SOTN2023-10 Internet From Space! Who Is LEO Internet For?

9:53AM Mar 12, 2023

Speakers:

Rebecca Heilweil

Jonathan Cannon

Darren Achord

Keywords:

satellites

systems

technology

customers

operating

space

people

spectrum

fcc

continue

internet

low altitudes

low earth orbit

government

industry

sharing

area

constellations

curious

case

Hi, everyone, thanks so much for coming, I think we're going to get started. So my name is Rebecca Heilwell, I'm a member in emerging technology reporter. So this panel is titled Internet from space to services fit into the mix. So the reason why we're doing this panel is because we're basically entering a new era of space Internet. Right now, we're increasingly hearing about accessing Internet connection from space, and particularly from satellites and satellite constellations in low Earth orbit. So you know, satellite Internet itself isn't particularly new, we've been accessing Internet via satellite on planes for a really long time. But now we're hearing about it a lot more particularly because of companies like SpaceX, OneWeb, Amazon, getting really, really into this, as well as companies like T Mobile, and Apple also getting involved in satellite connection. At the same time, we're also hearing about governments also getting involved in this too, including Taiwan, the European Union and China. So we're here to talk about what the case for this technology is, where it where it stands now, and also just how it works. So maybe before we start, I'd like our panelists to introduce themselves if that if that sounds alright.

So hi, everyone, my name is Jonathan cannon, I'm with the R Street Institute. So I was asked today to join the panel to discuss something that I think is one of the most promising and exciting new technological innovations in the broadband industry. I mean, when we think of broadband, we think of traditional fiber optic network and you know, literally having lines of fiber from home to home to connect people to the rest of the world. And this is something that completely changes that paradigm, in a really novel and exciting way. And you know, it may not necessarily be the most new. But I think we're finally beyond the proof of concept phase to this really being a meaningful technology that really can transform how we can act interact with each other. So I'm really excited discussion today.

Plus one of those comments, Darren Achord with Amazon, Director of connectivity, public policy, my team and I support all connectivity policy related to Amazon, how our businesses connect how our customers connect. And that also includes supporting projects hyper, our low, low earth orbit, I should say, Leo, from now on our low Earth orbit satellite constellation. Great.

So maybe we can just start with the basics for people who sort of know how satellite Internet works. Can you explain how to do these Leo constellations are different from what we've had in the past what is so exciting or promising about this technology? Now, and sort of start from there?

Okay, I'll start. So I think the big the big difference, first of all, is in the name, low earth orbit, the low altitudes that these systems operate at. So for example, Project Cuypers altitudes are approximately at 600 kilometers, which is much lower to the earth compared to your traditional geostationary satellite systems, by 1000s, of kilometers. And so what that equates to is much higher speeds, much lower latency and better reliability. Because of the lower altitudes, because of multiple satellites into view, not just one satellite, or a few satellites, operating at a much higher altitude. And so with those low altitudes, with the capabilities in Leo, that also leads to better reliability, to provide a much better customer experience. What do you think of satellite broadband? I think that that's where you see the differences of Aleo system and the experience that the customers will have.

So we're talking about, you know, like hundreds and 1000s of satellites, as opposed to a handful.

Right? For us, specifically, will have approximately 3200 satellites. And that's a big difference where I think, as you noted, in your article, explaining some of this, where a GNSS system, you'll have one satellite or a small number, staying in one place, whereas a Leo system has multiple satellites, revolving around the earth and different altitudes, different orbits, in order to ensure better coverage, and better use of the spectrum resources.

Can you explain maybe, Jonathan, if you want to chime in here, like why this would be particularly helpful or why you think this is necessary?

Yeah, I mean, so the use case that I always love, and obviously, it's a more extreme one is you take some of like the North Slope and Alaska, I mean, this area is covered in permafrost. So it's geographically impossible just due to the vast distances, but also just the geography and the topography of the area. You cannot lay fiber in these communities. So these communities are dependent on alternative means of connectivity and communication. So Elio really changes the game here because you They're offering competitive products at competitive broadband prices using this network of low latency, high speed Internet, without, you know, any optic cable going to the home. You know, right now a lot of these communities rely on these outdated, like geostationary satellites, with these massive dishes in these towns to pay hundreds of dollars for sub broadband speeds.

