Care of Magical Shippers Podcast Episode 27 - Flintwood: "Nothing Left to Lose" Fic Discussion (Marcus Flint/Oliver Wood)

3:01AM Apr 25, 2022

Speakers:

Megs

Keywords:

marcus

oliver

shane

read

literally

parents

people

quidditch

thought

moment

episode

muggle

friends

fic

boyfriend

relationship

fun

character

pairing

ship

Hey there listener Fancy seeing you here. Look, sometimes due to the things we discuss on the pod, it might contain potentially triggering content. But the good news is you can always review the episode description for a full list of the warnings applicable to this episode. Oh, and just so you know, this episode is rated are a really filthy, it includes adult themes and explicit content. So if you're an adult, buckle up, Gird your loins and prepare to flood the basement because we are going down with these

ships.

Blend world we should plant word there the Quidditch muscles OTP deep dive into fanfic exploit issues with our family. In an unassuming Muggle street, you will find the bar in which they meet fled word we should play word for time. You're gonna screw time. We'll have a gale time.

Nathan, I'm so excited.

Oh my god, what are you excited about? I'm excited. What's what's happening to me?

We are almost to our one year anniversary for the podcast.

Oh, I'm so excited. I may vomit like this. This is a monumental milestone. Can you believe that? We've been doing this a year

i It doesn't feel like it's been that long. Like of course I can believe that. I mean, we've put a lot of time energy work into this. And it's been so much fun. But it's it's it is amazing to stop and think. Okay, May of last year we started doing this. And then the December before that may was when it was like the ideas were coming together. So this is this is so exciting. We're just we're so excited.

It because we had the discord long before the first episode came out. So even though we're celebrating the one year anniversary, I mean, we we had our trailer that went out in March. And then our first episode went out in May. So we've been doing this for a while now. And I guess it's time to celebrate that. And what better way to do that than with some fun. And games. Which can I just say listener? You personally, you listen to it right now, I'm not prepared for the shenanigans that we're gonna get up to next time. It has to be it's got to be unhinged. It's got to be like nothing we've ever given to you before. And I'm really proud of it because of how crazy it is. For the energy of it, I'm just so the ideas that we had, we had a couple of great suggestions from listeners, including fanfic madlibs, which we are definitely going to do another time. But in the spirit of that sort of idea. That's what we're bringing you next time. I mean, did you want to go into any more detail? You just want to leave it like mystery?

Yeah, I would say leave it a mystery. All I'm going to say is rest well drink your liquids, like be ready to like, you know, like you're just it's it's a fun time. We laugh so much. I mean, we laugh a lot of the time in here and it's just, it's gonna be long, I'm pretty sure but it's just it's us having fun playing some games and just being silly and we think that you're gonna enjoy enjoy it so we cannot wait to do something completely different. And it's gonna be so fun. So two weeks from now, our celebratory one year anniversary episode and yeah, we can't wait for you to give that one a listen when it comes.

And also while I remember if you want to tell us what you're doing to celebrate as you listen along you can send those in to Care of Magical shippers podcast gmail.com I can't wait to share this with you it's going to be in credible

So for now, enjoy the this episode because obviously this episode is equally awesome because obviously

yeah, this is what the Flintwood Fick episode yeah I know what we're doing

Yes exactly. Like oh, what is this?

Yeah, well obviously this episode is good because we get to talk more about Flintwood and we love that yes, but also could definitely come back next time for our one year anniversary. It's gonna be a hoot. I'm so I'm really pleased with like the stuff that we've got lined up for you and I can't wait I can not wait. I want it to be next time already. knew that.

Enjoy your space. Let's go to ship If you don't care if I get my bearings, well then you can hit the bricks. This is my own seat down with this welcome back to Care of Magical shippers, podcast, Harry Potter ship culture podcast and I m mags.

I make

Yes, I let you say your name

or you let me so fun

we are okay, so All right. Why don't

you tell the listeners well

like this week, I'm just gonna let Max riff for a little bit.

So of course last week, we did our Flintwood episode and I went into a little bit, the fanfic that I read. That was really fun for me. And I of course hyped it up and told Nathan to read it. And luckily, you liked it. So yes, we're going to do an episode audit. So that's what we're here to do. So we're talking more about our, our delicious, like Quidditch muscles clashing together and

sweaty and it's going to be fun. Yeah,

yes. So if you want, if you want to read the story ahead of time, we have it linked in the description. It's called nothing left to lose by immortal banner. And it's about 65,000 words, I think there's just heads up, definitely check out our list of content warnings, because this is definitely a effect that gets into a lot of really like heavy elements as far as like mental health, homophobia, things like that. So just be prepared for that. But I think that's kind of what also is great about the spec, because it's giving us so much dimension to these characters. And it's it makes it real, like it feels I can feel it's just you feel so much. There's just so much emotion in this and that's what drew me in. So definitely check that stuff out. But it's amazing. It's it's, it's, it's great.

Well, supposedly, the best Quidditch matches are where the triumph is earned. And I really feel like for the characters, that triumph is earned in this faith. And when it happens, I'm happy. So yeah, there are definitely some darker themes, some Meteor issues and some potentially triggering topics that we're going to be talking about in this episode because of that, but don't worry, stick around because it all Yeah,

exactly. Yeah. And we're not here to try and traumatize anyone.

Exactly. Enjoyed it. Ultimately, we enjoy these deep dives into character we think you do too, and a little bit of trauma. We've all come through trauma, a little bit of trauma is is good to talk about in a safe and loving environment, which we hope this is so you stick with those times pretty much we love.

Oh my gosh. So of course like starting out, like we think of how, like Oliver and Marcus are written in this story, which I when I first read this I was like, Oh my gosh, these are them for me. Like this is this is my new headcanon of like who these two boys are. And I just I love that for me and for anyone else that reads this story. Yeah, yeah, it's so great. Like especially for all of our like his he has a complex narrative because of course he's still Oliver who's on Pablo mir United like he's the keeper now he's one of the starting keepers it took him a while to get there. He's still really into Quidditch, but he also acknowledges that he was super obsessed, like in school and now he's like, it's a passion. I love it. I take it seriously. Like, that's why I'm doing Quidditch. And, and unfortunately, he like probably many people who came out of the war he suffers from extreme like PTSD so here's a you know first in our heavy topics, he will have nightmares and panic attacks and and you know, pretty much usually randomly but at night like a night situation usually nightmare influence sort of thing. And so he's been in this relationship with this guy named Shane,

and Shane. Oh boy.

Oh boy. Here we go.

Dirty Bertie.

So Shane is his fiancee from you know, we start off and it's like, okay, they're planning to get married, which is already like okay, this is this is great. How are we going to get away from this? This is a Flintwood You know, situation and No, as pores as we start reading, we realize, wow, this guy is so such a dick. Oh, he's the worst. He's definitely super, like selfish. And like, definitely I've been in a position that Oliver was in where he thinks all of her streams are silly, like, when are you going to go grow up and get a real job? And, oh, I'm not going to go support you at games, because it's boring. Why would I want to do that when I have all this work to do? And yet he expects he works at the ministry, and he expects all of her to go with him to all his parties and all these things. And all of her does, because he's like, because I'm actually a decent partner. So I do those things. But then as far as like, he just expects that Shane's not going to show up for him. Like he's just settled in that regard. And yeah, go ahead. Yeah.

