44 | Hop on the LilyPad! (Lily Evans Potter/Sirius Black)

6:08AM Jul 4, 2023

Speakers:

Megs

Nathan

Keywords:

lily

james

sirius

love

episode

harry

regulus

snape

marauders

poly

podcast

feel

picturing

people

tattoos

talk

literally

character

muggle

ship

Hey there listener Fancy seeing you here. Look, sometimes due to the things we discuss on the pod, it might contain potentially triggering content. But the good news is you can always review the episode description for a full list of the warnings applicable to this episode. Oh, and just so you know, this episode is rated are really filthy. It includes adult themes and explicit content. So if you're an adult, buckle up, Gird your loins and prepare to flood the basement because we are going down with these ships ships

space, let's go to ship big. Don't care if I get my bearings. Well, then you can hit the bricks. This is my own TV

Well, welcome back to Care of Magical shippers. Podcast, a Harry Potter ship culture podcast, unofficially.

We got to put that in there got the giggles out

the way. I'm Nathan, if you didn't already know. On my lovely co host

is Max.

Max, how are you?

Oh, like we do our pre episode recording. We were already starting to dive into discussing the ship and then we're like, no, hold up. We're gonna save the episode. Yeah, we have to. So we're Rewinding back to like, okay, so we got we got stuff to talk about. But yeah, so I'm really excited. Because after Well, gosh, we we talked about last time, we could have done another Jerry. Like we could have done another Drarry. Because even listening back as at editing and stuff like that, we were like, Oh, we didn't get into like character representation, like trans characters and stuff like that, and whatever. But we can always do that in like, you know, a separate episode doesn't have to be dreary exclusive. So I figured that that could be a fun thing to talk about with a lot of different characters and stuff like that.

Definitely. Hashtag plays a lot of

you. Oh, yeah, please. Yes. And so a lot of you guys are really hype on janky lists, like we keep that keeps popping up as one that's really, really popular. So as I was kind of like exploring some things and thinking about, Okay, we've done a lot of slash, not that we're mad, but we want to make sure

we've done like 90% slash, at this point.

I updated our, our pinned post on Tumblr, which I have, like, if you read more, it lists all of our episodes, and I color coded them to be like blue is slash purple is hat or what you know, something like that, or oranges for various, you know, combinations or things like that. And I'm just like, there's so much blue.

Yeah, yeah, so, so I knew it was gonna be like a sea of blue. But yeah, hit me with it. How bad was it was it was it just

was I think, what was it like? Especially when I filtered on our website, because on our website, you can filter our episodes based on characters or ship type or category or whatever. And I think 30 of our 45 episodes at least features a slash pairing. So like is at least mentioned

I mean, it's not like that wouldn't be on brand for us. Yeah,

like gives us 15 episodes so like, literally

data doesn't even have anything to say to that because it's just like yeah,

well yeah, but it's good. It's true. Oh, so I don't really have anything to say what I will say is what I've always said which is that if you have ideas for femslash chips that you want us to feature if you have ideas for poly chips you want Mr. Feature please please please please get in touch you know our socials fine I would love to even look even if you want to like slide into telegram and send me a voice note I like those or you could say look Nathan this constant slash shipping is getting on my nerves you need to do this and then I will be not only will I love interacting with you but also we'll get on it will will then add that to our list of upcoming stuff that makes it sound like we are very organized and yes it does you know by now that we are but what I mean to say is that we will take any and all requests really seriously and then have a lot of fun laughing about them in

so it was so of course yeah, discussion of jagged lists and whatnot. So it's like okay, if James ends up with Regulus, then that leaves Lily obviously free to be with whoever and I was actually talking in like a marauders Discord server, about like Oh, who Do you ship Lily with and a lot of people put her into sapphic pairings which doesn't surprise me a lot of the times it is that way. It's like okay, so we have James and Regulus. We have Wolfstar. And then we have Lily and Mary or Lily and Dorcas or Lily and Narcissa, which I also really like. But this time around, we're like, Okay, we'll do a hit ship. But now I'm like, Okay, I gotta go back to Lily for other things. Like, that'll be so much fun. So this time we're going to be doing what now we are officially calling lily pad which is Lily slash Series.

I love that ship name. Can I just say, I never actually thought you made it up. But then it was some normally people in our Discord had said, No, I've heard this before. So that's a very cute name. Well done. I approve.

Yeah, because I immediately went to okay, even if it wasn't like a jugular situation, but it was still just James pining after Lilly like he do. But then Lily and updating the best friends. Like that's just spicy content that I absolutely love. And you were saying that you're going to need some convincing of this? Is that mainly because you're so like committed to like Wolfstar? Or like seeing?

Yeah, exactly. I mean, I really only see Sirius and Lupin together. And that's just common. It's just my headcanon. And it's possible for them to see other people, you know, maybe they have an open relationship and see other people but they're still seeing each other in the background in my head, because they're just the glue that holds my love of this fandom together. But so I'm prepared to be convinced because ultimately, we know this, we know what the formula is by now you come to me with an idea and you're like, Let's do x. And then I'm like, Hmm, I'm really not sure about this. And then the more we talk about it by the end of the episode, I'm like, Yes, this is the hardest I've ever shipped anything ever. So you you should teach persuasion because you're very good at it.

i Yeah, and I love that for me

the sliver in you is just preening right now like yes, of course. I'm happy to say everything.

