Care of Magical Shippers Podcast - Episode 37 - Crossing-over into an Alternate Universe! w/ Phe (AU/Crossover Tropes)

4:14AM Nov 21, 2022

Speakers:

Care of Magical Shippers Podcast

Nathan

Keywords:

fanfiction

read

character

harry potter

people

fandom

harry

love

world

talk

voldemort

fanfic

au

feel

write

books

jk rowling

podcast

listeners

magic

Hey there listener Fancy seeing you here. Look, sometimes due to the things we discuss on the pod, it might contain potentially triggering content. But the good news is you can always review the episode description for a full list of the warnings applicable to this episode. Oh, and just so you know, this episode is rated are really filthy. It includes adult themes and explicit content. So if you're an adult, buckle up, Gird your loins and prepare to flood the basement because we are going down with these chips

ship space, let's go to ship big. Don't care if I get my bearings. Well, then you can get the bricks. This is my own CP down with

Welcome back to Care of Magical shippers, podcast, Harry Potter ship culture Podcast. I'm Nathan. I'm so not. This week, we have no mags because mags is doing house renovations, as we told you in advance. But in banks, this place is the wonderful thing you've heard before you were on the 100 episodes. Hi, Fi hi.

Thank you for having how are you? I am.

I am so glad you're back. talking over each other. Yeah. So it's not that I want to talk over fee, I should just say there's like a tiny little delay or lag or something on my end. So it's like, there's I'm hearing silence when there is no silence and so on and so forth. We'll make sure we are professional podcast. Yes. Hi, welcome back. I'm so glad you're here. I'm glad it's not just going to be an hour and a half of me talking to myself because that would not be fun. And I'm so glad that you love me enough. You are willing to be like, hey, I'll come and do this with you. I honestly, this hour and a half is gonna fly. While I am here and doing the intro thing. I don't normally go on this long because negs does all this. So while I'm here and doing this thing, I should probably tell you, dear listener, what it is that you're going to be listening to. Although of course, you've clicked on this episode, and it will have a title so you know what you're listening to, but I still have to introduce it. So this week, we are going to be talking a use and or Trump's it's very open week. I'm very excited because there's a lot to cover. And I I'm excited to talk about it with you. We even have for the benefit of our listeners. I'll just explain. We never normally do notes for the episode. But we're so prepared this week. We're so honored that we have notes in a little side document that I'm looking at right now and I'm feeling very, very fired up and ready to go. So how you feeling like Are you excited?

Yes. I am excited. Like you and me. We're good. We're good. I have no worries about us getting on. And I'm glad that we're talking about this because I I've said before I don't have a lot of canon knowledge I don't I'm not very confident in my I don't know Harry Potter stuff because a user where I live and I prefer fan and over cannon and so I'm really glad that you could find something that I could talk about with you. That is upgrade

of course of course and so I suppose like the first question that springs to my mind is like what got you into fitness first of all to like Harry Potter stuff Harry Potter fanfiction, but then also like, what then once you got there, you're like, huh, and you stuff you know, this is really floating my boat. Sure.

Also, I don't know. Did we say yet what a U stands for?

I'm assuming that our listeners will know what au means. But for the benefit of those few of you who don't it does stand for alternate universe. There is something that that takes place outside of the typical magical wizarding world and that can have various permutations. Do you want to discuss some of them? Like some of your favorites?

Um, I'll answer your first question about like how I got into them. And then we'll have it there. Cool. Cool. Yeah. Okay, um, I my fandom history is like cut into chunks. When I was a teenager. I did a little bit of fandom whatever. No, I use on the radar. I was just Cardcaptor Sakura, that was all about when I was about and I did read a little bit of Harry Potter back in the day. I remember I read a Harry Potter impreg At the tender age of like, 11 or whatever. And I was like, Oh, wow.

Like was your introduction? Going? Uh hum.

Like it was mostly like, people are what people are shipping Drago and Harry, is that allowed? Can you do that? I read some and I was like, okay, yeah, we can. No, yes.

Nice. I love that. I love that it was dreary. I love that it was because it seems to be that like, that's one of the like the go to or start up pairs. And I suppose you know, we've kind of talked about this on the pod before it because there's so much tension and antipathy there. And there's just so much you can build on but like, tell me like, about not just like your early MPEG adventures, but then how that how we get from there to a lot of the stuff that I know you love now. I can't wait to get into it.

Yes, so I did. That was my early my early days as a wee lass. And then I as an adult, like maybe 10 years ago, 15 years ago, when Sherlock came out, I was like, Okay, I need I need to find some more fanfiction. And that that was where I found a oh three. And I was like, oh, there's a whole growing thriving community of this stuff. I'm here for it. And so I read Sherlock fanfiction pretty much nonstop for like two or three years now. And then I took another break. And I was like, Okay, this, this habit is done. I'm ready to move on to the next thing. And then I got into it again for another fandom. Miraculous Ladybug, by the way. And so but then that trend never stopped. Like I I'm still riding high on the wave of like, enjoying fan created content. So I read all this like Miraculous Ladybug stuff. And then I was like, Well, this is my habit. Now. I'm into like reading fanfiction. I need something else to read. What else is there and instead of going to different fandoms that I was into? I would I was sorted by tags. I was like a tag hopper. So I would read a story that was like, Oh, this one has a meet cute. And I'm like, oh, meet cute. Yeah, let's do another meet cute. Or, or whatever. Like, yeah, I like coffee shop at us. Let's do another one. This is this could be fun. So I started. So I would just click through these tags that I thought were interesting. Like, yeah, that's something I would want to read about. And if you sort by kudos, the top fandoms. Like there's a millions and millions of fandoms. But whatever comes to the top is what I would read. And it got to the point where like, Okay, I keep seeing Teen Wolf come up. And I have no prior knowledge of Teen Wolf. But this says it's an AU. And if it's an alternate universe that I don't need any kind of knowledge, and I can just

jump right in. Exactly. Yep, you can,

and it'll tell me everything I need to know about these characters. Because it's a great reviewed fanfic. And, yeah, I'll dive right in. So that's how I became like this fandom Hopper, like I am into a ton of different fandoms because I just love following troll poles. And I know sorry, to see the tag for troll poles.

I wasn't gonna say because I didn't want to interrupt your flow, but I was on a exactly the same page. Yeah, thank you for Yeah, we don't normally do hashtags in our episodes, we should introduce hashtag trope holes. Sure.

