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So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropist, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
So let's get started. Are you Becky
favorite friend alert day on the podcast?
Podcast we've talked about bringing him on for so long. And He's finally here,
Tim get in this house. We are so excited that you're here want to introduce and give a proper introduction to just one of our favorite tech and marketing experts and geniuses in our sector. Tim San Antonio is a director of strategic partnerships at NEON one, if you don't know neon one, you should know neon one, they are just this incredible nonprofit software company designed for growth. They're built for good. And they power so much in the small to mid size, nonprofit space, from fundraising, communication events, all the things and the people are such an extension of the product. And I just want to give a little shout out to the neon one team because they're so kind they're so forward thinking collectively, all their platforms have raised more than $16 billion. We're going to talk to Tim today because we so value, this expertise he has on what technology can do to accelerate the relationship that you have with your donors. And today, we are diving deep into this eight month report. I'm telling you it is like Tim's fourth child. And he has been working on trying to understand the future of individual giving for nearly a year. And for anyone who's saying, Oh, this is another data conversation None. No, you need to buckle up, Stan, because this is data that is relevant to now to the moment that we're standing in right now. And we all need to be looking at what are the behaviors of individual givers right now. And this is going to be a comprehensive report on donor behavior. It's an in depth look at the future of individual giving in this post pandemic world. We're going to dive straight into it. Tim is so irreverent and funny and joyful and whimsical. And he's gonna bring so much heart to this conversation. So we're excited to dive in.
Oh, well, gosh, thank you. I'm excited to be here.
We want to get to know you. Tell us about where this desire and passion to pour into the sector comes from tell us where you grew up and how you got here.
Well, hey, so excited to be on the show. John Becky, who are some of my favorite people that I've met especially in in the the pandemic world for sure. I was born in New York City, actually, and then moved to upstate New York place called Newburgh, New York, eventually is where I really grew up third grade onward. And my father was work from home father, he's an author, science fiction, westerns, things like that. Oh, that's fascinating. Yeah, he's written 50 novels over 50 novels. He worked with Neil Gaiman and Stephen King and and Joyce Carol Oates. He edited Ray Bradbury. So I went to school in state school in New York called SUNY Plattsburgh, and was going to be a history major. And I always wanted to teach, I was always eventually saying, I want to be an educator, right? And after graduating, I said, Okay, I'm going to go into academia, because I want to be a professor. And what that means is that I need to rack up some stuff after my name that has letters after it. So I was like, who I have an opportunity to get to Master's degrees in two years. So I went into debt, and move to Ireland got a degree in culture and colonialism for the National University of Ireland in Galway, and then I moved back to New York City and got a degree in history of education from Teachers College, Columbia University. So I was kind of sick of being on the East Coast. And I said, Okay, I'm likely to get a PhD acceptance from a school in the Midwest. So I'm going to go live out there. So I said, Okay, I know people in Chicago, let's go there. So I ended up going to Chicago, getting coffee shop jobs while waiting to get accepted into PhD programs got rejected two rounds, and my dad's like, get a job. And it was 2008. And I got a grant writing job because I was like, I want to go help people. I guess I'm gonna give up on my academia dream because I was gonna be a labor historian. That's what I want to do is like, like, look at working class, working class movements and things like that. Not unions, but what like the average person is doing on the ground. I've worked for a few nonprofits and then kind of eventually learn my way around how to be a good fundraiser. Because when I got into fundraising, I was like you do events, right? Like that's what fundraising is right? Like, I learned my way through and a big break was working for a school that had a really solid structure in in how they did fundraising. It was a Catholic school in the Rogers Park neighborhood of Chicago. And I just learned databases, razor's edge, 100 hours of training on that platform, really good structure, you know, focus on good copy, focus on good engagement and appeals management. And then it was weird, though, coming from my background, getting a check for $10,000. The first week I was there, I didn't do anything. It was just like, here's $10,000, can you process this, and I'm like, this is 1/9 of my entire first jobs budget. And I didn't do any work to get this. And so understanding that there's economic disparities in nonprofits and the resources and a lot of it is when you invest in abundance, then that comes back to you. But a lot of the jobs that I had, there wasn't that mindset. And so when I had the opportunity, there was a place called z two systems offering this database called neon, which stands for nonprofit enterprise operations network, folks. By the way,
there's an acronym, it's I had no idea. It's an acronym.
