#93 Trevor Chisman. Massage Rebel and Webiste Design. The Radical Massage Therapist
4:39PM May 15, 2024
Speakers:
Krista Dicks
Trevor Chisman
Keywords:
website
massage
massage therapist
absolutely
clinic
therapist
people
clients
tattoo
business
ultimately
personal brand
love
years
design
trevor
speak
instagram
days
message
Hello radical massage therapists and welcome to another episode of the radical massage therapist podcast where I am your host Krista. I am a massage therapist of 18 years and I'm the host of this podcast. It is called the radical massage therapist but I am not the radical massage therapist, but you are the listeners and my guests, especially today Trevor Cheeseman. He is also known as the massage Rebel on the Instagram space and in his massage practice. Trevor is a massage therapist, clinic owner and website designer based in Glasgow, Scotland and a massage therapist for over 30 years and has been running his multi therapist clinic in Glasgow for 13 years. Lastly, he builds websites and offers marketing advice for massage therapists and other health and wellness professionals. I hope you enjoy this episode with Trevor.
Trevor, welcome to the radical massage therapist podcast. It is a pleasure to have you here.
Thank you for inviting me, Krista is it's good to be here.
Thank you for joining me from Scotland, where he is you're adopted home. Because you're from England. But let me the time difference there. It's not too bad. I'm catching you like what? early evening?
Yeah, it was seven o'clock at the moment. Seven o'clock in the evening. Be in Scotland, the sun still shining at the moment?
Yes. Lovely. Can you tell me a little bit about what your your day looks like? Trevor, you are a massage therapist. And we're going to talk a little bit about web design, which is one of your, your dual lives. Yes.
So I really split my weaker pretty much into blocks. So Monday and Tuesday are specifically website work. Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, client work with my massage clients. And I like to block it like that a little bit later focus on one thing or the other, although I do end up doing web stuff on the other days as well.
Right? And that was gonna be one of my like, questions was how you divide, like how you divided the two worlds? And that's an excellent answer that you block out that time. And being having those two focus days for web design just kind of means that you can be more more present. When you have your massage days. How many hours do you massage each day?
So when I do long days and massage, so I do three days. So I work Wednesday, Thursday, Friday with my massage twice, but I'm in you know, and I also run the clinic, I own the clinic and I run the clinic. So as you're probably know yourself having a clinic of your own, you know, you sometimes you turn up very early and you leave very late. So, yeah, my clinic days tend to be anywhere between eight o'clock in the morning till eight o'clock in the evening. Although I, I would say over the three days, I would say about 20 clients. Okay,
I mean, that's that's significant for only only three days, I'd say on. Yeah, that's great. And then your How long have you owned the practice or been running the practice? I've
owned the clinic for 13 years. I kind of refer to it as my accidental clinic because I never really wanted to have a massage clinic. If you'd have asked me 14 years ago, if I ever wanted to clinic, I would say absolutely not. But it kind of wasn't forced on me. But it was kind of was in the sense that where I rented a room, the landlady was retiring. And it was basically, you know, I became the landlord, or I got a new a new landlord. So it seemed like the better option to become the landlord. Or at least at least have decision making in my court.
Yeah, absolutely. What were some of the reasons why you did not want to, to own the clinic?
Well, I've never I've never gravitated towards managing people. It's something I've never wanted to do. I'm very self sufficient for myself. And and I, you know, a very much a kind of, it's one of the reasons why I like massage works. One of the reasons why I like web work because I like working on my own. I like my own company. So working with one client at a time in the massage world and working with a screen and the digital world suits me a lot but managing people managing other therapists is not necessary, you know, in the sense of the clinic is not necessarily my forte. But that was it was a choice worth making. And I've been doing it for 13 years. So it kind of worked out I suppose.
Yeah, absolutely. What have you learned so far about managing people? But it's just as hard as I thought It was
it's yeah, it's just, I think you're either drawn to it, and you're either excel at it, you know, managing people and being a team leader, or you don't, and I don't I like helping people. But I don't necessarily like to be a team leader in that regard. And it's probably evidenced in the way that I run my clinic as well. All the therapists are self employed. They're essentially rent rooms from me. So rather than me being that boss, yeah,
you've made it into a style that that works for you. And, and obviously, it's going to attract that type of individual as well, that you're not necessarily managing them because it's, it's their independent business. And yeah, it's just, it's the space the container that you're holding for them. Yeah.
