And that was my goal. And then from there, it hit finally hit a point where we couldn't measure it. And that was always a tricky thing, especially when you're in a startup. It's like, well, you know, how do you know there's the attribution through to Salesforce, so there's no checkbox, you know, listens to podcast. And so I got told, Well, we probably just shouldn't be investing effort into it. I was like, oh, okay, sounds good. I guess that makes sense. And I moved on to other things. And all of a sudden, I just let it lapse. And I went back for some reason I was Googling out because I wanted to look at like somebody who was on the show. And I was like, oh, yeah, I gotta remember, you know, I'm curious how the searchability is for it. And I find the iTunes, you know, listing for the podcast, and there was comments in it. And I was like, oh, man, people listen to this. I gotta go back and do it again. Because it like, this mattered to somebody. Yeah. And I was like, All right. So I started then completely rebranded it. And then I decided to change the format because every piece of advice I got from people is don't make it longer than 20 or 30 minutes. people's attention spans aren't made for that, you know, it's hard it's and then I realized Is that, why I'd listened to that, at first was that people are listening to podcasts from companies where they just basically talk about their company and talk about their partners and the relationship with the company. And it had never been about that. And I started to move to longer conversations. And it really was fun. So sorry, I'm giving way too much. I'm stealing all the time. No, no, no, this is fantastic. But I typically say that there's actually two podcasts in every episode, there's the first 25 minutes, which is every human, if you get them sit them in front of a microphone, they've got enough stuff to get through half an hour. Even if it's if they're leaders of a company, they typically they that's about the time that you have like scripted stuff that you've got baked into your head, and at 30 minutes. Use pull something from what you heard in the first 30. And I would say one thing I've noticed, even hearing the way you describe things, it seems obvious to me, but maybe it's not obvious. I'm curious, how did you get this right? How did you get to doing this? And, and the answers are fun, because it's like there's this long pause, and they say, Huh,
that's a good question. You know, like, All right, now. Now, this is a real conversation, and they're out there not not that they were in talking points, but like, it's hard to escape, that you know, the answer to the question you're getting asked. And it's probably frustrating for some people, too, because they like they've gotten used to it. Now. They've heard the show enough. But they'll they would send me like, can you send us the four? You know, what questions? Are you going to ask our CEO? And I'm like, Well, here's the theme. And here's the first question. And the second question will be based on the answer of the first one. And we're going to just meander until we get to, you know, I said, Don't worry, I'll take care of callbacks, I'll avoid financials, I'll avoid competitors, I'll have I know all the rules of the road. But the more I did this, the more I really started to, I believe become good at unpacking somebody's story that they maybe didn't even know they had, which is like, it really truly like, it's, it's amazing, like, to me to think that I can, I can help people find something about themselves that may not even realize they know,
ya know, and I think that that's what makes a really amazing host. And I, you're not the first person to say that, that it takes a little bit of time for people to almost let their guard down, that you are able to kind of break down that first wall. You know, peel that first layer back, and then get to the stuff that that feels real, that feels like something that maybe hasn't really been talked about before. Again, like they have never experienced or thought about for themselves. And we saw at kick caster, we do media training, with a lot of our clients. And it's the same thing for us when we're doing a training session. Because you'll get you know, the the first like 20 minutes, it's like all the talking points, these are all the things that I want to make sure I get an interview. And then we start talking about like, Well, why do you swing your feet out of bed in the morning? Like, yeah, what drives you? Like, it can't be that this, this technology that you developed is what drives you. It's solving something right? So then we get to the really good stuff. It's that's incredible. And so that that's what that's what drives you to continue doing what you do. And then I'm curious, Eric, what's that? What's that first question that you typically ask?
Oh, it's funny. It's but I mean, the first thing is I kind of give them the freedom that I'm going to, I always say like, we're going to talk about you your story, how you got here. But like, let's talk about what is what's the problem that you and your team are solving. That's always the opener, because it gives them a chance to be like, Okay, this is, this is our sort of vision. And this is my vision statement. And like, let them lay that out. And I let them do it in their own words, and even just hearing the nuances if you read the website, you know, it's there. But it's very different when you hear it from them. And that's why again, I like the longer form because if I listened to nothing but 15 to 20 minute podcasts, I'd hear the same questions asked of the same guests over and over again. And it's, that's what's kind of weird to me. I'm like, as a podcaster, as an interviewer, I have a responsibility to make it difference than the last 10 They've done like I want to make them use mine. My conversation with them as like a thing going forward. Actually, I'm sorry. This is a funny thing that somebody the other day, I found out that they're using my podcast with their CTO and co founder as They're enablement training for like, this is why we started the company. Like, that's so cool, because that's exactly what I would love to be able to have, I want them to see this as a meaningful conversation that really helps to unpack something that they, they would be proud to share. And that's kind of neat.