So that's really how I got into it. And you know, Harry Potter is a huge fan. Um, there's a ton of stuff. So I kind of fell back into reading more Harry Potter, just because it kept coming up in my searches. So I'm like, Okay, we're doing this, I guess. And because there's also a thriving fandom community around the Harry Potter. Yeah. It was like, okay, yeah, I'll stick around here for a while. That's cool. I'll dabble in and out of my other fandoms that I enjoy. You know, The Witcher, a little bit of Hannibal,

but no, I you know, nice. Yes, I definitely like, I'm just sort of nodding along and approving of the choices but for any listeners that might be curious. I also in terms of Sherlock really ship Mycroft and Moriarty. I just think that they're meant to be together. And in that is all I have to say about the subject on this podcast because it's very hard to be to rein it in right now. And I just need you to know how much like willpower and self control it's taking did not you know spirally episode into one giant vortex. Okay, I'm gonna talk about Sherlock for an hour and a half now.

I applaud your restraint. Nathan. Good job.

Thank you. Thank you, thank you for recognizing that I'm making good choices. I really appreciate this. But so it's interesting to me because your introduction to fanfiction, and the way you read is so opposite to the way I was introduced to it. You know, I grew up with the books I came up through canon, I thought canon was like this thing that was sort of hopefully it shouldn't be touched for ages. And I had a sort of an early snobbery about fanfiction, because I'd only ever read the really early stuff. And I hadn't really, I hadn't really engaged with the community very much at that point. And so my perception of it was very narrow. And then ever since, you know, I discovered podcasts, and I discovered the community, my my worldview on it as just totally opened up. And I was like, I didn't even know this whole spectrum of color existed. And then, and then we became fanfic bodies. And I sort of feel like when we talk about what we like to read, there's so much overlap in the Venn diagram of like, you like this to Oh, my God, I never even knew was a thing. We just geek out about it. So the fact that you can have such different, I guess, introductions to something, but still end up on a very similar wavelength gives me hope, because surely, that's what community is all about, on a broader level, as well as it just being fun on a family level, for sure. Yeah. And like, I guess, from my point of view, and from like, just as what's interesting for me to ask you is like, what, what excites you about like, what is are there any tags that you will particularly look for and go, I haven't read one of those in a while. Like, I'm going to I'm going to read there was only one bed, or I'm going to read, you know, they'll force proximity stuff? Yeah. What? Which? Is it just that different moods, like, overtake you? Or do you have certain tropes that you're like, Oh, my God, yes.

Hmm, good question. Yes, I think I definitely get in, I crawl back into that trope. But I'll do this horrible thing, where I will open up a tag that I'm into, and I'll sort it by whatever I want to sort it by maybe I'll filter out whatever fandoms I haven't yet crawled into. And then I will curate my enormous unwieldy, impossible to manage marks for later list. And, like, this is how I get 90 tabs open on my phone. I'll just keep opening. Oh, this looks good. Let's, but I'm not going to read it now. I'll hang on to it for later. Keep opening more. Oh, yeah, that one looks good, too. Yeah, let's let's keep that one on deck for whenever I feel like it. So honestly, my bedtime routine is I open up my phone I scroll around my enormous groups of tabs and I'm like okay, yeah, let's do this. Let's do this one. That's fine. So it's a problem I recognize that I have

a problem ladies and gentleman she's a connoisseur to

know I'm a hoarder. I'm definitely like mental enough to have scraped all the data from my marked for later like you know at some pages worth of marked for later and put it all into a spreadsheet that I can short sword because al three doesn't have that technology yet. But if you're dedicated enough an extra enough you can do it yourself.

I love that level of dedication, you know, that just proves that you're passionate about it. That's not weird to me. That's just passion directed in a very specific direction.

That's very generous of you to say thank you

I get that way about things that I enjoy myself. We've talked about this stuff. I suppose like in terms of passion being directed in very specific direction is Is there anything particularly I suppose Harry Potter related that you that you came across trope wise or AU wise or wherever it happens to be and before you read it you weren't expecting you were like, maybe but then something like caught your eye or surprised you and then that took you down a rabbit hole

Sure. Why I think the thing that I was gonna say the magic but like Harry Potter horror RRL it's not sorry, the wonderful

thing insert magic sound effects

so the really cool thing about the Harry Potter fandom is there's like a built in au that that we sort by epilogue what epilogue it's Yeah, I love it. Yeah. And because the Canon books, if you disregard that blog and subsequent stuff. If the books end at the graduation of Hogwarts after the Battle of Hogwarts, then they're done, then you have their whole lives to play around with fanfiction wise. So you can give them different careers or different pairings, or different interests or locations or whatever. And it all like vaguely fits into canon without being an extreme AU. Like, there's not a lot of Muggle a use, or people don't have magic a use in the Harry Potter world because there's such a rich place to explore already. Yeah.

Well, well, I mean, you say that, but people do sort of forget that magic exists. In fact, I don't mean it in an official way that they're like, oh, magic doesn't exist in this universe. I just mean that like if there's a Muggle way to do something, because we are all in that world. And that's the headspace we occupy when we're sometimes and I've done this myself, when you transplant characters into that context, have magic you forget that they can use that one's for stuff. That also though the opposite of this is true. Whenever there's like smart and you're reading like a steamy scene between whoever it happens to be, and then suddenly their clothes will just be vanished. Yeah, you know, the loop will magically appear. So there are two sides to this courtroom. Yeah. I guess I you know, I'm here for both of them. Because ultimately, my headspace with this now is I want to support writers to write whatever it is that they want to right. And that can take many weird and wonderful forms and shapes and whatever. But I guess what I would like one of the reasons I'm most excited to be talking to you about this, is because you have so many wonderful you because you've read so much thick. You've so many wonderful ideas about like what good tropes are what you really like. And so I kind of, I just want to let you get enthusiastic about what you care about.

Sorry, I didn't mean that loud. Sure. Um, oh, let's just go through the hits then. So the weird thing. So there's like a use, which is, which is in and of itself, a kind of trope. And a trope is just something that happens and you see it all the time. And the weird, cool, magical thing about fanfiction is because oftentimes, we're reading each other's work. And we're like building this community together. If someone comes across something that they resonate with, they're like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna write that too. So like, maybe 10 years ago, you wouldn't see a lot of like, Cam boy fics or only fast. fics. But nowadays, they are coming in and I really love it. There's some of my favorites. Just I don't know, you they used to just be like rent boy or prostitution fics or would escort fics or whatever. And now it's like, well, now we have another little another variety, another different place to explore this fun, pay for sex.

Exactly. Sex work is real work. And we support the characters in all their endeavors.