Yeah, and I'll just chime in on that, I think the remote location is a great use case, with the number of satellites, you the the coverage area that you can reach on the globe, and combined with the low altitudes, equates to all the benefits I talked about earlier, but in these remote locations, which may not have that level of service now. And also, because of the altitude, our satellites compared to a traditional satellite, it's a smaller been hitting the ground. And so that's a more efficient use of the spectrum, and can enable more capacity for a system which is incredibly important in those remote locations that we can reach that are beyond the reach of your traditional wired and wireless networks.

So I'm curious if you guys could talk a little bit about the transportation applications, because it seems like a lot of what we're hearing about right now, what satellite Internet is not, you know, just like people in their houses, but people traveling and RVs on cruises planes and things like that. Is that something that you're looking at? Can you talk about that?

Yeah. So I mean, one thing that you hear a lot of is, you know, I think it was stalling to announce that they now have a terminal that you can put on a boat, as you know, you can be out in the middle of the ocean on a large vessel with hot, fast, high speed broadband Internet. But even on plans now, you know, we're used to having to pay a crazy amount of money for really slow Wi Fi that can barely load emails to having, you know, regular broadband Internet connection, where some countries we've been going so far as to removing the restrictions on taking phone calls and plans. That's for another panel. But you know, just this rapid real time communication anywhere on the globe, in a way that we've just never seen before. It's really quite something.

Yeah, I agree. I think you can apply to all use cases, whether it's commercial airlines, maritime customers operating over the ocean, as a really good use case where, you know, the satellites will be beaming up ocean, so to speak. And so that's plenty of capacity and capabilities over the oceans that airlines can use that maritime customers can use various use cases, in those locations, as well as connecting, you know, remote vehicles in rural areas.

So one of the things I've certainly been curious about, and I think some people are interested in as well is, you know, there was an effort in the 90s to create like Bo, satellite Internet constellations, and it sort of petered out and failed. I'm curious, what changed? Why is this happening now, what has happened that sort of makes this possible?

First, I think the three of us maybe were elementary school or high school in the 90s. So we might not be the best people to provide that historical perspective. But as I understand it, I think you're we're kind of at an inflection point of technologies and beating up where the innovations and capabilities on the satellites, they're much better performing. It's also cheaper to produce them than in years past. The innovations that we're seeing the customer terminal, the device that a consumer or a business will have at its location, or seeing much better technology there. For example, we invented a new antenna for the type of spectrum that we use, that reduces the size of the terminal, so that it will be cheaper to produce and easier to install. And so we're, we're just continuing to see those innovations in the on premise equipment. And then the cost of getting to space is much cheaper. We're seeing advancements in that industry, you know, Ula, SpaceX, et cetera, Aryans, Boston, Europe. You know, all I think those things are combining to where it's the technology, meeting the capabilities in the sector at the right time.

Yeah, I mean, I think you touched on all the big pieces, but you know, the fact that there is this amazing commercial space race happening, so not only do you have this massive innovation in terms of the you know, the technology of the satellites themselves, but rockets that can deploy 50 to 100 satellites at a time, and that, you know, capability and capacity is only increasing. So, you know, again that with more satellites, and we're gonna know what to do with

Yeah, so I'm, I'm curious about how you would explain how satellite Internet we should be thinking about it compared to fiber, which is what a lot of people looking at this automatically think of what are what how does this sort of compared to that in terms of benefits and drawbacks in terms of speed and latency and things like that?

So I mean, my My thing is, how I perceive things is as technology evolves in this distinction between fixed fiber while and wireless is becoming so blurred now. You know, in all the use cases, fiber still is the best and most efficient way of connecting in black cities and suburban areas. But again, in these areas where that's not necessarily a practical thing, I don't think one technology should be favored over another. You know, we have panels today, and we've heard from the NTA, Secretary about the innovation and you know, the massive investment in broadband. They're not sharing that vision of neutrality, they're not sharing that vision of applications, like Elio that really can transform and have a profound impact on how we get connected.

