Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an Impact Uprising.
So welcome to the good community, we're nonprofit professionals, philanthropists, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
So let's get started. Becky, what's happening today?
Our friend's in the house, yeah, it's been a long time coming. The community needs to meet Dave.
I know. And I feel like there was a before Dave and after Dave moment in our life, and it happened this year. He's somebody that we followed his work for a while. But we get to spend time together in Phoenix at the Responsive Nonprofit Summit. You know, those people that you just like, oh my gosh, like there's such a kinship here. There's such a mutual trust, mutual what we want to see and build in the world. And that is Mr. Dave Raley, and he's been doing this work. He's an innovator. He's like an incredible steward who shows up at the first summit meeting with a card personalized to each member on our team
and chocolate,
just how this podcast has been a blessing in his life. That's the kind of guy that we're talking to today. But let me tell you about the amazing human that he is. Dave has worked for more than 100 organizations over the past two decades, including businesses, nonprofits, churches, this is one thing I love about him, he doesn't see the walls, he sees that we're all pulling this together, there's things we can learn from every kind of corner of the world as we're pulling for good. He has extensive experience in a number of areas, including marketing, fundraising, product development, user experience, and I could go on, he is the founder of this beautiful Consulting Group, though, called Imago. And in that work, you probably see him he's like, literally keynoting a conference last week over in DC. He's a writer, he's helping nonprofits. He is this really great coach that comes alongside and today he's going to do a little bit of coaching with us through the Working Genius framework. And so I'm really excited about that. But if you don't get enough of Dave today, guess what, he has got this incredible, brilliant podcast where they're really trying to break down the walls, in the social good space and in the business space, called purpose and profit. He hosts it along this brilliant marketer, Carly Berna, who we love, also, hey, and this show really is about this intersection of nonprofit causes and for profit brands. So Dave is just this oracle of wisdom. He provides innovation reports is called The Wave report every Friday, where he is just saying, This is what I'm seeing in the world. So he's a guy that you want to follow, and you just want to have your friend and in this life, they really get into this house. We're a little excited that you're here today.
Whoa. What do you do with that? This is, yeah, I'm blushing. This is incredible. No, I love you guys. And it's so interesting, because we started the Purpose and Profit Podcast a couple of years ago, right around when you started. We Are For Good. And you're about 460 episodes ahead of us.
I blame Jon for that.
Sorry not sorry.
Totally.
No, I'm just so glad like our worlds collided because today we're, you are the guy that we want to talk to you about innovation that talks about it in a relatable way. But before we dive into all the things that we're going to collectively geek out about, we want everybody to know the Dave that we know take us back and tell us a little bit about your story growing up and what poured pulled you into this work.
Oh, man. Yeah, good question. I have always been fascinated by the connection between worlds like, what you know, and I grew up I grew up in, in California went to school for business and what we call them web and information technology.
Oh my gosh, I remember this.
The olden days. The olden days, when there was like, What is this internet thing?
I went to an internet class actually, like? How do you use the internet?
Oh my, was what it was called?
Yeah.
The first departments that I was in charge of that was we would now call digital was called New Media. Do you guys remember those days?
I remember that.
I'll stop doing the dating myself thing, but, but I've just always been fascinated by the connection between people, between sectors between industries. And, you know, I when when my wife and I decided to relocate to the Pacific Northwest, it was kind of one of those moments where you're just looking for a job. And I found out that there was like an advertising agency that worked for nonprofits, and it was like, wait a second you I mean, I can, I can actually do that as a paying profession. Like I thought you just like, you know,
Took my vow of poverty and that's it?
Oh yeah, you just get a job. You know, I thought you'd just get a job at Microsoft or whatever, and then go, you know, help out a church or go, you know, do whatever in terms of cause base and it was that moment that I realized I could actually potentially I could, like, have a career in helping causes like how incredible because
You're doing it.
Fast forward 20 years and and just had the blessing an opportunity to build and start a lot of things at that agency. It's called Masterworks and, you know, built the digital team there helped to build the strategy team, analytics media, an area we called strategic innovation. And it was just a wonderful training ground for what it looks like to to help organizations to innovate. But really, for me, it was about crossing over into what does it look like to help organizations not just with their marketing or their campaigns, which are so important, but what can I do to help people to think differently to connect those dots to kind of invite them into the craziness that is the way my brain works, which we'll talk about in a little bit?
