Hey, hey, welcome to the summit host hangout podcast where you'll learn how to host a high converting virtual summit that leads to your biggest signature offer launch yet. I'm your host, Krista from summit in a box, and I have, like, a really juicy and unique topic today that I am so excited to dive into. Speaker applications are something I have been leaning into more, and I've noticed a similar trend in the industry. I used to really dislike them, actually, because I saw people using them as a way to kind of slack off on making strategic pitches, and then they'd end up with a speaker lineup that was not serving them, wasn't serving their attendees, and it wasn't serving the speakers who were applying. But I have changed my tune a little bit, and I do love that these applications let you get buy in from people who are excited to be a part of your event. They're more likely to promote. They also give you the chance to feature like fresh faces and topics that you wouldn't get to otherwise, and that is such a great part of using these but I will say there are nuances to the application process that are really important to pay attention to. In fact, I know there are a lot of things I haven't even considered, and I'm so excited to bring on a special guest today to talk about creating safer speaker applications and specifically those that feel more inclusive to people with marginalized identities. So before we dive in, I want to share a little bit of background on our guest. She is a sustainable visibility mentor, podcast guesting strategist and ICF certified trauma conscious leadership coach. She helps human first business owners get heard and hired for their work in the world through the power of sustainable visibility and podcast guesting strategy. She'll help you show up consistently in your business, not constantly, without compromising your capacity, boundaries or your bottom line in the process. So without further ado, let's dive in and talk with may Kay saying, Welcome Mae. Kaye, so excited to have you.
I'm so excited to be here. And, you know, just, I just want to give like, a Bravo, because I know that there's a lot of long winded language in my bio, so good on you.
It's a struggle, but we got it so much good stuff, though. I love your bio. Thank you. Yeah. Well, before we get into all the goodness, tell us a little bit more about you and your business. And I also, I'm really curious to hear more about where this whole idea for this topic came from for you.
yes, because I just want to say that this is the first time I'm actually speaking on a podcast about this. So this is very much from a place of, hey, here's what I've tried. This is how people have responded. Let me share just to see if it inspires you to tweak your own process in a little bit when you are having speaker applications for your own summits, for example. But yeah, just a little zoom out for a sec. You've already kind of given a spiel of what I do. So yeah, I do help human first business owners. And what I mean by that is a it's kind of like a two sides of the same coin. When I say human first, it means that you see your clients and your customers as a people first, versus, like, as a lead, you know, not just a number, someone that you can kind of toss away in favor of another person. Is very much like you see their humanity, as well as running a business in a way that serves your own humanity. Because we are all humans. At the end of the day, we've been through various, you know, life experiences, curveballs. We all went through covid together, for example. You know, life be lifeing Sometimes, and so I'm very much about really crafting a business that it meets the needs of your clients, for you to even have a business at all, but you're not sacrificing yourself in the process all the time, right? So it's very much away from the hustle, hustle, hustle mentality, unless that works for you. I've been through that. I burned myself out to hell, and I will never, ever put myself back in there. And I know there are a lot of folks who feel the same. So that's why I really am about having a business where I help you be seen in front of your ideal clients and customers, but not in a way that drains you, but in a way that fulfills you and keeps you going on. You know,
I love that so good. I just love everything that you're about. And I'm really excited to dive into this, like topic that's new to you today. I think it's going to be a lot of fun, and like you, have a lot of experience speaking at summits too. Yes, yes,
I do. It all started from podcast first. I because how I became, quote, unquote, known for visibility, I guess, was actually back in 2019 when I challenged myself to pitch to 101 podcasters in 30 days. And that's a side note that is not a tale of inspiration. It's a tale of caution now, but back in back then, you know, I knew that the industry standard was like quite low, anywhere between 3 to 10% for a booking rate. And little did I know that my copywriting experience and maybe just how I positioned myself, I wound up securing a 33% booking rate, which was like one in every three, which was wild to me. And I really have taken a lot of that speaking experience, and it made me quite well known in the copywriting space at first, and then just kind of like gradually expanded outwards. And because I was speaking on all of these podcasts, naturally summit hosts thought, okay, she's spoken before about something I want to cover in my Summit. So it naturally led into summit speaking invitations, which I'm very, very honored to have spoken on dozens of summits today, inside of masterminds, programs, courses, you name it, a lot of speaking experience from the podcast guesting, and it's just kind of I. Ranch just its own thing. And then last year, at the time of this recording, in 2023 I decided to plan and run my own event. I call it the not quite a summit, and I called it a thingamabob as well. And it was all around sustainable visibility. So I have experienced both speaking and now giving a platform for others to speak.
