All right, Bin. Well, welcome to the podcast. It's great to have you. Thank you, Ernie. Excited to be here. Yeah, me too. So I, you're somebody I've gotten to know, as a lawyer, we can kind of talk about that. But folks who don't know you, why don't we start off by getting into some of your background? And tell us, you know which city you live in and what kind of law you practice? Well, I'm
an immigration lawyer and I practice in Montreal, Canada. And I started practicing law in 2016. And I only take on immigration cases. Okay, so right now I work mostly with international students, recent graduates and temporary foreign workers to help them obtain Canadian permanent residency.
And that has been your focus pretty much the whole time as immigration law. Yeah, I practice only immigration law since I became a lawyer in 2016. Okay, and so what before we get into that? Just tell us a little bit about Montreal? Like, Have you always been lived in Montreal? And if not, what inspired you to move there? Oh, well,
I haven't always lived in Montreal. I actually grew up in, in China. Seung Joo. And I moved to Montreal with my parents. So I immigrated wisdom to Canada with my parents when I was nine years old. Okay. And that's how I ended up in Montreal. I studied and grew up in, in Montreal.
And and you like it there? Is it I sit at?
Yeah, I mean, my show is great. Although I like to travel as well travel on a couple of occasions to the States. And I love the life in the States. But man show is great, because it's bilingual and, and always speak French. I grew up here. So I'm very comfortable here. And I live now in the suburbs. So I get to enjoy all the benefits of living in a big city. But I still feel the peacefulness of a small town.
Yeah. Yeah, my wife and I went to Montreal, cash. Three years ago, I think. And we had a great time there. We had some friends who live nearby who drove up to meet us. So we went to the circus LA and this really? Yeah, it was we really, we want to go back. It's a great city. And it kind of reminded me of New Orleans in a way. Or I guess, South Louisiana because South Louisiana. They're a Cajun folks who live in Lafayette. So they're, they speak French, you know, or a version of French. That is different than what they speak in Paris. So that's kind of similar, I guess, in that there's a bilingual culture there. Okay. Yeah, there's
a lot of festivals in Montreal and museums in the summer. And this in the summertime is actually quite, quite warm. So yeah, it's great. Well, I
will definitely be going back down and I will be next time we go. Now that we know you, we will see if you're in town, and maybe we are Yeah, definitively. And so tell me a little bit about about your, your idea of becoming a lawyer like why did you decide to become a lawyer? Was this something that your parents wanted you to do that you had friends or family that had done? Like, what was the lightbulb that said, Oh, let me go to law school?
Oh, well, my parents actually wanted me to become a doctor. So becoming a lawyer isn't something that I had really thought about until I was choosing my programs at the end of my college studies. So in college, I studied in health science. And when I was it was time to apply for my bachelor degree, wasn't sure exactly what to do. So I applied to different programs, and ended up being approved to microbiology, computer science and law. And no one in my family was a lawyer or I didn't know any lawyers. So it wasn't something that came easily to me or it was a, you know, a natural path for me. But I knew that getting to law school would mean many years of hard work. And it seemed like a good challenge. And now I'm very glad that I made this choice. I love very much in my profession. And yeah, and especially I get to build and develop my own business, which is very satisfying. Very cool.
And where did you go to law school
to university, morial Montreal university?
And is that a big program? Like how many in your, in your? What l class in your freshman class, like how many lawyers get accepted?
While we're on the 200 students? I remember correctly,
and you study in both English and French or is it only French or how did that work?
Oh, well, the program is a civil law program of three years in French. And after the bachelor degree, we get to study six or 12 months. The Quebec Bar Exam now will be that it's actually four to eight months for the Quebec bar, and then we have to pass an internship of six months to become a lawyer.
Wow. And in law school, was there something that in the in the course of your studies in law school, that gave you some idea of what kind of law you wanted to practice? Or did you not think about that until you graduated?
I didn't really think about that until I graduated. I had the experience. I worked in legal information clinic during my studies. And I got to touch a little bit of different fields of law, but I didn't choose exactly which field I will practice in.
I imagine since your your parents immigrated into Canada, that would be something that would be an experience personal experience. So you could draw on to help you understand what immigration law might be like, is that what prompted you to go in that direction? or How did you connect the dots to say, Okay, well, I want to practice immigration law.