We see it as a compliment. I think, as Jonathan said, there's a place for fiber, there's a place for wireless satellite, if you take a step back, everything Amazon does relies on connectivity, everything our customers do rely on it connectivity. So whatever way providers can reach the customers, we're behind. And so that is why we favor, you know, tech neutrality we want as much being provided to consumers as possible. And we think satellite systems, particularly Leo systems, can complement those wired and wireless networks, especially where customers are beyond the reach of those traditional networks.

Are there any applications that you think this is really not right for that maybe satellite Internet, you know, isn't isn't the best option?

I don't, I don't want to speculate, but I think the urban use cases, I think, you know, where cities are wired, where cities have fiber already. I think at the end of the day, you know, the capabilities are there to where I think satellite can be a complement a better complement in rural and remote locations.

Yeah, sounds good. I'm curious if you can talk about how many people you anticipate. You know, if this really does take off, and we're still kind of in very early days of this technology, I'm curious how many people you anticipate using this in in the long term? I know Starlink has about a million customers signed up for it service? How many? How many people could use satellite Internet if everything's successful?

Short answer is I don't know, I think we have visiting. We envision serving millions of customers around the globe. Think same for Starlink. If you take a step back, I think it will. Solving the customers that need connectivity will require more providers require more than Starlink more than Khyber. So it's important that we continue implementing policies and FCC rules that support that, and I enable more providers to come online so we can reach all of the millions that need connectivity.

And I think, you know, the only thing to add is just as the technology improves, I mean, the way that we can interface with the technology, you know, if you have mobile devices that are able to connect the satellites directly, that's gonna be transformative to the number of users that you can have, and how far reaching that connectivity can be.

Yeah, I'm, I think another sort of, you know, the case that a lot of people make for this technology is that it's going to serve rural areas, underserved areas, what is the plan to make sure it's affordable to people who live there, in these regions that aren't being served right now or aren't getting, you know, Internet speeds that are usable for today's you know, the way we use Internet today.

For us, specifically, I think, as a starting point, low prices is in our DNA, and a priority for Kuyper just as part of Amazon, we will, our goal from day one has always been to launch an affordable service. We haven't announced price specifics yet, you know, we're not operating. But where we have focused on innovating and bringing the cost down is with the customer terminal, the device that a customer, whether it's me and my house of business, or whoever the customer might be, will have on premises, one of the challenges with these systems in the past has been the cost the upfront cost of that device, because it's so high tech. And we have focused on bringing that down. So as I mentioned, we invented a new antenna for this type of terminal. It's a third of the size of existing antennas that are out there. And that will equate to smaller size, easier installation, you know, the size equals cheaper to produce at scale. We think those cost savings can be passed on to the customer. So for us, that's really where we've been focused on. We know the need is there, but how do we make it to where consumers can adopt it? I just don't have access.

And the only thing I'd add is just I think competition is gonna be a huge driver for that as well. I mean, there's so many now, entrants breaking into the space that you know, that's going to have an impact on costs. I mean, everyone's gonna want to be competitive and offer the best product for the best price

Yeah, I'm curious if how many providers you think there's sort of enough room for in this market? Obviously, you know, SpaceX OneWeb, Amazon are getting into this, do you see an upper limit on how many companies could really be offering this?

There's room for multiple providers is our view.

I mean, the only thing I'll say is there's only so much room in space, you know, there's gonna be room for the satellites. But again, as the technology improves, I think that will remedy a lot of that concern.

Yeah. So I think a lot of people here are probably interested in some of the regulatory challenges that are raised by this technology. Maybe to start I'm curious, sort of on your view of how we should go about regulating this kind of technology where, you know, we have different countries have their own regimes for regulating communications technologies, but you know, spaces sort of every every country sort of has a claim to space, if it were and I'm curious how we should be thinking about that, who should be in charge of regulating these technologies, when you have, you know, the FCC here, but certainly other agencies elsewhere that might have their own sort of inclinations on what that policy here should be?

