Hello and welcome to episode 79 podcasting as positioning with brandy Whalen, who is the co founder of kit caster. Today we're going to talk about podcasting, how it goes with PR how to get ready for a podcast and a lot more.
Welcome to the PR playbook podcast, the only podcast giving you actionable skills and advice you need to execute a strategic PR program. Warning. What you hear next may lead to brand awareness, and increased sales and customer exposure. Now here's your host, Ronjini Joshua. Hi, Brandy. How are you doing?
Hi, there. So good. Thank you so much for having me on the show. Yeah, no, I I'm so happy to have you because I've got so many guests coming my way from kick caster, actually. So it's been a pleasure to meet you. Now, finally, and talk a little bit about podcasting. First, you know, just to get started, it would be great to just get a little bit about your background and keep Kassar if you will. Absolutely. Yeah. So I actually come from the world of public relations. I had a small boutique agency for about six years, specializing mostly in b2b a lot in the tech space, some in the financial space. And always incorporating podcasts into the campaigns and kept hearing feedback from my clients. They get down to the podcast, and they were like, that was so fun. Yeah, great time. I posted it on LinkedIn, some info site, I got phone calls. So it just it was interesting. It was interesting feedback, because I felt like it was it was something that they were gravitating towards more than any of the other media placements that we would we would land them. And two years ago decided to go all in on podcasts and really take the agency a completely different direction. I have a colleague that I had done. He was actually a podcast host here in Denver, Colorado. He had a business podcast, I had a few of my clients on his podcast. And so we teamed up and started kit Kassar two years ago. Okay, wow. Okay, well, no, I mean, I think that makes a lot of sense. Because when you're talking to someone on a podcast, you're able to, you know, connect with them, it's your voice. It's almost kind of like the whole premise of clubhouse, right? Like you're tiny, without having to really look at people
and be able to kind of shoot the shit about a conversation that feels good to you. And of course, you have to choose, you have to be able to choose the right podcast. So tell us a little bit about kick catcher in particular and what you guys do.
So we help get founders and C suite executives on top podcasts. So our goal is to get because the same we feel the same way. I mean, it's really connecting, right? So you want that personal connection that people have with a brand. And what better way to do that, then go on a 30 minute 60 minute podcast, talk about where you've been maybe some missteps you've had along the way people love those stories. It there's that connection that people have when you start to show your cards? No, this is who I am, this is what I've done. These are the hurdles I've had to, to jump over, here's where I fell on my face, I pulled myself back up, you know, really going into the problems that they're solving from a unique perspective. So that is that's our goal. And when we bring on a client, we're looking at their expertise, and what can you talk about for 16 minutes, and usually coming up with four or five different things that they can, they can discuss a lot on leadership. I feel like everyone's always looking for new leadership strategy. So not only talking about what they're doing in their business, but how they're organizing their company.
And then how do you how do you identify which podcasts are right for them? I mean, there's so I mean, there's just a growing growing number of podcasts that are happening at this point, and, and it's becoming such a big deal. I know during the pandemic, there was a huge boom. How do you identify what the right podcast is for somebody?
Yeah, they're 2.6 million podcasts. So that is a huge challenge. We we do a pretty extensive onboarding. We have you know, it's interesting, because we've, we've really, we systematized and created a slick process to get people on boarded and to start their campaign right away. So in the onboarding, we identify different categories that they could speak to, and we're really looking at those categories. and using our internal resource to, to look at podcasts categorically. And then making sure that they are top, top notch. So we use another resource where we're looking at, you know, are these podcasts within the 10%, that 10% range global podcasts. So those are the, that's just how we kind of vet from a surface level and then digging in deeper, to make sure that it is indeed a good fit, and it would be a good conversation.
Now, I've been seeing a lot more of these items, I used to get a lot of people just reaching out to me, you know, offering their expertise. And now I'm seeing a lot more of these, like one pagers and these bios and people talking about I mean, it's, it makes it so great for someone like me, who's always looking for content, it makes it so easy to get to identify what they're going to be talking about. But what can you tell us a little bit more about this kind of like one sheet process what people should have on their little? It's not necessarily your resume, but it's like an expert bio. How are you putting this together?