Yeah, I mean, that says a lot for your interview style. And I think that even just from what we're seeing when businesses engage with us is, especially when you're working with a larger organization, and maybe the people within the organization don't have direct contact with the folks at on the top. And it really shed some light into the types of folks that they're working for. And the vision that they're working towards, that is very, like you said, very different from what they read on the website, or perhaps what was told to them during their onboarding process, or by their direct manager. So it really does like it creates this really, I think, unique connection that people have, to the voice to the person behind the voice during a podcast, and especially when you are working so hard to get at the heart of what it is that this particular guest has come to unveil.
Yeah, and it's a I often think of like, one of my favorite quotes is from Frank Zappa. And he says, the computer can't tell you the story. What's missing is the eyebrows, right? There's, there's something that's different about the in person experience, just the fact that you can see the way that they react. And that's really what it is. Even in public speaking, I do coaching and mentoring for people doing public speaking. And I describe public speaking, especially the large room is so tall, it's listening to 500 people at a time. And people kind of like, What do you mean, how can you listen to 500 people a time it's easy. You're it's your responsibility as a speaker to let them guide you to what matters to them. And I've seen I've realized that I guess maybe it's not as common as I think, because I see great presenters do it. And I've learned like, I'm, I'm just an ape for other people's stuff. I am not, I totally steal everybody else's thing. Nothing about me is original, I'm sure. I've just learned from really fantastic people. But this whole thing of, you know, and like I said, this, this, the goal of the conversation in the interview has always been to let them feel free and comfortable. But it's their story that's being told. And then I'll like kind of guide it. And, you know, give them I want to give them bounce points. I'm like the, the like the four people, if you ever see people do trampolining, and there's four people that control the trampoline. That's, that's me, right. So I'm making sure that if you have a bad bounce, it's my responsibility to get the trampoline back in sync.
I like that analogy. And so when you're uncovering these stories, and you've uncovered 215 of them, and you're introducing things to your guests that they've never really thought about before. There's I'm sure a lot of situations that have or conversations that have sat with you, or made you think it's almost like watching a movie, I always gauge the quality of a movie by how long it sits with me. Like, How long am I thinking about this movie? That's initially sometimes I might I might walk away from a movie and be like, Oh, I don't really know how I felt about that. But when I'm reflecting on it, it sits with me and I'm able to say okay, actually, that was a really good movie. It was really well done. It made me think. Have you had conversations like that? I'm sure you've had many, but can you talk us through one or two?
Yeah. Wow. Like it's, it's, it's hard. It's, there's stuff that I've I've learned I My goal is that like these these people are incredible, right? And they're doing something that is they've been advised it's probably not a good idea to do and they're doing it anyways. Like people that found companies are and even beyond that. So that's like a common theme as a so began as techos and then next, you know, it was people in the startup ecosystem and then you've got a lot of people that are in the sort of like pre like seed funding pre a post a funding, so they're still early stage and they're finding product market fit. And then I started talking to people have productivity and life habits and really opened up to I've I've had an incredible array of people. So what's what's really stuck with me Sometimes this just like you said that that that story that happens at 40 minutes in, or 45 minutes, and sometimes where they're really just, they're relaxed and they're sharing. And I, my one that always sticks out is I remember Eliza Huber. And she, she's the founder of a company called SAGE spoonfuls. And she talked about her son being born very early, like at 26 weeks, I believe, or 28, like very, very, very early and it, you know, literally having to go to living in the NICU every day. And she said, like, just the story of like, one day, she just said, like, something's, something's wrong. And I have to go to the hospital. And she's running. Like, because she don't know why you do it, but you run. And she ran and they were like, We were about to call you. Because we don't know that he's going to make it. And she said, like, watching them, like, literally pumping life into his lungs for an like hours, to never give up. And like her sharing this, I'd like to invite her on to