Yes, oh my gosh. You have all the experience what, what piece or what pieces of that makes this specific topic with Speaker application stand out to you, or something that needs to be discussed? Yeah,
so I'd have to say I didn't really give this much thought, I guess every now and then when I'd be filling out an application form to speak on a summit, because I wasn't always invited, I'd say about seven times out of 10 I'd be invited, and three I would apply for right? And every now and then I was curious about when folks would say, I really am committed to having a diverse speaker lineup, right? And I'm like, Okay, that sounds great. And then I would look for evidence inside of their process as to how they are making that so right? Sometimes I would even ask the host if they were open to a conversation about how they were making it be, if it wasn't obvious in their application. And I'm just saying this, by the way, from a place of I was just curious. I'm not pretending that I'm on this high horse that I get to determine what diversity is and isn't I am not. I hope it's not coming across that way, but I was just curious, right? And then when I started to see that a lot of the good intentions were kind of falling by the wayside a little bit because there wasn't very much congruency in the application process itself, that's when I really started to think about it more deeply so when I started the process of having my own digital event, my not quite a summit, right? I wanted to have applications because I wanted to go beyond my current network. Yes, I invited about two speakers out of 12, but like you said in the intro, that you changed your tune about applications because you wanted to give an opportunity for those who you otherwise would not have known about, right? So that's why I had an application process, and I had no track record of promise, of how many sign ups they can expect on their email list, or anything. I had nothing to offer aside from, hey, I think it's a great idea. Let's run with that, right? And lo and behold, I wound up attracting 85 applicants in the space of about two weeks. And that was that was like, oh, okay, interesting. And then when I actually understood why, because I kept asking questions so many of these applicants, regardless of whether they were picked or not to be a speaker, they would come to me and tell me how much they appreciated just my application. And I was like, this is interesting, and when I actually look back in retrospect, I put in a ton of intention, and hopefully the actions came through, through multiple touch points of the process, which I'm more than happy to dive in to this conversation today. And I feel like there is a gap overall between good intentions and the reality of how applications land for a lot of people, especially if you're looking for a diverse audience and calling in more marginalized voices, I think there are a lot more nuances, as you said earlier, that do need to be accounted for just to create a safer experience if they want to speak on your Summit.
Oh my gosh. Okay, I definitely want to dig into this. I am so curious. Because, you know, we talked about this on Inside the Invite of how I have paid attention to diversity in my events, and it is one of the most important things to me. Like I hold myself to a certain standard of, you know, a percentage of people that, like, I don't want us all to look the same. So I have a goal set, but when I think about the application, I didn't have anything special on there because I didn't want it to look like, check a box, you know, like, if you're marginalized, check a box and tell me more, you know, like I've seen, I've seen that on applications too, and I just as a, you know, straight white female, you know, in good health or whatever. Like, I don't know how that feels. I don't know how that comes across, so I'm so interested and excited to hear from you what pieces you put in your application. So tell us more. Yes,
all right, so there are a couple things that come to mind. So the first thing that, again, I just want to preface this by saying this is not necessarily a how you must do it. It's more of a how I did it and how it landed for people, which seemed to be quite impactful in ways that I never imagined. I never thought that this kind of response would come, where I would get thank you messages simply for asking certain questions or framing my application in a certain way. So something that I did, that I don't think a lot of people do, is when they have an application process, it's normally just a link straight to the questions, right? So for me personally, I chose to have a landing page, and that's mainly because I wanted to give an overall summary of what the whole event is about before you even apply to it. But what was really, really, really different, and I want to give a hat tip to my friend Claire panacea, who taught me about being very explicit. Of my values on my about page or my general offers, right? And I so I translated some of that over into this process before someone even clicks to apply. And basically what I did was I stated my non negotiables when it comes to values alignment, like look, do not proceed if you do not agree with all of these things, and that was because I wanted to protect and support and advocate for various members of my community with certain identities. So the things that I asked for one you are committed to anti racist and anti oppressive change to create a more inclusive and equitable world, especially for those who have been historically marginalized. Two, you also believe that trans women are women, trans men are men, and anyone else between or beyond the gender binary is both valid and welcome in your space. And three, you wholeheartedly agree that anyone on the LGBTQIA p plus spectrum deserves to be celebrated and protected for who they love. So I had those because one, the first one about the anti racism, anti oppressive change, is because I do have a lot of people of color in my community. Maybe because I'm a person of color myself, right? And so I have been on the other side of racism and oppression or being ostracized, all of that stuff. And so I really wanted to create a community of belonging, not just for my speakers, but by extension, who they would bring into the mix when they share about the event, right? And then two and three is about protecting the identities of those you know, in terms of the lens of gender, or rather, you know, beyond the gender binary, I suppose, and sexual orientation, there are people in my life, or it's me myself who identify with a couple of these things. And so I'm not going to host an event where I have a speaker who wishes that I don't exist, because a part of my identity is not something they align with, you know. So I had to really dig deep into my own identities, and also the people who I realize really come to me and who really struggle with a sense of visibility, because visibility can be triggering for a lot of marginalized people for multiple reasons, right? And so that's why, from the get go, I wanted to craft a space where the speakers who I invite are people they feel safe to learn from because of what they stand for. So that is what I started with, having my values on the page before they even get to apply.
