My name is Catherine Carr. And this is season three of relatively, the podcast all about potentially the longest relationships of your life.
I have three siblings. I'm the youngest and the baby, which of course makes me the most spoiled.
This week, we're talking to Jen Baldwin, youngest of four, and a reformed ski bum.
I guess adventurer is probably a good way to say it.
She's a senior researcher at Find my past the family history, people, I just spend my days delving into the history of humanity kind of one person at a time,
she's been responsible for all the family history research for season three, a relatively
I have been researching my own family tree. Since I was about 10 years old.
Jen has lived all over the states chasing the snow, but her childhood was spent in small town, Washington, DC, as well as the baby and adventure and maybe a little bit spoiled. She will also describe herself as a nerd, who is happy to talk about her passion for family history, her favourite discoveries for relatively, and other amazing siblings stories that she's discovered in her role for find my past. But she started by describing what exactly genealogy is.
Its discovering which ancestors were involved in the military, and what wars and battles they fought in. It's talking about their occupations and where they worked, who they worked for, how they did it, how they made money, I like to say things like, you know, do you know where your ancestor got their shoes? And if you can describe how they obtained shoes, then you have done family history to a point where you have been very thorough. So really, it's the discovery of just stories of the people who came before us and, and how we got to where we are today. And how were we born and into what environment were we born into. All of that comes from the actions of our ancestors,
that's so interesting, as well, because I'm relatively as you know, I always talk about the fact that each sibling is born into a different tide, because each family has it, even within the nuclear family, even within today's family has moved on a little. So when you extrapolate that back generation, plus another generation plus another generation, that story just gets more and more fascinating.
Absolutely. So there's seven years difference between myself and my oldest sibling, my brother, and the environment in which he was born into when my dad was active duty Navy, it was very different the environment I was born in to where my dad was retired, and now you know, pursuing a civilian career. Amazing. So just tell me then you said in the introduction, that you've been into family tree stuff, since you were really small. How did you get into it?
Yeah, I started with a very stereotypical school project where you had to interview an older member of your family.
Yeah, everybody's done that.
And by the time I it was my turn, right, it was the fourth kid. So there was only one grandparent left to interview. And so I sat down with my grandfather, they lived about a mile from us. I didn't realise at the time that he was actually starting his journey into Parkinson's disease. And so his memory was already starting to fade. So grandma sat with us and made sure that all of his answers were correct. And when she did that, she pulled out this freshly baked batch of cookies. And I'm sitting there thinking at 10 years old, I am the luckiest kid in the world right now, because I get grandma's cookies. And I get them all to myself, because my other siblings weren't there, right. And she must have seen some kind of a spark because she kept having me come to the house first, for random chores. They were like you sent Jen down here to help with this. And every time I showed up, she had more cookies.
So they would, we would do this kind of random excuse of a chore and then sit down at the table. And they would fill me with stories. And so my journey really started with oral history, and my grandmother's cookies that she would magically pull out of this apple cookie jar. And when they passed on, I actually inherited the cookie jar. So it now sits in my office.
Oh, I love that. So I'm gonna say that your grandma knew exactly what she was doing mind.
Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, she definitely knew what she was doing. And in fact, she had pursued some of the family history. At some point, we did find after she passed, we found letters and pedigree charts and kind of some of that traditional genealogy material in her house. She never once showed me those items. She knew instinctively that a 10 year old a 12 year old wouldn't be interested in some boring chart. She filled me with stories and she started taking me to cemeteries and to meet distant cousins. And I remember sitting at the holiday table and you know, other family members saying, Don't you want to go play with the kids? And we're like, No, I'm totally happy sitting here in the midst of the adults just soaking it all in.
Can you remember some of the stories that she told you about maybe the people that you went to see the graves of and stuff like that? The one that maybe made the first and biggest impact? I think
probably the one that stands out the most is my great grandfather, William Warner Brown. And the reason it stands out is because my grandmother was so angry at him. He was known to be kind of have a, you know, quite selfish individual. And so here's this patriarch of the family. He's the one who moved us West and got the family out of farming and kind of this this level of poverty that they had been in, and really created the branch of the family that I come from. But in the background, he was pretty spoiled. And, you know, there was a story where the oldest son was involved in a train accident in which he lost his life. And so great grandpa sues the train company, and he wins and he gets all this money. And great grandma says to him, the Baby needs diapers, like can we go buy some supplies, and instead, he went and bought himself a new suit. And, and so the the family really didn't have positive memories of this man and my grandparents ended up essentially raising one of the younger brothers after this man dies and was a person in the family that nobody really talked about.