Well, not really, I was young when I came to Canada. So I wasn't into law school, I was thinking I'm going to become an immigration lawyer. One experience I did have during my studies was one I sponsored my wife from Russia to Canada. So I had to do the paperwork myself, but still, I wasn't aiming to become an immigration lawyer. When I finished my law school, and I had to do it, the internship actually started in family law. I had an internship in a small law firm of two lawyers. And it's only after I completed my internship, that I found a job in the field of immigration law, and that I have started working in the field.
And was there something about? So when you're filling out the paperwork for your, your wife, I guess, I guess what this reminds me of is there was a, there's a famous example. And maybe you know about this person. But there's a woman named Sheila Murthy, who the New York Times wrote an article about because she had immigrated from India. I believe it was in India and her husband was a web designer guide. So but way before the web took off, he helped her create a website about immigration law stuff, and it took off. And so she has this huge law firm, because in terms of marketing her story, and being able to explain to people like Well, look, I went through this process, made it really easy for her to get new clients because they figured, well, if you have been through this process, you understand it. And you understand it not just from the standpoint of the legal requirements, but also from the personal experience so that you No wonder if that was something that affected you, when you were kind of helping your wife with her paperwork.
Well, in choosing the field of immigration law, it wasn't really the deciding factor. But it does help when I tell my story to some clients. And they can see that I can put myself in their shoes, and that they have walked the walk, you know, to go through the same situation, I understand their stress and their anxieties and, and eighth grade to help clients to obtain whether it's their permanent residence or just a visa to come to Canada, you know, and I get a lot of happiness from my work. Because I have experienced this personally,
right. Now, I'm guessing me You're bilingual, at least because you speak French and English. Do you also speak other languages? like Chinese? Yeah, I
speak Chinese Mandarin.
Okay, too. So well, let's get let's back up and go through just kind of your history. So you graduate from law school, and then walk us through kind of quickly what you did after you got out of law school until you got to the point where you are now just give us kind of an overview of your practice from law school up until now.
Okay, well, when I graduated from law school and passed the bar exam, and I was planning to go to the court every day and practice as a general attorney, you know, in, in several practice areas didn't have any knowledge or idea about the business of being a lawyer. Right. So as I said earlier, I did my internship in a small law firm, and that's when I wanted to start my own practice. And, at the same time, as I had some free time during my internship, I ended up taking a course titled starting a business in a community college in Montreal. The course was four months long and there was a giving the evening so everything everyday I mean after my internship I went to the community college to learn the basics of starting a business. I had other classmates like some who wanted to start a restaurant or others who want to start a bookkeeping business or get into retail. And so I learned a lot about studying business like doing the SWOT analysis, determining the ideal client. And so by the time I finished my internship and I, I got my lawyer license already wrote the business plan for my legal practice, but I didn't have a lot of money and coolant, or didn't want to take the risk, at that time, didn't want to take a loan, still had the student loan to repay. So I decided to work as an employee somewhere. And then in 2016, I got hired by College in Montreal, to work as a lawyer at the international students department. And I worked there for about two years and half. And my my job was to help international students of the college to obtain the proper authorizations to study in Canada or to maintain their status in Canada. So to extend their study permits, or to apply for a new work permit after they complete their studies. And at the same time, I started my practice on my own. Since I had the business plan anyways, I started my law practice part time on site. And I had no financial risk. And when I was meeting clients, I was just booking a room somewhere per hour. And, yeah, that's how I started my practice slowly until 2018 when I went on my own full time. And, yeah, I worked on my own for about two years, until last year, when I joined the law firm specializing immigration law. I wanted to learn more and perhaps improve my practice faster. I found that I never really worked in the law firm. My first experience was in the college is a different from a law firm. Right? And, yeah, but recently, I decided to go back on my own and have my own clients.
Yeah. So so that's so it's really interesting to me that you have so much experience that connects you to immigration work, like, you know, like you mentioned, I mean, first you came here, when you were nine, I came to Canada when you're nine. And while you don't remember at all, that is a, you know, something that you know is in your background and your experience and your parents experience. So you had that then you helped your wife, with her paperwork, and then again, at the university, you're doing that for a bunch of other people. So you had a lot of experience helping and thinking through the process of being an immigrant coming to the country of Canada. And that's incredibly useful, it would seem to me, you know, because you know, the law, you you learn the law, but you also need to learn, how do people feel about that process? So, was that something that you, I mean, that you now you kind of see the value of that, or? Or how do you? How do you look at that?
definitively, I mean, my clients I understand, sometimes they can be worried, and that they need reassurance. Often when I send the, you know, at the end of the case, I send a survey to my client, they always say that there was understanding I was helping them through, you know, their project, their, their passport and permanent residency, and it really built a lot of empathy. And I think that's an important trait to have an immigration lawyer. Yes. So go through a difficult time of their life sometimes.
