riverside_melysa_full _ sep 5, 2024 001_radical_massage the

9:58PM Sep 7, 2024

Speakers:

Krista Dicks

Melysa Nelson

Keywords:

feel

people

massage therapy

massage

treat

rmt

massage therapist

work

mental health

clients

love

important

guess

career

treatment

therapists

body

practicing

part

degree

Hello radical massage therapist, and welcome to another episode of the radical massage therapist podcast. I'm your host, Krista, registered massage therapist and clinic owner in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. Lucky for you, I am not the radical massage therapist, but you are. You want to learn more about the benefits of a massage career, such as freedom, flexibility, financial success and fun outside of your career, of course, not just inside your career, more fun outside. I hope these episodes will inspire you to create a really awesome life around a sustainable massage career. My guest today is Melissa Nelson. She has been a practicing RMT for just over 12 years, and considers herself a passionate advocate for the progression of massage therapy. She loves to educate the public on the benefits of massage therapy and why relaxation massage is the most important fundamental modality in treatment, because all massage therapy is therapeutic when provided by an RMT. Over her career, she has worked with a variety of conditions, but over the last couple of years, she has moved the main focus of her practice into treating the upper body, specifically the head, neck and face. She also has a special focus on nervous system regulation and providing massage therapy as a mental health support. She has taken multiple trainings, including myofascial cupping, advanced cupping for the head, neck and face. Kawasha, acupressure, trauma informed massage and Mental Health First Aid. Currently, she is working towards her reflexology registration and plans to offer both auricular and facial reflexology. We did have some technical glitches in this episode, so there are a few stops and starts that you might catch in the editing, and I did my best to kind of keep the flow, but some of the audio did not record, and that's really disappointing, but I do apologize, and Melissa was a really great sport about this, and we still managed to create a really awesome episode. And I do hope you enjoy this episode with Melissa.

Melissa, welcome to the radical massage therapist podcast. I am super excited to have you here.

Thank you for having me

Melissa, can you give us a little bit about your background, where you are practicing, how you got into massage therapy?

Um, well, I so I've been practicing for 12 years now. I have my own office. I basically have been a self employed RMT for the last, I guess, about 10 years I work, I've worked as an independent contractor. I was an employee when I first started out,

so I've had all the different, you know, versions of how you can work as an RMT. And I also work part time as an independent contractor at a second location. That has been really, actually quite good to get me reconnected with my colleagues. You know, when you work alone, it kind of be a little bit that's

a little bit lonely sometimes, but it's so it's been good in that way. And my background, I guess, I mean, I, I've done a lot of different trainings, you know, I've been your typical, RMT, your I see everybody, I treat everything. And I would say that now I'm more focused on things that I feel more connected to, personally and professionally. So upper body focused treatments, headaches, migraines, TMJ dysfunction, and then a lot around mental health support. I think that's really important. And I would say that I got into massage actually as a kid, which is, like, one of those kind of weird things, like, I used to give massages to my sisters when I was growing up as, like, early teen, and I would charge them $1 a minute. But I really didn't get into massage until later in life. So I went back to school at 29 and I so I was a mature student, and it already had a career, and just it just didn't work out. So it's kind of how I got into massage

awesome. Are you able to share what your career was prior to massage therapy? Yeah,

I worked in hospitality. So I had started out working in hotels. So I was like a front end supervisor at a hotel in Winnipeg, and then I moved into travel. So I worked in the travel industry for five ish years. And then, of course, it kind of just changed, and I just it didn't feel aligned. It was very stressful, actually, which you think, like, how could it be stressful? But it was very stressful. It it got to the point where I was, like, waking up at night, worrying if I had called in to tour operator to make a final payment for somebody. And it was just like, there was so many timelines and deadlines. And it. A lot, and I just felt it wasn't for me anymore. And obviously the industry felt the same because I got laid off. So that was that. And then I came back. I came to massage, yeah, right. And

what do you love the most about your massage therapy career right now? Um,

you know, I think for me, massage has always been just something that I feel, I guess I feel like, as a most massage therapist, like we're caretakers, we like to help people. And so I feel like, for me, the joy of helping somebody feel better, honestly, making them feel seen, I feel that's the most I guess the most rewarding part of being a massage therapist is making them feel better, whether it is physically but also emotionally. So I would say that's probably my favorite part of being a massage therapist. I