So that's one of my that's one of my faves. Oh, some of my faves don't translate well, to the Harry Potter world because of the magic and the Muggle myths of it like, wrong number a US are some of my favorites. I know. Yeah. Why? But they're just delicious and delightful. And it's just that formula of like you you meet a stranger and you have no context for them for who they are or what they are. But just talking to them via text is enough for you to be interested in continuing with that relationship or whatever. Yeah, so it's, it's a fascinating and I really like I've read some good ones, sadly. Sadly, I oh three doesn't have wrong number I use as a sort of ul tag, so I just have to go digging for them myself. But it's still someday, someday. It's fun. For now,

what do you never know, maybe at some point in the future, it's one of the lovely members of the team from a oh three, maybe listening to the episode of this podcast. That might be a really cool tag. Or maybe one of our lovely listeners will write to a oh three and go Do you know what be a really cool tag to add? Because I heard about it on this podcast. Here are some really cool ideas, and then you won't have to go Monday digging for them because I'm sure the stories are great. Why why do you were talking about it? I was sort of thinking like, what would the magical equivalent of a wrong number A you be? And I have to like there has to be some sort of fake that somebody's written where they operate to the wrong house. And I was I was because I was always thinking about like, apparition etiquette. There's nothing to say that you couldn't just operate into somebody else's living room, if you really wanted to, and I'm And then there are like anti apparition wards or whatever, around Hogwarts just because that's necessary because there are children in those walls. Oh, like,

if you're at a hotel or something and you go into the wrong room, it'd be the same thing if you operated in the wrong space or like that. Tell me more. Tell me more.

Yeah. Because nobody, oh, just thinking like the adult wizard to live in ordinary wizarding household. There's nothing to say you couldn't just operate into somebody else's living room. And even like Dumbledore and Harry, bring it up. At one point they have this talk. I think it's in book six. And that Dumbledore is looking for Slughorn? And Harry says, Well, why can't we just operate directly there. And he goes, Well, we don't do that because it will be quite as rude as kicking down the front door or something. So even though it's frowned upon, it is technically doable. And I'm just wondering if an ext if a natural extension of a wrong number AU is where a wizard just operates into the wrong house accidentally, because there's like terrorists houses like an especially in the dark, you're not necessarily going to know if a wizard coming home drunk and the upper rate, then, like they could accidentally end up in the wrong house. I'm sure that would happen. And I feel like someone is bound to have written now, listeners if you're hearing my voice right now. And you know, the thick within which this happens, or you want to write one either way, sent that to me at Care of Magical shippers, podcast male.com. And I will be eternally grateful to you. But no, we were talking about Wrong Number fics. And I got sidetracked.

We are fine. So sure, yeah. But some of the other like popular tropes of choice that I'm into fake dating is adorable and wonderful. And like, the inevitability of their being feels is it's just yummy. I don't know how else to put it.

Yeah, yeah, I love that. And I wasn't introduced to it until fairly recently. So I was I just wasn't aware that it was trope, there was a it was just a thick that I read. And I was like, I'm really enjoying this. And then after that, they discovered that fake dating was a thing. Yeah, doing this for years. And I was just late to the party. But I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it as a newbie, and yeah, like you say, the inevitability of fields, the idea that what I think there's actual Canon to support this as well though, because otherwise people wouldn't have individual Patronus is, and they're supposed to be like a reflection of who you are as a person. So just like reflections like that can be manifest externally in the form of Patronus is, I feel like feelings are a very real magical thing in the wizarding world. And the fact that someone has thought of that, and thought to write fake dating over the top of it just makes my little heart

I'm so happy for your little happy heart. One of the biggest use of their in the Harry Potter world that we didn't talk about is like the everybody lives. Everybody lives a you like Yeah, nobody needs to die. Just just keep them alive keeping come in, you know, serious, Remus. Yeah, they deserve to have only ever after let them have it.

Yes. Yeah, I love that. Exactly. What you've the way I see it is you've built up a relationship with these characters over a period of seven books, however many movies, so much fanfiction, so many supplementary materials, you know, you're invested and you care about them. And you know, it's not silly to want them to live. And if you happen to be of the disposition and the opinion that they didn't deserve to die, then why wouldn't you resurrect them and just be like, Yeah, I'm just gonna record Yeah,

exactly. That's the magic of being a sorry, I said it again. That's the wonderful part of Viega a fandom graders we get to do what we want. And nobody can tell us like no, you're not allowed to do that. That's, that's bad. Now I get to decide. Thanks.

So I'm going to admit something very embarrassing on this podcast. But it feels like the right moment readies. It's irrelevant to what we're talking about. So, so very, very shortly after the release of Half Blood Prince, I think I read the book in a day. And for those of you that don't already know, Dumbledore has always been my favorite character, one of my favorites. And of course, that's the book in which case you already know. But like, sorry, sorry, if you didn't put Yeah, he. He dies at the end of the book. And I was very, very upset like I still can't. So I listened to the audio books as well and I still can't listen to the chapter where he dies without getting misty eyed because I care so much about that character. So, I'm so invested. And so whenever that book came out, and I was feeling my feelings about it, there used to be a website, you might be able to find it on Internet Archive called donut or is not dead.com, which was very, which was very thoroughly using Canon research to put forward the idea that Dumbledore didn't really die at the top of the astronomy tower, because of things like the different effect that the killing curse had, you know, it blasted him back over the ramparts. It was a you know, it wasn't just a jet of green light. And then he fell down like we see in so many other instances. And all of these other little snippets of evidence were attempting to prove that his death wasn't the real deal. And then, a couple of months or so afterwards, JK Rowling must have got wind of this and replied, like, sorry, no, yeah, he is actually dead. And then when I read that response, I, like heartbroken me, however old I was at the time, I actually wrote a letter to JK Rowling asking her to like, re rethink the decision because I cared that much about the character and please, could it not be dead? Very much, Kay. Thanks. Bye. And, yeah, I never got a reply, because I guess it wasn't a very, she gets a lot of correspondence and

very, very generous read.