Yes, as any lawyer, you know, empathy is a really good, it's the old thing, which I'm sure you've heard me say before that. Nobody cares how much you know, until they know how much you care. And that's something we tend to forget. as professionals, you know, doctors have that, that concern as well. So I'd say you so you decided to go out. So you joined a firm, which is interesting, because he felt like you needed a little more experience and what kind of experience do you feel like that was helpful for you and getting as somebody who'd been out on your own doing it on your own, but now you joined a firm like, what did you get out of that?
Well, when
I started on my own, I didn't take retainers. I was charging the client first and then I wait for them to pay. And I was in I didn't realize it. I knew I could take retainers, but that's a big lesson I learned. This may be obvious for some lawyers, but I can take bigger cases or take longer time to charge more and to get more organized on this, on this side
and
to some basics. But other than that, I haven't learned much I will say.
All right, well, so now, so then when you were thinking, Okay, I'm going to go back out on my own. And this time, you know, I'm going to have a solo practice. That's what I do. What were the things? What are the concerns, if any that you had about doing that? I mean, you had already done it once. It's not like you were somebody who'd never gone out on your own, you're kind of returning to the place where you are. But did you have some concerns? Or what? What was the thought process? Like to your worry? What did you feel confident wanting to? What was the thought process? And how did you feel? I felt great. I feel liberated. And then I'm talking about like the as you were contemplating before you made the jump, oh, I see worried about the prospect of doing it, or were you like, that's no big deal. I've done this before.
Oh, well, I
thought about it. And then I did the math. And financially, it will be much better for me to be on my own. So usually, people worry about financial stability, I guess. And that's what I felt before the first time that I went out on my own in 2018. Remember, I was working part time on my own and full time as an employee? And yeah, but recently, I didn't feel any concern. But the first time, I will say the financial stability is a very big concern. I waited until I paid back my student loan, and I had six months of emergency funds. I knew that if I didn't get any money in, I can survive six months, no problem. Another concern I had was getting new clients. Right. But that rapidly disappeared. Because once you give a good good work, and clients refer you even I found if if we don't have a good marketing skills, I mean, to keep getting new clients continuously. So I haven't had a problem with that.
Cool. So So what is most enjoyable to you, or exciting about having your own firm? Is there anything that stands out? Or is a couple things? or?
Yeah, well, was the recent experience I heard, I will say to be my own boss, is the most exciting part I get to decide how to spend the money, I don't have to share the decision or discuss it with someone else, which software to use to create, build and refine my own systems would say the the financial aspect is, is very good as well, because I make much more money now than when I was an employee. Also the job security because I don't ever find myself and always be making money making a good life. So
yeah, yeah, that's funny, because I was, so I had that fear, like I worked in a big firm. And, you know, there were very few people that would leave the big firm, because they would say, oh, there's so much security in the big firm. And, you know, the more I thought of I kept thinking, Well, some people get let go, not partners, and I was a partner, but still, you know, just didn't seem like it was, you know, as secure as we thought it was. And then Katrina, the hurricane happened in 2005. And the firm was in dire straits, it was kind of like the pandemic, we were shut down. And so they quickly decided we were going to let a bunch of people go, and they let some partners go, and they let some other folks go, they didn't let me go. But I, you know, I looked at that. And I thought, Wait a second, there's not so much security in a big firm. I mean, exactly what you said, Yeah, I thought I'd rather be by myself, because I'm not going to fire myself. You know, as long as I have work, I'm gonna, you know, I'll just give it to me first.