Because he, you, you learn as you read that he's sort of dependent on him as emotional support, post the nightmares, post war. So really, that's the reason he's been sticking around with Shane. But really, what's so sad about this situation is not just that Oliver finds the new arrangement where shame doesn't come to the matches, acceptable, and grows into it. But it also you you realize that shame, did used to come to the matches, and did used to be supportive, initially, but it's that as time has gone on, Shane has just revealed more and more of his true colors. And they aren't very supportive. Shane is very self centered, which is, you know, one of the reasons that as a character, you're not supposed to root for him. But also, you just end up feeling a bit bad for Oliver. I shouldn't say that this fic is a bit of a slow burn in that regard. Because you so the chapters, alternate perspectives, generally. So you'll get a chapter in Oliver's perspective, and then a chapter in Marcus's and Oliver markers don't even meet each other in the Feck until like chapter five, of 19, I think it is. So it's a reasonable chunk of the text into the text. And it you read, I think it sets it up that way, precisely. So you will root for characters, and the exposition is well, you know, laid down for you before you start investing in the idea of a Flintwood relationship. But that is what I wasn't expecting coming into this fix. You know, I had no idea. But most of the Flintwood that I've read, tends to be very one shawty tends to be you know, one night standee sort of things. And this fic takes the idea of a one night stand and sort of turns it on its head a little bit. Yeah, talk about that.

Yeah, well, and then one thing that I really thought was interesting, because like you said, with like Flint, like either the story is like, kind of cold open, like, oh, yeah, they hate each other. They're at each other's throats. How do we turn this into a romance situation? With this one, both of them acknowledge that they haven't thought about each other, since they left school. Like when they saw each other when they finally meet each other. Both were like, Okay, I remember that guy. Wasn't he the the Quidditch captain for this Lutheran slash Griffin door team, like, whatever that, you know, rivalry and obsession that was between them was just staring school. Like they were obviously super involved in the moment of the rivalry, a bit of beating each other at school. Once they left it didn't, it didn't matter. Like it wasn't that big of a deal versus you think of like reading I mean, I always it's easy to go and can change and to compare to like dreary or something. But it's like, there's always that, oh, like, even though it's like, however much time later, like I remember how I felt about the person or I've never quite forgot them. And for and of course, to me, I think it's interesting, but also I don't believe it. Like I wasn't necessarily like convinced like I accepted that that was how it was in this story. And so then they were going in to essentially get to know each other all over again. So they didn't have too many preconceived notions. They were just like, like even Marcus is the one who's like, that doesn't matter. That was back in school and Oliver was little it starts being the hothead of like, well, I remember when you bla bla bla, and he's like, Dude, that was like, 10 years ago, like, what do you or whatever, like, he's like, why are you bringing this up? Like, it doesn't matter. But But But yeah, I mean, I Gosh, I don't even remember what the initial like question was because I just got like, swooped into that with a one shot and yeah, blah, blah.

Oh, I was talking about how we were thinking about turning the idea of a one night stand on its head with this fake.

Okay, well, so of course, I mean, I think that we can put a pin in that because obviously we'll come around to that. Um, you know, meet each other

do magic you know? Somewhere else we will have the appearance that we are capable of producing a cogent thought every now and again. Yes, Continue, what do you want to say next?

So it was like, as we were saying, as far as like restarting, starting off with having a significant amount of the text as root starting to root for people, you, you meet the characters that you know that you're going to be there for. And then you meet the characters who you're like, Dude, you're like, Oliver and Marcus have toxic people in their lives. And it's them trying to navigate, how they how they live with that toxicity if they can get away from that toxicity. Luckily, event, this organ This is another one of the saddest things is Oliver is self aware that Shane isn't enough. Like he's self aware of toxin, like over and over again. He's like, I know, it shouldn't be this way. Or he ran into Katie, Bella and Alicia spin it like randomly after years. And they were like, oh, yeah, blah, blah, blah. And like your, you know, your boyfriend, like, Oh, we didn't make it and like, oh, like, he just like, he's like, wow, I don't care that he didn't. And that's a problem. And like, it was just Yeah, the whole time. You're just like, dude, just do it. And finally, I love that it was just like, he just made the choice. He's like, You know what, I'm not happy. Like, I'm done. And I'm leaving right now. Just went to his sister's house and, and cut it off in comparison to Marcus who's in the he's in a position where he actually came out relatively early, like, at least to his family. I think it was like 15 1415 when he actually yeah, that was family seems right. Yeah. And so his parents have known that he's, you know, that he is gay. But the whole time of course, they are of the mindset of like, oh, this is a phase like this isn't, you know, you're just trying to rebel like, you're just, this isn't going to be you forever. And their entire goal regardless of him having an older brother, like what is I mean, I feel like these guys should fit his parents should be happy that they have he has an older brother Chris, who has a pureblood girlfriend soon to be fiance sort of thing. And yet they're trying to like they're shopping for pure blood heiresses to marry to Marcus and so like Ill Luckily for him, I don't know how he how he got away with it. Because as far as we understand, he's still getting money from his parents, like his sister, his older sister doesn't because Amy who's his oldest sister, she married a Muggle and therefore, like, that's right, she sort of get slack family style was like, literally cut off and is pretends you know, for those that watched in Konto, like, she's the Bruno like you don't

talk about

we're into the Disney references.

15 minutes in, that's late for us. I'm proud of those that we've managed 15 minutes with nothing. So you're lucky listeners, actually, you know, if you didn't come here for my singing then what are you here for?

So, so of course, there's Amy who Marcus knows how she lives and how it's like she loves John and is happy in her choices, but he knows how much it hurt her to have been cast out of the family. So for him, it's been hard for him to navigate, like, how can I be who I am, but also have my parents accept me even though I know it's impossible. And the only way it's going to happen is if I fit into what they want me to be but I also know I can't do that. And of course his him processing things is is very different. Like from the very beginning the history of Marcus ever he has only slept with people once and he and he's definitely like he's getting around like he's just having one night stands with muggles only because he knows that he can he doesn't he doesn't have a phone so he can't save phone numbers or like he'd be able to shake which by

the way is the worst excuse in the world. Like how easy would a mobile phone be to procure? I know, I know. It's just Oh, you can't contact me because I don't have a phone. Come on. Yes, yeah. Sorry. To cut across your point. Yeah, he's just

yeah, he has it. He has this one bar that's like the bar that he'll go to and it's funny because obviously he'll see all the people that he's like slept with, but he's like, yeah, just ignore them. Like I just ignore them like no big deal sort of thing. And so and He and He, that's his like issue of like him not being able to be in a relationship or feeling like he deserves to be in a relationship. And there's just there's so much about Marcus's character that's obviously a lot of like, self loathing. And next and accepting the fact that it's like, I'm not a worthy person. And that's just who I am. Like, he's literally accepted that he's not, you know, worth having more than just, you know, what he's what he's doing and what he has. And it's just,

it's so sad. Yeah. And it's sad, because that's, of course, the reality for a lot of people in that position is that they, that other people's homophobic ideas end up rubbing off on them. And they get sort of internalized, and you sort of think, no, maybe I'm not worthy, maybe this is all I love or amount to maybe, you know, I don't know if this was was me reading too much into Marcus's character. But I sort of felt like maybe, because of the pressure, his parents were putting him under with, you know, having to find an heiress and conform that the lifestyle he was choosing, like he couldn't commit to anybody big precisely because he was like, I, he actually says in the text, or Well, I don't know if he says it out loud. But we have those moments of introspection, where he's like, I can't be emotionally vulnerable with anyone, because they'll get too close. And I can't let anybody get too close. And there's that thing of, I think there's a very relatable impulse to want to push people away, to save yourself. And then from the further heartache of, you know, whatever, whatever it might happen to be. So well, even though it is odd, it was that part of it, I thought it was very well written, because certainly to me, that had a code of relatability to him.