talk about making baby safe containers. And she felt this incredible comfort in like, I wanted to really talk about her son who I knew hit as he has cerebral palsy as a result of complications at birth and, and like to have her be able to be comfortable enough to share that story was incredibly meaningful. You know, when I hear stories like that, and talking to another, somebody I've become very good friend with and, and, you know, I asked him a question all the time, I said, What's the thing that scares you the most about, you know, being a founder and like running this business. And he says, really long pause. I've learned that's like, that's the best thing you can you can do is just just let it happen. And he's like, I could see him because he's actually paces before the video. And he says, I, after I'm done this call, I gotta call the investors because I, I don't know that we're, I don't know that we can continue beyond next week. Wow. And I didn't say anything. I just, I just took it in. And he's like, but we got to do it right away. And it was just this moment of like him. Again, it's like the comfort he had to share this situation. And he has since become very successful. And thankfully, you know, and well deserved to have gone through. But to be that close and didn't like you hear those stories. I hear people that share advice. And I start to hear common things. And that's what's really amazing to me. And but yeah, just there are moments. Like at this point, I can say that almost every interview. I've come out of it. And you just you're like fired up. You're like, Hi, I'm a better person now than I was an hour ago. Yeah, like every time that's, there's no, there's no machine like process to it. There's no like, that's why I do no preparation. Well, I lie I do a lot of preparation. But I I don't come in there's no list. There's no notes. There's no teleprompter, there's no nothing. It is just you start, you know, the first question you want to ask, you know where you think you can take it, you know, the theme you want to uncover? And you remember at the end is to bring it back to the start. It's like great comedy. Comedians always do this. If you listen to any comedy special 3040 60 Minute. The last joke is the first joke. Yeah, every time. And it's yeah, it's so I know the sequence. I know the I know, the format to make it worth listening and to bring it back together. So everything else is just the comfort to be able to land no matter what, what angle you come in to the ramp, that kind of thing.
Yeah. And don't you feel to Eric, when you're in those situations where people are telling you sharing with you things that you're not prepared for? They're not prepared for that maybe that's a secret that they're holding inside that they haven't shared with anyone else. Maybe it's a story that they that they don't tell a lot of folks but do you get that sense of relief from them once they're able to share or open up about a situation I'm thinking specifically around this gentleman who shared that he may not. They may not be around having to call his investors. I mean, that might be might have been the first time that he was like, Alright, this is what I have to do. This is the reality.
Yeah. There is there's a and it's funny, it's like I said, and that's why oh boy, and I used to be I was a bad interviewer for a long time. I still don't think I'm particularly good. I've learned tricks, but like the first habit But most people have is to fill space. And to so when you hear like five seconds of pause, the first thing you think is you re ask the question, or you I mistake I used to make all the time, but I've asked two questions in a row, like, you know, ask the question, and then ask the follow up question without we hearing the answer. And like, and I had a good friend of mine. Yeah, she's like, you actually asked me two questions there. So I'm gonna answer the first one, then we'll go for another one. So I've learned to be better at that I still tip over all the time. But yeah, there is that. You can see the moment that they do. And that's why I've learned to, you know, video has been such a fantastic, you know, boost, because you know, that you're seeing that I had one interview, it's funny, he, when he found out that we weren't going to publish on video, he immediately shut his camera off. And I was like, Ha, like, I was kind of sad. And like, that was like, that's because it's actually the nonverbal cues are super important. And, and, and it's tough to because I, if anybody actually, if you can see the other side of this, I'm, I have to look into a camera. My laptop is like five inches below the camera. So I'm careful because if I look at you, you see me looking down in the camera. And I know that's irritating to look at when you're watching an interview. So I have to look. And I basically see you out of the corner of my eye. So when I'm when you're talking, I'm looking at you. And then when I talk, I have to look at the goofy lens. I'm officially that broadcast idiot now who's got to learn how to do now I know why people do this.