Well, I was gonna like turn that on its head and say, one of the things I value the most about you is, how naturally curious who you are and how somehow your curiosity is connected to systems. In some way, I feel like you have an organized brain, whereas mine is very chaotic in it's creativity and innovation. And I know we're gonna dive into Working Genius which I'm going to confess here I had not heard of until you introduced it to me. But before we get into that, I mean, we have an innovation expert on the podcast, and I want to do a little tone setting with you. Because it just feels like Dave, you're this leading voice that we look to when we're exploring digital innovation. And we're looking at transformational trends in fundraising in the sector. set the tone for us a little bit, what are you paying attention to right now? And what opportunity do you think is that really low hanging fruit that listeners could really grab on to right now is we're about to ramp up into the give, you know, the busiest giving season of the year?
A couple of things come to mind. Well, first of all, and we'll talk about this in a little bit. But you know, innovation, I think it's a bit of a it's kind of a four letter word for some people, because it's kind of like you roll your eyes like, oh, my gosh, this guy's on to talk about innovation, it's going to be pie in the sky, it's going to be you know, all this kind of stuff. And so for me, innovation isn't innovation unless it actually makes a change in the world, I just watched a movie that because of you guys a couple of weeks ago, called Uncharitable.
Oh I saw this post.
Did you like it?
Thanks for tagging us.
I will not say how many times I cried during that movie, but powerful, powerful film. And the reason I bring it up is because I think sometimes we just can be intellectual and think, oh, innovation, let's change the sector, etc, etc. But the reality is, it's not innovation unless it actually actually makes a difference and actually sticks. And so I'm excited about as an aside what that film will do and what charities and the social sector will do in the coming years because of that film, not just because of the clever ideas in that film, you know what I mean? So, with that, I would say there's a couple things that I'm watching, and especially writing a lot about in in my column that we talked about the Wave Report, artificial intelligence, just had a two day Summit, put on by a team, you know, the fundraising.ai summit was really great. That's definitely an innovation that is, is impacting us day in and day out. And then the other thing that I'm really watching is what's been happening with the subscription economy. And I think we'll come back to that, but it's really we're in a different world than we were, you know, for those of us that are doing fundraising for a while, recurring giving is not new, recurring giving has been around for hundreds 1000s, arguably, of years. But there's just something different about the last decade. And, and we'll dive into that.
I love it.
So that those are the two, those are the two things that I'm really paying attention to now.
Totally love that teaser, like that's coming. Well, we wanted to be like intentional, too, because whenever you're talking about these innovative ideas, or kind of new ideas that you're bringing to an organization, like we hear it in our community all the time, that the change agent, you know, the you listening, want to like, take this and implement it. But you end up feeling like you get blocked or you get stuck working with others getting that adoption at your own organization. So when we were talking to Dave and learning about this Working Genius is really this new way to look at how we work and how we work together. We're like, oh, my gosh, you got to like bring this to the podcast and like talk about it, because there's a lot of different ways to think about this. But I think you're so brilliant at walking teams through this. So we wanted to give you space to talk a little bit about about it today. So maybe for some background, and then lead us into it.
Love it, love it. Let's do it. And by the way, Becky, I am so grateful to be a part of introducing even you and your team to this, you know that's I get so much joy out of helping people to see these kinds of these kinds of things. The Working Genius is a model that was built by a team led by a guy by the name of Patrick Lencioni. Some of our listeners will have heard of him he's written a bunch of books The Ideal Team Player, The Advantage, Five Dysfunctions of a Team. He's kind of an organizational development consultant. And he's worked with big corporations like Southwest Airlines. But He's also worked with many people in the social sector in the faith sector. And this model was really an innovation. By the way out of the pandemic, this was this was a model that they invented in 2020. They were all at home.
Now I don't feel so like, why didn't I know about this? No one's ever feel like you've been around forever. Everybody knows about.
Yes, totally get it.
I feel better.
By the way, it will be fascinating to look back in the next five and 10 years at how many innovations came to right around 2020. Like, I don't know, We Are For Good. The podcast. But in the reason when I saw this in 2020, that I immediately jumped onto it was because it was very similar to another model that nobody's heard of, that I had used for a decade prior to that. But here's the deal. And the reason I got so excited about it in 2020, is because Patrick Lencioni has a gift with language and clarity. And so I knew that if he that, that it would make this model far more adaptable. And adoptable really is the term because it's just so clear. So we'll we'll jump into it. But the reason I bring it up is because you know, and this is a little side lesson with innovation is so often we think about innovation as something that happens when times are good. And it's like ooh, yeah, when I get everything dialed in, or I put all those fires out, or I can get my team aligned just right, then, then guys, we will take the time to innovate, you know, we'll be able to do that. The reality is that the way I say it is that if necessity is the mother of invention, then crisis is the mother of innovation.