Yeah, I think the challenge is just again, this being so new, there really isn't like a clear regulatory paradigm. I mean, the FCC, obviously, he's done a lot with communications technology. And, you know, they've kind of positioned themselves to be the person to regulate this new technology, you know, the standing up a new space Bureau, it'd be interesting to see kind of how that evolves and develops, but I think they're still trying to figure out what they can do within their existing statutory authority. And obviously, Congress is looking at this heavily, they've already had two hearings, and then I'll be pursuing different pieces of legislation to really see what they can do to allow this technology to flourish with hopefully a light touch approach.

Yeah, it's a big question of, you know, in the US and abroad, we feel like that, inherently satellites operate in with shared spectrum, and in space and shared resources. And so that has to be taken into account in terms of how we're approaching regulations, what rules we're setting in place. We are hopeful that, you know, regulators can play a role in terms of convening stakeholders, and working collaboratively to set norms set standards that the industry can operate under. So we think the FCC has taken great steps on rules in the area of spectrum coordination, critically important for these systems, and an area where clarity is needed. And as well with the space Bureau, the Office of International Affairs that Chairwoman Rosenworcel has set up bringing attention to these issues internationally, where the US needs to play a leading role at the ITU. And we are hopeful that the US government will continue to prioritize the satellite sector at the ITU and other international forums. We've seen it on Capitol Hill, we see that the FCC, there's bipartisan interest in the satellite industry, we want to make sure the US government is supporting the sector, internationally. To your point, you know, with both spectrum and space, it's shared resources. And so we need to make sure that one the FCC continues to play a leading role. And then to globally I think if we can have norms, rules that are scalable, and the same as much as possible, I think that will benefit systems that have to operate globally and use shared resources.

I just want to highlight we will be taking some audience questions in a moment. If you're thinking of anything you want to ask the panelists. I'm curious if you know about your views on the FCCs new space Bureau, which is sort of still being set up. But what do you see as the unanswered questions that need to be addressed by the FCC in terms of satellite Internet? What are what are the things that do need more clarity, though sort of gesture to that, since this is such a kind of new new service for a lot of people?

Sure. We really, really appreciate the steps that Chairwoman Rosenworcel has taken with the space Bureau and the Office of International Affairs. Again, to repeat myself, I think calling attention to the issues at the ITU in the US and prioritizing the sector, we think is very valuable, and will be helpful for leaders US leadership in this area. One key area for us where we would like more clarity and the rules. To Jonathan's point, the sector has innovated very quickly. There are no rules currently for sharing spectrum between new around newer licensed systems like hyper and previously licensed systems, Starlink, OneWeb, and others. There are rules for sharing spectrum when you're licensed together and have the same rights. I don't want to get into the weeds of the FCC licensing system. But when you have new systems coming online and newer systems like us, or systems coming in after us, there's not clear rules for how you're supposed to coordinate spectrum. Other than previously licensed systems have priority, which is understandable, they made investment back decisions, investment back designs, they need their operations protected. Absolutely. But for systems like Piper and others that come behind us, we have to protect them. And that doesn't necessarily lead to incentives and coordination, or doesn't necessarily lead to good technical standards and, and how you share the spectrum. So we would just like to see more clarity there, the FCC has started a rulemaking, comprehensive rulemaking is underway on Spectrum sharing rules for Leo and GSO systems, we think it's a great step in the right direction, and want to see that continue moving forward. Because I think there's a number of issues in there, whether it's sharing spectrum, information sharing that you provide to others, what type of information that is, all of those things, will be valuable to sharing this resource.