So good like, talk about values led, right? Like you are literally leading with your values. People cannot proceed before they see your values and make sure they align with them. And you get to make sure your audience is protected. That's beautiful. I love that. Like, dang, that should be a part of our process for everything right, like anytime we collaborate with someone like making sure they align with those really important pieces that make sure our people are safe Exactly. Man, that's great. I love that.
And actually, there's a little side story to this about how this really did impact the right people. So there was actually a past client of mine who worked with me for podcast guesting, and they reached out to me to say how they wanted to apply, but they chose not to because they were actually misaligned with the values, and they were communicating that with such respect for how I wanted to run my event and how they opted themselves out because they had to be honest with themselves about how we weren't aligned all the way through when it comes to these specific values. And I really respected that like there was no there was no hate, there was no aggression, no trolling, nothing. It was very much a very honest communication how, hey, I love that you're doing that, but unfortunately, I don't meet those values, that requirement to even be a possible speaker for you. And I thought that was amazing. And I think that's what happens when you communicate with compassion. And because I, one of my core values is compassionate change making, I think that it makes an impact, so much more a lasting impact, when you allow for people to make mistakes and learn from that, instead of shaming them, like, Oh, you're not doing this, therefore you're a bad person. It's like, no, no, here's my stance. If you don't agree, fair enough, I'm not going to tell you to change for my sake. I'm just going to say this space is not for you, where you're going to feel the most authentic version of you. You know,
I love that, and that's I love that you have proof that there was actually an impact. Yes, like that it actually worked. Because, you know, if one person reached out to you, there were many others who, who didn't, who didn't, like, oh, okay, this is, yeah, this isn't for me, I guess. So that's wonderful,
yeah. And that was a client who I worked with actually, around the time when I got my quote, unquote, rise in the industry for the podcast guesting thing. So that was a long time ago, and I think that just goes to show that because of how intentional I try my best to be with leading with values and just the way I like to do my work, people stay for years, even if they don't continually buy from me, that's fine, but they still seem to stay in my orbit. And I think there's a reason for that. So. So I think that's just goes to show that when you have a human first business, when you see people for their humanity, they see you for yours as well. Yes,
this is beautiful. Okay, I love it. So they get to this page, they're like, Okay, yes, I align with all these what's the next step that they get to that kind of has all of this tied in with it? Yes.