Oh, I like that.
So you think about 2020. This is a full fledged crisis for many people for many reasons. And so it'll be interesting to see in the coming years, what other innovations we discover. And we find out about from that. So Working Genius is a profile, essentially, the way I like to talk about it is it's not a personality test, not a personality test. It's not a strengths and weaknesses thing. It's a productivity tool. And the reason I use it in the work that I do is I help nonprofits and businesses with their innovation and their revenue development is because so often innovation can get stuck at different places along a spectrum. And so just to give you the the kind of the overview, so Working Genius, basically the idea is that there are six different types of what are called working geniuses. For every one of us. Two of the six are what would be called our geniuses, these are the things that were gifted, not only gifted with, but that bring us joy, they're like where we naturally go to they give us energy, they bring us joy, okay. Two of the six then are what are called working competencies. Like, yeah, you can be pretty good at them, you probably, you might even be really good at them, but they just don't necessarily light your fire, right. And then two of the six tend to be what are called your working frustrations. These are areas and by the way, this is not your good at, or you're bad at kind of a thing. People take this test, and then they start to use language like, Yeah, I'm so terrible at blankety blank, right. And I've been guilty of that, too. But the reality is, many leaders are very good at all of the things because they've learned to compensate, you know, they've, they've learned to lean into those things. But the reason they're frustrations is because you don't have a lot of energy for them, like they are not your natural inclination. They're not where you naturally go. Okay, so six types of genius. I'm gonna walk through them. And then there's, you know, two of them are geniuses, two of them are frustrations, and two of them are competencies for for any individual.
So, Dave, as you walk through these, is this something that you can Is it a good process to try to self identify? Or is it better just like take the quiz to figure this out? I mean, is it?
So I listen to Yeah, that's a great question, Jon. I listened to the Working Genius. They have a podcast, you know, I listened to a few episodes, and I was kind of doing the old like, oh, maybe I'm okay. Yeah, then I took the test. I don't think there's a wrong way to do it. The they do have an assessment online. It's like 25 bucks, takes 10 minutes. And it's super helpful. But there's not really I mean, as long as you're honest with yourself, which is the key thing, then yeah, you know, if you know what the geniuses are, you know, you might say, Oh, this questions must be around that one. Well, this is not meant to be this statistically valid is going to tell you who you are, right? It's meant to be a self discovery tool.
Okay, we're like I'm so geeked out about this and I want to like kind of spill the beans before you dive into this. The We Are For Good team took this analysis and this assessment and we're not going to dive into the results. You because we want to understand what each of the six types are. So I'm going to tee that up. But I'm trying to tell you all stay tuned, because you're about to figure out, what is our frustrations? What are our competencies? And what are our geniuses. So start at the top Dave.
I love it, and I'm gonna out myself too. So we'll we'll this will be a shared vulnerable mindset. That's six different types of Working Genius. By the way, they helpfully spell an acronym. The acronym is widget. So Okay, which one was he talking about? So it spells the word widget. So the first genius is the genius of wonder. People with the genius of wonder, have a gift. And it is a gift to ask questions, to question the status quo to wonder about things. I mean, the number and by the way, spoiler alert, I have one of my geniuses.
I said you were curious. Yeah. It shows up.
So how many sentences do I say that starts with? You know, I wonder? I was thinking about,
That's a good question also.
Right? That kind of stuff. So people with a genius of wonder, they ask the question, they may or may not actually be the one to come up with a solution or to have the idea to do something about it. But all innovation starts with asking the question, like, could there be a better way? Is there something different, right? That's why I think a documentary like Uncharitable is such a great gift because it does ask some really big questions. It doesn't necessarily jump into solutions, right? So genius of wonder. The second genius is the genius of invention. If the genius of wonder asks the question, like I wonder if there could be a different way to do things, or I wonder if there's an opportunity in the market here or in the sector, the genius of invention says, I've got an idea, right. And often people with the genius of invention might have 20 ideas, because people with the genius of invention are great at coming up with coming up with ideas with solutions. They love a blank whiteboard, that's not intimidating to them at all. They're like, Bring it on, right? So that's the genius of invention. The third genius is D right is the genius of discernment. And what discernment is all about is good judgment is often gut feel it's a good read. So if the genius to follower, our little acronym here, the genius of Wonder asked the question, the genius of invention says I've got an idea, then the genius of discernment says, okay, that might be a little too early for that idea, or Ooh, of the 20 ideas we just came up with, I think this is the one, right? These are people that have really good judgment. By the way, if discernment is a competency or frustration, that doesn't mean you have bad judgment, because again, this is not about
Thank you I fall on this list.