So long and short. I said, Oh, this is really interesting. I can combine my emerging love of technology and data with with fundraising and helping people and I can help hundreds of organizations. So when we started just with the CRM, it was 300 organizations, we had about 300,000 in annual recurring revenue. And then now we're serving 10s of 1000s of nonprofits with what what, what we call connected fundraising. So it's not just CRM, it's, Hey, I need online forms. And I need payment processing and events. And there's giving days and there's peer to peer. And everybody always uses three to five different sources for this stuff. So we're like, let's actually look at that data flywheel completely, to understand it just beyond the CRM, like communications and fence and individual meetings and all this type of stuff. So it allows us to do this type of report analysis because of that philosophy and that focus.
I mean, I love your winding story. I mean, how beautiful is this, but let me just say, I love Tim, because you know, we met sometime in the last year, but we'd had a lot of mutual friends for a long time before that. But the thing that is just so magnetic about you is you are so generous and you truly like love the space that you serve you love perpetuating you have this abundance mindset. It's not about trying to grow neons customer base, although you believe in it, obviously, it's a great product. But you also just see the the uprising that can happen as we all learn that it's not just about data, it's about this holistic picture. It's about helping each other. It's about lifting voices. And you do all that so well. And that's what really this report is. I love the context that you've given them, because I'm like, of course, he would geek out and dive into this. Because God
love you that somebody does. Thank you. Thank you for Cliff Notes for the rest of us. We appreciate it.
Well, and I know we'll get into the content of it. But But folks listening just know that like I came from it because I would download these reports as a fundraiser and just go, I don't know what I'm supposed to do with it is, am I supposed to go buy something now? Yeah, like is that is that like, the thing I'm supposed to do is go buy a product in order to make more money for my nonprofit. And that's the last thing that I want people to come out of this is that there's a lot that we can do if we think about the connections of technology, facilitating and accelerating our work, but technology itself is not the answer. We make it so hard to actually use technology. And it gets in the way of what we should be focusing on, which is building relationships with people, it should be opening things up not getting in our way.
Well, I'm going to put us in the world, especially knowing your dad's like a serial author. This is your first authorship of this report, and you wanted to go deep into individual giving. So kind of lay the groundwork for what this report does. I love the voices that you also brought into this conversation. It's not just a, you know, a data report. It's got so much good narrative and meat around it to where you kind of cast vision, what does it do and what can people expect as they pour into it?
So the reports entitled donors understanding the future of individual giving. So the idea of this was that there's a lot of data that's getting thrown out from sources when you dig underneath. And because I've even seen people on like LinkedIn and things like that. They're like, well shows that household givings down and see this and then they cite like a nonprofit Times article that is just regurgitating another thing. What I've been seeing a lot in the nonprofit space is a version of that where the narrative is people are not as generous US household giving is down While was us, the reality, though, is one, there hasn't been anything really deeply diving into what's happened since March 2020. And how has it not shifted in turn to I think that's important too, because we you can go one or two ways, depending on your agenda. Right. And that was one of the things that I set out to do with this report was, everybody does have an agenda. But my agenda was to tell the data as it is, there's a lot of vendors out there that if the data doesn't look good, they're not going to put it out. And I said, You know what, let's tell the truth, let's tell what's actually happening. And that's why it was also important to benchmark, any findings that we did during this against larger known data trends for something like the Fundraising Effectiveness Project, which is the largest dataset of individual giving in the world. It's overseen by Association of Fundraising Professionals, and giving Tuesday's data collaborative. So we know it's great. And the methodology has influenced us at NEON one for years to make sure that when somebody sees this, they can trust it. So with that, we set out and said, Let's look at people as people, let's look at donors as not a transaction. But what goes into driving, why someone's going to give so I set out to answer six key questions. Who, what, when, where, why, how? Donors, basically, why how are they giving? Why are they giving? Where are they giving, etc, and so forth? And from that each chapter is that question, who are our donors? What do they support? Where are they giving, but we take it in really fun and unique ways to like, when we talk about where are our donors, I actually do touch on, it's not geography, it's also what channel? are they responding to? Are they going online? Are they giving and responding to text messages, we touch on that?
