Ep. 59: The Social Science of Activism and Storytelling w/ Dr. Tania Lizarazo

7:00PM Aug 20, 2024

Speakers:

Dr. Ian Anson

Dr. Tania Lizarazo

Keywords:

umbc

colombia

interested

disability studies

book

community

women

organization

stories

dr

people

narratives

question

violence

coco

research

choco

thinking

organize

colombian

Ian, hello and welcome to retrieving the social sciences, a production of the Center for Social Science scholarship. I'm your host. Ian Anson, Associate Professor of Political Science here at UMBC. On today's show, as always, we'll be hearing from UMBC faculty, students, visiting, speakers and community partners about the social science research they've been performing in recent times, qualitative, quantitative, applied, empirical, normative, on retrieving the social sciences. We bring the best of UMBC social science community to you as regular listeners to this podcast assuredly know I am the proud dad of a very wild and inquisitive daughter she'll soon turn three, and so this intro serves as a bit of a self serving birthday shout out, in addition to a lead in to today's feature content, in addition to being a deeply silly little person who loves to Run and jump and do all kinds of kid calisthenics. Our daughter has also quickly turned into an incredibly verbal little human being. Go figure the point being that, in addition to all of the fun that my wife and I have chasing after balls, climbing all over the place and jumping on the bed, we're now an audience to a clever and sometimes quite mystifying storyteller.

Our daughter tells us stories about all kinds of things, from the imaginary unicorn that hangs out in the corner of her bedroom to the silly games that her friends play with her at daycare. Occasionally, we hear stories about another kid's transgressions, who threw a block, who spilled her lunch, who had an accident on the playground. At other times, we get to hear about the class's successes, the soup they cooked together, or the butcher paper that they painted, or the tower that they built. As it turns out, stories are fundamental to human connection, even among our youngest, telling stories is a skill that we learn early on. But how do we succeed in telling stories and when we've heard them? How might we serve as conduits to express them to even wider audiences, and can we preserve the story in that complex translational process? These are some of the questions taken up by Dr Tania Lizarazo, associate professor in the Department of Modern Languages, linguistics and intercultural communication. Intercultural Communication here at UMBC. Dr lizzarazo is also affiliated with the Global Studies program at UMBC, and has played a key role in the development of UMBC s new interdisciplinary program in critical disability studies. On today's episode, I speak with Dr lizarazzo about her forthcoming book project entitled post conflict utopias performing everyday survival in the Colombian Pacific. Dr lizzarazo brings us the stories of black women living in choco Colombia and their experiences organizing through a collective known as cocomacia. Let's listen in as we learn about Colombia cocomacia and the social science of activism and storytelling

in today,

Today I am delighted to welcome Dr. Tania Lizarazo to the podcast. Dr. Lizarazo, thank you so much, first of all, for being here today.

Well, thank you for having me.

Awesome. So I want to jump right in. You're talking about your new book today with us, and I'm really excited to delve into this and ask you a bit about the process and a bit about the subject matter as well. And so the new book is about this place in Colombia, right, called Choco. And I looked at the map because I was interested in this. I wanted to know exactly where it was that we were talking about. And so it's essentially bordering Panama to the north, and then it's kind of got this long Pacific coastline, right, kind of on the on the west side of Colombia. And I was really interested in this place, having looked at it on the map and kind of seen it from the sky, right? But I want to know about what it was like to actually go there, and first of all, why you ended up in Choco, of all places, and what was this journey like that led you to choco Colombia?

Sure, so I'll try to start with a little bit of like background information about me that puts this into context. So I grew up in Bogota, that's Columbia's capital, and I'm also part of the racial majority. So the racial majority would be like mixed race people, and I was interested in Colombia's war, but Colombia is a very centralist country, right? So even though, like, I grew up experiencing the violence like urban violence of the 80s and the 90s. It was not until my MA and working with an environmental NGO, that I started like thinking and like actually paying attention to the narratives that were coming from other regions. States in the country, and specifically from rural areas where, like, many racial and ethnic, like minorities are and that have had, like, different experiences of this war. So I think that at some point I was really interested of like, okay, what's the knowledge that I can get about this? Like, beyond the the books that that's that's basically what my source was like to to learn about this. And just like after, after this, and like meeting, like so many local activists in in multiple places, I really connected specifically with a specific group in this place, and I wanted to learn more from them.

