Care of Magical Shippers Podcast Episode 31 - Wolfstarbucks, Please! with Geoff (Remus Lupin/Sirius Black/James Potter)

1:31AM Jun 27, 2022

Speakers:

Care of Magical Shippers Podcast

Megs

Keywords:

james

remus

talk

thought

characters

ship

fanfiction

point

feel

good

started

part

kissing

put

long

literally

absolutely

friends

nice

spin

Hey there listener Fancy seeing you here. Look, sometimes due to the things we discuss on the pod, it might contain potentially triggering content. But the good news is you can always review the episode description for a full list of the warnings applicable to this episode. Oh, and just so you know, this episode is rated are really filthy. It includes adult themes and explicit content. So if you're an adult, buckle up, Gird your loins and prepare to flood the basement because we are going down with these chips.

Ship space, let's go to ship big. I don't care if I get my bearings. Well, then you can hit the bricks. This is my own seat down with this ship

Welcome back to Care of Magical shippers podcast, a Harry Potter ship culture Podcast. I'm Meg's.

And I am Nathan.

And we are so excited because we have a guest this week. They came to us super excited about the ship. And I couldn't say no. So I'm happy to introduce Jeff, who actually is the person who wrote thick for the speech episode. So if you remember the speech episode and what puff cast had read for us that was written by them. And they're involved in a lot of other fun phantom things. If you want to talk about what you're what you're up to.

Well, my goodness, what an introduction. I mean, where do I start? Once I've started, how do I stop? That's the real question.

I mean, you know, we can't say by like, it's literally just doesn't happen.

We literally that's the thing we cannot do. We're just like, dead silence. That's it?

Well, you can say bye as long as it's spelled b i mRNA.

Oh, yeah. That's how we're transcripting it from now on just

There you go. So as you say, I've evolved in quite a few things. I've Giuliana and Melanie who were here on that same speech episode from puff cast have been dear friends of mine for such a long time. We were all on speak beastie together, which is Muggle nets, Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them podcast since them. Oh, yeah, that's actually um, we were all on it. And I can't recall if I knew that. And then I found puff cast. Or if I started listening to puff cast, I don't remember what order it was. All I know is that's how Giuliana and I became connected to each other is our mutual friend Eric Skell was a guest on their show. I sent them an email. And my response to the email was a Facebook message asking if I would give over my personal address so that she could send me stickers. Yes,

that is literally do

that is it is very Giuliana. It's it's wonderful. It's just because she would never for anybody thinking that this sounds like a very uncomfortable experience. For some people. I guess it might be but Giuliana is the last person who would do anything hurtful or inappropriate. Absolutely lovely. Lovely. love her to pieces. But we've become friends. And now we have got our own pot called into the fold where we are going chapter by chapter through the grace of verse novels. My favorite part of that is probably that I have read these books back to front many times she has read those books once through. But as we talk about these things, we're trying and struggling to remember that we started this with the idea of Oh, somebody might be listening who hasn't read past what we're talking about in this episode. So we should not reference things that haven't happened yet. beutler's. Yeah, yeah, I think we both struggle with that. We do that. Gosh, what where do I start? Because I'll just tell you this during the pandemic, you know, the one the one Oh, that one? Yeah, you know, the between the two that have happened in our lifetime the one more recently

Oh, yes, I'm familiar with

a web so I during the head debbik What happened was I couldn't do any of the things that I would normally do. And so I start at some point making this list of all these things in fandoms in general that I haven't engaged in like writing fanfiction, or writing film music, which turns into wizard rock and I think why haven't I tried these things? These things seem like fun and the answer was always I just haven't given it a shot yet. Yeah, and with most of them I found that once I started giving it a shot something really good has actually come from it.

Yes. Oh, I couldn't agree more. I mean, I that's the same thing. I found. I yeah, I found fandom just before ever Anything you know happened and things were shut down, you couldn't do anything. And I'm just it's the best thing that could have happened when you're stuck at home and whatnot. And now look at what we're doing now. I mean, we've, we're going over a year, we're going into our second year of doing this podcast, and it's just absolutely insane

is mental. I still cannot wrap my head around this. I mean, I know we've talked about it a lot. And it should have sunk in by now where it hasn't. And I mean, initially when the when the pandemic stuff started and everything started getting locked down, having the things like discord communities where, you know, you could actually still have some semblance of human interaction was life saving to me was actually the thing that kept me going. So So now to have this blossom out of that, and to have the opportunity to chat to awesome people like you is incredible to me. I'm so excited to dive into today's episode. Did you want to talk about who we're going to be shipping today?

Okay, so we are talking today about wolf Starbucks, which is so much fun to say. Isn't it fun to say that? Yes, it's just it's a fun word. And I will admit that everything else about me there's a story hear nothing about doesn't have a story. So buckle up for that. So Meg's, my dear, I asked you for a list of chips because I wrote a Christmas song for a wizard rock compilation album, and then you very generously, I didn't know you were doing this. You put it on your feed listeners go back through your feed, they will find the 12 days of shipments. Yes. And as I'm looking at all these ships, I'm thinking okay, I need to pick out ones that I would ship myself that have intriguing names. And then the struggle was do i j say the names of the characters? Do I say the ship name? And I went back and forth. I think I kept it about even on both sides. But when I got to both Starbucks I said, Okay, this name has all of the ring, and all of the impact of that wonderful five golden rings. That moment in the song. Yes, it was so perfect, but what everybody looks for. So I turned that into wolf Starbucks, please. Like that. And then I'm thinking I saw the name. I used the name, and then I start thinking more about the ship itself between a big wolf Starbucks, so it's Remus Lupin, James Potter, and serious black. Not necessarily I'm trying. I'm going through my mind, Wolf. Okay, that's really miss star. Okay, that's serious. That doesn't matter. I got all the names in there. Yeah, they are there. And I'm thinking, this is of all the chips that I know that I would ship myself. This is one of the only poly chips that I hear that much about, you guys might know a little bit better than I do. But I feel like of all the poly chips that probably exist out there. This is the one that I hear mentioned every now and then and the other is almost at least from where I'm standing don't really get mentioned that much at all. And it kind of makes sense if you think about it, because it's this trio of lovable scabs and most of their adventures were when they were about that age, when you would be experimenting with various things.

Yes, indeed continue.

Okay, good. Okay, fine, but I'll just bring it back to my own personal experience.

Max, do you want to talk about some of the things you experimented with? Because I mean, I could go down a rabbit hole.

I don't want to deprive our lovely guest a better opportunity to enlighten our listeners with what I'm sure will be a absolutely coruscating.

wonderful series of stories even and his words.

So on the topic of our ship, I'm so excited because I don't know if you know, Jeff, but awhile ago we were supposed to do to Wolfstar themed episodes. We did we did those. But the thing is, while we focused a lot on like the individual characters and who they were as people, we didn't really focus on the ship very much because what happened was I got so excited that I went off on a massive, long tangent, and then we never actually talked about the two of them together. So this is my chance. Yeah, I'm seizing my opportunity to put things right and I'm going to do that by sandwiching James in the middle of them Okay, so I have to tell you something.

I think it was before we hit record I mentioned To the two of you that I don't write down everything word for word that I need to say. But I do bullet point some things I don't want to forget. I did write a bullet point in here and I will now read that for you word for word. Nathan, you've just answered this for me. Who is in the middle of the sandwich wow, I

mean, I, I think it depends on where they're at in life as well. I don't think they I don't think they would settle for not being adventurous with each other. So I think at various times, they'd all be in the middle of that sandwich is my had come in for this, but maybe, I don't know. Am I jumping into the sexy stuff too quickly? Who am I kidding? We're 14 minutes in? Of course, it's not too fast.

I don't think so know if it's what you want to talk about talking about it. Because I thought actually, if you think about things like that, especially as you surround yourself with people within the queer community, you hear all different terms thrown out. You hear people talk about their preferences, you know, you hear people say, if their tops or bottoms or verse, or what are they? And then when you talk about character, especially in fanfictions in this kind of arena, you start to wonder things like that about them too. So of course with people like James, Sirius and Remus, who have all such strong personalities, but in different ways you can't help but wonder, is one of them. A top is one of them strictly a bottom is one of them versatile, can two of them be the same? I picture James in the middle of the sandwich just because I feel like serious is a top for sure. He's got that top energy.

Yeah, me. Does he just radiate top energy. Yeah.

Even if like maybe maybe if it's a special occasion and he and Remus he'll have a moment alone together and it's maybe if it's Remus, his birthday, he's like, I've got something I'd like to try out on you. Boy, let's go for it. But not like it's not going to be at every day thing. But Ramis to me. I mean, he's he's a soft boy. He's he's like I put your little Remus Lupin is like that little cinnamon roll boy. Like he's definitely the CMA in the in the Yeah, this was a BL relationship. He's the semi. I believe I've got that right. cemaes the smaller

I know the term but I could not verify which I should be able to verify but

I literally just I literally just heard these terms in a in a Yeah, way that I was watching with my wife. I should know. Okay, if I'm wrong, I'm just gonna use the terms in plain English. He's the bottom because he is he's very quiet. He's very shy. He's just going to just lie there and want to connect with his partner. He's not I'm did not just lie there. He's gonna probably get into it.