You're not an idiot, you're you're taking all those factors into consideration and how it looks, how it's perceived from the other side. So I think that you're just really intentional with everything you're doing. And it sounds like it's from a lot of lessons learned along the way. It's interesting that you talk about the wrapping two or three questions into one question, and then being uncomfortable with dead air. Because that's something that we talk about in our media training all the time. And what I tell our clients is, it's actually I think it's a good sign when a host asks two or three questions in one, it's because they, it means that they're usually pretty excited about what you're talking about. And they have so many questions to ask, and they're afraid they're going to forget it. So they just unload them all at once. And I tell our clients to do exactly what your friend did. And that's just to unpack it. Like, yeah, oh, that was three. That was three questions. I'm going to start with the first one. I don't know if I remember the last one. But we'll
I'm uh, I'm, uh, I'm saying I thought I should cut you off. I'm, I'll say I'm a master of tangents. And some people, it's really interesting, because when you get people that know that they're going off course, and you hear them say, oh, sorry, that was a bit of a tangent. Like, notice, that's, that's all good. Trust me, I'll bring you back. I know where the landing pad is. And it's, it's funny, because a lot of people, it's really weird to be interviewed. It's because you're, you have to surrender to the moment you're sort of you're surrendering control, you're giving that control of the conversation flow. And there's ways in which you can guide it yourself. So it is really a it is a bi directional, it is a true give and take, you know, thrust dodge parry sort of situation. But it's difficult sometimes for people to know or not know, you know, kind of what's coming. It's, that's why I, one of the things I think I am the most proud of is the the five minutes to 10 minutes after the interview is over. When people and like, that's when I should get them to write the testimonial, because they're excited. They're just like, when you start the episode and someone says like, sorry, is a 75 Minute calendar block. Is that a mistake? And I'm like, No, trust me where it'll go by before you know it. And then I had somebody she was like, You're there's no way we're going to record for this long. And then 75 minutes in we you know, is like coming out to the bill. I was like, hey, you know, we're coming up to our time she's like, Oh, already?
Yeah, you're like, yes, 75 minutes.
And how that happens. Because I get the preamble at the start too. And that's always the the thing I have to like open with Hey, I know you're CEO, I know you're founder. I'm going to knock and talk about financials and retire with this. I would send a video of this preamble, but no one would watch the video. So that's why I but there's no prep for them either. So they're walking in sometimes cold, really unaware of what it is. And look, I know they're busy. So the odds are they don't listen to the podcast before they get there. And then also the goofy thing that I like to do is I make them do a radio ID so Are they say, Hey, this is Randy Whalen, you know, and you're listening to the disco posse podcast and I do like the old school radio voice thing and and it's funny because that also they'd like you see them smile as they do that like all right now now we begin and you know it's it's really good I did have one guy sorry one more quick thing that was funny, I had somebody that literally told me at the start of the interview, he's like, just so you know, I don't like to talk.
Fantastic, this will be minutes.
This is gonna be and it was the first 2025 minutes was like, so, you know, Vince had to event to us. He was really good, actually. And he I asked him a question. And every answer was just like, yes. Oh, gosh, I was purposefully giving him questions, there was no yes or no answer to to make sure I gave him a chance to. And then at that funny Mark, where I was now like, I heard a lot of his his background. I was like, it's, I It sounds to me, like, the impact you have on your peers is incredibly important to you, what's the reason for that? And he's like, ah, you know, I guess I never really thought about that. And he talked for like, five straight minutes. Free for me was like a different person. And he was so good. And I just cuz he was not comfortable at the start with himself being on microphone for so long. And to like, give him that freedom. It's it's like the idea of culture, we have a culture is the sense of belonging, and the ability to fail safely. But that's what I want people to feel at the end of and that's what a good interview should it should give you the the thing sometimes at the end where they go, Wow. You know, like, like that Oprah crying moment where you like, I didn't think that that was gonna happen. But yeah, it happens.
And I think to Eric, you know, asking getting somebody who doesn't necessarily feel comfortable behind the mic, telling their story, but asking them something that they haven't thought about before and listening to them work through it. And it sounds like that's exactly what happened with Vince is that you asked a question that you were catching a thread a common thread, you asked him a question, and he hadn't necessarily thought about the answer to that. So you got to hear the inner workings of him putting that together, which is amazing.