And, you know, from from the other side, more of the space sustainability and the space debris issue is, you know, as Amazon noted, you know, they're planning a constellation of about 3000, satellites, that competitors are planning much larger constellations. And, you know, when we're putting, you know, double, triple, even tenfold the number of bodies in space than we currently have. And that's just within the US, that's not even talking about what you know, China or other countries could do. And there's no kind of international police and there's no one can say, No, China, you can't launch because America already has satellites. So these are kind of very real issues that, you know, a global stage will need to address and identify. And this is not something you know, the US can handle alone, but we can have a great sustainable way of deploying, you know, competitive constellations in space. But that doesn't mean China's not going to put things out there to try and crash into AWS. So you know, it's something that we're really gonna have to deal with head on. And I think that's gonna be something that we're gonna really have challenges with, but I think we can do it.

Yeah, I'm curious about both of your views on the prospects of, of effectively regulating the challenge of space debris, which just to fill, anyone who's not familiar in is, you know, the, you put more and more satellites into orbit, there's also rocket parts flying around, they're really high speeds, incredibly dangerous, not just to other infrastructure in low Earth orbit, but also potentially to astronauts, people living aboard the International Space Station, other space stations, and what is the prospect for solving that problem, especially as the industry continues to put more stuff up there? Is it responsible to do that? Given that, it seems like we're still figuring out sort of international solution to, you know, basically, the this environmental challenge in low Earth orbit?

I think systems can deploy responsibly. You're absolutely right. I mean, the two key issues here for operating access to spectrum access to a safe operating environment in space, it's in everyone's best interest to deploy and operate safely, in order to decrease risk of the incident or debris. And that has been a priority for Mars for us. Since day one, just as we designed our system. You know, how we selected our altitudes, at heights that would ensure we could actively even rapidly deorbit if needed, the design of our satellites, having active propulsion on board. So we can be orbit them. Protection of systems such as coverings on fuel sources, or other vital systems to the to the satellite, where if there was an object, you can handle the collision, mitigate any debris. And including just how we operate, I think we will conduct extensive testing on the ground. As I've heard the head of our business say there is no repairman in space. So you've got to make sure that what you're launching works and is fully functioning. And so we are conducting extensive testing on the ground. Once they're launched, we'll test them extensively before we raise them into their orbits, and then make sure they're working there as well. And as a part of that, we need to share the data and how we do it. We need to know what we're learning from our system. We need to provide that with other operators. Hopefully, they provide that as well. We need to be sharing information on how is our system operating, how is their system operating to ensure that we're making best use of the resource, the more information sharing we have, we can have I think the better to ensure that we're all operating in a responsible manner.

Now, is there anything I'd add is just you know, it's kind of proof you know, everything that's been said, you know, this isn't theoretical anymore. This is a real technology that is you know, going up in space. And you know, these companies you know, ultimately want to have custom does not want to have a successful product. So it's in everyone's best interest to make sure that it's working efficiently. And what well, and from a global perspective is really it's ensuring that that framework is reflected. You know, and the systems complement each other rather than, you know, kind of working agnostically antagonistically towards one another.

Yeah. So one of the last sort of regulatory questions I want to ask you or less, or at least a government question is, I'm curious what you would say to people who are I'm not necessarily critics of this industry, but say it's still very early, should the government be provided, you know, subsidizing this industry to provide, you know, Internet access to communities that are underserved has this, is there enough proof that this works so that the government should actively be providing funding to it? Like I said, Starlink has about a million customers right now. We're still waiting on Amazon to launch its first sort of satellites. Is this? Is this ready for, you know, the government to step in and actually provide support for it? Given that that's, that's a big part of how we address the digital divide in the United States is just government government grants.

Yeah, I mean, I think it goes back to a both their echoed is, you know, tech neutrality is critical. You know, if we're making the biggest single time investment in broadband, we shouldn't be focusing on any one particular technology. And I think, you know, the use case for this has been proven time and time again. But, you know, I think there's other use cases as well, that maybe aren't necessarily as discussed as often. You know, in disaster situations, you know, that you can rapidly deploy these networks. You know, people lose connection after like a hurricane or something, you can have terminal sets up on the ground, and almost in real time, people are reconnected back to the Internet. But we've never been able to do anything like that before. And I think that kind of application is really gonna be transformative.

