#292 Showing up Online with Authenticity with Jessica Zweig

11:39PM Mar 5, 2021

Speakers:

Tracy Matthews

Jessica Zweig

Keywords:

people

brand

business

personal branding

book

service

story

entrepreneur

feel

jewelry

build

online

breakup

talk

jessica

influencers

called

world

love

years

Like at the end of the day, we have to know what our brand is about what it's not about and stick to the script. Because I would assume that the people listening want to build a big platform or want to build a presence online and an effective way to drive their business to serve more people to get their business out there more effectively.

Welcome to Thrive by Design, the podcast for ambitious independent jewelry brands, looking to profit from their products, get ready to make more and sell more doing what you love, without spending every single waking minute doing it. Hey, and if you're a creative fashion or product based business, I want to welcome you to the show. I'll be dropping big tips on launching, growing and scaling your business. So you can spend more of your precious time using your creativity to make money. You ready? All right, let's do this.

Welcome to the Thrive by Design podcast episode 292. Hey there, it's Tracy Matthews, Chief Visionary Officer of Flourish and Thrive Academy. And I'm excited to be here I had a blast recording this episode. This was my first time ever meeting my guest today. Her name is Jessica Zweig and she's the author of Be: The No-BS Guide to Increasing Your Self Worth and Net Worth by Simply Being Yourself. And I felt like I actually known her for years, we were speaking the same language anyway, we had a blast. And I think you're really going to love this episode for a variety of reasons more than anything.

She talks about overcoming, you know, imposter syndrome and shyness of showing up behind the scenes from your brand or coming out from behind the scenes of your brand, to be authentically yourself to come from a place of service and actually end up selling more of your products or your jewelry. And I am beyond thrilled to introduce you to her because first of all, I started I started reading her book, I didn't get a chance to read the whole thing by the time I recorded the episode, but I'm diving deep in, but you're gonna love it because there's just simple tactics that you can use to actually really like solidify what you stand for and prove your brand story and all the things that we're always teaching you over here at flourish and thrive and on the thrive by design podcast.

So I'm excited to dive into this episode, I know you're gonna really love it. But before I do, you know the purpose of hosting guests and in shows like this is to show you how you can show up online in a different way and use your online presence to actually train your customers to buy more from you online, whether that's through grassroots marketing or video marketing or building your email list and having a solid email marketing plan, or even setting up email automations and funnels in any way shape, or form.

The brands that leaned into digital strategies and discovered how they can actually leverage and turn those offline strategies offline events and turn them into online customers turn those people into online customers. Actually, we're thriving in 2020. And we want to help you do the same in 2021 and beyond. So we are bringing back our epic workshop called the TYC or Train Your Customers to buy from you online. And we are in the midst of inviting people and enrolling people into that program.

So I love to invite you to head on over to https://www.flourishthriveacademy.com/tyc And check it out and apply for the program. If you feel so inspired. We are getting started in early April. And this program is designed to help you with tactical workshop steps and when I say workshop steps, I just mean like we're in there with you helping you make these transitions and actually build your following and grow your business. In fact, the brands that we've run through this program have had amazing results. And if you want to check out some of the results that they've gotten, you can head on over to https://www.flourishthriveacademy.com/tyc

Alright, let's dive in to today's episode with Jessica Zweig. She's an award winning entrepreneur and one of the nation's most preeminent personal branding experts as the founder and CEO of SimplyBe agency, Zweig's visionary work in defining and enhancing personal brands, as gain have gained many notable accolades including being named one of Crain's Chicago's 2020, most notable entrepreneurs, one of INX top digital marketers to watch in 2017, a personal branding expert by Forbes and one of the Chicago Tribune, top 10 entrepreneurs to follow.

She also received a Stevie award female entrepreneur of the year in 2018. And 2019 Zweig is also the host of the SimplyBe podcast and one of the top 20 marketing podcasts on iTunes or Apple. She is the guests of shows that includes New York Times bestselling author Candace Bush Now Global Peace, Ambassador Prem Watch, and Designer Rebecca Minkoff to name a few. Her highly anticipated book Be: The No-BS Guide to Increasing Your Self Worth and Net Worth by Simply Being Yourself was released this February 2021. All right, let's dive in to today's episode. Well, welcome to the show. I am here with Jessica Zweig. Jessica, thank you so much for being here today.

Thank you so much for having me, Tracy, I'm so excited to talk to you.