My face is all read now. Patreon people you can see how much I'm blushing right now. But yeah, which is Yeah. Oh man, so this will be Yeah, this will be fun. I love especially like this wasn't something that I've I don't think I've read or read a little bit Nope, that is not true. Okay, so the reason why I did ask about Lily with someone else like in general because I am a big sname shipper. Of course that's why Jack Gillis to me still hasn't caught my attention like I like I'll be honest, I haven't read very much of it. Oh,

there are so many of them that are gonna feel betrayed by what you just said.

I know they are and that's why I'm not going to rush a Jag Ulis episode like I do have friends that are like you have to read but so I want to read stuff before diving into whatever for them but like as I've said before like Wolfstar I don't I'm not like passionate about Wolfstar either but when it comes to like James and serious like always usually play around with you know Remus and and serious together but also so I but I also have read that it was like a lily and James were kind of trying and then fell out and then it was James and Severus and then Lily and Syria's ended up kind of connecting and in those stories which I think is kind of common in a lot of these stories but I couldn't really speak for in Wolfstar thick because I haven't read a lot of Wolfstar so you can obviously tell me but a fuck boy serious is like cannon like he's you know he's like He knows the spice boy serious Yeah, he knows he's hot he's getting around you know pansexual serious is absolutely a thing just making his rounds there's also the not going to come to terms with my sexuality serious that's just getting around with all the ladies and then is not going to write is having a trouble accepting that he might like his friend or friends or whatever so that is another like when you see the conflict especially between Lily and James and then expecting like Oh, James turns a new leaf come you know, their final year or whatever. It's like you can see serious as someone who's like it's like an equal like how did that happen as her and James because it's like serious obviously had a big impact, if not like a stronger impact depending on how you interpret things as far as like cruelty to her friend, you know, Severus. Yeah, so her getting with any of the marauders is always really interesting, like, how do we get there? But then there's also the out of character or if you could also, you know, defend it being in character because we don't know Lily, like, apart from the small little blips of, you know, Stapes memories that, you know, at the end of the series, like we don't really know, like, everyone's like, Oh, she's sweet or whatever. Like, what if she is really into bad boys or she's one who? Yeah, like it just or she's even someone who's a little bit like, I don't know that like she could be anything. And that's what's wonderful about this.

Lily's a golf. Yes.

Oh, my gosh, long beautiful red hair. But then she's got this thick. I love these wings that are just, you know, oh my gosh, that would be really is

a mistress of the smoky eye. I could just choose that. She's got it down

with those green eyes. Yeah, just look. Oh my gosh,

those eyes have to pop. Right? Of course, she's gonna Of course, she's gonna make heads turn. But it's because she knows how fierce she actually is. I think she went to the sort of Snape School of the dramatic entrance. There's a select number of students who have that quality. And I really feel like Lily has that in abundance, which when you pair it with something like non binary serious begins to take on a really cool quality. You know, I really just love I guess I like anything that plays with Lily because like you say, we don't know her canonically and what we do see through Snape is pretty problematic because let's face it, his love for her is obsessional. It's not coming from a place

of it's a rosy like look at her as a character. Yeah.

And he has fixated on certain things he likes about her early on, and then not really adapted his view as everybody has grown. And that is you know what, I'm not here to talk about Snape. Nathan, bring the conversation.

I know I know we do. I'm like now I'm picturing but I'm going to translate this into serious but because we have gotten on golf literally. I picture her and Severus like sitting on the in the courtyard painting each other's nail, yes, you know, black and then serious being like, you know, either bumping into her in the common room or something like that. And maybe he has a crush on lily. And she's he's like, Oh, would you paint my nails to kind of like jokingly and she's like, Yeah, sit down. Let's do this. And then it's like, okay, I guess we're doing this and it just kind of that starts that whole like actual them conversing and then serious goes back to their dormitory, and James punches him in the face because it's hanging out with Lily.

Okay, yeah, because James is addict today. Yeah.

Maybe not in the face, like a gut punch. I love James let's let's be fair. I love James but he can also be canonically an asshole or Yeah, he very sweet and, you know, redeem him. So

we're using James as a proxy for toxic masculinity today, is that what we're doing? Oh, man, I mean, I'm fine with that. For the conceit of Lily getting together with that serious. I think it's cool. But also someone that needs to punch James like, yeah, eventually I'm gonna need some sort of retaliatory. Actually, I'd love if it was looping.

Yes, yeah, I was thinking that too, either. In the moment, yeah, it was remiss. I definitely like when it's specially like getting close to the full moon. And he gets really more like easily agitated or is on edge or things like that. And so sometimes he's, you know, because you could see him as someone who's a little bit more reserved, and has like, is one of the more meek and studious marauders, but then you could kind of transform into something a little bit more out of character closer to the full moon before and after. So a lot of times, they joke with Remus that it's like his time of the month, like when it's like, his little time of the month because he's, you know, has his grouchy period, you know, which is obviously always a very, yes, not okay, that, you know, thing to use in such a way, especially for those who menstruate and things like that. Oh, yes,

exactly.

It you know, it's funny in that context of I also could see Lily doing it too. So yeah, I want her to be like really powerful, like, like badass, kind of like BAMF Lily is always really fun, because she's always described to be really talented magically.