And a lot of it was stemmed from his parents, like I think something that he thinks about, as he and Oliver start getting closer is like, I don't let people in because letting people in means that they have to see my parents and how they treat me and therefore how they would treat them. And it's just like, he's, he's just trying to put on the strong point of like, I can take this, I do take this, but I wouldn't wish it upon anyone else. So I'm not going to do that, you know, for anybody. But But yeah, so once we get into them actually meeting, so it's funny, because like, Oliver just has this moment, where you just want to be like Huzzah, like, he comes, he comes in and he's just like, You know what, I'm done. I don't I don't love him anymore. Like, it's just I can't do this. And he just literally leaves and goes to his sisters, I think, and, and oh, okay, you need to talk about like, so he obviously breaks up and he knows it's the right thing to do. But of course, he's only known this relationship for I think five or six years, like a long, right. You know, they've been together a long time. And he goes into obviously his state of post breakup depression, and spent a whole day in his pajamas, while his sister and her husband is at work. And he watches friends.

There's a specific note in my notes. Like, I love that depressed, Oliver watch his friends all day. Again, massively relatable. We've all been there. I love that. And that was a moment as well, where his sister acknowledges it. And she goes, so you've just been watching friends all day. And he goes, Oh, that's what it's called. Oliver. It's right there in the titles.

Do you see it every single time? Friends? Obviously, it's not even present in whatever. And so of course, like the biggest thing that I mean, I don't necessarily think is like the healthiest way to move on from a breakup. But his biggest thing was like, deal with the way for you to get over it is to move on. I'm like,

speak to me right away.

Like, even if he is acknowledged, like I am not in love with this person anymore. Like it's still a loss of something that he'd invested in for so long. But I think what what was in his favor, was that he he wasn't, I don't think he was prepared or ready to actually do it. Like he goes, he has to like, look up. What is it? He's his sister's boyfriend or husband or whatever is like hey, yeah, yeah, hey, use the My Computer and you can look up to try and find some sort of gay bar nearby. And so he like looks up and finds this Muggle gay bar and decides to like go and of course that's the one that Mark is frequence and it happens to be the night that Marcus is like, quote, unquote, not in the mood because I think he just had like a blow up with his family sort of thing. He's literally just going to hang out there because it's just, it's where he goes like, that's where if he's not at, I think Adrian and Terrence are together and he'll like, go see them. But as far as like, we don't know him having too many friends or social life out of him literally going and pulling every night. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, that's literally his life is I go to work. And then I go to the bar, and then I go home. It's just, um, so I think for all of her and Marcus, it was an instance of, oh, wow, if I didn't see you here, I probably wouldn't have gone home with anybody like, either of them. Like I feel like all of you would have a hard time thinking about like, just like, a stranger. Like, I feel like he would probably freak out by that. Like, it would just he wouldn't be right do that.

Like, unlike you say, it was so soon. It Yeah, so soon. It's a very quickly to go from I'm leaving you I can't do this anymore. to then be like, let's go and have a quick bang in the lose. It's it right, you know? Yeah. You know, that's, that's very fast, and I don't, besides which I don't think Oliver ever was that character. Anyway, he's sort of characterized in this fic as a bit of a softy, you know, that comes across in his, you know, being the more initially anyway, the more emotionally vulnerable one, and, and that is, how he is in my headcanon as well, especially in this pairing. But he like you say it just it happens too fast, he wouldn't have been ready for it. And I think it's one of those ones where the author is setting us up for Look, here is this serendipitous moment where they were these two friends from school meet each other in circumstances they shouldn't be meeting each other in. And because of that, then they start to become your they feature in each other's minds more.

Yeah. And the way I think that this is also like you said, like serendipity. Like it's also an instance where when you're not necessarily looking, you find you need sort of thing. So I hate that, by the way. Oh, no, no, no.

So much. Like, I know,

I've been not looking for years. Well, how are you?

Wendy, Wendy cope has a poem, and there's a line in it. There's something about bloody men are like bloody bosses, you wait for about a year. And just as you're about to board, one, two or three others appears. Gosh, yeah. It's so that that is so relatable about the spec as well. But yes, I definitely feel like it is just it's that moment of when you're not expecting it. That's when it strikes.

Just like any fanfic tropes. It's not that doesn't happen in real life. But that's why we love it so much. It's all about Yeah, yeah. Yeah,

maybe we like fanfic bis precisely because we don't like real life. We're, like, bored of the way that the rules of real life work. We need to see it working. So okay, like, eventually, this fic does come round to that. Of course, there are some roadblocks thrown up along the way. And their path toward each other is by no means clear. Or, you know, what's the word? What am I? What am I trying to say? I mean, to say it's complicated, and even after they like start talking, things are a little bit all over the place. As we've mentioned, you know, there's internalized homophobia, there's all sorts of extra pressure from outside of the relationship. There's all sorts of wonderful miscommunication. And then they're both in their heads. And of course, because it's fanfic, neither one of them talks to the other one about it. So there's so much angst the angst is off the charts

but it's funny because like of course the first night they meet like I said, like Marcus is there at the bar just drawing like that's his thing that he does for fun as he likes to draw love that

love that Marcus sketches? That's lovely character detail. Yes, sorry, continue

No. And then something that we that I had canon beforehand and reading it like actually in this thick that the reason why Mark has struggled so much in school because as we brought up before, you know, accidentally it was written that he was doing seven thier twice initially before the books were re edited. Like, the reason why he did so poorly in school was because he was undiagnosed dyslexic. So he had issues learning that no one knew how to like help him, you know, help accommodate him in that way. So he was just Hogwarts is useless. Yes, Hogwarts is useless. In that regard so of course that's another reason why he has some self loathing is the fact that he never amounts to anything and his parents like know that for him like even though he works at grin got some people like Oh, Grint gods are you a curse breakers like well I work in the department but I literally just count the artifacts and the counts gold like it's like, I literally just sit there and count gold all day like and Bill is his boss, which I think is is great. So I've just bill just being there is just super fun.

You love Bill. Bill came into this is another reason dogs love this fake.

He's barely in it, but it's like he's there. So yeah, and that was another fun thing. Like, like Fleur will come. And Marcus's like coworker will go nuts. Oh, you know, like, have the like Gala. You know? And Marcus is just sitting there like, Nah, it's not doing it for me. And that was something that he and Oliver talk about that they're like, Yeah, we were just watching all our friends be idiots because we are unaffected by the view. Which is so great. But, but yeah, it's okay. So it's funny. I love this. I love this so much for the author as far as like once we get to the point where it's like, okay, they're going home together. Obviously they're really into each other and it just that chemistry sparks almost immediately like even when they're getting ready to leave the whole time. They're just like, where's the closest ally where can like they just they want to get out of there. Like I think all of her in particular is just like damn, I just want to climb stewed like a tree even though I'm a tree myself like it's just so but the author in the author's notes is like apologies if this smart is awful because I'm a lesbian and I don't know

who's one of my favorite authors notes

I was I was just I loved it and it was hot like all the smart scenes were still super hot like I just it was just so funny that just like sorry if this is bad, I literally just don't don't know what to do. I just don't do anything about

it. Don't know what Dickstein that's on next Mitch

Oh, no shade to lesbians. I'm sure you do know how dicks work.

You know, you just it's it's not your preference, like the party you're going to be looking in a different direction, which is absolutely valid. totally valid. But I also love the little moment of just in case this isn't perfect. I am a lesbian. And I maybe have less of a grounding in how everything right

and luckily with fanfiction like we expect things to be over done or over explained or like give gaps of like disbelief that we're just like, it doesn't work that way. But it sounds hot. So we're just gonna but I swear I mean, it was like everything that I read like I enjoyed immensely. I thought they did a really great job. So exactly.