Well, I am pumped because your new book is coming out, it is called Be: The No-BS Guide to Increasing Your Self Worth and Net Worth by Simply Being Yourself And I think that this is an important message that we all need in this day and age. So I am really excited to talk to you. Before we get to you. Before we dive in, I would love to just learn a bit more about your journey.

You know, it's been a long one, but I'll make it brief. I you know, I've been an entrepreneur for going on 15 years, I started my career as an actress, I went to school for theater, and then you know, stumbled into entrepreneurship literally accidentally, I didn't even know I was an entrepreneur at the time I became an entrepreneur didn't even know what that word meant. And I ran what was what became the biggest online fashion food nightlife, arts and culture blog for women in the city of Chicago for seven years. And that's how I started my career as an entrepreneur, I just wanted to know that there was a resource for me as a young woman in the city of Chicago at that time didn't, didn't exist.

So I created it. And I really cut my teeth during those seven years on digital marketing, social media content creation branding, I did a ton of events, it was a really incredible chapter of my life, I was kind of like a girl about town back in the day when you know, Chicago was like, not not in COVID. This was long time ago. And, and yet, you know, there was a part of me, especially towards the end of that chapter that was really out of alignment, was not happy, was sick, mentally, spiritually, physically, physically, had a really toxic relationship with my business partner, that company and just didn't feel like I was truly being myself.

And so I left that business in 2014, which, for those of you who are listening, I know many of you run your own businesses. If that's like an it's unfathomable to leave a company you created, if you it's not, it's not separate from you. It's It is you. And so this was a huge breakdown to breakthrough for me back in 2014. And I ended up leaving to start what was you know, at the time just a one woman shop called simply be agency. And I named my business after a little tattoo on my wrist that says simply be as the reminder to be in my own truth, because I was really operating from a lot of unconscious ego, running that magazine, I was really looking and starting to be the to be seen and to you know, to see and be seen. And, you know, I was real big nerd in high school. So when I became like, cool in my late 20s, quote, unquote, cool, I was like, really fed by your unconscious way. And so I let that really run my life for a while. And it caught up to me and I crash and I awakened for lack of a better word, and really went down this path of self development, self actualization, you know, becoming more and more authentic to who I am. And I also, you know, sidebar had the suite of tools and know how when it came to digital marketing, so I was like, Well, why do I, why don't I bridge these two worlds together, and really create a business around it that helps people who are authentic and service minded and purpose driven with the gifts that I have in digital and create an agency that supports the development of personal brands. And that's what simply the agency exclusively does. Now we work with all sorts of people to help them really drive their purposes forward in the world through building platforms, and it's really so much fun. So that's the highlight reel.

What kind of services are is it? Is it just all personal branding? Or is it like a 360 branding agency,

We do company branding, as well. But the majority of our sweet spot is personal branding. And so we'll work with executives, CEOs, founders, solopreneurs, on building their brand identity. So I often say, you know, Apple is a brand, Starbucks is a brand, I'm a brand, you're a brand. So we develop the brand of the person. And we do that in a very cool way, because I'm all about the humanity. And so how do we productize ourselves without losing that. And there's, there's a real sauce to that, that I think SimplyBe I, if I may be so bold to say has cracked the code on? So we start, we start with that. And then we also build strategies, you know, how do we get your brand out into the world in a way that drives your objectives. And we're also full service brand management. So we do ongoing execution for most of our clients as well.

That is amazing. You said something sort of in the middle of like, you're telling your story about how you kind of went through this awakening, and I'm laughing so hard, because if like when you're looking at the Internet, right now, they're talking about this thing called the great awakening that's happening in the world right now. But I always say that entrepreneurship is like the biggest personal development course you could ever program you could ever take because like rocked every day it every day, like learning more about yourself and learning about how to be a better person and how to be a better leader. And it's a lot you know, I've been an entrepreneur for 25 years, and my first company failed in 2008, it was like wiped out.

