Hello, and welcome to another episode of Coffey and Code. I'm excited to have a very special guest on the show with me today, Mr. Tanner Smith. Tinder is very well rounded and very fascinated. He has his own business. He has a great story about going from musician to software engineer. And I'm so excited to have him on the show today. So without further ado, welcome to coffee and code. Mr. Tanner Smith. Thank you for having me here. Can I call you Mr. Smith? Sure. Yeah, I just like the matrix. Yeah. I like that. I like that. Um, Tina, tell us a little bit more about yourself. So let's see, I am a classically trained guitarist. I was in a Scot punk band.
I graduated from the music business degree from Southern Nazarene University here in Bethany. And now I'm software engineer. It's funny how it happens when you graduate with the music business degree and there are no jobs in the field. So then you find a way to make money.
Yes, you may you forge your own path. But at the same time, you didn't really know what really knew where we were going to be. We were in college, right and like figuring out what our plan is. So it's amazing that you've like kind of found what your passion is, and found a way to intersect those into two areas. So bravo to you, because that's a lot of hard work.
It was a journey for sure. A lot of it started in sales, where I was like working for startups in Buffalo, New York, when I moved up there. I actually wanted to be a composer for video games. So I took a video game composition course at OCU. Because that was so much fun. It was so much fun. I learned so much chance Thomas, he wrote like music for King Kong and Lord of the Rings Online. He was a great professor of that course. And I actually applied the in order to take that course I had to apply to OCU to get in after I graduate. So I graduated SNU. And I was like, right back in school because I went OCU. And then you know, took this course and he ended up having a His person he taught was actually the lead audio director at Ubisoft Toronto. Wow. So it was like a perfect. I was like, Yeah, I'm planning on going to Toronto, he's like, Well, I'll connect you with rich and yet over at Ubisoft. So I actually got to meet him and go up there. And unfortunately, due to like the nature of my visa wasn't actually able to work for them. But I did get a lot of valuable experience kind of got connected up there. But yeah, moving down to Buffalo after my visa expired, I got involved in some software startups and realized, you know, all the mistakes that we're making them, like, why, like, how are these people getting so much funding? Why are they doing all these things like if they're making these basic mistakes? And I was like, Well, I went from sales, software sales. I was like, I could do this. So that's kind of where I got into that's my first start into thinking about like software and finding a CTO kind of all that stuff. So we can get into that. But that's just yeah, the the whole journey of it. It's just a wild ride.
So I love that because it's so exciting to hear you talk about that, because I can imagine it was probably a whirlwind all at once going from like the kind of predictable calm ish music industry and we classical, yeah, trained. Guitarist, it's very different. It's a different pace for sure. Yeah. So I'm curious what was like one of the most interesting things that you kind of gleaned from that whole whirlwind?
Um, well, I mean, everything is not what it seems, you know, you think that there's a lot of jobs in the music industry, because you see people making money in music, it's like, well, these, these people have been in the positions that they're in for decades, potentially. And they're not wanting to leave, you know, so it's kind of an industry that's dominated by a lot of lifers, essentially. And when you try to push your way in, it's either through favors or through some sort of like, weird, roundabout way. There's no direct access, right? You can go live in Nashville for 10 years, I guess, and make your way in that scene and, and do all the things with all the people who knows somebody and network your way into it. But you're still making pennies compared to what the people to compare to where you feel like you what you got your degree for, you know, being working for a record label or doing something like a classic, that classic move. There's not a lot of jobs and record labels, you know, with the the invention of streaming services, and I mean, a really, ideally, it'd be great to go work at Spotify. Yeah. All the way. I think they're in Sweden. It's like, well, not everybody can just pack up. Right? Yeah. So You know, just a lot of we like to think that we know it all. Based on the knowledge, you know, the college know it all. Everybody hears that term thrown around, it is kind of true. I mean, you graduate, you're like, oh, I can go get a degree, I can go get a job. And you kind of get into the reality of things. And you're, you're kind of stuck. So I was kind of, I think that's probably the biggest thing is just realizing that you really don't know anything. So how about especially about the music industry? Wow. So
that's pretty powerful. I would consider that a mic drop statement. Because you can apply that to life just like do we really know
everything true? I was just having a conversation about this with somebody else today. So yeah, we truly don't know everything. Yeah, we don't have anything. Really. I mean, yeah, at the end of the day, all we know is that we don't know anything.