Wow. So that's really interesting and just incredible context to understand kind of your personal journey to this and then also kind of academic journey as well, which dovetails with this introduction to this group. And so the book, you know from reading a little bit about this. It centers black women in choco and I think you already mentioned kind of this idea that this book is about ethnic minorities in Colombia and about their experience specifically. But I'm even more specifically interested in this group that I think you were poised to tell us about, which is called Coco Masia. If I'm getting that right. I'm interested in it so it looks like it's an acronym from the basis of the of the term, and I want to know about this organization. So what's it doing, and how specifically do you see black women in this community standing out in your narrative?

Sure, yeah, this is important, so I appreciate you asking the question. So Coco Masia, which means the main Community Council of the integral PESA association of the attracto River. This organization that started just as like PESA association of the attractive river or Asia, is one of the largest black peasant organizations in Colombia, and the administers more than 600,000 hectares of the collective territories of black communities in Colombia that were recognized in 1993 so this is like, Very important in in terms of like, thinking about, like, territorial rights, and this connection that people have, like, with their places of origin that other people, like me, who are like, grow up, like in cities, don't necessarily understand.

So, so if I can just jump in. So is this a government organization then, or is this something a little bit different, right? How exactly does this work in relation to the sort of larger the national Colombian Government?

Yeah, this is a grassroots organization. So it's basically like black peasants that at some point decided, like to get together and like, establish, like, some, some type of organization for decision making. So they have, like, different councils, like related, like to, kind of, like different communities where people live. And there's 124 community councils that are part of, like, this larger organization. So it's, it's huge.

It sounds incredibly vital to these people who are living in this rural area to be able to organize, and like you're saying, this kind of grassroots, bottom up approach to furnishing collective political action. But I'm also interested so obviously this, this group probably figures pretty prominently, given the history of violence and the history that you're describing earlier in the in the discussion. So is this a group that formed in response to this violence, or is it a group that had a role in trying to to help people in this community? Sort of, how does this narrative come together here?

Yeah, I think I mean, part of the of the first violence that they experienced was more in terms of, like, extractivism. So what they started like seeing was like, like, like an exploitation of resources, right? And, and, of course, that was going to affect, like, the way people have been living there. So at first it was kind of like trying to organize against extractivism, but like with time, because in Colombia and in other places, extractivism is just like the first step like, for like displacement, right? And war is one of the ways of, like, displacing people, right? So I specifically collaborate with women in this organization, in part is because, like, as the world and all organizations are very patriarchal, right? And in a way, like I was seeing like all the work that they were, you. Were doing. And I was really interested in their own activism, like for women's rights. But as someone who identifies as a feminist, like I saw that it was like similar and at the same time, like different, and I wanted to learn more about that and and I think that what I was really more interested in was like, no this, like, huge, spectacular activism, which is really important, of like Coco, masses participation in approving this recognition states recognition of collective territorial rights. But I was interested in the everyday practices of these women that contribute to imagining a different kind of world, or like many worlds, alongside violence, alongside extractive capitalism. And I think that was like where my attention went.