It's a lot of fun. And the advantage that you get with with durability in doing this, like I have an increase of 215 hours of background information to bring to every interview. And it gets better. Like I've well one more hour of research every week, at a minimum, where I'm and I've got a fairly good memory. So I can Oh, this is interesting, because I talked to somebody who's also uses the same venture capitalist or whatever. And I, we can do callbacks to previous episodes, because I've got this sort of broad base of knowledge. And I realized, like we you hear like sports announcers and they always talk about Yeah, back in 7080. I saw the Bruins play here and like, it's because they've had this lived experience that they continue to bring back and then that makes it easier for my guests. So I think as every episode gets published, I believe my capability to give people a conversational comfort will get better. Because I can give them important points and and they understand they trust now that I know what I'm doing. That they feel okay with me asking sometimes tougher questions, because I've had, you know, some guests, you know, of someone who's fantastic, Eva, black, and they were on. And we talked about stuff around diversity and challenge, or trends and insecurity, and an open source. And so we've got all these incredible backgrounds. And Eva has the ability to like, talk about really difficult things, but we don't want to do it in a way that causes people to be uncomfortable. We want them to cause we want them to not think there's an answer, but to learn how to ask a question. And I will say that's the the lesson than to get anybody at the end of a podcast, you should have a really great bunch of questions that you would ask yourself, you know about yourself, having now listened to this person share their story, and that's why the personal impact is strong. I've developed really strong personal and even commercial, sometimes relationships with folks that have been on the show, because over time, you're like, Hey, I know somebody who's in the same sort of vein and they're doing marketing automation and you know, so I've actually been able to connect a lot of people together which is, which is a lot of fun. You know, just to help them because, you know, they're they're effectively giving their, their their life to me for an hour and 15 minutes every week, which is kind of cool.
Yeah, and you talked about something a little earlier in our conversation just about how, you know, founders are, are encountering all sorts of difficult things, and especially things that can oftentimes cause fear and a lot of folks. And I know that one of the things that you talk about is the work that you like to do would frighten some people. So I wonder if there's, you know, like listening to founder stories, and talking about fear and things that are so common with most founders. And, and then what like, what is it that you you know, what, tell us a little bit about your, the way that you seek out opportunities that would frighten most people?
Yeah, this is, I can say that I literally, like, within about a week, I became very comfortable with stuff that I am not good at and slicing it out of things that I should be doing and really stepping off and, but one thing I am, I believe, you know, good at which is and I'm, this is the kind of idiot that I am I actually registered a domain for it, because this is the kind of world that I am. But I call it the slow twitch side hustle, right? So slow twitch muscular response is for endurance athletes. slow twitch is the ability to do you know, it's durability, and extensibility of muscular use during endurance. Sports is your cyclist. Right? Right. Yeah, yeah. So, and my, my favorite thing to do in cycling is to go up, where people want to come down. And so when I look at a hill, people think that would be fun to come down. I think that would be even more fun to go up. Go up. Right and
the climb the stuff that's yeah,
I, I like it because it's weird thing. I'm not as I'm not fast. I'm not strong. I'm not intelligent. But I'm willing to do stuff that most people are not. Yeah. And it makes me appear as though I'm potentially fast, strong or intelligent. But all it is, is I'm willing to listen, learn and do stuff that is uncomfortable for far longer than most people are willing to do it. The difference between a cyclist? A good cyclist, and an average cyclist is pain tolerance. It's not training, it's not diet. It's not whatever it is the ability to do stuff that you your body is telling you is a flippin terrible idea to be doing.
Yeah, no, I can, I can absolutely relate to that I, I cycle with my husband, not as much as I would like to, but he has that same ability to endure. And it's not. You know, I think that and just watching him as he's like, he's just steady. He's not. He's not fat, we're climbing. We live in Colorado. So
we're, there's a lot of clients in Colorado a lot of climbs
and climbing is it's just it's not about speed. It's about keeping your cadence and just staying the course. And I think that that's what a lot of people are uncomfortable with. Like I think a lot of folks would rather kind of sprint as fast as they can to get to the top but it's just it's impossible to do quite frankly for for most humans so so that's interesting. So what So tell me a little bit about what's your what's the side hustle this little twitch
everything a podcast you know there's no functional reason why anybody should have tuner and 15 episodes when they don't make money at doing it like I mean I do have sponsors and so there you go leaked announcement coming up new sponsor but so but that is purely just to like pay for the operational stuff like I have. I have a VA so a virtual assistant who thank you to the folks at level nine kit caster client who came to me Joe rare. I interviewed Joe rare and he was a fantastic human and I said I think I'm going to become a customer of yours soon. And like seven weeks later, I was signing up for level nine one of the most amazing services I've been using them now for months and months months they are a lifesaver. So I'm I'm kinda like like Mr. Beast if you ever hear he's a YouTuber and he says his whole thing he could make a million dollars on a video so what does he do? He spends 1.2 million on the next video like he just pours it right back in and that to me is so the the the Abyss God to do stuff where I've had every reason to stop. And it whether it's in business, in work in athletics in anything, you know, it's tough to motivate yourself through the most difficult times. I've been in retail, I was a cobbler, I literally fix shoes for two years, but I didn't fix shoes, I became the number one shoe repair in Canada, with no background, never fix the shoe in my life, got a job, because I wanted to move somewhere and I needed money. And next thing, you know, three years later, I'm running the top growth shoe repair in the country. And it's for me, it's like whatever you do, just be bloody good at it. Be proud of it, you know, and in when you aren't when you can't be. Because I know it's not possible for everybody to experience that. That joy of, of, you know, creating something. Like, you've got to ride it out until you can find your thing. And