Yeah, no, absolutely. You know, you know, I'm always there to give them advice, and, you know, help them wherever they want. But ultimately, they have to ask for it as well. You know, I'm not there to make decisions for them. I'm not there to tell them what to do, or how to run their business. But I'm always there to support them, if they need it and want it.
Yeah, I think that's one of the best ways to, to manage it's it's similar to what we have in our in our practice, that everybody is independent. They're not renting rooms from us, but we're all independently contracted. It really is, like, if you want to do well, I'm here to support you. But I do need to know what you need from me, because I'm not here to tell you how to how to do your your practice, right. Like, you're right. It's just the reputation of the clinic that that brings in the client, they take care of the client and then go from there. Yeah,
no, absolutely. And I think, you know, been most therapists, I think, at some point or other in their career ended up being self employed, or, you know, subcontractors for a period of time. And that means, you know, you need to make decisions about your own business, you need to make decisions about how you want to run your business and what you should charge, your own policies, all of those things. And if you've got someone else doing that for you, then it just stifles I think your own growth.
Yeah, I agree. Absolutely. Yeah, definitely. And so you've been massage therapist for 30 years, you just shared
31 years this year, actually. Yes. 1993 1990.
So in on in Ontario, or I am in Canada, and that was the year that we officially became like a registration like, in in Canada, it was recognised in Ontario. What did it look like? What did a massage career look like? Back in 1993? For you over over there?
Oh, my goodness. So in 1993, I was having, you know, I was in my early 20s. And to say I you know that there were not very many other male, early 20s, masseuse therapists on my course, or a you know, even in the industry at that point. It was a completely different industry, I've seen huge changes from it being more of a kind of hobby pastime for semi retired people, or people who had some spare time on their hands to actually be in a fully fledged career option where you can, you know, you can move straight into massage from, you know, high school if you wanted to. And, you know, and it could be a lifetime career. At that point. 30 years ago, I don't think anyone was thinking of it like that really? Right. So, definitely send a huge changes in, as I say, in the industry itself and in customers and what customers want, and how customers perceive massage therapy and what they use it for.
Yeah, you know, yeah. What did what like what type of environment Did you work in at first?
So I was really lucky. And I think this is actually one of the reasons why I'm still a massage therapist 30 years on is that the first five to 567 years of my career was slow, you know, I, I worked multiple jobs and was in London at the time. Massage was just one of the jobs that I did. So I wasn't diving straight in from qualifying into working with six clients a day, three or four days a week and hitting any burnout. I was you know, for the first six years my body in cycling was a marathon training. You know, my body was slowly getting used to it as my clientele slowly grew, and as I devoted more time towards the massage side of my work. So actually I think that was really helpful.
And how did you not get frustrated or want to change direction? Because if it was a slow progression for you certainly, in my experience, some massage therapists would be like, well, this isn't, this isn't for me, I'll just focus on something else or go back to school.
No, I definitely had periods through that 567 years, I had periods where I was really invested and becoming a massage therapist and growing, you know, big business and being really successful. And there were times when I back burnered It, you know, and did very little of it and focused on other stuff. And to be honest with you is when my massage career took off is actually when I started focusing on the website stuff, okay, to be honest with you, I was web I, that's how I grew my massage business was through websites. You know, it was gonna say about 2324 years ago, I suddenly realised that I could speak directly to people online, I could, you know, I could write stuff and have a website, and they could read it. And I was like, wow, okay, I need to do this, I need to learn how to do this. And I need to do this, because I don't have any money to pay anyone to do it. So I need to learn. And that's what I did. I basically sat down and I self taught with self taught how to build websites. And I was, you know, I would say, in my area, I was one of the first therapists to even have a website, right?
Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, as you said, that was, you found a way to directly communicate what massage therapy was, who you were, what you could offer online, and you were one of one of the first and surprisingly, like, I mean, you kind of must have fell in love with them with web design, even though you started it off as just a skill you wanted to learn to create for your massage business. But then the like, that also created more business for your massage business. And then you just fell in love with design? That's awesome.
Yeah, no, I actually saw there was there was several things that happen one, I suddenly realised, I like computer code. I think that's a kind of, I have two sides of my brain, I have a very logical, like evidence based masseuse, therapists, computer code side of my brain. And I have another part of me, which is very whimsical, and very ego kind of Chinese philosophy kind of side of my brain. And they very rarely mix. But I need to feed both sides. And definitely the computer code learning computer code, fed that side. And I actually really enjoy reading the language and kind of understanding what it does. So it was kind of felt quite natural.