See, this is where this is potentially a bit of a spicy path to go down. But I kind of feel like Lily is everything Ginny wishes she was that I'm hesitant to make too many direct comparisons between Lily and Ginny, because I don't like the idea that we, you know, form relationships with our parents by default, you know, and I don't like the idea that Harry is just dating his mother that you No, no, but I think there are, there's definite areas of overlap there. But Lily has to be badass to be blunt about it, because she's come from a background like Harry knowing nothing about the wizarding world being thrust into it to that and be to be able to go toe to toe with people like the marauders who the marauders were all exceptionally gifted wizards because they created the marauders Man When have you ever known magic being used in a way like that with any buddy else? I mean, this is it's an exceptional bit of magic is effective in demonstrating just how set apart they are. So then for Lily to be sort of on an even keel with them. She has to be you know, she's right up there. But then also, if she wasn't if she weren't, Snape wouldn't be crushing on her so hard. So there's there's that too, I kind of feel like Lily was done an injustice and some attempt to write Ginny as being able to produce a really cool that bogey hex was actually writing Lily retro actively or seeing Lilly through a sort of a more modern day lens on the part of the author who shall not be named. And what I like now about what we're doing particularly with with goth Lily, is that we're taking that power and that and that panache and expressing it as part performative, which I love Lily, I really, like in this scenario, I want her and Snape to be like besties. And like learning the dramatic arts for each other.

Mm. Yeah, I would love them to be I mean, I just like I could see like, both with like black lipsticks, snips like hair kind of like trooping in his face. Yes, whatnot. But then she's still like, super gorgeous. So people are like, Oh, they're the they're the weird people. But also still someone like James is like, but she's really hot, though. Like, they're weird, but she's really. Like, they're the ones playing like the Wizard equivalent of Dungeons and Dragons, also called Dungeons and Dragons, because why wouldn't it also be?

Yeah, okay, so now I see like, Game Master Lily. And then and then serious, like anyone who's crushing on lily, like serious, especially, it's like, oh, yeah, I'm totally into board games and these sorts of just Muggle stuff or whatever. And like, decides to join whatever this right nerd club that they that they have. Or maybe like, he doesn't want the other routers to know about it. And so maybe we talk about how gifted they are. Yeah, but if he does use his polyjuice potion in ways that it's like so he can like do things that he knows that he might have been teased for by his fellow marauders sort of thing, and then grows a connection with Lily. And I could see like, what if, like, he and James are just hanging out like they are. And James makes a comment about Lily and then Sirius might just be Oh, she'd never say something like that. It'd be bubble blonde James like, well, how the hell do you know that like, oh, I spent Monday Thursdays and Fridays with her for two hours each night. Right now there's a really intense l four and

let's just say I rolled the D 24. Initiative and the rest is

oh, man, that comes into play. You know, because there's sometimes there's people who like oh, it's just so difficult being this beautiful or handsome or whatever. And so does. It's just so hard. And it's just so difficult.

Today, I looked in the mirror. I'm too gorgeous. I just I need to stop honestly, like I'm too fabulous.

Yeah, so what if serious develops, like even not necessarily polyjuice potion or, but figures out some sort of like glamour or transformative? Or what if he actually has metamorph make his powers because because tonx is like a black it could have been a random black trait. So then it's something that like, oh, Sirius is able to manipulate and get into, you know, certain things. We think of it as like, Oh, he's an omega. So then therefore, he can explore and get to things that you wouldn't think but it's like, Oh, if he's a metamorph, you know, make us as well, then that gives them the opportunity to literally like interact as a human right No differently and whatnot. But yeah, I love the idea of a secret friendship. And of course, like, then obviously Lily wouldn't know, especially if he's not coming forth as his actual right identity. I've definitely read plenty of other works with other ships that are this way where it's like, oh, especially when Harry uses a glamour because he doesn't want people to look at him as the famous Harry Potter. Right? Yeah, of course, he wants people to get to know Him. And so then that turns into a whole thing of like, you build a relationship with someone but then you have to come clean of this is actually not me. I'm actually this other person. And then that usually causes this big dramatic riff trust issues. Yeah, yeah. And so it's like because I trusted you and you're not even who you said you are, blah, blah, blah. So I could see that being a huge thing between serious and Lily when she finally came to terms with it, but I also could, could imagine Severus figuring it out first, of course, you know, like somehow and then he uses it to like, does something black melee to serious so that he doesn't tell Lily

and that's also punny, by the way blackmail? Oh, yeah. Okay, now also but sidebar, I'm now also seeing the potential for a jagged list Part Two episode where we discuss if metamorph majors powers are a black family trait, that it follows that Regulus has them as well, just saying

that's true. Yeah, yeah, that's quite Yeah, it's quite possible that it was something that may be that they were discouraged from using, unless it was something that you know, could be used to their benefit. Like maybe that was why Baltimore was so interested in Regulus, and serious, even though serious beforehand was obviously kicked out of the house and was never going to follow. But Regulus felt very important and valued in the Death Eaters, even at a very young age because of said skill or whatnot. Oh, and that's another thing to say. It's like, what if he used that in some fashion to avoid going to Azkaban in the first place are able to get out of as cabanne. Right. Or somehow he was able to go to ask a ban and couldn't use such powers or just didn't because of energy, especially if it was something where his animators form helped him avoid the emotional stuff. And that took kind of all of his like magical core to that versus like, changing his appearance for whatever reason. But the reason why they couldn't find him for so long was not only like he can turn into a dog, but he can also change his appearance and stuff like that. And so you know,

I love this because you don't just take a premise, and analyze it and speculate. What you do is you you write movie scripts live on the podcast. Yeah. And they're very evocative, and they add such flavor. And I think this is part of the reason why you persuade me so hard, is that then because I have such a good visual brain, I'm seeing exactly what you're describing. And I love these various movie ideas. I mean, obviously, we're serious is concerned

over HBO, I have a series for

Exactly, exactly. really grateful to you for these very textured, very layered atmospheric pieces of entertainment that you give me that really set the scene. Because obviously with Sirius, you know, anytime that we talk about him, you're going to be thinking about Azkaban and all the things that he had to do to either survive it or escape it. And I liked the idea even though I don't really know how we could get this to work. But if Lily somehow escaped death and serious somehow escaped ask about and they just like, I love the idea of them just running away together. I've just been like, you know, previous associations have just been too difficult. We just need to start a new life in Egypt, wherever it is,

especially if they if people assume they're dead, or they're safer being that they're dead. Yeah, especially for Harry like if Harry's still like alive after everything and they're able to kind of flee with Harry it's a huge thing because either one one thing could be obviously serious is going to love Harry like a father figure being like his godfather. Another thing I've played with, which is also spicy is serious is actually Harry's dad. Right?