I'm not bitter about that whatsoever. But the point what the point was the whole point of telling this story, aside from the fact that it's maybe a little smidge embarrassing, is that I've been very keyed in to this idea of everybody lives for a while. It's just been channeled through very specific lenses. So that whole scene at the end of definitely Hallows where Harry is talking to Dumbledore was portrayed, I was all about it because it was like, Yes, this is a way Dumbledore can be back in the, in the books, I was all about you and more Dumbledore, especially when we're finding out about his backstory and about his life. So I guess what I'm telling myself, as I'm telling you out loud, is that I've always sort of had a fanfiction mindset about these things, even if I wasn't reading fanfiction at the time. And and I've waffled on for quite long enough about oh,

no, it's fine. I need to I need to address this. Because like, Okay. fanfiction exists, because we want more from a story we want, we want more of it, we enjoy it so much. And after an author writes and produces something or after a TV show is made or after a movie is whatever, like, it belongs to the audience it we get to decide what to do with it, we get to decide if this is a good story or a bad story. Or if it's not for me, or it is for me, and everyone gets to decide what's important for them. And like, maybe I am biased about this. I don't care what JK Rowling says if she says, yeah, now he's he needs to stay dead. Like, no, I get to my fanfiction, where he lives, I get to decide that. And again, partly is this just because I think JK Rowling is a trashed human being now, but we don't need to discuss that. But like, we get to decide what to do with the characters that she's given us. Because that's part of what like writing a book and putting it into the world is you only have so much control over it, honey, I subscribe to John Green's theory, which is that books belong to their readers. And once you put something out into the world, then it's for us to enjoy as we want to. And for some readers, that means saying this is a terrible book, and I'm not going to read it. And for some people, it means creating a whole world of fanfiction about it. If you don't like it, you don't have to read it. But we still have, there's nothing wrong with us doing that nobody is right or wrong, because we get to decide. We're the audience. And we get to decide what's worth reading and writing and creating more about and what's not.

Yeah, exactly. And I think you touched on it earlier. But I want to sort of circle back to it. Because it's important to me to make this clear, is that that is a large section of the community that has felt alienated justifiably, I think by some of the more recent let's charitably call them political tweets of JK Rowling's where the language has been very charged and very one sided and very, very, it runs very contrary to some of the things that were expressed in the books, which makes me suspicious of it, in and of itself, because I'm thinking of that scene in book four, where Hagrid is upset because Rita runs the piece about him being half giant. And he's crying in the cabin. And Dumbledore says something to him, like, you know, you could wait in this cabin for universal approval, but that's not you know, you're never going to get that it's never going to happen. And I think that there's something there's a very powerful message in that, which is that if you believe something to be right for you, and you are doing the best job you can for you, then who is anybody else an authority on telling you? How to live your life? You know, if you're not causing harm or loss to anybody else, you know, what rank Does anyone else have to come in and decide that, you know, let's say for the sake of argument, that trans people aren't real people, obviously, this isn't a philosophy I espouse. But like, just for this just just for the, you know, for the sake of putting that out there, who is anybody to say that with any degree of authority? Are they speaking from experience? No, you know, and so, one of the reasons that I am so glad that fanfiction exists is because it allows us to create that space where everyone feels loved and seen and safe and heard. We all get to create and play within that I guess

no, and like to tie it back into our whole episode, like one of my favorite like, hey, we did it. Kind of things is when you when you turn straight characters gay when you turn sis characters trans. When you take characters and decide, You know what, fu JK, I'm gonna make everyone gay.

Yeah. Oh, wizards are gay fact.

It's just, it's, we're allowed to do that. And we can and I feel like I need to shout out like, there's a whole magical trans community in on Tumblr, and there's a discord where people are like, you know, what, we get to have this, I know that the source material is is what it is, and the originator is who she is. But like we we don't have to care about what she says, because this is important to us. And we're going to continue enjoying it regardless of Yeah, she must not be named.

You know, the more the more time goes on, the more and more overlap between there is that there is between her and somebody like Umbridge. I know. And that's scary. It's scary. I mean, I honestly think she should end some of her tweets with, there'll be no need to think.

Yeah, I think sadly, not. Sadly, I've I've definitely been involved in some spaces, where we've done that exact thing where the way we treat Umbridge is like a wish fulfillment for what we would be like, oh, yeah, that's, that's the kind of person that that JK Rowling is that we can just ignore everything that she says because it's rude and unkind and uncharitable and unhuman to be so Oh, I know. I decree it. Here No, you don't.

Exactly. And a huge point of the books a huge moral point of the books is to be anti authoritarian. And to resist authoritarianism, wherever that comes from, you know, whether it's through Umbridge or through Voldemort or through the Death Eaters or through Lucia Malfoy, or whoever it happens to be, you know, authoritarian ism isn't looked on kindly in the books, yet. The A lot of the recent stuff that's that's sort of come from the author feels prescriptive, to the point of it excludes everybody else. And that was never what the wizarding world to me at least was about. And that's one of the things that I love that you said that you pick up on, is that you know, that's what makes fanfiction magical is that it is this place that we all get to belong. We all get to play. And I you know, I've Yeah, that's the I've waffled on enough about that now, but it's important because I feel like people's feelings are real, and they deserve to be heard and seen and loved that is just a fundamental tenant of any good community. And I'm so glad fanfiction can bring people together like that. Like fanfiction created this podcast, fanfiction created the discord that we have. fanfiction brought us together. That's what I was gonna say. So I am I'm just so glad. Like, it can all seem a bit like, affected and wishy washy, but it's when it's actually having tangible real results. Making real friendships happen. That's not nothing. That is everything. And I yeah, I could just talk about that for the remainder of the time. I'm not going to we have a lot of we have a lot of AU stuff to cover. There's still so talk about, but yes, Latin. Yeah. sachet on to that something else something else like coffee. Yeah, coffee shop I use let's talk about that. I love coffee

it's just an example. You know, I don't know why it became a thing. I don't know enough about fandom history to even say where are these tropes came from? Like a coffee shop au is a is just like a staple as is like the tattoo, the tattooist, the tattoo artist and the flower shop owner au like, where did that come from? I don't know. But I'm into it. Like just those. The dichotomy between two people that are that are different. Maybe it goes back to like, what are the ship dynamic memes that are going around lately? Yeah, it's just, yeah, you have these, these two people and the way they interact with each other is the same regardless of if they're in this situation, or that situation. Or if they're in a high school au, or if they're a university student, or whatever, in space. Some things are universal to their character, which is, you know, that that to me is one of the big appeals of, of a US you know, because a character is a character is a character, they're going to change a little bit depending on where you put them, but they're still gonna have the same like feelings and motivations. So it's just fun to put them in different places. I think one of your early episodes, didn't you talk about what it would be like if Snape owned a sex shop?

