As a woman, I wanted to talk about women's life, by law against women, then like, eventually you're talking about the government not being good.
I mean, while they were in my personal life,
I'm going to talk about is going to be not actually shade. You're just limiting so much that become you are not able to talk about anything at all.
Quite often artists use their own work to demonstrate their innermost thoughts, feelings, concerns, or to just create a dialogue. But sometimes there are barriers that are put up that prevent people from saying what they really think and feel. This is random acts of knowledge presented by Heartland Community College. I'm your host, Steve fast. Today we're talking with an Iranian artist who has collected an exhibit of more than 50 artworks created by women in Iran, the government of Iran limits to things that many women can do by theocratic and national law. Today's guest talks about how that affected her life, and how it affects the lives of women whose art is exhibited in this show.
I am Siobhan ohada. I'm a gallery coordinator at my colleague gallery at Heartland Community College
starboard. Tell me a little bit about yourself, your background and how you came to be the gallery Coordinator here at Heartland Community College's art gallery.
I came to the US in August 2018. As a student, I graduated from ISU last May, with my MFA focusing on painting, then I find here as an opportunity to continue my I can say education I'm still learning and working was.
So where did you come from before you came to ASU in this area? What was your journey before that?
I am from Iran. I lived her all my life in Iran until the age of 33. And then I came here to study and change my life. Basically, I came here as a student. But it was more than that. For me, there were there were a few things that are really I needed to change. The first thing was like, I was not satisfied in my life as a woman in Iran. And as an artist. And when I came here, I was recently got divorced, which was really hard on me because it's not socially accepted. And unfortunately, the way society works under dictatorship, as you are key government, they put some kind of shame and guilt for such things like divorce. I remember I couldn't talk about it. And I, I felt I needed a change. And this was a very, very good change. At the time, I didn't know, I just wanted to say I want a new start. And I came here and everything changed more than I expected to I had the opportunity to work I had a studio and be focused on art, which I love to that's what I wanted to. But I noticed my life change, I noticed I feel better to society have less pressure on me as a woman. And I was more appreciated. I felt like I am seen as an artist as a woman. And whatever i i do is more appreciated. There are other like stuff as a lifestyle too. For example, in my country, his job is mandatory doesn't matter what you feel what you believe it's law. And the fact that you come out of home, you go to the society with the clothes you don't like you don't believe in, it was not easy. Like it sounds very small. But like every day you deal with that, it becomes so big and such it is such a difference in lifestyle. I really feel better. And I hope one day in my country, all the men can have the same in their own homeland in the place. They like it culture they appreciate and within their family among their family and friends. But now, that's the life we have. So
when you were practicing your art in Iran, did you find that you were aware of any kind of limitations on what you could do, what you could explore the way that you worked, how you might be received, talk a little bit about how you felt as an artist in Iran,
like art is so limited in Iran, especially for women. I'm not a singer, but like, very, very, I think, what part is like if women cannot sing that that's illegal music or art is going to be limited. An artist, author, poet, all of them are kind of under limitation because whatever use you say, it's against the government, then the government, whatever you say it becomes political and Okay, me as a woman, I want wanted to talk about women's life, but law against women, then like, eventually you're talking about the government not being good. I mean, whatever in my personal life I'm going to talk about is going to be not appreciated and just limiting so much that become you are not able to talk about anything at all.
So when you came to Heartland Community College and had an opportunity to curate the work at the gallery here, the art gallery, one of your first projects was to bring some Iranian artists for this exhibit called being a woman, how did you reach out to them? How did you describe what you were attempting to do? Was that a challenge?
In my own practice, like as a painter all the time, I was talking about being a woman how, how our life is different from men, like as a second citizen, and second class citizen, I should say, and all of the issue I had during my life, then I had an opportunity to collaborate to ask other artists to talk and like he was to other people. I designed an open call. And I actually approached too many of the artists like through the people I knew. And like I explained what was my pen, and I can say many artists like my idea, and like, we have 50 artists in our show. And they actually end up using a student gallery as well. To be able to show more point of views more artists, I decided, I'm gonna choose different kinds of points of view, like I had some art some pieces that basically I chose, because they show day to day life of a woman like how they dress how they appear in the street, like some colorful dress of young women, like I try to appreciate and like show different aspects of a woman life in Iran. But it's not that I can not see how awful and hard it is. And there are different aspects, and maybe not all of the artists we have in the show, think about that. And some of them are focused on like, motherhood, and that's part of life. But the things that bothered me are law and how systematically and legally women are oppressed. Like they don't have any law to go to, for example, if a woman is in is in a hurt situation, and they ask for help, most of the time they help doesn't come from law, like you have to find your own way or, or suffered through like, recently, I was looking at how many femicide we have in my country. Like in my country, the number are not clear. They don't show the number they don't want people to know. But like one by one, I saw many women that were burned, like, the husband decided, Oh, I'm not satisfied with this, like, I'm going to burn the lady like it just kind of expendable, like, it's so it's a human like people are easily forget, because the law is against the women. And now the poor lady, probably die soon, doesn't have any anything to do. And the parents cannot do much either.