Yeah. And I mean, I agree when you realise that you could communicate the way that you wanted an ad with with your web design, and it's still evident and how you communicate even on your Instagram, you're communicate very clearly, who you are for and who you're not. And it's just the way that you you come across it. And did that. Was that natural from the beginning? Or did you did you develop those skills along the way?
I know, it definitely wasn't natural to start with, it's something that I have kind of focused on because it you know, having a website, one of the things that I learned really early on with websites, because I you know, I built a whole bunch of websites for all sorts of people. You know, a friend of mine had a T Shirt Company, someone, you know, an interior designer in New York, just a whole bunch of people. But at the time, back then, I was writing the content for them as well. And what I realised was, my websites were way more successful than the websites that I built for other people. And it wasn't that the websites were better or worse, it was that that was my voice. I was, it was part of me, it was a reflection of me within my website. And in their website. It wasn't a reflection of them, it was a reflection of me again. So, so that's why I don't like content anymore for anyone else. I think it's really important. No matter how bad you think you are writing text, you can definitely get help. You can definitely have pointers and have someone guide you but it has to be your voice. It has to be as I say the website has to be part you know, an extension of your business. So it's an extension of your personality and a reflection of you know, what people are going to receive when they come to you. You know it there should be a deja vu moment when when someone reads the website, and then they can't turn up for their appointment. They should be like, Oh, I kind of recognising you. No, have we met before because it's the website was so new.
And that is so important in what we do that in order through a client can show up and have that trust in you and be in a place where they're going to be vulnerable, then they can, they can kind of know what they're getting into ahead of time. So if we could jump maybe right into some of the, you don't write the content anymore, which was going to be one of like, My questions is like, Okay, well, how would you then start if your business is to create websites? But then how do you how did you find this voice for for the those coming to you for business, but that, obviously has been answered that you don't write the content for them, you want them to use their own voice, which is really helpful. And then you just get to focus on the design piece. And let them that work, Shine shine through as well. So when somebody is creating a website for massage therapy, if we be specific, or even just when you are creating for other other people, there must be some elements as a priority, sort of, like come up, in theory that, what would be some of the top things that you would want to see on a website for somebody to come across. So somebody would know them before they know them?
Okay, so I think it's really important to use your natural voice. And, you know, I've spoken about this on my, my Instagram page, I speak about this with, you know, I obviously, I guide, my clients, my website, clients, you know, I guide them, I give them cues, I give them ideas. And I try and, you know, direct them, but it has to be their words. And it's important that you know, that natural language. So there are specific words that I use regularly, you know, just in the way that I talk, I have my own personal way of talking my own words, my own inflection, all those kinds of things. And so when I, when I recommend, what I recommend that people when they're writing their content is that actually, they write it, and then they read it out loud. And if, if you're stumbling over it, it's not your natural voice, it should pour out of your mouth so easily. So simply, you shouldn't stumble over words, you shouldn't have these filler words that you kind of trip over, that you wouldn't normally use when you're speaking. Because when you know, you want someone to read those words, and hear your voice in their head, you know, because of just the flow of the language. And that's what I was saying about that deja vu. So when they, you greet them at the door, and you speak the same way you wrote this, it just gels, it's kind of like that continuity, continuity of language continuity of, you know, how you presented yourself, whether it be digitally or in person.