Yes, I have no complaints. I thought everything they're about. I think they're about three detailed scenes, peppered through the thick of various intervals. And all of them were impressive. So I was I thought that was very expertly handled. I don't have any notes. I was already to have notes on the spot, because I thought the smoke was going to be like anatomically interesting after I read the author's note but then I just found myself getting lost in it which is the good sign that's what you want. You want to suspend your disbelief you don't want to be going a dick can't bend that way or plow my mic

he piled the mic

Okay, so another like tidbit so right now it's the Would You Rather challenge for Oliver Woods centric you know, works. So in our Discord. We played our writing game ministry mayhem and we decided to do an Oliver Woods centric one.

And you decided to do last night? Yeah, yeah, I

just just like oh, and we did it and there was like 10 of us it was amazing. And it was a schmuck fest like it is and it was just great. But it was like one of our one of the people Danny was like, what is it we call again when it's like instant anal and I was like pow and so that ever was setting power chips like pow pow pow. It was great. That was fantastic. Like that just happened.

But also, there was a moment where so the way mayhem works is that you get the previous line sent to you. And then you have to write something that follows on from it. And so so all you see until the very end, after everyone's written anything, is the last line before you have to go. And obviously, obviously, because this person hadn't seen further back, they only were seeing the immediately preceding line. And there was a moment where somebody was talking about going soft after having done things. And then they put in brackets if they hadn't already done that.

There was a lot of that there was like, and then what was it and then all of her passed out ever after coming so hard if he hadn't passed out already. That was the funniest thing. I mean, if Oliver Oliver passed out if he hadn't already passed out.

Do we have is it possible to link our ministry mayhem from last night in the description? We should do

that as well because we're posting it to the collection. So

you know, obviously it's very, very not safe for work. Do not read this at all. If you're in any way sensitive about anything sexual, but you know, if you are you're probably not listening to this. So like for anyone, for anyone that just wants to be lost in what they will call a fallow lunch. Of interesting diversions. Marcus Flynn is there.

Charlie Wheatley and Lee Jordan apparently so that acronym is like voyeur there, which is really random like crying about how beautiful the scene anyway.

Yeah. But anyway, go read, go read our ministry. If you haven't already. It's a lot of fun.

Literally, it's such a made such a mess.

I'm thinking I should perfect that at some point. If I do in between now. And when this episode is released, we'll link that in the description as well.

Yeah, that'd be so much fun. I just I would love to see how far you could get with all of that.

Like, yeah, yeah, I'm gonna call up so much, but it'll be great. Anyway, back to the story.

Way back in the story. So of course, they have their night together. And then what is it he accidentally like spends the night and like wakes up? And he's like, Oh, crap, I better go and Marcus, who normally as like, kicks people out, or leaves while they're sleeping. Like he's never stayed the night with anybody. He's like, Oh, yeah, go, obviously. But then he was like, Why was I not mad that he like accidentally stayed like, he's just like already contemplating that something's a little bit different. And of course, he's worried about the fact that he's like, the reason I don't I do muggles is because I know that I either don't know them or haven't met them before. I have no connection to my real life, which is the wizarding world. And so Oliver is somebody that he knows, and is a wizard, and they have history together. So of course, it's like he can't just like, forget his name. You know what I mean? Like, whoever, post him? Yeah. So it's like both of them. Even after it happens. They're like, wow, like even Oliver's like, wow, I needed that. And it was great. And then he's like, realize, like, I feel now I realized, I'm like, I don't feel bad about it. Like, it just kind of validated the fact that he needed to leave the relationship he was in. Like, that helps justify even how like weird it was that he moved so quick. It was just like, oh, that he's like, I'm not emotionally invested in this relationship at all anymore. So when he goes, he's like, prepared when he goes to get all of his stuff from like Shane's place, which of course, I'm like, if it's both your place, like who is it? Actually, of course, okay, I guess you're just gonna be the one to leave. But he

makes more sense in the text for him to leave because it's like making more of a statement. But yeah, I get that as well. Like, wait, why are you what what?

Yeah, he he had the like, I slept with someone in his arsenal in case like Shane was going to start being like, you know, try and get him to come back because Oliver's like, was afraid that he would like cave back even though he knew he loves Yeah, he's like, I need I need something to remind myself that this is you know, so that it could just cut it, you know, cut it off, which is what happened. And it just so luckily, in that regard, when it's over, it's over. Like we don't get any x, you know, we don't get extra overlapping angst with Shane. It's like he's done with Shane. And then Shane's gone and which is good, like it's not like he tries to get all of her back or the only thing with shame that we get is Oliver's parents who aren't necessarily homophobic, but they have that A micro aggressive tendency to say you don't realize are hurtful, but are and the fact that it's like, Oh, if you know if you're going to be gay, at least it's with someone as great as Shane which of course then gives a lot of pressure. And, you know, doubt and self just feeling so bad for leaving to get it and that relationship because he knows his parents loved him so much. And so that's like another hard thing to deal with too. It's just when you're with someone so long, they're so intertwined with your life, your friends, your family, everything. It's not going to be easy. So and of course his parents are like, we've been planning this wedding, like, okay, I get it, like that's gonna be a mess. Like you have all of this going on. So, yeah, I mean, but even like when he first was like, Oh, I'm not happy. I'm gonna leave and he's like, so the wedding's off. And he's like, Yeah, Shane, the wedding's off. And he's just like, okay, and he's like, What the fuck? Okay?

So antiseptic about the whole reaction is because the so you start to get this impression whenever you first meet Shane, and I think Oliver is coming back from a Quidditch match. And Shane is doing work at the table or something he has his laptop open and doesn't look up from it. Like Hills he says like Hello, but you get put the text is very good at showing you how disinterested Shane is. In really any of all of his life. Yeah, it's like it's like the one moment there a couple legitimately is whenever all of his waking up through his nightmares. And Shane is there to provide that comfort for him. But but that that's it in every other respect. He's a complete douchebag

Yeah, and even though like the first time we meet him, Oliver as has won the game, he goes out to celebrate. And then there's this like Dick that was on the other team who was just going around like God, yes, Chad, who of course, like keeps like using homophobic slurs at him saying like, you shouldn't be in the league, you people like you shouldn't be allowed. And of course, then Oliver's like, say it again. Say it again. And he does. So he punches him. And so it was enough to like wreck his, you know, his hands. So when Shane saw that his hand was like bleeding or whatever. He's like, what happened? And he told him what happened. He's like, why did you punch him? You shouldn't have let it you know, get to you or whatever. And he's like, seriously?

Yeah, you shouldn't have lashed out. Yeah,

he's like, You didn't you weren't there. If you were there, maybe then you could have, you know, talked me out of it or convinced me, you know, a better way to react. But if someone's coming at me so hard, like, I'm not like, he's, he's in there in a bar. Like, it's not like you just like walk away. Like, he just dealt with it. And so that was another thing too. Like, yes, it wasn't the best way for him to handle it. But we understand why he did what he did. Because it sounds like he sees this guy a lot. And he's just always like this. And finally, he just was like, over it. And so then Shane wasn't in his corner in that regard, either. So you were already seeing like, oh, he does. He got home and he didn't say anything until Oliver was like, Oh, hi, I'm back. And he's like, Oh, hey, Oliver. Like, and I mean, it's just anyway, we've we've spent so much time on Shane, let's move on. We don't like Shane Shane is is is he's he's gone. Thank God and Shane is

a disaster human. We're pleased that more of the thick isn't devoted to him. It's now moved to a point in the thick where he doesn't feel okay. So what do you want to talk about? We're going to talk about like, the beginnings of the sort of the Friends with Benefits thing that that I believe in? It's not even friends with benefits. It really is just for bodies. Yes. It's literally operate over to each other whenever they're feeling horny.