Okay, because even

though he has like wild black hair, it just depends on if you're going off of James being like a person of color versus, you know, being like, predominantly like white characters. There could be crossover traits between the blacks and the potter's especially when we go into all the like sacred 28 And how the, you know, keeping the bloodline pure and everyone's been with everybody sort of thing and so then they could actually be very similar looking even though and then even though a serious is hair is like longer usually like longer and so he could have like wild hair but longer which is what we see as a characteristic and Bellatrix so it would make sense though it also translate to into serious so then what if it was a they couldn't tell because it's not like with Harry SR aside from Oh you look just like your dad but you have your, you know your mom's eyes but it's like what if there's you know that similarity between James and serious so then it's like, oh, they don't know or Billy knows of a you know, some somehow that you know comes about so that it's and maybe serious knows too and has to go through life. Like it say that everyone lives sort of thing and she does end up with James and he has to live with the fact that he knows that he's actually Harry's, like blood related father and he only he only gets the position of being his godfather, you know, sort of thing. So which could have been like pushed by Lily as well like being like, Oh, we really should choose serious because he's your best friend, you know, sort of thing, even though it's like, actually he's the one is very sad.

Yeah, there's there's that. I have a question, though. It's a technical question. You may not be able to answer it. I don't know if I'm expecting an answer. How does polyjuice potion work? If your poly juiced? And then you have sex with someone? And you have a child? And does the child take on the half the DNA of the poly juiced person? Because we know it's based on DNA? Right? Right. In order for poly Jews to work, you have to take some of the hairs of the it's

completely transforming your body to become and completely the other person. And like the movies do the weird thing where you still keep your voice but in the books that's not the case, you are genuinely that person, which also makes no sense because why the hell would moody sound the way he does if his voice didn't change into alastar? Moody's voice? It doesn't make any sense.

Yeah, no, that doesn't make sense. So well done. Movies are a needless incongruity.

Yeah, so I would say that it would probably be the DNA, you know, the DNA of the person you were transformed into, because you wouldn't have there.

Okay, yeah. Okay, so one of two things is possible here. It's possible that Sirius poly juiced into James and then Lily realized this afterwards, or it's possible that James knew that Lily really fancied serious more poly deuced into serious who

allow that so I could see I could see that too. Because we go into how like it's another thing like James to Lily is we could put on the same plane of obsession as like Harry and Draco sort of thing, right? Yes, yes, definitely not giving up on lily obviously, like the whole time through school. So I could definitely see him going to the extent of like, we talked about all these toxic situations that we should not do in our real life. But this is fanfiction.

Don't do this. Don't try this.

But if he wanted to do literally anything that Lily wanted of him so that they could be together. And if that's like, sorry, James, you don't do it for me. But if we you know, it's like, oh, yeah, so that could be

Oh, sorry. random question. So we know serious has tattoos from having been asked that at some stage. Well, I don't know if we if they're in the books, but they're definitely I

don't think they're in the books but correct us if we're wrong, but I'm pretty sure that it's It's definitely like a choice that was made like all the ruins and stuff like for the movies, I'm pretty sure

Yeah, so let's just assume for the moment that Sirius has tattoos that he got in ask about and if someone were to take one of his has poly juice into him, would the tattoos be there or because it's only taking his like DNA? It's not been like, inked into the second body? Right. So would Lily be able to tell that it wasn't really serious?

I'm immediately picturing Okay, so you know, do you know Sun sleeves?

No, I don't. Okay,

so there's like so you can like buy like like kind of like, there's like SPF shirts obviously that you can wear when swimming to like help okay now, but you can also buy like literal sleeves that you can cover your arms like a lot of like truck drivers and stuff will use them because their arms are right by the window so like you can still get you know sunburn through the windows and stuff like that if you're in the cars long term. So I they often have ones that like are covered in tattoos. So like what what if Holly just serious was like, Okay, it's dark and is literally wearing a shirt that's had, like been sublimated with like a, like a super buff BOD and all the tattoos all over it and like that was literally like it's like when you wear like a, like a costume with someone with tattoos and you're wearing something that's like looks like a body or skin and then has the tattoos on it. So yeah, like serious sans the tattoos I had. So

that's, that's, that has to be now that I think about it. There have to be wizarding temporary tattoos that you could just magic onto yourself. Although would the person doing the switch it and well if it's James I guess he would. So there have to be wizarding temporary tattoos. And I'm thinking with the person doing the switching know where and what the tattoos were. But if it's James unserious, and they've known each other for years, of course he would yes or

at the very least he has he could pull a memory of serious and share it with that artist and then the artists build and replicates that design and then James could sign off on it and then wow, this is really extreme of James like, why are you so obsessed with her that you would go to this temporary test phase so that you could be serious because Lily like serious and not yet

it's so that James won't write in his been booked that Lily Potter is a fugly slot?