Oh, well. I also think it's sometimes the quiet ones you have to watch out for. And I definitely think if Remus bottoms he's going to be a power bottom like he's definitely going to want to take charge from the from the pillow up. Whoa,

oh my god, you guys. My wife is hearing me for the other. She just texted me semi is the top. Thanks, holiday.

Nice. This relationship sounds incredible. Can I just say,

out of all the relationships that I am a fan of I'm the biggest fan of the relationship that my wife and I have with each other. Let's get that right.

Incredible. If I end up with somebody that sends me those sorts of texts, I'll know that I've hit the jackpot, right?

Oh, it's wonderful. Because normally I'm in here I'm analyzing chapters from books that we've read. Or we're talking about relationships between characters in different things, or I'm doing I've do so many of these in a year now. And a lot of times, it's usually me trying not to be too loud, while my wife is still sleeping in the other room. But I mean, now I've got a topic that she could actually probably, you know, offer some input on so yeah, she could text me from the other room, but it's

very nice. Next time, she'll have to come on the pod.

Absolutely, we should do that.

Yeah, so for me Well, I think I'm just kind of to circle back a little bit is you mentioned that it being one of the more popular poly ships that you kind of come across on the regular I feel like part of it is like one we have marauders era with very few characters to play with like you think of it that way and then when it comes down to even like Wolfstar Fick or things like that, it's like Peter often gets the shit end of the stick. Like if you think about it, like he's often like, either not written or like loosely in the background or whatever. So as far as like, oh, the marauders together except Peter you know what I mean? Like it's just kind of and

Peter was there

yes

we got like, Schuyler Sisters he's not even Peggy

he used the turntable device

now we're doing this we're going here this is where we are Everybody get ready serious is definitely Angelica James is in law us and Remus is and Peggy Oh fan artists of the world lend me your energy and write the marauders as the Schuyler sisters and then just kind of make Peter like I somebody who was also there. Oh, you know what? Make Peter Aaron Bursar?

Oh, that's actually a really good one. That's a really good one.

Yes. I love that. I love that idea. Yes, please someone go and write that and send it to us. That'd be incredible. Not that you listened to any of my other suggestions. But you know what? I am desperately clinging to my last bit of self respect to be like someone else will listen to me because this idea is incredible. And it's come from Jeff. It's not it's not a Nathan sponsored idea. So this already

Yeah. So maybe someone will care.

Exactly what you know, tell you what, why don't we say that? Jeff wrote the idea. But Nathan ghost wrote the idea. There we go.

Yes. I mean, I definitely fit the profile of someone who is very barely involved with anything and can just float in a corner seamlessly. So that will that will absolutely ring true. Definitely know that. Au is is definitely something that I need. And just, well, any more Hamilton stuff in my life, in general will not be a bad thing. I cannot say enough good things about that musical. But if we keep on this topic, I am going to be a dangerously close to singing as King George and I can't do that, too. I just can't do that. So

I'll do it. I have pulled that song out at karaoke night. Now I'm not afraid to do it again.

Nice. I got asked once what character I would love to play the the musical. And it's that right there. Not only because he has 10 minutes of stage time, but also those 10 minutes are easily the highlight of the whole thing.

That's true. That's true. All right, back to the ship, because we're not, we're not gonna have another Wolfstar times to

Wolfstar bucks. Please.

Look, this isn't this is not my fault. Okay. I'm just very excited to have such a dynamic guest on with those. And you know, if they want to talk Hamilton, who am I to stop them? So I'm just so excited. Anyway,

you can try but it doesn't work with my uncle's house. Why should I work here?

Exactly. We're just embracing the chaos at this point. Yeah. Back to our back to our threesome. Yeah, we were with, like, I still think of them as fairly malleable and interchangeable in terms of position. But I think maybe that's a little bit of bias coming at this, from my point of view, because I think of you know, they're on a magi at the same time. So they're so we already know that they're shapeshifters. So they used to being more than one thing for at least part of the time. And so I maybe I'm reading that actually into their characters. But obviously, I mean, like you were saying, I think they're a popular ship. Because it's not very, it's not a big leap for us to see that. They're really close. They've grown up through war, through real adversity, and through personal hardship. And whenever, you know, that sort of galvanizes you you do grow to close together to people, and I can really see this becoming a thing. Now, I suppose there will be some listeners, you know, amongst our jolly troops that say, Yeah, but you know, you talk about how serious and Remus are cannon so how can James fit in there, but

I sorry, I should not have interrupted just as an involuntary that was. That's where I was involuntary spasm because you said How does James fit in here and I'm like

this and you do not need to apologize for any ad hoc interjections you want to make and make as many of them as you want, like, because I have a tendency to ramble unless somebody stops me. And it's probably good that we have a third person in here too. Chuck because makes us too nice to me. And she lets me waffle on for 20 minutes and then goes, Uh huh. I've no idea what you were saying. But anyway, I wanted

Well, isn't that interesting way to put it? It's good that we have a third person in here. And what are we here to talk about today? Pairing with a third person, isn't it? Yeah. When things work out? Yes,

exactly.

It's a triangle.

Yes. So for these guys, I definitely I'm thinking from the aspect of like, okay, I mean, I know you had mentioned kind of them, you know, having trials and tribulations and things like that. But also, it's like James did come was like the one that kind of came from what we can understand a very, like, positive, loving, you know, kind of entitled, The backgrounds. Like sometimes we can see him as like, cocky or kind or whatever we can, anything like that, then we have serious who's like the rebel who completely was like, I am not about anything that my parents are or his family stand for. And then we have remissed, who we know is like, He's just excited to have friends that care, you know, like that found out he's a werewolf and don't care. Like they were still there for him. And I think that that's absolutely wonderful for for them to kind of have found a kind of find something different that they needed, because maybe James needed an alternative point of view from his more like, stable pureblood existence versus, you know, like, it just who knows what his experience is, or what he thought and felt before meeting all of these boys. You know what I mean? So, yeah, good. Yeah. And, but I also it's, I can't help but think that it's like, if we're going like, Okay, we're going cannon, which is sad, because obviously people die, but, but I could see Lily being like, Hey, I know you love your friends. And I know you need them. So we're in an open relationship, and you have your boyfriend's, and then we're also married and it's, everything's great.

It's like, this isn't my thing. But it's clearly your thing. And I fell in love with you for who you are. So whatever there is between you and these other people, that's what you will have, and what you and I have, yes, something you'll never have with them. It can all exist and it's perfectly fine.

Exactly. I definitely. It's It was a long time ago, but I read a fics like that. And I was like, I was like, really? That's amazing. Like, you're awesome. Like she even she, like conspired with a friend Lily,

I feel like would be the most mature out of all these people. Yeah,

it's just a so yeah.

So I feel like Lily is at least emotionally mature enough to know that it's unrealistic to expect all things from one person, you know, and what better way to express that than by saying, you know, love is love. But not all love has to flow through me. You know, you can have other relationships. And I thought they're far too. Like, I don't want to say expect maybe experimental it's not the right word. But they're far too open minded. Anyway, to be pigeonholed into these easily definable heteronormative boxes. I've never seen, either James or Lily like that. Anyway, maybe Lily's off having fun with with other people as well. Who knows, but I love that I definitely think of all of them. Lily is obviously the most sort of emotionally attuned or self aware she's the Hermione in this situation, right?

So I look at the these three young men, and as they're starting to come of age and realize things about themselves. I mean, I can relate to that. I kind of look at Sirius, it I see if this has probably been established by other people before me that serious is the young man who realizes he's attracted to other young men, and he is unashamed of it. But it causes problems with his family, which goes along with what's going on in the canon books because he doesn't gel with the rest of his family's beliefs. That's what happens there. Whereas with Remus, he's worried that if people find out that they're going to judge him, but then he meets these friends who actually understand him quite a lot, and not only do they not judge him, but they embrace Him that also gels with the Canon because of what happens to Remus when he's a child in the books. Now, James is the one that I relate to the most not because of me, but because of people that I knew. I don't know if other people had a similar experience in high school, but this actually ended up happening to me a lot. One night, I was staying the night with a friend. He is straight. He is still straight, far as I know. But I don't know how often this happens. To other people, but we were spending the night together. And I guess he had some needs. And no one was available, but and he starts to wonder, is it different? And yes, he found out. That was my first experience with a nother person who had the same equipment as well. Yeah. Okay. I found it very enjoyable. I don't actually know how he found it. All I know is he did not ask me to do it again, again. And what was interesting was, as far as I know, he never told anybody and until years after high school, neither did I. And I never told this to anybody that would have known him. However, there were many times in high school where I was in that situation. I'm spending the night with a friend. He is straight. He's got needs. All that's available is me. So he decides this is a safe environment in which for me to explore this. And I was weird for me only because these guys weren't trading notes. People weren't writing things about me on the bathroom wall. Yeah, for a good time. Here's Jeff's AOL handle, because we were still using AOL handles back then. For all the kids listening to the episode, who don't know, AOL Instant Messenger is what we had before Facebook. And it was worse because you couldn't use the phone at the same time. Don't worry about it.