So after they've read the summary, I also set out my expectations of like, look, I don't want to waste your time either. So after these values, they get a table of what I expect from them and what they can expect from me, like, what support can they expect, and also what commitment I would like from them. So I'm like, Hey, this is a 20 to 30 minute workshop. You know, we are going to have a pre planning meeting together, so we can really make sure you feel supported that your expertise is beautifully reflected in your workshop and it also meets the right audience alignment sort of thing, right? So something that I think is really important is just setting expectations as much as you can, and then at least, no one wastes their time when they even apply. So this is all before the application even starts, yes, and then when they get through all of that. So I appreciate for anyone who kind of like goes through all of these, I don't want to call them hurdles, but steps. They go through all of these stages, pre application, and then they finally get to the application right. So there is no one right way to do this, and you're probably going to hear me say that a lot in this conversation, but something that really comes to mind when it comes to curating a diverse speaker lineup is asking questions that not only ask them about their expertise, like, ultimately, we are going to choose people for their expertise, right? Which is great because that you can pick the most beautifully diverse person in the world, like, whatever that means to you, but if that topic doesn't align with your with your summit or your event, there's respectively no point in having them on there, because, you know, it's not going to reach the right people. They're not going to get the results they want, because it's just simply not a line. So I'm not denying the fact you absolutely need to know about their expertise and their experience, but I think something that is missing from a lot of applications is asking about how they got there, so asking about their lived experience. And for me, personally, I know that you said earlier, for example, being unsure about having a question to ask about their identities, because, like, oh, it's checking a box, right? And I don't do it in a checkbox way. I suppose. For me, I chose to ask an identity question, and I use language along the lines of, to whichever degree you're comfortable with sharing. I would love to ask you, you know, which identities do you think make up who you are? And then I make sure to explain why that is, and I even give an example. So I say the reason why I'm asking this is because I am committed as much as I can be to create a diverse speaker lineup, and that means representing identities that are both visible and invisible to the naked eye. So for example, and I list out all of my identities like you wouldn't know by looking at me, arguably, that I am on the LGBTQIA plus spectrum. That is something that I do privatize depending on which community I'm speaking with. So you wouldn't know that, right? But their identity, that you would see the fact that I am Asian, right? I'm of Asian descent. You I cannot hide that, nor do I want to, because I'm proud of being Asian now. But so I give any an explanation why I'm asking that question, and I also give an example, just so they can see what it is I'm getting at, right, and that is actually that becomes one of my pillars of consideration later on, which we can speak about later. But that becomes one of the questions I do look at when it comes to picking my final speaker. So I'm just going to stop there, pause, see if you have any questions about how this goes, or comments thoughts I'm here for it,
yeah, oh my gosh, no. I love this. I don't think I have any questions, but the way you've worded that is so perfect, so so so wonderful. You're showing so much like genuine care. You're going way beyond and you know, I need to check this box, you know, you genuinely care. And I think the fact that you like, you have your own examples to share definitely adds to it as well. I Yeah, it's just so well done, though. Thank you for sharing that.
I feel like my past training has really like come into play. So good. Yeah, so that's um, those are the main things that when it comes to applications, that you would be surprised, that that can be all it takes when it comes to not only saying that you want a diversity lineup, but actually asking the kind of questions that will help you know whether you actually are curating a diverse speaker lineup.
yes, and that's definitely a limitation I've had with my applications. Like, like I said earlier, like, I care. I do genuinely care, and it's a goal of mine. But without ever having a question like that, the only judgment I can make is going on someone's website and looking at their picture, or, like, seeing if they decided to disclose anything publicly on, you know, their Instagram bio or about page. And like you said, a lot of things are not visible, and a lot of people don't, you know, publicly disclose things just, you know, willy nilly for no reason. So I just love the way you've handled this. So let's take it a step further now. Now you have all this wonderful data. It's all. These speakers who are aligned with your mission and vision and values, and it's a beautiful thing. How do you go about actually selecting speakers once you have their applications in like and how do you make sure you're doing that in an inclusive and fair way?