Oh, it says Sirius Black is a fugly oh man,

so when did Sirius get the motorbike? Do we know to like it? Was it like an acquisition when he was older? Or did he have it? The like Fred and George have Mr. Weasleys car has it always just sort of been a fixture

see it that's that always interests me because of course, like Arthur had played around with the car and like made it flying and stuff like that. Like even though like the Moto bike is definitely Muggle like they there's no other person that has transportation in the wizarding world like that bike. So part of me is like, what if for whatever reason, like back when Arthur was younger, because I think that Arthur is 10 years older than the marauders. And yeah, I think you'll you know, so even when, you know, they were like, upper teens or low, you know, low 20s That would put Arthur in a position that maybe that was when he was starting to like experiment with Muggle things and it was one of his first successful things that he did. What if the reason why he got into his position at the ministry was kind of like that, that trade off of he was discovered doing all this questionable stuff with Muggle things and it was like, Okay, you can you have a choice whether to go to ask him for this or help us like a handleable situation, like, you know, like pulling someone in that, you know, that can like think like the person making the stuff like sort of thing. Like there's there's a lot of kind of, like, cry me shows that are like, Oh, we pull in this random expert that isn't a, like a mentor member of police or anything like that, but they happen to have a connection to like, whatever thing is going on? Yes. So so that could be part of it. Like maybe, yeah, he got it from Arthur Weasley way back when and because that could fall into his like rebel stage of like, When would he be able to because you know, he's riding it around. And so I imagine that he would probably have some sort of Muggle license when when are you? When do you get your, like independent driver's license? Or like, at in the UK?

I, I'm not really sure. But I think you can take the theory test from when you're 16. Okay, and I think you you're able to drive from when you're 18 I don't drive myself so that could be absolutely made up. But I feel like that's if that's not right. It's in the ballpark anyway, I think you're definitely able to, you might it might be one of those things where you're able to, like take the driving tests before you actually turn 18 And then you can drive once your your rating.

Gotcha. Yeah. So I could see it being something that another piece of that rebellion against his parents is like that connection to the Muggle world could also be a reason why at first, he's not genuinely into Lily, but is into Lily because she's a Muggle born. So it literally is like going for the person that his family would hate the most.

Right? Yes. So

that's the That's another fun take, like regardless of James's feelings for Lily, like it could be coming back to, to fuckboys serious being like, I'm gonna go for, you know, the person that my parents would absolutely be disgusted if I had any sort of relationship with this person, but then Lily is very much I'm not interested, sort of thing. And it becomes his like goal to do so. So which is like purely from a physical standpoint, and then eventually over time, it turns into love or whatever, but oh my gosh, oh my gosh, I just can't Okay, so brain blast, so

mags just had a mental explosion. I'm gonna try and paint the mental picture, for those of you that aren't seeing the video feed right now. But the eyes grew about three times larger than they normally are. This massive like epiphany face just appeared as if from nowhere. So I'm very, like, excited for what's about to happen.

Okay, so have you seen 10 Things I Hate About You

know, I have got it. I know. It makes me a terrible gay. Like,

okay, so do you mind if I give you a little like summary of what it is? Yeah, no, go ahead. Yeah. Okay. So there is a kind of like, I think he's a new student. It's been a long time since I've seen this, but he has a crush on someone who's like obviously the cute popular girl. He's like the new awkward kid. But the only people that can date the sister it's like has to have approval from the older sister. And it's a play off of The Taming of the Shrew. It's literally a story built around The Taming of the Shrew so Okay, Ledger's character pay for Shakespeare retell, right yeah, I mean, it's really good. So Heath Ledger is the character that said nerdy kid like pays to get the older sister to fall in love with him like be the one to like, so that she can feel like satisfied and validated in love for herself so that she doesn't care about her sister's love life anymore. For sure. Yeah, yeah, sort of thing. So I could see this being a lily and Petunia situation. And then serious and then whoever we want to match up with Petunia sort of thing in some sort of alternative thing. So then yeah, so initially at serious didn't have feelings for Lilly, but had been you know, bribed or like had some sort of benefit to like pursue her to the extent beyond the same thing could be for like James to but I love it for serious because it's like we have in Cannon like how, how in love James Potter is with Lily, but then serious like he could definitely go in. I don't you know, I'm like I can do this like I'm hot stuff like of course I can. And he's like this like outcasts bad boy, who like, you know, who would want to get close to him? Anyway, but it's also super hot because it seats Fletcher. So. But yeah, so that would be a really fun, a you a 10 Things I Hate About You.

Definitely. I now need to go and watch that movie clearly. Because that was that's how do I not know that this exists? Well, I just I guess, sometimes I haven't watched movies, because the title kind of throws you off. And I guess I really didn't want to sit down and watch a movie where people were just hating on each other. But that I did watch Mean Girls. Yeah. You know, what does that say about me? Yeah,

it's it's great. Like, it's really cute. Like, Yeah, cuz, because towards the end, it's like, obviously, she finds out that he's been paid to fall, you know, to get her to fall for him. But then he gets genuine feelings. So then she feels betrayal, even though he's trying to prove to her that his feelings are genuine. Like, yes, the initial thing that happened wasn't in good faith. But this turned into something real. And so then she reads this, like, she has like a presentation she has to make and like some writing class or like poetry or something like that. And her thing is literally, these 10 It's literally 10 Things I Hate About You is like what she reads to the share together. And it's like everything at the end. It's like, like, I hate that I love you sort of thing. Like goes through all this, all this shit, she hates about him and then at the end, like, you know, like I like I hate that you've you know, you've made me love you and you know, sort of thing. And so then it's obvious that then something will happen. They'll meet you know, have some common ground and they'll end up together sort of thing. And so, so yeah, so there we go. Someone please make this?