Yeah. Oh, do you remember dial up? Actually, it's depressing to talk in these terms, because I realized how old I am. But yeah, you could because you couldn't use the phone at the same time. You used to have to rush in when you could be on the internet, because you need to leave the phone line clear for your parents whenever they need those. So it was it was a whole big thing. And I mean, we didn't have AOL in Britain, but we used like MSN Messenger, and various various different things. Yeah, it was it was a time. I mean, I didn't personally have those experiences in high school, because I was a bit of a late bloomer and sort of existed in a in a, in a sexless bubble, I suppose is the best way to describe that were I just because I was going through other stuff. It I wasn't consciously aware that I had that side to myself until pretty late on so until I was like, in my last year of a levels, like just before I went off to uni, and then oh, boy, did I overcompensate. But that's a story.

Possible story from other time, yes. But anyway, I hearing those stories, I hear those stories all the time through my friends, and part of me is still mystified by it. Because like you say, it's not like people still have communal group chats for this sort of thing. But as far as I can gather, it does sort of regularly happen. And I, I'm well, I suppose, you know, we're in 2022. I'm still very confused by labels. I don't really understand why people insist on put in putting them on things still. But I mean,

yeah, yeah, he, he's, he's heard he's got a good point about labels, because it's a culture. I feel like a lot of people are moving towards. I don't like labels. I don't need labels, why does everything need a label, and yet, as the spectrum of gender, and sexuality and everything else gets broader, the list of labels gets longer not. Because you can't take the labels back. And that tells me that some people, not everybody need the labels, because to some people, labels help people to understand themselves, they take these things that they didn't know what they were, and if they can define them, if they can find other people who also meet a criteria that they feel like suits them, then that can be comforting. It's just that it's not required in order to engage with this part of the community.

Okay, I'm crying. Because honestly, I had that moment, probably, I don't know, like a little over a month ago or something like that, and I wouldn't have figured it out if it wasn't for fandom and exposure to people with different sexualities and labels, like you said, when I finally like came across like a sexuality and that I didn't understand that it wasn't just like, oh, I don't want to be with people. You know what I mean? Like I thought of it as like, oh, that's just someone who's just wants to be alone forever, but it's not it's that's a spectrum. And itself. And once I did more research, I realized I was like, wow, I fit on this, like this, like, I fit on the spectrum. And it's like, this is me, like, this is me, I never understood why I was the way I was or why I made the choices that I make or think the way they think. And it just, it just hit me. And then even then I was crying. I was like, I know what I am now. And I understand me so much more. And I wouldn't have had that happen. If it wasn't for the queer community and the people that I get, you know, interact with on the regular that I just, I probably would have gone my whole life just thinking I was broken. You know what I mean? Like, it's just one of those things that you don't understand until you understand it. And now it's just, it was so freeing, like in that. So I am one of those people who's like, I have a label and I embrace it. And I love it. And it did so much for me. So that really hit home.

Nice. I'm just like in widly up cheering and applauding, crying. I well. Yeah. Yeah, I'm just grateful that it spaces like this, that have encouraged you to be more exploratory about yourself. That's never a bad thing. Right. And I just, I'm so happy that you've been able to do that. But then also, if this gets me thinking, like, back to fanfiction, maybe one of the reasons that we're so that we're delighted by it, and we continue to read it is because characters get to be in the moment who they need to be and who they want to be with other people, without the need for a society to tie it back to and without all of these sort of extra expectations outside of the world of the thick. So this is it can be a really sort of unfettered exploration of everything that the writer wants to discuss, essentially. And I think that's one of the reasons it's so delightful, especially when we talk about something like Wolf Starbucks, where it's, it can be exactly what it needs to be, they can be who they need to be for each other in that moment. And, you know, it's because of the freedom in relationships like that, that were ultimately able to take those positive steps for ourselves.

Indeed, so

my question is, Who do you wish is there? Okay, so how do you think the relationship happened? Like as far as the timeline? Was it something that two people got together? And then the other person got curious? Or maybe one person was like, I love these two people, or I'm interested like, what do you think as far as the journey of these three together?

Well, the way that makes sense to me, but we mean, we know that James and serious they meet on the train, they become instant friends, and then they meet Remus in their house, you know, all of that the first couple of years. All of that happens, as it were, as far as the romantic aspect, I would say, sometime around, probably between their fourth and fifth year, probably because you know, you have this this group of people that probably also includes Peter. And they're they they talk about every now and then like, oh, that person is quite pretty. Oh, yeah. Oh, and mom given them one. Yeah. Teenagers thinks that teenagers say to each other, just kind of joking around, you'll see somebody attractive out in public and you just sort of maybe even every now and then serious will throw one out. And then he'll kind of say, Oh, look at that person. They're quite fetching and then they'll look over it Remus and see if Remus is reacting to what they're saying like, Oh, have I caught his attention? does he care that I'm finding somebody else attractive, or Remus might? He might say something off had to serious one day like they're all having dinner in the great hall saying so I was reading. I was reading this, this fiction book that I found it's a Muggle fiction book that my dad sent me and there were these two young men in it and they were kissing and I thought oh, that's nice.

And I thought Terfel

Oh, I could get into new

horizons. Oh, the show via

naughty Caprice. And then enter James because he's literally in the middle of it. We've established that. Yes. And so then you have the part in a group friendship where people have to have individual conversations about things like James is saying to serious look, obviously you keep trying to get Remus his attention and you know, he's shy, just talk to him. He's probably not gonna be very forthcoming about it as you are, but he'll understand you. He cares about you. And then he goes to Remus, and he's maybe taking a different approach like I see James going to Remus, and saying, So I noticed that a serious was wearing a A new shirt the other day, and I thought, oh, that fits in quite nicely, doesn't it? What do you think? Exact similar to what Rivas would say, when he's trying to get serious as a test? Did he say, Look, this is what you're doing with serious and it's obviously not working. And I'm not going to force you to do anything you don't want to do. I'm not going to tell him anything. You don't want me to tell him. But I think it's pretty clear. The two of you should probably have a conversation like he's the catalyst that gets us started. Go, Wang,

I told you that

because he's got this connection between each of these people in getting them together. Then when the time comes for James to be vulnerable and safe. There's things I have questions about, there's things I'm wondering about, there's things about me that I'm learning, because sometimes you don't even know until it comes out of your mouth that you feel a certain way. I remember the day that I first acknowledged that another man was attractive. I say, man, we were teenage boys. Let's get that. Right. It was talking to my friend Felicia, she was talking about how her younger brother Michael, he was somewhere between 13 and 14, I was somewhere between 14 and 15. She was saying how he's starting to grow up, and girls are starting to notice. And they're coming around the house to see him all the time. You do have to admit he is a little cutie. And I said yeah, he kind of is and then immediately it's like that part in the movie where the world is on pause, but the main character is the only one moving and wait. Yeah, what did I just say? Yeah, I must have meant it because I said it. And I didn't say it just to say it. But at the same time, I didn't know I was gonna say that. And then you go home and you lie down and your face is in your pillow. Like, oh, what do I do now?

That's what I can. Sorry. I'm sorry. I thought you would continue. No, no, no,

it's okay. I could go all day you jump into bed? No, I was

just gonna say very quickly, I could absolutely see James being that as well, because he's come from this position where he's essentially been the golden boy growing up, he's had this loving family. He's known his position in the wizarding world for so long. Nothing's knocked him off his center. But then all of a sudden, you know, being around all of this new information. What if he suddenly starts to question who he is, after he's played matchmaker, and he starts to realize he's invested in it for more than just the happiness of his two friends. Like he starts to realize there's a lot more going on, like his stake in it is a lot more personal, and intimate. And I, I, because that's such an interesting arc for James because we see him as so confident and cocky, unsure of himself, wants that stripped away, and he gets to be vulnerable. What's that James? Like? Right? You know,

yeah, because what I what I picture is kind of, like, what was already said, is Wolfstar gets together and probably at some point, they're like, Okay, we're gonna be open about this. And then they, they come out, essentially to the school and everyone knows that they're a thing. And then James being like, he's the poster child of like the jock, you know, like, he did Quidditch and whatever, like, potentially that toxic masculinity, energy and things like that. But he could be that person were like, Hey, say that people were saying something, especially if it was like other people in the Quidditch team, like, either sees them, you know, around or makes comments. And he's like, hey, you need to, you know, cut that out. And part of it is like, him figuring out like, not only are they hurting my friends that I love, I'm realizing that it's hitting something in me that I didn't know, bothered me, because it was different, and then starts to, like, then there's like that, that start that nugget of like, seeing them as happy as they are, you know, it's like, they share a room together. Like they do everything together. And then for them to like it to him to see that and then him you know, you think about it, like he's obviously been chasing potentially Lilly his entire career, you know, like Hogwarts. Yeah, not that he didn't have other people on the route to that. But that was his main goal. Like, what if he then thought that that's what he wanted, and that's what he should go for, because of whatever reasons that he had. But then he started realizing, you know, they have something that I actually, I wish, not just wish I had him, like, I want that, like, I want to be a part of that, like you said, it's like they're two people that I love. And I wanted them to be happy and put them together and all of a sudden, I'm like, I want to be in this.

Exactly. And that's something else about it. That makes absolute sense to me, because I've seen this as well, because when you were describing the typical jock, toxic masculine character, it made me think Do either of you happen to watch the Netflix series Sex Education?