It was a jewelry company that was wiped out when the market crashed. And for I'm not going to go into the details. But people who listen to this podcast know my story. And that was like, literally like losing a baby for me, like, in a way and it's like, you know, it's obviously it's not human, but when you put so much of your life into something and hoping that everything's gonna go and you go from your best year in business to like, going under, it's like stressful, you know, it's a lot,

I don't think that there's anything more stressful in life. I mean, I could not agree with , I often say your business will only grow to the extent to which you grow as a person. And I think that if you're actually an entrepreneur, I don't want to sound right. But if you're actually an entrepreneur, you have, you have failed, you have failed, brutally. Like, by the end of my magazine, we were $75,000 in debt, I had to call my staff, some of them who were one of them, in fact, was a brand new mom and the breadwinner, her family, and I had to tell them, you're not going to get your next paycheck, there's no money. So right like those, those moments like make, make us yeah, I cry, I'm just thinking about it like it is. So part of the journey. And if you're playing, if you're playing big, you are going to risk and when you risk you can fail. And as long as you get back up, you apply the lessons, you're not going to just fail, you're gonna fail forward.

I love that. So good. And that leads me to kind of this other thing we saw this on your website, strong personal branding, when done right is an act of service. This is a line or quote on your website. I'd love to hear more about what that actually means to you.

I love this question. So there's, there's a ton of misconception about the personal branding space. And for good reason, you know, a lot of people who are doing this kind of thing are self promotional, and trying to be famous and all of it and, and I just really, really I'm here to hopefully set the stage, rewrite the script, bust the myths, if you do this work, right. If you architect a message as a personal brand, that is of service, meaning deeply, deeply filled with value for the people who follow you, first and foremost, that you show up with pure presence and resonance and hold space for the people who follow you and not make it about you, but how you can serve them, then you are doing this work right. And that's why it's an act of service versus an act of ego, because the biggest one of the biggest secrets about this work is is no one really actually cares about your brand. The only person that cares about your brand is you.

People care about what do they care about, they care about themselves. That doesn't make us bad, that makes us human. And so if you architect your message, it's like, Okay, my audience cares about their families, their bodies, their homes, their futures, their kids, their health, whatever, like really tapping into that, and tuning into that, and then having your come from, be a place, it's like, I get you and I see you, and I am here for you, you will never come off as egotistical. And if and if if someone thinks you are, and you are truly in your heart, which is where authenticity lives in your heart, then that's not your problem. That's their story and projection. So I really want to remind people of that, because I think a lot of people get scared to put themselves out there because they don't want to be seen as egotistical. But if you do it right, you won't be.

Well, we always say that sales is really about coming from a place of serving. So understanding your customer understanding, like what it is that they want from you. And it doesn't matter if you're selling a physical product like jewelry, or ceramics or if you're selling a service or a course or a program, it's really about like, how is this going to improve someone else's lives? And how can you, like just show up in a way to be of service to those people instead of being salesy? And I think making that shift internally makes it so much more easy for people who are shy or like afraid, right, coming from behind the scenes to just like, show up. Right?

Right, right. I mean, I, I will tell you that, though, there's, regardless of your logo, regardless of how beautiful your website is, regardless of how fired or Instagram game is, if you get a customer, if you get a client, because of how beautiful your Instagram or logo or website is, at the end of the day, they're going to they're going to have an experience, right, they're going to talk to a person, they're going to get an email from a human, they're going to take a face to face zoom call with the service provider. And at the end of the day, that's why they're going to refer you or come back to you or stay with you. Or buy again, because of you.

You get a customer, if you get a client because of how beautiful your Instagram or logo website is, at the end of the day, they're going to, they're going to have an experience, right, they're going to talk to a person, they're going to get an email from a human, they're going to take a face to face zoom call with the service provider. And at the end of the day, that's why they're going to refer you or come back to you or stay with you. Or buy again, because of you were in the people to people business.I don't care if you're B2C or B2B. At the end of the day, we're P2P, we're humans. And so really knowing that if you're a founder of a company or a brand, you are your brand, you're the reason for your brand. And no one can connect to your brand better than you delivering it because it's coming from from the person who created it, your product can't tell that story. It just can't. So that's why I believe that tactically, business wise, strategically, building a personal brand is just such a smart business.

Such a smart business, I love what you said. And I keep like I'm thinking to myself, like, I feel like I could be saying the same things. Because like we're so like in cahoots here, because I'm always working with the designers to try and get them to like come out, like so many of them are shy. They're, they're like, Oh, this is really about my jewelry or my product, it's not about the other things. So what would you say to someone who's kind of like, afraid to come from out behind the scenes or show their face or like, kind of share their story a little bit more, because we do know, one thing is that there is a lot, there are a lot of different products. And there are so many choices out there in this world, and people buy from people. So we've already established that, but they also buy because of the story of your brand. And you. So let's talk about that a little bit.