Well, for those of you that don't know, I dabble in performance poetry. And I'm fairly certain that now looking back at this, I've heard several parodies of that entire conceit and not knowing that it's from that movie. That's where it's coming from. So So thank you for filling in those gaps. I now know what those people were doing.

Now your context Yes, and now you're gonna know what's gonna, like show up soon. Like, you're gonna notice something like that. And you're like, Wow, no, I actually know because that's what happens when you learn about something new. All of a sudden, that's literally all you see everywhere. I'm like, I never saw this before. Why am I seeing this? All right now?

I know. No. It's like I had never seen Goodwill Hunting until recently for probably for the same reason that the title threw me off. But you know, it's Robin Williams. It's Matt Damon. What's not to love? i We definitely need to talk about like a some sort of Snape a you that involves that again for another episode. Let me let me bring it back to our main parent. Yes. I always thought so. We know that James is often characterized as the sort of the jockey type that will you know, sort of run it Lily and throw himself in with both feet as it were, what if Lily is the kind of person who prefers the slow burn? Where the you know, she enjoys initially the hot and heavy stuff with James, but it kind of fizzles? And from serious his point of view, what if serious were demisexual? What if he didn't conceive of developing, you know, physical feelings for the elite until, you know, a time during which they grow closer together? That's also a possibility. And I mean, I know Sirius is is characterized as, you know, a bit of a ladies man. But what if that is mostly bravado and ego, and actually behind that there's a lot of, because if we think about it, he's not coming from a stable home. He doesn't like his home environment, his family and run totally antithetical to what you know, the sorts of philosophy he espouses. So then in Lily, he's potentially seeing not only somebody who can love but who is partly a healthy kind of escape from that feeling of being trapped, you know,

especially with serious this character, it could genuinely have started that he just he just hates his family and wants to do the exact opposite, because he hates how controlling of his life it is. Not necessarily that I think I've probably mentioned it when we talked about series before, either in the Wolfstar episodes or whatnot, but that he doesn't necessarily hold the values of like, Muggle borns are the same or whatever but it's just it's just him being rebellious to his family. So then Lily being the person that actually shows him and validates that like him going against his parents is more than just a rebellion it's genuinely I don't believe what they believe you know, anymore now now that is making my choice to separate myself from them even more important so right yeah, because it can be easy to just like any kid like oh, I you know, I don't like that because you like that sort of thing, even though you really don't have an actual opinion. So then time with Lily or around any other Muggle born situation is great. I've also read like some like squib Regulus stuff so it's like him finding ways to like protect his you know, brother or ways to convince his parents that Regulus is not you know, sort of thing or it's the blacks. The blacks are interesting. It's just an interesting whole family tree of of NIS.

Yeah, yeah. And you know, when the fact that we see all these dark wizards ostensibly through the same lens, the blacks, the Malfoys, the Voldemort's, you know, you know, Tom Riddle isn't coming from a massive lineage or anything, but we see them all through that same kind of guys, where you're either you know, the, I suppose this works well for the conceit of a children's book, but in no other circumstance, which is why fanfiction is so great, which is that in the books, the delineation between black and white and good and evil is so cut and dried, that the the evil almost becomes very theatrical. Like and we don't even really see Voldemort doing it, like, yes, he kills people, but it's implied that like to make a Horcrux you have to be doing something incredibly dark to to take the, you know, the murder that you've just committed and turn it into an abomination against the soul or whatever. The point is, is that the, I guess, when serious was younger, it may have been easier For him to buy into this grandiose image of power, as being compelling, and that the there was no easy distinction at that age, at a young age between being powerful and being proud of that, and being dark, and actively supporting causes that step on other people, I think, you know, for every wizard going to Hogwarts, there has to be that moment of epiphany, where you're like, oh, no, actually, you know, I'm going to school with these people, there isn't this level of, you know, I can't remove myself from that reality anymore. And if especially if you add romance into the equation, if you fall for somebody who is or has been sort of socio politically so different from everything that you've believed in, to then be hit with all of that must be well paradigm expanding, but also it has to turn you upside down a little bit. And we've seen adult serious so that we we know he grows up into a reasonably good if troubled guy, but the question is, how much cajoling and how much persuasion Do you think it took from Lily? To get him to realize that his worldview was coming from a place of extreme toxicity?

Yeah, I think it also would come down to like, maybe not necessarily, like, like them having forced proximity, you know, like, what if they're, like, partners and potions or like, you know, something like that. And then it's like her just being friendly, or just talking about her life or just like, or different Muggle things. And at first, he's just like, sitting there, like, Oh, my God, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, sort of thing. Yeah, like assholes do and then eventually he's like, Huh, that's really interesting. And then he slowly gets, like, more invested and curious and starts actually asking questions and things like that. And that really comes down to a lot of times when people have, you know, very, a very, like, small frame of mind, that's like, it's all they know, like, they haven't been exposed to anything different. So him getting the opportunity to actually be like, oh, one of these people who were deemed as like bad and like evil and wrong, is sitting next to me and one of the sweetest people I've ever met sort of thing. Another thing that I kind of like, is similarly fits into this as like, I could also see there being a lot of angst with their potential relationship being that like, right, even though she has issues with Petunia, as far as what we can understand her and her parents had a really good relationship, like she came from a loving home. And like her being excited and happy to like, introduce Sirius to her parents, but then knowing that Sirius can never introduce her to his parents and how that might really, you know, affect her

because that one, that one hits in the soul?