This is not about this is not about good and bad strengths and weaknesses. This is about where you go naturally. So for example, with a genius of discernment, that's my other, my my two primary geniuses are wonder and discernment. So the way I show up best in the world, and when I'm leaning fully into my genius is I ask questions. I'm okay. I do good at invention I could do that. But then I'm really I have a good sense of judgment, or at least people tell me I do, right. And so when I show up, for example, as a consultant, that's essentially what I'm doing with clients is wondering, here's the 600 things we might do, or you know what's going on in your context. But then the genius of discernment kicks in and it's like, yeah, but here's what's important. And here's what we need to do. So let's talk about you, you you for a moment, Jon of these first three. One of them is is one of your geniuses you want to share with with the group.
I feel it. Was an invention. I was like, I can't remember the exact word. How do you feel? What's so funny, Dave? I'm sitting on a couch. I feel very zen.
Chaise lounge Yes, kick your feet up.
I have always said like, I love a blank sheet of paper. Like that is like my line, like give me a blank sheet of paper. Like the opportunities are endless. I love creating. I love coming with 20 ideas. So when you were describing that I felt very seen. And I'm like, that's where I do feel happiest. And the fact you're using the word Joy, I do get a lot of joy from that. So I think this process is kind of cool. Because even though I see myself and other ones, when my day has more time that I get to do those tasks. I'm like, so happy about it, you know, and I feel more in the zone.
Absolutely. And Jon the way you said that, I think is important because one of the things that we talk about what Working Geniusis every job is a six letter job, meaning you can't not do one of these things like every every role that you have, by the way home. That's a job have to right? So we all have to do all of these things. It's just if we could buy us our day, if we could architect our day around our geniuses, then we would be so much more. Not only fulfilled, but energized, you know? And and built up, right? Yeah. Okay, so we've had the first three, we've got wonder, invention and discernment. The next one is absolutely critical. And spoiler alert is a total frustration for me and genius, for others on this call. So Becky, this is is your turn.
I love this one.
So galvanizing is the is the next one. And that is all about rallying the troops getting people motivated. We're all going to head over there everybody. And it is an absolute genius because if it just keep following our thread, if if wonder, ask the question, invention has an idea discernment says, that's the right idea, or this is the right time. Nothing happens if no one is galvanizing.
This is why Becky is the ying to my yang. Yes, this so good.
Which is hilarious, because you're talking about a blank sheet of paper, and I'm like, Ah, I hate a blank sheet of paper. I need something to get me going. And I can't just start at zero. So I love that we're all in our zones.
Well, and just to accent because both of you have now just said, like I don't even understand because a lot of times people have unnecessary guilt or judgment, right? Like, I hate a blank white piece of paper. And that's either a guilt statement or a judgement statement, oftentimes.
Probably both, so sorry, Jon, if it was judgment.
No, that's great.
But here's and here's the gift with Working Genius. As you you not only can understand your own strengths and your own geniuses, but you actually recognize the need for other people's geniuses. And instead of feeling guilty, that you might not have one or judging somebody that they don't have one, you can begin to rely on them and lean on them and say, Jon, we're stuck here. We need 20 ideas. And Jon's gonna be like, Bring it on. Let's do it.
Okay, I'm having a moment because this I'm very visual processor. And when we took the quiz, it's not lost on me that it's like on these little gears. The widget acronym is on these gears. Yeah, we do all need each other for it to click together. I love that. Just now discovering this live on the podcast. This makes sense. Dave, what you're saying?
I love it. I love it. Yeah, widget sounds really cold, by the way. Like, what, uh, the worst accroynm ever.
Making widgets in the pandemic.
It's a great metaphor for what people say about the sector.
But, the good news is when you see to your point, Jon, that graphic of the gears, it's like, oh, no, actually, it's, it's it's these interlocking mechanisms that are each other, each other to power each other forward. So it's a gift. Okay, homestretch here. The next genius after galvanizing is the genius of enablement. Now, I want to camp on this one for a minute, partly because Becky and Jon have the genius of enablement. But also because this is one of the most misunderstood geniuses. The genius of enablement is all about. If the genius of galvanizing is about rallying the troops and getting getting everybody going in the right direction, and and doing that the genius of enablement are the first people that raise their hand and say, I'm in like, they're the How can I help the let's get this thing done. And I don't know if you guys know, but the world doesn't work without people that are willing to raise their hand and step in and step up. Also vulnerable moment. The genius of enablement is a frustration for me. Okay. So it's, it's on the frustration end of the spectrum. And the way that plays out for me, is the words. How can I help you with that? Or how can I help you are just really actually kind of hard for me to say.