Exactly, exactly. And there's some comfort in that. Yes. 100% 100%.
Well, sooner. So with all of this journey, from music to software development, and kind of bridging the gap there. What about your morning routine? I love asking guests about their morning routine. So in two minutes or less, can you tell us a little bit about yours? And what sets you up for success?
Yeah, so i i recently, funny enough, got into listening to more podcasts and kind of got involved with the Andrew Huberman podcasts, rate pod, fantastic information. And when I got my first Yes, ScienceBase got my first start into kind of the thought of keto intermittent fasting, I'd heard about these things. never really tried them. So I started trying them and they're fantastic. I mean, a lot of people will debunk them, a lot of people will do maybe say one thing, there's, the science is not totally 100% on either side, you know, they're still doing a lot of research on long term effects. Obviously, you're not supposed to do keto, for a long amount of time, or intermittent fasting for a long amount of time. It's kind of more of like a quick thing, but I haven't been recently doing that. So um, you know, my, my morning routine is drinking a cup of lemon water, you know. And maybe taking a few vitamins doing some, some stretches. Sometimes it is a little bit of yoga in the morning, just to get you know, all of the kinks out when you wake up. Because we are most tense and kind of, yeah, stiff in the morning, and sometimes doing a meditation. You know, I'll do the Insight Timer app, which is really great. A lot of great guided meditations on there. Sometimes I'll just sit with my thoughts for five minutes. But yeah, I've also been doing a lot of cycling in the morning. I'm go to this wonderful community called cycle society here in the city. And they're fantastic. They 530 In the morning, wake up, go do that. It's right across the street from me. So it's perfect, perfect location. And it just it's a great start to get the endorphins going for the day. Right after meditation or something. So yeah, that's yeah. And then I go to work. So wow,
that's amazing. You do a lot before you even start work for the day. But I'm sure that sets a good tone for how you show up. Yeah, in the day and throughout the day, as well.
It keeps you Yeah, you know, that five, five about the two o'clock crash that usually get after lunch or something. You don't really get that when you start the day with endorphins, or you know, it's like they go into taking a cold shower. You're like awake for the entire day.
So yeah, yeah, cold showers are great. And about the entry of Huber bang podcast, I recently learned from his podcast to wait an hour from when you wake up to consume caffeine. Yes. Because you want to let your adenosine clear out your cortisol, instead of caffeine clearing it out. And I was like,
what? Yeah, yeah, yes. Yeah, I used to, I used to wake up and just drink a cup of coffee, you know, try to get the and yeah, that lemon water is perfect to start the metabolism guide right after sleeping. And then again, the intermittent fasting. I don't eat until about 2pm. So you know, I'll go to my last meal is by the end of like seven o'clock PM. So I'm going like 16 hours. That's usually maybe an 18 hour fast, depending on how far I can push it. Yeah. But that's great, because then you don't have that crash. You don't feel the grogginess. I mean, I've lost a lot of I mean, I've lost a lot of fat. So we go, yeah, I mean, it's great. You're working out, you're doing things but you're also losing fat and you're able to eat the things that you want to eat because you're kind of limiting the amount of, you know, spikes that you have.
So, yeah, that's overall just good for your health. Yes. Well, I'm curious, going back to your musicianship roots and your time as a software developer, you seem like to have cultivated all of your experiences into like where you are right now. So let's talk about your company fan. wave.io. So yeah, talk to us about what it is, and what it does. Okay. And then we can go into how you got there.