We're so excited about it. And I really like the tone that you set just with building trust. Because I mean, that's the bedrock of what we do in these in building these relationships. And, frankly, I want to know the truth. I want to know the ugly and hard truth. And, you know, I think one of the things that I like about what you've educated me on is the way that we use the data in the past. It's so tactical. And you have really set up this report to move away from like, this is what you should do to rather just informing this is what's happening. So can you talk just for a second about how this report is going to differ from other data reports out there, like the Giving USA report and all these other reports that we're used to seeing each year?
Yes. So I want this to be a document that drives positive behavior around all donors. A lot of the narratives are like major donor focus, major donor cultivation. And the reality is that we have a unique opportunity that data is very clear from Fundraising Effectiveness Project, not just neon, there still continues to be people who say, givings down households are down. It's like, no, there was a reversal during the pandemic. And that downward trend has slowed, if not reversed, and went back up. People are generous people are giving, ultimately, we have an opportunity. But that window is closing, that's the issue is that that window for us to take that opportunity as a sector, and embrace a new paradigm of donor relationships, we might fall back into old patterns. And we're going to revert back into a done downward slide if we don't embrace that time. And I do think, because of what's happening in the workplace, what's happening with folks like you reenvisioning education, we are going to do it, I feel positive that we're going to we're going to change it. But I wanted to say we need a resource to start that conversation. And that's what I was hoping to fill the gap, therefore, well, you're
certainly doing that. And I think there's so many like takeaways, and I want you to lift you know, maybe two or three of the most surprising things that two that came out of the data for you, but I have to lift one and I'll start because I think this is so cool, is you did a deep dive into race and ethnicity and how that kind of informs giving. And I want you to share what you found because I think this is something that we all need to lean into and recognize you know, as a society,
yes, what I did on that one is do what people should properly do which is let people of color speak for themselves. And so within the report, I cite amazing research for instance from the vaid group. It was a deep analysis on the on high net worth individuals of color who, what's their giving patterns and what there's their giving behavior is so so I wanted to find really, really good resources, and elevate those, and then also bring in voices to to help expand what we should be doing there. So the structure of the report that best represents what we're talking about here is chapter one, which is Who are our donors, and a lot of it is demographics psychographics, in terms of like, gender, sexuality, race, class, you know, which we hate talking about in the United States, right. And so then the chapter ends after looking at some really fascinating research on black households, for instance, the Federal Reserve has flagged that per income per capita, they are the most generous overall, then that's paired with guest insight from Sabrina Walker Hernandez amazing talked about saying, then what we did was we invited her in and said, and the way I did it was, I flagged six guest insight perspectives, and said, the floor is yours. I'm not editing anything of yours, unless it's grammatical, go for it in terms of your content. And she said, I'm going to talk about bias against black philanthropists, how fundraisers may be passing over opportunities for folks that don't look like them, necessarily. And there's been data that Sabrina has also brought to the table here from I think it was the Stanford Social Innovation Review that said, black philanthropists and Latino philanthropists do want to give and they give, but they're not asked. And so that's something that we do throughout the report is bring in those guest insights, even from donors themselves. And then the other piece is that the report itself, some people might get really intimidated by hearing it's 87 pages. We're breaking that up. Don't worry, there's infographs. We're doing podcast interviews that do summary information, we are doing short courses that might dive into a specific perspective, like Sabrina did do that about building donor relationships. But she talked about bias. I've charged every single contributor, every single person, I've said to them, I want you to address head on this primary question that I'm assigning you, such as Who are our donors. And if you are doing something that we've seen before, break it, do something different. I don't want to see the same narrative. We need to rethink things. And that's what everybody's been doing so far. And they've loved that opportunity. Yeah, it's been really energizing to build out the whole campaign.