Wow. So grassroots organization people coming together to advocate for themselves in this extremely fraught environment where violence is commonplace, where extraction of resources is kind of the name of the game for decades, if not centuries, right? And so what you're telling us is that women are doing these practices on a daily basis that are in some ways forming a kind of resistance to these to these pressures and to these modalities. And so what are some of the practices I want to know, right? What are women doing in this community that stands out to you? Yeah,

I mean, of course, they do a lot of work with with communities, so they travel alongside the Atrato River and other tributaries, which is like the main way of transportation in the area. And they do works on women, workshops on women's rights, and also workshops on territorial rights, and they explain, like, very complicated like legislation to communities. And at the same time, like they know a lot about each community and about their needs, and like they are constantly trying to get grants and other type of like, financial support, like to do projects with the communities. But I think that what I was very interested was, like, also all the things that are happening, like, as they plan for this, and in a lot of this is the type of things that we don't consider as interesting, which is kind of like the waiting, the figure figuring out, like, community care, right? Like, are we going to provide childcare in the workshop? But also, like, how are we going to organize the families and the office of the organization as we have to go to these workshops, and also in the process, like establish like this, like a lot of of collaborations and a lot of networks of care. And I actually feel that every time that I would go there, I would become like, part of like these networks of care, where, like, life just gets more difficult in some ways, but like easier in others, because, like, we are actually taking care of each other and and that's maybe the global part about this, and is that in doing like, other type of research, I realized that they had connections with other people and other places, like within Colombia, but also, like outside of of Colombia and and that was, like, not surprising, but I think it was like fascinating To me, like they're connected to women in black, which is like an anti militaristic feminist organization that that you would would think that it's not necessarily centering like The voices of black women peasants in Colombia. But somehow there's like this, these connections that I thought were like, very interesting.

Wow. So you sort of prefaced a little bit the next question that I wanted to ask you, which is about the process of actually doing this research, and what kind of research methods that you used, what it was like to actually gather the information that you included in your book manuscript, and from what it sounds like, it sounds like you were very much deeply embedded in this community and in this organization during your research. So tell me a bit about the methodological approach and about kind of how you ended up in this role where you're actually sort of CO creating this care network, some fascinating stuff.

Yeah, so I was trained as a historian, so for the I mean, in my undergraduate program, so for the longest time, written sources were the center of like research, and I learned how to work with like primary and secondary sources. But in this, in this work that I did as part of the environmental NGO, I kind of like realized of all this knowledge that was happening outside of books and documents and reports and and there's so much community knowledge. And so one of the things that I think that everyone gets this advice, of like, you need to share something with the community. And every time, like, it seemed like very rude and cruel to be like, Okay, let me share like this thesis, or later during my PhD, like this dissertation written in English. So I'm like, okay, there has to be a better way of like, sharing this knowledge, but also of like contributing to this so that's how I went from like thinking about like ethnography and like doing field work to thinking More about like some type of like collaborative methods. And that included, of course, collaborative ethnography, but also digital storytelling, which is a way of creating audio visual narratives and collaboration with storytellers. And that became also like part of like the the sources that I use, like to talk about these women's experiences, and they can use this, like for advocacy and other ways of like, talking even even about the work in the organization. Wow.

So in terms of this digital storytelling, so is this something that is living somewhere on the web now, or is this a product in motion? What's what's happening with this?

So there we have a website, mujeres pacificas, which means women from the Pacific, but also peaceful women. And we have, I think, 12 narratives from some of my collaborators, and it's basically personal stories that we created together, like more than a decade ago and and I think that at least at the time, it was a good way of like thinking visually and using their own voices like to talk about their their lives.

And what an awesome thing to be able to plug on this podcast, right? Because that site is live, and we'll definitely be including a link to it in the show notes, so that interested listeners can get a chance to see this and to hear some of these stories. I'm also really excited to think about just the way that this conversation continues to resonate with some of the other conversations that we've had here on retrieving the social sciences. We've learned so much from so many of our guests, UMBC scholars and others, about this same dynamic that I think that you're really doing a great job of describing, of bringing a dissertation or a book or something and dropping it on people and saying here this answers all your questions, is not a very productive form of engagement, right? And how cool to think that the product of this research is also not just going to become, you know, it isn't going to become a book. And I think that's great that it also is going to have that scholarly contribution, right? But also is going to go beyond that in this kind of multimodal contribution, the people on the ground will be able to use and to hopefully benefit from in their own collecting, collective action and organizing, right? And so I guess I have a question for you on that front, which is, what's next for this line of research, or for your own kind of research paradigm, given that this book is now pretty close to coming out.