Yeah, that's literally just and obviously it shows what kind of life they live because it's just, you know, they're like, I'm just around and ready for whatever. And so like in the beginning, like obviously, they had planned on it not happening it happening again. But both of them couldn't stop thinking about it. And so then when they actually had that next moment of seeing one another at grid gods that we talked about in the last episode, I still love that moment because it's like, oh, you know, I couldn't stop thinking about you and then all of a sudden I see you for the second time in like the span of a few days and I haven't seen you in however many years. And so then Oliver's like waiting like and Bill Oh, I love this bill like knows something's up like he can tell. And he's like, you're you're pretty close to being done counting that like Can't you get like you can give it to your coworker. He'll finish it up leave early. And like so of course Marcus leaves and runs into Oliver because all of her is just chilling in the entryway, like just sit and read a magazine for no reason. And so then they talk and then they realize like, oh, I can't stop thinking about it's like, want to do it again. Yeah, let's do it right now. Yeah. They literally just like leave and go to do it. And so then they decide they're like, oh, it's is going to be casual like even Oliver's like, all well, Marcus is like, I can't do relationships, I don't want you to catch feelings like we're just, it'll just be strictly sex and then Oliver's like, I'm not ready for relationships, that's not what I want. So we're just going to do it this way. And so that's how it was for a long time, like weeks or even a month or longer than that That's literally how it was was just them. Like you said, like either sending an owl or showing up at each other's flat like okay, let's, you know, do this. And it isn't until like there's we start seeing because all because even though they're just doing that they're still they're still woven into each other's lives. So the moment we start seeing things shift is when Marcus starts having his issues with his parents, and of course that comes home with him. And so the next time all of our comes over, he knows something's wrong. And of course, the sweet Oliver that he is, he's like, I know, it's not my place to ask, but I do care about Marcus and I want to support him. But if he's not comfortable with it, I shouldn't, but it just it still bothers him. And it reaches a point till eventually, like Marcus is like I he has to tell him, at least to an extent what's going on. Because alvers just losing his mind. He's like, just just telling me enough, like, let me understand. So that, you know, so. And we get that turning point when eventually, like Marcus had had actually told the family, I think it was the green grasses, Daphne green grass was gonna propose, like, given you know, they were gonna be engaged. And he's like, Oh, well, you know, too bad. I'm gay. And he says that like, literally to the whole table that his dad has like fire eyes. And you could tell like, yeah, like he would tell the girl in private and then should like she'll be relieved. Well, he knows by saying that in front of that family that it's going to get around. Like, it's going to get around and everyone's going to know. And but I guess like, Chris, that the family does a like yearly holiday, like Christmas party, or whatever.

Yeah, let's do. And so Chris tells comes to Marcus because of course Marcus has to go. And he's like, just so you know, the green grasses and our parents are, both are under the impression that this is just a phase. So when you go there, like you're there to be, essentially be there with Daphne sort of situation. And they're going to try and get Marcus to actually like, except to something like that. So then Chris is like, is there anyone you can bring with you? And of course, Marcus is like, no. And then he's like, Well, I guess I could ask Oliver. But that would be weird. Because we're not boyfriends. Like, he's just like, maybe he could just help me out. And so that's like, the turning point of the relationship of oh, we going it's like, yeah, we're just pretending. But then when pretending you realize it's like, it feels natural. Like it wasn't, it wasn't forced. And yeah, Oliver was able to see firsthand the way he's Marcus was treated by his parents. And it was bad enough to the extent that he literally just like, they like apparatus, like out of the party and just left. And then Marcus broke down in tears, like right in front of all of her wanted comfort all over, gave it to him wanted all of her to stay over and they literally just, like held each other like the the whole night long. And that's when everything kind of changed. But of course, Marcus being who he is, is just convincing himself of like, Oh, we're still obviously we're still not emotionally, you know, involved or whatever, even though things slowly start changing. And even Yeah, even Oliver's aware of this is, you know, this is definitely different. And I think they ended up like having some sort of fight either before the party or whatnot. And so then Oliver's like, oh, yeah, we're not exclusive. And if he's going to be addicted to me, like, I could just go find someone else and goes to the bar. And that's when he finds out from the bartender like, Oh, I haven't seen Marcus in weeks. And yeah, it's like, Oh, are you like a thing? Because he's only ever slept as far as I know, with one a person guy wants Yeah, and so he's just like, wait, what's so special about me? Why am I worried about what's so special about me? And it's just so it's this whole, it is like, even though they get involved, it is still a slow burn. Like it's still them very slow, but we get to see their mindset and how it grows together the whole time. And you know what's going to happen, but it does come very gradually, but it's just there's, there's even those moments like eventually he's like, Oh, I'm gonna invite Marcus to come to my Quidditch match. And Marcus is like, oh, yeah, that'd be fun. I haven't been to a Quidditch match and forever like not really thinking about it in any regard. And it's just they start doing like the boyfriend things and it's okay

without even consciously realizing it. Neither of them written either of them gets this. This is the irony of Marcus going don't cut feelings is that the Tired, tired? He's thinking about Oliver. He's catching feeling. Yeah, like the whole point of this was like, I need to distance myself. But like, the flip side of that is part of him subconsciously, is aware of just how much he does care. And so I think it's actually after the Quidditch match whenever. Because Oliver has I think they have a Fallout, or there's some sort of disagreement, but then Oliver meets up with is it Katie and Alicia and they say oh no like this is Marcus actually does love you he does have feelings for you on the spot it when he turns up

he was like enamored he wouldn't he didn't take his eyes off you like at the gate? Yeah. Like he's like, of course, I looked at him when I caught when I saved a goal because he's obviously going to be looking at me but didn't had no idea that Marcus was literally watching him the entire time. And yeah, so they just they have those moments of like, an Oh, and then there's the first instance where because like they had the moment of after the party of like, okay, all of her stays over. So then it starts going like, it's okay, if we stay over like it's fine and like, oh, we cuddle now and it's just but it's still just it's just cuddling. Like, we love nothing. And Oliver has his first nightmare with Marcus there. And so then Marcus sees for the first time his that instance and that's when he opens up about Shane to Marcus and how he was treated there. And even Marcus is like, for as much as like toxicity as he experiences in his life. He's like, immediately is like, Dude, that was emotional abuse like that. You don't deserve that at all. Like that's, you know, you you need something more and so, Oliver's like an even in his head. He's like, I never really thought of it. Like when you think abuse you think like physical, but it was definitely very much like mental emotional, like abusive behavior. So they're healing together like they're healing. You know, like Marcus has seen Oliver's demons, Oliver has seen Marx's demons and yet they have no feelings for each other. Like, but then all of our being Oliver is like realizing he's like, Hey, I've been in a relationship for like six years. And this is what you do in a relationship like, we after work. We go to one another's house, we talk about our day, we eat together, we watch TV, we go out and do things. Like we stay at each other's house like yeah, we have sex, but then we cuddle and we sleep together and whatever. Like you're doing boyfriend things. And so when finally, like, I think he either is convinced or like because everyone is like, Oh, he's your boyfriend. Like he's totally your boyfriend. Like no, no, we're not together. It's like, Dude, he's your boyfriend. So then he's like, Okay, I gotta like, bring it up. And of course, him being the rash Gryffindor that he is is like, Marcus, like, what are we doing here? You know, we're, we're doing boyfriend stuff. And he's like, No, I told you to not go catching feelings. And he's like, Oh,

flag to me.