When you approach these artists, and most of them, as I understand, still live in Iran. Were any of them reluctant to submit their artwork? Did you have to search for those that would be more open for the artwork, whether it had any kind of political angle or reflection in that way? Even if it was just a depiction of their everyday life? Did you find any discomfort amongst the artists you approached? Not at
the beginning, like at the beginning, mostly, that was exciting. Oh, that's an opportunity to show to be an artist. But during the read after everyone signed the contract, and after the show was actually hung, like I printed the word all of the art pieces are printed locally, like we received their files, I printed everything and I hung the show and then two of the artists were all of a sudden change okay, we don't want to be in the show. I said, Okay, I'll be the like install the show, which shows the hours in relation to each other install them is not a time for saying I changed my mind like, I'm really sorry about that. I go, what's happening, and they just insist, it was a situation for me that I needed to honor the award. But at the same time, I didn't want like the other 48 people, artists effort and my effort to go to waste, and we came up with a solution, we cover their pieces, and we omit their name, their name is not gonna mention anywhere, and if they take a picture from the installation, your work is gonna be covered. And we actually wrote next to the piece, asked from the audience for not to take a picture either, like we just did a very, very carefully omit them from the show, but not omit them in a way that, like, for example, if an audience wants to see their work, they can leave the rice paper on them, and see the relationship between the artist, but they are not gonna be traceable, for being in this show. And I did that because I was thinking, maybe they don't feel safe. Because whatever they do, like whatever person, especially a woman, doing my country can be like, against law, because normal life is illegal, right. And I just wanted to be careful that nothing came back to them. And if they are not really save, and it's about a matter of safety, I didn't want to do any tank, when that put them in danger. I was thinking about how, how censorship can go inside a person, like a person, after having an opportunity to talk and bring whatever is bothering her, or whatever she's thinking about, start to not talk like to not show. And since they're themselves actually after I made their name, I called the pieces, both of them said self censored, because the artists themselves decide not to be in a show, like for an artist being able to talk about the idea is like, very important, right? That's why they work. And the fact that society and government pressure can come this deep inside the person mind that they censor themselves is is awful, is actually a security. And I think it can be in everyone. Like even me, I noticed myself that I need time to let go of all of the mindset that they planted in me, I tried to understand those artists, and actually, I offer the same things to the other artists if they think the same. We can do for others too. But like, fortunately, there were just these two artists. And actually, it helped me to bring the conversation to even if it was frustrating, sad at the beginning, mostly, but like, after a while when I sit and think about it. And I put myself in the situation because I lived for long in that situation that the status of being afraid uncertainty, and whatever you do is gonna put you in trouble. Like, for example, if you walk in the street, the police can arrest you, just because of the clothes you have. And one day they decided is not good. And the other day, they don't care. Like it's not very clear what is good, what is bad either. And I think about this kind of leaving and a status or being afraid. And that was what we did,
looking at all of the artwork in the exhibit, as you say it depicts a bunch of different styles of photography and different situations are any pieces pieces that would not have been able to be displayed in the artists home country.
The topic is something that they couldn't have a show around it, because being a woman and the situation women have is really political. Now. You know, there is something some mindset of abuse that they said, Okay, you shouldn't talk about how you're suffering. People are going to misuse it. And most of the time is so confusing for the people who are abused, they can kind of get confused and who is enemy who's a friend, especially in like domestic violence. And I think the same man mindset was in that conversation because we have a group of all of the artists and talk and I heard some stuff that that come from that mindset, like oh, we should talk about like the strengths women have or wish Then show, like our problems. That's the mindset actually advertised by the government to Yes, women are stronger. Yes, they are fighting for the rights. But we need to talk about the problems in that change them. Visually, many of them couldn't be shown especially like, did not have in her job. Like some of them have a job like are taken industry, but the one without her job, or like showing your skin, they couldn't be show like, just visually, but I can say, even if they want visual, you are okay. Wouldn't be okay to show because of the topic, look forced marriage, like there was a I was looking at news and like, there was kind of a statistic that shows like, like, how many women in Iran are not married. And the fun fact was like, I cannot say fun. But like, an interesting fact was like the count from the age of 10. That topic, forced marriage, like if a father, for example, have a problem, whatever is in their life, decided to sell a kid they can, there is no law against it. And we have three on three pieces in the show called forced marriage, like such a topic cannot be discussed in my country, because they don't want to change the law. Even art, like there is a limitation of it. For example, there is a Pinterest exam in my country for going to bachelor, like they decide women should have higher and great to go like everything is just kind of in the favor of men, even like going and studying.