So, the vision the main vision for fan wave is to reshape the the live entertainment industry. So that includes comedians, musicians, anything that is live entertainment, we really want to focus on all sides of it. So for fans for for artists, and for the venue's themselves, the way that great shows are built is through data driven, data driven management, right, data driven approach to booking. And usually what venues will do is they'll maybe they'll maybe pick the flavor of the month, or they will hear from somebody that heard from somebody that a great band is, you know, this person's band out of their garage, and they'd be a great fit for this show that's coming through, right. So it's usually like, that's kind of how you hear the term like big break. You know, they had their big break plan with so and so right at the criterion or at the tower, pay comes in, or whatever. Are, the goal with this is to not only provide an incentive for fans to go out more, and kind of help them rank up at their favorite venues, but also provide the data to bands and venues so that they're able to make better decisions on where they book. So for a band, that'd be seeing their data over time saying, Okay, we had an average crowd draw of maybe five. And when we first started, now we have an average crowd drove like 3040. So they know they're doing the right thing, right? For bid for venues, they get to see that literary early on, and they see, okay, this band has been doing a great job, they've been playing all these shows, they've been promoting themselves, they've been doing them and going the extra mile is take a shot at them, right. And they also know that based off of their crowd draw, they're probably going to bring in a few people. So it's less of a risk for venues. So the venue makes more money, the band gets more publicity. And the fan has a better show. So it's kind of a kind of touches on all angles. So that was the main vision. And that came from me being in my own Scot punk band, seeing how hard it is to book shows, and what the word of mouth is. We had a really great show that we put together and it was through through creativity. We actually played with Sublime with Rome and dirty heads and Bowling for Soup. And they came through here at Zoo amphitheater. Cool. And it was during the time of Facebook when everybody was like looking at your Facebook likes. Well, we had this ingenious plan. Okay, we're gonna make a Facebook page called sunnyside up was that was the band name to play with Sublime with Rome. And just pay for likes. So we paid for like a week's worth of likes for like, I don't know, like 10 bucks or something. Yeah, we had 5000 likes on there. And we we showed it to the concert promoter. Because they don't do enough. They didn't do any research. They didn't they don't. They just looked at the lights. They looked at number. They're like, Oh, well, a bunch of people really want you to play. So we literally we went from playing a show in front of 6000 people to go into bad grannies the next night and playing in front of 50. Or you see. So very humbling experience. But it was like yeah, we got the show. And it's like, Hey, you didn't do like, and I'm sure a bunch of people. If there are any of those bands that we be in a you know, we beat you in ingenuity. You could have done the same thing we think smarter. Exactly. So yeah, it was a great, it was a great show. We had a lot of fun. We have a live album on Bandcamp from it sounds terrible, because we're all nervous. It's great. I mean, it was a really fun experience. And that was like the highlight of my musical career. So
what a fun story. Yeah, that is amazing. Yeah. I'm glad that you mentioned that. It's funny. You're not the only one I was listening to an interview with Molly Shannon recently. And she did something similar to get her first role on as a as a like side character on Twin Peaks. Okay. And David Lynch world and I was like, what, but hearing that I was thinking, you know, it is about thinking smarter, not harder. Yeah. If everyone is approaching competition on the same plane of existence, and where's your innovation,
right? Absolutely. No. And that's and that's that, I mean that. That segues perfectly in entrepreneurship, right, like, there's this guy. I just I just watched this quick little short on a guy who got tired of you know, these pills coming in for, like the sex pills, right? They help you whatever. do perform better, right? Now there's this guy who turned that compound from the pill into a chocolate. Well, so it's like you share it with your partner. And it's like a whole thing where you don't have to feel like, you don't have to feel like, weirded out by the pill or like anything yet or shamed each time chocolate together. So it's like, you get the same feeling you have the same effect, but it's in chocolate form. So it's like, got smarter, right? It's the same, it's the same product. It's just, it's a different presentation. Yeah. And it's, um, I mean, that is the that is entrepreneurship, solving a problem that you find exists and solving it in a, I guess, an easy way. So
nice. Yeah. That's amazing. Thank you for sharing that. Absolutely. And I'm very curious to hear with learning software engineering. Can you tell us more about like, how you dipped your toe into that world? Because that seems like quite the leap to go from musician to software. I mean, like, did you have friends that were in this space? Talk to us about that journey?