Yeah.
And the reason I say that in a vulnerable moment is I've always felt bad for that. I love helping people. Like if you know me, you know, I love helping people. But the way it plays out for me is I want to help people using wonder or discernment or invention, right? But enablement, and this is why it's such a genius is no, no, no, like, I want to help you on your terms. Like how can I help you is a statement that somebody with a genius of enablement is gifted at, right? And so enablement sometimes has a bad connotation, like, Oh, are you enabling drug addiction? Are you enabling, you know, bad behavior, right? This is not that this is absolutely coming alongside and getting stuff done without enablement. teams don't get stuff done. And again, every job is a six letter job. So I've had to do plenty of enablement in my life. It's just not a natural place that I go to.
Well, I'm definitely feeling better about that one. Okay, last one.
Last one is tenacity. Oh, man, the people with tenacity are just like pumping their fists in the air right now, tenacity is, is a form of helping but it's about just getting stuff done like high quality, you know, commitment to excellence pushing through the inevitable barriers that come with innovation. These people get stuff done. All right. So if you think about this spectrum from left to right widget, right, you have wonder ask the question. Invention says, I've got an idea. Discernment is the judgment. Is this the right time? Is this the right the right idea? Galvanizing rallies the troops to go and do something about that idea. enablement says, How can I help? Let's get it done. And then tenacity finishes the darn thing and gets it done. Right. And when you look at a team, like what we just done with with the We Are For Good team, you have representation, sometimes you have a lot of geniuses, right, represent it. So for you, for you, too. And for Julie, all of you have the genius of enablement. Which means, which is awesome, by the way, and I think helps explain some things around the Impact Uprising, but it also then is an area where you're just naturally gifted, right? Whereas, I think we saw was that the genius of wonder, you all have it as a competency, which means you're not gonna like not ask questions, it's just not your first place, right? To go. And so it's, it's just a very helpful tool when you realize that, that you need that entire spectrum, for whether it's innovation or just getting work done on a day to day basis, you need people that can represent each part of that spectrum.
This is so helpful, I am so happy we're talking about this. We've said it time and time again on this podcast, that understanding the soft skills in our work, are the things that bring us not only success, probably perhaps the greatest success, but also fulfillment. And I think we spend, you're right Dave, we spend so much time in this personality exam, you know, world with Strengths Finder, and Myers Briggs. And there's the color wheel. And we've done an entire series on Enneagram. But I think when you look at something like productivity, at least for me, this process gives me some exhale, because it's like, well, why wouldn't I just lean into the things that are just instinct for me, and I can let go of the things that are not innate to me, that doesn't mean I'm not pouring into them. It just means that I know what I'm good at. And I could probably run faster and get more good Juju for myself out of focusing on them. And so I want to ask you, as we're kind of, how can this be practical to the greater community? How would you say, you know, knowing that we all find joy in different ways that knowing that we all lean in in different ways? How does the Working Genius? How can we take something like that, and I really encourage everyone to check it out, you know, to think about how we channel it with intention and activate innovation, you know, knowing that we're all going to be in different buckets on this. We have different geniuses, frustrations and competencies.
Yeah, you know, I think I think it's one of the ways I would suggest to think about it. Yes, absolutely. Take the take the assessment workinggenius.com. By the way, I didn't mention this, but I do have a tool that people can download on my website. It's imago.consulting/workinggenius. So for our listeners, that's something that's just a you know, it's an easy reference guide to the Working Genius. But so not only just do it, but also map out your team. That's the biggest thing. And I had a moment a couple of weeks ago, I was with a client doing they're doing an off site, and they had 40 people in the room. And we had everybody had done their Working Genius. So I was like, holy cow, how am I gonna get through this with 40 people. And so we came up with some group exercises, one of the exercises was, okay, everybody's gonna stand up, and they're gonna go to a part of the room that represented their top genius, like where they get the most joy and the most fulfillment. This this team got up everybody, you know, went to the different corners of the room. And one person out of the 40 people ended up in the galvanizing corner.
Oh, I would have hung out with them.