I mean, that often is the the hook, isn't it? The kind of black sheeps the scandal or the rebel?
Yeah. Yeah, he stands out from the crowd for a reason, right? It just happens to be negative reasons.
So let's bring it back into nuclear family stuff. You You got the job, when find my past offered to sponsor relativity of looking into the siblings that we've had on this season like the frailing brothers and outrun sisters who worked as coders during the war, or the TV presenter, Esther rents and her sister, who lives all the way over in Australia. How's that been? From your point of view?
You know, it's been a lot of fun. The research at times has been really challenging, because there are guests from the podcasts that have had a lot of work done on their genealogy already. Episodes of Who do you think you are sitting out there. And the coding sisters obviously wrote a whole book about their story. So in some cases, very challenging, which is makes it very enjoyable for me, because it's a little bit like playing detective, poring through historical records, trying to find something new. But I think the part that I like the most actually is listening to the episodes afterwards, in my role, I don't really get that hands on kind of one to one reaction, but with podcasts have been able to listen to their reactions kind of almost in real time, right? How how did they feel? How did they perceive that story? How did they take that moment? And it's, it's always so rewarding to understand that that work is going to be now taken on and oh, I'm gonna show we need to show our mom this right that I don't think she knew this. And those little moments of kind of discovery are really, really substantial. For me. That's That's an incredible moment.
I think that's what's sweet about it is because as siblings, we know that once you're back together with your brothers and sisters, you basically regressed to age, your age about 12. About the family history thing is that they become like, you know, kids with something exciting to show their mom and dad and they're like, Oh, we've got to tell mom, yeah, even if, even if they're like 52. Regression is like complete in that moment. I totally agree. So do you have a sort of Top of the Pops of three that you would pick out?
I would start with the Edward Newell Robinson, you know, the research behind all of these podcasts is pretty extensive, right. And we, I know, in the interviews, you just kind of pick out one or two little bits to share with them. But there's a lot going on to kind of lead to that story. The piece that is talked about that I liked the most actually was the individual who worked as a pharmacist, Arthur not right. So their grandparents, I think Arthur not was a trained chemist. But in the 1921 census, he's employed at the Queen, fairy Flint, and this is most likely today to be Queens fairy brewery in Flint. So the building is still there. And they knew about this. But they had remarked that they didn't really have much detail on the occupation and the status of that family. But the idea that the role of pharmacist was really quite a high end occupation at that time, right, and kind of taking that little bit of information and being able to actually say, well, they were actually doing okay, he was educated. He had a real career, he had ability for progress in his career, right. He had promotional opportunities. He had that path in front of him 100 years ago.
I do like that, because often stories get when it's Chinese whispers or oral history, isn't it so things can get distorted and simplified. And by the time it got down to Sophie and Edward, I think it was like, Yeah, I think they were they the Porsche ones. That's about all they knew. So the level of detail in the document was really great to be able to share with them. Yeah,
mum mentioned that they lived in this in this hall or this big, big house, but I didn't have religion on their own.
I thought it was grandpa's side of the family that had the money nobody's ever talked about granny side of the family.
Man did say that on mom's side of the family. It's no one spoke about it. So Granny, Granny Moore never talked about her mum and dad or anything like that or where they were brought up or marriage or anything. It's all very secretive. And even to this day, mom's side the family don't really know anything about their grannies and grandpas and what happened to them and what Did all very hush hush.
So I can tell you that Pamela's dad was a pharmacist and he worked at the Queen Mary Flint where he was an employer. And I think it still exists the building does. Yes, it's most likely the Queensferry brewery in Flint and there is still a brewery there today.
Wow. That sounds like a lot that's have to give passed on to mom because she probably won't know about that.
This season a relatively is sponsored by find my past the online home of the 1921 census. Almost a century after 38 million people completed the census. Find my past was chosen by the National Archives to digitise and preserve every one of the eight and a half million household churches, they fill them. And now after three years of painstaking diligent work by a huge team, the census is finally available online. Where will your past take you find out in the 1921 census exclusively available online at Find my past.co.uk? What about the next one? Then? What was your second number two?