Hey, friends, we've got to pause the podcast for a minute, we have some really exciting news to share.
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Well, I think just as a storyteller, I just want to compliment you because you don't often see reports or data pulled from story and from people that are in the trenches it you know, doing the hard work, and that was the thing that excited me the most when I got sort of a preview of this report before we actually had this podcast, and it just lifts the voices of the people who are doing the hard work and I want to thank you for that because we keep talking about this been a recurring theme on the podcast. I feel like the last Couple months is that the people who have answers to the most systemic problems in the world are the ones affected by it. And if you go straight to it, then we can get those answers. And so what you've really built is sort of this beautiful mosaic of many voices lifting, things that are typically taboo things that people don't want to talk about, but also interesting ways to look at things we're already doing. And that is what I think will make this report wholly unique and separate from the others. One of
the things that we did, and you folks appreciate this and actually did influence this is centrally centered community. And so the report itself was built through crowdsourcing of feedback from actual members of what we call the connected fundraiser community,
because community is everything. It's like literally what we preach. I love it. Okay, let's rapid fire some cool things in this report. Okay, golden time to give I love that you've actually figured this out. Statistically, this is just fascinating. Tim, give us this.
We're kind of talking about amorphous things, right. So practically speaking, when we get into the data folks, John's referring to, I had a hypothesis that people would get buzzed on the weekend and start giving Thursday morning at 11:30am. central time is when we analyze the timestamps of all the millions upon millions of online transactions that we have, because people are donating through our online forums and you know, things like Apple Pay and Google Pay Now, it means it's really easy to know when exactly somebody is giving. And across the board and I in what I want to do next folks is filter by mission as well and go do environmental organizations have a different time that people tend to give, but across all our client base 11:30am Central Time, is when donors are most likely to give on line fascinating now, is it because they're asked at that time? Or is it because that's when they prefer to give that is the actual real question to answer NES
hit us with some more like what surprised you? What was shocking to you? What's the greatest opportunity? Like let's hit us in with some of these insights?
Surprised? Okay, so one of the surprising things that came out of it was recurring giving, spiking during the summer months. So there's a typical dip in summer giving kind of that summer slump. Now, it varies by mission type I did find but across the board, we typically find that there's a dip in like July, right. But when we looked at recurring giving initiations and the flow like when are you more likely to see recurring gifts start to come in summer, like July through November is the healthiest time to actually start really ramping up your recurring giving programs. So that helps point to strategically, okay, instead of like dumping all my effort into some random event that I'm supposed to do in summer, maybe I should be while people are out and about, give them an opportunity to live their mission through a recurring giving program like a properly branded, recurring giving program. So that was an interesting one that I found inside the data, the geography stuff was really talking about the geography piece, we indexed analysis of donor information by IP address, as well as address information in the database. Well, utterly anonymizing the donor themselves, just trying to understand where somebody was physically located, and then index that against zip codes. And then we filtered by mission, and we filtered by gift type. And I found people in Arizona who are religious really get a lot of money. For instance, California dominated it when it came to a lot of like online giving. But if you started to divide by the number of donors, not just the volume of money, that story is much more interesting to me. So we did that too. So we filtered it by stock giving by wire transfers by online giving a lot of interesting stuff there.
I do want you to just real quickly because I you had Asha Karen, yes, like the founder of Giving Tuesday, speak into this and I and then there's a section on Giving Tuesday, I would love for you since you mentioned it to like lift in Insight. You know, as people are starting, you know, they'll start planning for that probably the summer and we'd love to give them some insights.