And that one person was the senior leader on the team. And in that moment, it was like, Oh, this explains a lot like why that one senior leader felt like wholly responsible
Atlas
to push everybody forward and keep everybody moving and keep everybody rallied, which with that big of a that was just the marketing and development team, right? with that big of a team, they they can't rely on one person to be the genius of galvanizing. Right? And so that one insight then helped them to say like, Okay, well, there are other people, by the way with that as that as their second thing, their genius. There are also people on this team where it's a competency. They're also outsiders, they can draw on like, it just helped them to realize like, Oh, this is why we may lose momentum on projects, because we're missing. You know, the senior leader on the team feels like they've got to galvanize everything, right, and you can overuse your genius, just as much as you can under use your Genius.
Wow. I mean, what an example, I think I know this in the context of work, but I can't help but think a lot of our audiences nonprofit, this is I think, also the power of finding ways that people can pour into your mission, like you need all these types of people pouring into it. It's not just about the money that people bring, it's like, everyone has these things that bring them joy that actually could feed and fuel, the way that the volunteer capacity of your organization are different pieces of how your mission shows up. And so it just kind of opened in my mind, I love that you're pouring into this work. Thank you for that resource. Because I think as we get back to like innovation, and we think now through this lens of like, it needs all of us on the team, we all have a role to play in harnessing that innovation and finding ways to like mobilize around it. Like kind of, I guess, segue us Dave, of like, how do you take this and apply it if you're maybe in a team that's not ready for this tool? Like, what is the next step as we kind of go into talking about innovation?
Yeah, that's a good question, Jon. Thinking about that, I think that first it's, like I said, it's super easy to utilize to your point, some teams are really small. I remember the first time I did it as a team, just as an aside, we I think we have four people on the team, right? So like, by definition, if there are six working geniuses, right? Statistically, you're probably not going to have all of them, you know, represented right on your team. So it does cause you to think about who else in this organization? Who on my board? How do I basically tap into those things. And so I'm actually on a volunteer board myself, and a lot of times I'm bringing invention to something I can do. It's like, I'm, I'm the inventor on the board, you know, because it's like, let me help bring ideas. So I think it's a great tool. It's not the only tool, but it is, is you think about, you know, how do you accomplish things. But I guess to bridge on the innovation, innovation topic, I think one of the dimensions of of innovation that people get wrong is they think innovation is just about ideas. And what I care deeply about is that innovation creates sustainable growth. And so again, it's not about the ideas, it's about what change actually happens in the world. And then how can we one see that change, but then to actually take advantage of that and respond to whatever that trend is, or whatever's going on in the in the world today?
Okay, that is such a creative way to look at innovation. I mean, truly, is that not all what we're chasing is that sustainable growth. I mean, many of us are trying to get ourselves put out of business, because we're eradicating these issues. But I do think that innovation plays such a big role in that security in growth. And we cannot have this conversation and I love the Working Genius conversation. But you have such a personal genius into recurring revenue models. And I want to keep going with this sustainable growth piece because you are one of the experts in this and you even mentioned at the top of the conversation that recurring giving has been going on for you know, hundreds of years now, which I did not know that we're going to need to double click on what that is. But I want to talk about this topic of like recurring revenue models, because we'll have some listeners on here that this is going to be a new concept for you and I don't just mean like an annual donation but you know, monthly donors, I mean, when I was in New York City, with with Julie last time, there are memberships now to get your nails done monthly membership, everybody's getting a membership, your burrito club at Chipotle, like we have got to figure out a way to get in this game. So share a little bit about what you're seeing in this subscription economy and how have you seen nonprofits lean into it and find just really great success in it?
Yeah, yeah. And thank you this I mean, I'm passionate about a lot of things but you know, looking at the window of the really the last 10 years in some ways, but I would really say the last five years has opened my eyes to what what is possible with tapping into the subscription economy to generate subscription giving is the way I talk about it. So just a quick you know, we talked about you know, recurring giving is not new I remember that First literally the first program I worked on for our rescue mission homeless ministry shelter 20 years ago was a recurring giving program right so the idea of people signing up to write a check every month or check the box on the forum that's not now.
Can I just say we're, Becky and I are old enough though to remember the recurring giving one of the organizations we were at was like these donors credit cards were on file that they would charge money flip through you know, luckily evolved
It was a post it I'm gonna say it it was a post it that was hidden under someone's keyboard if
you're breaking the like, there's a better way Oh, my gosh.