Yeah. So I really, what it came down to was when I was starting, so when I was in Buffalo, I met and worked in a an amazing space for a bunch of different startups. It was essentially the, I think it's called the Innovation Center. Actually. It was right next to a nice little like hospital area. Anyway, a lot of medical startups, a lot of different startups. Were there, I worked first for a company called ACV Auctions. And being there, and going to work there every day, I started networking with people going around this, you know, the the area and met with a guy named Scott from a company called kangaroo time. And they had recently won like some of the money from the 43 North competition. So they were relatively new. They were from, they're out of California. Now they have an office in Australia. I mean, he's like one of my mentors. He suggested I got an A, I get involved in this thing called the founders Institute, which is actually based out of California, and they have one in Buffalo. And that was the first year and so I joined it. And it basically goes from, you know, incorporation all the way to like realization of a product, right? So then we pitch at the end, and we're pitching every single week. And so I was like, wow, I could really be an entrepreneur, and I couldn't find a CTO. So I was like, Well, how do I find a CTO? Well, that's the hardest part, right? You have a business person who's looking for a CTO, maybe you just network and you try to find somebody and you do like an interview process. And it was like, man, nobody is as passionate about this idea as I am. So it's like, okay, thankfully, I had the foresight to just be like, Okay, well, I'm gonna leave buffalo, I'm gonna come back to Oklahoma City. And that was right before COVID happened that happened in 2019. So I came back in July of 2019. And I have all this experience all this high from being an entrepreneur, and like kind of focusing on what was called bands to watch at the time, that was the name of my company. I came back and I started looking, I got involved in the tech community, talk to a few people started, just branching out and telling as many people as I could about this idea. And still no bike. So I was like, Okay, well, I'm not a musician. I'm working in the restaurant industry, right? I just, I came back, and I just got a job in bartending and surveying. And I'm like, I'm gonna do something. So it was either between it, which I've done a lot of in my time, or do some software engineering bootcamp. And I was like, well, it would be certifications, software, boot camp would be a little longer, but it would be it probably more up my alley, because I like to create, I like to build and solve problems, which is really what kind of led me to it. I was like, okay, my buddy, who I've known for 25 years, had just graduated from this program, or was in like the middle almost about to graduate. He's like, man, you should really do this. So he kind of referred me I got a discount. I started this thing through coding dojo. It was a 16 week program, I graduated with a black belt, which is like the highest, because you like finish your exams. Amazing. Thank you. And, yeah, I got to, you know, finish that and really just love the problem solving aspect of it. And then kind of just started ripping away at a portfolio, talking to a few people talking to a few of my friends who are software engineers. And, yeah, kind of the rest is history. I mean, it really it went from looking for a CTO to wanting to get into software because I knew that I could potentially build my product if I needed to. And then I realized, you know, after finishing you're like, Okay, well, this is a big ask, you know, you really have to dedicate a lot of time to it per weekend, per night, whatever you want to do. And I'm like, Well, now I need a team. And that's started where That's kind of where I started reaching out to tech Lahoma. And, you know, reaching out to people for free resources, which is where it led me to my designer, Shelby, she's great. She put together this great design that we were able to build and react and do a whole MVP process where we launched it for. We basically from from start to finish from last January to April. We built it in four months. We'll get together at Prairie prairie artisan ales and have like a weekly meeting and just kind of hash out some things. And yeah, shout out to Zack Mays and sage cross for their help on that and also count Corbin. Everybody worked really hard on it. And we got it launched and everybody really loved it. We had a lot of users. I think we peaked. I think we peaked close to like, 3000. By the end of it. Yeah. Wow. That's incredible. Not weekly. But yeah, I mean, but it was great. It was a great and I was like, This is what I need to be doing. And now and then I took it down, right? Because I was the wizard behind the curtain I was doing, I was manually putting in the events, I was going to every single event, every single venue every single week. And I like backloaded it for like six months. And then I would try to do that every month, every week. But it was just too much for one person. So then we built it out. It's currently offline, I put the the landing page back up. But yeah, essentially, we're in the process of rebuilding. And right now we're building actually without code. So we're building a in a no code solution, low code, no code, where it when I hear a suggestion from maybe an artist or a venue or something, I'll be able to quickly iterate and not have to worry about the code.