So Giving Tuesday is an extremely close partner of neon one. And so Asha, gave insight with Woodrow Rosenbaum, the chief data scientist on the nonprofit sector being afraid of feelings and all the myths that we have to have to confront. But giving Tuesday in particular, the data is very clear beyond neons dataset. This is where pfap Because Giving Tuesday over sees the database at this point. And their data scientists are helping us comb through this. And Giving Tuesday is one of the most highly effective acquisition vehicles for a nonprofit to invest in. And the Giving Tuesday, naysayers, I just the data's just not there folks. Think about those moments, which does link back to some of the other parts of the report on creating exceptional giving moments, Giving Tuesday, we need those lightning strikes of generosity and giving Tuesday as one of the things if not one of the most effective vehicles for creating a generosity moment at your own individual organization. So a lot a lot of great stuff on Giving Tuesday that we cite, because we have a good partnership with them.
Well, I got to jump in here and get on my soapbox about giving Tuesday because I love I saw on the report that Giving Tuesday donors the recurring rate for the retention of them is 75%. So if we're looking at industry average around like what 40 to 45%, that recurring 75% tells you that that is an effective time to to have a campaign. So I just want to like give a little pro tip here for anybody. Giving Tuesday should not be a one day event, you should not look at it, you should not market it, you should not steward it as a one day event. These are donors who have been almost conditioned to give on this day and they are looking to their pet charities to help them understand how they can be a blessing to that charity on that day, put some strategy around that put some intentionality around it. If this is the only time you talk to these donors is on Giving Tuesday, it's probably going to fall flat. Because I've heard the same thing you have heard Tim where it's such a crowded space, and it's so noisy that day. Well, your people if they're already there, they don't notice how noisy it is because they just noticed that their pet charity is saying this is how we're pouring into this day and into this movement. And we've got a really cool way that you can do that.
And ultimately, the call to action out of the report is I want us to think about things from a generosity and abundance mindset, not from philanthropy, capital P. Right, like giving Tuesday the most common action that people are doing is is is donating. But the least common action is only donating they are doing other things to support their their favorite organizations. And as Mark Phillips of Blue Frog consulting says our donors are not our donors. And the research also shows that the average donor is giving between five to seven nonprofits, especially the high net worth individuals Bank of America's 2021 study. I was like, Oh, this is really interesting where it showed folks are giving to multiple charities our analysis with Professor searing showed people are giving to multiple charities giving days community giving days that we power such as give Nola Miami gives things like that multiple charities. And so the big issue to address collectively is as E commerce becomes to drive people's buying behavior, because that's what our friends at visa were able to show us in the report is that transaction behavior from E commerce heavily influences how people think about charitable giving. If we actually take away from that the lesson is we need to be more like E commerce. That's bad for the individual nonprofit, what we need to actually do is say, we need to make things easy, but we need to take our own spin on it and show the value of specifically investing in a nonprofit and my nonprofit, how do I validate you as a donor and your identity by going donating not to Patagonia's you know, add $1 to save the environment thing on your checkout, but instead to say, I love my local environmental Nature Center. And that's how I want to show that I'm a person who cares about the environment. And so all of these are intertwined from a behavior standpoint. And Giving Tuesday is one of the best ways that we can collectively go the nonprofit space is very generous in particular. Let's show that globally.
Well, I mean, Tim, you've poured so much into this I know any author feels like with this much work this much intention. You want to activate people like you want to get it in hands. What how can people engage with this report? We're definitely gonna point to the link to get it but how do you engage with it? What do you do with it?
Love that. So So I want to make sure that we continue this conversation collectively. I want us to take this research and then reflect on it and I want to do that in ways that either are saying that's why I'm putting the research out there for people to use on their own. So if you are an academic if you are a Soltan take this data and present it say, what can we learn from this. The other thing is we are building out our own capabilities for people to communicate. So we're going to continue to invest in our community, we're going to continue to give them prompts and behavior support. And then we're going to continue to work with folks like John and Becky here to help guide people through that from a strategy standpoint, to reframe it away from a scarcity mindset into an abundance mindset. So boards understand, we need to invest in this, because the data shows we will return on this. So this is why I'm so excited to start to drill and create supporting resources around geography and mission. So people can personalize it to their own organization. So the website, donor data hub is a good start. But I want to empower people with more resources and people who are interested in creating their own resources around this. Let me help. So Tim, at NEON one.com, you can drop me a line and let's have a conversation and and we could build this together. That's what I'm interested in doing?