love that. So as my podcasts go, they're not usually linear, because we've I've already got a lot of questions just based on those first few minutes that are unrelated to questions that I already have for you. But I'm curious if your background in hospitality and then travel, if you feel like that's given you almost an advantage in your massage career, as far as like, client care, understanding the needs of an individual meeting those needs, kind of going above and beyond. Has that translated into your massage career? I

would say that, yes, it's been good, but it's also not and not I would say when I first started, was more around that, that kind of familiar phrasing of that the client or the customer is always right. And I think I like I've been in customer service my entire life. I have had a job since I was a teen, and I've worked in many different roles, working with public and so, yes, that's given me a lot of advantage in that I've seen many different people I've I've been in situations that have been maybe confrontational with unhappy clients or guests or whatever that looks like, and it's been my responsibility to try and resolve that issue. And ultimately, everybody just wants to be heard, right? So I think that that conflict resolution skills that maybe I've developed has been very advantageous. When I was in school, we had our clinic, and I always got booked in last with whoever was coming in. So I was always the last student RMT assigned to a person for the day. And I was always like, why am I why it just, it was just like, end of the clinic. It was like, I was already a senior, and I was like, Why am I always the one that's like, like, why don't you I just get whoever's last? And the supervisor said to me, and I it was probably the best compliment I could ever give and it get. And it was because I know that no matter who I put you with, it will go, well, wow. And I was like, Well, that's good. So I guess, yeah, those skills really do translate into career wise, like I just type, people are people, and I treat everybody the same. And it doesn't matter where you come from and what your background is and how much money you have, you're all the same. So I think that has, even I've gotten over the customers, always right thing a little bit that that that can be a hard thing to deal with. Sometimes, when you're like, I want to be, but I also have policies. So yeah, oh, 100% and

I would say that I feel like today, I know that people still try to argue for the customers, always right, especially if they're the customer. But I feel like there are a lot more larger brands now that are really pushing back against that virgin in particular, I know that they the customer is not right. If you are being belligerent to customer service, you are not right, and they will stand behind their employee, if they're, if they are being abused, essentially, they'll, they'll be like, no, like, you're not right in this scenario, because you're being a terrible human being. So I think that that you're right. Policies, procedures in place are important. Boundaries are important. It doesn't, it doesn't always translate to the customer. Is always right. And I feel like most of us are understanding that these days and larger brands too. So no, that's really important to distinguish. I get it. Okay, so rolling into what you also said there, you weren't feeling connected maybe with, you know, the treat everything for everybody, and my attraction to you was certainly around your niching into your the upper body treatments, head, neck and facial massage. Where would you like to start off with this? When did you start feeling disconnected and what attracted you more? To the upper body treatments,

I would say that I started to probably feel disconnected around the time of the pandemic starting. That was probably when, you know, I had gone through a pretty significant issue with a former business partner, and that was really a trying, difficult time, and that ended, and I was just starting to kind of catch my breath, and I was right rolled into the pandemic, unfortunately, being off work for six, six ish weeks, and then not having the ability to work full time because of the capacity restrictions. I think that really, that became really noticeable at that point that I was struggling mentally, and I was struggling to deliver. I was struggling to give to my patients in a way that I felt that they deserved. So I had to start looking for ways that maybe one allowed me to reconnect, bring back some joy and positivity in massage, and also what ways might be helpful to my patients who were struggling more than ever with their mental health. And I always kind of was soothed by somebody playing with my hair or, you know, just, you know, and then I thought, well, what? What if I just tried these things on myself. So I started doing facial massage, and I just thought, this is really nice. Like, this is real. Like, it feels really nice. And so then I just kind of started to gradually start doing it in sessions. And and then I thought, I really like this. This feels great. And so it kind of started around, I would say, within the first year of pandemic life and and it's just kind of continued from there. I feel like it's an overlooked area of the body. We don't really do a lot of treatment focus on the face, even though there are multiple conditions that can be treated just by doing the face and head. And so I just, I thought, this is a missing opportunity to treat people's you know, can like headaches and migraines and neck pain, and we know the connections. And I just saw that as being, like I said, a missed opportunity. And for me, I just really liked doing it. So I thought, why not?