Yeah. You said no kissing, no cuddling, no staying over each other's houses. No doing anything that like it was like, look at all these boyfriend things that we do together. And of course, Marcus is just like free. Like he freaking out like we I think at this point, we're in Marcus's head, like it's Marcus's point of view. And he's just in a panic. And he's like, no, no, no, no, this is not what I wanted. This is not and he gets mad about it. And of course, they have this big fight. Oliver's hurt. And then Marcus is like, fine. I'm gonna leave and I'll just like, fine. And then Marcus has that instance of like, hesitation, even though he's the dick. Like, he's the one who's like, No, I can't do this. I'm over this. I'm leaving. And I'll overs like, fine. And he's like, waiting for all of her to stop him. But it's like, why would he when you made it very clear that you don't want anything like why are you expecting him to keep pushing for it? And so then he leaves. And he of course goes to the bar, because we have Mr. Bartender, who's the one who's always there and sees everything. Yeah, talks to Oliver. And talks to Marcus. Oh, my gosh, we have to talk about New Year's Eve. Yes. At the bar. They're like, Oh, yes. His friends to the bar because there's a New Year's Eve thing. And, and Marcus tells all of her about like, Oh, it's just a Muggle thing, like at midnight. Like you just kiss someone and they like kiss and it's the

first and then he goes muggles of wicket.

And it's the first time that they kiss. And it's not in the instance of like something sexual, like gonna lead to something sexual. It's like that passion of like, I just want to kiss you and I don't want to stop kissing you like and so it just that was kind of the start of everything too. They had gone to the ball together and had that vulnerable moment. Then they actually started going out and doing things together. It transitioned to all the boyfriend things. So finally, I can't remember who who Marcus talked to whether it was Terrence and I don't I think it was I don't, I don't think it was any of his siblings. I think it might have been but he taught

Harry and Terry. Oh, it was,

it was the bartender. What am I saying? I was like, going for full circle of he's like, oh, like you and your boyfriend broke up. He's like, he is my boyfriend. He's like, um, you guys have been together? How long now? And I can just like, it's just why why not? Why isn't he and he's like, oh, like, he just he goes through his mental process of like, I'm still scared. Like, I don't want him to be in the life that we have to deal with my parents. I don't want him to. I'm not worthy. Like, that's the biggest thing. I'm not worthy. I'm just a guy who counts. You know, like, counts money for and gods like, I don't have anything great going for me like Oliver had Shane, who was great. And he's like, I'm not attractive. And of course, all over the whole time. It's just like, I'm just so into you. Regardless. It's like, Your crooked teeth are adorable. Like, he's just so you know, it's like anything like you when you fall in love with some people. Like even if there's like that initial like, not super intense attraction. As you get to, you fall for somebody, all of a sudden, you're just like, no one else matters. And that's like, and that's what happens when they're like, Okay, we're not exclusive. And they'll go to the bar, but like, no one interest them because they're comparing them to Oliver or comparing them to mark to

each other. Yeah. And so

it's just the whole time. Oh my god, it's it's so good. So finally, the bartender's like, are you going to seriously like, walk away from this and have nothing and be miserable? Or are you gonna risk it it being amazing? Or if it's going to end up bad? Like, you'll just get, you know, you got to try like, how are you going to know if you don't try? And so

then finally, with having a vacay music, essentially, yeah. And so

that of course he goes, he goes to Oliver's flat. And of course, Oliver opens the door, and you can tell that Oliver's just like bags under his eyes, obviously has been crying, you know, just just total mess. And he's just like, Oh, why the fuck are you here? Because you were literally the biggest dick to me, like not even a day ago, like what the heck is happening? And the

first line is actually if you're here for sex, forget about it.

Yes, yeah. If you're here for sex, forget it. And he's like, no, no. And so then, and then the first thing Marcus said is like, did you have a nightmare? And he's like, No, because that was like his first instance of like, being worried about him was like, did and he's like, No, I didn't. And so then finally goes in. And that's when Marcus finally sits down with him and does like, I have to tell you why. I said what I said and did what I did and what my fears are. And then they were able to work together on like, and Oliver's like, I'm still all in, like, all of those things. I acknowledge, and we will get through it together. And I don't care because I want to be with you. And then we see the, you know, passage of time of them being together, I think, like three months or so. And they're obviously like, so happy. And even the instance with like his parents, they go for the engagement party for Chris and even a Marcus's sister who was like, disowned, essentially was there with her husband, the Muggle, and ultimately, eventually, like, the parents were like, well, we don't agree with it. We don't like it. But I guess it's just it is what it is, like, we just have to it is what it is. And of course, Marcus is like, he wants more like he wants, he wants them to accept him. But he knows that's not going to be there. And even his sister's, like, leave at Marcus like, this is the best we're gonna get. And if we want them at all, this is pretty much how it's going to be. But it's just it's so lovely to just see how they work through all of those things, and how much like, just like, especially for all of her like everything that Mark is supplied for him was what was missing with Shane. And then everything that Marcus didn't know how to work through or be able to handle on his own. Oliver is there to support him completely. It's just yeah, they're just so wonderful. Like, they're just so wonderful together. And oh my gosh, what is this? Like? There was like, because I think I don't know if it was after he realized that Marcus only slept with people once Oliver got insecure about the fact of like, if I don't change things up, like he'll get bored with me. Oh, yes. saying so. And so then he finally he offers he's like, I can bottom this time if you want. And of course, Marcus is just like, seriously, like, like that, just where did that come from? And he's just like, oh, no, I want to do it. But he was like, he was like scared if I if we don't, you know, mix it up or whatever. And yeah, I just, it was funny to like, how how Oliver was kind of caught off guard at the beginning that Mark is like, I'm fine with whatever, like I don't really care like and he's like, Oh, you've never bottomed before. And he's like, No, Shane. Never let me like, you know, sort of thing and he's just like, Oh, he's one of those. Kinda like Marcus.

Like, how about him?

Yeah, so Marcus is like, I'm fine. I'm good with either so then, you know, it's just it is it was that Was that was nice to the fact that they were able to kind of do role reversals and be able to give each other like all of what they needed without, you know, any limitations and things like that. And I don't know it just the whole time. It's really slow. It's very emotional. There's so much angst, but it's just so beautiful, how and how everything like ends up and when it ends. I'm like, That's it. It's over. It's just, it's so good. But there's just so many elements in the timeline that you're just like, Oh, here's a significant driver that starts it's like a domino effect of like, Oh, here's the thing, and this one falls and then here's the other thing and that one falls and it's like that slow trickle of how things go. And and I love all the representation of like, of like gayness we have. We have Oliver and Marcus, and we have Jen, who's the seeker and puddle Mir and her girlfriend loose or Lucy. And then we have Katie Bell, and Alicia spinit. And we have parents hEGGs and Adrienne PUC together, it's just like, everyone aside from like, the siblings who are like I'm gonna be I'm the sister who married a Muggle like. Like that seriously? What it's like and oh, and I love the I love what is it? When When Oliver brings Marcus over to meet his sister, Amelia, and then what is it Jacob who she's with or something like that? Yeah. And Marcus and Jacob start getting into this intense conversation over like Muggle versus wizard money, and like how stupid but like it just like it, they're going back and forth. And then it gets into saw like soccer or aka football versus Quidditch and, and the whole time, which is, is every everyone who doesn't like Quidditch uses this argument, which is hilarious. Like, I love those instances where those there's things that people are like, this is what I think and believe. And this is the rhetoric that we all say, you know, like, there's always that one thing that is said, when you believe what you believe he's like, the only important person is a seeker. Like if the seeker catches the switch, and it's over. Why are you guys even doing all the other things? And of course, Marcus is like, you don't understand Googlebot and Oliver's like, Dude, I've been having this discussion with this guy for years, like, you're not gonna get through to him. And he's just like, I don't care, blah, blah, blah. He just like it's, it's just so funny, like watching him get into it with. It's just, it's just so fun. I

know exactly. I know exactly what you mean, it's the joy of seeing people being comfortable with their own passion. Because Oliver for so long has been told that like, or it's been implied that Quidditch is bad. And like, it's a it's like, it's implied that it's a school kids game. And it's not really a serious career, and he's not taking himself seriously. And it really, that's a big source of shame for Oliver, then, because it's so much of his passion is bound up in that. So then when he's with someone, because he sort of comes to the realization that, if ever I'm going to be if I'm going to get with someone they have to be as on board with this passion. Yeah. As they think if anyone could be It's Marcus, right? And we see that then in that conversation with Jacob, where he's just like, No, I'm not gonna I'm like a dog with a chop, I'm not gonna let this go.