We just have to laugh. Oh, I didn't cry. I had
I had the like, 30, 60, 90 day, 120 Day deeply lapsed like, oh, we haven't got your check yet. You know, kind of mailings. I can manually pull those. Yes. And gosh, I'm I say that, like it's past. I'm sure some people are listening right now. And they're like, I just changed the 60 day trial. We're trying to innovate. So I mean, recurring. Giving has been around forever. However, the subscription economy has changed first consumer behavior. And that's a whole thing. But you know, most people today don't even wonder about that. Because like, Well, yeah, I've got my Netflix subscription and my audible subscription and my Adobe Creative Cloud subscription and my QuickBooks subscription and my doorbell subscription. By the way, that's one of my favorites. Do you guys subscribe to your doorbell? I
don't know what this means. But
if ever I'm in a big enough room, there's always like, oh, Julie.
Was that it? Was that cataclysmic? Okay, you have
a doorbell. Say watch doorbell Do you subscribe to if you're willing to share? Ring doorbell? So video? doorbells. Right, yeah, Video Doorbell options. They have all sorts of features. Becky, did you know that if you wanted like recordings and like aI enabled whether it was a cat on the front door, or an Amazon package being dropped off? These doorbell Video Doorbell companies have subscription services ring is one of them. We subscribe to Arlo, I used to make this joke by the way before we had one. And then my wife was like, you travel and I don't like answering the door when you're not home. I was like, oh, seizure, Video Doorbell. But for a mere 10 to $14 a month, you can subscribe to your doorbell. If you would have told me, you know, 10 years ago, Dave, there's going to be a world in which you subscribe to The doorbell company. Every month, I would have been like, Ah,
I thought you were being metaphorical knows I do have a ring. And it's just in Nothing surprises me anymore. That I mean, nothing. That's amazing.
I love it. So anyways, so we've got this subscription economy that has transformed consumer behavior. But what it's bled over into is donor behavior. And so you, you know, you look at the stats, I think it was 48% of millennials and Gen Z's said that they would rather give to a nonprofit monthly than a single one time donation. And then for those of you that are in fundraising, and you're in, you're saying, well, but really Baby Boomers and Gen X are the primary giving generations right now, good news, more than 50% of Boomers and Gen X are already participating in monthly giving. So this is not a new phenomenon. But what's happened with the subscription economy is it's made an entire category of nonprofits able to actually tap into what's been happening with monthly giving. And just briefly, you've got the traditional what I would call a one to one model of monthly giving, which is like a sponsorship or, you know, you're supporting a staff person, basically, the donor is connected to the recipient or the beneficiary in a, in a one to one or a one to few kind of way like I give every month and you know, compassionate international helps a kid in a community kind of a deal. The second kind of model is what's known as membership, and that's been around for many, many, many decades. And that's I give and I receive some sort of benefits. So your local zoo, museums, lot of different organizations, public television, Public Radio, right, I give, but I also am receiving there's like this reciprocal benefit. Sometimes it's good. Sometimes it's services. Sometimes it's content. The problem is that 75% of all nonprofits can't do one to one. They don't have the program model where you can sponsor 1000 or 10,000. Whatever's nor do they provide benefits to their donors. They can't do membership. So the donors, the beneficiary is just not an option because they're not providing something they're the beneficiary is not the donor. So this third category, which I call benevolence, is basically not membership, not sponsorship, it's everybody else. And historically, but everybody else, social services organizations, environmental organizations, a lot of organizations have basically been left out of the subscription, out of monthly giving, because they don't have those things. The subscription economy has changed that it has made it so that your social services organizations, these different nonprofits can actually tap into monthly giving, and donors are responding. So that's the thing. Okay, hundreds of years, even 1000s of years of history, the last five to 10 years right now is the moment where this 75% really of nonprofits can actually tap into this.
Yeah. Wow. I mean, and hey, guys, y'all can subscribe to the we're for good podcast, too. I mean, the idea of like the wrist recurring piece, Dave is or subscriber, you're a good fit, I
am a good friend,
you are good friends.
Monthly Giving Club. It's amazing that.
I mean, we believe in the in what it can do, what it unlocks and the community that can be part of that too. So just love the way you walk through that. And so you got to subscribe to like all things, Dave. So he can like sync up with that. So we'll make sure before the end to get people connected. We always carve out time on the podcast to talk about a story. And I wonder if you would take us back to a moment when philanthropy maybe you're witness to it or you happen to you personally. But take us back to a moment of philanthropy that's really stuck with you.