Yeah. So my second favourite I think would probably be Mandy Theresa Loughlin and her story, you know, pretty typical Irish family. To be fair, one of the things that I like about Irish research, which is notoriously difficult for family history, because they've had a lot of record loss, is that they have a lot of records that exist today from their criminal courts. So in those records in those court records, there's a case against a Nicholas Whelan, who is one of Mandy's ancestors. And he allowed two of his cows to trespass onto the neighbor's property. And they basically stepped over some of the potatoes and ruined some of the crop of the neighbour. And so the neighbour takes him to court over this issue. And he's petty session records are full of that kind of, of story. So it's, you know, this idea that, you know, you can make all these different assumptions around Nicholas Whelan, like maybe he didn't care that his cows are trespassing in his neighbor's yard. Maybe there were other disputes there. And how did they come to terms on that? Did he have to give them five of his own potatoes, like how many potatoes actually got squished by these cows or eaten? So there's a whole lot happening there. The other piece of that story that really caught my attention was another of her ancestors named Hume Murphy, who had a dog he had a black greyhound. And in Ireland, you had to register your dogs and get a dog licence, it was another way to generate taxes. And so he, he registered his dog year over year over year, and that's actually how we were able to make the connections in the family was humorous police dog.
And this is in case people are confused. This is kip Deval, and her brother Dean's ancestors. And the most amazing thing about that episode for me was that the story I picked out, I thought this is really left field, I'm not sure if this is going to land very well. And it was about an ancestor of ancestors that dug up a Bronze Age urn, I think while repairing a hedge row or something like that on a piece of land in Ireland. And I thought it could be greeted with like really unimpressed silence, but actually one of Dean's other siblings is like a really into family history and be completely obsessed by the Bronze Age. We got any claims to that? I don't know because it's been written up quite extensively. And I'll send you the link. And there's actually a photograph from the fifth of April 1935. And he's leaning down with this urn that he discovered in amongst the peat in the mud. It's amazing.
What's really interesting about that we've
got a sister who is obsessed with the Bronze Age. And you know, in all the time in all the time that she's been obsessed with that, and obsessed with genealogy, she's never found a story remotely as interesting as I know, she will literally be over the moon with that information. And what about the third one, then what's your third one in the Top of the Pops?
Yeah, so I think it has to be the coding sisters, you know, patent gene are so well documented. Their life story is absolutely tremendous. The book is a must read as far as I'm concerned. So it was a real privilege actually to work on their family tree for me. They're kind of historical celebrities, if you will, and they expressed a specific desire to learn more about their maternal grandmother, Agnes Margaret Suarez was a descendant of this actually quite prestigious family from the Channel Islands and they go back all the way to the, you know, probably early to mid 1700s. The last one I traced was the first Baron de Samaras, who was born in 1757. And just kind of chasing that story and going person by person, the lineage itself from this first Baron down to the sisters, you know, it's a modern day. It's very traditional genealogical research. It's one generation after the other but you find all of these little stories amongst each Have those generations, this family was really incredible.
And I think what I loved about it, and I'll pay them react, they're very cheeky reaction to this in a minute. But what I loved about it is that the research that found my past provided for me to give to the siblings in which people could find if they did their own family history research, not just documents with writing on but there was actually a painting of this ancestor, there's the Baron. And I thought, oh, that's, that's amazing, we were able to send that to them. And they were able to then look at that and enjoy it. And similarly, the urn that was found by kids ancestors is actually in like the National Museum of Dublin or something. So the fact you can touch and see these things made it all much more real. But anyway, we should listen to patent Jean and their response. He was awarded the Knight Grand Cross of the Order of Bath command, a Grand Cross of the Order of the sword of Sweden, and the freedom of the City of London, all of those awards. Good heavens. Well,
that should be good for feel free holidays for us. Yes, I've never thought games to the Channel Islands and following it up, but I rather wish I'd done it now. It's fiddly.