And clients will always come to you. Right? Right. Whereas if you work in the firm, and you're let go, the clients will go with the firm, more depends on your arrangements,
right. Yeah. So and creating your firm if you and I don't know how you think about this, but I know when I went out on my own after I had done that. And of course, before I went out to talk to friends of mine, who were lawyers, and said, like, well, What software do you use for this? And what did you do, but that's like, like, collected all this information. And then when not, when people were leaving their firm, they would ask me and go to lunch with them. And I would give them, you know, the information I had collected. And that actually kind of became the first place where I started teaching lawyers. Because I felt like that, you know, something I really wanted to help other people with, given how they'd helped me. And I just kept this kind of this document that had all the resources so that I could give it to people really quickly with links. And so I kind of always was paying attention to what were the resources that I found most helpful not just to me, but to the greatest number of lawyers. So what? What were the resources that you would say helped you the most in creating your firm?
Or even when I was a working my own part time, I started following your courses. And I started being paperless right away when I opened my firm in 2016. And I took your course I think it was paperless,
Yeah. And you remake you recommended the scanner, the Fujitsu scansnap, which was my first major purchase. And I remember the first day I bought it, I scanned like, 500 family pictures, and I understood that you were on something. And it, it really helped me to get organized. And to be able to work from anywhere. Especially, especially when had to meet clients somewhere else other than the office. So that's something that's very important to be paperless by.
So the scanner would be one. Like anything else that you you know, you think of when you did this most recently and said, okay, that, like, did you use practice management software?
Yeah, for practice management software, I use a software called the team desk. It's a relational database that we can customize on our own, and which I started using when I was working in the in the college. Because I was trying to find software's specialized for immigration, which I found some but I couldn't customize the software as I wanted it. For example, if want to try to different dates, sometimes the software didn't allow us to do it, or to prepare reports. So Tim did something that I really enjoy doing. But he has a learning curve. I've been using it for a long time. So that's what I use for my practice management software.
I'll put a link in the show notes for it, I see that it's the Starter Edition is $49 a month. So that looks pretty reasonable. Yeah, I'd say team desk scansnap. Anything else that you use any other important software for your practice? Yeah, well,
I started using Zoho CRM in 2017. That's really useful in tracking the new clients, the I can manage my deals to track how much you know, I propose for a retainer and to gather all the information before the client becomes a client. I also use it to send out automatic service at the end of a file. Cool. Yeah,
yep. I'm looking at it now. It says $14 per user per month. So is is that the plan that you're on?
But I bought the Zorro one ecosystem, so they have accounting software as well as auto books, right. They're all bunch of software's even for password management. So I think it's like $40 or $50 for the whole ecosystem. And sometimes I'm tempted to like purchase another software, but then they have like a lite version from zero. So I just get to test it out. And yeah, yeah, it's been helpful. Well,
I mean, the key to the software is it doesn't really matter what software you use in the sense that you know, it's database software is what you're using with Team desk and Soho and and so that kind of database offers is something you have to learn how to use and use it the way you want to. And if you invest the time to learn it, you know, you get better at it. And once you get really good at using one piece of software, it becomes you know inadvisable to switch to something else just because it's quote better. Yeah. gratulations on staying focused. Yeah. So team does scansnap Soho CRM plus the other sweet what is there anything else that you depend on heavily and rec?
Oh, yeah, well, text expander that you were introduced to me. started using turn 18. They started slowly. At first, I didn't have this automatism to create snippets now the shortcuts. But now I can't type a text without thinking if I have already. The template in text expander. And I use it every day. It saves me hours every week. And for anyone out there who's not using it, you shouldn't really take a look into it.
Yeah, it really is magic software. I mean, it's one of those. It's funny, because when I discovered it, and this is kind of a phenomenon I have with technology rgl when I realized that there's something really powerful like that, that was definitely one. I'm like, why wouldn't everyone use this? And so I'll tell people about it. And some people get it right away. But it always, I always find it interesting. When there's people who are really tech savvy, they're motivated to be efficient. And then they don't get it right away. And I've had a couple of friends like that, who just didn't get it. And I just thought, Okay, well, maybe they'll never use it. And then one day, they tell me, Oh, my God, TextExpander is the most amazing thing in the world. Like I told you that two years ago, like you're just finding out now. But
yeah, for me, it took time until I was on my own. And I really had to find ways to save time, when I was really busy, and how to manage everything, that's when I put efforts to think about the system about how I can save time here and there. And the text expander really helps me to create templates of emails or even to name the my PDF documents. And it avoid that mistake, and I never typed anything
more than once if I can, right, if you can help it. Now, all of these software's that you mentioned, are either cloud based or in the case of text expander is cross platform. It works on Macs and PCs. Are you a Mac user, a PC user? What What is your tech situation there?