Yes. It's like, that's just so hard to to really like, think about especially you think and you know, I mean, plenty of that happens in real life too. But like in the Muggle world, I could see her being like, oh, yeah, like the dreamy of like, one day, they'll have the white wedding and get married and our families will come together and whatnot. And then all of a sudden, her life is turning into something that was way different than what she you know, pictured it to be. Then there also could be the conflict and ultimate maybe breakup of them of like, serious person, though, who she wanted serious to grow into. He doesn't like or she like she thinks that she can change his behavior sort of thing, but he doesn't, you know, sort of thing.

I was gonna say the big change with yes, that always comes into it. But I mean, you know, we've done poly ships before we've talked about, you know, poly cules and things. It's also perfectly feasible to me that Lily and James and Sirius are together and I know that there's a lot of fanfiction that does that as well. I've read some of it. It's good. You should read it.

Yeah, yeah, I love that because then you could also play play off of like, oh, that's why Sirius is the Godfather too even though there's he's still part of their like trio of like, and I a lot of times I do read it from the aspect of Starbucks of James and serious because Lily knows like, oh, you and your best friend actually have like a deeper love that you need to like confront and I support you in this sort of thing. So even though like and James is like, but I you know, I still love Lily so much, but that's okay. You're allowed to love more than one person sort of thing. And, and so but for it to be Lily, kind of not to say that the three of them couldn't, it couldn't be a triad situation and not like a, I don't know, like a, like, I don't know how to describe the, like a Victoria did and when we, in our second episode of the different types of poly dynamics were like, like, like a hinge thing like,

yeah, it's cold. So there the in certain kinds of poly dynamics there is the hinge who act as you know, keeps a separate from see if there be if that makes sense.

Okay, so I was like, Am I making this up? Like? Nope.

Oh, definitely no, because since we talked about that episode, I have done my Jenning up on poly dynamics. And so I know a little bit more, a little bit wiser. But there's still so much to learn, but I

Nathan's seeking more knowledge absurd.

How dare How dare I be so brazenly Ravenclaw. I know, it's terrible. Like I went to an independent bookshop recently. And they're, they're LGBTQ i A plus bookshop locally. And I did spend 60 quid on books, and I have never been happier to spend so much money on, you know, all of this extra curricular material, because local independent book shops need your support. And especially when it comes to things like this, that are fun to read about, but also expand the paradigm and encourage everybody to love in more ways than they even thought possible.

Absolutely. So I definitely, I think it's very wholesome to think of the three of them together, especially with little hairy like, it's just their happy little family. Yeah.

Oh, definitely. Yes. It's so cute. It's very fluffy. That's a me image.

And it could have been something where that was, you know, it easily could fit into Canon to where they were together and serious happened to, obviously was the one to find out what happened and go after Peter. And then shortly thereafter, but he was he just happened to not be at home when Baltimore came and attacked the potters. And of course, is the reason why he feels like he deserved to be locked away and things like that, because he literally lost everything, including Harry like for Dumbledore to take Harry away. That just in that, that, to me feels like the biggest cruelty even with serious like, being his godfather only still, it's like the reason why he was named that was because that he could be trusted by his parents to care for. Exactly. And but for Dumbledore to blatantly be like, you know, to tell haggard, like sorry, no, I gotta take him to his muggles, who are, you know, shitty, or whatever? It's just like, that just doesn't,

um, it doesn't it doesn't track Yeah, doesn't

give serious the opportunity to then want to fight for his freedom, because I think ultimately, he feels the guilt of what happened and there's nothing left for him. That gives him hope. And so when he's taken, right, yes, he just, I don't think he really fights for it. You know, like, I feel like they really could have Yeah, come up with a way to show that he was innocent. Like, I just I feel like there had to have been opportunities there that he just didn't want to take because he felt like he or he deserved it, you know?

Yeah, but but this is also another example of the wizarding world being awful. Because the fact that the spell that we're talking about that protects Harry only applies to the nearest blood relatives of Lily, and doesn't apply to those who actually loved him most. You see, this is this is where I start to split hairs with because is it that Lily died for Harry? Or is it that Lily's blood is magical? It could be one or the other? And love comes out? Okay? This is gonna sound like it's very predicated upon found family, which of course it is. But love comes in many shapes and sizes. And certainly it's been my experience that the people that love you most aren't necessarily the people to whom you're related to by blood. I'm fortunate that I have a quite a close knit family that loved me a lot. And I love them a lot. But I realized that that isn't the case for everybody, and for serious not only to have to go through what 13 years of isolation, but to also be sort of summarily torn away from the one bit the one last little bit of living hope and decency to just be left to weather is unspeakably cruel. And so if there can be an AU where he used together with Lily and or Lily and James, then why, who wouldn't want that? If you do not want this fluff listener, I will fight you.

Okay, so now I'm thinking of coming back to movies. Although it's like, I don't even remember why I watched it, but it's it. So there's there's the movie Pearl Harbor with Ben Affleck and I don't remember her the other guy's name. But ultimately, in the movie, like Ben Affleck goes missing like he's missing an action and people presume his dead it's been a year or whatever amount of time. So then it's literally his fiancee and his best friend that like are supporting one another and falling in love. And then all of a sudden he's found and like comes home. So then it's like, shit, she's in love with one guy, but also this was her fiance. So it was like this complicated thing. So now I'm picturing that with like, say that Lily serves Lily and Harry survived, you know, with Voldemort and James pass so then it was literally serious and Lily raising, raising Harry together and then falling in love because of that. Yes. But then what if James came back

we've reached a podcast milestone Meg's because I didn't want to like cut you off in the mid in the middle of your flow. But you you've told that story before. You've used the Pearl Harbor analogy before on the podcast and I think it may have been on the Snape Lily James episode.