So what I would say to those listening, but feel that fear? Well, first of all, we all feel fear, yeah, that's never, that's never gonna get go away. So get used to that. The second thing I would say is test and learn, test and learn. So think of something that that that scares you a little bit to share, like a vulnerable, like whether that's a photo of your face, or a long winded personal story. You only know the answer to that. But if it comes from your hearts, again, like the distinction between like, authenticity and authenticity for whatever it's worth in my book, it's like, is it coming from love? Or is it coming from fear?

Because fear shows up his ego and loves shows up a service. So it's coming from your heart. I would take a deep breath, and post something online that scares you to share. It doesn't have to be the most personal thing going on your life. In fact, I don't I don't think that that's it all where the internet needs to play in your life. Yeah, but maybe it's a it's like a real personal story of why you started your business. Like why you left your corporate job to start this jewelry line and how scary that was for you, for example, and how you lost sleep and fought with your partner and you know, woke up every day for six months with anxiety.

Like, write that in a blog. I dare you put that in an Instagram post. I dare you and watch what you get back. That I promise you I in fact could bet money on it. That the response that you get back will fill your soul and affirm for you that your story matters, because people can see themselves in that level of truth and authenticity and ability, and it becomes less scary. Each time you do it, you test and learn, test and learn. So test it out, try it, give yourself at least one shot and see what you get back. And I think it will be your fuel to do it again. That's what that's my advice

It's so good. No, I love that. It's like just that one little piece of vulnerability like sharing the story. I mean, I do think that getting sort of into some of those details, like, I remember in the beginning, when I first started Flourish and Thrive Academy, which is one of the companies that I own. A designer came out of the woodwork. And she's like, you know, jewelry was like the thing that helped me overcome my like drug addiction, like I was like, literally a junkie like getting through and like so I don't always think like you would want to necessarily share your total train wreck story. But like in certain cases, sometimes those things like really help people connect, because that's the reason why you even started, right?

Yes, can I can I double click into this, because I think it's such an important conversation. And I want to make sure your audience is really, really getting this. So this drug addict story, I'm assuming she's no longer addicted to drugs, right?

I haven't kept in touch with her. This was like maybe eight or nine years ago. But

Sure, but the point, the point behind my question is, in the depths of that dark time of her life, she probably will one wasn't coming on the internet talking about it. Right. Like had like, I had no place doing that she needed to work on herself offline, and go through her lessons, and experienced her own growth. And then come back with the clarity and the wisdom to talk about that stuff with consciousness. And, and, and, you know, and with service right back to this. So a long time ago, when I was growing up with breaking up with an ex boyfriend of mine, like this was in my 20s. And it was a very dramatic breakup. And I was, you know, heartbroken and devastated. And this was the dawn of social. So I was on Facebook, cathartic every day, like talking about the breakup being super passive aggressive, but you know, like, just being that girl, and I had someone pulled me aside, you know, proverbially speaking and was like, just not a good look.

She was like, the internet is not a place for you to process. Process with your therapist process with your friends. And so my, and then come back to the internet. Once you've gone through the breakup, you've healed and you actually have something really, really important to share to other girls who are going through breakups. Not for you to just feel your feelings out loud online. And so this is an important nuance for people who have fear around sharing themselves. If you're not meant to process at all. You're not meant to go there. It's not a good look. But if you have gone through something that has made you who you are, and you come out the other side of it, man, that is so that is such an inspirational material.

Yep. It's true. I mean, when I remember this, like really specifically, this is like another like, example from my own life and career. Like I remember when I started Flourish and Thrive Academy, like I had to file for bankruptcy after my business failed, because I had like almost three or four times more debt, but didn't you mentioned because it's like a physical product company. And the gold market was like, surging at the time. And I'm like, I know, I need to talk about this bankruptcy, because it's going to help people. But I was like, I was so embarrassed about it. And like raw like that the first couple times that I would even shoot videos, to talk about it, I would like literally just start bawling. And I remember a student came to me once and she was like, and she'd been a student of ours, she stayed with a with our programs for a long time.

She's like, you know, I get that you went through this, but maybe you should not be crying about it, like on the videos, because it's like, it kind of takes the lesson away from it. And I was like, I saw sometimes torn because I think like authentic emotion is important. But in a way she was right. Like I wasn't necessarily ready to talk about it. I was too close to it still. And so I was still in this process of like, how do I say this without sounding like a total loser, because I didn't realize at that time, that so many entrepreneurs like have actually gone through the same thing, you know, like part of being in business is about failing forward and about taking risks. And sometimes the risks don't work out, you know, and it's just part of the process. And unfortunately, mine got wrapped up in a global recession.

