Hello friends welcome back to club Seed Club's podcast. I'm your host Jess. And today we continue on with our DAO contributor series with prolific DAO contributor Chase Chapman. And Chase is a contributor to index Coop Orca protocol, rabbit hole, pretty sure contributed to Forefront and I'm sure there's a few others in there as well. And importantly, Chase is also the host of the other side podcast, podcast that is really quite incredible. And I'm sure this conversation will convince you that you should go give it a listen. My conversation with Chase blew away my expectations, we went deep into the weeds, challenging current narratives of DAOs explored what it looks like to enter and join a DAOs as a contributor, and how we might make that process better. And Chase specifically spend some time talking about how cities and citizens might be the best way to think of DAOs and token holders, we unpack what that means so much to get into here, you're going to enjoy. So let's dig in.