I'm a PC user. Okay. The use the PC for productivity, although I own the Mac as well. Okay. Yeah, I'm a PC user.
Cool. Alright, so team desk can snap Soho text expander. Anything else you want to add to the list of amazing tools that you use and recommend?
Yeah, well, the most recent tool that I started using, thanks to you again, it's a sweet process. Okay. Yeah. Like you started this systems course last year. And I was among the first participants. And you told us to write notes in Evernote and whichever tool we're comfortable in. So I started writing so many systems in Evernote. And I was really confused. Every time I was looking for a system I was typing in, or I was going to the tag and trying to find the right system. But I took the course again recently, and now recommending this bid process, I thought about it. And you know, I purchased it, I started using it systematically. And now every time I have a chance, I go to write the system down. And if I could do it earlier, I would have done it much earlier, because whenever I feel anxious, or because I realized we can't keep all the procedures in our mind. You know, it's like from the book The Checklist Manifesto to avoid mistakes, even though we have done it 100 times. I write it down. And every time I have to go through a routine task address opens with process find the Find the procedure that I wrote down, actually the process I wrote down, and I just follow it step by step. And it really made my life easy.
Yeah. Well, I will say I apologize for the first cohort, not recommending sweet process as emphatically. And it was really my fear. Because I'm always unconscious that just because something is amazing for me or that I think it's great. That That doesn't mean I should be super enthusiastic about recommending recommending to other people. And I felt like there's a balance between, it's always better if people can do something with a tool they're already familiar with. So that's why I was telling people well, if you know that Evernote then use Evernote. But I also realized along the way that you really do need to use a dedicated tool for this documentation of your procedures. And so once I realized that, that I realized I need to tell people that and so that's why in the later versions of the workshop, we now focus on sweet process. And then the last one that I went through, you know, which was the sixth workshop, I realized that while I've covered other things like loom, which is a good tool, and uh, you know that Lou and Trello, really the workshop needs to be about using sweet process. So that's what the workshop is now and will be From now on, we're not going to talk about Evernote to talk about any of that other stuff, not that it can't be used. It could be but I think people need to understand how to create procedures and just get over the, you know, the awkwardness, the disinclination, whatever it is because everybody has that, that kind of like ah you know, I don't I don't write it down. Now. I'll do it later. Well, if you don't do it at the moment, you're doing the thing. It's less likely you'll do it later. And it's also less likely you'll record it as well as you will if you're doing it while you're doing something. So I'm glad that you have Appreciate it sweet process, I have definitely come to appreciate it as well. And in fact, I'm getting ready to hire a virtual assistant service, which I've done in the past. And there's one that a fella named Ari mysel, who I think is a genius in the world of automation and outsourcing. He's been recommending, so I decided to check it out. And the thing is, in the past, when I have not succeeded with virtual assistants, it's been mostly my fault. Because I didn't define how the job should be done. But now that I've been using sweep process so intensely, I'm like, Oh, no, not before we start, I'm gonna have all that stuff documented. And then whatever I haven't documented, that's going to get documented before it's assigned. And of course, I know, then that that person will do it exactly the way I want it done. Whereas that wasn't the case. Before I use we process so sweet process, or, you know, whatever tool you want to process to eat is its competitor. But whatever tool you use, if it's a dedicated tool for documenting procedures and processes, that's your golden ticket to outsourcing and delegation. So I don't know if you've gotten into that yet. But that would be the next step. I would think,
yeah, I had employees in the past before I joined the firm and that I quit recently. So I plan to retire soon. I'll see. But yeah, the domain difficulty that I found when I hire employees was to tell the employee exactly what to do. And I know you're talking about delegation levels, but when they start the work, and especially if they don't have experience in my, like in my field, immigration, really have to create the detailed procedures. And from Evernote, I did it. But it's hard to, to make modifications to it and to follow through it yourself or to have to reflect to do it yourself. Because that's how you end up refining your systems is by you doing it yourself again, and again. And every time you find some little things to change. And yeah, we're doing on Joyce wood process, I think Ashraf started, was it much earlier?