I mean, first I have to say that the book cover was a collaboration with a black Colombian artist, also the collaborators, the storytellers of the book. So I think that that was pretty important for me, too, and I that's what I mean with collaborative ethnography that they have, like, a say, like, at every step, and sometimes, like, they're not super interesting, interested in, in what, what I'm doing, in terms of, like, Schoology presentations, but once in a while, they're like, excited about like something, and they were excited about the cover. So I am super excited that we were able to

that's great, yeah, hopefully we can get a, get an image to put in the show notes as well. Yeah,

yeah, no. And I think it's, I just feel like it's been, like, so long that that we met, and we're still in contact. And I think that's, that's important. For me that the these relationships are not only reciprocal, like during the process of like data collection, but it's a more like investment in in care long term. So I'm working on a book chapter on on extractivism in the Columbia Pacific in the context of the recognition of the attratos Rivers personhood, which, yeah, was like huge in terms of, like, thinking that a river can have rights. And I'm also interested, because of reading about this and also how in working the new minor in critical disability studies, I'm interested in exploring issues of interdependence and and personhood, in terms of like exploring more the connections between Latin American Studies and disability studies, fantastic.

And I'm so glad that you mentioned this, because this was something that I was going to hope that you would plug, perhaps in this episode as well. So as you described right, there's this now, this program in critical disability studies that UMBC is is offering, and from my understanding, it is pretty unique as far as universities go at the present moment. So if you wouldn't mind just taking a second to share with us, kind of the vision for this program, and if there are any student listeners, maybe how they might be able to get involved with the program.

Yeah. So this, this has been like a long, long process of collaboration between, like, faculty, staff and students, and we have, like, such brilliant group of people who have been doing work on disability studies, and everyone thought that was, like, really important to have this, this program, Kimberly Moffitt and Jessica Berman in particular were like the ones who started this conversation, and then with, like, a large group of people working in decisions, we were able to identify, like, all the classes on Disability Studies at UMBC, which are a lot, and we have a new introductory class that is going to be over next fall, for 2025 but it's exciting. It's already available, so people can register and, of course, contact me if you have any questions about minor

wonderful Well, you heard it here first, and if you're interested in this, definitely reach out, because I think that it's really an incredible innovation and something that really sets UMBC apart. Dr Tanya lizzarazo, thank you so much for talking to us today before we let you go. I have one more question that I always ask anyone who has some kind of student facing role when we talk to them on the podcast, and that is, if you have any advice, whatever, how big or small it might be for any students that might be interested in going pro, in doing research, like the research that you do,

such a good question. So I would say, like being open to learning from different fields and methods, but also learning from the communities that you're interested in and and I think for me, it's always useful to ask the question of, like, Who benefits from this research that I'm interested in, and like, who am I accountable to? I think it's important to think about like, Who benefits from our research and our writing, and who are we aligning with?

Who benefits from research? Indeed, well, I will say that we certainly benefited from getting to hear about your research today. Dr Tanya lazarezzo, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. All best wishes as you continue this project. And for those of you listening along, please do check the show notes to see some more about this awesome project, and to especially check out the digital narratives that are that are available online.

Thank you so much again, this was exciting.

Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. I hope you gained as much an appreciation as I did for the work of Coco Masia, the women who are featured in Dr Liz Ross book, and the careful approaches of social scientific work that effectively carry stories from places like Chaco Colombia to the scholarly public and back again. I hope that this episode gives you new insight into how to listen to more stories, and that, as always, you keep questioning,

Retrieving the social sciences is a production of the UMBC Center for Social Science scholarship. Our director is Dr Christine Mallinson. Our associate director is Dr Felipe Filomeno, and our undergraduate production assistant is Gene Kim. Our theme music was composed and recorded by DeJuan Moreland. Find out more about CS three at socialscience. Dot, UMBC, dot E. Edu and make sure to follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and YouTube, where you can find full video recordings of recent CS, three sponsored events until next time, keep questioning you.