And it's just that, that instance of Oliver watch, like just watching and it'd be in being validated in that feeling like him just be like watching Marcus, be passionate and talk about the things and him just being like, wow, I've like I have it. Like, I have what I wanted and needed, and he's there and he's perfect for me and wonderful. And it's just and even like the siblings see it, like all the siblings are on board, or just like, from the moment I met Oliver, or met Marcus, I liked him. Like it, just, you know, and that was that was something that Oliver was obviously worried about, if like anyone his parents was going to, like, compare to Shane, which he hated that that would happen to Marcus and but it's but obviously Marcus is different. So eventually, they, you know, they obviously warm up to him and all of that. And but yeah, I just Oh, and then most of their relationship when they get started until the what is it the engagement party, like they decided to be together, they had he hadn't seen his parents since the Christmas party. And so then it's later that they go for the engagement party. So the whole time like they had been together, they hadn't seen Marcus's parents again. So of course, like going into it like hey, this is my boyfriend. We've been together for however long and it's like, this is how it's going to be and you need to be okay with it. And it just, yeah, I just thought oh, like obviously we don't get everything perfect because like we said, like the parents are just literally tolerating it and that equally breaks Marcus's heart like he didn't. He knew he didn't want to walk away like Amy had because he knew what it did. into her and how it affected her. Right. But he didn't want to compromise what he needed, which was, so it was literally an impossible task. So I could see why he didn't want to invest in anything emotionally or a relationship because he didn't know how to navigate one in his life. Yeah, like, how do you even have a relationship when, with parents doing that? Like, it just would literally disregard or whatever? Like it just, yeah, it's just, it's just yeah,

but also it, you know, it's, we might not like to read it, because these aren't ideal circumstances within which to form a relationship that also is realistic, that a lot of people are emotionally distant or closed off, or have passed baggage or, you know, have to work through things in order to get to a happier place. And the thing is, like, what's that saying? It's a quote from somebody, but it's not about finding somebody with no baggage, it's about finding someone who will help you unpack that. It's that thing? And I think, you know, they are that for each other in this fit. Definitely, that's the impression I got. Some of it was very on the nose about how, like, in the certainly some of the gay culture I've been exposed to it is very much you shag first and then get to know each other later, you know? Yeah. And it that, I found that to be like it, it's sort of horrific reading that because it brought home to me that it's like, yeah, this stuff actually happens. This is the way this I don't want to read this into everybody's experience going off my lived experience. But I just think it's sort of what I'm not saying that we have it backwards. But it's an interesting way to approach things. And I sort of, it's not until you read a story like this, where you're like, oh, maybe there is a different way to do things. Or maybe there's a way to be to negotiate relationships with people that doesn't quite require require this sort of clinical, you know, A to B to C. Approach. I, I really do enjoy it. I had, like I said to you, I think before we started recording, I wasn't overly thrilled with the position that Marcus's parents leave in, I'm still not happy that all of his parents continue to be like, the better but they're passive aggressive. So right, it's a different minefield to navigate. My point is, is that this author has strayed away from the temptation to make this an ideal, right? And to have everything

be Yeah, the perfect happy ending.

Yeah, and have everything be dignified, like, you know, they live happily ever after, which we, as we've established from all of our Disney songs, we've been conditioned by for a very long time. But I I'm glad that the golf you know, maintain the degree of realism with them. You know, not everybody is accepting and sometimes life is a bit tricky to navigate. But what I do like is they end up in a position where at least they have each other and there are moments in this like you said, when Marcus says, you know, I think this is being emotionally manipulative when he's talking about Shane. I wasn't expecting that lucidity from Marcus Flint, right, who, you know, we canonically we just as we sat he's described by Harry as trollish and because of his teeth

and his height we go looking for him and being like, seen as dumb or whatever, which then, you know, here is it described as the dyslexia situation and oh, yeah, yeah. And Marcus is sensitive to it. Like, even though the whole time through school like he, you know, he never wanted to come off as someone who wasn't like strong and didn't care, but he cared. Like, every time someone drafted him in that way, of course, it you know, hurt his feelings. Like even when he talks about he's like, the reason why guys go home with me is because it gets around that I have a pig deck. Like, that's literally what it is. Like, I'm not it's like, I know I'm not a looker. But I think that you know, guys are happy to come home with me because at least I'm fit and you know, like,

I think Flint is probably a locker I think. I think he thinks he isn't because he gets in his head about his teeth. He's been told that he isn't one. But I mean, we know that we know that he's burly and muscley. Like he has to be he has to be thick with two seats right like that's just the way of that and I think like it for me this tapped into a really a I don't want to say a real nerve with me. But I think we are all our own worst critics when it comes to how we look what we're like how we think, how we act. And I think he's really, that what this fic establishes is, he's been in his head about that for a while he's convinced himself, like you say, he's not worthy. But I also think the, you know, only sleeping with anybody wants thing comes from that position of feeling really insecure, feeling like you don't have anything stable or continuous to offer somebody because you think at some point, they're going to find out about you or be put off by you, or whatever it is that it happens to be like that mental trips, which happens. And I'm most pleased that obviously, I'm pleased for Oliver that he ends up with somebody that can balance him out. But I'm pleased for Marcus, that he ends up in a position where he doesn't feel like he like that's all he is anymore. Like I think he gets to a point where he's like, Oh, I've been looking for my parents approval, because there really haven't been very many other people that I've cared about in my life. But now that there is somebody, some one else that I can look to, and who wants to grow alongside me, I'm gonna be like, it's much more wholesome for me to be looking for their approval than anything else, you know. And I think he, he like comes to approve of himself through that.