I think you're right about that, that we just clients don't even know to request that they don't even know that it's an option sometimes, that they can get their head massage, they can have their face massaged, and which is always really lovely when you can say, well, you know, these headaches like, you know, and you're also mentioning, like, you grind your teeth, like, hello, like, can I work on on your your jaw and your face, and they kind of go you like you can do that. So there's still so much more education on our side as well to to bring that to the public. But what a wonderful way to you know there's something to offer your clients and provide that little something extra that does feel so lovely. And I also feel like because, and I know you're, you're big on this, and we'll also talk about it. I mean, you're, you're very big on us being recognized as healthcare professionals. And maybe there's also that stigma about like playing with somebody's hair, or those soothing techniques that are more intimate in some ways, like we have, you know, their sensual touch in, you know, in some to some degree. So maybe we shy away from those techniques as well, just to make sure that we're showing those clear boundaries as healthcare provide professionals, but you obviously have been able, you know, to to find the balance. Yeah, I

mean, there, there are many courses and modalities out there that I think that we, we again, we are, you're right. We associate it with being a less than healthcare kind of approach, right? You know, things that you would see in a spa, things that you would get with an esthetician. And, you know, there is obviously a little bit of that connotation that we have to be careful about when we are delivering our services, but focusing on being clinical, we overlook the opportunity to actually give the body and the person in that body the chance to heal. And without that state of relaxation, we don't actually get them to healing. So I think we, I think as we've kind of started to move toward this evidence based, you know, approach, and the more clinical and the more we're therapeutic, which we absolutely, absolutely need to do, we have started to kind of push that other stuff aside as being it's not, it's not professional, it's not, it's not what we should be doing to encourage or promote the field, but it's the base. This, of all that we do, we warm up with Swedish massage techniques. So that's relaxation massage. So I think that we can't lose that, because it's a very important fundamental for, you know, the treatment. And guess what? Hydrotherapy is the therapy. So we're going to use heat, we're going to use ice, we're going to use those things. How we apply them. It doesn't make it less therapy. So whether we use hot stones or a like a hydroculator pack, it's still hydrotherapy. So I think we don't, I don't want to lose the important parts of what massage therapy actually is which is making that person feel better, managing their pain, encouraging all those healthy, normal system regulation things that we do by focusing only on, well, I'm just going to, I'm just going to treat this soft tissue injury, right? I think we have such an OP like an awesome opportunity to show people what massage therapy really, really is, and not just about reacting to their, you know, the injury that they just sustained. And so it's just an interesting, I guess, maybe something I start to see more as I've gotten, like, longer in the field where, you know, and even maybe I was guilty of it myself, where I kind of dismissed some of those things as being less than, you know, professional, or less than the value that they actually held just to be a registered massage therapist, if that makes sense, we really want people to see us as being healthcare providers, and so we stay in the clinical vein, which is, you know, obviously really important, but we forget those things that help to people get into that nervous system regulation, that that parasympathetic shift, that we need to actually get our body to that healing state. So I think I think I probably was one of those RMTS. When I first started out, I was so much more focused on healing people, like fixing people and not helping them heal. So it's a forgotten, I think it's a forgotten part about massage therapy. Can

you expand on that a little bit more that you were focused on fixing people versus helping them them healing. I

mean, it seems like such a weird thing to say, I know because, you know, people come in and they want us to fix that injury that they're feeling, that chronic pain that they're in and and, you know, I think we kind of get stuck on the we we want to go at it in a way that we are like, obviously, there are treatment protocols for a reason, and, you know, we want to safely assess and treat people's, you know, injuries and conditions, but I think we just kind of forget that that's a person and it's not just an injury. And so the fixing versus helping somebody to heal is more about looking at that person on your table as being a human being that has other things going on in their lives that affect their quality and feeling that affect their ability to get treatment that and it comes from that bio psychosocial model. And I think it's really, it's really been a key thing for me in the last, I would say, four to five years as being an influencer, as in how I how I treat people. You know, I don't attack the body like I used to. I don't, I guess I was told I have a I have a slow approach, which I think is important, like your body has been in a state of flight, like fight or flight or restriction, for how, however long, and you only go get a massage every three months, like, or more than that. I guess some people and you, there's just, there's just no way for that work to be effective if you're only getting somebody attacking it, it's, it's, it's actually trying to get away from like, I think that that's where my practice has progressed, and I hope that I can influence new grads coming out, the students that we see in our clinic, and then the younger, you know, the younger RMTS into stop trying to fix everything for that person In that 60 minutes. Because that's not going to happen. To happen. That condition has been there for years or a long time, and start focusing on helping that person just to feel better. I think pain response like our our number one job is pain management, so let me help you feel better, and then we can talk about getting you, hopefully improve and resolve your issue.