But at the same time, like, I can look back in hindsight now and talk about it feeling very detached as it's just like part of my story. I don't have a charger on it anymore. But I know that sharing that story can help so many people because I know that people sometimes are in that same place where they're deciding, like, is this something I keep fighting for? Or is this something that I want to let go of and just move on to do something else that whether it's a new company, or whatever it is, to kind of reach that next level of whatever I'm supposed to be and so on. I think it's really important. Like, I love that you shared that like, because I think the differentiation is really about being able to process and processing in real time versus being able to, like, recap the story or recap the lessons in hindsight, right?

Yeah. You just use the word charge to Which I think is such a great, like, measuring stick. Yeah. Like, don't like feel into your own intuitive body and energy body, like if something's giving you a charge still. Like, to that degree, like, I had such a toxic relationship with my business partner, when I left that business of seven years. And I like, I couldn't talk about her without feeling like, really angry and resentful. And, and, and then time went by, and like, time, time, time time is a healer. And I did my own work. And I took accountability for my responsibility in that relationship, which was his own journey. And, you know, stop looking at her like that the enemy and like, well, you were kind of the enemy to just like, you know, you didn't show up as your highest self during those years, like, you know, and like, then like, that was years and years of like, work. And now I can talk about her and I'm like, I wish her well, like, I'm so grateful for her. Like, she's an amazing person. Like, I really like I can look back at all of it. But it took me a minute. And I, you know, I can talk about like, business partnerships and how hard they are as a lesson for other people without any charge. So it's really important point.

Yeah, I love that. So let's talk about a little bit more about online presence and influencer culture. I'm kind of like pivoting a little bit, but not really, because I think that this is important. You know, influencer culture is like, huge, it can feel kind of icky. sometimes it's like, oh, do I do this? So I think people are like, trying to like, sometimes be like, compete with that, right? And not everyone is that so? Do you have any tricks to or tips to help make people feel more comfortable when they're coming out online to be more genuine and authentic? in their presence?

Yeah. Yes. So let's be really clear about something. So influencers? It's a billion dollar industry, okay. influencers? influencers are people who get paid by brands to create content as their sole revenue stream?

That's it. I mean, influencers and leveraging their platforms and doing a bunch of different crazy stuff, they launch product lines, they whatever. But at the end of the day, that's what their business model is based on. And I would imagine that most people who are listening are not that, yep. Okay. So like, you're not looking to get your feed sponsored by Dunkin Donuts tomorrow, like, that's not why we're here. So. So I would just, you know, step away from the narrative of like, well, if I build a big platform, and that makes me an influencer, or if I want to grow a big community, like, then I have that I'm going to be seen as that. And I either don't want to be or I do, like, that's a totally different conversation.

So I think what's really important for people is clarity, right? Like, at the end of the day, we have to know what our brand is about what it's not about and stick to the script. Because I would assume that the people listening want to build a big platform, or want to build a presence online in an effective way to drive their business, right to serve more people to get their business out there more effectively. And so the first place you really have to start I always say is with the brand story. And many people listening have products that are clear, but but are they like, what is the story of your brand? And how are we really taking people inside of a narrative of a why have a community have a feeling so that people have something like deeper to connect to emotionally than just your product. And there's a formula in my book, and I just would love to, you know, plug it for a second called the Personal Brand Hologram.

And it's a framework that's going to really simplify this for you. Because branding is an exercise and clarity, as I often say, and yet we as people are complicated. So how do you reconcile the the emotional nuances and complexities of a person with with building a product, which is, you know, what a brand needs to be as clear. And so this framework will help you really get centered on what are the four brand pillars that you can really own, that are ideally showcasing your expertise and why someone would pay money basically, to work with you. And also what makes you you and what makes you human, and isn't about creating all of these noise and telling all these stories, because that doesn't achieve clarity.

But it's about honing in on like the parts of you that you really are passionate about and light you up and bringing that to your message because people can feel that. And so it's a very long winded answer to your question, but I really want people to think about my name come up in a room that that I'm not in.What, what are they saying about me? Like, what's the one or two sentence soundbite like, that people can feel. And you that's your brand right there. And so really thinking about how can you own that narrative more effectively and proactively online through telling your story very, very consistently. And clearly.