When you talk about these subjects here in the US and to talk with folks about the issues that the exhibit raises, what do people here say? Do they say, oh, that's, that's terrible? That's totally different than anything that that has happened in my life? Or do you hear women say, that's more extreme. But here in my life, I've encountered a version of the same problem or the same doors shut to me in the same bar being different for men and women. Have you heard any response to this exhibit? Talking about those issues?
Actually, I I've heard both, especially older women say, Oh, we had some issue. And now everything has changed. And some people cannot even imagine, like, sometimes it's not even easy for me to imagine that it just so extreme and abstract, that I cannot believe it's still happening. People like, for example, for domestic abuse, it's happening here too. It's sad to say like in this country, like with the lobbying good and everything is still happening. But the difference is like there is some day out of it here like eventually you're hopping in the conversation, there is somehow a prey back home, the problem is like, there is no hope, even if it for the good people. The government, the law is just so strong. Like there was a few case of murder that the father killed the daughters in my country in 2019. And one of them, the girl go to event to police and said, I'm not safe. The police brought back the 13 year old girl to the house and said you are not allowed to be out of your home, even if she was not safe. And she knew that. And the day after she was killed. Even with the fact that she asked for help. There is no help. That's a different that's that the system is against women and like, as long as the law is like that, and like they have some religious mindset, like the religion and the government state are not separate in my country. And like that little girl, based on that mindset is owned by the Father. That means there is no way coming out of it. And the father decided to kill her as a result. I think that's the biggest difference.
What do you think the role of art is for getting this message across but also for giving an opportunity for people living in a system where there are a lot of limitations of what they can do? What role does art play in allowing women in particular as in this case, express themselves and tell their story and maybe reach things on an emotional level that they might not be able to openly talk about?
I think the most important thing is a conversation. Like you know, even for me, there was a level of understanding after I was in communication with more than 50 people like the 50 In is the one the final artists that were in the show, but like I get in touch and talk and many more artists, even for me that was a layer of understanding after the conversation we had in the group and like some kind of disagreement, and then people were talking about to how they see and think. I hope it was the same for other artists too. But I can say for myself, I understand the things in a different level about censorship. And I was thinking, like, one of the things was very interesting for me was like how our society make women believe that that's everywhere. And everywhere. Women have problems and normalize their situation. Yes, women have problem everywhere, but not in that level is not normal. It's not normal, to be different to be killed easily. Like, for example, when an accident happened, if the person who gets hurt is a woman, the money the person need to pay is half, it just doesn't make sense. The person if it does have the family, if he she or he needs to go to hospital, same amount of money. But if that's a woman, the money is half about, like whatever lie you can think of is different for women, and how there's the government in 44 years that they are in charge, change the mindset that that's normal, that's everywhere. It is not normal. And we talked about it. And I'm hoping other artists can say the same that they, they learned something from our conversation. And I think the same here about our audience. I noticed during the time I was living here, there is no good understanding of us as Iranian and as Middle Eastern. And most of the things people know about us or from media, from the news, like whatever awful things that our government is doing. And they understand us from that. But we are separate, like people government, like I am as a person running away from the same brutality that you are hearing from the news. I'm not part of it. But like sometimes people get confused and all the time I was thinking about, okay, there is media and there is something newsworthy people go and listen to media and hear about whatever, like awful things are happening with my government, when I have my knee, like as a normal person, when I have the opportunity to talk about and this was my opportunity. And I use that to talk like we are no more good people. We are happy people we love the answer. We are normal people. The only thing is the government especially like the topic here was about women and like the situation they have, but part of it was like saying We are normal people and that's our life and for the audience. I hope some conversation had cushion all the time I answer and like I am looking forward to more conversation. I'm hoping that is opportunity for many people to think like matter your for thinking differently to know about people from far away and
our lives will start with you. Thanks so much for taking some time to talk to us today about the exhibit at the Joe McCauley gallery and about your life and your art and we look forward to the conversations that come from people coming to Hartley Community College and checking this exhibit out
thank you so much for having me I really appreciate it. Thank you.
Sharpen Hamza is a coordinator for Heartland Community Colleges. Joe McCauley gallery we talked about the exhibit being a woman, Iranian artists reflection. For more interviews about art, history, and more. Check out our other random acts of knowledge podcasts on Apple podcasts, audio boom, Spotify, and wherever you found this one. Thanks for listening