Yeah, I agree on the, you know, we're sort of a technology neutral approach, you know, what makes the most sense for the consumer and getting that technology out in the most efficient Manager? Manager manner, if possible? You know, we haven't participated in funding, but I, it is a fair question. public resources are being committed toward helping these systems and whatever that's technology solution. It is. And so, you know, the ability to meet the standards and the ability to provide service that are expected into those programs. It's, you know, it's a good question, and I think a fair priority for the government to have.

Great, so I'm about to take a call for questions. But I'll ask you. One closing question I have is just what is, you know, the biggest hurdle that you see to this right now that you're sort of hoping to solve in the next few years. And also, what is the milestone that you know, again, on a similar timeframe you're most looking forward to is sort of the next step for satellite Internet and low Earth orbit constellations.

I will speak for Kuyper the most critically important thing for us right now we would like to see the FCC move forward with its spectrum sharing proceeding. The FCC has taken a number of steps, and I compliment Chairwoman Rosenworcel all three commissioners. It's been on a bipartisan basis, both to provide access to more spectrum for legal systems, but also to move this rulemaking forward on sharing. We would like to see that continue. More broadly, we would like to see the US government support the satellite sector at the ITU international forums and support it, along with the other technologies not favor other technologies over satellite. We think US leadership in this sector is critical milestone for Kuyper it's an exciting time here. In the coming months, we will launch our first two satellites. We've announced our proto flight missions will be launched from Florida on United Launch lines, rockets, we will send up two satellites, we will test our capabilities both on the satellite and in our ground systems. And so that's that's exciting for us. I mean, we started this in 2019 got our FCC license in 2020. And here we are sending two satellites up into space, a big milestone as we get closer to full scale deployment and connecting customers.

Yeah, I mean, just, you know, this is a real thing. This is happening. So I mean, I see all the things that Darren reflected. But you know, US leadership, I think really is paramount importance here. You know, China doesn't necessarily share the same regard for some of the space sustainability and other issues. And if that Sawflies crashed into American satellites, like too bad, so sad. So, you know, we really want to push forward and advocate for strong international leadership, but also recognizing that this is a realistic option. It's a viable option. It's a strong alternative. And you know, we shouldn't shy away from using it and reflecting it as part of our, you know, with our funding mechanisms with in the most remote areas where we know we're never going to be able to reach them with fiber. I mean, this is a solid way to get people connected. You know, this isn't just this miracle small Old use case, system. I mean, this is transformative technology that I think has the potential to really change how we interact with one another. So I'm excited to see where it goes.

Okay, maybe people want to raise their hands with question. Okay, maybe I'll start with a gentleman in the red shirt and we'll go this way.

The star late is seeing the devil on the speeds of US dropped by one cent. Is that as it is, was CD man's a CD with ASCII? What steps are you taking to assure that the iPad is not all as a pap?

Sorry, I'm not aware of starlings issues. But I think for us, just making sure that we're planning our deployment, right, and accounting for customers use cases, as we scale and making sure that things are satellites, customer terminals, ground infrastructure, are all fully operational, to make sure that as we add satellites and add capacity, that we're meeting that customer demand

will allow the light heartedness of Allah tower. Five, curious about a bigger issue here. And so do us actually signed by daiquiri rights. And there's part of that says access to information even right, now that you have scuppered in the back of the business of back then human rights again, online. Should we be subsidizing Internet access in places where it's shut down, whether it's the world's caught shut down aerobic here at Indiana tax, TV and Ally continue to deplete or those that are not zatia cumulative Venezuela around Him or else, which she all i rushing for Biver. Huge to shut that battle, which you think that it would make sense for us as a country to be subsidizing services, which would not and limit access to our allies? For instance, as startling? Here's the keeping crazier.

Do you want to start Darren? It's a big question. But it's certainly an a really important question.

Yeah, it's a good question. And I think, an inherently global system, we have to get licenses to operate in countries around the world. You raise a very good question on restricting access to information. I think we are taking that into account as we look at what countries we will operate in, and making decisions that ensure we offer the best service for our customers, while complying with the necessary laws and regulations and not operating in areas that may restrict

how would they stop? It which say if you said we're gonna give full access to open up Dr. systems as a discretion of our boundaries, Jeff, nice to sync that to blue light DEP sweetie at so there'll be the ones with would you say refuse to filter out information

after repressed and loaded up?