Yeah. And that's actually something we do in every can campaign is put the media become a media page. But yeah, so it's a one sheet. One of the things that I think is really important, we like to give a snapshot of who it is it's going to be interviewed. And part of that is a bio, but really what they're bringing to the conversation, because I always tell our team is we're not selling a person to a podcast, we're selling a conversation, right? And the content, right? Because that's what you want is to have an engaging conversation for your listeners. So making sure that that that one pager has what are you going to talk about what unique things can you share that maybe hasn't been shared before? Yeah, that's
a good point. And I usually see like a few topics. So how do you guys typically come up with those topics for for the experts? What is your best advice on coming up with those those topics? Because, you know, I know, I've been in business for 10 years. I know, you know, there's experts and executives who've been in business for 20 3040 years, how do you boil that down to two or three topics?
Yeah, it's, that's really hard. And some people are really clear on on what it is that they can speak to and others, we have to really work on pulling them out. So we have we have the onboarding document that walks them through it. But even that can sometimes not lead them down the path enough. So we do a conversation like this, and we just keep digging, like, how do you manage? What are some, you know, what are some key metrics that you use to manage success in your business? So just trying to continue to ask questions to get to that? Those few things. You're like, oh, wow, that's really cool. Yeah, that's interesting. You know, we have over 130, and clients. So we've heard, wow, we've heard a lot of different, you know, kind of ways of managing a business and core expertise. So we can really kind of tune in to things that are unique and different that could be used as those talking points.
What do you think are the best benefits that you've seen for clients that you've, you know, had on being on podcast? Because I think that's the other thing is like, is it valuable for me to be spending that 60 minutes or 30 minutes on podcasts?
Yeah, we see them really valuable piece of educational content. So if you have, especially if you have a complex product or service, being able to explain it on a podcast, where you have somebody that probably depends, depending on what podcast it is, we're, we're likely going to be looking at something that they can speak the language, right? If you're having a conversation with somebody that can speak your language and really dive into the goods of what you have. What we found a lot of our clients is that the people who are interested in their service product, we do a lot with SAS, SAS products. Yeah. You know, when they, they're able to explain that on a podcast, and then somebody who's interested in their SaaS product, when they come to them via phone call email, they have a really good understanding of what they do and how they do it. And it shortens that sales cycle to pretty much a phone call or email because they already everything, all the legwork that you would have done to lead up to kind of lead that that customer to water. It's already done. You just explained it all.
Yeah. So So I mean, basically, you could use it as like content, lead gen, that kind of stuff that you might have on your website or obviously LinkedIn and things like that, right.
Yeah, absolutely. There's tons of ways to repurpose a podcast interview. via I mean, just transcribing it into a blog post, you could send it to a prospective client, if they, you know, this may answer some of the questions that you have also happy to jump on a call.
Yeah, we have a couple podcasts along. This is like, early on, I think it was like, you know, how to pick a PR agency and like some of the basics, and you're like, Well, you're not sure what to pick, we'll just shoot you the podcast. And you could take a quick listen. And, you know, a lot of our podcasts are short. So that was a lot like easy as well. I mean, what do you what is your advice on that? Do you have any thoughts on? You know, when you're choosing podcasts, the length of the podcast, the format of the podcast, you know, everyone has like a such a different format? And does that really matter? Are you looking for quantity when you're going for it?
Yeah, I think I think quality versus quantity is always good. I think in the beginning, especially if you haven't done a podcast before warming up with three that might be kind of, I don't want to say lesser known podcast, but maybe a little bit easier. Right. And and then kind of working your way up. Is this a strategy that we typically use, depending on where people are? But yeah, I mean, I really, I think that the interview style is really important. Yeah. I don't know if you've been on other podcasts. But yeah, of course, of course. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it varies greatly.
Oh, yeah. And you can tell like, also, I've noticed, like, you could tell when you're interviewing somebody else who, who's also been podcasting, because they know how to keep the conversation going. And the conversations a little bit more dynamic. They know that little sound bites are, you know, very important. So do you guys, you know, when you prepare your guests, or your executives, do you provide them sound bites and messages that they should be covering? You know, while they're going through the process?