Well, I'm going to offer up two suggestions to everybody in the community one, if you're someone who's trying to develop your thought leadership right now, particularly in the sector, I really encourage you a great little strategy would be go in, read this report, and do a little social or a blog post about what you thought about it, what you pulled out of it what you thought was the greatest takeaway, and then bringing your community and say, What did you think? What do you what's working in your shops, this is how we start to socialize these trends that that we want to be norms, and it really starts with I love that you said that Tim, like educating and getting in community to talk about this. And the second thing I'll just say is, we're going to put this report in our community, and we're going to have conversation around it. So please go to we're for good community.com, I have a feeling that we've got such a robust community in there, I want them to read the report, I want them to high sign with their favorite parts are and let's figure out how we can just get these messages out there. It was such a great tip to talk about how you inform your board, how you socialize this to your donors. I just love this. I appreciate you pouring your heart and soul into this. I can just feel your passion through it, Tim? And it's the question I think that everybody's been wondering is where are we now? And where do we need to go? And how has just the last two years changed everything about our mindsets and having that grounded and growth, mindset and abundance mindset, man, you're our people. And we are here for that. And I love that that's the basis, you're just such a seasoned professional, you have such a great story. We want to know, you know what inspires you. We want to know about a full story of philanthropy that has touched your heart personally, that could be you know, in your research, it could be in your time at NEON, it could be when you were a kid, can you share a story with us of a time where you really felt like you saw the power of philanthropy at work in your life.
For my 30th birthday, I someone insanely decided to throw my own fundraiser, I called it the Tim tacular. And the brand, I charged people $65 To attend my birthday party with the understanding that it would get them access to food and beer at a local brewery in Chicago. But that all the proceeds after that would go and benefit for charities that had a personal that I had a personal relationship with. It was an extraordinarily large amount of effort. And $5,000 is great. But like I probably would have been better off just putting up a personal fundraising page and telling people to donate through that. And so that was very personal to me and my wife, I'm turning 40 in April and I was originally I was like I'm gonna I want to think about doing that. And she's like, you're not no.
Dollars Tim's gonna raise a million dollars.
So there you go. Yeah.
Okay, Tim, you know how our podcast ends is we ask you to give us our year one good thing, what's something you'd leave with our community today?
The future is not set in stone. And I know that a lot of times it seems that when you're trying to change the world, the world seems like it can hit back pretty hard. And the reality is, is that we need to find the the the daily wins and things that energize us in the details in those little moments in our work, and that's personal and professional. And so you know, pull the Ferris Bueller and you know, stop and look around. Basically
a perfect Chicago reference right there.
Right full circle. It's full circle.
Okay, a moment of truth. Where can people get this report? Where can they connect with you? I definitely want to give a little shout out to following Tim on LinkedIn, he has incredible thought leadership there, that would be a great place to start if you even want to get some socialization on this, but let us know about the report for sure.
Yeah, so the easiest thing, obviously, the show notes are going to have a more dedicated URL. But But neon one.com We have a resources section where if you're just kind of like, not remembering the slash part or anything like that, like me right now, um, that you could just go to neon one.com and and find it under our resources section, which also have webinars and other guides and blogs. And actually we're going to be doing supporting blogs throughout this to our newsletter is going to continue to have this type of stuff, as well. But the report, neon one.com Find me on LinkedIn, I think I think I'm gonna try the newsletter thing on LinkedIn. Oh, good. Little bit of public accountability. I might try to start that next week. So it'll
be awesome. Well, we are just very grateful that you would choose to pour into the sector in such a giving and democratic way. I just think these insights are going to help lift and innovate and challenge us to keep pushing the sector forward. Thanks for coming in with your humor and your edutainment and just your wonderful friendship. It's just a joy to spend time with you and just appreciate the work at NEON one so much.
Thank you so much for having me. And we appreciate and love working with you folks, too. So looking forward to the future. Thanks, Tim
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