Yeah. Well, hopefully, you know, you keep at it, I'm sure you will. And it'll, you'll find it to be useful going forward. I mean, it that's another one of those tools that when I talk to people who have used it, they swear by it becomes one of those things that where it's like, this is not optional, I must have some software that lets me do this. And like I said, sweet process is one option, there are others. But to me, the other ones that I investigated either cost more or seem not to be the best options for lawyers. So that's why I decided to go all in on recommending sweet process. So. So let's talk about marketing your practice, like how have you found most helpful to market your practice? Well,
I have an online process. So I have a website. And I have my link, LinkedIn page, Google My Business Facebook page. But I have very little clients who find me directly through their online presence. But I found that this helps a lot with client referrals. So most of my clients come from referrals. And I know usually before they contact me or book an appointment, they go check my website, or check the reviews on Google My Business or read my biography. So I found that really helped. I don't have any other marketing plan. And that's, I think, my weak point that I'm working on it, but every time I'm overwhelmed, I kind of forget about the marketing.
But you said earlier that you are collecting client data at the end getting survey data. Yeah. And you use that to turn those into testimonials.
Now, we were not allowed to publish testimonials in Quebec. So we don't publish any testimonials on the website, but I do get the client feedback through a survey that I sent them and I received a lot of good insight and from time to time, constructive criticism that I know one thing that I can improve the as long as I have positive surveys and that the clients are promoters and I'm not worried about marketing because the word of mouth works well. Although I I know I have to put more effort on marketing.
So is it only the province of Quebec that prohibits the testimonials is it not possible to do that in candidate all
while I am only practicing Quebec so I'm not aware of other provinces in Quebec is strict strictly prohibited
Hmm, that's, that's strange. I mean, I can understand the concern about it's a sensitive topic, right? If people, you know, need to do it well, but oh, you know, testimonial where somebody says, of their own volition and with enthusiasm, I really recommend this person because blah, blah, blah, I don't understand why that's prohibited because it's just truth like you. It's a true fact. There is no, they have a first I don't know, if you have the First Amendment type concept in Canada, maybe you don't. But in the US, you know, that wouldn't fly for first amendment reasons. Okay. But anyway, alright, let's let's shift gears and talk a little bit about, I remember, from your experience, you know, because you're in the copilot program, and you're in slack that you got into the channel called morning pages, I think it's called I call them daily pages. But the idea of writing down your thoughts every day for three pages, let's say and apparently you were doing that you said you got great benefit out of that. Can you share a little bit about how that was helpful to you? Yeah, well,
I was listening to one of your podcasts recently. And you were talking about the daily pages, or the exercise to write three pages, first thing in the morning on the legal pad, or whatever page nonstop of all the thoughts that come to your mind. And also so that, that day, when I heard your podcast, I went to the office, and I just started writing three pages. And I thought it really helps to clear my mind. And he helped to me to process my emotions as well. Sometimes I feel a little bit overwhelmed. And I found that morning pages surprisingly, helped me to be more than and it helped me to be more creative, and to have new ideas and insights that I wouldn't have otherwise thought of. I find it very powerful and perhaps more powerful to meditation. Although I wasn't an avid meditator, I tried to do it. But it was hard to stick to the habit, but it's easier for me to do the morning pages. Yeah,
yeah, I do both. And I have to say, at this point, I've been meditating, like for a really long time. And I feel like meditation is something that you learn to do it when you're in silence by yourself, because it's easier to do it. And plus you confront the fact that your mind is generating all these random thoughts. And you know, unless you can sit still, and observe this, you don't really have experience watching, you're in line. So meditation is good for learning that. But now that I've seen that, and I understand that to be true, I can kind of see that happening. If I'm, you know, in a crowd of people, you know, I can, I can say, Okay, let's monitor my mind. So the idea of monitoring your mind to see the jumpiness of it, that's less important to me than the morning pages. Because the morning pages, I feel like I come away with, you know, calming myself, which is, you know, happens just because you're giving yourself something to do, and you're writing but you're not you don't have to worry about failing, because there's no, there's no objective, it's just write three pages. But then like you, I discovered that in, in doing this, I'd had these thoughts and like, Oh, that's a cool idea. I can make use of that. And also just, you know, being, you know, having those thoughts kind of come out of your head in the morning. Just there's something there's something powerful that I can't explain it. But I know that people who start doing it, a lot of them don't stop because the original intent behind it was Julia Cameron said, Oh, to 12 week program, do it for you know, every day for 12 weeks, and then see what happens. So I've done it that way for 12 weeks, you know, at a time and chunks. And now I don't do it necessarily every day because I don't want to feel like it's a thing I have to do. But I do do it most days because when I wake up after I've meditated or sometimes before I started I'll start having these thoughts about things I think I should do or think about and I just write them down and then those become the jumping off points. It's I can't explain the magic behind it. But I guess we both agree that there is is magic to it somehow.