Yeah, I definitely agree with you that this is the same direction I'm I'm practicing now that I'm allowing the body to let me in. I'm not push. Anymore. I'm not. I've been in practice for 18 years, and I'm not afraid to just be confidently like this is how I treat now. And if it's not for you, that's okay, if you still where I'm curious about your experience is, how are you helping clients adjust to this new this new way of of just helping them heal and helping them their body to relax and come out of fight or flight when in their mind, they're like, Okay, in 60 minutes, I want to have be rid of this condition that I've had for 10 plus years. Yeah,

and it's tricky, because, you know, I think what I've seen in my career is that people want to get in and get undressed and get on the table in 30 seconds of meeting you, and they don't. I think we're part to blame, because we don't utilize our assessment in a way that is necessary, we'll say, um, I'm certainly not as advanced in my assessment as some RMTS that I'm aware of, but asking questions is really important. So when I see a new client, they come in for a longer appointment, and that first 15 minutes is all assessment, initial, initial consultation, discussion. It's all around finding out how long they've had this injury. What kind of things does it disrupt? What have they done for it? You know? What makes it feel better? What makes it feel worse? What you know? What's their expectation? What's their commitment to trying to resolve it? I let them know that I'm not going to just take your pain away. Generally, it doesn't work that way, especially if you've had this going on for a long time. So I hope to you know, I ask what their expectations are, and then I hopefully try and manage those expectations. So for me, I spend more time having a conversation with my patients. I think that is really important. And we're in a rush to get them on the table. And most clinics, I know, we're like, just get them on the table so they get their 60 minutes. And I'm like, but they're not getting 60 minutes of massage. They're getting 60 minutes of my time as a healthcare provider. So it's a bit of a it's a bit it's a bit of a difficult thing to to do, and people are only used to what they've known. But my new clients, I asked them to give me some time, and I say, like, if you want this to to improve, I ask that you give me the opportunity to help you, so I want to see you every week for four weeks. I might change that depending on the person and the condition and what area we're treating, but I ask them to commit to coming to see me more frequently at the offset so I can get them into maintenance. And I politely say to every single person I say I see is you seem really nice, but I don't want to see you that often, so like, let's, let's figure out what works for you, and let me give you some home care advice. Let me give you some strategies that have worked for me and other people. I actually really feel it's important for us to help people to help themselves, so that they feel confident enough to manage something that's on a, you know, not, maybe not a huge thing, but they can help manage a symptom or two, and if they really need to come in to see us after six or eight weeks, and they'll come in, that's kind of what I really push for my clients, is that I don't want them to have to come in to see me, because I don't feel like I'm doing my job then, or I need to refer you to somebody else, like, whether it's Chiro or physio or athletic therapy or, who knows what else is out acupuncture. I think that's the thing is, like, I want to help people find what that unique prescription of their own health and wellness is, is there for them? Didn't say that, right? But I want them to find their own prescription for their health and wellness, and that can include a different, like, a lot of different modalities. Yeah,

absolutely I agree with you. I love you. Know that you're, like, polite about, like, Yes, I seem really nice, but I don't, I don't want to see you for forever and ever, and certainly some. And I think that helps our profession as well. I think that you're, you know, trying to get them to to take care of themselves, and so that they, you know that they they have tools outside of massage therapy. They they know they can go see other professionals. They can have a team around them. I think that that's really important, that they don't become dependent, and because that's just part of their their cycle of pain as well, that they're not also willing to to take responsibility for their own actions outside of the treatment room. They spend a month doing whatever it was that got them into that position. They come back and see us, and then we're back

to the start. Definitely. That's a that's a big part of it, where.

And on on that topic as well. You're a trauma informed massage therapist, and I'm very curious about this. Can you describe what that means? So