I love that. And I think where you're probably seeing some of some of professionals struggle is that they almost feel like they have to be professional. And they were were in a health care profession. But were your few men at the end of the day. And if you know, the website doesn't, it's coming off like some and I'm sure you have examples that it's all like robotic language and just, you know, they just long sentences that again, as you said, we can't speak naturally to what we do. We're just copying pasting from our, you know, our Board website. I'm sure you see examples of that in your field. Oh,
absolutely. I mean, people that there are lots of weird and wonderful things that people do on their websites. So one of my favourite pet hates is the use solo therapist using we and us. We offer this and we offer that and it's like no, there's no way you hear this is you you are talking to a potential client. And actually, in this day and age people want to deal with personal brands. They don't want to big deal with the big like big business Gone are the days when we pretended to be a bigger business than we actually are. Now people want really personal care. They want a really personal attachment to the business that they're going to spend money with. We need to do away with the Wii and the US unless you are a group practice. If you're a solo therapist, is I is me so that's that's definitely one of my my big pet hates. But there are so many more things like that, that we do we you know, we, we we write through Like when we're reading a newspaper, so we have these big blocks of text. And which, you know, normally when we're putting, you know, writing the content for our website, we're doing it on a laptop screen or a desktop screen. And it looks like there's lots of space, but transpose that onto a mobile device, where most people are actually going to read it and visit your website from, it just looks like a really daunting, overwhelming block of words. Yeah. So we have to break things up, you know, we have to break these big paragraphs up into smaller sentences, lots more breathing space within the content, so that it doesn't appear overwhelming on a small screen. And then it's inviting to step through, you got to remember with a website, you're leading someone, you're leading the visitor from, where they entered the website, to the goal, what you want them to do what you want them to achieve, whether that be to contact you to book an appointment, so you have to lead them through and you do that with your language, you do that with how you design the site, but also how you place the words and where you place your call to action buttons, and all of those kinds of things. You're you're creating a pathway through all the pages from the entry to the exit,
right? So they're, they're searching for you because they have a specific question or a problem, and then helping them navigate through that issue to the ultimate result of having them that invoke with you, there's a there's a process there as well. And, and there's an obvious, it's obvious that a lot of people when they're in that initial phase of looking for it for you, they don't really care about a lot, other than sort of those key things that you just outlined. So putting all of that text about how you're so passionate about helping people find their true, you know, wellness and the, you know, all of this, they don't care. Just Just tell me you can you can help?
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, these are the these are the problems that I help people with. This is where I focus my work, this is what I'm good at. This is what I like working with, these are the problems that I like, solving for people, you know, and ultimately, you know, as we were saying, there, it's about getting people to the goal, but it's also sometimes the goal is to get them to leave.
I like that,
you know, ultimately, you, you don't want everyone to book an appointment, you you know, your website is also a filter, it is a way for you to filter out those people that are not a good fit for you that day that you don't do the type of work that's going to help them so you want them to go, Oh, this isn't going to work for me and just go away. Yeah, that's great. If you can get them to go away on your website. That is brilliant. Because if they don't go away on your website, then they've booked an appointment, then you've got that uncomfortable appointment where they've shown up and they're like, Oh, can you do this really deep tissue, I've got this knot in my back needs some really deep work and you're like, Well, I don't do really work. You know, so but then you try and help them and you end up, as I say in this uncomfortable therapeutic relationship with trying to provide a service that you don't really provide. And the clients a little bit on, you know, dissatisfied with the service they receive because it wasn't what they were looking for. No one's happy. So much better. steer them away in the website. Don't let them get to the appointment.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I love that. Yeah. How can you make people go? Go away? Well, how can how can you like show people? Yeah, that they're not, they're not. You're not for them as well, as much as you can show them that you are, you are for them. And that's again, coming back to that authentic voice and probably, I missed, of course, I think in this profession, a great photo would be a great example. I mean, you you have tattoos, your male, you know, I feel like Trevor is a masculine name, but that can't always be the case. You know, in Canada, we have like, Gabriel's and alexan, Alex's and all that. So, you know, it could it's always good to have that that image and if somebody is not for you, that's just that's just as important. I love that. Yeah, absolutely.
And you know, you mentioned my tattoos. That is one of the reasons why. The first picture you will see on my website is my tattoos. Because it's you know, as is not a decision maker for a lot of people but for some people it is it's something I want my clients to know. So it's front and centre
and Love that. Probably on the same level, are people judging people judging you for your website? If you do I know it only takes like a certain amount of seconds I've heard for someone to know whether or not is there a technical design that could also limit like the amount of time that people are going to spend? Or? Again, I'll just go back to are people judging you for your your website?
Yes, ultimately, I think they are. Yeah, you know, I think, you know, one, one of the one of the things that comes up time and time again, in a lot of Facebook groups, is, Do I need a website? Can I just have a Facebook page? Right? Yes, it's a valid question. If you want to grow your business, you want to be a professional therapist, you need a website, it's as simple as that. You can probably run a small business via your Facebook page, but you're never going to look professional. And the same goes for just having any old website, people will judge it, people will come along, and they will get just like your workspace, just like your treatment room, if your treatment room is shabby, a bit messy cables laying all over the place, you know, dirty curtains, they're going to notice that and it's going to make them feel uncomfortable, and it's going to probably make them feel like they wish they were somewhere else. thing within the website, if they come to your website, and it's difficult to use, if it doesn't speak to them, if it's seems a bit all over the place, they're probably just going to go away, you know, at that point, they haven't invested in coming to see you. So they're probably just going to click the back button. So definitely they they will judge your website very, very quickly. The people, you know, there is that whole thing online? You know, what, what is it got down to I think I saw someone recently say that people make a decision about your website and your business within like 60 tenths of a second or something crazy like that? I think you know, we do. I think that idea comes from some research, that we're suggesting that people make decisions about whether we like or don't like other people, very quickly, as soon as we see them. We do make decisions about websites very, very quickly. But I think we give them a little bit longer than we know, facial recognition, when we're speaking to a stranger when we first meet someone new. But very quickly, if it's difficult to use, if it's hard to use, if it doesn't speak to you, people are gonna go away.