I haven't yet. I mean, it's been on my list, but I haven't, but I can say whatever. I cannot

remember the name of the character for the life of me, Ed. He's the headmaster's son. And at the beginning of the series, he's dating all these girls. He's the man he's sleeping around and bragging about it. And you know, typical TV jock stuff. But then he slowly starts to it takes a very typical turn, he starts to develop a crush on another male character. And at first he wants to keep the relationship all secret. And then he has that moment of forgive me for using the term gay panic, where suddenly he starts acting very homophobic towards him to put off any signs people might be picking up on. But then he decides, you know what, I'm miserable living this way. And I don't want to hurt people that I'm supposed to care about. I can see it going that way with James. But a slightly more comforting explanation that I feel like gels with what I was saying previously, is I was talking earlier about the spectrum of sexuality because people wonder those things about these characters to like, would serious be bisexual, because it's not that he doesn't like women. It's just he hasn't found one he likes as much as ramus. Is Remus, gay because, or would Remus be the bisexual because he ends up with tongs, you know, but people change the Canon as they will. With James, I see him being maybe this is just me wanting everybody to be a pan pizza like me. But with James, it's never been about, oh, this person's a man, this person's a woman, I can be the top I can be the bottom. None of that is what's important. What's important is who can I connect with on a level other than just being physical together. And that's why the Wolfstar bucks ship makes sense, because he's closer to these two people than he is to anybody else. And I think that includes Lily, because his connection to Lily doesn't start until much later, unless you adjust the cannon as you like it, right? It's not that he's attracted to men. And here are two men he's attracted to, it's that he has this deep connection to these two other people. And they've shared something that he's never going to be able to have again with other people because it's special. Yeah. And also Peter is there but he's not in it. And Peter, he's not even Peggy

Peter is the voyeur in this situation.

Yet he would be wouldn't know.

The first time you mentioned it. Like after you start kept talking. I was like, Oh, Hamilton reference. I thought you said begging. And I was like he's not even pegged.

I'm like to go over that image.

Okay, I mean, people in the right setting, maybe after quite a lot of fire whiskey. This is the part of the show where we just sit around and say,

Oh, this is this is my, my sort of British prudishness coming to the fore now, where usually, like our American guests are a lot more comfortable talking about their own experience and being very forthright about who they are. And as Brits, we're all hardline conditioned to never put yourself first never talk about your own experience directly. So this podcast has been an eye opening experience for me, because it has allowed me to do that to a certain degree. But I'm still too, like, I'm not yet at the level that where I want to be where I'm like, oh, yeah, that massively applies to me as well. And being absolutely totally, you know, upfront, where that's concerned. But this is another reason why I love talking about these characters at Hogwarts at this time, because the fact that they are doing this is massively stereotype breaking for somebody like me, who is naturally more prudish, or more reserved, or, or well, I say that, like I am now that not really who I am anymore. But that's certainly what I grew up, like, you know, and that was very much what my school environment was like. I mean, you did have people that weren't that, but they were very much the outliers. And so when I read Harry Potter, I assumed that their school was a lot like my school. But now having like, getting to talk to you both, and hearing your experiences of this and what school was like for you, it's really it's eye opening on more than one level is what I want to say. And the fact that these characters and this this, the idea of this hypothetical can create a conversation like this is precisely what's magical about this, like community and why I love this podcast so much, because it's like, every week I learned something about myself. But I did not know was there? And if that's what's happening for other people as well, why isn't this like, like, I'm talking about this, like, it's a sort of an extension of group therapy. I don't feel like that either. But I'm like, also, this is healthy. Like, why isn't this more a regular part of the conversations that we have with each other? You know, like, I'm glad that I get this. I get to have this for me. But also, like, why isn't this more normal? Yeah. Does anyone else feel like

that stigma? Violence? Yeah, rich white guys being in power not wanting the world to be different from how it is? No, because then they'll have less power. I mean, really, everything comes back to that. Yeah. rich white guys wanting to stay rich white guys forever. Yeah, yes. Yeah, one brick out of that Jenga tower, and the whole thing comes tumbling down.

Yeah, yeah. You know, you've got a point. Maybe that's why, again, we like fanfiction, because it doesn't have to be governed by those rules. And by that model of how society works, and isn't it amazing how freeing that feels? Yes. And when you when those characters get to be happy, or the situation gets to be good, in whatever way you breathe a sigh of relief as the reader I like, if it's possible in fanfiction, it ought to be possible in real life. That's kind of how I feel. But I

agree. No, maybe it's escapism at its best.

Certainly. And what always makes be this makes me laugh about fanfiction more than anything, is I say things like that to people all the time about how freeing it is how wonderful it is how everybody should be allowed to do what they like, and be happy with it because nobody's getting hurt. And if you don't like it, then just don't read it. And it doesn't matter at all. And then as soon as I say something like that, I encounter a fanfiction like the one where Harry gets pregnant by a centaur. And I'm like, Oh, all right. So the universe was clearly LISTEN TO GET OFF MY CONVERSATION and it tried to put my open mindedness to the thanks, universe. I hate it.

Me, like, drop that link, please.

Uh, yeah, I was gonna say it's like me in the corner being slightly awkward about how I'm mildly turned on by not just

hey, you know what there are there are stories like that where to a lot of people it probably seems really, really off putting but then you're the one reading it going? Oh, yeah. Anybody? Any it happens a lot. Yeah. There's, I met a voice actor at a convention I worked a couple months ago who plays a character in a show that's actually done quite well on Netflix called be stars. You may have heard of that one. There is. I mean, we even chatted about it for a little while. There's people who would walk up to her table for autographs. And they would want an autograph on a picture of her character from that show. But it's like they were being more discreet, like they were buying something they weren't supposed to. But it's on the table with everything else. And it's all the same. It's all good. And I can't construct a better metaphor than this for why people should be able to just enjoy the things they like as long as it isn't facilitating any harm against other people. It's just anthropomorphized animals. And if you don't like it, then watch whatever Netflix stand up special has come out today. There'll be another one tomorrow and just let people enjoy things will Yeah, thanks.

Yeah, you're you're so right. And as you were talking, I was thinking Have either of you seen the Netflix show? Heart stoppers?

Yes. Heard of it. haven't watched it yet, but it's on my it's on my list. It's

fantastic.

Yeah, it's so relevant as well to this whole James Simis James Right. Nope. Can't Hey, registeration James, James serious Remus. There we go. Got the got the character names out eventually. Isn't

that one of Harry's children? Serious ramus separate whatever.

Dumbledore. Yeah, the point was gonna be that the series is just a really cute touching LGBTQ plus. Sort of, I suppose. Not not necessarily mockumentary style, but it's it focuses on high school characters and their journey into themselves as they They discover who they are as people. And it's just really cute and touching. And I loved it. But it also could be it the sort of the setting for a wolf Starbucks au in which they all sort of discover who they are alongside each other. And as you were talking, you were talking about other Netflix shows, I just had to mention that one. Because I I've only recently seen it like maybe, but a week ago, and I was just like, This is so wholesome. And it's, it's really, it was really refreshing and relaxing for me to be able to watch something that was LGBTQ themed, that also wasn't full of angst, or problems, or, you know, there were integral obvious, dramatic moments and roadblocks to these characters. But it wasn't they were like no one that's

just relationships. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, even even if you're going to do one of those a US which I think is great when they do a US where it doesn't have to be about overcoming adversity, because of who or what you are not that those stories don't need to be told they absolutely do. Because people do need to see that representation. But there are stories of people learning about themselves becoming who they are. And it's not about dealing with homophobic parents, or dealing with bullying, because you're a trans person, my heart goes out to people in the community who do have to deal with those things. But every once in a while, it's nice to get a fluff piece where it's about something else, you don't have to make it about them defending the fact that they're gay, say they can just be gay. And that's just part of who they are. Let's deal with all of the other stuff they're dealing with.

Right? Like if, if HEC pairings can have their fluffy, you know, whatever, quote unquote, normal, just story, why can't everybody like it? Just you know,

that's, I think what they mean by you know, you see all the time now on social media talking about let's normalize this, let's normalize that that's the thing that people are now I think, wanting to normalize, yeah, queer characters who just exist in the space. And there's other things that we can also talk about,

right. And it's not like they're a token of like, Oh, good, they included, you know, it's just, yeah, it just needs to be normal. Like, it shouldn't matter. It's like, you don't need to walk into a room and be like, Hi, I'm Megan, I'm a lesbian, you know, what I mean? Or whatever, like, it's not good. Or whatever. So it's just

a lesbian for five months, three weeks and two days.

On six and a half hours,

but who's counting? Yeah. But yes, no, I loved heartstopper. And I actually saw for, yeah, a couple like fests already that have like prompts out for people to sign up and things there's tons of people are asking for heartstopper a use for various characters, which I think is fantastic. Because we do get the jock that's questioning his sexuality. And he's like, Oh, I liked girls before. But now I like a guy, and I'm not sure I'm ready to tell people. And then there's the boy that was outed. And it wasn't his choice, but he's embraced it. And he's happy with it. He's also been in a relationship with someone who is not about to come out and wanted to keep it secret and was very hurtful to him. And I mean, you just get all of its, it's like little blips of probably so many different queer experiences, which is what I think makes it so special, is it's just, you go through each character has their own journey, and they're all very unique and different. And it's just, it's just so wonderful. Like, I love I love it. It's just so it's so good. You'll have to watch it. Yeah, it's so good.