Wow, that's a huge unlock. Yes.
So that was a huge takeaway from from the MVP version is like, Okay, we need to build it in a way that's sustainable and scalable, but also a way that when I hear about a feature, we don't spend weeks or months building out this feature just for it to fail or just for somebody not use it kind of thing. It'll be kind of like a separate build sort of thing. So
I like that. That's, that's really cool. Because I see a lot of things going towards like a low code, no code format, because it's easier to kind of bridge those gaps and the people that are involved in the decision making on a project. But I also like, went in and kind of immersed myself within the fan wave. And like just ideating on the concept of it. And my best friend and I recently went to a concert. And I was thinking like, this is an amazing experience to be able to interact in a different way. Like you're no longer behind the ticket master to engage with your artists like you love like, that was such a huge piece that I really enjoyed why I choose the streaming apps that I do, so I can connect with those artists. So I really love your concept. And like where it's going, because I think that's what we need. We need these startups with more innovative ideas, honestly, to not honestly compete. There's no competing with Ticketmaster, right? Yeah. But like, if you want to have authentic music experiences, you got to think outside the box. And I like doing
that. Thank you. Yeah, that's really an absolutely, Ticketmaster is a pain in the ass. I mean, it is. them and even Eventbrite. I mean, these big companies that have tried to just pull a monopoly on this, if you had one, stop shop for your local guidebook to the music scene in any city or at, right, it'd be great. And then if you can interact with those venues, like, say, you go there, you buy like, $100, with the drinks, you earn all those points towards that venue, then you show up, maybe a year later, those points are saved, and you're like this, like, the silver level or gold level, you know, fan, you have access to maybe extra tickets or whatever, you know, just like little incentives, maybe half off drinks, you know, I don't know just all these little things that would help fans be able to experience the music scene in a more like VIP kind of way. So, absolutely.
It's funny that you mentioned that in terms of knowing the what the websites are. Because my approach whenever I go to a new place, I don't even get on the internet. I go look at the posters around town. Yeah, I go walk to the coffee shops where some library just kind of pay attention to what's out in the lobby, and nine times out of 10, you're you'll find something. Yeah, it'll lead you to something else. And you can start pulling a thread. But it's interesting that we're in 2023. And we still don't have something like what Finn wave is, yeah,
nothing comprehensive. Yeah, it started as a comprehensive music calendar. And that was the MVP. And that took off. And now we're like, we're, we're building the real thing. And it's not, maybe it's not an app that you download, but it's going to be an app that functions very similarly. So it's a web app.
That makes it more are accessible. Yes, yes. Well, I'm curious what resources do you have for those listening who wants to learn more about what you're up to, whether it's fan wave or your musical explorations or meditation?
I'm inside out from editor like Insight Timer for meditations. Any type of online learning resources like YouTube Udemy pleural space, or Pluralsight, I think it's what's called a pro site.
That's a really good one.