You learned how to do web design or on your own and you obviously love it, it feeds that one side of your geeky brain. But and this, this might be you, as you said, because you didn't have the money. And if somebody doesn't necessarily have the money, they might venture out to try to learn on their own. However, I love one of the things that you've brought to your social media is that choosing you to work on your web website, as an act of self care. And there is nothing more that a massage therapist could learn how to do than to practice good self care. Can you explain more about that?
Yeah, I mean, that was kind of what my idea was, is that, you know, ultimately, as business owners, you know, we've got, we've got to, we got to wear a lot of hats, you know, we've got to be the Messiah, we've got to be the service delivery person, we've got to be the person trying to empty the bins and you know, Door Door, that kind of management and deal with the bookings, and the admin and the paperwork and the accounting. And ultimately, dealing with your own website, is another job. So sometimes handing out these jobs to people that that's what they specialise in, is definitely a huge advantage for one's own physical and mental well being. Now, ultimately, a half the time I think I can probably do something on a website in 10 minutes that would take someone who doesn't really find websites, intuitive struggles with it an hour and a half. Yeah. So why would you spend an hour and a half trying to do something that could be done very, very quick. The same with your accountant, you know, we use accountants because that's what they do. They're great at it. We're not. So, you know, although we want to be on top of it, and we want to understand what they're doing. We don't just want to push it all onto their plate. We need to understand every aspect of our business, and they definitely think every therapist should understand what their website is doing, how it's working, how they can improve it, but sometimes the core mechanics, get someone else to do it. Pay someone who is who does what they do. If that's what they're good at, because they will do it much quicker, much faster, and probably a little bit better. Yeah.
And I would imagine that your return on investment is, you know, it's something that you can you can is tangible. And and you can, you know, yes, it is a bit of an investment to have somebody designed your website, though, I would argue, like, I think I paid. And, you know, I'm not sure what your rates are. But, you know, I paid $1,000 For my first website, like 18 years ago, like when I first started, and that was a big project. You know, and it's not, it's not that complicated anymore, thankfully, but relying on a professional is still an investment. And I completely agree that, that it's worth taking it off of your plate to hand it over to someone who is more more capable and enjoys it, as well.
Yeah, you know, and websites have definitely changed over the years, you know, I mean, we webs I don't write code anymore as you wouldn't be like invent, you know, reinventing the wheel. There's no point, you know, when you have platforms like WordPress, or Squarespace, you really, there's so much that you don't need to do that you don't need to get involved with I mean, I the only thing that I the only code that I write anymore is basically CSS code, which is all about making things look pretty, you know, the hardcore coding, thankfully, I don't have to do anymore, as I say, and neither, you know, if someone decides that they want to take on tackling their own website, which if you know, if you've got the time, you've got the the energy, you really want to do that. I think that's that's a great thing to do. That, you know, platforms make it so easy. Now, Squarespace is a great platform. If you can't do everything on it, it's a little bit restrictive. A little bit more restrictive than WordPress, for example. But you can do a lot. And you can make a totally professional website that will look amazing. And do you know do the job very, very easily? I think the problem that most people have when they're doing their own website, is that and I think this is not necessarily the therapists problem, or whoever's designing the website is actually the companies who like Squarespace. If you look at a Squarespace advert, and then you click on a trial, and whatever, it jumps you straight into designing your web page, right? That's out of four steps of designing a website. That's Step three, you just jumped over step one and step two. And then it's going to be much harder to do the website, because you've missed step one and step two. So my advice is, if you are going to do your own website, you know, do you something like works? Do you use something like Squarespace. They're great. But do your planning. First, do your research, figure out what you want to say? How you want to say it, what, ultimately what you want your visitors to know about you to think about you to feel all of those, you're gonna answer those before you even start to decide what colour you're going to use for your website to decide which paper you're going to have. which font you like, what section is going to be first and what section is going to be second? You all these decisions need to be made. First, you need to what pages do you need? What do you want? You know, how many pages do you need? Do you need a page for every service? Do you want to promote every service, maybe you have services you don't actually want to promote? Maybe they don't need a page, all of this kind of stuff. And you want to be collecting what I call your assets, your website assets, which is your any videos, any photographs, any you know, portraits, any work photographs, all of your text, your story, your backstory, how you're going to connect to people, all of that, before you even start to design the page. Right? You design a bit more go so much smoother.