It's a good question. I don't know, we're not operating yet. We don't have a license in India. We're not being asked that. And so I think it's a hypothetical factors that we may face. Okay.

Jonathan, do you want do you have a sort of position on whether the government, the US government should be funding these kinds of networks to operate and more authoritarian regimes that do censor Internet access to this be a tool?

Yeah, I mean, I can't speak to any one technology or what US policy as far as building out networks in other countries or, you know, pushing and promoting the rights and access to information, I think, you know, we do value that information sharing, and I think it is important that everyone on the planet have access to Internet service. But obviously, there's geopolitics at play that can sometimes make that difficult or prohibitive. But you know, I think, importantly, you know, the the value of this technology short term as helping, you know, Americans that don't have this necessarily, restriction and lack of access, will feel like they're getting Internet shut down. They just don't even have the ability to connect. And I think that's something you know, the US government can more readily address on a short timeframe.

Are there any other questions?

Great. Well, the second Sure. You guys book talks a lot about they're asked a lot and they're doing for about three days. She stated we do be up here we got a way to make one which Thank you. Do you prefer the added reverse speaking becames? I didn't see it. Do you? I never really thought or face your English guy to see you have a dark rolls when it was at play web apps. This ability really floats up in the better seat fears of us hope or green?

I mean, I don't think we should necessarily preclude any one option. I mean, this all relies on comity between different nations. But I think you know, one country having leadership and pitching something that other countries will abide by, I think is a critical piece. Nothing that should be one, you know, limited to one vehicle. But at the same time, you don't want to have overly prescribed regulation that could stifle innovation and roll out the industry either.

I was just said, we want the US to play a leading role. I think the innovation and leadership you're seeing in the sector is largely by two US companies. And we are we want collaboration to continue. Yeah, we've had active conversations, were part of the dialogue with all the forums, you reference, the Paris Peace Forum as well, within the space sustainability is a big priority there. So we just want to see that collaboration continue. So norms can be developed amongst all forms that are involved in the process. And make sure that industry, excuse me, the regulatory bodies continue to play that convening role for industry.

Okay, I think well, maybe take two more questions. I know you put your hand up earlier.

Yeah. Staying on the international aid for a moment. And good day countries, say a small island developing country, and it's not being certified fiber optics they didn't even believe was led. What ingredients need to be there for them to get to tissue belies things and then by this, is it more of a spectrum regulation, just a federal orbit half covering eat some parts of the globe? And other what are the theoretically?

I think you've touched on a couple of them there. I think a remote island country, or State is a great use case for satellite systems for Leo systems in particular. Depending on where it is, geographically, excuse me, geographically located. Yes, so the orbits could play a role. But you should be able, most of us are, at least for Kiper, we can cover 95% of the Earth's population. And so another piece would be, is the infrastructure there on the ground, such as a satellite Gateway Station, in order to receive an order to connect to the Internet? Or is there somewhere nearby that you can connect back to the Internet? So I think in terms of, yes, you would need a license, but also need to look at the infrastructure capabilities. But the use case you bring up is a really good one. And really ideal for a system like Starlink or hyper

preach, I just want to follow up on that chapter piny. Beneath this thing, content structure, y'all have this dedicated, severs a pocket should when he sent Putin billion this patch was being interacted a user or up to client need require 50 IQ reviewed wireless as well. And

our system will be direct to user in terms of the customer terminal at the home at the business. Wherever you're on premises. We're seeing, obviously, we have you know, we're hearing and seeing agreements about direct to cell, the FCC starting a rulemaking on that. And so I think it's another example of the continued innovation in the sector. And we're, you know, looking forward to the rulemaking and seeing how it plays out. But I think it's, again, just another positive use case example that's becoming possible now.

Great. Well, I think that was the last question, but thank you all for coming. This was so interesting, and thank you so much to our panelists. It's great to check in on this technology.