In all the years that I've been doing this, I'm going to take you back one week. And I mentioned it earlier, but I want to accent it is the is the Dan PELADA, documentary uncharitable. And actually something that he did not say in the documentary, but he said on this podcast, so I highly encourage your listeners to go back to the podcast with Damn, thanks, Dave. But he said this, and in it as I was watching the film, I thought this is going to change the way I think about philanthropy. And I've been doing this for a while. He said, Dan PELADA said that philanthropy is the market for love. And I was like, at first as a life time market or business you guys like that's a little cringy? Like what you know, oh, are you like giki? Like, are you saying that toxic positivity? Yeah. We're gonna mark it, we're selling love. But then I got to thinking about it, especially as I was watching that documentary, I thought, That's literally what I do. That's what we do in this sector is we are connecting people, we're creating community Impact Uprising. We are essentially marketing love, like that is the good or service that we're providing to donors, to volunteers to people who engage with our causes. And that is not a thought that has ever crossed my mind. I have. I've been guilty, as I'm sure many of the fundraisers listening to this podcast of thinking, well, it's just too bad that charity has to kind of like, dig for the table scraps, you know, of capitalism, you know, it's like, Wow, so nice that all these donors are willing to give up their excess, you know, to provide donors and I felt like Man, if we could only leverage, you know, the capitalism and what's happening in business and other sectors, like, but you know, we're just charity. Right? And so when Dan said that on your show that philanthropy is the market for love, I thought that is a breakthrough insight that will drive the way I even think about marketing and fundraising and working with causes because ultimately, that's what we bring to the table. We we're not bringing the you know, the Netflix entertainment, or the ring doorbell, you know, video surveillance, product or service, what we're bringing is Love is community try to compete with that doorbell, you know,
no kidding. It's, I want to see the empathy that ring could bring on in that vein, I, I think that was really humbling and centering in a lot of, in a lot of ways, Dave and I thank you for bringing us back to that because I do think that people can just kind of brush what we do under the rug, you know, as Oh, it's service and oh, it's love and um, you know, and these these, we've been called toxic, you know, positivity you know, in the past, and I actually think it's like a banner. Like, I love it when it happens because I think the world needs more of that. And that's the stuff that lifts us on these hard days. And in times such as these. We got to look for joy. We got to look for love. Because the world is starved for it. I know I'm starved for it. In the way that I'm walking through the world right now, so let's be light to each other. So put a bow on this Dave, like, you know, we end with a one good thing. I can't wait to hear what you're one good thing is you're going to leave for the community today. Oh, man.
So I would say, it's, it's to recognize that we have a role in the world, and that we need each other. So full circle moment, you know, with with Working Genius with any of these models. I think one of the greatest things that comes out of it, is this recognition, certainly of who I am, you know, the way I always say it is, we're all on this journey of understanding who we were made to be, to be not to do right. So who have you made me to be? What are my strengths, my weaknesses, you know, the those things in which I'm wired for. But we're not just beings, we've also been placed in a context. So who have you made me to be? What context Am I in IE, what time in history was I born? What place in the world I was born to a family. I've had lived experiences, by the way, the good ones and the bad ones that have shaped who I am and the connections that I have, and how I show up in the world. And, and in the intersection of, who am I made to be? And that context of where I've been placed? That's where I think we look for faithfulness. And what does it look like to do? What do we do in light of that intersection?
Holy heck, they really, thank you. I mean, everything that you've said today, I just feel like not only just like, connects at a deeper level, but gives so much hope and uplift and reminder of why we're here. And I think that's what you do in the world. So people listening today, if you don't know Dave, like, point us to the ways they can connect with you, a Mago all the ways you show up in the world
and purpose and profit podcast.
We can put some links in the show notes. But so I would say just you know, LinkedIn is a good place. Because I'll I'll post about the podcast and the wave report and stuff like that. So LinkedIn, they really are a l e, y. And then in Mago, consulting is just a Mago. I am a G O dot consulting. And yes, that is a domain.
I've been going over that. Notice that that's cool.
I love that. That's so cool. And so disruptive. And that's what we love about you, Mr. Curious. I mean, you have really helped us feel seen, held and held up to our highest greatest potential. And that's like, that's what we want for each of you out there is to be able to chase the thing that lights you up. And so if you're really curious about Working Genius, if you're really curious about subscription models, Dave Raley, as your guide, lots of reasons to go over and check out Dave, my friend, thank you for coming in to this house being so generous and kind. It is always a joy to be in your world. Happy to do it.
This has been fun.
Thanks, my friend.
Take care y'all.
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