Yeah. And that makes sense as well. You're, you know, you just signed up and you're now you're paying for the service. But now for like two months, you're just you know, like, it's going to be that much harder to create, as you said, it's gonna take that much longer to fake because then you're like, Okay, well now I need this and then you pause on the creation of the website to go and do the images or to plan it out. So that's really, really helpful. Yeah, to do the planning prior to purchasing the website note, you would probably recommend to get the domain you can hold the domain prior to creating a website as well. Yeah,
absolutely, yeah, definitely. Google is, you know, obviously, you know, people want their websites to be found. Google likes domains that have been around for a while. So as soon as you know what your business name is going to be, grab the domain, for sure. And even have it up there with just one page to start with just, you know, just introduction, just anything, because Google needs to know that it exists. The sooner Google knows it exists, the sooner it's going to start building. Google has to learn to trust your website as well. Right? Not just visitors, Google will learn to trust it over time. And that's how you move up the rankings in Google is that Google trusts you as a resource, and as a knowledge base, and the more it trusts that the more you move up. Yeah. So yeah, definitely get your domain names are so cheap these days. If you get the wrong one, it doesn't make any difference. You know, that's right. You pick them up for 10 pounds. $10.
Yeah, I agree. And in some ways, it could be a potential investment investment, depending on the name that you choose, if you never use it. But you know, maybe someone else down the line. Might might want it. I mean, there are some definitely some great stories of large companies who have paid good money for for domain names. But that's not to say that it'll happen to you. But it is, it's just a nice, small amount of money to spend to hold on to something that might be more valuable. Later on. Absolutely.
You know, yeah, absolutely. Definitely. Some some names go on to be many things. So I don't know Do you hear in the UK, and I know in the US they there's a show called X Factor. Do you have that?
We have X Factor? Yes. So
X factor was originally a golf physio programme from a physiotherapist in Edinburgh. And she sold the name to Simon Cowell. So she made a lot of money out of that name extractor. And that you can still, you know, there are still these old VHS videos of rehab for golfers with an X factor. case on it. So yeah, you never know what the name will end up being useful.
Yeah, that's awesome. Wonderful. And so as a massage therapist, if 30 years web design for 20, what what does? What does your, your next phase of life look like?
Well, so at the moment, I am looking to, I'm growing my my website side of the business, that's the business then focus on I don't really to be honest with you, I don't really promote my massage business. I have a core bunch of regular clients, people who've been coming to see me for, you know anything about how I've got one client come to see me for 15 years. So now I have a turnover of regular clients, which suits me well, I still get new clients come in who find me via my website. But I have no idea which page I am on Google anymore. haven't got a clue. Because it's, it's just not something I'm actively promoting. I am on the other hand, I am slowly developing and growing my website business. And the hope is that eventually, you know, maybe in 510 years time, I'll transition out of massage, and just into doing the websites. I'm not ready for that just yet. But you know, 30 years is a long time to be doing massage. And I'm definitely tailoring down the amount of treatments I do every week. You know, I used to do, I used to work five days a week, I used to do a lot more treatments every week. So yeah, it's a slow transition to being more digitally based, and I suppose less location based as well.
Yeah. Is that going to be something that you want to you want to take, I do have plans to travel or live elsewhere so that you can pick up and take the design business with you?
I always have weird and wonderful plans like that. Whether they will any of them will ever come to fruition? I don't know. But, but yeah, I definitely like travelling, it'd be nice to be able to still earn a little bit of money, whilst you know, doing a little bit more travelling and being less locked into having to turn up in a room and, you know, being in a darkened room for an hour with someone.
Yeah, absolutely. But I think like your chosen, you know, career like second secondary or the dual career that choice that you have, that's pretty gonna be pretty long standing. In your experience, do you see websites being less relevant in the future or more relevant?