But playing off of the, you know, attractiveness factor, something that really stood out to me, which I loved, that even Oliver was aware of like, the moment like the moment he realized that Marcus stopped, like, started smiling with his teeth like and not caring, like the effortlessness of his laughter, and like being happy and showing like himself, 100% versus his insecurity, like Oliver, that's part of the reason what, like really brought him to fall in love with him because he's like, I can see the genuine person there. And I love it. Like, I love your crooked smile. Like you're, you're the one of the most handsome guys I've ever seen. Like, why are you saying that about yourself, like, it's just all there just everything that the other person needed, and it's just perfect. And I'm just so emotional about all of this. I just love this pairing so much. And I just love how how all the characterizations like even the OCS like the siblings and the friends bringing in the like the past Quidditch friends from you know, Gryffindor and Slytherin like they all served a purpose that really helped you know, grow the narrative to so it wasn't just us seeing the two guys on their own like it was helping them grow separately with your friends and having the friends support of seeing like hey, this is actually something that you should hold on to and like it just there's just so much I just I really love this like I had read it once and then I reread it again for before doing this episode and I'm just like I loved it just as much the second time as I feel like I'm really in love with the Marcus and this just because of how vulnerable he was and how much how broken he was but then watching him heal and how much he needed Oliver and how much they needed each other but I loved this Marcus because we almost always like I'm not mad like I'm totally down for like super like, you know like gruff aggressive like stuffy you know, Marcus or whatever. Like you said, when we talk about one shots or things like that it's just like bullheaded Marcus, but to actually see him with issues and him struggling to navigate them and accepting them as like, this is how it is and I'm broken and not worthy. Like and even Oliver feels that like he's just like, why would anyone want me because I'm broken. Like I I'm never going to stop having these nightmares. Like, I'm never going to you know, but even that empowering moment of him having his first one by himself and being able to pull himself out of it to be like, I can do this. I don't need Shane like but then the next one he has is with Marcus and Marcus is there for him. And I think that's another reason why Marcus was okay with them spending nights together because Marcus was worried about him. So it was like they it just it's just how it happened like Marcus dude. Dude, you caught so many feelings like you know, just so silly. Like the whole thing even Oliver's just like, straight to the point like and even mark is after he leaves he's like, leave it to all verge just be the freakin Gryffindor about the situation and just spring that on me like, like I wasn't prepared. Oh man. It's just so, so so good. I just I loved it so much. I just there's so many good, good, good.

I do. I do love it. They love them together. I do get frustrated by how many obstacles they throw in their own way by not communicating. And by insisting on being difficult with each other, and by having these weird stipulations not just about the like, not staying over, but then also at the ball. Mark is pretty prefixes it by going, oh, there's gonna be no kissing. Yeah, but I'll put my arm around you and I'll you know, well. There'll be some stuff so that the whole idea of it is that they approached the bull, like one big fake dating exercise, right?

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But then the whole time Oliver's like, slowly, like, I'd be okay, like kissing you on the cheek or something. He doesn't say it. But he's just like, I have to go with what, you know, Marcus is comfortable with. But then Oliver started to realize, like, I could do other things. And then they have their moment when they go to the New Year's party. And they just like kiss and they kiss in front of people. And it doesn't even matter. And, and that was another thing too, that like he brought up the bartender brought up to Marcus was like, I was there. I saw that kiss. You don't just kiss someone like that. Like, yeah, there's something more than that. And I know it and you know it like, so. Yeah,

exactly. The bartender in this thick is proxy for a therapist, because all of the best advice comes from the bartender, the unnamed bartender, but also a bartender, think about what they do they literally dispense medicament, right? It's it literally like you are literally being a proxy therapist in this situation. And both of them literally go to this unknown person for counsel. It's so like, this is the this is why I imagine it's a Dumbledore type figure, where it's like, I'm just gonna, like, say that I'm standing back from the narrative, but really, I'm the architect, you know, pushing the two of them together.

Yeah. And I love that like, the last moment we see. The bartender is with Marcus at that moment. And at the very end before he leaves, he's like, and by the way, my name is Gavin. Like it just like after all that even Marcus even says, he's like, Man, I really should ask the dude his name. I've only been coming here for years. Like, you know, I just like since he was 18. And they were gonna add six years like, needless to say, we still ship this so hard. And we loved this story. And if you haven't read it, like definitely do. I mean, obviously, we gave a good, you know, lots of spoilers to be had. But we can't tell you how great you know, we can only express like, what we were moved by, but you need to experience it for yourself. Like hands down. It's it's so wonderful. It's such a great story.

I'm very grateful to this author for taking a ship that is normally attributed to like one shots and one night stands and stuff and extending that arc out to really flesh out why they matter as a couple. And this reading this reminded me why I'm invested in them so much, that they aren't just that it isn't only about their Quidditch muscles banging together. Although that is also fun. Yeah, but it's but it's also the the intensity of the relationship is deepened when you realize why that Quidditch muscles are banging together. I love that so much. I love it so much.

Oh, man, it's now I'm sad because now we're moving on from Fleetwood to something else.

I'll never move on from

school. So the shift will always be there. Yeah, they'll they'll just be there always but but ya know, I, I'm so glad we did this. Because it was it was time, it was time for me, especially me to be like, Okay, we need to do a ship that I'm like, super excited about. And luckily, you're also super excited about so I just, it was um, these will be great episodes, because I mean, even the Tomarry and the Wolfstar. Like, those were like the top our top episodes as far as listens, go. And those are obviously like people probably go in and are just like, we are just taught we are just so high. Like you could tell what we're high. So it's, uh, yeah, but it's yeah, this was this was so much fun.

Flintwood has been my OTP for a long time. And even when you like, you set up the server and everybody was joining like, when you do the little like intro and bio and about yourself, you can list you know, pairings that you're particularly passionate about. And mine were Wolfstar and Flintwood. And it was about time because we've been sort of doing not necessarily rare pairs, but we've been recently doing a lot of pairings that maybe wouldn't jump to people's minds is like oh yeah, but this for me like Flintwood Even No, they're well, I think a wrap. Yeah, certainly not a main pairing. But they should be in pairing. Because they come in, and it matters. And I care about them all the time. I'm glad we've done it. Yeah, I, my, yeah, I am. So on board with the ship, the flag is flying at full mast looks like other things.

So definitely check out like, Well, I hope I know for sure at least there's like one or two so far that are Flintwood in the Would You Rather challenge like works that were added and uploaded. So there has to be some new Flintwood Works, which is really exciting. Now.

I am so excited to read those. I really I love when those like unfamiliar settings or a use or as we know, I'm a sucker for Detective pairings. I wonder if there's a Flintwood yet where they're like on the same or a beat? Oh, maybe I need to write this maybe just like saying out loud where they want to be reading. Something's going to happen at the very least, at the very least I want to pod fix the mayhem that was written yesterday.

That would be amazing. Oh, man, that's always so fun. I'm so glad you did. It's just like, oh, it'd been ages since we played and oh, man, it was just great. It was so great. But oh,

this is normally the so I think the reason we're caught off guard listeners is that this isn't normally the place where we'd be going. So next week, except that because of the new segment that we introduced, we don't do that anymore. So now we're we're both very well that we have to sign off. But as you know, from having listened to us regularly, we don't have a sign off. I go by and makes hates it.

It's because we can't stop like how do we? How do we slow like a train? Like that's just it versus going and then all of a sudden we're like, okay, how do you like, stop talking? Keep talking. I don't I don't even know. But just Yeah, especially with this

could be 10 hours long. It could actually just be us talking for 10 hours. I mean, we'd be exhausted afterwards. But we could do it.

Like, well, when we do the like the ship, the Valentine's episode and the Christmas episode where we're reading thick, like, yeah, we're going for like three and a half hours or whatever. And by the end, like we're so tongue tied that I'm just like, wow, I can't even work. It it's just absolutely crazy. But yeah, so anyway, this was so fun. I'm sorry to say goodbye to Flintwood. But I am excited for what's to come because we're doing this till we're at so we're

there's a lot more to talk about. Yes. So

So join us next time, and we will see you through the magic of time travel. In that episode.

Hey. Goodbye.

So now that you've finished enjoying that episode, a bet you're wondering what we're going to be talking about next time. Will it be a ship? Could it be a trope? What about a character centric episode editing makes put the listeners out of their misery. Next time we'll be focusing on

it's our one year anniversary episode.

So come back to enjoy that that your really as possible convenience, but you know, preferably sooner rather than later. Because we do make it so you listen to it. And we hope you enjoy it. Remember your Gunkel Nathan's advice. Be kind to each other manager Mischeif and we'll catch you in the next one soon.