I was I thought he was so into that was really sweet. I wonder if people are interested in family history more generally, if you have any other good sibling stories, which aren't from my podcast, but which of your research, which you could share with us to sort of give us more of a flavour of the kinds of things which are out there? Yeah, there's
some really great stories out there and one that we actually just worked on recently, which people could still find, and kind of dig up online, if they choose to read more. There was an individual named William Elliot, who when he was a boy, he left a note in a church pew, in northwestern England, county, Durham. It basically says on the note, you know, I don't want to be forgotten. Please remember me whoever finds this note, please remember me it's the sweetest, most vulnerable position for you. I think he was 10 or 11, when he left that note. And the local community had tried to kind of put his story together and figure out you know, what happened to this young boy. And we were able to get involved and dig into the research. It turns out that his sister was the first one to emigrate, she emigrated to the United States. It gets married and kind of settles down. And he follows Just a year later, and then joins the United States Navy. Over the course of his naval career, the United States changed his policies, and they say, Well, you actually have to be a naturalised citizen to join the navy or our military forces. And so he ends up resigning from his position, he gets fast tracked into citizenship, and then re enlist. He has his amazing career, he serves on a number of different vessels, he serves on submarines, and all sorts of things. He works through World War One, and then eventually retired from the Navy, late in the 1930s. And then at the start of World War Two, when the US US enters World War Two, he re enlist serves again through World War Two, and then retires in California. And now we have been able to connect his his living descendants to this note back in County Durham saying, you know, here's this young man who didn't want to be forgotten. And now we have his descendants today saying, Yeah, we haven't forgotten you
is so touching, isn't it? How you can? Obviously, I'm preaching to the choir here, how you can kind of thread these little tiny clues and then find a whole life and then put all these other lives in touch with each other. There's something very kind of affirming about the process, it seems to me anyway. Yeah,
absolutely. And, and I would say, in this case, it was especially poignant for me, because the crux of the research was really his sister. So it really, you know, it's not just that it's a sibling relationship. But it's also crucial to me that it was a woman that helped put that story together. And women are so traditionally left out and forgotten in the historical record, because of course, history was predominantly a male's worlds, right? Because of the rights and not rights that women were afforded over history, so most of history really relies on the male being represented in the record, but in this case, it was the female of the family that really made this story. Great.
I love that I absolutely love that. People listening. Specifically me might think I don't want to project onto everyone that the amount of research seems quite daunting. But I was surprised to learn when I kind of looked into doing family history and how something like find my past works. That actually, there's quite a community of people out there who are finding pieces of the puzzle that may be part of your family's puzzle, too. So actually, you get a lot of help, don't you when you start?
Yeah, I would say that's very true. The community is incredibly welcoming, and very ready to, to encourage you and to teach. The Find my past forum community on Facebook is particularly good at introducing people who are new to the hobby and saying, you know, here is a great way to get started. And oh, I've researched you know, Johnston's from that county before, let me point you in the right direction and give you a little leg up on, you know, who are the right people to talk to? What are the best websites to use, you know, find my past says, parish records from this county that are particularly good. So if you if you're working in that area of the country, you know, that Find My past is going to be a good resource for you and tips like that.
And why would you recommend people to do it? Like, obviously, you're borderline obsessed? If I'm allowed to say that? For the uninitiated, or the non obsessed people? Why would you recommend it as a as a hobby?
Oh, gosh, that's such a good question. Of course, I am obsessed. And I haven't been for a long time. I can't imagine my life though, without knowing where I came from, and who I who I came from. I think, for me, one of the biggest lessons I've learned along the way is that I have, I feel that I have a greater sense of empathy for other people around the world than I would without knowing the struggles that my ancestors went through. Right, I know that my ancestors experienced war, and famine and depression. And, you know, we're trying to farm during the dustbowl. I know all of those things. And because I know that I can look at today's environments, whether it's political or occupational, or financial. And I can say I can sympathise at least a little bit with the person who's going through that experience, because I know that my ancestors survived that I think it really helps us understand that we are actually just one big family, literally the entire world of humanity, the entire population of humanity. We're all connected in some way, we share this history. And the more we understand that, and the more we understand that, from that very personal level of our own ancestors, and see the world through their eyes, the easier it is for us now today to have empathy for each other and say, I can meet you in the middle there, I can compromise on this issue. Because we have that in common. We have this bit of history and common thing
you should do a TED talk, Jen, frankly. Thank you very much. I really appreciate it. It's absolutely wonderful to talk to you. And thank you so much for doing all of that. My dogs barking. Thank you very much for doing all of that brilliant research for season three of relatively as well
as my absolute pleasure. Thank you.
Thank you to Jen and thank you too, for listening. There are two more episodes to come in this season of relatively you can find all the episodes from Season One, two, and three. I think there's 50. Now, at relatively podcast.com If you've enjoyed the podcast, please do share that website with friends or maybe a brother or a sister. And you can rate review and subscribe wherever you find your podcasts as well. It really does help thank you. Thank you to Tony to ticker him for letting us use her amazing song. This is a pocket Production and Sound Design is by Nick Carter at mix sonics.com I'd also like to say a huge thank you to our sponsors for this season of relatively find my past for digging into their extraordinary records and uncovering surprising and often revelatory family stories, some of which you've heard today find my past is the only place online where you can access the 1921 census. So if you want to start your family tree or add colour to what you know already, then find my past or co.uk is the place to do it.
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