I wonder what you would think of this too, because sometimes I've thought this when I see how popular Wolfstar is, or how popular wolf Starbucks is, do you feel like it's easier for people to move towards normalizing gender and sexuality spectrums? If you use characters who already have a bit of popularity to do it? Because I feel like if assuming a situation where there aren't that many openly queer people at Hogwarts, but then suddenly, James and serious and Remus are the ones kind of leading the charge by example. Like, is that is it just is it the right way to do it? Or is it almost too easy?

That's a really good question.

Or is it like you said, is it like we talk about the marauders doing it because we don't have that many other characters from this era who be doing it? Because there's plenty of queer ships that happen in the in the Harry Potter fanfiction space. But it seems to me that a lot of them are kind of post Hogwarts, either because the relationships couldn't work at Hogwarts because one of them is too young for that, or because their paths wouldn't cross until after the fact. Right. But with the Marauders, you have, you pretty much have to do it at Hogwarts, because unless you change the canon, they didn't live that long when they left school,

I was gonna say that it probably does make it easier to conceptualize a normalcy around queer characters if you have more of a cultural foothold to base that those formative ideas off of. And I was speaking to a friend of mine about heart stoppers, who said, it made him strategic for a kind of high school that he never attended. Like that wasn't his experience growing up, and he wished it was because he was dealing with a lot of, you know, internalized homophobia and shame around his identity. And, and I felt that as well, to a certain degree, and we were talking about it, and I thought, you know, it takes me back to fanfiction, and the idea of, if it's acceptable in this author's mind, to codify characters in this way, then there must be people around you, that are also living with that as, like acceptable values and an acceptable way to be, because I think a lot of what we were coming up against when we were kids, was this idea that, you know, alternative sexualities, the idea of sexualities, being a spectrum, full stop was somehow morally, more morally weird, if not, you know, because I didn't particularly come from a, an ardent religious background, or, you know, I didn't have any of those barriers to overcome, per se, but there was always this social stigma of, if you are other, I'd like because I had this thing of like, I'm already disabled. So I didn't want to be more other. I didn't want to, like be gay as well. And so there was this thing of like, oh, yeah, I'm really like, I'm, I'm setting myself up for like to be knocked down, essentially. And this was a thing that I was discussing with my friend after having watched this show, which is that we're like, it's such a lovely show. And I'm so glad there's a generation of young people specifically coming up having being able to watch this and having that positive example for them. But I am also there's part of me that is, that feels a little bit bitter sweetly about it, because we had to grow up through this really sort of gray area, that thankfully, now areas like fanfiction are sort of blasting apart that black tapestry of, you know, heteronormativity

the only the only thing I thought of is like, because going back to like so few, you know, marauders characters, it's like you there, it's often a side pairing, but like Dorcas meadows and Marlene MacKinnon are often like seeing as like a femslash ship, like added on as, like, kind of with Wolf's Wolfstar. I guess you could say I haven't read a lot of them. I mean, personally, I haven't read a lot of Wolfstar. It's really weird, because it's one of the only slash pairing so far that I've really come across that I'm actually not super excited about. And I don't know why. I don't have a theory about this. I don't have a good reason. Okay. Please tell me why.

I have no, I have a theory and I was talking to you about it the other day. I was like, if it's because if it's already canon, as we've established that Wolfstar is things become more boring because they've already been explored. Now. You could debate whether Wolfstar is canon, I suppose. But Wolfstar is coming to me full stop. There's no wiggle room there. So I think

but as in affiliates love good once said prove that it is not right. There we go.

Yes, exactly. Exactly. And as long as we all keep off of the original plums of ignorance we'll be good.

Keep off somebody else's dirigible plums more like

Yeah, but it's a it's

especially without consent.

Yes, Consent is sexy. We Yeah, we made a big point of that in our last into the fold episode. Nice. Yeah, it was it was more about how this experience between two characters and it had to stop and we won't get into why because that's a whole nother thing. But the point was that when a character was basically told, we have to stop. He didn't push it. And that was very respectable. No, yeah. Good. Um, that's what you don't usually see, you usually see with consent people ask for it ahead of time, which is good, that's proper. That's how it ought to be. What you don't see a lot of examples of are, okay, we need to stop. And then the other person says it's okay, I understand.

Well see with Wolfstar books, I potentially see there being an avenue there for consensual non consent, because they're all anime guy. And there's a potentially sort of more animalistic nature to that side of the house to be room for that in there. Let's say wanders through the Forbidden Forest at night or, you know, whatever it happens to be. You're right, Consent is sexy. But I also think that these three are very much into having those moments where things aren't as gentle and serene. Let's

Yes, so, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I yeah, I couldn't agree. In that, especially with like, remixes secretly, you know, it's like, he's as much as he is either, like, shame ashamed or embarrassed of his willfulness. Like that's still going to be a part of him serious. It obviously turned into this, you know, dog for a reason. And, and so it's just, ya know, that when you think

about it that way, isn't it interesting that the two that are most easily shipped together as a Canon pair are the two predatory animals and then you've got a dead you've got the one who is not a predator.

Okay, so therefore, we just came full circle and we're like obviously, Jameses in the middle of the damn stag problem so

we got it. We can look after himself, but also very sought after by the predatory. Yes. Oh,

my goodness, that

that's such an interesting way to frame that. I never thought of that before. And now it's all I'll see.

I never had either I it literally just popped into my head like that meet. Yeah, fantastic. Oh, my goodness, you never know, do you

know, I just picture them? Like, what is it like the leading up to the full moon, like, you know, like, he hasn't like, done his transformation, but he starts to get like, like, maybe personality wise, or like gets a little bit on edge. And then they have their little pre full moon like ritual of things together, and then they go through the thing. And then it's a very, like, after everything happens, because obviously it's like they're dealing with like, it's, it's a really, you know, we think of transformation as being like, painful or whatever. And he's like, you know, biting himself and doing all these things, they have to be getting hurt to some aspects. So then after everything, they come together, and it's like the aftercare of the situation, you know, them, like getting through every month, and then having that time together to like, heal, which I think is really beautiful to think about, too.

Yeah, yeah. And that's the, definitely the fluffier side of that relationship. But that's also why it works. Because if you're going through something painful together, you want that on the other side, as well, like, okay, so I guess there are people that literally just want to see them ship together, because they want to see particular kinds of scenes. But I mean, I definitely the sucker for the emotions that carry the relationship along as well. I don't just need to see the primal side of them. It's the fact that the three of them all really care for each other. And that there is this environment of you know, we're like, it's not just that we're getting through this together because we've been thrust together. It's like we choose to be with each other. That's the distinction I'd love to see made me

into. And it's nicer to see that I think part of the one reason I will say before we get into the wonderful fluffy I say wonderful that's a bit self serving. I wrote you guys present and that brought it Oh, wow.

I'm so happy about

this. Before we get into that though, I have to say that it's really part of why I think I like this ship so much is I like seeing a poly amorous relationship. I said that like it's two different words poly are polyamorous. It's nice to see a polyamorous relationship that works out better than the one polyamorous experience that I actually had. Hmm, I bet you all thought that Hey, I bet you all thought that I wasn't going to tell this story but here we Go,

please, I'm gonna strap myself in for this. You walk away as you

say in the intro Gird your loins and prepare to flood the basement not even not even.

Like, I was not expecting to have to take my own instructions, literally, but okay. Consider my curiosity piqued.

Alright, so in 10th grade, so somewhere between 15 and 16, I started dating a girl named Abby, you know, dating when you're in 10th grade, you don't go anywhere you just agree not to hold hands and kiss other people. Right? Except for, you know, honestly headed. Yes. But anyway, so we're together for about a month. And then one day out of the blue, she says, so I need to tell you that I've actually had a boyfriend for about two years, and his name is Kyle. And I don't want to feel like I'm cheating on him anymore. And I remember thinking, well, that's, you know, not great to hear. But, okay. We've been together for a month, we hadn't really been through anything that deep yet. Okay. And then, I think it was about two weeks later, speaking of AOL Instant Messenger, that's going to make a comeback in this story. I get a message that says, Hi, Jeff. My name is Kyle. I'm Abby's boyfriend. What do you think the next message said?

Or? I mean, I, I think I could make an educated guess. But I also don't want to interrupt your flow. I'm enjoying. I'm enjoying the party too much. Like, like Envelop me in the narrative. Go

on. All right. Well, I thought that the next message was going to say, I heard you were screwing around with my girlfriend. You better leave her alone, something like that. But no, the next message said she showed me a picture of you. You're really cute. Would you like to go out sometime? I don't think Wait a minute. Wait a minute. What is happening? No. I didn't know this. I've never seen this before. This had never happened before. I didn't know that people did this. And for it to be with this person. Because she just told me she doesn't want to feel like she's cheating on him. Now. He's messaging me saying hey, you're cute. What? I got some time and like, wait, wait, did you guys like Did he tell her he was gonna do this? Yeah. And then we went on. Like we it was mostly that, but we did go on one date together.

So just the two of you now Oh,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, it wouldn't be a good poly story if it wasn't.

So we went to the movies again, very teenage thing to do you go to a movie that nobody cares about? Because you're not going to watch the movie, you're going to do other things? Sure. Yes, you are. It was Miss Congeniality to a movie that nobody was interested in.