Really? Oh my god. We'll see it with the pie with James. James. poly.

You've definitely talked to me about this before

see it my thoughts are valid because I am invested enough to that's so funny. You've already done someone else. That doesn't surprise me once.

It's still valid. It still works. I just I'm really happy because this happens to well seasoned podcasts. I mean, I didn't think we'd be celebrating our two year anniversary but like a couple of months ago That's crazy to me. So the fact that we've been doing this two years and we're still going and look we were supposed to stop at an hour it's an hour and five where it's going I just What a fun podcast to be on. Thank you mags for twisting my arm like two and a half years ago that December you were like hey, do you fancy like CO hosting this podcast project? I was like, huh, that sounds like fun and look at us two and a half years later.

I know it's bizarre so as we're like coming up on when we have to wrap up so how are you feeling about serious and Lily now?

Yeah, yeah I'm there's been a definite warming to the situation happening I don't know that I don't massively ship it. But the but the like, the flag is ascending the flagpole I just don't know where like, we're, we're at full mast. But there's a there's a certain amount of appreciation there. Yeah. And I, I appreciate the enthusiasm. And please don't take this the wrong way listener but I'm looking forward to returning to our regularly scheduled slash content very soon.

We're so that we are who we are. That's it.

No, no, look, I'm sorry. Like you couldn't even come on the podcast, we will did like we'll have you on as a guest host. If you are passionate about something, maybe you've written something. And you're like, Oh, this is a femslash pairing they haven't covered and you're excited about it. Come on the podcast, we'll have you on as guest host will treat you like royalty. It will be excellent. And then we can get excited with you.

Okay, so a month from now is LeakyCon in Chicago. And unfortunately, as far as I know, none of the shipping panels went through which is very sad. I'm very I'm very upset about that. But they've went in a direction that's like It's like expanding fandoms so it's like it's just it's gonna be handled very differently. Like even last thing dream cloth or like Jeff had contacted them about wizard rock shows and no one's heard anything or been asked to perform yet. Which seems really crazy. Really,

that surprises me.

But the plan is I should be there Saturday and Sunday. I'm pretty sure I'll definitely clarify specifically. So if anyone is gone Oh Wang, I would love to meet you. That would be awesome. That's like, I think it'll be about a month from now the fifth, the fourth, fifth and sixth, but then the fifth and sixth I think is the weekend that all hopefully nice. I'm excited to hopefully meet some of you folks out would be so much fun. So

I Okay, so you need to like take photos with mags and then send them to me. Then I'm like, yeah, please go and see mags. She's an awesome human being and you're gonna have an amazing time. It's gonna be LeakyCon is gonna be incredible. I love that stop news about the wizard rock panels and shipping panels. But I'm sure there was a you know, a reasonable executive decision behind that. We just don't know what that might be. But, but you're you're gonna be there anyway. What do you have like a booth or anything?

Well, there's the wizarding wireless collective, which is like all Harry Potter podcasts that kind of come together like a Koya. Put together. Yes, sir. Yeah, so

cool. Yeah. Simone from fanatical and yes, started

the collective. Yeah, from fanatical fics kind of started the collective. And so then have we ever joined booth and then we'll have all our information for the podcast and like a pamphlet, we're gonna have all supply some of our pins and things like that. That'll be for sale and stuff like that.

See max for some exclusive merch.

So that should be fun.

What are you like you were hugger? Can Peter come up and hook you will? Not really you're not big on the body contact? Yeah, yeah,

I'll probably a masked up. But ya know, I'd totally

I would so

yeah, even if someone just comes up to me, and I'm like, I don't know who you are. But Hi. And then after the fact. Tell me who the heck you are. Yeah, I don't know. So

no, for future reference, if I'm ever at a con and I do intend to be. If you see me and you want to hug me, it's totally fine. I'm a massive hugger. And the only the danger is that I may not let you go. I'm a little bit of a gremlin boat. Oh, yeah. I enjoy it. It's a good time. Yeah. finos Oh, man.

All right. Well, that was a lot of fun. That was great. I still now I want to get some fan art drawn of gospel Lily and serious and painting each other.

Yes, please. Think of stones with painting nails. Yeah.

Oh, gosh, I love that so much. So yeah, so as for next time, we got no idea. So let us know. Like Nathan said at the beginning of the show. We're always open to requests for things you want to hear us. You know, talk about things like that. So yeah, I'm really excited. Yeah, and oh, oh. And then as of just as an add on for those that are Patreon subscribers. We will I think by the beginning of July, which should be now Patreon will be dropping a drooping episode, because we have mentioned drooping in our last dreary episode. And we decided hey, we need we. We joked about we need to do an episode. Well, we did an episode right afterwards. We did it. And so we

did that thing. Yeah, we followed through on an impulse we had Yay.

So but that will be a bonus episode on Patreon. So definitely go and check that out. That'll be a lot of fun, so you get some more slashed.

As if you needed more of it. In fact, like most of our bonus episodes are probably going to be slashed from now on if we want to. We want the like main feed to be more more balanced divers. Yeah, yeah, divers is a good word. Yeah, I like that. Non slash normative? Yes. But anyway, yes, please. Look out for that drooping goodness. That's gonna be good fun. We really enjoyed doing it. Surprise, surprise. And we will see you in the next one. Bye.