Whether or not it's an inclusive or fair way, I can't comment on whether that actually is the case. I just hope that it is the case, right? So a couple of things come to mind. So first and foremost, so what I do is I export the data into a spreadsheet. So I'm literally just looking things by column. So I actually, you know how in applications, oftentimes you start with the name, I put any identifying information at the very end. And the reason for that is so I can see them for their expertise first. It is not the end all be all determination, but it is my first point of call. And the reason why I chose to do that is because, because it's actually at the time of my first event anyway, because I'm working on my second at the time of my first event, it was only me choosing. So I can't pretend that there's no bias whatsoever, you know, but I can significantly reduce it. And one of the decisions I made was to put my name or ask for their name and email at the very end. And so the first thing was asking about, you know, what was their topic they wanted to propose for this event. Is about sustainable visibility. What's your interpretation of that, and how does your expertise lend to that, right? So at least from there, I'm like, basically doing my first scan, I guess, just from topics alone, and doing that without identifying information, allows me to pick someone who's purely in event alignment with the topic, right? And then I'm able to start weeding from there. And then the next stage would be looking at the identities question. So that question that I mentioned earlier, like, to whichever degree you're open to sharing about your identities, that is what I'd look at next. And it's because I am mindful of representation. But the reason why I do the topics first is so I'm not picking because of their identity. You know, that's when, to me, it feels like it's checking the box, then it feels like it's dipping into tokenism territory. And I can't pretend that that doesn't happen, right? I'm sure to some degree I must tokenize at some point, but this is my way of currently handling the selection process by names, later, identifying information, later, expertise first, and then their lived experience later, with their identities, and then, of course, after that, I factor into things like their audience alignment. So something that I know you're very passionate about, that you you know might you shouldn't pick a speaker that doesn't have the same audience, otherwise you're not really going to help each other right at the end of the day. You want it to be a symbiotic relationship with your speakers for your Summit. So that is why audience alignment is also kind of going to count. And then I think I had more like, they weren't non negotiables, they're more like nice to have. So I would look to see their social media presence, I would look at their website. But again, they are not determining factors by any means. And I remember there was one situation where there was two people, they were, like, they pretty much had the same identity cocktail, I guess they had, like, the same topic, pretty much both very interesting, both about boundaries. And then what I looked further into was like, Is this like a one off topic for you that you're not really known for, but you can talk about? Versus, is it a core aspect of your business. And that, to me, was the determining factor for these two speakers I remember picking between. And it just so happens that the person I chose was actually a business friend of mine, but I didn't know that until I looked at her name, right? So all of these, all of these things that I do factor into my selection process. So topic, first, identity, second, audience alignment, their their online presence, so their website, social media, like these last two, again, they are like, nice to haves, right? And then the fifth one would be, is it a one off part of your work, or is it actually a core part of your work? Oh
my gosh, these layers are so perfect. I've never you know, I know I came on inside the invite and kind of shared about this, my thought process was not nearly as polished or refined or wonderful is this?
It's not polished. It's an experiment. I'll tell you, it was an experiment. I'm like, Oh, I think so.
So great, though the order just, I mean to me, feels so perfect. And just the difference in when you're looking at their name. Oh, my goodness. Because when I did my applications, I didn't do that, the first thing I saw when I opened the, you know, submitted forms was their names. I was like, oh, have to have that person, you know, like, one of the my business friends, doesn't matter what they're what they pitched, I have to have them where you didn't have that man. Like, how much better is that? Have it at the end. Have a check box where you're like, Oh, nope, that's not a fit. Just filter them all out. You don't be able to see you're able to see your friends who submitted, who aren't a good fit. Like, yeah.
Speaking of friends, I feel like this was something that I wanted to make clear, and it was, it was a respect boundary sort of thing. So one of my pet peeves, and I'm not saying my friends do this, they actually don't. I actually have very wonderful friends in. The online business world and in real life. But anyway, so I made it clear when I was putting out the application process, you know, sending out the landing page link, which led to the application itself, I said, I am not going to play favorites, so don't try to duck under the velvet rope, because that won't work. And so I didn't say that precise line, but I said something along the lines of like, Look, you can't expect special treatment, because I won't know it's you until I get to the end of the application. So you better you if you want to speak on this, then, you know, put your best foot forward when you are pitching yourself, because I am not going to know it's you until I get to the end.
I want to go host a summit just so I can have an awesome application. Although I will say, you had what, 85? I had six,
I mean, I had friends who I had business friends who really like they came out of the woodworks. I did not, I don't even remember asking so many people one on one. I think I just had a PS section in one of my emails, like, oh, by the way, if you know anyone who's interested, can you forward it? And then I saw people, they were putting it on their social media. Some even published in their their sub stack newsletter. I was like, Yo, whoa. Where did this come from? So that was cool, but yeah, I like to think that the intentionality that I hope really landed on the landing page, as well as the application. I think people really felt it, and that's why they felt compelled to share it. So who knows? Like, for those who are listening right now, if you make one of these single tweaks, you might just have an uptick in applications. You just don't know. So I'm sure you'll get more than six. You get more than six next time, I promise
I set, I set a low bar for everybody, at least. So you know, you guys got this. This is so great. Oh my gosh. I love it. I love it, okay, but like, I know I am inspired right now to just go make a bomb application, even though I have nothing for people to apply for. I know our listeners are feeling the same way, and I know you have a resource to help. Can you tell us about that?