it is right. Yeah,
yeah. So like, I was a landscaper, and I've been a shoe repairman. And I've worked for an explosives company in tech. And I've worked in insurance. I've worked in all these different companies. I sold coupons for muffler shops, like whatever it was, I would do whatever needed to get done. To the point where like, all I want to be able to do is I want to be so comfortable doing something that if everything else fell apart, I could somehow do this for a job. And knowing that I've got all these different things that I can do. And I do technical marketing, and now I do startup advisory and do other things. And the reason why I do it is because I've been taking in information for many years. I'm an older gentleman now. So I've got a lot of years under the belt. But like that, that ability to say what are you doing now that has a future value that's greater than one? And looking for that everyday? What's the thing I do every day? And that's why at least I know, one day a week, I've got a thing that I know is greater than like I yeah, when I got that, when I get that moment I can I can ride someone else's journey. And what a gift. What a gift for someone to share that with me. It's amazing.
Oh, that's really it's truly incredible. You know, Eric, something that we ask I ask all the guests that come on to hosted is just to provide three tips. You've been doing this long enough? And, you know, I would say that, you know, one of the tips, I feel like you would say is to do the very best that you can do like why do it if you're not going to try to be the best at what you're doing. But what are some what are some three tips that you would give to our listeners who might be interested in starting a podcast might be interested in re launching a podcast that they said goodbye to but they've missed it so much, or maybe wanting to revamp what they what their what they've got going on?
Yeah, so number one, do something for longer than you expect it's going to take and that is be willing to do it when no one's watching. When no one's listening. Like I get zero feedback on the podcast like now I get more but like it's you're you're talking into a microphone, and then it's published as a recording, there's no live experience. So it takes a while to get used to like the lack of feedback loop. And especially the first number of episodes, they all have like near zero listeners, like a rare I like having to go in this the other day. And I did a look for something called listen notes. And they have a good podcast search engine and they also do rankings. And I found out just randomly that this podcast now is in the top 1% of global podcasts. And I'm like, what? Oh, okay, I guess somebody is listening, right? And I see like, you know, I get like 1000 You know, listens per episode and the 1000 or so watches on YouTube. But I'm not comparing myself against people like Mr. Beast, or like, you know, a major podcaster so I'm always thinking I can do better, I continue to you know, so I'm always willing to go for that like that first 20 When I gave up at like, 2530 wherever it was, and I stopped for like seven months. If I just kept going, you know, when I got back on and I made it happen when no one was watching, there's no reason to do it other than I needed to do it for myself. That that got me to now where I have the opposite problem where someone comes in the podcast and like it's going to be seven weeks until this goes out because I've got a massive backlog which is Yeah. Which is. Yeah, it is. It is it's an interesting one but so number one is whatever you're going to do, do it i The one time I don't my cards are going to tell me like when you do a card trick. The reason I learned this from Penn Jillette he said of Penn and Teller, magician fame. He says the difference between a normal person and Magician is a magician will do something will spend like $100,000 for two years and do something before they'll ever show someone. Like, they'll do a trick 10,000 times before they'll show their friend. But most people will be like, they learn this thing. And they're like, check this out to the next person they know. Like, you've got to be able to do something, and be comfortable without feedback for a while, which is now going to be completely opposite to my next tip, which is find a peer group that can give you continuous feedback. And that is because you learn like imagine if you like I now have a friend of mine, John Meyer, he's got a podcast. And so by the way, Kip caster send people to John Meyer, he's a fantastic podcaster. But his he and I collaborate constantly. And it's always like, hey, well, what would you know? What do you think of my intro? Like just little things, and we, you know, I always say like, you're gonna hate me. There's a couple things that I would try differently. And he then does the same thing to me. And we, we get better with every conversation we have, we get better. And we learn to do that find a peer group. And there's lots of your peers out there. Yeah. So go get somebody who shares your passion. And you learn together instead of you making mistakes all the way because I now can mentor people, because I've made a bunch of mistakes. And no one told me to do this. And I just kept pushing through. And now I know I'm like, I can save you a bunch of hassle. And the third thing is automate as much as you can and build systems wherever possible, and even if the system could be you writing down, like, who's the podcast? Guest? What is the? What's the comment goal? And this is a funny thing, what it would if you imagine someone listening to this podcast, what would you like them to say as a result of hearing this interview? Go into it thinking about what you want to learn from it, and that somebody is listening, and they're going to have questions at the ends, not answers questions, they're going to care enough to want to learn more. It's not about them spending 3040 minutes it's about them caring about finding out more, always make them want more, that's, that's where you're winning. That's where you're doing things right. You know, and well, I believe so that's, that's my third tip. So if you don't have systems, and you don't have processes, sorry, I'm Canadian. So I say processes, processes, but
I think I'm gonna adopt that.