Yeah, yeah. Although to be fair, that wasn't, that was somebody else's wonderful fanfic that I will link in the description. That was a wonderful friend of mine, who has a prodigious writing talent. And yet Snape, the thickest called Snape would be a terrible sex shop owner. And it is fun task. I actually did some, like early pod recordings for that. And that was sort of my introduction to all things podcasting. So it's, it was very synergistic. For me. It has a special place in my heart. So yeah, go and read that thick. Because yeah, it means a lot to me. And it's just a lot of, it's a lot of fun. But I think I remember, while we're talking about like, just you saying, in space, wherever it happens to be, I think I remember reading your early on an AU where Draco goes and is a part of the International Space Station, because he's having, like, he's still dealing with a lot of the guilt of like, things that happened in the war. But the war was like a real war. It wasn't the wizarding war with magic and everything. It was like a real war with military things going on. And he was involved in in one side of it. And anyway, he decides that he wants to have a career in space, so that he can be away from people to process or, you know, everything that's going on in his brain. And then of course, Harry ends up working on the space station with course, you know, mayhem ensues, and that was really fantastic as well. And I've completely forgotten about that Fick until you just mentioned them being in space. And then I was like, I have a story about this. So yes. I yeah, I just I think for me, it's because when you can when you vibe with a character, you can vibe with them in any setting. And I love when someone is creative enough to go. Okay, yeah, but what if they met in a coffee shop? But what if they were an astronaut? What if they, you know, were, you know, what if this was a sort of a Christian Grey situation, I know I've read those as well like Draco's Christian Grey and Harry comes in as the as the new be like, it's just,

like matter on top of meta. Yeah, like a funhouse mirror or fanfiction. Beginning fanfiction.

Isn't it? Fantastic. It's glorious. I love it. People are just endlessly bound to see creative and they will write what they want to read. That's yeah, it's just fun. And I think like, sometimes life gets really serious. Like, I know that you'll feel this too. But like real life can sometimes not be nice. And so it's nice when you're reading fanfiction to be like, yes, I want my escape to be extra escaping today. I want.

Exactly. I want to see them on an ice cream shop together. That would be beautiful. What

I like, then you get to think of like all of the different flavors of ice cream they'd make together. It's just so

silly, stupid, wonderful stuff. Like, yeah, yeah,

yeah. Yeah. So we've talked about everyone lives ate us. We haven't yet talked about right reversal kind of a US where Voldemort is good. Or like, oh, Dumbledore is, is evil. I know that there are, you know, things that play about with this. But there's like also fake dating between Dumbledore and Voldemort, which is

I have not read that sounds intriguing.

So good. It is so, so good. I'm gonna have to, again, I will help it links, I'm sure. But there's this one that I read. It's incredible. And I don't want to step on the toes of any authors, particularly when I don't know if they want me to share their stuff. So I don't want to shout things out without people's consent, because consent is everything and really important in the space. But I will just say that if you're looking for that, that is on a oh three, just generally in those search terms, I'm sure you'll find good stuff. But yes, I love Shrek, where Voldemort is good, because it turns the whole moral axis of the world on its head. Unlike everything we expect about the world like Harry, Harry is the hero, Voldemort's the villain, and he's like the ultimate download. I love those fics where Voldemort's just like an ordinary dude trying to live his life, and then he's framed for a load of bad stuff that goes down. But really, he's like, not the mastermind behind it. Or like one of like, I think I read a fit once where it was Avery, or one of the other Death Eaters was really masterminding it all but they were pinning it on him. Because they were like, well, he looks like a skeleton, he'll fit the guy. You know, so it was it was like, you know, a very rarely cut the mustard because that was a very evil thing to do. So, you know, within the context of that thick, it works. I just love the idea of you know, Voldemort puttering around his cottage with a little tea cozy on a table somewhere, you know, just talking into a slice of Madeira cake, not a care in the world. And then all of a sudden, he's arrested by the Ministry of Magic, and he has no idea what's happening. You know, when it's up to the protagonists to figure out you know, what the real deal is? I suppose there's overlap there between like that and my love of mystery. Like detective stuff, we'll get onto that later. But, but like, I was just wondering, like, do you share my love of like, role reversal? Evil is good. Good is evil. Yeah,

it's a fun time. Or, like, there's a ton of dark Harry fics where he just like, Yeah, this is his master of deafness and goes off the rails or he decides, like, you know what, I've done so much for everybody else. It's time to do me. And he he does it deliciously devilishly

Nice. Do you know what when I think of that, I think of dark Willow from Buffy. I think I think we've maybe talked about Buffy before. But you and I have Yeah, but like I don't know if you if you've got that far in the series. But anyway, there's a point at which Willow decides to embrace the power of her witchiness and that spills over into some very dark corners. And she just goes full, sort of pantomime villain, and it's very, very good. She that Alyson Hannigan is incredible leans into it commits to it 100% I love it so much. And I feel like a lot of dark Harry Thicke is inspired by that same sort of sentiment. So a lot of the time when Harry goes dark or the best dark Harry fics that I've read all where he where he doesn't just go dark, but he goes like camp dark that the best time it's like he's embracing his inner Draco, you know? Yeah.

The dramatic flare with whoosh

the world didn't accept me when I was good. Now it'll have to accept noon when I'm

you know, we didn't even talk about that as like talking about Buffy and Harry Potter and the we didn't talk about crossover opportunities as a kind of AU because that's cool. So like, super fun shortcut for making an AU like oh, yeah, it's a dreary except it's also Jurassic Park. I love that so much.

Rasik Park in tiny letters, like just bringing the dinosaur on to people at the last minute. Like there's a lot of vibrating going on at this fake what's happening. There's water smashing everywhere. There's a big I appearing in a bush maybe it's just dropping no But

the opportunities are endless.

Yes, they are. They love them all. I love crossover fic probably because I think we're in a similar boat here. We just love so many different fandoms I am such a nerd. I'm such a nerd that I love a lot of things. And so when two or more of my things combined to form a new thing, I am very about that. I've said a lot of things in that last sentence. Okay, we'll go with them. It's fine.

Harry Potter itself is a huge target for for other fandoms like, Oh, it's a Harry Potter and you were now whatever characters are from that fandom are now at Hogwarts are now they have magic or whatever.