Yes, so this is a brand new resource, and actually sparked from this conversation with you, Krista, so I'm super excited to talk about it. So if you are committed to creating a diverse speaker lineup for your summit or event, then this resource is going to be for you. And just full disclosure, this is a paid product, but I'm just going to put it at $27 and I'm going to basically take you through these exercises of how you can define what diversity means, and actually how it translates into your questions. And it's also going to be a swipe. So all the things I mentioned, like the values that I wrote, and the all the applications that I actually asked, and the order I'm going to put that into a swipe for you, so you can basically just take whatever resonates, leave behind what doesn't, and really curate it to your event and the values you want to put forward to create your version of what a safer speaking application is going to be. So you can check that out over at maikeetsang.com/swipe
oh my gosh, love it. I'm excited to grab it. I'll link to that in the show notes. I also want you to tell us about something else I brought up a couple of times inside the invite, where people can like I know you have several series, but one is about how hosts curate their speaker lineup. So can you tell us about that as well? Yes,
exactly. So I loved having you a part of season two. So just for zooming out, for those of you who haven't heard of me or this product is called Inside the Invite. It's a private podcast interview series where I asked podcast hosts, summit hosts, and for future seasons, I'm going to be asking event hosts what they look for when they invite experts to be on their respective stages. And in season two, there was a special question I asked all the summit hosts, because season two is all about summit hosts. And it was like, how do you factor in diversity, equity and inclusion? And like, how does that inform your thought process. And I was so blown away with how open, and I don't want to say the word vulnerable, but open and intimate these answers were because I think there is so much that we don't see on the surface. There's so much thought that goes behind the scenes into creating a summit in the first place, right? But when it comes to curating a speaker lineup, there are so many nuances to think about the worries about tokenism and being performative. And it was just interesting to hear how all of you navigated your own way with this question. And so the whole purpose of this podcast is, if you're someone who doesn't really like pitching yourself as much, it's called inside the invite so literally, what's inside an invitation process so that you can position yourself for invitations. Because, yes, there are things you can do for invitations, and it doesn't actually rely on your network as much as you think, which is great for those of us who are like, Ah, my network isn't that big. But no, no, it's actually how you position yourself, how you communicate your work and all those things. And there is a bonus episode that I put at the end of each season where I talk about, like, the five best things. So if you don't want to listen through all the interviews, you can just go straight to the bonus episode for the summary, like Cliff Notes version,
but the interviews are great. So yeah,
the interviews that are fantastic. And I have to say, like, I promise you, Krista, I'm not saying this because you're right in front of me right now, virtually, but you speak so concisely in a way that I'm like, Oh God, I can listen to you all day, because I think it was just so fascinating. And obviously you're the queen of summits as well, so it makes sense absolutely but your your interview was absolutely fantastic, and I just loved how clear all of your steps were and your considerations, and I appreciated your own openness to that diversity question those who identify as whites, I noticed that the speakers on that particular season, I felt more worry of getting it wrong when I heard their answers. And I thought that was really interesting. And I think to me, that just shows how much they truly are thinking about this. And it was really such an honor and a privilege for me to hear it. And so for those of you who do want to hear those conversations, as well as learning how to be inviteable on podcasts and summits and beyond. Then I invite you to check that out. And full disclosure again, this is also a paid product. It's $99 but I promise it's money well spent.
Yes, absolutely, absolutely. I'll link to that as well, and just one more question for you, like, Where can people generally go to connect with you and check out all your stuff online? Yeah, so
I think the best place social media wise is to find me on Instagram. Like, I do have a nine grid, which means I don't update my feed, I update my stories, and I'm in my DM so I even put it on my profile. You won't find me my feed, find me my DMs. So I made that clear. So that's where to find me on social. And I have to say my best stuff is for those on my email list, so you can check out inside insights. And I know I like using alliteration a lot, and this is basically my behind the business newsletter, where I share about how I'm navigating these things in real ish time, and where you can get an exclusive invite to something I like to do with my community each month, which is cup of catch up to where I get I invite people for a one on one conversation, and it's been like a little fun race, I guess, for my community, for nearly five years now, I communicate with my community one on one and I get to have such amazing conversations with them that's only for my email list. And also pop up events. You get special offers for, like, new for new things that are coming up, all that good stuff, so and that it's totally free.
I love it. Oh my gosh, so much good stuff. Thank you for sharing this. This was such a beautiful conversation. This is maybe one of my favorite topics we've had on here, because it's, it's, man, such a great way to make your events better for your attendees, to serve speakers better to just have a more well rounded, inclusive event like you know, that's what we set out to talk about. It's such a beautiful topic and thing to consider. So thank you so much for sharing, and thank you so much everyone for tuning in, For show notes and resources mentioned. Head to the link in the episode description, wherever you're listening now, go out and take action, to plan, strategize and launch your high-converting virtual Summit.