Yeah, we do. We do media training with our clients and really try to dive in deep to what's your hook? What are your stories? How are you going to weave? What's kind of that common thread that we're going to leave weave throughout the whole conversation? And also how people consume podcasts? Right? We all have very short attention spans. So you know, somebody could tune in for five minutes. Somebody could tune in for 30 minutes. Yeah, just making sure that you're kind of meeting people throughout the whole interview, right, maybe coming in midpoint coming back to that that big, big, like, hook and pull in that you gave in the beginning of the conversation? And bringing it back again, but just in a different unique way.
Yeah, I mean, I've even noticed, like, I think that's important to understand to like, put yourself in the position of the listener, right. So I listened to really long podcasts, if I'm running. If I'm driving in the car going somewhere, I'll listen to something that's like, you know, based on my map, how long I'm going to be in the car. So I think that's really important, too. People listen to it while they're walking outside, exercising, doing a number of things. So I feel like that's another interesting way to kind of prepare for a podcast is to be, you know, putting yourself in the position of the listener, right?
Mm hmm. Yeah. You think about it, the type of medium that podcasts are, you are usually multitasking? Yeah, yes, absolutely. Typically, right. I mean, when you're reading a news article, you're not multitasking you're reading, you'd be super talented. I would love to meet a person that could be reading a news article and doing something else but and so by nature, you know, people are, are using it as a way to distract you from a monotonous task. Right. Right. muting, running, doing the dishes doing laundry, so you need to think about that.
Yeah, no, absolutely. I love it. I think that's such a great model actually, and such a really specific niche. I think it's important because we've also, you know, throughout the pandemic, we've talked a lot about thought leadership and expertise and how that's kind of like a flagship to a lot of PR content that is being created. Now we do full PR programs. But I think in this part that you'd get you guys address in this expert thought leadership part. You mentioned some other pieces of content that you can make, can you kind of dive dive a little bit deeper in the different types of content that typically comes out from when you have someone doing an interview on a podcast?
Yeah, so we actually do some content repurposing. We have a product called the Content Studio. And so we're what we're doing is we're taking the audio interview, and then we're gonna make eight to 10 social media posts. Oh, wow. Because you just did like a 3060 minute interview. Yeah, there believe that there's some fantastic quotes in there. Yeah. Though those quotes out creating audio grams, which are the pictures with with audio, I'm sure that many people know what that is, but some don't. Yeah. And then we do a short blog and a long blog for folks as well. So that's kind of what we typically do with our with our content studio. And, you know, I just, we've had clients that have turned them into white papers.
Yeah, that's smart. Mm hmm. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I guess it depends on the nature of the actual podcast, if it is more technical versus more entertainment verse. Yeah, I mean, we do have we have we have some, like you said, if you're dealing with a SAS client, and they're b2b, then that could easily be translated to a white paper.
Yeah, absolutely. And you think about some of the very tech focused pod like aI podcasts? Yes. Typically, the hosts are so knowledgeable and ask smart questions. And like, what a great way to turn that into a full eBook, or, you know, a bigger content piece. Yeah, that's,
that's so great. I think being able to multipurpose content like that is really important. So what would you think, you know, what would you say are some kind of if you're, if you're new to podcasting, you really want to get involved? I'm going to ask you a couple of different things. One, what is like the best way to identify some low hanging fruit? Or like, you know, podcasts that might say, yes.
Yeah, I typically would recommend people check out iTunes, or find podcasts that you listen to, whether that's in your field of work, or maybe entertainment, just depending on on what it is that you're wanting to be wanting to, to be a guest on, and then look at. So you click on the actual podcasts that you enjoy. And then look at the like podcasts. So when you scroll down, and you're looking at, yeah, there's similar podcasts, and then really start to kind of look at those and you could dig in maybe three layers down, starting there, knowing that hey, someday, maybe I want to be on this podcast. But understanding that I need to work my way up to that, right, going to the similar podcasts and digging through and seeing, first of all, a podcast that has guests on all the time, there, they will most likely be looking for guests and then looking at the pedigree of of guests that they have and and kind of seeing it that matches you. And that's a I think that's the best place to start.