I love so many different things that given the excuse the time if I could get away with writing a Harry Potter Star Trek X Files friend new Buffy, you know, giant mega thick, where everything crosses into everything else Sherlock in there as well. Why not? I would like that's the epic, I would write because there are so many. So so many good universities. I don't know for we've talked about this before. But it for me, it's possible to crush on a character, but not on the actor that plays them. And I'm thinking specifically of Game of Thrones here where, you know, like nothing against Kit Harrington. But I just have a massive thing for Jon Snow, but not but not at all for Kit Harrington. And I'm wondering if it's also possible to love characters from certain crossovers, but only in that context, because it's like Buffy, but she's exposed to magic, you know, because, you know, maybe she like then discovers what willows all about. And she's able to, like, explore that with her. If we're shipping Buffy with Willow in this instance, for, for instance, and I love that. I just, I guess I love a lot of things. And I don't just love Harry Potter. So it's, it's a good time for me when worlds collide is what I'm trying to say. Yes.

Yeah. So thanks for having us episode, or we can discuss it all as this is a Harry Potter podcast. And we're like, No, we're talking about alternate worlds.

Yeah, well, you know, it was we talked about an awful lot in the pod. And it was about time that we did a huge stuff because we've been doing the pod now for over a year and a half. No, well over a year anyway. And I, I just had a year and a half because of when we started doing work for the part which was way before we actually released an ad cow. But yes, the point is, we've been doing this a long time and we haven't really touched like crossover or AU and I know that you're a massive fan. So getting a chance to talk with you about what you love. It's just such a good time. And like I I know that we share just a love of character and like sometimes massive as the Harry Potter world is. There just isn't enough. There aren't enough characters in the universe and you have to bring in your Mario Artis and your Sherlocks and your Bilbo Baggins is and your smuggles if you're into that.

Gollum slash Dobby he deserves his happiness to

one one's looking for a ring one's looking for a sock and they find it in each other

sexually

depends on how far in you're talking about really doesn't say oh my god. Oh, we weren't open till now. I thought the most toxic thing we'd ever suggested was Dobby slash Aragog. But after that, we've got my screensaver. Like

she's sorry. Know, it's I'm sure there's fics out there. There has to be

no but you know what, it's a fun topic. And if you want to read that, and you want to write that, that is fun. And it can you know, it gives us something to chuckle about as well because it's a good time for everybody. Like even if it's not something I ship I still think it's it's fundamentally right that that exists. Just because it makes the space a more expansive place. And I think you know, Dobby deserves love Smeagol deserves love. That's a fact of life.

Yeah, and I'm sure we will get into this more at our next episode that you and I are going to do together about crack

I can I just say I'm so excited to talk about crack fics like I live for crack fit like I love all of the like the serious stuff and the epics and like you guys know that one of my favorite fanfics of all time is the sacrifices arc that I still haven't finished I'm still on book five you don't matter to me I you know I'm I love it but I'm not through done with it yet because you know life gets in the way or whatever but I but what I have read of it, I absolutely love and it is a beast. And it's very, very good, but it's also pretty serious. And on the flip side of that, I suppose what really cemented my love of fic was a little podcast called fanatical fics and where to find them. It's actually where we met when mags and I met as well. We all met through that discord. And that focuses on a lot of cracky fanfic. And so I grew to love cracky fanfic, well then we subsequently discovered more we like subsequently have gone off and thought about pairings between us on our own. We would love to see

we've written our own cracky fan.

Yes, yes, we have. We've read Max's cracky fanfic as well. Or like, Huh, no, wait, that wasn't crack. I was thinking of. There's a moment where was it? Was that that one that we were reading and then dobbing appears Unlike somebody hastily ordered him to get out of the room, and he just like shuffles out of the room with a full tray of drinks and food wasn't crack thick, but it was a very rocky moment. And I loved it. Like I just humor just gets me and I yeah, I just I love that. Thanks bags. with us in spirit today. Definitely. i Yeah, we definitely have a lot more to say about crack fit generally. We'll have to wait. Yeah, it's gonna have to be at the other episode. But now I can't wait to do because there's just so much to say. But, you know, I just I guess one of the reasons I love crossover is because it it pushes the boundaries of what your even your universe can do. What your established rules can do. If you're bringing if you're bringing Sherlock into Harry Potter, you can like have him be solving a mystery whether the someone's murder or whether it's serious or not at all that that's part of the, the you know, the skill sets and stuff you can tap into. And I love that. I like what when you bring characters in from other franchises, you get to love more and love more broadly. And I don't know if this is the like, ethical non monogamous did me coming out. But I love a lot of things all at once. I just do. Yeah, that's just how I roll. And I think you and me both me. Yeah, I was gonna say I feel like we both definitely belong to that broad church of like, if it's a character I love I'm going to write about them. So for instance, like, I love the character of Dana Scully from X Files, because Gillian Anderson can do no wrong. I've yet to see your act and anything in which she wasn't flawless. But also, also, I may have had a totally crush on Gillian Hanson growing up

valid Nathan.

And like, I don't know if it was like the hair and the suits, but everything worked. For me. It was all just so good. And just that that withering skepticism, where I was especially growing up I was I had a lot of that sort of dewy eyed optimism about me. And so that that opposite pneus of her was just really very attractive. And if I could find a way to bring Dana Scully into the Harry Potter world, I would absolutely absolutely write that thick because she is a tremendous character. And but while I have you here, and you're my captive guest I wanted to ask, and we can edit this out if you don't have an opinion or whatever. But I wanted to ask you is there any character from another universe and other fanfic universe or whatever it might happen to be that you love them so much that you would want to bring them in to a Harry Potter fan fics scenario

um i There are characters that I love a ton. But I feel like the Harry Potter universe in and of itself is like I could take it or leave it I live about a US so I don't I don't mind too much if they are or aren't in the Harry Potter universe is a crossover show. But probably like style Stilinski has a Big happy place in my heart from Timo. He's just, he's just lovable. So he would definitely he would be fine. He'd be a slither in 100%. And that would be Yeah. See? Do you say is there one character like I would put anybody in the Harry Potter universe? I would take Jasper and Carol and bring them over to Harry Potter and see

Yes, yes. Okay. No, but that works because we've already established that there's a long whole tradition in Harry Potter of sexy long blonde hair making accent. So Geralt already works. And, and your skier is a bard. And like, we've we have things like wizard rock in this universe, it could slot in so easily, so so easily and simply. So I am I'm very excited about that. But also, like, I didn't know that I had a thing for Geralt until the bath scene, you know? And that I was like, oh, yeah, I totally see this now. And I don't know whether it was like the the idea of like, I don't know what it is about people being in baths that is so attractive to

you about seeing all of their skin Nathan, his rippling muscles and his little hairy chest all of that going on.

Doesn't make you seem like Hannibal at all just seeing their lovely skin Yes, I know what you mean. Yeah, I know. Like, I could see for instance, a scenario within which because we all know Lucy Yes, Malfoy is a bit of a narcissist. I could see Yeah, Lucy is Malfoy and Geralt together I absolutely could see that working.