Oh, good question. I definitely see that I don't think they're going to change quickly, I think we're still going to be using websites, I think we're still going to be building them still need to have them for quite some time, you know, then they're not just going to fall off a cliff in two years time. I think social media is great. But I don't know the way the way that I see social media, social media are to me like stepping stones that lead you to an island, you know, and there's LinkedIn stepping stone pathway. And there's Instagram stepping stone pathway. And they all lead people where you speak to those people, and you build trust with visitors. But ultimately, you want them to go to your website, your website is your space, it's your domain, it's where you are in charge, where you get to say, what you want, how you want, where no one's going to close down your account, or, you know, so you have that autonomy with your own website. So all of social media leads you to that. And I think that's still going to be the case for a while. I mean, I think we will. And, you know, the digital world constantly changes, doesn't it? And you have to keep up with it. But I don't see them dropping off a cliff in the next couple of years. I think we've got to at least another 1020 years. Of the traditional websites we're used to.
Yeah, yeah, I love that. That's a good good point. I like that as their step like social media, stepping stones to ultimately, your your website, because that's where your you are for your services and where you ultimately want them to buy from you. or book an appointment, or Yeah, that's amazing. Can we talk about your transition from being the massage rebel? When I learned about you online, I was like, Oh, do we have some competition here from? Not at all? But yeah, can you can you talk about, you know, obviously, it was a, like a professional decision to go from the massage rebel to, to your name now.
Yeah, so I, you know, as I've said, I, you know, I've got my massage business, I've got the clinic business, I've got the web business. And there's a little bit of crossover and mismatch and, you know, trying to deal with branding identity was really the main reason why I changed it on Instagram and my social media, because so I'm still known as the message, if you come to me for a massage, is the message rebel, okay. But all of my social media now is really targeted at helping other people, whether it be through helping them with their business, or their website, or their massage therapy as other people in the wellness industry. And for that, it didn't seem appropriate to continue using it. So I've slowly transitioned away from it, because it just didn't feel right that I didn't want that crossover brand. So the message rebel is still active, but it's just confined to the message work on my message. When it comes to social media, I decided actually, to build that personal brand, which is just my name, my web, my web design business is called breathe just because I like the word but ultimately, I don't use that on my social media either because I don't know. Personal Branding I think is important and I wanted to grow that that name my name.
I like that. So you're I mean, it seems obvious when you say build your personal brand but from my understanding prior to you saying that like you're building your personal brand is a brand name not your not your name name. But it makes complete sense that you use your your name as you're moving around in the in the world and how people how you introduce yourself to people you don't introduce you introduce yourself as like the massage rebel or and I don't introduce I am fully not the radical massage therapist. I put like that out there. But yeah, I love that. That's a great reminder, like your personal brand. And I hope to see more of that and maybe I'll see it more now that I've mentioned it but that people use their personal brand is their name and not. Not this is my personal brand X Y Zed ink. Because you're you're still speaking through a filter.
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, when you think about it, when you know, when people are thinking, for example, about their website and about, you know, maybe they're just starting up their business and they think, okay, I need a name for my business, you know, so they start to think about, you know, wonderful massage names that you know, spa names, you know, that invoke some kind of feeling, you know, or you know, the other representative of what they what they feel about their business. And you can have some really wonderful, sometimes really long names for businesses. And, and that's fine, but it's still you have to tag that to who you actually are, especially if you're just a solo therapist, I mean, to be honest with you the amount of Instagram and Facebook profiles that I've been to where I've had to hunt for the actual person's real name, so that I can actually address them correctly, whereby if I message them, you have to go hunting for it. And that's not a good thing. Right, you know, especially, you know, if you're thinking about a potential client is like, okay, so this person looks great. They look like they may well be able to offer what I'm looking for. But Who the hell are they? Yeah,
yeah, absolutely. And I've gone through a few audits myself, and still a work in progress to Yeah, to make sure that, that I'm giving my myself as well as you know, the umbrella of, of the podcasts that I'm I'm under, and then somehow keeping that separate from my massage clinic and all of that. So yeah, it is it is challenging, but but worth worth looking at it from the outsider's perspective, as well, as you said, if I if they can't find your name, and you know that that can make a big difference on how long they're going to stick around as well.
Absolutely, I mean, there are some vital pieces of information that you whether it be on your website, or your social media that you really need to have, where you are, how to get in touch with you, your name, the really basics, and sometimes we're so invested in trying to make everything look amazing that we forget the absolute basics. name, location, contact details, always.