Yeah. Because once you know who it is, you don't need a sequel.

Sure. And so of course, the only seats don't wouldn't you know, it are right in the front. And we thought, Well, okay, sawed it. We're gonna write front and center in front of everybody, but who cares? We came here with a mission, and we are going to accomplish it. So we start doing the mission. That's all I will say. And okay, they told us to stop. And we did. And then we didn't, and we were thrown out. So of course, we did the next thing that made sense. We went up the street, and we loitered in front of a very proper Christian coffee shop and kept doing the mission.

Nice, very good work

was bad test.

Like, can I just say, the balls, all three of you had to be able to do that in the 10th

grade. You are kidding. I

would have been like I would have been, excuse my French but I would have been shit in a brick. So I like could not I just could not have done that at your age. So I am delighted that we're able to that I'm able to share the space with somebody who could well it is so I my my little quiz is very happy about the story. And even if nothing else happened, I'm just very glad that it was particularly a Christian coffee shop that you decided was going to be the backdrop Oh, yes.

Very, very Christian coffee shop. Yet the people inside that we're probably talking because we were also we were not we were dressed well Like golf children because we were I'll sometimes I'll show you guys pictures of of high school Jeff who thought he had problems he didn't know. Oh, anyway, the rest of the story unfortunately is not that exciting because we gradually it was it was very unexciting gradually, we just kind of lost interest in the arrangement, Abby moved away, she and Kyle stayed together, as far as I know, never saw them again. That was the end of it. But I'm always glad that I had that experience because at some point, I was bound to find out that this kind of arrangement does exist and it's fine. And I found out by unexpectedly finding myself in one, and it's the only one I've ever had. Yeah, I didn't feel the need to pursue another one. After that. I knew it wasn't a thing about me. But I accepted that one day, there might be a situation where I find myself in one again, but it would be very similar. I would find it unexpectedly. I never did quite happy in my marriage now. Not worried about that at all. But you know, it's it's it's important to experience life. Yeah,

yeah. Yeah, it is. And it your your soul, right. I think, particularly from my perspective, it because I had so much else going on, like I can see why that side of life sort of passed me by for so long. But there's always a little part of myself that sort of patterns with jealousy a little bit, whenever I hear people elaborating on experiences they had because it was like, that could have been me, but for a few small tweaks in my life that I was not like I just wasn't able to make up the time. So I think this is why I gravitate so strongly to fanfiction now because I so I don't know if you know this about me. But before I started this podcast, I had like next to no grounding in fanfic whatsoever. My I would you know, I'm a literally grad,

I think you've mentioned that before on the show. I'm not sure so

yeah, yeah. I mean, I think I, we did sort of talk about that in our intros. But my background was as a little bit of a literary snob. That's why I tend to go off on long waffling. Excellent for no reason. But and so I thought, you know, what is this strange fanfiction thing? And, you know, and why is it something that I should be reading, and now my opinion of it is completely flipped, where I, like I, even if what you're reading isn't particularly well written, or isn't particularly dealing with characters that are rounded out, there's always something you can take from it. And I, the author will always have a reason for wanting to write characters in a certain way. And even if that's not something that I particularly want to read, I respect that thoughts there. You know, I'm, like, I wish that the I had thought of this model, or hadn't had a concept for how this works. Before I'd come across fanfiction, because it's so egalitarian in that way. It's like, I'm gonna put this here. If you want to read it, you can, if you don't want to read it, that's fine. But it's got to exist here for the people that want it. Like, why can that also not be true of our personal experiences in life? And why are we so still hyper focused on I guess, ways to call each other out? Like I'm, I've never been one of those people that feels the need to hate somebody else just because of something that they choose to do. Even if I strongly disagree with their choices, that's still their choice. And they're free to do that thing. Or it's unfortunate that we have to live alongside people that just aren't comfortable with that dynamic and want everybody to live like that. And I think one of the one of the reasons that, like a poly ship like this, does this job so well, is it's not just a slash ship. And it's not just a slash ship that is possibly coming from a cannon element. It is a, like, an evolved group of people finding out what they love, and then getting to experience that with each other. And who wouldn't want to read? Yeah, who

doesn't want that? Does he think sometimes people think that change is going to be not only not to their liking, but also irreversible? They open their minds to something Yeah, and they don't like it, but now they're stuck in it forever, and they can never go back to what they were doing before so they don't want to embrace These things that don't immediately make sense with what already is and isn't okay for them.

Yeah, yeah. And I think people think like, they put such strong expectations on something like, if you so let's say we're talking about food, if I went to if I'd never had a polonaise before, and then I went somewhere that did one, and it was awful. I'm not going to say, I'm never going to try Bolognese again. Because it could just be that that particular that particular restaurant uses ingredients that are really awful. Like, I'm not going to go Oh, yeah, that's yeah, I tried it once. That's not my thing. Like, maybe this is just part of, like me, reading myself into the narrative here, or, you know, me reading my own exploration, this nature into things, but I never liked the idea that there are opportunities that I haven't seized, because I hate that image of getting somewhere in your life and thinking, ha, you know, what, if I had done this, and you're never going to know, you're never going to know. So I, personally, now get to the point where it's like, whenever we we deal with a poly ship or an unconventional ship, or, you know, anything that is even slightly pushing the envelope for me, I'm like, well, even if I don't think I'm gonna be invested, I always want to give it a whirl. Because if you don't try it, how do you know how, like, how are you supposed to know? And I There are there are people in the world and I've had conversations with them who literally don't eat very simple, basic foods. That and I wonder how they're able to get through life? Never having eaten a potato.

Eat them taters. Honey, I want to talk about versatility. Potato potatoes, potatoes will be anything for you. They'll do anything to please you. Potatoes are the ultimate they are genderless I assume? I don't know. They sexless and yet they will satisfy you.

That's literally my husband's like, what is it? I guess like kind of like cold open like question for people is like what's like what's your favorite kind of potato? Like literally going into like what version of a potato is your favorite potato because there's so many different potatoes and he's like name a better combination than potato and salt

Shall I share with you all what I have brought to offer up today?

Please? Yes, please do that thing. I'm so ready.

Right so for I do that I do want to recommend to all the listeners I shared an already written fanfiction with Meg's and Nathan called Hot library hunk that I recommend because it went in a very different direction from what I did in that one. Remus is the entry point. And serious and James are the established couple there. A couple working in a coffee shop and they are mooning See what I did. Yeah, over library hunk that comes in and orders a coffee and then they're arguing over who gets to serve Him who gets to serve Him. Wink and then at the end you find out

oh my god, I can't believe you just did.

Really we fit at this for almost two hours. I would believe it if I were you. Anyway, at the end of that when you find out his name is Remus and you're like Oh really? Yeah.

It's just they call him it's not like it was tagged.

It's just the way it's a short lovely fluffy, hilarious and the fun isn't finding out who it is at the end. It's the fact that they keep calling him hot library hunk until he says his name is Remus. And you're thinking okay, so this is how they meet him. Yeah, that's hilarious. They're in a why there are so many coffee shops and fanfiction. Don't get me started on that. Anyway, so what I have for you today is something that I have titled give it a spin Yep, pillock. Before I read it, I will accept predictions based on the title What do you think I mean by give it a spin. Yep, pillock.

Ah, well obviously I play off of like it's like so instantly I go instantly to like spin the bottle because of this. Yes. Um, but then also like, you know, some trying something new like like why wouldn't like kind of what you're talking about the food thing it's like oh just give it you know, give it a try you know sort of thing like what's what's it hurt to just you know, so, but I definitely yeah either either they're playing Twister or

oh I should. I'm gonna write that one next they're playing Twister and then suddenly

oops Right foot red, but the foot did not land on red.

Are they wearing Yeah, clothes are not recording.

Please tell me that's a wand in your pocket. No, James that is not a wand in my pocket. My wand is shorter than that.

I actually I saw a meme today and it was the scene in definitely Hallows Part one was it was like me when I see a guy like and it's Voldemort reaching over and going I require your one

perfect

Yeah, so I very, very much doubt that they're going to be on Wheel of Fortune. So I definitely think it's a spin the bottle kind of situation or a truth and dare sort of some gameplay? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Pin the tail on the werewolf. And someone is essentially maneuvered into a tricky situation that they initially think, oh, what what's happening but then they realize they're actually enjoying themselves.

I love these predictions. And now we're going to find out how many of them actually come up. All right, so ladies and gentlemen, and everyone who is something other than that, the world premiere of give it a spin. Yep, pillock by dream colorful. All the griffon doors were gathered in the common room in a circle. The bottle of butter beer was just sitting in the center of the circle as everyone Yes, instantly correct. There you go. Spot on. Well done. So when does it start spinning past a fifth year girl. Don't be stupid. It doesn't spin on its own snap serious. Someone has to grab the bottle and spin it themselves. Most of the Griffin doors stood around the circle staring at serious with a mixture of curiosity and apprehension. They usually went along with whatever he suggested they do, because the payoff was always worth it. This time, he had come back from a Muggle studies class with a mischievous grin on his face, and told everyone to gather in the common room to play a game oh my gosh

yes, in my head canon, this is a Muggle studies professor who says look it's no good pretending that these things don't exist so if you go to a party I know the kind of games you all are likely to play you might have a game of wizard chest or exploding snap button you know the Muggle world all they have to do is just give the bottle a spin and then snug each other perfectly easy oh that's the game are simple

and he's got like a list of all the different games that they go over so like every party he brings out a new you know different game for them to do Oh, that's exactly Nice. Yeah, serious would immediately like okay, we got to put this into practice. We actually have to do this

look, it's easy said serious? Yeah, just like your mum was for James.