trauma informed, I think, from the perspective of massage, is really around being really more aware that somebody might have a emotional response to something that's going on in their body, physically, and I didn't really think of what we do as being something that we needed to worry about this until I I guess for me, I recognize my own personal issues that are around mental health, and how that kind of was, I guess, resonating in my body, you know, I've, I've seen people struggle through their mental health around, you know, leaving the pandemic, and still to this day, I think it started to make me more aware of what might be going on, and people started to reveal things to me in conversation, in session, more than ever, and I started to see like, I want to make sure that I can handle this appropriately. You know, I work in an office with mental health providers, and I'm the RMT that works. I'm the only RMT in the office, and they have really, actually been so helpful in how I approach person, seeing that there's something, there could be something underlying to their physical condition. And so I started looking at, you know, ways that I could be more, I guess, just more educated on what people might be experiencing. You know, especially around mental health, mental health is huge. It's, there's a lot of, there's a lot of reasons why people can struggle. It's not just around somebody having a specific mental health diagnosis. I think we can just, we can just go through periods where we're having depression. So I really wanted to focus on being appropriate and supporting without being harmful in the way I spoke and the way I treated so asking people, are there any parts of your body that you aren't comfortable having treated maybe they don't have a reason that they just don't like it, but maybe they do have a reason and they don't feel comfortable, right? Like telling people you can undress to the state that's whatever is good for you. I can work with I can work with anything. I can work through a sheet. I don't need to see your body at all. So I took the SOAR Association here in Winnipeg, The Massage Therapy Association of Manitoba, offered a course with, maybe you know, her name is Pamela Fitch, and she did trauma informed massage therapy, and it was really incredible. And I think everybody should take some form of trauma, informed education, whether or not you're going to be supporting somebody like or not. I think having that, being able to identify things like, what's a yellow zone or a red zone? She actually had us, like, use a diagram of a body, and if somebody was coming in, we could actually have them fill out this with a red, yellow and green, and say, Where's Okay, where's not okay, and where's just a caution. And I think it it really helped me just to keep that in mind when I'm working with people, is it they have probably a lot going on that we don't know about, and so their actions and their words can sometimes reflect that they have something more significant going on and just try to be supportive without being judgmental. Ultimately, that's really kind of where it came from. Personally, I struggle myself so with anxiety and depression and I feel like talking about it has made it more I guess it's just it's made it easier for me to kind of live in my own space. So I guess most of it's come from my own personal need to try and help heal myself or balance myself and

how, like, how do you feel you're you're managing. Or how, how do you manage as someone you know, who is going through their own mental you know, mental health concerns, and, like you said, it can go in phases. It can be a struggle that's that not necessarily labeled as as mental health, but under the umbrella, you know, if you're struggling, and then now you're in a healthcare position of helping people, how are you what are some ways that you are managing your own mental health, you

know? And you're, what you said is so true, is like we go, we go through stages, and you. For the most part, you know, I've, I've developed a lot of skills and lot of coping strategies and things that help me to feel better. I know when I need to be alone. I know I need when I need time off. I know not to give too much. Sometimes I just take a mental health day. I think it's important sometimes I just don't overwork myself. I think putting my I guess, being able to say no and create boundaries has been really helpful. You know, we want to, we want to be there for people. We want to give back, but you can't give if you don't have anything to give from. You know, something I remember from when I was in school was one of our instructors. He was actually the director of the college. He said there's three questions you need to ask, are you okay? Are they okay? And am I being effective? And if any point in time they're not okay or you're not okay, you're not being effective, because you can't be if you're not okay. And I just always think that. So I'm like, How do I make sure that I'm okay, so that I can make sure that they're okay, so that we can be effective together? So for me, I'm like, I take time off, I go out in nature. I spend time with friends. You know? I paint. I'm I have always been an artistic personality. I i watercolor. It's quite fun. It's actually something I've branched into is actually helping people learn watercolors. I think it's seen as I think people just need an outlet, and for me, it's my outlet, and I love teaching people. So I think for me, doing workshops has been really great to encourage people to see the fun of what of painting or an artistic pursuit where we don't have to be perfect, we just have to have fun and enjoy it. So those are kind of some of the skills that I have. Music, being around animals. I mean, love dogs, so who doesn't like who doesn't like a little fur friend? So those are kind of ways I manage it, but there are times where it's a lot harder than others, especially when you're going through something significant in your life. So it's day by day. Usually no

thank you for sharing that I feel like most therapists feel that they're more effective when they are, when they when they've recovered, or they have these coping strategies, whether it be for an athlete like a massage therapist who is a former athlete who's recovered from specific injuries, they're more equipped to help their clients in those same situations. I feel that, and then I feel the same thing. If somebody is dealing with mental health concerns, then they are more equipped to help their clients in these situations as well. So you you know you're you're definitely in your, in your wheelhouse, and providing wonderful benefit to clients, whether they know it. Maybe they don't even know that they need that support when they come in. And it's interesting when you said that, you know they didn't really teach us trauma. Trauma Informed massage in school. They didn't even prepare us for it. My experience 18 years ago was that all they said was, there's a chance your client will cry on the table, but

that's then, that's it okay.