When you argue rates as well, I would you would you want to put your rate on the website, front and centre as best as you can?
Um, good question. I think so. I don't, you know, I'm not a fan of having to hunt for bits of information that are that are big decision makers. So as I said, you know, the type of service you offer is a decision maker, you know, if you're offering lymphatic drainage, and I'm looking for deep tissue massage, isn't going to work. So I need to know that up front and centre location, can I get to you? And need to know that? Price? Yes, absolutely. I personally, I have it on my front page of my website. What you know what I like to work with, they're the type of problems I like to work with, you know, I'm the type of therapist, I'm a remedial therapist. So pretty much everyone who comes to see me has something that not is painful, but sometimes painful, sometimes just doesn't feel right, sometimes just doesn't feel like it's functioning, right. So that needs to be information that's front and centre. I don't do relaxing massage, I don't do really deep, I don't do really light. You know, these are all big decision makers. So if you think it's a piece of information that will help or hinder someone making a decision, it should be front and centre.
Perfect. Wonderful. Can I give you like a couple of rapid questions before we finish up. But also, if there's anything else that you feel needs to contribute to this conversation, then please, please go right ahead. But I do want to be respectful of your time. All right. So what was the what was that last tattoo that you got?
The last tattoo I got was at the Scottish Tattoo Convention and it is a continuation I am having a leg sleeve done at the moment. So my leg is getting fully tattooed over weird things. So the left side of my body is all pictures the right side of my body as all patterns and legs lead with patterns that is slowly growing. We're nearly there.
Okay, so that will be my next question was what's the next tattoo? So it's going to be the continuation. continuation.
Okay, we're currently at 40 hours.
Oh my gosh. I love that. You've described yourself as a hippie at heart.
Yes. So um, as I said earlier, I have two sides of my personality. Well, geometric patterns on the right side. Pictures on the left side I have this Yeah. Yeah, this whimsical side and this logical side. Yeah, I love that. Definitely a hippie hippie at heart. But also, if it's too whimsical, then I have to shut it down and go evidence evidence. Give me the evidence. Okay, yeah,
fair enough. You're, you're a fellow Taurus. I am a Taurus as well. And I don't know if you've experienced it in in the massage world, but when pretty much day one in massage school, our instructor said massage therapists are very flighty. And I immediately was like, no, like, I'm a Taurus, like, I'm, I'm rounded I am, I'm here, and this is what I'm going to be doing. And I want us to one time somewhere, I'm going to be happy. But that was actually the complete opposite. I would agree that yes, we can be very flighty. Do you would you share a similar sentiment?
i Yes, I would say stubborn. Is is definitely my my definite tourist trait is definitely stubbornness. I'm more likely to do something if you told me I can't do it. Yes.
Yeah, absolutely. Amazing. So since you've, since you've you're now living in Glasgow, Scotland, but you're from England, can you share some of your favourite Scottish words that you've adopted as well, that might might be listener friendly.
Okay, so the messages. So the message is, is basically just means you're going shopping, you're going to get your groceries, okay? The message is going for the messages. There's obviously all the ways and eyes which just kind of slip into your language, no matter. You know, the longer you're here, they just creep in to the way you talk. And I don't really notice myself saying those simple things. But yes, we and I definitely come out all the time. But yeah, the message is, is probably the best one. And there are a lot of a lot of Scottish words that really are not appropriate.
Yeah, I get it. So please let people know how they can contact you whether they'd love to find you on social media or learn more about your web design business. Please share all of that info.
Yes. Yeah. So on social media, you you will still find some social media, where is the message level, there's still a transition. But otherwise, it's just my name, Trevor Jasmine. You'll find me across all pretty much on all the platforms, although Instagram is where I tend to hang out. And if you're looking for a website, then go and have a look at my website, which is breathe web design.com. That's where you can find out all the information about what I offer. And you can get in touch with me very easily from there and share what you're looking to do. And we can have a chat. Wonderful.
All right. Well, thank you so much for your time, Trevor. Any final final thoughts?
Well, thank you for having me. It's been great to chat with you. I always thought I could talk massaging websites until the cows come home. So I think if you're passionate about something like that, no matter whether you've been doing it three years or 30 years is yeah, there's so much to talk about in our industry.
Yeah, well, it's lovely to chat with you. And it definitely shows like yeah, the the interest and the passion is there and it makes it more enjoyable for the person that you're speaking to as well when that passions coming coming through. I think that that that makes a big difference. All right. Well, I hope you have an awesome day. You