Shut up prongs shouted serious. Oh, come off it you don't even like your mom, James reasoned. The point said serious. James Lubin chimed in calmly. The point is you made a quip. While serious is trying to explain how we're all going to take turns spinning this bottle in snogging whom ever it points at oh my

gosh, of course he steps in is like no let me tell you why his behavior

thanks a lot. Remus said serious Why don't you just tell them who's going to win the Quidditch Cup this year while you're at it? Well, Poland has been looking really good this year but then again Scotland is trying to Oh jesus Merlyn Christ booty please learned sarcasm serious shouted. I couldn't help it. I just threw that And I thought I had to work in I was gonna work in Jesus Merlyn Christ at some point I was determined on that.

Yeah, well listen and the thing is better than Merlin's beard at this point like I have to believe people are saying more than Merlin's beard, but

Merlin's most baggy wide fronts so Lupin looked straight at serious and still calm said Jesus Merlyn Christ serious. Can we please get on with spinning the bottle? Serious took a deep breath and rejoined the circle. For a moment everyone just stood there. It wasn't clear if the assembled masses were just nervous about the prospect of kissing one of their classmates in front of everyone, or if perhaps they had become interested in the drama between these three young men. All right, sought it James piped up. I'll go first, then shall I? James pulled out his wand and pointed it at the bottle. Remus reached over and pushed James's arm back down. I don't think it counts unless we spin the bottle without magic James. James rolled his eyes at serious best friends. They may be but remiss and serious. We're always roping him into doing new things like this and then telling him how to do them. Maybe it was just because they wanted to be the ones in charge for a change. Maybe James was just being too sensitive. All right, then, said James. As he stowed his wand back in his robes. He walked to the center of the circle and made a big show of picking up the bottle and placing it on its side.

Typically, those that can't see mags just did a little twirly thing with exactly. Such a good appropriate accompaniment to the ration. Yeah, if you're seeing the video, you'll see why and a few are not those are available on our Discord for a very reasonable price. On our Patreon, I do know I do know something

good. With a flick of the wrist he spun the bottle as it was spinning. He looked around the circle. Lily was nowhere to be seen. Oh no. She was probably studying. She was always studying whenever the perfect opportunity for them to kiss would come up. There was plenty of other people in the circle he had kissed before though. He had to admit he couldn't remember all their names, but he knew which ones they were because they were looking hopeful that this might be round two. Oh my Oh, James Potter is a Oh 804 Show Absolutely. Serious and Remus had their heads together laughing and whispering. James thought at first that they were taking bets on where the bottle might land. Serious had a bit of a gambling problem though. To be fair, he didn't mind burning through his family's money. They never noticed how much he lost anyway. But no, something was slightly off. Remus was smiling the biggest and he was usually the one that got dragged into serious schemes with apprehension. James looked down and he saw the faintest sign that Remus had just put his wand back in his pocket. Oh,

Remus, get your own.

Remember that sound that you just made? It's going to come up in a moment. Oh, blimey, thought James. And as he looked back at the bottle, he saw that it had stopped spinning. James's eyes slowly moved along to where the bottle was pointing. Right between where serious and Remus were standing.

Right between them. Oh,

there was a period after every. Those were nice. There was a collective thought there was a collective move indoors. If they weren't that into the game before they were certainly into it now. Serious and Remus were standing there twiddling their thumbs looking as though they were saying just go along with it. Dear me said serious it looks as though you've got quite a difficult choice to make James. Very difficult indeed. Added Remus. Either way, you've got to give one of your best friends a proper snow guy reckon?

So define snug, does the weight of the story. Does the story define what a proper snug is or how far into the gullet are the tongues go in?

The way that I imagined egg This is remissed sorry, Max sorry, Remus is taking a jab at how many times James has probably stubbed other people saying, well, you're the expert, so you ought to know a good kiss from a bad one. I have to give a good command performance. Where

That's hilarious.

I see. I got excited last night. Okay, proper snug. I reckon that's where it was. But don't worry, said serious you're in for a treat. Either way. My boyfriend is a very generous kisser. can confirm said Remus as his mind.

Okay, so we have established Wolfstar and Dan Okay.

James weighed his options as the other Griffin doors whispered about what he was likely to do. He had to give his best friend's credit. They had set him up beautifully, and he hadn't even seen it coming. He smiled to himself as he made his decision. He might love a good prank, but he was going to have the last laugh. He strode across the room grabbed hold of serious and kissed him full on the mouth. Heck, yeah, there was another Ooh. Kissing. Now here's where it gets interesting.

Ah, it wasn't interesting. It is interesting.

The descriptive language is about to take a turn Bugaloo Oh, James never really thought that kissing another guy would feel all that different. But it was and not in a bad way either. It was as if the person kissing him back had the same approach he did. understood what he needed. was nice. But it had to stop because James's strategy wasn't finished

now I've got Yeah. They broke apart and Remus stared at James with wide eyes. I mean, like size a galleons. His eyes are

like too long his eyes how big they are right now.

Enjoy yourself. Did you ask serious with a smug smile on his face? Wouldn't you like to know James retorted, then grabbing his other best friend. He pulled him in for a kiss. This one was different. Oh, there was just as much experience in this kiss as James had himself Oh, someone who knew how to lead as well as James did. Although he had clearly drunk the butter beer to empty the bottle. So his kiss was sweet in more ways than one. Oh, I got chills.

This is some excellent tutorial peer review right here I am into this content.

Alright, because here comes the homestretch. Trust me, you're gonna love it. When they broke apart, the crowd was full of wolf whistles. Wink and squeeze. Them must be squeezed. Exactly. The three friends stood there torn between the desire to take a bow to their obviously adoring and approving fans, and the desire to find someplace more private to work out what they had all just experienced, buddy. After all, whatever Remus and Sirius had expected when they set all this up. It wasn't this. Something had happened today. Some new and exciting aspect of their friendship had snuck up on them out of nowhere. Before they had time to work out what to do next. A voice from behind them said Oh, good. You're all playing spin the bottle. Mind if I go next. The three turned and saw that Lily joined this the end? Ah there you go. Thank you. Oh, wow.

Oh, my soul is very soothed right now. That was very, very good indeed.

Thank you. Oh, so Okay, so I loved Okay, so what I loved about obviously, the kissed writing is you were obviously playing off of serious Being able to receive the type of kiss that James gives like perfectly because obviously Remus kisses in that way. And so then for James to feel that in reverse a mirror image or what, like, that's just, I loved them so much that was so good.

It's what I when the story ended up going that route and I'm thinking to myself, What would this actually feel like? Like if I'm James, what's going through my mind? Because James, you know, he's a hoe, you've established that it's canon. It's, we all know it. When he's kissing Remus Remus is he's the shy little cinnamon roll boy. And this is one of those rare opportunities for him to kind of be a devious little scamp like serious is that's part of what brings them together. He doesn't do it all the time. But he can. And when James is kissing him, James is thinking, Oh, it's okay. I'll lead and you're just going to, yeah, enjoy it. And yet, because he's now got so much experience, because he's got this wonderful boyfriend who has clearly been tutoring him knows what somebody needs in that kiss. But then when he's kissing serious, it's like two masters doing battle. It's like, okay,

I got shipped sword.

Exactly. It's like, James is kissing serious. And he's thinking, maybe I don't need to be in charge all the time. Oh, my good, because obviously, my best friend here knows as much as I do. Yes, maybe even more awesome.

But I think he would enjoy that fight for dominance. And I think you you put that across beautifully in the writing as well. Like I just loved the my main love of this whole story is that James is ostensibly on the backfoot for all of it like he has no first of all, he has no idea what he's being put up to. And then he has no idea the intensity of the experiences he's about to be exposed to. And that is a lovely color to see on James because there's we've already said like, whenever that sort of khaki jacket SNESs gets flipped. That is such a that's such a fun side of James to see. And it used it that so well. I'm thank you so much for sharing. That was incredible.

Thank you. I was happy to do it. It's a perfect excuse for me to I had never written a Wolfstar books before. So it was it was seems appropriate that it would be first this occasion that I would I would finally sit down and write one.

Awesome. Now I'd like added to the list of all the things that

have a growing list of it has to be so long now that it's impossible. With all of the myriad things that you

have no idea. It's so bad. It's just it's so bad. I

do just want

next time I'll do one where they play Twister. Yes, think of that. But now that it's been put out there, I can't stop thinking Okay.

Hmm. That's for next week's Muggle studies class. We all know what's really going on in those classes now.