What am I supposed to do with that? You know? And, and it has happened, and if you don't have the training, then depending on the individual, what they're going through in their own life, and their own abilities to cope and and their own strategies and their own well being, like they might not handle that appropriately, yeah. And now the course with Pam Fitch sounds incredible. I know in your bio you also said that you you've taken the Mental Health First Aid is that separate because that I'm curious about that course myself, yeah.

So that course is actually a separate course, and it's through, I want to say I can't remember if it's Canadian, like, if it's like, I can't remember who actually organizes the course. I just know it was one of my former instructors that was the instructor for it, and it was, it was Also really good, and I think people should, should I?

Yeah,

I will be like, I'll be honest that, like, I didn't realize how beneficial our profession was to the mental health and well being of individuals. I know, like, we relieve stress and help the body relax, which you know, then you know, can, can be a contribute, contributor to, you know, more mental health and well being. But I did not realize how needed we were until we could not provide our our services to the general public for it wasn't that long, but even a month, if somebody was used to getting a massage on a regular basis or having that outlet, as you said, that healthcare practitioner, that they can just talk to for an hour in confidence while they're getting their you know they're getting their treatments. I didn't realize how important we were until they didn't have us, and then when we could reopen, you know, with our restrictions, but still, like, people came back, like, right away they were, like, whatever I need to do, like, I'm coming back, and I need this treatment. And it it all came out that how much gets bottled up and even that short amount of time and how beneficial we were. So, yeah, I appreciate you. You know, sharing that and that the importance of the course as well to recognize, because it's still ongoing, and it was obvious before, but just didn't. It's really kind of been more clear after the pandemic, of course, are you sure it's not? Oh, I'm just here to use my benefits. It's like, well, I need a little bit more to put on your chart. So give me, give me a little bit more than than that, please.

Yeah, all right.

So transitioning into the massage industry in general, you're in Winnipeg, so Manitoba, different province than Ontario, where I'm practicing, but I think we're all moving towards the same goal. You're a big Why do you feel that the inclusion of massage therapy should be part of the bigger scope of the healthcare care care industry, I know that this is really important to you, and why should we be advocating for that?

I hope that as our industry progresses, that we get to be in those spaces. Do we need to be a degree program? Yeah, probably. I personally would love to see this be a degree program. I would love to see us have a the ability to say I have a degree. I have a legitimate, I'm a legit health care provider with an actual degree. Like, it's a big it's a big thing for me. Now, if I could have the opportunity, I would absolutely have gone and got a degree. I would have got my kin degree, and along with my massage therapy, I think it would have opened a lot of doors for us if we could cultivate that relationship in a university setting. Maybe that would be the way that we get in to those spaces more, I'm not sure, yeah,

I mean, I can't speak to it like but at the at the same time, I know that our Association, the registered massage therapists of Ontario Association, our Tao, I know that they have a pilot project right now with a healthcare facility in to. Toronto, and it's really just, like I said, a pilot project where they've integrated massage therapy alongside, you know, the medical professionals, so that they're looking into this prevention and taking that strain off of the medical system, and they're tracking, you know, how how it operates, and what the results are. So I think it's going well so far with the latest update. So we're really curious to to see, and then hopefully, you know, if it goes well, then it can, it can be introduced into the other provinces as well. Because I definitely, I feel like, you know, it is important as well to be, to be recognized among the medical professionals and and I know, like some massage therapists, I mean, looking back myself, I did an English degree, I got a BA but I didn't I knew I wanted to be a massage therapist, but because I just wanted to do University just to get the degree, because I wanted The experience, I didn't feel like I felt too young to go into massage therapy. I just wanted to go to school. I went to Queen's University just, just to, you know, say that I went got the BA so that it was easy to get the degree, because I, you know, I didn't need it for anything. But looking back, I do wish, I mean, my electives were like anatomy, but I do wish that I had focused more on something in the healthcare realm that might have served me moving forward in massage therapy. Yeah, it's interesting to to know whether, yeah, whether that will be our in or not, or whether it makes any difference to our profession long term, if it does become a degreed program. I am also speaking in a future episode with somebody who likes from who is trained in the UK, which apparently they call it a degree. So I'm curious to see what that training is like, because, at least on from my personal experience talking to, you know, residents in the UK who get massage, it still sounds like it's from an esthetician. So I'm not really sure what, what, where that degree comes in, so I'm curious to speak to them. So I love that you're, you know, sharing that, and an advocate for that. Moving on. Then what into some of the if I said, you know, I said estheticians and you're doing facial massage. I personally love that this, this branch, um, why won't you, you know, if you're going to go to a spa and get a facial, including intraoral massage, and, you know, facial massage, and pay X amount for it, but not have it covered by insurance. Why can't we sort of step into that realm and and now offer those services, and you're getting, well, you're getting the knowledge of a medical trained professional, but then you're also, you're getting it can be covered on your insurance at the same time. What are your What are your thoughts on?