So, if you if you can build some, some processes, then you've got a bit of a machine to lean on. So you know, like, alright, it's Tuesday, I'm going to publish today I'm going to produce, I'm going to do whatever I'm going to certainly spend eight to 9am, prospecting for potential guests, whatever it is, and then use tools like Zapier and you know, other automation tools and reach out to me, hit me up, I'm there's like a lot of ways to connect with me. And I will happily share and collaborate with anybody who wants to, you know, take that journey to the next level. And also, not just peers in that direct peers. Sorry, for brand news like this is gonna be way longer than it should be. So long form podcasts. The peer group is number one direct peer group where you're actually interacting with them, I call them like sort of like mentor mentee relationships. The second one is people that you are, like, actively chasing how they got there. So reading background stories about another podcast or interviewer, so you are researching about somebody but not interacting with them directly. And then the third one is just consume information and consume styles. But this is a careful one. You have to be careful, because if you listen to a bunch of Larry King episodes, and then you do an interview, guess what you're gonna start with? How important is the microphone? Like you're gonna say a classic Larry King's question.
Oh, yes, you're absolutely going to adopt whatever you're listening to most of Yeah. Yeah.
I don't know if I have a style. But like, I tried to be fluid. And, and I think that's really the goal and like, be ready to be flexible and fluid. But like I said, so that's God, there's so many people out there to learn from don't don't feel like you need to do it on your own. And you're fine could say this. If you're watching and you're listening. You cared about asking yourself the question, Can I do this, then? Yes, you can. Yeah, that's the answer. You can do it. And I'll help you do it.
Yeah. Excellent. Thank you so much, Eric. I really appreciate that. All those were all fabulous chips. And if you want to connect with Eric, do so and we're going to share are on our show notes. We'll have all the information to connect with Eric. So there are lots of places. YouTube as
the gentleman just keeps disco posse everywhere. That's the easy part. It's easy to find.
It's great. Wonderful. Okay, so we have just a couple minutes here. So we're gonna play just a super quick round of lightning round. Round of would you rather? Are you ready? All right, let's do it. Okay. So who would you rather write your business pitch? Elon Musk or Oprah?
Woof a guide last Elon. He's a good gentleman, but I wouldn't want to do my marketing.
So you're gonna go with Oprah.
I think it was I love Elon to death. And he's so fantastic. But Oprah has gotten she knows messaging very well.
She sure does. Yeah, I think that's a good answer. Who would you rather trust with your secrets? your deepest, darkest secrets? This American Life? Ira Glass or hardcore histories? Dan Carlin? Oh,
I gotta go Carlin on that one. There is nothing more than then. Hearing that. Dan Carlin has forgotten more about history than I'll ever know. So I know there's some secrets that he would keep well.
Great reasoning. Okay, your last question here. Who would you rather be stranded on an island with Tina Fey or Amy Poehler?
That Goodness gracious. That's a real a real toss up. Tina Fey definitely. She is my the first one I discovered and I did a lot of background research on on her style. So I'm a big fan of UCB and stuff. Amy did come from a similar background, but I'm a little bit more versed in the Tina Fey story. So I'm gonna go there.
Okay, excellent. That was pretty painless.
Yeah, I was. I was worried I was like saving up for like, maybe if we talk long enough, we won't get to do this part.
That's the fun part. Thank you for playing and thank you for being on hosted and for providing such great insights to our listeners. I'm gonna again, just include all of the ways that people connect with you on the show notes. And thank you so much, Eric. Really appreciate your time today. Thank you. All right. Have a fantastic one. Thanks, everyone for tuning in.