Yeah, yeah.
I used to stress a lot about the work and and I it's been a while I haven't stressed surprisingly. It reads really helps. And I developed the habit. Now in the morning. Just wake up and I don't know they said to do it the first thing in the morning, I do it when they arrive at my office or so I scheduled like 15 minutes and I just do it and you No, it's great, I incorporate it in my morning routine. And I think I'm going to stick to it for a long time.
There's another book, I forget the name of which I will look up and put in the show notes as well along with Julia Cameron's book, which is called the artists way. But the other book, it's interesting, because when you said you do it, when you get to the office, the thing is, there's multiple ways to do it. And this other book just talks about in terms of the best way to write something is to just dump your brain. And so that, that that book comes at it from like, if you're a writer, and you're going to start writing something, you're not really sure how to start. He says, just write gobbledygook for a couple of pages, until your brain locks in on what you're trying to say. Which I thought, Oh, that makes sense. That's like, take the what I learned in daily pages, and apply that to writing because the hardest part of writing is feeling that burden of like, Oh, I need to structure it, I need to think about what to say here. And you see saying, like, don't do that. Just let your brain dump whatever it has. And that'll get you started faster. And I've discovered That's true. So the morning pages can help you in that way to where the daily pages can help you that way too. Because it's the same thing. You're just taking out a piece of paper and just writing whatever comes to your mind without trying to be precise or organized or any of that stuff.
Yeah, yeah. Just my phone. If I didn't do this exercise every morning, often we'll just start, you know, doing the work, getting the most urgent or the task that has the highest priority, and then I can rush on to the end of the day. And at that point, we're already tired. And, and yeah, that's, that's a great habit.
Cool. I'm glad that you've enjoyed it and appreciate it. So I'm in terms, I guess rap is a good time to wrap up. But let's make sure that I capture like, what, you know, what, what advice would you give if somebody came to you and said, Look, man, I'm thinking of starting my own practice. You know, what, uh, but I'm not sure. And if I do, what would you What would you tell your friend who came to you that way? You know, are there are there some resources? What are the best resources for learning like lawyer groups, besides, you know, my lawyer group, like, what are some other lawyer groups that you know that and if found useful, that you would recommend?
Well, I only took your course. But I will say to talk to other lawyers and learn from the, to get a mentor, join the mastermind group, if possible. With your group is great, your corporate program is helpful, because it's a long term process. And you have to keep improving over time and having someone to to help you or to direct you, like, for example, which software's to use, or how to better manage your time, for example, like, like deep work or time blocking is, like some techniques that it's hard to learn by yourself. And I will also say to avoid doing all the technical stuff, if you can to get help from experts. And don't try to do everything on your own, because your time is precious. And you also have to practice the law. And regarding technology, I would say to avoid distractions, and to improve on what you already have, and already know how to use. That's what I found the most useful, that is out of shiny objects or
solid advice. It is hard to stay away from the shiny objects because you have to balance the desire to improve and to find things that can help you improve with the need to stay focused on the things that matter most. And technology is always creating some new, better, faster, cheaper way of doing amazing things. So it's tricky. Yeah. So where can people find you like, what's what's the name of your website? What's your website domain?
My website domain is the kubek. Visa in one word, and.ca. Okay,
cool. Well, I'll put a link to that in the show notes. And is there you mentioned, you're on LinkedIn so people could find you there if they want to. And do you use social media at all?
I have a Facebook page, but it used to be much easier to find me on my LinkedIn.
Okay. My website. Cool. Well, listen, thank you so much. I really appreciate you sharing your experience your insights, because I know that that will be helpful to other lawyers, I think, you know, I've heard from other lawyers, they've liked these sessions that I've been doing, because it gives them some ways of Thinking about how to create their own practice or how to improve their practice. So thank you for coming on the podcast. I really appreciate it. It's been a pleasure. Thank you for having me.