Like, I'm gonna be honest, in the world, you do love mine. She's fantastic. I drive 30 minutes across the city to see her, because she's great, and I'm gonna continue to do that. There are definitely a lot of concerns around some of these new facial sculpting massage techniques that these certain people are taking training in and offering, and they are legitimately treating the face in a way that I feel is so inappropriate. One they're talking about treating TMJ, well, first and foremost, it's TMJ, D, it's not TMJ, because we have two and you don't know how to treat a condition that you don't have the background training in, sorry. So stop telling people you're treating that you're not. You are helping relieve symptoms. Yes, fine, I'll give you that, but you're not actually treating a condition. And I think I don't have any. I actually don't even have an issue with people doing what they do, other than I don't think anybody who's not a licensed practitioner of any kind should be sticking your fingers in anybody's mouth. Why do we need to stick this is my favorite one. I've seen this and multiple people, multiple estheticians, who promote this massage, and they're talking about how the only way to be effective is to treat the muscles from both sides. And I think you're totally discrediting what massage therapy all is. Trust me, I don't have to stick my hand in any part of your body to be more effective. So it just it doesn't. It doesn't. It drives it drives me crazy, actually, but I. I want to be so respectful of the people that I know that are in the esthetics field. I think that they're great and they do wonderful things. I just feel like there's a boundary that some professionals, some of these people, are crossing, and I don't think it should be allowed. So should you go to see an RMT? Can do that? Yes, because guess what? We have training and background and you know the assessment, we're actually being safe when we're treating so can we stop them from doing it? No, I'm probably not. But if I can offer an alternative where I can treat your face and help to treat maybe tension that you're feeling that relates to other parts of your body, and also makes your skin look better, and also helps to, you know, reduce the appearance of and remove lymphatic like, there's many positive things that come from it that I don't have to say. And guess what? It's still massage therapy by an RMT, so it's covered under insurance. So I really would like to expand my offering and say, like, guess what? You can you can have this done. I can do this. It's still therapy. It's still a form of therapy. It's just not with an emphasis on this, like it's just not an emphasis on the beauty aspect. So I hope that answers the question, because I sometimes get myself in trouble when I talk about these things, because I think people think, well, who are you to have a right to say, Who and like, what should be offered? Because people, the spa industry has been offering these things for a very long time. And I think, yeah, you're right. But should they just because they've done it and it's been that way for this long? Doesn't mean they should. So I guess I'm kind of a I'm a little bit protective of our industry and what we can offer, and I think that there just has to be a line of what they can safely offer and what they shouldn't offer. That's it. It's all I'm getting at. So hopefully I can take take a little bit of that more in the future, so that I can offer those services, and people hopefully will feel more secure knowing that I have the background to do it. Yeah, for sure.

Now, did you basically just, you know, based on the training that you have, the knowledge that you have? Did you just basically put together like and you're treating each individual. I think with the spa, they have a formula. It's every you know, every face gets treated the same. So are you? You're obviously putting your your therapist hat on and treating each individual the needs that they have. But do you? Did you also, did you do a course that then you, you know, implemented, or did, just based on our knowledge as massage therapist?

Yes, I mean, pretty much, because, really, there's, there's while there are courses that have now been developed that are around facial massage, and I can't speak to, you know, qualifications of those courses or anything like that, because I I just don't know, um. I've taken things that over my career, that I've adjusted or adapted into the practice, and I think that, like I have a lot of education, I've taken a lot of different techniques. I constantly try to learn new things. I you know, I review, I find smaller courses I've taken facial cupping, which I took with cupping Canada. It's a great course. I think anybody who was interested in cupping should take cupping with cupping Canada, they offer a advanced facial cupping, like program. And, you know, I think that that really kind of started making me go, let's do this more. Let's, let's, let's do this more. There's a reason. It affects the like, it works on the neuro like, the, my gosh, I can't even say the word today, but like, more around the neuromuscular functioning, and there's more of that approach that I really liked. So I just kind of have taken the skills of our toolbox from when we're in school and adjusted them to the courses that I have taken additionally. So I mean, there's a lot of there's a lot of things out there, and I think they're constantly being evolved. But I feel like, yeah, I just kind of pieced it together on my own. And so I that's kind of how I got to where I am. I and I, gosh, now I'm rambling so but yeah, that's kind of how I got to where I am. I

think that that that makes complete sense and and I've looked at courses before, and then I've gone but, but I actually know I actually know this. I have you ever considered teaching?