All those great, I mean, there's so much information out there. And I mean, it's just, it's so accessible. I mean, $12 for like a 18 hour course. But you can't tell me you don't have 12 hours, you're spending 12 hours at the at the bar, right, like on a drug plan and the discipline Exactly. As far I mean, one of the I think one of the best things I can say, I'm a huge I mean, obviously, I told you I cycle but I'm a huge proponent of just like, eating healthy like prioritizing healthy foods, prioritizing sleep, hydration, and fitness in general doing something like get your body moving. You know, as a software engineer, I've noticed that my body is moving way less because I'm sitting down all the time, or even standing desks where I'm standing. Walk around, get some air, get some fresh air, change the scenery, and it's the best thing you do for mental health. As far as fan wave goes, we do have an Instagram, it's fan wave.io. I think it's fan wave IO on Twitter. Recently Deleted my Twitter because I completely
understand Yeah, I used to Yeah.
Yeah, so sad. Yeah. Facebook, as well. And then our website, which is www dot Phan wave FANW A v e.io. And it'll give you an idea of kind of the vision that I just explained. And you'll be able to sign up for our newsletter, which will tell you when our when our new app is coming out. So yeah, I mean, I think that's, that's the biggest thing, fitness, fitness in general, it will help you so much in your life. I mean, even if you're not looking to be a bodybuilder, just getting a few 1000 extra steps per day will help you tremendously. And just focused prioritizing healthy foods. Human optimization, human optimization. Yeah, absolutely.
100% it branches into every other area of your life before you know it. You're doing cool stuff.
Yeah, you have more energy. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we're like, had I not got the right amount of sleep? Had I not started the right, you know, at the right time, I would not be here right now. So
absolutely. Well, those are those are good tips. And I'll be sure to link, everything you mentioned in the show notes as well. Perfect. And kind of before we land this plane, which has been a great conversation, by the way. So thank you for those. Yeah. Do you have any parting words for, let's say, an entrepreneur out there? Who is wanting to potentially go down the same path that you did?
Yes, don't listen, okay. So two things. Don't listen to anybody who you don't respect. You'll have they, if you don't have, so, if you have haters, you're doing something, right. Because there's this crab in the bucket mentality of like, if you're trying to get out, nobody wants you to get out, and they'll try to keep pulling you down by telling you, they're not gonna make it or you're not going to do, you're not going to do what you want to do. Don't listen to them, keep your blinders on and stay focused. The other thing I would say is a lot of people have this whole weird, like attachment to NDAs. If you're an entrepreneur, the best thing you can do is tell people about your idea. Because people have 1000s of ideas. Ideas are 1% of it, execution is 99% of it like you, everybody in their dog has an idea that's going to be the next Facebook or the next Google. It's about what you do with that idea and execute and how you execute. That really matters. The only time that anybody's really gonna steal your idea is if you're already far along. And by that time, you already have the advantage anyway, so really comes down to telling as many people about your idea as possible, and get getting them to break it apart. Because there's a lot of things that you might have not thought about. I've been working on this for six years. And we're just now to like MVPs. And that's not because it's been. That's not because I've been lazy or things have been slow. It's because building a business takes time, especially a business that is this big. And making sure that you have all your ducks in a row is super crucial to success and you know it and a lot of it is just searching for the right person to work with you on it. Especially if you're low on resources. says money time, energy, you name it. I mean, they're, I think those are the two biggest, those are the two biggest takeaways I can give.
I like that those are very tangible. And something that I think people forget is in their control. Sometimes. We are the the leaders have our own path, right, we can choose what we want to do. So this was really great tips. Thank you, Tanner. Absolutely. Well, this has been an awesome conversation, and I'm looking forward to the next iteration of fan wave. I'll be sure to link the newsletter in the show notes people can sign up. But thank you so much for coming on coffee and code today. Tanner, I'm glad we could finally make it happen.
It has been an honor to be invited and be finally here after a year of of planning and getting it all getting it all set up. I know you've been busy. I've been busy. So yeah, I'm really excited to have been here and this was Yeah, fantastic conversation. So thank you, Ashley. Thank you