I love it. So I've one more question for you. Then I want to talk talk a little bit more about your book, you know, being on social media all the time can like cause like, massive burnout, like, how do you how do you avoid that? Like, what's your what are your tips for that?

Really bad person asked this question on my phone, you know, to be totally honest, and real, like, I've taken a lone moon once a year, I call it the lone moon, where I like check out like, I literally go off the grid for a week by myself, and I'm married, and I love my husband, and I love traveling with my girlfriends, but like, I actually really crave solitude, and I need to travel by myself. And so that and the few times that I do that every you know, year or whatever, and like I actually delete Instagram off of my phone, I delete the apps, I don't I delete them all.

It's me, it's kind of what you have to do to be frank. And it's so powerful, like the mental clarity that I get, like the ability to connect with nature, like just by not having these like brain, these waves in impact your brainwaves all day, every day. And I think you know, setting boundaries daily on a micro basis like I try to, you know, not pick up my phone before a certain time when I wake up and turn it off before I go to bed. It's it's hard. And I just think you have to set your own boundaries and make what works work for you. But for me, it's like drawing massive extreme boundaries every couple months to you know, once or twice a year to recharge and get get really disconnected from my phone. It's so important.

I love it. Sometimes I get so grossed out by a screen time. Like to work from the phone. So it's like not always on social media. Clubhouse is hard, though. I'm kind of addicted.

Yeah, clubhouse as a whole new can of worms girl. Want to want to hang out over there? Let's do.

Okay, so tell us about your book, because I know, my listeners are gonna love it. And I highly recommend it. It's I can't wait to like dig into this more. It's amazing.

You're so kind, I'm so excited for it. It. You know, I spent three years writing it. So it's like here in the world is very surreal. So, you know, I run this personal branding agency, right, which is a premium service. So you don't have to have some kind of dough to throw down to do it. And a couple years ago, I was like, I don't really feel like that's right. I think that this is this work of understanding marketing, understanding messaging, creating strategy, PR, social, to really do this work, right?

It shouldn't be secret, like it actually belongs to people who can't afford an agency like how do I democratize this. So my book is really the keys to the kingdom, I've opened up my methodology. It's a tactical workbook, it's part book part workbook, it's gonna walk you through step by step, all the different frameworks. I mentioned, the hologram, there's about five more, that are all trademarked, that really will keep give you the keys to do this. But it's more than that. It's not a business book by by, like, in actuality, it's a empowerment book, I often say in my book is the permission slip, the like the permission slip that you need to be who you were born to be in a roadmap to build it. As part of my memoir, I've come from, you know, self worth to net worth, I used to have zero self worth. And I really believe that the reason that people don't put themselves out there, Tracy, in a really bold way, is not because they don't know how to do it. It's because they're afraid to do it.

That that's what's really preventing us from living our lights and shining bright and being seen for who we truly are in the world. There's, there's a lot of self limiting beliefs that we all have. And so my book is really here to help you release those negative self limiting beliefs to step from fear into love to be in service to the world and the only way you can and the roadmap to help you build it. So I I'm so excited about it. And it's you know, on sale now wherever books are sold, and I'm just really grateful. Thank you for letting me letting me talk about it. I really believe in it.

Anytime This was so much fun. I feel like I was talking to a girlfriend like this was great. Thank you for having me. Really. You're amazing.

I'm really, really excited about it. We'll have links to the show notes for the the no BS guide to increasing your self worth and net worth by simply being yourself. It is awesome. Jessica, I loved this interview so much. I want to have you back on at some point.

Thank you for being here. Thank you so much for listening to the show today. This is Tracy Matthews signing off. We're just about to sign off, make sure that you go pick up Jessica's book be and we'll have the links in the show notes. So make sure that you check that out. Also, if you are interested in discovering and learning how to train your customers to buy more from you online, I highly encourage you to apply for our 12 week workshop.

We are accepting applications now we are about to close enrollment in about a week. So you can head on over to fhttps://www.flourishthriveacademy.com/tyc for more information and to fill out an application right there. Thanks so much for listening to the show today. This is Tracy Matthews, signing off.

Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. It's my mission to help 1000s of creative businesses inside and outside the jewelry space use their creativity to make money. Make sure that you're subscribed to thrive by design on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, and wherever podcasts are played. And we'd love to hear what you think. Please rate and review the show and if you're inspired, please share this with your friends. Cheers to seeing you flourish and thrive.