I've trained many people in different aspects of my careers. I. I, you know, I was a mentor for some students that were in school. I led our study groups. I I teach my clients all the time. I actually love education. I think it, I think it's probably ingrained in me. My grandmother was a teacher, um, my oldest sister is a professor in Toronto. My dad taught electrical for Red River as a satellite program. My other sister is an early childhood educator. She's been working with kids with special needs her entire life. She is now progressing into becoming a, I guess, a form of child counselor. She's taking her psychology stuff. So I think it's in my I think it's in my blood. So, yeah, I'd love to teach. I don't know what I teach. I don't know how I would how I would go through that, but I think it's the next stage of my career is, whereas I don't want to misogyny as much, but I want to help, maybe progress the industry a little bit more. Yeah, I want to help. Got any ideas, how do I get to the teaching?

Do I have any suggestions about how I think that you'd be an excellent I think all of the qualifications are already there. And, yeah, with your your knowledge and your experience and and, as I said, sometimes we just need permission to use the skills that we already have. I don't know why we we all. We keep looking for courses that sort of, you know that we're to bring to the next to the next thing to our clinic, but I think that you're a really great example of of using the tools that we have in this in this way, so that I think you're you, I think you could have, you have the makings already of a of putting together something wonderful there for for a course that would be, would be well received, absolutely plus with them, them, the, you know, the mental health aspect of it as well. I think that that's just a really key component, that face, the neck can be very sensitive, and bringing that awareness to the training is really important, which I'm, you know, again, I can't speak to the trainings that other people have, but, you know, who knows if it's if it's being glossed over? So based on what we've talked about so far, I think we've covered a lot, but I feel like you're also just getting warmed up. Is there anything else that you'd you'd like to to share before we we end the session officially today, our conversation,

oh my gosh, I probably have lots of things I could talk about, things that I've seen in the industry, things that I would love to change, advice that I'd love to give newer therapists, therapists that have been working as long as I have, or even longer. I think that we all need to be accountable for how we want the profession to be perceived and also how we want it to to to be reflect, like to reflect in the community, how we how we speak, how we educate, how we treat our patients, how, from the time that we talk to them, the assessment, all of those things, those are all things that we have a control over, you know, and also how we're employed. I think that is a big thing that people don't understand. You know, we're all self employed. We're all self employed. It doesn't matter if you work at a clinic and you are an employee, you're still self employed. And I would love to see that change so that we would have some stability and some security in the in the in the industry.

I think it would give us some I think it just be better for us all around

I guess I just want people to know that they don't have to be a therapist for everybody, that you can be in a set niche market, if that's what you want to call it, that You can turn away clients. You don't have to feel like you have to take everybody and work all hours of the day. You can set an hour like and enforce your policies. Please put policies in place and enforce them. If more people had policies in place and enforce them, less people would take advantage of them. And I, unfortunately, have had multiple clients that didn't like the fact that I had a no show or a late fee or a cancelation fee, and they stopped coming to see me because they didn't like they had to pay $35 I am a business. I cannot have you not come to your appointment because. Loss of X or Y reason and expect me to suffer a loss for an appointment. I can't fail. I do take that a little personally. I know I shouldn't, but it's it's kind of as hard when I bent over backwards for people. I do make an effort to make sure I have time. So just like I said, I could, I have lots of things I could talk but I really want people just to have confidence and think about how the industry could progress and how they can stand up for themselves and have boundaries, and we could all just live a happier

life as RMTS in the field, told you I'm a little bit of a Rambler. Didn't make this too difficult for you to edit all

of this. Oh, the rambling will be included. It's all good. So yeah, I really appreciate your time. I think, I think that everything is so relevant. I think there's an opportunity potentially for a part two, for sure, if they definitely want a more, more to share when I'm definitely open to that. But I really appreciate your time, Alyssa and and I hope you have a great rest of your day. Sounds great. You.