Yeah, no, that's a good, that's very good tip. Okay, so then now I've got a list of podcasts. You you walk me through this list, I'm ready to go. I want to pitch myself. What is like the best way to pitch myself present myself. And you kind of covered this a little bit, but just a little bit more direct. How should I pitch myself? Let's say I have podcast a and I really want to put myself on podcast a.
Yeah, I think there's a couple different ways, especially if you're new to pitching podcasts, one of the things that I always say is is nice is to ask. Yay. Are you looking for guests?
Wow, what a concept.
Concept. Right? And if so, what kind of guests are you looking for? Yeah. And just open up the conversation. And they'll typically tell you, if you're if you ask and then you know, if it's something that you can fit into the conversation, then that's perfect. That's a that's an open door to then follow up with. Great. No, I would love to come on your show. Yeah, and talk about three things name three things that would be interesting to that specific podcast and their audience and make it about their audience.
Yeah, yes. Yeah. We've had these conversations my team we've been talking about influencers a lot. And obviously for you know, social media purposes and, and a lot of people have become disheartened with Instagram influencers and other kinds of influencers. Because when you're looking at them, you're actually reaching their audience, you're, you're meeting their purpose, and you don't always get to digest and give them your purpose and your message. So it is it's, you're catering to somebody else's audience. The best synergy is when both of your audiences are the same ideal. Yes, yes. So I think that's also important to realize is like, is that podcast audience? Also your audience? Are you speaking the right language to them? So I think those key talking points are really important. Okay, so now you kind of uncovered I found my podcast a, these are my talking points. Now. I am I've got a booked I'm booked on the podcast, I'm excited to go. Some things that I may not know that I should get ready for, what should How should they prepare?
Well, I would, I would recommend listening to the podcasts in advance. So you'd be surprised. I know that that's, like, people find that so funny. But I also like, you'd be surprised how many people do not listen to the podcast before they? I'm sure you've experienced that a few times. salutely? Absolutely.
They get so excited about being in the podcast that they forget about actually listening. Yes.
Yeah. And and just, you know, Spot check a few episodes, because there usually is a question that might throw you off guard. It could be, you know, who's the most influential person that you've ever met? What's your favorite book? Did you still want to be caught off guard? And you want to have a thoughtful answer? So making sure that you listen to the previous episodes is is valuable? Also having your hook, what is your hook? Where are you going? How are you going to come out of the gate? I think most podcasts start with Hey, so so glad to have you on the show. Tell me a little bit about yourself, we'll come out of the gate very strong. Instead of talking about your product or service, maybe talk about the problem that you're solving with your product and service. Like, hey, we saw that this was a people were wanting to be on more podcasts, but they weren't really sure how to how to do that. So we started this company just and that way you're able to kind of talk to people in a way that they're able to understand. Yeah, yeah, man. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think we're, we kind of just dive into what we know and what we do and forget that we have to bring people up to that point. Yeah, revise their last from the beginning.
Absolutely. Have you? Um, that's these are great tips. Do you have any others that we need to add to this little cue? So yeah, the first thing you ate sorry, the first thing you said was first listen to some previous podcasts. Know what your hook is that you're what you're going to be focused on and coming out of the gate with? And what was the next one?
Yeah, I would also say some stories, some really powerful stories, some anecdotes. You have them talk about maybe a client that use your service or product, you know, they were struggling with this. And after they after we work with them. They experienced this. Also startling stats. Everyone loves statistics. You can
you have any startling for us? Even who you didn't mention the 2.6 million podcasts? Yes. Which is startling. That is very startling very early. Yeah.
It's interesting. I don't I'm trying to think if I have other ones for you. You know what, next time? Yeah, I'm gonna come back on. Okay. Like 10.
Perfect. So I do have a question about an anecdote. So have you ever just had a podcast go just wrong, just so wrong? And what do you do when that happens?
I you know, we actually haven't off shockingly, I don't know how I've been waiting. We certainly have had podcasts that that maybe didn't go quite as planned. And for us, like we deliver 10 podcast interviews in three months. That's what we do. And part of what we guarantee is that you're going to have a good time. Yeah, with satisfaction guarantee is that we want you to feel good about it. And if you don't feel good about it, you need to tell us and we're going to make it right. And if that means that we add another one to your campaign, that's what we do. So we've had a few of those. And mostly just like, I didn't jive with the host, or I, you know, I felt like their questions just were not thoughtful. They weren't prepared. Things like that. But we haven't anything go terribly wrong.