And I picture a serious as the one to start. So it's probably you know, James and Remus are playing Twister. And Sirius is in charge of the spin or whatever, all of a sudden, he's like pretending to spin and he's like, oh, like he's obviously strategically, strategically placing, you know, body parts, like this. Oh,

I know. I've got it. So sometimes they do these things, especially in animated shows where the teacher doesn't turn up for class and one of the students who's kind of the Alpha Yeah, has to lead everybody. So Sirius hops up in front of the class and says right you lot listen up. I've got a Muggle game for you since we've been talking about those brings out Twister nice, right? You spin the wheel you put whatever part it says to put wherever color it is. I've added a few just to get creative. Don't overthink? Like I'm sorry, you want me to put my what on green? Or I'm sorry. You want me to put my right foot where exactly

the like the playing mat is magically enlarged as well so that all of the class can participate at one.

Yeah, the playing mat isn't the only thing if you're no one.

Well, I see normally normally it's me on this podcast going to those places. So I'm delighted to be able to like doff the chapeau to somebody else and give someone else a chance to be filled because I feel like not that you're not filthy mags. I always feel like I I

don't wear a bags you're you're properly filthy. I have no doubt

I get plenty filthy in my fiction

No, no, no

I do just want to really quickly circle back to a point you made before. You gave us all that wonderful story where you were like there's so many coffee shops in fanfiction. Really? The ship name is literally Wolfstar. So yeah,

yeah, it's got Starbucks in it. Yes.

Yeah, they have to make the coffee shop. That's it's baked right into the time.

But we've we've also talked about how Not everything has to fit within the established canon. I don't know if Starbucks even existed during marauders era. And I don't know how long it took to make it from Seattle, Washington. Over to the UK. Do they have Starbucks over there? They have it don't I think

I feel they do. Definitely we haven't now. I feel like it came over in the 90s. Because I definitely remember when the first few happened. It was a big thing. It was like we're getting something really culturally significant and important. And then after a few years, everybody was just like, Oh, no.

Okay. Speaking of speaking of hilarious text messages from spouses, my husband,

well, that was a big pivot, but okay, let's,

which we were speaking of, like, two hours ago,

but it's relevant right now. So he texted me how much longer and I said hopefully soon and he's like, I Loki wants to?

Yes. The line is working out exactly the way it should.

Oh my gosh, that's so that's funny. That was great.

I delighted this is just one away. What a way to come full circle on this episode. Absolutely. Like Yes. For spousal approval husband had.

Yes. All right. So I'm trying to think Is there anything else that any points or thoughts or feels that we haven't covered?

You had? I think at some point, not maybe not every single episode, but I think there's generally a part where you ask yourselves do you ship Yes, that's what I sort of feel like we entered into the conversation. Pre shipping. Yes,

yes. See? Because this me, I just need someone with them. Like I'm not anti Wolfstar But like, when Wolfstar get someone in there? I'm like, Yes. Like that's, that's great. I love Yeah, I love the idea of this. So yeah, absolutely. I definitely ship this. So definitely,

definitely ship it. Well, I

already shipped Wolfstar So I can't imagine a universe where in I don't also ship this adding more people into the equation is not a problem for me. And the fact that it's James as well that we've gone into like fleshing out his character and how great that would be in addition to what we've already established is that I yeah, I shipped this 100% Obviously I like

and I'm not against like I've of course now I'm curious that I'm like Oh Would it be will Starbuck tail Peter and

well, Starbucks and Peggy oh man,

so good. Yeah, if we can get any Hamilton edits that are marauders style that would be Peter.

Peter Peggy grew

Peter Peggy grew but Remus is Peggy oh

oh man. Yes. So yes, so

we absolutely ship but you know what we have a chapter called The other minister will have one called the other Skyler sister.

There we go.

Yes, yes, we will.

The roll dressing up as the Schuyler sisters for Halloween because they're doing a drag review at school and Peter wants to be at it too. But there aren't any more Schuyler sisters so he has to invent one yes. Oh, this is a fanfiction.

That other sister that No.

The other Schuyler sister it will be called and it will be fantastic wonder and one of them will be bad at makeup. And it will probably be serious, but that'll be part of it. He'll be one of those messy queens who likes to have a hairy chest. Oh, yeah, no boobs and is bad at makeup. But that's part of the show. Yes. Yeah, I

don't think it's that he's so much bad at makeup as he wants to also stay hairy. So that that's just part of it. He's drug like, he's he's very all about blurring that gender binary. And I'm all about that. And

all like serious would definitely be front and center at a Ginny lemon show. That's his kind of Queen. Yes,

absolutely. Absolutely.

He's in the front row throwing back cocktails yelling at the stage.

Oh, he's he's front stage in front of stage at a bimini bumbu law show. And he's waving a massive oversized lentil.

Ah, yes. He's a show is your bomb? Yeah, solid going with you. Trust me, Mom goulash has quite a nice bomb.

isn't afraid of showing it off either. No, that's

a big, big nekkid energy. That's that's part of it.

So Bimini and Ginny, for those who aren't familiar. Are queens from a repulsed drag race UK. And they are quite the characters. So definitely, if you haven't come across them, I do recommend giving them a nice zing. Yeah, cuz Jenny lemon, wouldn't it if you gave her a Google if you're no one else? Done it again. Oh, man. Oh, wow. I feel like we've covered so much in this episode. Again, I feel like we've done a full sort of guided tour of things that aren't necessarily Wolfstar. But that we tried,

but we know

that it all tied back to the topic. It did. And it

Yes, it did. And this was my defense last time. But in my in my defense this time, I feel like we at least discussed the three of them together. We did we we didn't do in the last how

they fit together.

Literally, together.

Yes. Oh, my goodness. Well, this has just been incredible. I've loved every single minute of this, like nearly two hours has gone by and they haven't noticed. Yeah.

Haven't been no idea how fun I was.

Yeah. So so this is thank you so much for reaching out and wanting to do this. Because I mean, that was just such a great message to receive. We love when people get excited about a ship enough to be like, I want to talk about it. Because obviously we have our ones that were like we want to talk about this, but it's not going to be every single ship every time so this was but I was tempted as soon as you said, I have this I have thoughts and feels on wolf Starbucks. I'm like, Yes, this we have to get this happen. I don't know how or when. But it will and I gave you like four days notice and so

and then in comes Jeff saying excuse me, I have some Destiny to manifest because the moment I heard the show for the first time I said, Oh, I have got to find an excuse to get on this. This is just This is too much fun. These these are my people. Oh, I gotta I gotta get in this sandbox and see what comes from it. And then I'm thinking about it wasn't even we'll start it was some episode that it was a recent episode that you guys had released before we're recording this one and I thought I've got it. The penny finally dropped. I said I know what we need to talk about. So I reached out to Meg's and I said could we baby do this and you were so enthusiastic. I said nope. I made the right call. Yes

I Can I just say when Meg's told me that we'd be having you on to do this episode. I was so excited. I was like Jeff is in the Jeff that wrote us that would have effect for spooge and then Jeff is in the Jeff that did Thong Song for the 12 days of shipment. No we got to have like the full feature like experience like I don't regret a single minute this this

everything about this has been absolutely wonderful.

Fantastic. So yeah, well now we get to you know, whatever do our awkward not really goodbyes but thank you so much for joining us we'll definitely have to do it again. Especially if you have another I know Giuliana is like I got score bus I got score bus Don't worry Giuliana we remember we

are You're in for it with Giuliana with SCORE vis you can be sure of that. She will she will give you a good proper episode. Fantastic

and I love scorpions too. I that will be so much fun when we get to that one well yeah,

because there are so that's common as

well. That actually is Canada we don't just have to pretend that it is yep, I mean that's Canada in that universe. I won't I won't go on about curse child except to say I enjoy curse child

right? It being Harry Potter camp. Yes, exactly.

I will I I enjoy curse child. Okay, you know what? I'll say it. I enjoy it. I don't get caught up in the debate about whether or not it's canon. That's a stupid argument to have. I like it. It's fine. That's all.

Okay, I can i Yes, I'm on board with how much you love it, and you love it. And that's all it means to be happening in this description right now.

I love the characters that gave us I love the characters that gave us. Yes,

I agree. I agree with you.

I have so much fun with next gen for sure. So, yeah, well, I read what are you going to do? Is there anything else?

To say? I can't wait to I can't wait to do this again.

Definitely, you will know where I can be reached anytime just send up the bat signal. Here. I shall be.

What is it? Like? I will literally put a waffle in like, in like a bubble like thing like a thought bubble?

Yeah, like a thought. Just put that up in the sky.

Perfect. Well, thanks again for joining us. And this was so much fun. We're just our episodes just keeps getting longer and longer. And that's just how it is. That's just the way it is. And I don't think anyone so as far as we know complaining yet, so it's so much

fun. They don't mind. Yeah, just enjoy it. So it's all good. Yeah,

so until next time listeners, we can't wait to see what comes next time. Who knows? Listen.

Because because we don't or Yeah, it's gonna be it's gonna be a hot mess, but it's gonna be fun. We know you're going to enjoy it. So come back for that whenever that is, and we will look forward to delighting your buy so now that you've finished enjoying that episode, a bet you're wondering what we're going to be talking about next time. Will it be a ship? Could it be a trope? What about a character centric episode, editing mags, put the listeners out of their misery. Next time we'll be focusing on

Arthur and Molly Weasley.

So come back to enjoy that you're really as possible convenience, but you know, preferably sooner rather than later. Because we do make it so you listen to it, and we hope you enjoy it. Remember your Gunkel Nathan's advice. Be kind to each other manager Mischeif and we'll catch you in the next one soon.