I cannot because because Geralt is like unwinnable he's serious and like, and he's Lucius is this campy little like, well, oh, well wait, I guess if you If Lucy is this being Campion silly in the same way that yes, gear is Campion silly, then that certainly there's room for that. I dig

it back. Exactly. Exactly. That was where it was gonna go. And you took the words out. So I'm hacking into that. But like, yeah. I'll get into a lot of situations like this where I'm like, can I justify bringing home Harry into the Game of Thrones universe? can I justify bringing Charles Xavier for instance, over from the Marvel universe into the Harry Potter universe? I just love like, yeah, because because we talk all the time. It's in our common parlance about being out of your comfort zone. Right? And I just want to literally take that one step further. And like, how would this character respond to a world with magic? Is is telepathy? Just another form of magic expressed in a different way? In a different universe? Yeah, no.

Yeah. Well, isn't that what they say? All magic is is just science we haven't figured out yet. So yeah,

yes, exactly. And it's, it's just, it gives you so many opportunities to just be like, Yeah, I'm going to fully explore what magic means to me. And that's why it's so cool. Because when I get to talk about characters like Charles Xavier, you get, you get things like disability representation. And I know I've talked a little bit about that before with characters like moody in the franchise, but it's not. It's not really as transparent it's not really as like, obvious that that's necessarily what the author was going for. It's just that that that that character has certain quirks that make them who they are. And then of course it transpires that the person that we think is moody isn't moody all along, you know, it's crouch, Jr, etc, etc. But like, I love talking, just from because it's from a personal perspective. I love reading about fanfic characters with disabilities because then when they get into romantic situations that I'm invested in, I'm like, Yeah, I can see myself in it. And I'm like, Yeah, this is the great thing about fanfic generally, is that you Yes, if you like we can see ourselves in so many of these people. Why Would you not bring the universities together? Yeah,

yeah. On a present I've, I've, I going back to like, that's, that's what makes it so beautiful when you can make any character you want trans because you want to see yourself or see more representation in the things you'll consume. I've read some amazing fic, where instead of making a character dren trans, they make a character disabled or whatever. And it's and it's beautifully done. And it's like, I need more of this. I'm I'm just really glad we have we have this. Yeah, people are people are way too talented, really, to be doing this for free, and to just giving their creative juices to the world. Thank you for those juices I needed.

It got very visceral all of a sudden, thank you. Thank you. Oh, I won't close. I don't want to thank you for your skin or juices but thankful to you for exposing your raw talent to the world.

Go in a different way there.

What am I doing? Me? Bystander flower. I couldn't possibly intended to blow entendre Oh, no. Oh, dear. I ventured into smart again. We must let the church elders Okay. Coming coming back down. Okay. Nathan, for a minute, though. Is there anything like before we sort of get back into it? Sure. Is there anything else? broad brush that we haven't talked about that you wanted to bring up? Um,

I think the only the only other thing would just be mentioning specific like, a US that are popular in Harry Potter ones that we haven't gotten to yet. Like we talked about if Voldemort was good, but there's also like, if Voldemort wasn't there, like yeah, whatever. Just yeah. Don't worry about all the war stuff. We're just people hanging out like that. Or Harry, not being raised by the Dursleys being raised by James and Regulus or being raised by Snape.

Oh, let's let's do this. Let's talk about that. Because,

okay, so I need to know, this isn't my ship. This is my area. Why is Snape raising Harry called sever itis? I don't? I don't know. This is probably a mixed question she would probably know.

I don't I don't know. But I like to think of that Snape thinks of Harry as, like, an extension of himself. So it's like so itis of like, as a general suffix means an inflammation of something. So Snopes ego is so huge that he's literally conjured a child and made him that his own image

is that is one beautiful way to look at it. I do not know if it is accurate, but I did enjoy hearing.

No, it's definitely not accurate. Like established this. Like this.

I guess it makes

maybe maybe I can just

imagine her popping on like super serious. Actually.

Filming at the legal mags edit here. There'll be an insert right here to be like editing notes here. Actually what this means. Thanks, Max. She is love you. Yes. So so I don't know why it's cold. Coffee. could be several writers could be several dishes, depending on how you

but it is popular enough to have its own name like they have they have given it a name. Yeah, that's a common one. Yeah, cool Star raising Harry also

Oh, that's so wholesome. Either. Know that I love Wolfstar They belong together. They're destined for each other. That's just fact. But then them raising Harry together and being all cute about how they like spoil him growing up and all the little toys like him riding around a broomstick, it's just so wholesome. And it is and it adds the sort of cuddly fluffy dimension to Fick that I don't get to talk about often enough, but I'm really here for that to like just people getting to love each other wholesomely and in an environment where that never gets tarnished or salido or broken is so so important to me to read. I don't know what that says about me but I love it. It just makes it makes me blush. I get very happy about it. I'm just much as I'm here for the smart and we know that I'm also just here for the warm cuddly, comfy, domestic happy, you know, just people getting to be themselves. Yeah, I especially love the idea of Wolfstar Raising Harry because it's intimate to me that they're happiest when they discover their purpose together is bringing Hurry up. And like that they're not only united by their love, but by their love of this small child and that is so wholesome To me

that's exceedingly sweet. And you know what we're allowed to like multitudes we can enjoy the smell and the fluffy goodness. And

the eggs. Yes. Check you channeling Walt Whitman. This is very cerebral for our for our usual foray, like named hashtag Walt Whitman. We Rick funds, we really do contain multitudes. But no, it's just fine. Did you did you want to talk about the angst? A little bit like do you love to be?

I sometimes yes, sometimes no, I enjoy a happy ending. I don't like. So I like it to be resolved. But I one of the things that I enjoy about fanfiction is being able to feel feelings in a safe, controlled environment. So I love reading about like, for instance, Harry's horrible traumatic childhood with the Dursleys. And feeling all those feelings about like, you know what, that is awful. And I can feel it. Like, I think I left a comment on someone's thing. Like, this made me so sad. And I wanted to cry. That was exactly what I wanted when I started this fics. So thank you. So just to say that, yes, that that side of me also exists alongside the part that's like, just fluffy, happy, wholesome, like, huh, thank you. kinda thick. I enjoy both.