Yeah, I I've only had a couple of podcasts where I like, I cannot publish this there. Again, just so bad. I mean, other than audio problems, which I've had when when interviewing people outside of the country, media outlets that I mean, that's another huge thing, right? Sound quality. So I've had a couple of problems there where we had to scrap it or re record. But there's only been, I mean, I think we're at episode like 80 or something now. And there's only been like two or three where I'm like, wow, we just really can't publish this podcast. It's just so bad. Conversations so bad. And I don't think I agree. I don't think it's anyone's fault. At that point. You have to have a little bit of humor and humility in doing this kind of interview process. Because it's, you know, you might not get along with the guest or or you might not get along with the host or maybe you're just having a bad day. I don't know.
Yeah. But that's there are Yeah. And I and I think we certainly have had that, you know, I, we've had just episodes that haven't been published for whatever reason. And it usually I mean, it's shocking. It's, they both know, the host and the guests know, they're one of those things. It's like, yeah, that was terrible. Let's just, we are not even going to ask any questions. We both know what happened there. And we haven't had to have any really bad conversations. It's interesting, because we usually it's our client that's like, Hey, I just like I didn't go very well. And yeah, I don't think it's gonna publish. It's like, Thank you for thank you for letting us know. We'll,
when we follow up, we'll see what they say. Yeah, yeah. So
yeah, it's, it's, it's interesting, because it is it is, as you know, even just working with your clients, it's, it's a 60 minute conversation can go terribly.
It's a bit nerve wracking, especially if you haven't really done good research. I mean, that's, I think that's the value in something like Kitt caster, where you guys, you can identify what the right targets are, you do not want to go off to the wrong podcast that will ask you the wrong questions, or puts you in a situation that, you know, you just are going to be uncomfortable. And I knew, you know, that saying people say that all press is good press. I mean, only PR people would not agree with that.
Truly, I know, right? And there are some podcast hosts that will really tear into you. And that's just what they do. And we've we've worked with some but we are always upfront with their client, like, hey, it's gonna be a really challenging interview. And they're typically excited for it. But yeah, it's it's, it's interesting, but yeah, no, all media is not is not good, not good.
Well, that actually brings me to probably one of my last questions for you is, have you noticed, and I sometimes do this, and I sometimes don't. So I just, I'd love to get your perspective, since you work with so many podcasts. And for people to have some kind of understanding of what they might be getting into and doing it? Do you always get questions in advance? And you know, when people are preparing, can they ask those questions like, can I get questions in advance? Or, you know, do they kind of have to just wing it?
It's all over the map? Yeah, sometimes there are questions in advance, and the podcast hosts will follow those questions throughout the entire interview. And sometimes you just get a kind of a vague direction of where they want to take the interview some of the things that they think are interesting to discuss. And sometimes you get nothing. Yeah. And so all of the above, and I personally, I don't know how you feel, but I love this. Like I love just having a conversation. And not necessarily preparing with too many
dancers. Yeah, yeah. Nice. But uh, you know, I think that's also like an interview style, right? Like, you have to be able to be comfortable with kind of picking up on what's being said, and asking questions off the cuff. I know, actually host another podcast. And I always, they're pretty high profile people that we interview in the cannabis industry. And so we have to, we pretty much have to send them questions in advance. But I tell them straight up at the very beginning. I'm like, Look, we have these questions. But I never asked all the questions. Because my mind just goes in another direction and the conversation goes in another direction. So you want it to be a fun conversation and people to learn from it. And that's, you know, for this podcast, especially we we like people to have tips and tricks to walk away with so yeah, I do like the conversational style. So given that we like to have tips and tricks, anything any like, you know, major tips and tricks that you think people should follow when they're diving into podcasting for the first time. Yeah, well,
you brought up a really good point is your equipment, and you don't have to spend a lot. But I highly recommend a mic outside of your computer device, and a set of headphones. And it's kind of a I guess somewhat of a sound proofing room of sorts, or at least you know, minimize the echoing and distractions and noises. But that is that's huge because the sound quality people are are either going to tune in or tune out based on that. Also knowing that the podcasts are evergreen, this is content that's going to live there forever and knowing that when you're on an interview when you're talking in time, make sure that You have a point of reference,
right? Yeah, that's really great. That's such a good. That's such a good point. Yeah. I don't you know, sometimes we talk about time, sometimes you don't I guess it depends on the topic too, right?
Yeah, absolutely. And it's okay. Like, you can say, hey, in two weeks, we're gonna we're launching this new product line. Yeah. But like, then say, you know, I know some of you are going to be tuned in at a later date. So this is
what's funny, because when the pandemic first started, that was that it was it was, should I mentioned that we're in a pandemic? Should I not mention, we're in a pandemic, and it's gone on now? It's gone long enough, where? You can't not say it. But yeah, it's just so interesting to understand the value of time and space, you know, when you're talking to someone.
Absolutely. Yeah. And and podcasts are, you know how it goes, if you find a podcast, and you just dive into it, you can binge the whole season or 20 episodes, and they could have been published five years ago. So it's, you know, I think that they're, they're timeless and making sure that you address that when you're being interviewed. Yeah, I think that last tip is a good call to action.
What is your call to action? Branding?
My call to action is connect with me directly? Yes. Give me an email address. I just I'm always open to conversation. I'm always open to just answer any question that you have.
Perfect. Oh, actually, that's what I was gonna ask you is gonna say so how can people find you specifically? And how, what is the best way to contact you?
Yeah, so you just reach out to me via email. My email is Brandy b, r and d y at kit caster, KTC. A S T. R. and would love to just chat with anyone if you have any questions about podcasts? How to be the best guests on the podcast, anything. I'm happy to jump on a call.
Awesome. And one last question. Do you have a favorite podcast that you listen to that people should check?
I don't even get to listen to podcasts for enjoyment anymore. I mean, it's enjoyment. of enjoyment. Absolutely. Yeah. I listened to I listened to the daily. Okay. Oh, most days? Yeah.
Guilty pleasure. Like you just kind of get get up to speed on what's going on?
Yeah, I think it's necessary. Yeah. Keep me in the know of what's happening. I don't I don't watch. I don't really consume news. Yeah. I read a tiny bit, but I tune into the daily stays. Yeah. How about what's your favorite
on your recommendation online. I've been trying to be more exploratory and I training for a marathon. So I've got a lot of time on my like, with my ears. And I love the 10% happier podcast. So I listened to that a lot, especially because of craziness madness that we're all living in. And then I I really like I mean, I've been listening to a lot of stuff with special guests. So I actually look at podcast based on the guests sometimes don't look up the guest and then just see the show. So that's something that people considers to like, you know, maybe the people are not looking up that particular show, but they might be looking you up as a guest. And so I think it was both ways, right? Like, it's reverse PR for both the podcast and the podcast guests.
Absolutely. Yeah. And if there's someone that you aspire to be or you feel like, I want to be like, Simon Sinek Yeah, I feel like I'm on the same path. Look at all the podcasts. He's been on. Look at the journey. I've done that for a few clients where we've kind of started you're like, wow, they started off here. And they built themselves up. Yeah. You know, being interviewed by Brene. Brown. Yeah, it's hurting from like a little industry podcast. So that's also a really great way to kind of figure out what your what your podcasting journey is gonna look like. Yeah,
no, that's, that's a great point. We do that a lot of it's like competitive coverage, right? You're looking at your competitors to kind of see or people on people that are not competing, okay, maybe maybe your like minded people that are doing the same thing or something similar, or people you look up to, I think that's a great way to find a good podcast to be featured on so that's Thank you. That's Those are great tips. We'll put all of your contact information, of course, into the show notes. So everybody look at that. And then of course, we'll put your website in there as well. Thank you so much for your time today. This is quick and wonderful and easy to digest. So I hopefully people got some good tips.
Yeah, absolutely. And we also work with PR agencies. So if you don't want to dive into the world of podcast, which is
it is it's like a whole different planet. It's like social media, right? It's like
It is it totally is. So we're happy to jump in and just be the podcast arm. Awesome operating silently in the back.
That's fantastic. Good to know. All right, thank you so much brandy, and we'll talk to you next time.