So is fanfic, this is going to seem like a wicked wacky idea. But bear with me. Can fanfic Do you think be used as a sort of emotional vaccine? Because you know, the way like the outside world is terrible, can be terrible, right? If you experience like the ultimate angst or sadness in a fic, and it's in that controlled burn, sort of a way where you know, you're going to be feeling some sort of a way, for the half an hour you read this thing? And that's exactly what you need. Is that the kind of, do you think that that imbues the reader with a kind of emotional resilience? Because it's escapism, so that then when you have to go back out with the outside world, and you know, do your adulty thing? You're, you're a little bit insulated from that, because you're like, Well, no, actually, I got to experience this thing in this fics. I'm reading. So it's like, it's been its own therapy, and that kind of way?

I don't know, that seems like a big question. And I'm, I can only speak for myself, like for some people maybe? Sure. For me, it's more like a treatment than a vaccine. Like, hey, I'm in my fields, and I don't know what to do about my depression, my anxiety, my, you know, whatever romantic feelings like, but if I read a thick, it's like a little taking a prescription and being like, okay, I can enjoy my like, happily ever after anxiety gets resolved with XYZ kind of thing, or not, or just, but but being able to see that course, from a beginning to an end, in a fictional setting is like, okay, we can do this. Or at least just like a shot in the arm of like, hey, there's some happiness in the world. Still, too. You don't need to exactly get too broken up.

Yeah. But what makes me optimistic about that is that not only did this writer, feel this sort of emotional intensity and want to put it down that way, but also recognize that there was something in it that we could all take from it and feel better as a result, even if you aren't reading angst, if that's what you need and what you want to read, then that's great. That's fantastic. And I'm so grateful to people for that, like you say, for their prodigious skill and their talent and their time, because not enough emphasis is put on how long it takes to write these fics. And some people write epic, epic works of fiction that are longer even books that, you know, they haven't been paid for, because technically, it exists in somebody else's world. But can I just say, the quality of the writing is exceptional. It is phenomenal. And look, I'm just I'm so grateful that moments like that exist, I mean, because they help us all feel better. And like, you mentioned the community earlier. If anything is gonna galvanized means you spirit like that. It's gonna be that emotional intensity of like, Oh, yeah. Have you read this fit? It made me feel this. Yes. You know,

that's exactly right. That kind of community building happens all the time like in the discord spaces that I'm a part of like, we just don't we all connect over squealing or flailing about this one thing that's happening in this one thing. And it's just love. I just, yeah, love letter to fandom. I there, there are definitely not great parts of that fandom. But there is a heck of a lot of good to be found there too. Yeah,

I feel like the not great parts about fandom, you could say that about the great parts about any element of life, there's always going to be a very, very tiny proportion of people that don't vibe don't gel and don't want to. And that that's unfortunate. But the vast majority, the vast number of people seem to want to actually create to make the space a better place to be like, How can I like, you know, even if it's a crappy fit, even if it's a thing that they'd like, they've gone into it thinking, I'm going to leave this space better now for having put this idea into it. Like, I just love that so much like one of the tropes that I absolutely adore is detective fiction that and like as this extends into Harry Potter, like the aura pairings that Harry or whoever it is, gets put on the same aura beat with and they end up you know, solving mysteries solving clues. I love that dynamic. Because to me, if you strip away the magic from Harry Potter, what you're left with, really is a series of mystery novels. And we forget that because we've read them all so many times that we know what happens we like now we know what the mystery is. But as I was reading them as a child and growing up through whatever, you don't know, what's on the back of quills head, you know, you don't know what the polyjuice potion is going to do. You know, you don't know if they like all of these things. They're all elements of mystery. And so to me, like when people do that detective fiction, it's why Sherlock crossover works so well without by the way is because it just shares so much of the same space where those just met like I love mystery. And I love anybody that can think to themselves ahead of time of where they want the reader to end up and then reverse engineer that narrative to be like, here are all the clues I need to lay out. Here's the things they need to discover. Here's the location they need to be in and the angle they need to see stuff out for this to happen. Exactly. There's a there's a science and an exactitude behind it and a level of meticulousness that I have read in some of your fics that is just or inspiringly brilliant, and I love it. Just well I just love detective fiction in general. And I actually think that some of the people that have written like mystery fics need to be being paid for the incredible writing because it's Oh, it's so so good.

I'm not I'm not smart enough to put all those pieces of the puzzle together and and make that

Okay, well we're gonna we're gonna agree to disagree there because like we both know that you're incredibly smart and you could absolutely do it but

but like, Okay, that was not me fishing but thank you.

Of course you went fishing but I still think the listeners deserve to know what a powerhouse you are. And I was almost gonna swear that I stopped myself because I felt so emphatically about your abilities and talent and skill that I was a little swear word almost slipped out swallow that right back down and pretend that it never oh

well, thank you for having me, Nathan. swear word or no?

Well, I am. I am. I feel very passionately about the like the fandom generally, but I feel like a lot of my enthusiasm for the fandom and its place in my heart is filtered through our friendship. So getting to do this with you today and talk about this in all its weird and wonderful Glory has been an absolute treat. And I'm so grateful to you my friend for sharing the time and the space with me through all my random tangents and never ending weird spacey moments that I'm just so you're good just the spirit of lunar love. God is invoked through me and I just wander off into the but yes, I thank you for for loving and appreciating me. Thank you Liz Thanks for putting up with a very interesting hour and a half probably won't be an hour and a half at the time this is down but but I really enjoyed getting to talk about other things that relate to Harry Potter but aren't necessarily always directly connected and the fact that we you know love so many fandoms i There should be space for more of that as well so I'm so delighted beyond measure to be have talked about that today and to have done it with you who I know is also just is equally as passionate about that as I am it was just such a golden time and opportunity and thank you so so much and I already can't wait for our crack ship episode it's got to be right

it is I mean that sounds so devious but

it's always just like can't wait for crack chips and you were like more

wonderful everyone Mac is a blessing

is fi has ideas this is what this means

yeah it yeah

Oh, anyway wait it's gonna be I suppose we better leave it there for today but we never have a sign off we never there's always like an awkward by and that's all we ever manage on this pod so I don't say I don't see that we have to do anything particularly significant because our listeners know and love the Care of Magical shippers podcast brand by now you know our socials reach out to us there if there are any other thoughts and you want to send them to me you can do them by carrier pigeon I guess or smoke signals are a good one. I'm in Northern Ireland they might take a while to get to me but depending on where in the world you are, but you know what I'm here for them and they love you and your thoughts are valid and I want you to feel seen and heard

Oh, just a little bonus little head Pat.

Yes listeners yes but obviously to you as well but you know we can say it in private Sorry, I'm dirty. Okay, I love you Nathan.